First TiVo-Comcast Interface Screenshot [Text View]

rainwater

01-08-2007, 11:50 PM

Wow, this will be great.

Or it would be if the box doesn't suck. And they actually enable all the TiVo features. And the customer support on it either doesn't suck or the unit's so good it never needs support.

I.e., not holding my breath.

Well, it's not going to have networking features it doesn't seem (at least with the first version). But that shouldn't be a surprise since these boxes aren't hooked up to a local network anyways. But for anyone that has Comcast, this is a worthy upgrade to get the TiVo specific features like Wishlists and still have access to VOD.

davezatz

01-08-2007, 11:58 PM

At least there are no banner ads.

Not today.

ThreeSoFar

01-09-2007, 12:00 AM

Well, it's not going to have networking features it doesn't seem (at least with the first version). But that shouldn't be a surprise since these boxes aren't hooked up to a local network anyways. But for anyone that has Comcast, this is a worthy upgrade to get the TiVo specific features like Wishlists and still have access to VOD.
Sorry, I should have added these to my list of things I'm skeptical will even be offered in the Comcast+TiVo:

WishLists
Season Passes

OK, they'll probably have Season Passes, though it still wouldn't surprise me if they either have to (processor limitations) or choose to (generall cluelessness) partially disable or limit their capability.

And I have to qualify my first post: I won't see it (no plans on getting one), so I'll believe it when someone else sees/reports it.

ThreeSoFar

01-09-2007, 12:01 AM

And while I'm at it, I'll add this:

I am AMAZED it's gotten this far (a .jpg of the vaporware being offered).

I figured this whole thing would die on the vine.

dt_dc

01-09-2007, 12:15 AM

Some more pics:
http://ces.betanews.com/entry/BetaNews_Thoughts_on_TiVo_at_CES/1168301757

ThreeSoFar

01-09-2007, 12:23 AM

Some more pics:
http://ces.betanews.com/entry/BetaNews_Thoughts_on_TiVo_at_CES/1168301757
I see "Recording Schedule" as a menu item.

I don't see Season Pass anywhere yet.

ThreeSoFar

01-09-2007, 12:25 AM

Wow. Just wow.

Given the photos they've shown, "TiVo" shows up in name only--literally. I don't see anything I'd consider calling a "TiVo feature".

ckelly5

01-09-2007, 12:34 AM

hmm, yeah, no wishlists or season passes would be very untivo - The current Moto DVRs have "season passes", this must.

I will say the OnDemand interface is about a billion times better than the current one, that's for sure.

Also looks like it'll use the existing comcast remote. No peanut for me :/

samo

01-09-2007, 12:59 AM

And while I'm at it, I'll add this:

I am AMAZED it's gotten this far (a .jpg of the vaporware being offered).

I figured this whole thing would die on the vine.
Your posts sound like you want ComcastTiVo to fail. Why? Don't you think that without solid Cable client base to replace DirecTV contract TiVo will go belly up? S3 is just a stop gap measure. The real money and subscription growth is in CableTiVo.

bubba451

01-09-2007, 02:32 AM

Sorry, I should have added these to my list of things I'm skeptical will even be offered in the Comcast+TiVo:

WishLists
Season Passes

From the press release:
http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_124.html

Comcast customers who choose the TiVo service will enjoy TiVo's Emmy Award-winning user interface and premium DVR features, smart search and discovery features including WishList® searches and TiVo Suggestions, plus improved scheduling and recording management through such features as Season Pass™ recordings. Comcast's unique service features, like the broadest selection of HD programming and more than 8,000 ON DEMAND programs each month will be fully integrated with the TiVo service, making it easy for customers to find great programming on traditional television channels and ON DEMAND.

SnakeEyes

01-09-2007, 02:32 AM

Call me an optimist, call me crazy, but I'm going to guess you will find Season Pass and Wishlist under Find Programs and More Options, which we don't have screen shots of yet.

jimmymac

01-09-2007, 04:04 AM

As soon as I can get one, I'm going to try it as long as it records HD. I currently use Comcast's box to record HD and Tivo to record everything else.

Bierboy

01-09-2007, 07:23 AM

Man, that's one UGLY box. :down: :down: :down:

nhaigh

01-09-2007, 08:23 AM

Finally we can get PIP on TiVo!

Do you think we will be able to turn it off? I hate seeing the end of something I'm about to start watching.

Stormspace

01-09-2007, 08:38 AM

Quite a few people said it would come with a Tivo remote, but given those geometric shaped icons on the screen it looks like it's going to be a moto remote.

W Auggie H

01-09-2007, 08:41 AM

Call me an optimist, call me crazy, but I'm going to guess you will find Season Pass and Wishlist under Find Programs and More Options, which we don't have screen shots of yet.

I agree. I am ready to sign up today to give it a spin. We need this relationship to work if we want TiVo to survive. You have to know that it will not be as good as a totally standalone TiVo but if you know that going in you should be fine. I will be very happy to see a intermediate step between crappy non-TiVo DVR and a full blown TiVo!. The more people that use some sort of TiVo software the better.

bicker

01-09-2007, 08:51 AM

Ugh. They put the livetv buffer in the menus. This is something I've been waiting for TiVo to start providing on their own boxes. Hopefully, this means that we'll start seeing this feature on our S2s soon.

bicker

01-09-2007, 08:53 AM

Call me an optimist, call me crazy, but I'm going to guess you will find Season Pass and Wishlist under Find Programs and More OptionsEspecially since that's where they are on our TiVo boxes. :rolleyes:

rainwater

01-09-2007, 09:01 AM

This is something I've been waiting for TiVo to start providing on their own boxes. Hopefully, this means that we'll start seeing this feature on our S2s soon.

I thought the same thing until I got Moxi which does this. Then you start seeing the ends of shows you plan on watching later and the excitement of getting this feature comes to a halt.

Stormspace

01-09-2007, 09:06 AM

I ALWAYS hit the TiVo button and wait 5 secs before turning on the TV.

rainwater

01-09-2007, 09:17 AM

I ALWAYS hit the TiVo button and wait 5 secs before turning on the TV.

Not with Comcast TiVo! :) The spoilers are always on your screen. I've never understand cable companies desire for this feature. I think it was nice when you had a cable box with no DVR. But with a DVR this is a horrible feature.

trausch

01-09-2007, 09:25 AM

Problem is existing Comcast hardware has small hard drives.

ThreeSoFar

01-09-2007, 09:26 AM

Then call me a pessimist.

It's not that I want the Comcast+TiVo to fail. But given both companies' track record, I expect it to.

rainwater

01-09-2007, 09:29 AM

Then call me a pessimist.

It's not that I want the Comcast+TiVo to fail. But given both companies' track record, I expect it to.

Why do you say that? There are a lot of people that are dying to pay to get rid of the crappy Comcast software. Any software improvement over that is going to work.

davezatz

01-09-2007, 09:32 AM

At least there are no banner ads.

Actually...
http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Guide-1.jpg

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Guide-1.jpg

No surprise - Comcast made stated TiVo appealed to them as an advertising platform. Though this Guide doesn't look very TiVo-like. I'm heading over at 9AM and will see what I can discover, though Mega got the 6 hour demo and will know more (even after I'm done). Hopefully he'll check in and brief everyone.

ZeoTiVo

01-09-2007, 09:32 AM

Then call me a pessimist.

It's not that I want the Comcast+TiVo to fail. But given both companies' track record, I expect it to.
well maybe you should start with facts instead of posting the things you think will not be there which are mainly turning out to just be pessemistic and wrong.

and this is more than a .jpg of vaporware. We know the TiVo on comcast has been deployed in testing and that real people are using it. That is betaware not vaporware.

Do you have any real info on the hardware limitations?

Stormspace

01-09-2007, 09:34 AM

Not with Comcast TiVo! :) The spoilers are always on your screen. I've never understand cable companies desire for this feature. I think it was nice when you had a cable box with no DVR. But with a DVR this is a horrible feature.

I could see it as a feature in the guide, but to have it on the main screen would take some getting used to. Probably the reason it's there is because the old one had it. If they removed it users would complain since they are already used to it.

stark

01-09-2007, 09:36 AM

I have permission from zonereyrie to post the link to his CES photos on his TivoLover's website.

http://www.tivolovers.com/Photos/CES2007/

dbtom

01-09-2007, 09:37 AM

It's really interesting in that the interface hardly looks like a TiVo. It looks like Comcast is really only using the TiVo function for finding programs and managing season passes. It makes me wonder why they couldn't just implement some similar scheduling program without TiVo. There are many other season pass-like systems that work well, so it can't be too hard.

dt_dc

01-09-2007, 09:40 AM

Quite a few people said it would come with a Tivo remote, but given those geometric shaped icons on the screen it looks like it's going to be a moto remote.Check out the following:
http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Remote-1.jpg

rainwater

01-09-2007, 09:42 AM

S3 users aren't going to appreciate the HD category the Comcast TiVo has :)

W Auggie H

01-09-2007, 09:44 AM

"We're going to be starting the initial market launch in the springtime," Jeff Klugman, senior vice president for TiVo's Service Provider division, said by telephone. - from Reuters.com

I wonder if it will be better to just wait for pre-loaded TiVo/Comcast boxes. I don't currently have a Comcast DVR but I do want to try out the new software when it comes available.

