TIVO Series 3 update from CES [Text View]

mishafp

01-09-2007, 08:21 AM

For whatever its worth (http://ces.betanews.com/entry/BetaNews_Thoughts_on_TiVo_at_CES/1168301757):

"Nate Mook: TiVo's Jim Denney also said the company was working hard to bring TiVoToGo and multi-room viewing to Series3 customers, although no timeframe has been established as of yet. Much to our dismay, Denney noted that only analog and over-the-air content will be supported by the features, as digital and HD broadcasts have certain copyright issues that TiVo has not resolved. The company said it is currently working on a software update for Series3, which is in limited alpha testing and will likely ship to customers in the Spring."

_________________________________
My thoughts
1. If TiVoToGo is only for analog, I will be fine with that. No reason for me to watch my HD programming on my laptop anyhow.

2. MRV is not an issue for me because I live in a small studio Apt.

3. Spring for update?! Crud! I do not care about of the fixes except the audio dropout/pixilation issue. I am sick of it messing with my thursday night NBC comedies :(.

Mike Farrington

01-09-2007, 08:28 AM

In the Spring? I hope that is in addition to the "Late 2006" update.

Bierboy

01-09-2007, 08:30 AM

In the Spring of 2008? :(

Amnesia

01-09-2007, 08:36 AM

If TiVoToGo is only for analog, I will be fine with that. No reason for me to watch my HD programming on my laptop anyhow.Non-HD is one thing. Non-digital is something else. Most of the channels I watch are digital. In fact, I don't think I watch any analog channels on my S3. So this "feature" will be useless for me...

TriBruin

01-09-2007, 08:46 AM

Non-HD is one thing. Non-digital is something else. Most of the channels I watch are digital. In fact, I don't think I watch any analog channels on my S3. So this "feature" will be useless for me...

I wonder how this will be affected by digital equivilent of analog channels? If something was recording on the analog channel, it will transfer, but not the digital channel?

SugarBowl

01-09-2007, 08:55 AM

Might it have something to do with transfer times?

hookbill

01-09-2007, 09:01 AM

I don't care about MRV since I don't have but one TiVo. TTG would be nice but doesn't help me if my main concern is disk space. What I want is eSATA!!!!

davecramer74

01-09-2007, 09:05 AM

Non-HD is one thing. Non-digital is something else. Most of the channels I watch are digital. In fact, I don't think I watch any analog channels on my S3. So this "feature" will be useless for me...

they probably mean non-hd. We dont even have analogue channels anymore where i live in vallejo as far as i know. My current reciever only has a digital tuners, no analogue (3416 motorola).

crowfan

01-09-2007, 09:17 AM

I wouldn't bet on that. He states it pretty clearly in that statement.

:( :down:

Arcady

01-09-2007, 09:22 AM

I'm currently only using my new S3 for OTA HD. I don't allow it to record analog channels. So this would be useless to me.

mazman

01-09-2007, 09:30 AM

I don't care about MRV since I don't have but one TiVo. TTG would be nice but doesn't help me if my main concern is disk space. What I want is eSATA!!!!
Agreed. I see that as the main reason to choose a Series 3 over the Comcast/Tivo. Without it, no S3 for me.

Timber

01-09-2007, 09:31 AM

Analog only? Useless to me too.

-=Tim=-

mishafp

01-09-2007, 09:38 AM

I'm currently only using my new S3 for OTA HD. I don't allow it to record analog channels. So this would be useless to me.

"Denney noted that only analog and over-the-air content will be supported by the features"

you should be fine, it seems.

bkdtv

01-09-2007, 09:43 AM

It's not analog only.

High-definition content from the broadcast networks is also supported. The FCC expressly prohibits such copy restrictions on both analog and digital content available over the airwaves.

Obviously, the implementation is a bit more complex when you are supporting this functionality on all digital broadcast networks (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS, etc) and not just analog channels. More than 75% of all Tivo'd content comes from the big four networks, so we're mostly covered.

jbowden

01-09-2007, 09:50 AM

I view analog ttg as a useless feature. Why bother providing this?

HiDefGator

01-09-2007, 09:53 AM

I don't care about MRV since I don't have but one TiVo. TTG would be nice but doesn't help me if my main concern is disk space. What I want is eSATA!!!!

