Mythbusters -- Hindenburg (OAD 1/10)

[Royster]

Now, that's what I'm talking about! Classic stuff. Let's take a little exploding hydrogen and thermite dope and see how fast it burns.

I can't even remember what nonsense the build team was doing. Something about crocodiles. And meat legs. In fishnet stockings.

[pdhenry]

Mmmmm... Meat legs!

[Lee L]

I like thse types of myths. To me the best episode ever was Alcatraz Escape. That is the crowning glory of their acheivements and makes up for all the bad shows they could ever put out IMO.

[Tangent]

Loved this one, just wish they would have done a Hindenburg filled with Hydrogen and a non-doped skin to the comparison.

If Adam Savage ever happens to read this board: "Dude-oronomy"? Really? http://smilies.vidahost.com/ups/dvx_rune/lol.gif

[LoadStar]

Ok, the Hindenburg experiment was great.

The only thing I remember about the other myth was Kari in that T-shirt. Hmm. Was there a myth they were testing, or was that it?

[Church AV Guy]

Were the Germans TRYING to cover the Hindenburg with something conductive intentionally so no spark would penetrate the hull and get to the hydrogen? In theory it sounds like a good idea, but it does underscore the fact that helium is MUCH safer. A lot harder to get, but much safer.

[jstack]

From my physics book:

The Hindenburg

When the zeppelin Hindenburg was preparing to land on May 6th, 1937, the han-
dling ropes were let down to the ground crew. Exposed to the rain, the ropes be-
came wet (and thus were able to conduct a current). In this condition, the ropes
“grounded” the metal framework of the zeppelin to which they were attached; that
is, the wet ropes formed a conducting path between the framework and the ground,
making the electric potential of the framework the same as the ground’s. This
should have also grounded the outer fabric of the zeppelin. The Hindenburg, how-
ever, was the first zeppelin to have its outer fabric painted with a sealant of large
electrical resistivity. The fabric remained at the electric potential of the atmosphere
at the zeppelin’s altitude of about 43 m. Due to the rainstorm, that potential was
large relative to the potential at ground level.


The handling of the ropes apparently ruptured one of the hydrogen cells and re-
leased hydrogen between that cell and the zeppelin’s outer fabric, causing the re-
ported rippling of the fabric.There was then a dangerous situation: the fabric was wet
with conducting rainwater and was at a potential much different from the framework
of the zeppelin. Apparently, charge flowed along the wet fabric and then sparked
through the released hydrogen to reach the metal framework of the zeppelin, igniting
the hydrogen in the process. The burning rapidly ignited the cells of hydrogen in the
zeppelin and brought the ship down. If the sealant on the outer fabric of the Hinden-
burg had been of less resistivity (like that of other zeppelins), the Hindenburg disaster
probably would not have occurred.

[Jon J]

I can't even remember what nonsense the build team was doing. Something about crocodiles. And meat legs. In fishnet stockings.Zig-zag is best when running to escape crocs or gators. ;)

They decided there's no real need to run if the croc/gator doesn't get you when they leap. If they miss seems they lose interest and decide to just wait until something else wanders close enough to jump at.

[Royster]

The only thing I remember about the other myth was Kari in that T-shirt. Hmm. Was there a myth they were testing, or was that it?

I thought it was a dream.

[YCantAngieRead]

So, what sparked the explosion in the first place? I don't remember, and I think jstack's post explains it but I'm not sure. :o

[LoadStar]

So, what sparked the explosion in the first place? I don't remember, and I think jstack's post explains it but I'm not sure. :o

In short - electrical discharge.

The blimp had gained a charge from the atmosphere; the rope completed the circuit. Zap.

[byte_me123]

I thought George C. Scott did it, accourding to the move by the same name.

[Mikkel_Knight]

In short - electrical discharge.

The blimp had gained a charge from the atmosphere; the rope completed the circuit. Zap.
I thought that the show "Seconds From Disaster" had a different cause figured out. The rope wasn't the "cause", but the "final straw". I'll have to go back and check it out...

[markz]

I thought George C. Scott did it, accourding to the move by the same name.


There was a movie called "Meat Legs"? I don't remember it.

[LoadStar]

I thought that the show "Seconds From Disaster" had a different cause figured out. The rope wasn't the "cause", but the "final straw". I'll have to go back and check it out...

It's possible, I was just going by what the wiki article said.

[RainyCity4]

I found it EXTREMELY cool that they went to St. Augustine Alligator Farm. I lived only a block away (a VERY long block...about a half mile away) from Alligator Farm for 20 years. I went there several times and always had fun and they underwent a major renovation about 5 years ago and I recognize that place very well.