Shawn95GT

01-09-2007, 09:45 AM

Check out the following:
http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Remote-1.jpg
No GLO for you! I guess they had to keep someof the goodies on the S3.

I'm sure the remote alone will sell the box ;).

rainwater

01-09-2007, 09:46 AM

No GLO for you! I guess they had to keep someof the goodies on the S3.

But does the S3 remote have a On Demand button? :)

W Auggie H

01-09-2007, 09:49 AM

I have permission from zonereyrie to post the link to his CES photos on his TivoLover's website.

http://www.tivolovers.com/Photos/CES2007/

Can someone get permission to mirror his photos? I am getting some blocked access messages for some reason. Corp firewall is not playing nice I guess. Plus, it is slow.

Stormspace

01-09-2007, 09:54 AM

Check out the following:
http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Remote-1.jpg

That's a surprise and I'm glad it's happening. Looks like it won't be a software only change on the boxes, the users will get a new remote.

Stormspace

01-09-2007, 09:55 AM

Can someone get permission to mirror his photos? I am getting some blocked access messages for some reason. Corp firewall is not playing nice I guess. Plus, it is slow.

The links aren't working for me until I delete everything between .com and the slash after 8080. :)

BlackBetty

01-09-2007, 10:14 AM

http://images.betanews.com/albums/146/826.jpg

http://images.betanews.com/albums/146/827.jpg

http://images.betanews.com/albums/146/828.jpg

http://images.betanews.com/albums/146/829.jpg

kbmb

01-09-2007, 11:11 AM

One of the best things I see so far.......the 2 letters 'HD' under the Tivo guy!

Ahhh.....Tivo in HD without spending $800 bucks! I'll take it.

-k

chrishicks

01-09-2007, 11:21 AM

well this seals it for me. I just bought a DTS2/S3 both with Lifetime and was looking for 1 more Lifetimed S3. not anymore. I'm just going to wait for this. this plus the S3 will give me a nice 4 tuner HD setup. :)

Globular

01-09-2007, 11:25 AM

Damn!

Why, oh why, did I move to a Charter town from a Comcast town??!!

bkdtv

01-09-2007, 11:32 AM

[QUOTE=davezatz]Actually...
http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Guide-1.jpg

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Guide-1.jpg

No surprise - Comcast made stated TiVo appealed to them as an advertising platform. Though this Guide doesn't look very TiVo-like. I'm heading over at 9AM and will see what I can discover, though Mega got the 6 hour demo and will know more (even after I'm done). Hopefully he'll check in and brief everyone.The Tivo Series3 hardware is very similar to the Motorola hardware.

Is there any chance we'll get this PiP window in the grid guide on the Series3. If not, why? The version of the Tivo "grid guide" on the Motorola hardware is 200-400% faster than the "grid guide" on the Tivo Series3 hardware.

JohnBrowning

01-09-2007, 11:35 AM

I'm amazed at all the unreasonable gross assumptions made from viewing a few pictures from a tradeshow!!!

Globular

01-09-2007, 11:36 AM

Another thing... if I get people to sign up for this, can I get TiVo rewards points?

I realize there's no answer yet, just throwing it out there...

-Matt

bkdtv

01-09-2007, 11:39 AM

Some more shots of the PIP window on Motorola hardware:

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Recordings-1.jpg

http://www.tivolovers.com.nyud.net:8080/Photos/CES2007/Medium/TiVo-Comcast-Central-1.jpg

Stormspace

01-09-2007, 11:50 AM

Quite a few people said it would come with a Tivo remote, but given that picture, it looks like they were right.

:D

What's interesting is that those additional buttons are required for OCAP compliance.

When I used the cable STB I always hated those things. Placement was wrong and they were used in odd places and never for the same thing. It always smacked of being a kludge to me.

W Auggie H

01-09-2007, 01:31 PM

With permission from MegaZone I have modified all of his TiVoComcast CES pics to be a bit more web friendly and I have mirrored them on Flickr. Here is what I have:

Standard:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wahiggins3/sets/72157594469660371/

Detailed View:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wahiggins3/sets/72157594469660371/detail/

Slideshow:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wahiggins3/sets/72157594469660371/show/

dmdeane

01-09-2007, 01:41 PM

I'm amazed at all the unreasonable gross assumptions made from viewing a few pictures from a tradeshow!!!
Welcome to the Internet! :)

Stu_Bee

01-09-2007, 01:46 PM

So the PIP's on the Guide screen are ad's, and the PIP's elsewhere on static tivo menus are live buffer?
Sounds weird..but I'd rather have the ad's than live buffer. (I hate accidentally seeing soccer scores of a game i'm recording. The scores are always displayed on the screen). Hopefully there is no audio on the ad's (argh)

Test

01-09-2007, 02:02 PM

tem

01-09-2007, 02:18 PM

I like the segregated will/won't record to do list.

Justin Thyme

01-09-2007, 02:23 PM

There are many other season pass-like systems that work well, so it can't be too hard.It is a curious curious thing. How long have faxes been around? Why is it so ard to make a fax machine that folks don't hate? Why was it so hard to build VCRs that weren't always blinking 12:00?

When I used the cable STB I always hated those things. Placement was wrong and they were used in odd places and never for the same thing. It always smacked of being a kludge to me.
To me, it is amazing that humane interface details are so peripheral to the attention of project managers making these decisions.

The idea of modeless interfaces is so much more humane to people who really don't want any more cognitive load at the end of the day. But it is also a social interaction. Folks want the button to be their friend- they know who the button is, and that they aren't going to change on them depending on the day of the week.

When a device becomes modal, it becomes inhumane. Folks stop treating it like a friendly creature, and more like an opponent. Modes are easy for the technically inclined to fall into because of the comfort with rules dependent on sets to which the rules apply. Kind of like how people hate fax machines. Or VCRs.

The "what" of the machine is not crucial. Instead what is essential to establishing the friendliness of the brand is "how it does it". This is what folks will pay extra for- something to keep in mind when considering PIP, vod, guides, and the infinite other what's that most of these show reports are focusing on.

Stormspace

01-09-2007, 03:33 PM

It is a curious curious thing. How long have faxes been around? Why is it so ard to make a fax machine that folks don't hate? Why was it so hard to build VCRs that weren't always blinking 12:00?

To me, it is amazing that humane interface details are so peripheral to the attention of project managers making these decisions.

The idea of modeless interfaces is so much more humane to people who really don't want any more cognitive load at the end of the day. But it is also a social interaction. Folks want the button to be their friend- they know who the button is, and that they aren't going to change on them depending on the day of the week.

When a device becomes modal, it becomes inhumane. Folks stop treating it like a friendly creature, and more like an opponent. Modes are easy for the technically inclined to fall into because of the comfort with rules dependent on sets to which the rules apply. Kind of like how people hate fax machines. Or VCRs.

The "what" of the machine is not crucial. Instead what is essential to establishing the friendliness of the brand is "how it does it". This is what folks will pay extra for- something to keep in mind when considering PIP, vod, guides, and the infinite other what's that most of these show reports are focusing on.

For me it wasn't a problem understanding the usage of the button, or in using it. The issue I had was that the UI was designed to not use them 95% of the time, so for that other 5% I had to stop and think "ok, where is that button again?" instead of just pushing it and moving on. Even on my harmony remote I dislike having to scroll through a list of commands on the LCD for a particular device since it's not something I do often, but at least the buttons are labeled and behave the same each time. The OCAP buttons to me just aren't very friendly and could have been accomplished just as easily by remapping a number on the number pad for that screen. Press 1 for a list, 2 for day, etc.

moonscape

01-09-2007, 03:51 PM

MichaelK

01-09-2007, 04:11 PM

this looks great to me because i couldn't justify 1K (price of S3 plus lifetime transfer) and with the comcast box will be able to record films and nature programs in HD and other things like news shows and general tv stuff on the S2.

and by the time i can't stand not watching in HD there will be other options or the S3 will be significantly cheaper.

three thumbs up from me!

I'd probably go the comcast with Tivo route if that was my choice- but just to point out your math isn't clear to anyone trying to decide.

an S3 is only like 650 if you look around. And lifetime transfer is 199 so for 850 you get lifetime of service on the s3. We dont know what the comcast pricing will be for the tivo (do we?). I saw one post on another forum that the download and remote would be free but that there would be an additional monthly tivo fee ONTOP of the current Comcast dvr fee. So figure $5 a month to rent the moto DVR, $5 a month for current comcast DVR fee and a new $5 a month for tivo add-on and you are paying $15 a month per comcast tivo (all totally made up numbers).

Still a huge difference with like a 4.5 year payback but it's not $1,000 vs $0.