Wouldn't it be easier to solve yyour problem with a larger internal hard drive? The 1 Terabyte drives will be shipping shortly. How much space do you need?

hookbill

01-09-2007, 10:03 AM

Wouldn't it be easier to solve yyour problem with a larger internal hard drive? The 1 Terabyte drives will be shipping shortly. How much space do you need?

I have paid for a 3 year warranty. I cannot open the box or I will violate the warranty. I have an eSATA just sitting there waiting to be used.

aaronwt

01-09-2007, 10:13 AM

I paid for a 4 year warranty for two of my S3 boxes, but I opened them up anyway. If I had it over again I would have just bought all my S3s from Dell when I got my third S3 for $510, but I had already puchased the first two from BB with a 4 year warranty. If I have a problem with either S3 I will just reinstall the original hard drive before returning it for warranty repair/replacement.

segaily

01-09-2007, 10:25 AM

For getting shows off of the series 3 it is fairly useless. However my wife would love to be able to send shows to our series 3 from our series 2 in the bedroom so that part will be nice.

chrishicks

01-09-2007, 10:32 AM

However my wife would love to be able to send shows to our series 3 from our series 2 in the bedroom so that part will be nice.

this is exactly what we want here too.

ashu

01-09-2007, 11:35 AM

Thanks for the updates. unsurprising and entirely expected :)

Hurry it up, then, TiVo-volk!

drosoph

01-09-2007, 11:50 AM

this is exactly what we want here too.Same here ... 5 tivo's in the house ... Mostly Series 2's ... it would be GREAT to never have to change the stereo input and just transfer shows to the S3 when we wanted to watch them! That's my main concern and need at the moment, its also preventing me from getting another S3, as I have to have a S2 unit downstairs to transfer shows to the main TV from the bedroom TiVos ... when I could have Two S3's downstairs instead! (one for me, one for the wife and kids) hehe

moyekj

01-09-2007, 11:53 AM

Much to our dismay, Denney noted that only analog and over-the-air content will be supported by the features, as digital and HD broadcasts have certain copyright issues that TiVo has not resolved. I've read this several times and it doesn't make much sense. Over-the-air content includes SD & HD digital broadcasts. I would like to interpret as any analog and OTA broadcasts (including analog & digital OTA) which are unencrypted will be supported. I would further infer that any encrypted digital content, including content with 5C=0 (copy freely) would not be supported. I would assume it also applies to OTA re-broadcasts over cable, not just sources from the antenna input. Seems like Tivo would not need CableLabs approval for unencrypted content which is maybe why that's what they are targeting first. While that's not the best compromise I could definitely live with that as an initial release with the hope that somewhere down the road at least the encrypted digital content with 5C=0 would also be permitted. That would equal firewire extraction capabilities that Motorola-based cable DVRs already permit (albeit unofficially).

dt_dc

01-09-2007, 11:59 AM

I've read this several times and it doesn't make much sense.Seriously ... don't try to read too much detailed information into a paraphrasing from a quick / initial blog post. Wait a bit for multiple sources before trying to dissect the information that much ...

tomryan

01-09-2007, 12:07 PM

Seriously ... don't try to read too much detailed information into a paraphrasing from a quick / initial blog post. Wait a bit for multiple sources before trying to dissect the information that much ...

here's hoping.. one of the only reasons why I bought two s3's (and originally planning a third) was for mrv between the three..

If this doesn't happen, I will unfortuantely be pressed to reconsider my investment in tivo :(

moyekj

01-09-2007, 12:23 PM

Seriously ... don't try to read too much detailed information into a paraphrasing from a quick / initial blog post. Wait a bit for multiple sources before trying to dissect the information that much ... Yes you are right. There is so much ambiguity with that little phrase it can be interpreted in many different ways, so really doesn't mean much as it stands.

CTLesq

01-09-2007, 12:35 PM

here's hoping.. one of the only reasons why I bought two s3's (and originally planning a third) was for mrv between the three..