Interesting fact about Alligator Farm is that it is actually located in residential neighborhood (right smack in middle of residential zone!) and there are actually houses behind that Alligator Farm...

Brent

[peacefield]

Loved this episode! Had to laugh at Tory running scared too.

RainyCity4, if this place was in a residential setting, did they ever have problems with alligator/crocodile escapees??

[loubob57]

I take issue with one aspect of the Hindenburg experiment. They released 'diffused' hydrogen inside the Zeppelin. Doesn't that mean it was mixed with air? The one big problem with the burning hydrogen theory is that hydrogen won't burn until it mixes with some oxygen. Indide the gas bags there is no oxygen. Something had to happen first to cause the hydrogen to leak, like - oh, I don't know, a spark igniting the flammable skin maybe. After that, sure the hydrogen's gonna burn.

[RainyCity4]

Loved this episode! Had to laugh at Tory running scared too.

RainyCity4, if this place was in a residential setting, did they ever have problems with alligator/crocodile escapees??

Not one has ever escaped from that place. :)

The place is extremely well-designed that the gators couldn't escape if they tried to.

Brent

[Idearat]

I take issue with one aspect of the Hindenburg experiment. They released 'diffused' hydrogen inside the Zeppelin. Doesn't that mean it was mixed with air? The one big problem with the burning hydrogen theory is that hydrogen won't burn until it mixes with some oxygen. Indide the gas bags there is no oxygen. Something had to happen first to cause the hydrogen to leak, like - oh, I don't know, a spark igniting the flammable skin maybe. After that, sure the hydrogen's gonna burn.

I don't think anyone ever suggest that the hydrogren spontaneously cumbusted. Curiously, the Mythbusters only adressed the external skin of the Hindenburg, not the hydrogen containing cells. Regardless, if there was a fire enought to melt/burn a hold in one of the cells you'd have hydrogen leaking out and mixing with air. Since helium is still hard to contain with more advanced materials like mylar, the hydrogen was most likely slowly leaking out all of the time. A small fire that make a real hole in a bladder would have greatly accelerated the process.

Unfortunately, their premise was flawed. While the skin of the Hindenburg was flammable, it would be foolish to assume that when the hydrogen was released into to a fire it didn't contribute to the fire.

Flammable dirigible dope: dangerous
Flammable hydrogen: dangerous

Flammable dirigible dope + flammable hydrogen: Boom

[loubob57]

I don't think anyone ever suggest that the hydrogren spontaneously cumbusted. Curiously, the Mythbusters only adressed the external skin of the Hindenburg, not the hydrogen containing cells. Regardless, if there was a fire enought to melt/burn a hold in one of the cells you'd have hydrogen leaking out and mixing with air. Since helium is still hard to contain with more advanced materials like mylar, the hydrogen was most likely slowly leaking out all of the time. A small fire that make a real hole in a bladder would have greatly accelerated the process.

Unfortunately, their premise was flawed. While the skin of the Hindenburg was flammable, it would be foolish to assume that when the hydrogen was released into to a fire it didn't contribute to the fire.

Flammable dirigible dope: dangerous
Flammable hydrogen: dangerous

Flammable dirigible dope + flammable hydrogen: Boom
I saw the guy they were talking about on an episode of Secrets fo the Dead (IIRC). He went to great depth about what the skin was doped with, even to the point of showing in the Graf Zeppelin company records where they suddenly changed the formulation (presumably because they knew it was dangerous). He even obtained a sample of material from the Hindenburg and was able to ignite it quite easily. There was also a good bit of discussion about how the outer skin is made up of many panels that should be elecrically connected. If a panel or group of panels was not connected well with the rest you could end up with a situation where the mooring ropes discharge most of them but leave one or more with a static charge relative to their neighbors. Then you get an arc across these flammable panels with a predictable result.

The bottom line is that there are some people who think that the hydrogen got directly ignited by static, but there had do be an intermidiate mechanism to get things going. So yes the hydrogen contributed to the fire, but only after it started.

[JYoung]

What was that LED message badge Adam was wearing?

[Idearat]

What was that LED message badge Adam was wearing?


If I remember right I think it said "Don't try this at home "

[Jonathan_S]

If I remember right I think it said "Don't try this at home "
That was the first time they showed it. It was shown again with "MEGADOPE!" as they were about to give some background info.

Also, while probably not a cause of the hindenburg fire it also had quite a bit of diesel fuel aboard for running the engines. Something else to consider when trying to figure out why it burned smokey and visibly.

[fergiej]

mmmmm, tank top...What else happened in this episode? ;)

[Tangent]

What was that LED message badge Adam was wearing?

It had different messages throughout the show, including "trust me". Get your own here for $30: http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/7c54/

[Warren]

no screen caps of her in this tank top?