(and actually comcast will charge you for cablecard(s) and maybe additonal outlet fees on the s3- so it's that much mroe lopsided...)

minorthr

01-09-2007, 04:43 PM

This has been what I have been waiting for. I have to say I really do not like the guide. I've been a big fan of the tivo guide. However if all this thing does is actually record the programs I want and not have to baby sit it like the D* R15 and R20 or the Concast box we used to have with the iguide software I'm in.

davezatz

01-09-2007, 06:07 PM

[quote]Is there any chance we'll get this PiP window in the grid guide on the Series3.

Yes, it is a definite possibility down the road.

I have a ton of info (such as this) to share on various topics. Hopefully within the next 48 hours I'll get some of it online.

shady

01-09-2007, 06:38 PM

So the PIP's on the Guide screen are ad's, and the PIP's elsewhere on static tivo menus are live buffer?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the PIP is just showing ads that happened to be on the tuned in channel at the time.

bkdtv

01-09-2007, 06:53 PM

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the PIP is just showing ads that happened to be on the tuned in channel at the time.Correct, the feature is for PIP on the current channel, not ads.

AndrewFischer

01-09-2007, 07:12 PM

That's a surprise and I'm glad it's happening. Looks like it won't be a software only change on the boxes, the users will get a new remote.

That's good news. Both of the remotes that came with our Comcast/Motorola DVR are dead.

AndrewFischer

01-09-2007, 07:37 PM

We dont know what the comcast pricing will be for the tivo (do we?). I saw one post on another forum that the download and remote would be free but that there would be an additional monthly tivo fee ONTOP of the current Comcast dvr fee.

Comcast fees vary from market to market. Here in Atlanta we pay $15/month for the DVR bundled with a few HD cable channels. HD without the DVR is $10 but local broadcast HD is included with any cable service.

Every rumor I've read says the TiVo software will be some thing like an extra $5-$10 on top of that. A S3 with product lifetime would save us perhaps $20 a month 'cause we don't watch MTV-HD or Discovery HD :)

Still a very long time to payback $650+$199

We are going to give the Comcast solution a try.

I'm also considering getting an AppleTV, dumping Comcast and connecting the S1 TiVo to the roof antenna. It would save us a ton of money. The downside is that although AppleTV can play true HD content, Apple has compressed everything to 640x480.

nrc

01-09-2007, 07:41 PM

jfh3

01-09-2007, 10:02 PM

kmill14

01-09-2007, 10:15 PM

I am a current dtv-Tivo user, LOVE TiVo, and am looking for the best HD option that includes TiVo. I've been holding out for the comcast-TiVo for a while. Price-wise, it does not make sense to me to get the S3 and pay 12.99 for service compared to the comcast-TiVo.

Some cool, not cool, and other things I noticed already from the screen-shots:

1. an On-Demand button on the TiVo remote :up:
2. The TiVo screens and color schemes exist in all the search screens. :up:
3. TiVo w/ PiP :confused:
4. In the program search area, I noticed it flags a show as HD or On-Demand if that is an option. On a similar note, I am glad that there can be one place I have to go for searching up-coming shows or On-Demand, and not two different locations. :up: :up:
5. In the Recordings list, there is a catagory for all HD programs. Not sure if S3 has this, but I'm glad its there!
6. The To-Do list gives you the option right away to view what will or won't record, but also by a specific date! :up:

Overall, these pictures confirm for me that the comcast-TiVo will have all the features I really care about with TiVo, plus some enhancements that I do not currently have today.

I'm excited for sure! :D

SnakeEyes

01-09-2007, 10:50 PM

better ToDo list.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wahiggins3/351873379/in/set-72157594469660371/

jfh3

01-09-2007, 11:39 PM

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the new Search system that Tivo unveiled in November is in the Comcast interface (see the new alpha entry grid and the unified search)

Sure hope "real" Tivo users get to see it first.

nrc

01-09-2007, 11:56 PM

Season Pass option to "Get in HD, if possible". :up:
http://www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/01/img_0755.jpg
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/comcast-dvr-with-tivo-pics-features/

harley3k

01-10-2007, 02:02 AM

Well, it's not going to have networking features it doesn't seem (at least with the first version). But that shouldn't be a surprise since these boxes aren't hooked up to a local network anyways. But for anyone that has Comcast, this is a worthy upgrade to get the TiVo specific features like Wishlists and still have access to VOD.

The boxes do have USB ports, so they could make the USB WiFi adaptor from Tivo work with the network features. I remember the original comcast/tivo announcement saying they would bring the 'full feature set' from tivo to the comcast boxes. I bet they'll make you buy that Tivo adaptor so Tivo gets another $50 per box ;)

-h

harley3k

01-10-2007, 02:07 AM

I remember the original comcast/tivo announcement saying they would bring the 'full feature set' from tivo to the comcast boxes.

Tivo's press releases only go back to 2006 on their web site, but I found this entry on pvrblog indicating that the home-networking features were mentioned in the original announcement:

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2005/03/comcast_and_tiv.html

-h

harley3k

01-10-2007, 02:09 AM

Quite a few people said it would come with a Tivo remote, but given those geometric shaped icons on the screen it looks like it's going to be a moto remote.

I saw some screenshots today that showed a peanut remote. Perhaps it may be purchased from tivo.com giving them some more revenue ;)

-h

samo

01-10-2007, 03:20 AM

I just hope that if they ever put the PIP screen on Now Playing they provide the option of turning it off. What could be worse for a DVR than going into Now Playing to start watching a football game or movie that is still recording only to see the end of it in the PIP screen.
You are thinking in terms of single tuner. Don't forget that PIP show whatever channel and/or recording was on the full screen before you went into guide or now showing screen. For example, if you are watching buffer or game in progress, then PIP will show just what was on a full screen - not the life. If you don't want to take a chance of seeing end of the game - push any other channel on remote before you turn the TV on and PIP will be showing last tuned channel. This is how PIP works on Dish and DirecTV DVRs. No reason for ComcastTiVo to work differently.

dr_mal

01-10-2007, 12:21 PM

Season Pass option to "Get in HD, if possible". :up:
http://www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/01/img_0755.jpg
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/comcast-dvr-with-tivo-pics-features/
Maybe I'm just being dense here, but what would that option do?

If I'm setting up a Season Pass on an HD channel, the show will obviously be HD.

Does it implement some sort of hybrid wishlist/season pass where you can set up a Season Pass for "CSI: Miami" on A&E (which is SD) but it'll record HD episodes on your local CBS-HD affiliate?

:confused:

dswallow

01-10-2007, 12:29 PM

Maybe I'm just being dense here, but what would that option do?

If I'm setting up a Season Pass on an HD channel, the show will obviously be HD.

Does it implement some sort of hybrid wishlist/season pass where you can set up a Season Pass for "CSI: Miami" on A&E (which is SD) but it'll record HD episodes on your local CBS-HD affiliate?

:confused:
Maybe it's related to OnDemand channels. Or channels where there might be multiple airings but not all in HD (some low-tech broadcast stations can't record HD content, but can pass it through live from the network, so they might rerun something in SD that was broadcast earlier in HD).

ZeoTiVo

01-10-2007, 12:39 PM

Maybe it's related to OnDemand channels. Or channels where there might be multiple airings but not all in HD (some low-tech broadcast stations can't record HD content, but can pass it through live from the network, so they might rerun something in SD that was broadcast earlier in HD).
yep, and that ties into season pass functionality of using the priority of the season pass list. Say you have a conflict of CSI in HD and Eureka in HD. If Eureka is higher it will get that show but since you are not locked on HD then the scheduler might pick up a CSI in SD on at another time but perhaps they have some logic to look for availble reairings in HD over reairings in SD, that way you get both in HD but just have to wait for CSI a little longer.

mikey94025

01-10-2007, 01:35 PM

I just hope that if they ever put the PIP screen on Now Playing they provide the option of turning it off. What could be worse for a DVR than going into Now Playing to start watching a football game or movie that is still recording only to see the end of it in the PIP screen.

Another way to prevent this problem is to just press the Pause button and it will freeze the PIP. This is how the current Comcast DVR box works. It's similar to pressing the Tivo button now before you turn on your TV, so you don't see the end of the show currently being recorded.

It's good to give customers the choice of whether or not they want PIP in their menus.

Stormspace

01-10-2007, 01:44 PM

Another way to prevent this problem is to just press the Pause button and it will freeze the PIP. This is how the current Comcast DVR box works. It's similar to pressing the Tivo button now before you turn on your TV, so you don't see the end of the show currently being recorded.

It's good to give customers the choice of whether or not they want PIP in their menus.

Unless it's Survivor and you have the latest evictee frozen on the screen in the middle of his monologue. :)

rainwater

01-10-2007, 01:45 PM

Unless it's Survivor and you have the latest evictee frozen on the screen in the middle of his monologue. :)

Or sports and the score is shown right in front of you.

hongcho

01-10-2007, 01:50 PM

After looking at those screenshots at TiVoLovers, I actually think some of the UI choices they made for ComcasTiVo is better than the current UI (at least on HR10-250). I like it!

Hong.