If this doesn't happen, I will unfortuantely be pressed to reconsider my investment in tivo :(

I would be delighted to take advantage of your misfortune and take one of those S3's off of your hands for pennies on the dollar. No reason you should be miserable and I should have to pay full retail. :p

MichaelK

01-09-2007, 12:46 PM

I'm fairly certain (and dt-dc can help confirm please)- that cablelabs cant stop movement of broadcast OTA (which would be analog NTSc or any flavor of ATSC digital) or any unprotected cable content (eg analog OR DIGITAL channels that are not flagged as restricted- which would vary widely from system to system). (macrovision flags aside)

Now it may be that tivo doesn't want to get into the programming problem of separating out protected vs unprotected content on digital cable at the current time. But there's nothign to stop them in their cable labs agreements from moving unprotected digital channel content either.

My system for example flags every single digital channel beside the retransmitted OTA stuff and the music channels. There's no need for me to argue with them about it yet. But if the day did come when tivo was moving unprotected digital content I'd start in with them why are they flagging everything- Since all the cable company's aren't doign it I cant imagine the contracts my compnay has with the channels requires it.

SCSIRAID

01-09-2007, 12:53 PM

I don't care about MRV since I don't have but one TiVo. TTG would be nice but doesn't help me if my main concern is disk space. What I want is eSATA!!!!

eSATA is in the same boat as the other functions unfortunately. eSATA/TTG/MRV issues all revolve around DRM protection of content. I guess they could only record analog/OTA/unencrypted on eSATA to get around it but that seems kludgy... Sux...

hookbill

01-09-2007, 01:17 PM

eSATA is in the same boat as the other functions unfortunately. eSATA/TTG/MRV issues all revolve around DRM protection of content. I guess they could only record analog/OTA/unencrypted on eSATA to get around it but that seems kludgy... Sux...

Well, if that's the case then I guess I'll have no choice but to put in a new hard drive eventually. That sucks.

cgould

01-09-2007, 01:17 PM

How about transfers TO the Tivo, then? HD or otherwise? (TTG/comeback) I can finally play home videos on the TV w/o hooking up component cables...

MichaelK

01-09-2007, 01:28 PM

incoming should not be restricted at all by cable labs. (but again it depends on how TiVo decides to implement a partial solution- I doubt they would draw the line at incoming though so likely not a problem)

All the recent press releases for tivocast say series3 so presumably they are putting the bits in there to get content onto the box through the ethernet port....

SCSIRAID

01-09-2007, 01:29 PM

Well, if that's the case then I guess I'll have no choice but to put in a new hard drive eventually. That sucks.

Yup... Replacing the drive is really easy but I understand your situation.

ncbagwell

01-09-2007, 02:18 PM

I'm with the others on the thread who at least want to be able to transfer shows from my Series 2's to the Series 3. TivoToGoBack would be nice as well (Computer to S3).

Greeble

01-09-2007, 02:22 PM

This is truely sad news indeed. God is this Drm crap a pain. I just hope they aren't waiting on this crippled Tivo2go and mrv to release the update. (I want recently deleted folder, kidzone, guide speed and fast forward fixed)

As a FiOS TV customer almost all of my channels are digital so these featuers are worthless.

Chew

01-09-2007, 03:22 PM

How about transfers TO the Tivo, then? HD or otherwise? (TTG/comeback) I can finally play home videos on the TV w/o hooking up component cables...

I'm far more interested in that myself.

Bierboy

01-09-2007, 03:22 PM

Yup... Replacing the drive is really easy but I understand your situation.
That's what I ended up doing. I figured we'd be waiting quite awhile for eSATA enabling, and I really don't have the room where my HT gear is located for any more stuff.

SCSIRAID

01-09-2007, 05:38 PM

That's what I ended up doing. I figured we'd be waiting quite awhile for eSATA enabling, and I really don't have the room where my HT gear is located for any more stuff.

Me too... 500G - Bumwine

enthalpy

01-09-2007, 06:35 PM

Analog only for TTG is fine with me. Let's get incremental improvements in the features, rather than waiting and getting nothing.

jbowden

01-09-2007, 06:44 PM

Sounds like the Tivo-Comcast thing is the big CES Tivo news and we S3 types will have to wait and see what the next release brings us in the spring? I do not believe that 8.1 will be released in "two weeks" (Tivo time).