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 02:14 PM

Another way to prevent this problem is to just press the Pause button and it will freeze the PIP. This is how the current Comcast DVR box works. It's similar to pressing the Tivo button now before you turn on your TV, so you don't see the end of the show currently being recorded.

It's good to give customers the choice of whether or not they want PIP in their menus.

the only problem there is if you pause with the score up on the screen.

as long as there's no audio you can just teach yourself not to look over there anyway.

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 02:16 PM

After looking at those screenshots at TiVoLovers, I actually think some of the UI choices they made for ComcasTiVo is better than the current UI (at least on HR10-250). I like it!

Hong.

i actually agree- I hope much of the new UI makes it's way over to the tivo units. Even with Pip.

bkdtv

01-10-2007, 02:18 PM

After looking at those screenshots at TiVoLovers, I actually think some of the UI choices they made for ComcasTiVo is better than the current UI (at least on HR10-250). I like it!Agreed.

ZeoTiVo

01-10-2007, 02:23 PM

Agreed.
I like the new UI choices as well. Much better than drilling down into menus like we do now.

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 02:28 PM

anyone see a version number on the comcast box anyplace?

I'm curious if it's a 9.x or if it's a whole new system since it's apparently OCAP based.

If It's 9.x I'd guess we'd get a bit of that when they merge the code back together again....

trausch

01-10-2007, 02:54 PM

Let's see.....transfer my Direct Tv Lifetime over to TIVO and replace my HR10-250 with a series 3, Replace my other two standard definition direct tivo boxes for the wife and kids with two of these hybrid comcast boxes....maybe its time to dump direct tv for comcast.

The only thing that would keep be with DirecT TV at this point is that home server with the slave boxes the talked about at the last CES and haven't talked about since.

jlb

01-10-2007, 02:55 PM

I like the new UI choices as well. Much better than drilling down into menus like we do now.

We don't have to drill down....we have shortcuts from TiVo Central.

I love this. Even if I don't get it, it should help the TiVo $hip stay afloat. I am shifting from two STS2 boxes to one next week (cost cutting). The key to getting the Comcast box for me is if I can convince my local Comcast outlet to let me rent the DVR box without having to upgrade my service. Right now I am basic cable only for $10/month. But, that being said, when I finally breakdown and get an HDTV, this will be a nice option to choose from, along with the S3 at whatever price it will be at that time.

Here's hoping it does well!!!!!

MickeS

01-10-2007, 03:13 PM

the only problem there is if you pause with the score up on the screen.

as long as there's no audio you can just teach yourself not to look over there anyway.

The main problem is of course that the feature is COMPLETELY useless, since one can always just pause, do the menus and then go back and resume.

This feature is for people who don't have a clue about why they have a DVR in the first place. They add this useless feature for the idiots, and let the smart ones figure out ways to bypass it so they won't have their shows spoiled. Great idea. :rolleyes:

jlb

01-10-2007, 03:27 PM

Anyone know if you can feed these moto boxes (and if TiVoi will account for it) a cable connection AND an OTA antenna for pulling in the HD channels?

dt_dc

01-10-2007, 03:30 PM

Anyone know if you can feed these moto boxes (and if TiVoi will account for it) a cable connection AND an OTA antenna for pulling in the HD channels?The motorola boxes that the cable companies buy don't have an 8VSB tuner.

So ... no.

dswallow

01-10-2007, 03:31 PM

ZeoTiVo

01-10-2007, 03:33 PM

Anyone know if you can feed these moto boxes (and if TiVoi will account for it) a cable connection AND an OTA antenna for pulling in the HD channels?
Guide data will come from comcast. Even if the hardware is there for oTA (whihc I tyhink it is not) Comcast will of course never supply the guide data.

This is a box supplied by comcast and part of their business model. It will fall under the same requirements to get a DVR - eg digital cable, etc.. and will be an extra fee to get the TiVo interface over the normal DVR fee, though they have not specified pricing yet.

It will be great for regular DVR users (just record the show and watch it from the same DVR) though it will be the same uphill battle to get them someone unfamiliar with season passes and wishlists to see why they would want to pay more for it. I hope this group gets marketed well by Comcast and many want to buy into season passes and wishlists becasue then they will never go back ;)

for those already using TiVo DVRs for OTA or networking features this only appeals to provide HD and VOD/PPV in one box at a low price.

mikey94025

01-10-2007, 04:08 PM

The main problem is of course that the feature is COMPLETELY useless, since one can always just pause, do the menus and then go back and resume.

One situation where it is not useless is if you were watching live TV (e.g. sports), during commercials or other uninteresting portions of the show you can go in and manage your recordings, see what's going to be recorded, see what's on the guide and setup new recordings, etc. all while keeping an eye on the show so that you can return to it when desired. It may be hard for you to realize this if you haven't had the chance to use it.

Just because a feature does not exist on the current Tivo UI does not make it COMPLETELY useless. Try to keep an open mind... It is possible to improve upon the Tivo UI and while the Comcast UI may not be the answer, the fundamental new capability may still be useful.

ajwees41

01-10-2007, 04:14 PM

Stormspace

01-10-2007, 04:20 PM

One situation where it is not useless is if you were watching live TV (e.g. sports), during commercials or other uninteresting portions of the show you can go in and manage your recordings, see what's going to be recorded, see what's on the guide and setup new recordings, etc. all while keeping an eye on the show so that you can return to it when desired. It may be hard for you to realize this if you haven't had the chance to use it.

Just because a feature does not exist on the current Tivo UI does not make it COMPLETELY useless. Try to keep an open mind... It is possible to improve upon the Tivo UI and while the Comcast UI may not be the answer, the fundamental new capability may still be useful.

A TiVo is always recording, so you pause it, do your thing, go back to live TV, and skip to the good stuff. You aren't going to miss anything.

wicketr

01-10-2007, 04:48 PM

A TiVo is always recording, so you pause it, do your thing, go back to live TV, and skip to the good stuff. You aren't going to miss anything. It's called multi-tasking. Maybe I want to watch TV while I'm adding shows to Season Pass or whatever. If I can do that, I'd prefer it.

Although I agree some wouldn't like it, I'd rather be able to use it. Currently, I don't like the fact that I have to stop watching TV when I go to the menu structure.

MickeS

01-10-2007, 04:49 PM

It's called multi-tasking. Maybe I want to watch TV while I'm adding shows to Season Pass or whatever. If I can do that, I'd prefer it.

Although I agree some wouldn't like it, I'd rather be able to use it. Currently, I don't like the fact that I have to stop watching TV when I go to the menu structure.

Then I hope they at least make it so the "feature" can be disabled for those of us who frequently start watching a show before it's finished recording. Maybe an "auto-disable" setting that automatically hides the PIP window if a recording is in progress.

MichaelK

01-10-2007, 04:52 PM

A TiVo is always recording, so you pause it, do your thing, go back to live TV, and skip to the good stuff. You aren't going to miss anything.

I'm not one of them- but some sports fans really hate the prospect of watching a second too late- like having 3 minutes of buffer built in. You'd have to ask one of them why it drives them mad. My brother in law has tivo but insists on watching every baseball game live. He's perpetually calling me to say "did you just see that play" and I'm always saying "dont say a word I'm 3 innings behind." It drives him crazy not to watch live....

TivoJunkie43

01-10-2007, 05:01 PM

One of the best things I see so far.......the 2 letters 'HD' under the Tivo guy!

Ahhh.....Tivo in HD without spending $800 bucks! I'll take it.

-k

When you can rent a HD DVR from comcast for $10.00 and DL TIVO software to it month why would anyone in his or her right mind pay $800.00 for a HD TIVO box. Well unless they don't have Comcast, but I've heard rumors that TIVO is busy whoring I mean making deals with other cable providers as well.

My prediction: The $800 box will be going for $299 (with rebate) by the 4th of July.

Anyone has a guess what the monthly fee for TIvo software on a comcast box will be? I say $5.99.

BlackBetty

01-10-2007, 05:04 PM

Stormspace

01-10-2007, 05:10 PM

I'm not one of them- but some sports fans really hate the prospect of watching a second too late- like having 3 minutes of buffer built in. You'd have to ask one of them why it drives them mad. My brother in law has tivo but insists on watching every baseball game live. He's perpetually calling me to say "did you just see that play" and I'm always saying "dont say a word I'm 3 innings behind." It drives him crazy not to watch live....

1. If you don't watch live you can't use your mystical FAN powers to change the outcome since it's over already. :rolleyes:

2. The players won't hear you when you scream at them from your couch.

3. The coaches can't benefit from your superior knowledge of the game.

-more- (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4761307#post4761307)

dswallow

01-10-2007, 05:22 PM

When you can rent a HD DVR from comcast for $10.00 and DL TIVO software to it month why would anyone in his or her right mind pay $800.00 for a HD TIVO box. Well unless they don't have Comcast, but I've heard rumors that TIVO is busy whoring I mean making deals with other cable providers as well.

My prediction: The $800 box will be going for $299 (with rebate) by the 4th of July.

Anyone has a guess what the monthly fee for TIvo software on a comcast box will be? I say $5.99.
First, only MSRP is $799.99. Current street price is more in the neighborhood of $650.

The HD DVR rental is more like $16.95; $11.95 for the first one, though technically that's because a basic decoder is included in package pricing -- which brings up another point -- if you aren't already at a digital level, there's that incremental cost to consider, too.

Then on top of that will be whatever extra Comcast charges for the TiVo software on their DVR. If it's about $5.99, that'd make it a $22.94/month item.

So at $650/$22.94 that's just over 28 months. Of course, you're still paying Comcast something for the digital output and second CableCard; but you also have access to OTA digital broadcasts (and actually OTA analog stuff if anyone still cares).

Finally, if you move and you happen to move to a non-Comcast area, the Series3 is still going to have a use, even if there isn't a cable provider where you move to. So it's not like the investment has all that many limitations.

kemcg

01-10-2007, 07:03 PM

First, only MSRP is $799.99. Current street price is more in the neighborhood of $650.

The HD DVR rental is more like $16.95; $11.95 for the first one, though technically that's because a basic decoder is included in package pricing -- which brings up another point -- if you aren't already at a digital level, there's that incremental cost to consider, too.

Then on top of that will be whatever extra Comcast charges for the TiVo software on their DVR. If it's about $5.99, that'd make it a $22.94/month item.

So at $650/$22.94 that's just over 28 months. Of course, you're still paying Comcast something for the digital output and second CableCard; but you also have access to OTA digital broadcasts (and actually OTA analog stuff if anyone still cares).

Finally, if you move and you happen to move to a non-Comcast area, the Series3 is still going to have a use, even if there isn't a cable provider where you move to. So it's not like the investment has all that many limitations.

What about the cost of the Tivo service/lifetime transfer? I don't see that factored in here......

dswallow

01-10-2007, 07:15 PM

What about the cost of the Tivo service/lifetime transfer? I don't see that factored in here......
The comparison isn't exclusive to lifetime subscribers. I think people can adjust the numbers for their particular situation. I was just showing that there's more to it than apples vs. apples. Integrating OTA digital and analog, for instance.

TiVo receivers with lifetime also have a residual value that historically has been pretty high. If that continues, and TiVo doesn't start selling lifetime service from scratch again, it's probably a good bet that most of the up-front money spent to buy the hardware and pay for the lifetime transfer will be recouped upon resale at some indeterminate point int he future.

ChuckyBox

01-10-2007, 07:25 PM

My prediction: The $800 box will be going for $299 (with rebate) by the 4th of July.

My prediction: Your prediction is wrong.

angelobanjo

01-10-2007, 07:46 PM

The HD DVR rental is more like $16.95; $11.95 for the first one, though technically that's because a basic decoder is included in package pricing -- which brings up another point -- if you aren't already at a digital level, there's that incremental cost to consider, too.

Then on top of that will be whatever extra Comcast charges for the TiVo software on their DVR. If it's about $5.99, that'd make it a $22.94/month item.

I'm confused--what are you talking about? Our line item for dvr/hdtv lists the service as $9.95 a month.

Angelo

mikey94025

01-10-2007, 07:54 PM

TiVo receivers with lifetime also have a residual value that historically has been pretty high. If that continues, and TiVo doesn't start selling lifetime service from scratch again, it's probably a good bet that most of the up-front money spent to buy the hardware and pay for the lifetime transfer will be recouped upon resale at some indeterminate point int he future.

So therefore your cost comparison really only applies only to people who are not paying the added Tivo monthly service fee. That is, those S3 owners who purchased before 1/31/07 and transferred lifetime. I don't believe that this set of users is large enough to sustain the Tivo corporate model.

The whole argument that Tivo is cost-competitive is pretty silly, because it is not. If someone needs a Tivo S3 because they might move to an area in the future without cable service, it is much better to buy something better & cheaper at that later time. Not owning depreciating electronics hardware is big win, because then you are not out-of-pocket if something goes wrong, you can turn in units to get better hardware down-the-road (Comcast DVRs have improved to include HDMI connections instead of DVI for example, I suspect that the disk capacity will be significantly greater in two years and renters will be able to upgrade at no extra cost, etc.).

You must justify the added Tivo service cost with substantive added value. And it would also be more productive to discuss what other business arrangements or deals Tivo might be able to do in order to compete with a cable provider who does not have to make money on the DVR hardware because they have the cable service fees vs. a third-party service that must continually justify added service fees & hardware costs. Otherwise, you're just kidding yourself that it is a workable financial model. Yes, it's not fair. But it's the reality that Tivo lives in.

dswallow

01-10-2007, 08:40 PM

I'm confused--what are you talking about? Our line item for dvr/hdtv lists the service as $9.95 a month.
Apparently this is due to a price increase -- and of course different areas may vary a bit, I suppose; I was unaware of prior pricing since I'm just switching to Comcast this month and I was apparently quoted the new rates.

dswallow

01-10-2007, 08:44 PM

So therefore your cost comparison really only applies only to people who are not paying the added Tivo monthly service fee. That is, those S3 owners who purchased before 1/31/07 and transferred lifetime. I don't believe that this set of users is large enough to sustain the Tivo corporate model.
There's still advantages provided by OTA digital and analog reception/recording in addition to cable. For example, where I'm located, I'm in the NYC market, but I'm also able to receive most of the Philadelphia OTA digital channels if I aim my antenna that way. They're not provided via cable. So that's a potential plus.

But you're ignoring that it's not all about price. In life there's some things that just cost more than other things and different people rate those values in different ways. Some people buy Levi's, others buy Tommy Hilfiger. They're both relatively decent jeans. But they're not the same jeans.

One also doesn't have to be larger than all your competitors to survive and thrive in a market.

kemcg

01-10-2007, 08:49 PM

The comparison isn't exclusive to lifetime subscribers. I think people can adjust the numbers for their particular situation. I was just showing that there's more to it than apples vs. apples. Integrating OTA digital and analog, for instance.

TiVo receivers with lifetime also have a residual value that historically has been pretty high. If that continues, and TiVo doesn't start selling lifetime service from scratch again, it's probably a good bet that most of the up-front money spent to buy the hardware and pay for the lifetime transfer will be recouped upon resale at some indeterminate point int he future.

What I meant is that you didn't appear to include the lifetime transfer fee (or monthly tivo fee if that is the route you are going).

Wouldn't it be ($650 + $199)/$22.94 = 37 months.

Yes, the S3 will have more residual value than my S2, BUT it requires cablecards, whereas my S2 does not. So my S2 is more flexible if I should use it in a second room or whatever without incurring a cost. I know we are not talking about S2's here. But if I go with the Comcast system, I would rather have my S2 (with lifetime) as a second Tivo so it doesn't cost anything and I am not dependant on the cards (and potenially get charged another outlet fee or something). BTW, I have a brand new S2 sitting in a box. I am just trying to decide if I should open it or go with the Comcast. If I am way off base about my S2, let me know because that might be a convincing reason to switch.

Deacon West

01-10-2007, 09:07 PM

No, no, no, the S3 does not require CableCards. It does a banner job OTA with an antenna. Also, it can work with both OTA and Cable at the same time without a CableCard.

smak

01-10-2007, 09:13 PM

Stu_Bee

01-10-2007, 10:11 PM

If you don't have lifetime on the S3, then it could really be considered kind of like a rental (ie the Tivo monthly service fee exists). Without the monthly fee it's just a doorstop. si?

Your also forgetting the downside of owning a S3 instead of renting a ComcastTivo..... if it breaks, you can't get a replacement for free.

m_jonis

01-10-2007, 10:27 PM

I wish I had Comcast instead of TW cable. Sigh.

drew2k

01-10-2007, 10:43 PM

I don't think this has been addressed yet, but doesn't presence of PIP mean many familiar TiVo keystrokes will no longer work in menus and the guide?

EX:

Page-Up/Down with PIP present would likely change channels in the PIP window instead of jumping up and down pages in the menu or guide.

FFWD and REV will no longer jump to different times/channels in the guide; instead they'll serve as trick play forward and reverse for the PIP content.

(These features will likely require use of the clunky ABCD keys, but I didn't see a dedicated Page-Up/Down key on the remote, so no idea how that will be implemented.)

d_anders

01-10-2007, 10:51 PM

Anyone know if you can feed these moto boxes (and if TiVoi will account for it) a cable connection AND an OTA antenna for pulling in the HD channels?

Just curious, why do you think that this would even be needed? Comcast typically pulls in and provides all the local HD channels as part of it's service. While I could see this need to compliment or save money on SAT service, I don't see it with comcast with dual hd tuners.

Do you happen to live in an area where you can pull in additional HD channels from a different geographic market?

d_anders

01-10-2007, 11:10 PM

Why are there so many people crapping all over this news.

Folks, this isn't an S3 vs ComcasTivo argument. There are many advantages for each. Hopefully, the standalone platform will always provide the leading edge of dvr/dmr capabilties and give TiVo a living/usable platform to show viable/usable capabilities that they could market to both to direct consumers, but also market to Cable Providers. Each platform's success is mutually beneficial to each other...and in both cases they are very beneficial to cable providers...