My views:
Analog TTG - Don't care
E-Sata - Would use
Multi Room Viewing - Maybe
S3 Bugs - ASAP!

rodalpho

01-09-2007, 06:44 PM

only analog and over-the-air content will be supported by the features, as digital and HD broadcasts have certain copyright issues that TiVo has not resolved.
This sucks. I'm sure some people bought series 3's and don't use cablecards, but they've got to be a tiny, tiny minority. They should allow MRV and TTG for all programming flagged copy freely. That's what the flags are FOR!! Only copy once and copy never should be restricted. This is totally legal and above board according to the content providers' own guidelines!

MichaelK

01-09-2007, 06:58 PM

George Cifranci

01-09-2007, 08:08 PM

Jerry_K

01-09-2007, 08:29 PM

My lovely wife pointed out very succinctly that the lack of MRV meant we have to record everything on both the HD Series 3 TiVos and on the DirecTiVos so that she can watch one TV while I watch the other.

The single most important thing to me is MRV, never have and never would use TTG, eSata is easily duplicated with a length of cable and an external housing.

I guess I will have to implement long HDMI cables to watch HD on two TVs from either TiVo. At least I can do that easily. Just a bunch of IR extenders too.

mattack

01-09-2007, 09:59 PM

I view analog ttg as a useless feature. Why bother providing this?

Because, unless you're the CEO or board of Tivo, you're not the final arbiter of features.

Also, as was described in previous posts, from the quote, it's not only analog -- it's only OTA.. OTA analog or OTA digital/HD, based upon the quote.

GoHokies!

01-10-2007, 06:50 AM

Because, unless you're the CEO or board of Tivo, you're not the final arbiter of features.

Also, as was described in previous posts, from the quote, it's not only analog -- it's only OTA.. OTA analog or OTA digital/HD, based upon the quote.

It really has to be, with analog OTA going away in a short time. I don't think that Tivo would take the time to code up a feature that is going to be made obsolete when analog OTA ceases to exist.

Does anyone have a feel for what percentage of us cable card users get digital simulcast? I do (so I may be overstating its use), and would hate to have to try and call comcast to get it turned off so that I actually get analog on my 2-99 cable channels and and TTG/MRV them.

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 09:00 AM

...

Does anyone have a feel for what percentage of us cable card users get digital simulcast? I do (so I may be overstating its use), and would hate to have to try and call comcast to get it turned off so that I actually get analog on my 2-99 cable channels and and TTG/MRV them.

you may want to get ready to call comcast either way. The digital simlucast potentially have all sorts of CCI restrictions on them that will potentially block MRV, TTG, etc etc. I know for example that my provider has EVERY digital cable channel flagged (all copy once- so I'd be able to MRV or TTG once and then neither the original or the copy could be copied again) . Tune to your digital cable channels and check out the CCI values the cablecard is returning - anything but 0x00 means the content has some sort of restrictions- so even assuming tivo and cablelabs make nice and we get MRV for digital cable you might not be able to use it.

hookbill

01-10-2007, 09:11 AM

you may want to get ready to call comcast either way. The digital simlucast potentially have all sorts of CCI restrictions on them that will potentially block MRV, TTG, etc etc. I know for example that my provider has EVERY digital cable channel flagged (all copy once- so I'd be able to MRV or TTG once and then neither the original or the copy could be copied again) . Tune to your digital cable channels and check out the CCI values the cablecard is returning - anything but 0x00 means the content has some sort of restrictions- so even assuming tivo and cablelabs make nice and we get MRV for digital cable you might not be able to use it.

In my area most of the channels that I watch on cable are analog. Matter of fact if it wasn't for HBO and HD I probably wouldn't need cable cards. And before anyone says it, no I can't do HD OTA. :)

Now having said that the only channels that I see with the 0x01 flag are channels like INHD and possibly HDnet. Everything else is copy freely. And although I know there is going to be a big change in the channel lineup come June I still think the majority of the most watched cable channels will remain analog. There are too many people out there hooked up to cable without a box for my cable company to force them to use digital. And the law that says all stations must broadcast digitally does not affect cable companies.

I really don't know who these cable companies are that are going to all digital broadcast but I don't think mine will be one of them. I will say however that it appears at some day they will carry dual channel broadcast. Already they do that with most of the locals.

dugbug

01-10-2007, 09:28 AM

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 09:29 AM

In my area most of the channels that I watch on cable are analog. Matter of fact if it wasn't for HBO and HD I probably wouldn't need cable cards. And before anyone says it, no I can't do HD OTA. :)

Now having said that the only channels that I see with the 0x01 flag are channels like INHD and possibly HDnet. Everything else is copy freely. And although I know there is going to be a big change in the channel lineup come June I still think the majority of the most watched cable channels will remain analog. There are too many people out there hooked up to cable without a box for my cable company to force them to use digital. And the law that says all stations must broadcast digitally does not affect cable companies.

I really don't know who these cable companies are that are going to all digital broadcast but I don't think mine will be one of them. I will say however that it appears at some day they will carry dual channel broadcast. Already they do that with most of the locals.

the problem is SOME companies (comcast as a whole seems to be)- ARE going to digital simulcast of all their analog channels. It allows them to hand out cheaper digital only boxes to new subs and helps move people to digital. Many of those companies will tell the cablecard to tune the digital version of those channels and so if the digital versions are flagged then the people on those systems will not be able to use MRV or TTG without restictions.

My provider is still a mix, and I think many (maybe most?) companies are. But the comcast subs for one really need to pay attention. I also recently read that cablevision will no longer hand out analog boxes- not sure if it was system wide - it was just a notic for Northest NJ area customers in a local paper.

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 09:32 AM

MRV is a major feature. If they had interoperability with the S2's I would have gotten an S3. I see they (tivo) extended the lifetime transfer offer for S3 until 1/31. Lets hope they announce MRV details before then!

-d

if they didn't announce at CES I wouldn't expect to hear anything later in the month. Spring seems likely....

FlippedBit

01-10-2007, 09:44 AM

Many of those companies will tell the cablecard to tune the digital version of those channels ...

Is there a way to tell if a cable card is programmed to use the digital simulcast other than checking if the recording quality is available on recording options for a show?

Back on topic, The TiVo CES announcements seem so undewhelming (as sombody else put it) yet the stock price had a little jump. I guess the Comcast announcement confirms some revenue for TiVo that everybody was expecting anyway.

GoHokies!

01-10-2007, 10:00 AM

Back on topic, The TiVo CES announcements seem so undewhelming (as sombody else put it) yet the stock price had a little jump. I guess the Comcast announcement confirms some revenue for TiVo that everybody was expecting anyway.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4749334&highlight=stock#post4749334

Is this so bloody hard to remember?

AFAIK, the recording quality is the only way.

TiVolunteer

01-10-2007, 10:07 AM

Is there a way to tell if a cable card is programmed to use the digital simulcast other than checking if the recording quality is available on recording options for a show?

Three ways I know of

a) Recording Quality available on recording options
b) Check the diagnostics page once you've tuned to the channel in question and see if it says RF tuning versus QAM. RF means it is analog.
c) Try to select the channel in the Signal strength option. If it is analog, it will not let you select that channel and it will show the closest digital station instead.

Roderigo

01-10-2007, 11:38 AM

all copy once- so I'd be able to MRV or TTG once and then neither the original or the copy could be copied again
Or worse than that... The recording on the S3 could be the "once" in copy once, and you couldn't MRV it at all.

jscozz

01-10-2007, 11:41 AM

Did I misread a press release or wasn't it announced that the new Motorola DVR boxes will have multiroom viewing over coax? If so, why are they providing it but Tivo isn't?

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 11:44 AM

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4749334&highlight=stock#post4749334

Is this so bloody hard to remember?

AFAIK, the recording quality is the only way.

you can also look in the diag screens if it to see if it's coming in as QAM (digital) or not. And if you can figure out the rf plan those same screens will tell you what the exact frequency the tuner is looking at- so if it's not the one assigned to the analog version you could tell (I'm sure there's a table somplace if some one is really into it). There are likely other clues on the diag screen but i dont remember off the top of my head.

hookbill

01-10-2007, 11:46 AM

Did I misread a press release or wasn't it announced that the new Motorola DVR boxes will have multiroom viewing over coax? If so, why are they providing it but Tivo isn't?