If cable providers haven't woken up yet, the S3 is probably the single biggest device to reduce churn. Unless someone had no choice but to move to an area without cable, who in their right mind would plop down $800+ for a S3, and leave their cable provider for a Sat company.

Folks that rent their DVR, including the cabletivo's have far less to lose if they switch to SAT.

That all said, hopefully, CableTivo is the wave of the future, and if TiVo is successful with Comcast, they will have a huge advantage to negotiate a deal with others.

First of all, S3 is a great choice for anyone who doesn't have comcast, or any comcast customer who doesn't have access to moto hardware.

For any cable provider providing their own DVR service, what a hopeful Tivo/Comcast partnership success would show is that Cable companies could possibly attract more customers from their sat competitors, get a larger amount of add-on TiVo service revenue (on top of the base DVR services they already charge), and potentially provide their customers with even a richer home-media experience....less churn, more profit.

This is far more than what the sat companies can provide with the combination of both on-demand, dvr, and potentially home network/share capabilities (which Comcast has been noted to have expressed interest with TiVo).

That said, one victim of a cabletivo success is the potential holdoff of IPTV services including IPTV ondemand movies, etc. I think there is a major reason why we still haven't seen ondemand movies via IP to either S2 or S3's....cable partnerships and their potentially large subscriber bases pave the way to real profitability.

CraigHB

01-10-2007, 11:39 PM

That's so great to see the CTiVo come to life. Unfortunately, I don't have Comcast as a cable provider. But, I'll be happy with cable and an S3. The really big advantage of the integrated solution is the availability of VoD and PPV through the TiVo. I have PPV through my DTiVo and it's very cool. PPV *and* VoD makes CTiVo well worth the price of admission.

mikey94025

01-10-2007, 11:40 PM

(These features will likely require use of the clunky ABCD keys, but I didn't see a dedicated Page-Up/Down key on the remote, so no idea how that will be implemented.)

Don't worry -- The current Comcast DVR remote has dedicated keys for page-up/down and even day-forward/back, etc. It's quite messy, but capable. Any future remote will probably have at least as much complexity.

mikey94025

01-10-2007, 11:46 PM

For any cable provider providing their own DVR service, what a hopeful Tivo/Comcast partnership success would show is that Cable companies could possibly attract more customers from their sat competitors, get a larger amount of add-on TiVo service revenue (on top of the base DVR services they already charge), and potentially provide their customers with even a richer home-media experience....less churn, more profit.

It's Tivo's best hope for the future. The challenge will be how to market/justify the add-on fee to the large number of "basic" customers. It's easy to charge more for DVR vs. no-DVR capabilities. It's hard for me to imagine an extra fee for "improved usability" that would generate large numbers, but continuing to build out unique home-media experience services falls right in Tivo's alley.

AndrewFischer

01-11-2007, 09:25 AM

It's easy to charge more for DVR vs. no-DVR capabilities.

When we signed up here in Atlanta HD-Ready with DVR and HD-Ready without DVR were the same price. $9.95 (HD Ready adds a handful of HD channels like MTV HD, Discovery HD... and enables HD premium channels.)

But you have to pay for digital cable to get the DVR, so the minimum package that includes a DVR is around $70 month once you include all the taxes and fees.

jlb

01-11-2007, 10:04 AM

Just curious, why do you think that this would even be needed? Comcast typically pulls in and provides all the local HD channels as part of it's service. While I could see this need to compliment or save money on SAT service, I don't see it with comcast with dual hd tuners.

Do you happen to live in an area where you can pull in additional HD channels from a different geographic market?

I am one of those who currently has basic Comcast cable for $10/month. HD, for me, includes many added costs. First, I don't yet have an HDTV. Then, there would (as dswallow noted) be the additional upgrade to my service level. My reason for asking the questions was based on seeing if there was anyway I could get Comcast to rent me the Moto box without having to upgrade all the way up. If I could (and I know it is not very likely), then I could add the OTA to pickup my local HDs. It's just wishful thinking for a soon to be one STS2 household.

And back to the prior statements....let's not forget that if you go the rent/Comcast route, and something happens to the box, then you just bring it back and get another one. Just make sure you keep a manual copy of your SPL handy......

dt_dc

01-11-2007, 10:40 AM

Re: the video in menus & spoilers

Seriously ... it's easy enough to implement this without exposing the user to spoilers. Scientific Atlanta and their (insert negative adjectives here) SARA interface actually pulled it off (if memory serves ... personal experience). I'm sure Tivo will figure it out.

Yes, it's easy enough to muck up too. Digeo (from earlier comments) obviously didn't get it right. Verizon (personal experience) didn't get it right in their first release either. Their latest minor release had a fix specifically addressing this ... almost there (not quite, but better). Dunno about Passport, iGuide, MSTV, etc.

But anyway, seriously, it's perfectly possible to implement in a 'spoiler free' way.

And I love it ... find it very usefull.

And not for 'live' TV either (I never watch live TV). For recorded content (or recordings in progress).

News, Sports Center, talk shows (Charlie Rose) ... stuff that tends to flip (quickly) between stuff that I'm pretty interested in / watch and stuff that I just kindof casually half way watch or listen too while possibly doing other things (check some email, make TCF posts, etc). Heck, even football (time outs / time beteen plays / etc).

What happens is ... you end up doing any / all 'DVR maintenance' during those times.

For example ...

SportsCenter: And, in Dallas Terrel Owens has said ...

Me: Yawn ... well I could 30sec skip or FF but who knows what he's going to say so ... ok, I'll check out the to-do list and what-not and make sure everything is handled right for the Presidential Address tommorow ...

SportCenter: Blah blah blah ... me me me ...

Me: Ok, looking good ... woops, pad that show just in case ...

SportsCenter: I'd also like to let everyone know that I'm an alien from the Triton 5 system sent to take over your planet. Bow before me. Take me to your leader ...

Me: what? exit / watch full-screen

The keys are
1) It shouldn't always be a 'live buffer' (as pointed out earler) ... it's whatever you're watching. If you're watching live ... yes, it's live. But if you're watching a recording or buffered TV ... it's the recording or buffer (where you are).
2) When you're done watching a recording and delete / erase / whatever ... no automatically pulling up the live buffer either. It needs to stay blank / empty / whatever untill you choose whatever you're going to watch next (for example, Verizon puts up a little 'End Of Show' image).
3) Tivo Central (er, Comcast Central?) needs to come up first thing when turning the box 'on' (again, with that blank / empty / whatever video in the menu untill you choose whatever you're going to watch next).

Yes, it's an easy feature to muck up / implement poorly. But it can also be implemented well. I was surprised at how usefull it ended up being when I first got one of the cable DVRs with it.

blips

01-11-2007, 11:15 AM

Does anyone have any information on when the general public can get this? I saw spring of this year but it was unclear whether that was beta testing or everyone can get one. I have a cousin who I got into Tivo awhile ago and is really needing to do something for HD. He has the Comcast HD box he doesn't like but doesn't want to drop the money on the S3. Can I tell him Spring of this year or realistically will it be like the end of the year?

trojanrabbit

01-11-2007, 11:16 AM

maharg18

01-11-2007, 11:37 AM

andydumi

01-11-2007, 11:46 AM

I am curious as to pricing schemes for this, perhaps 5 extra dollars? and also what boxes will it use, the current one at 120gb is pretty small.
There was an announcement from Motorola on a new partnership, so perhaps well see bigger better boxes on Comcast soon, perhaps coinciding with a Tivo roll out.

ZeoTiVo

01-11-2007, 11:55 AM

So since there's an Ethernet connector on the back of the DVR (yes I realize it may go nowhere), is there any chance of being able to at least do MRV (or photo viewing etc), if only with a series 2 so there's no copyright issues?no networking featurs are implemented in this first release they showed. Might come down the road adn would of course just be a download upgrade. Word from a TiVo exec at CES is that S3 is now in limited Alpha test of MRV and TTG for SD content.

dbtom

01-11-2007, 01:58 PM

Word from a TiVo exec at CES is that S3 is now in limited Alpha test of MRV and TTG for SD content.

That would be strange as they have heretofore blamed the delay of MRV and TTG on CableLabs. I suppose they could have gotten some feedback and then needed to make some changes or re-designs.

marksman

01-11-2007, 02:04 PM

The main problem is of course that the feature is COMPLETELY useless, since one can always just pause, do the menus and then go back and resume.

This feature is for people who don't have a clue about why they have a DVR in the first place. They add this useless feature for the idiots, and let the smart ones figure out ways to bypass it so they won't have their shows spoiled. Great idea. :rolleyes:

Pretty ignorant on your part. One of the biggest flaws for all the TiVos until now is you are forced to spend a significant amount of time not watching tv when you are managing your TiVo. That was just bad form from the beginning. Sorry if you can't figure out how to not spoil your show, but people have different things they watch and some things are not nearly important to do in a large screen. Considering the ridiculous amount of time it takes to sometimes manage season pass lists and such on the TiVo, being able to have a talking heads program going in the small window is hugely beneficial for those of us who are smart enough to know how to take advantage of it.

So while you think it is a stupid feature for dumb people, all the smart people I know who have actually used equipment with a similar feature would strongly disagree with you.

rainwater

01-11-2007, 02:05 PM

no networking featurs are implemented in this first release they showed. Might come down the road adn would of course just be a download upgrade.

It will be like any other DVR software and the cable company will be able to control which features are implemented. Just ask Diego how willing cable companies are to implement advanced networking features :)

rainwater

01-11-2007, 02:06 PM

So while you think it is a stupid feature for dumb people, all the smart people I know who have actually used equipment with a similar feature would strongly disagree with you.

I think you should talk to my entire family who has used Moxi for over a year and our opinion will strongly differ from yours.

cwoody222

01-11-2007, 02:20 PM

I'm in Time Warner country but this box looks GREAT!

/sits happily with my Series3 and OTA HD for the meantime

jwehman

01-11-2007, 02:49 PM

...and also what boxes will it use, the current one at 120gb is pretty small.
There was an announcement from Motorola on a new partnership, so perhaps well see bigger better boxes on Comcast soon, perhaps coinciding with a Tivo roll out.

a. Moto also makes a 160GB box (dct4316) which is basically identical to the dct6412, except no analog tuner.

b. Scanpa (frequent poster over at avsforum - works with Comcast or very closely) stated today that Comcast is working on allowing external SATA HDD in addtion to the TiVo interface, which would take care of a VERY BIG problem with the current Moto limitations. Of course, they have to get past Cable-labs first, but there is hope.
Link:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9419643&&#post9419643

Rgds,

Jwehman

[Edit to include link to post]

Also - some cool new shots of the interface (new as opposed to the ones we all saw yesterday...)
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/09/comcast-dvr-with-tivo-pics-features/

ZeoTiVo

01-11-2007, 02:53 PM

b. Scanpa (frequent poster over at avsforum - works with Comcast or very closely) stated today that Comcast is working on allowing external SATA HDD in addtion to the TiVo interface, which would take care of a VERY BIG problem with the current Moto limitations. Of course, they have to get past Cable-labs first, but there is hope.

Rgds,

Jwehman Good to hear Comcast is working to get the eSATA going. Always betetr when some large companies join in

MichaelK

01-11-2007, 02:54 PM

1. If you don't watch live you can't use your mystical FAN powers to change the outcome since it's over already. :rolleyes:

2. The players won't hear you when you scream at them from your couch.

3. The coaches can't benefit from your superior knowledge of the game.

-more- (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4761307#post4761307)

Ohhhhhh

NOW I get it.

LOL!

MichaelK

01-11-2007, 03:04 PM

Apparently this is due to a price increase -- and of course different areas may vary a bit, I suppose; I was unaware of prior pricing since I'm just switching to Comcast this month and I was apparently quoted the new rates.

Sorry to wander O but…

Did I just read that correctly-

You gave up on DirecTV and are moving to cable?

(or just adding cable to your stable?)

dt_dc

01-11-2007, 03:11 PM

One of the biggest flaws for all the TiVos until now is you are forced to spend a significant amount of time not watching tv when you are managing your TiVo.Exactly / agreed.

Yes ... better features (wishlists, suggestions, better search, etc) can (significantly) reduce this time (especially when compared to other DVRs without those features ... or with them but poorly implemented).

Yes ... better / more knowledgeable / more experienced use of these features can (significantly) reduce this time.

But ... the 'video in menus' feature can (effectively) reduce the time down to 0.

And yes, it's certainly possible to implement it without exposing the user to any spoilers. Hopefully Tivo will take note and do so ...

Seriously though ... I don't understand all the judging of a feature from a poor implementation of it? :confused:

/sarcasm on

I think Season Passes must be the most useless thing in the world. Seriously, why would anyone want it? Why would they waste time on developing it?

You see, my Scientific Atlanta DVR has this 'Season Pass' thing ... or something pretty close. But here's the thing ... you set up a bunch of 'Season Passes' ... and then when schedules and times change (or there's a marathon or something else funky) and the DVR goes to try to record three (or more) things at once ... guess what happens?

Well, the DVR only has two tuners so ... it doesn't record anything. How would the DVR possibly ever know what you wanted it to record?!? How could a 'Season Pass' ever handle that kind of stuff?!?!

So Season Pass ... no thanks. Missed shows ... missed recordings ... ugh. I'll just set up my recordings VCR-style thank-you very much. Manual recordings ... that's the way to do it.

I sure hope there's a way to turn off this Season Pass stuff so I don't miss all my shows.

/sarcasm off

MichaelK

01-11-2007, 03:24 PM

That would be strange as they have heretofore blamed the delay of MRV and TTG on CableLabs. I suppose they could have gotten some feedback and then needed to make some changes or re-designs.

I don’t think tivo is limiting it to SD- I believe they are limiting it to ANALOG and perhaps digital OTA. By not fiddling with digital cable content then they don’t need cablelabs approval.

I just think everyone confuses sd with analog and HD with digital in common speak.

Scott Stevens

01-11-2007, 03:25 PM

I am one of those who currently has basic Comcast cable for $10/month. HD, for me, includes many added costs. First, I don't yet have an HDTV. Then, there would (as dswallow noted) be the additional upgrade to my service level. My reason for asking the questions was based on seeing if there was anyway I could get Comcast to rent me the Moto box without having to upgrade all the way up. If I could (and I know it is not very likely), then I could add the OTA to pickup my local HDs. It's just wishful thinking for a soon to be one STS2 household.

I called yesterday to ask the exact same question. I subscribe to limited basic cable in addition to DirecTV. I have DTV with 4 DTiVos running: I recently got an HDTV with a QAM tuner, and got Comcast to view HD locals. It costs me $16 per month. To add the DVR to record HD, I would need to get a digital package ($62/ month), and then the DVR ($12/month). At that point, I may as well go ahead and just buy a Series 3.

TiVo Troll

01-11-2007, 03:40 PM

It's Tivo's best hope for the future. The challenge will be how to market/justify the add-on fee to the large number of "basic" customers. It's easy to charge more for DVR vs. no-DVR capabilities. It's hard for me to imagine an extra fee for "improved usability" that would generate large numbers, but continuing to build out unique home-media experience services falls right in Tivo's alley.

Wonder how much the monthly will be vs. $11.95.

BTW; don't like the EPG as much as MS's current one on the 6412.

Wonder if they'll stick with TiVo's standard 1/2 hr. recording buffer vs. Comcast's typical 1 1/2 hrs?

TiVo Troll

01-11-2007, 03:45 PM

dswallow

01-11-2007, 03:54 PM

Sorry to wander O but…

Did I just read that correctly-

You gave up on DirecTV and are moving to cable?

(or just adding cable to your stable?)
Comcast is scheduled to install 1/18 for Digital Cable, Digital Voice and High Speed Internet, then once all appears to be working, I will be canceling DirecTV, Verizon, Vonage, and Local-ISP's Verizon DSL, then will figure out what I'm doing with my 3 hacked HR10-250's, SAT-T60, a couple regular DirecTV receivers, a Zenith HD-SAT520, and my Bell ExpressVu stuff that I never sold off... the HD 6000 receiver, an SD DVR, and an SD receiver.

Early-Spring cleanup. :)

rainwater

01-11-2007, 04:00 PM

Right on! :up: :up: :up:

Uh, it's not a matter of how smart you are. It depends on how you use your DVR. My family often sits down late in the evening to watch shows that are currently recording (American Idol, sports, etc), and having the LiveTV buffer on TiVo Central is not a good thing. While having it in the guide is nice, we all absolute can't stand the way this is implemented in Moxi (and the same with the Comcast TiVo).

bicker

01-11-2007, 04:30 PM

This feature is for people who don't have a clue about why they have a DVR in the first place.That's a pretty self-centered perspective :down:, and pretty inflammatory as well.

I especially like to watch Headline News or The Weather Channel ("Weather on the Eights") in the inset while searching for programs.

"Recording Headline News or The Weather Channel to watch later is for people who don't have a clue why there are 24 hours news and weather channels." :p

Pretty ignorant on your part. One of the biggest flaws for all the TiVos until now is you are forced to spend a significant amount of time not watching tv when you are managing your TiVo. That was just bad form from the beginning. Sorry if you can't figure out how to not spoil your show, but people have different things they watch and some things are not nearly important to do in a large screen. Considering the ridiculous amount of time it takes to sometimes manage season pass lists and such on the TiVo, being able to have a talking heads program going in the small window is hugely beneficial for those of us who are smart enough to know how to take advantage of it.