That DVR does not have a TiVo interface. It doesn't use cable cards, it uses the coaxial cable in your house for MRV.

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 11:47 AM

Or worse than that... The recording on the S3 could be the "once" in copy once, and you couldn't MRV it at all.

I'd need to double check the regs but i beleive that copy once is only allowed for "premium channels" and that basic type channels (like would be on the analog tier or Digital simulcast) have to at least be copy once. But try having that argument with your provider if they decide to call those "premium"....

jscozz

01-10-2007, 11:57 AM

That DVR does not have a TiVo interface. It doesn't use cable cards, it uses the coaxial cable in your house for MRV.

The release said that it could share content from a DVR in one room with a TV in another room via coax within the house. I just assumed that it was a digital unit, and not a captyure of analog signal only. Netgear also announced a device to suck in content from various devices and display on TV along with pausing in one room and resuming in another or broadcast to all rooms.

My point was only that my understanding from this forum is that Tivo has not enabled MRV on the S3 because of DRM issues... but other vendors seem to be doing it, seemingly from digital content, not just analog catured data.

hookbill

01-10-2007, 12:06 PM

FlippedBit

01-10-2007, 12:42 PM

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4749334&highlight=stock#post4749334

Is this so bloody hard to remember?

What I said could hardly be construed as pumping "the thing that shall not be mentioned". I clearly do not fall into the catagory of people for whom rule #13 was created. The rule is there so that moderators can get rid of pumpers who aren't contributors to the TCF. I remain comfortable with my post and do not feel that I need to edit it.

Disclusure: I do not own or intend to buy, sell, or otherwise invest in "the thing that shall not be mentioned". My mention of "the thing that shall not be mentioned" was not intended as a recommendation to buy, sell, or otherwise invest in "the thing that shall not be mentioned".

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 01:15 PM

The release said that it could share content from a DVR in one room with a TV in another room via coax within the house. I just assumed that it was a digital unit, and not a captyure of analog signal only. Netgear also announced a device to suck in content from various devices and display on TV along with pausing in one room and resuming in another or broadcast to all rooms.

My point was only that my understanding from this forum is that Tivo has not enabled MRV on the S3 because of DRM issues... but other vendors seem to be doing it, seemingly from digital content, not just analog catured data.

the S3 being a cablecard device has a different set of standards then propietary solutions like the moto boxes. For cablecard devices ONLY windows DRM and real Helix are approved. Tivogaurd or whatever it's called now (the tivo DRM) is not. They need to get it approved.

I'm not sure how it works with the tivo on moto boxes. Since it's apparently OCAP- it's a quasi open standard sort of thing- so I'm not sure if TiVo needs to get their DRM approved for it or not.

the issue is there are certain license agreements tivo must comply with for cablecard approval that propietary solutions like moto dont need to do.

larrs

02-03-2007, 01:57 PM

The release said that it could share content from a DVR in one room with a TV in another room via coax within the house. I just assumed that it was a digital unit, and not a captyure of analog signal only. Netgear also announced a device to suck in content from various devices and display on TV along with pausing in one room and resuming in another or broadcast to all rooms.

My point was only that my understanding from this forum is that Tivo has not enabled MRV on the S3 because of DRM issues... but other vendors seem to be doing it, seemingly from digital content, not just analog catured data.

It appears the issue is with Tivo's method of transfer. With the Motorolla and the Sccientific Atlanta solution, you are streaming from one unit to the other, the second unit only has a xx minute buffer. Also, it uses the coax already in the house to provide the data, cutting out the possibility that the data could be grabbed from you over the internet. With Tivo, you are copying the content from one to the other. That is most likely the issue.

Tivo could change to an encrypted stream of some sort, but that would not be available for some time and it might step on some patent issues with Replay TV who had streaming from one unit to the other.

MichaelK

02-05-2007, 10:43 AM

It appears the issue is with Tivo's method of transfer. With the Motorolla and the Sccientific Atlanta solution, you are streaming from one unit to the other, the second unit only has a xx minute buffer. Also, it uses the coax already in the house to provide the data, cutting out the possibility that the data could be grabbed from you over the internet. With Tivo, you are copying the content from one to the other. That is most likely the issue.

Tivo could change to an encrypted stream of some sort, but that would not be available for some time and it might step on some patent issues with Replay TV who had streaming from one unit to the other.

NONE of these other deivces are yet cablelabs approved for cablecard either- so we have no idea if anyone else will get permission to move content.

I think I have read that MS has permission to stream cablecard content from vista to their media center extenders but that's not a stretch since MS's windows DRM is one of only 2 cablelbas approved encryption methods (the other being real's helix). So untill we see a moto or SA (or anyone else) WITH A CABLECARD SLOT moving DIGITAL content (streamed or copied) I dont think we can make any assumptions at all.

The hangup is IF you get cablelabs approval as a cablecard host then you MUST abide by their digital output restrictions which CURRENTLY say only MS WDRM and Real Helix are allowed.

mlinehan

02-08-2007, 10:30 PM

hookbill

02-09-2007, 08:18 AM

It's been exactly one month now to the day since this interview took place.

I still don't have 8.1.

You know I don't really care anymore when it gets here. I don't care about kids zone. I got too much crap to watch anyway. I don't care about the delete folder. My S3 is working darn near perfect except for the minor sound bug while flipping through the guide. And although I would like to have more safety for my wireless network, I'm not that concerned either.

You know when I was a D-TiVo subscriber I use to see a thread where people were trying to make D* give them HMO. I was so happy with TiVo then I didn't even bother to find out what it was and then when I found out I could care less.

Now I'm not saying I don't want HMO, TTG, and eSATA but I can wait.

I'm tired of looking to see if "it's here" yet. I'll still look because I like to keep an eye on my temperature but I don't expect to see anything "pending" soon.

I'm just going to let it go, and it will happen when it happens.

FlippedBit

02-09-2007, 09:17 AM

I'm tired of looking to see if "it's here" yet.

Me too. Analogous to your D*/HMO story, I kept checking to see if 8.1 was here yet and kept noticing these SDV threads. I ignored them at first because I thought it was just people fretting over the finer points of some broadcast standard that would not have any effect on me. When I finally bothered to figure out what SDV was, I had to pick my jaw up off of the floor. Suddenly my pixelation and audio dropout problem didn't seem that bad. I could live with it given the chioce. Unfortunately, it looks like my S3 will probably not be a satisfactory solution for me once SDV is here. I now hope that the reason 8.1 is not here yet is because they are working full speed to port their software over to a Comcast box that will work with SDV, before SDV gets here.

MichaelK

02-09-2007, 11:23 AM

Has anyone taken a look at the ATI TV Wonder Digital Cable Tuner: ati(dot)amd(dot)com/products/tvwonderdigital/index.html (@#$@ won't let me post a proper url, lame!)

It's a cable card enabled, HD recording device, and it is cable labs certified. I've been told by a friend that it supports streaming recorded HD content across Ethernet to an XBOX360 for display. I'm hoping it means the the embargo on TTG and MRV is about to break... :D

that's been known for a while.

The issue is that the only 2 currently APROVED encryption methods for digital transfers from cablecard devices are windows media DRM (obviously built into these approved vista systems) and Real networks Helix.

Tivo needs to get their "tivoguard" (or whatever they are calling it today) system on the approved list plan and simple. There's an interview with a Tivo employee, Jim Denney, floating around here where he says they are currently working with cablelabs to get their system approved.

If you read the other threads I *THINK* that cablelabs has agreed to issue answers to approval requests within 6 months (it might be 3 or might be 9 months- I cant' recall, dt_dc knows if you search his posts). So assuming that tivo can make their system as secure as windows DRM and Helix, then it's just a matter of time till they get approved too and then the beta rolls and then we get the update. If tivo gets denied then they can apply to the FCC for arbitration- earlier the FCC approved "tivoguard" as an acceptable method to encrypt for the now overturned broadcast flag rules.

hookbill

02-09-2007, 11:26 AM

Tivo needs to get their "tivoguard" (or whatever they are calling it today) system on the approved list plan and simple. There's an interview with a Tivo employee, Jim Denney, floating around here where he says they are currently working with cablelabs to get their system approved.

Ummmm...yes...It's the first post on this thread.

Smeeked a little, didn't you? :)