So while you think it is a stupid feature for dumb people, all the smart people I know who have actually used equipment with a similar feature would strongly disagree with you.What he said.

samo

01-11-2007, 04:50 PM

Pretty ignorant on your part. One of the biggest flaws for all the TiVos until now is you are forced to spend a significant amount of time not watching tv when you are managing your TiVo. That was just bad form from the beginning. Sorry if you can't figure out how to not spoil your show, but people have different things they watch and some things are not nearly important to do in a large screen. Considering the ridiculous amount of time it takes to sometimes manage season pass lists and such on the TiVo, being able to have a talking heads program going in the small window is hugely beneficial for those of us who are smart enough to know how to take advantage of it.

So while you think it is a stupid feature for dumb people, all the smart people I know who have actually used equipment with a similar feature would strongly disagree with you.

That's a pretty self-centered perspective :down:, and pretty inflammatory as well.

I especially like to watch Headline News or The Weather Channel ("Weather on the Eights") in the inset while searching for programs.

"Recording Headline News or The Weather Channel to watch later is for people who don't have a clue why there are 24 hours news and weather channels." :p

Exactly. Posts against PIP remind me arguments about 30 sec skip (before hack for TiVo was discovered) and FSI. Some simpletons here just have "If it's not a part of present TiVo UI, then nobody needs it" attitude.

dswallow

01-11-2007, 04:55 PM

GoHokies!

01-11-2007, 05:06 PM

Personally, i don't like the PIP video. It's not like I spend a lot of time in the menus "managing" my Tivo, which is what I like about Tivo - I can set it and forget it, and anytime that I sit down I'm going to have a long list of shows there waiting for me to be watched.

If some people want it, hey, that's great. Include it or make it an option, I don't care (as long as it is implimented correctly like dt_dc wrote about).

I think that the "for dumb people" kind of personal attacks are complete bulls#$it and you all ought to be ashamed of yourselves (marksman).

Stormspace

01-11-2007, 05:07 PM

I have no problem with PIP being an option. But that's just it: an option. Once it's mandatory, it's taking away screen real estate I'd prefer be used for something pertaining to whatever activity I'm doing... more lines of listings; more text of the description, etc.

I don't mind the PIP either as long as there is a spoiler remover option. I've either forgotten or the TiVo has been too slow a number of times and it's spoiled things for the wife. I'd rather not have it if there isn't a way around it to remove spoilers.

drew2k

01-11-2007, 07:10 PM

I don't mind the PIP either as long as there is a spoiler remover option. I've either forgotten or the TiVo has been too slow a number of times and it's spoiled things for the wife. I'd rather not have it if there isn't a way around it to remove spoilers.The only time you have to worry about "PIP video spoilers" is if both tuners are actively recording.

If only one tuner is in use for a recording, that tuner is usually the background tuner, so nothing to worry about when you go to the menu, as the foreground tuner will be in the PIP window.

If both tuners are in use for recordings, you could work on your reflexes and quickly go to the Recordings list and press play on your first title. Two clicks: List, Play. If it's a show you don't want to watch just yet, just hit pause. So three clicks, and you avoid spoilers. Voila!

TiVo Troll

01-11-2007, 10:55 PM

Uh, it's not a matter of how smart you are. It depends on how you use your DVR.

Exactly. Which is the underlying reason I basically don't like the way TiVo is designed even though it works great.

TiVo is structured to be used in a particular fashion. More power to TiVo but that's why I'm a troll when it comes to TiVo. I basically want a DVR which can be used like a VCR but is much more convenient because of using a hard drive instead of tapes. Then I want to easily transfer selected hard drive recordings to DVDs.

The cheap solution is a TiVo DVD recorder with TiVo Basic. My much more expensive solution, which enables watching TV precisely my way, is to use several TiVos or other tuners such as cable boxes as sources for a ReplayTV DVRs which always remain on the same input and are in the chain only for their disc sized recording buffers. The output of these ReplayTVs then supplies a DVD recorder. One DVD recorder can be connected to three sources.

My favorite DVD recorder is the discontinued Philips hard drive model with a 6 hour recording buffer which isn't dropped when changing channels. Any portion of its recording buffer can be recorded and then edited at any time before being transferred to DVD.

The Philips DVD recorder with the 6 hour buffer has some powerful downsides including perhaps the worst laid out remote control ever designed. Still it can do just about whatever you want it to do if you can deal with its extremely steep learning curve.

TiVo is struggling to make a profit, and, after almost 10 years, still hasn't. NOBODY has yet made a profit being exclusively a DVR provider. Every other DVR now available is provided by a program provider as an incentive to subscribe to their service. Hopefully the Comcast deal will help TiVo toward profitability or at least illustrate how much demand there really is for the TiVo concept of what a DVR should be.

TiVo Troll

01-11-2007, 11:17 PM

I think that the "for dumb people" kind of personal attacks are complete bulls#$it and you all ought to be ashamed of yourselves (marksman).

It was MickeS (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4760665&&#post4760665) who started on that path. Marksman merely rebutted!

I completely understand why that kind of usage issue causes personal reactions. TiVo has a very specific design philosophy and a hardcore following. But its not for everyone.

Justin Thyme

01-12-2007, 01:11 AM

All these screenshots of the comcast UI's aren't too thrilling without seeing friendly features like TivoShanan's or TivoPony's appendages in the frame.

harley3k

01-12-2007, 01:41 AM

the only problem there is if you pause with the score up on the screen.

as long as there's no audio you can just teach yourself not to look over there anyway.

The way my new FIOS DVR does it is - if only one program is recording, it defaults to showing the other non-recording tuner. So unless you're recording 2 shows at once, you don't accidentally see the middle of a recording.

-h

harley3k

01-12-2007, 01:48 AM

The only thing that would keep be with DirecT TV at this point is that home server with the slave boxes the talked about at the last CES and haven't talked about since.

If you're referring to the Home Media Center, that was 2 CES's ago - way back in January of '05. Suspiciously nothing was mentioned at last year's CES about it even though they stated it would be out by the end of '05 in the initial press release. At the Jan '06 CES they announced the VIIV stuff that would allow you to stream DirecTV content TO your PC, but they are just now starting to the VIIV stuff in the HR20, and the data seems to be going the other way (to the HR20 from the PC).

This year's CES, nothing was said about either of these projects, but they instead announced 100 new HD channels would be available by the end of this year......

hmmmmmm.... what to believe.

-h

drew2k

01-12-2007, 08:04 AM

The way my new FIOS DVR does it is - if only one program is recording, it defaults to showing the other non-recording tuner. So unless you're recording 2 shows at once, you don't accidentally see the middle of a recording.

-hIs there an echo in here ? :D

MichaelK

01-12-2007, 11:20 AM

still no one has discovered the version number?

SMWinnie

01-12-2007, 12:03 PM

shady

01-12-2007, 12:05 PM

Is there an echo in here ? :D
No, they have their own PVR! :D

danieljanderson

01-12-2007, 01:17 PM

If you get the ComcasTiVo and Comcast decides to sell to Time Warner (Recently happened for a lot of people), what happens to your unit?

Is Time Warner now obligated to support it?
Would they take it away?
Would it pave the way for all Time Warner customers?

cherry ghost

01-12-2007, 01:31 PM

My family has two TiVos, an HTPC and a Comcast/Moto 6412/iGuide DVR.

Frankly, even as TiVo fans we've found the 6412 with iGuide to be just fine for our needs - with one exception. As I'm sure you all know, responsiveness of the unit to remote input is just downright horrible. Response is slow, slow, unpredictably slow and makes trickplay unbearable.

If the CTiVo fixes that problem, we'll pay the additional monthly charge. If not (and I suspect it will be not), then we won't.

I agree, the CTivo won't fix that problem. It also won't fix the problem of not having guide data stored on the unit itself and taking up to 48 hours to completely repopulate after a reboot/unplug/power outage and it won't fix the problem of not having access to recorded programs when the cable is out.

davezatz

01-12-2007, 01:39 PM

It also won't fix the problem of not having guide data stored on the unit itself and taking up to 48 hours to completely repopulate after a reboot/unplug/power outage and it won't fix the problem of not having access to recorded programs when the cable is out.

Actually, much of your speculation is wrong.

cherry ghost

01-12-2007, 01:49 PM

Actually, much of your speculation is wrong.

Are you saying guide data will be stored on the unit instead of being sent as a data burst over the OOB tuner like it is now?

davezatz

01-12-2007, 01:51 PM

Are you saying guide data will be stored on the unit instead of being sent as a data burst over the OOB tuner like it is now?

More current data will be local, further out data on the headend.

cherry ghost

01-12-2007, 02:03 PM

More current data will be local, further out data on the headend.

So, after a reboot/unplug there will still be some data there immediately but it will take some time to get the 12-14 days worth we are accustomed to?

MickeS

01-12-2007, 02:31 PM

Pretty ignorant on your part. One of the biggest flaws for all the TiVos until now is you are forced to spend a significant amount of time not watching tv when you are managing your TiVo. That was just bad form from the beginning. Sorry if you can't figure out how to not spoil your show, but people have different things they watch and some things are not nearly important to do in a large screen. Considering the ridiculous amount of time it takes to sometimes manage season pass lists and such on the TiVo, being able to have a talking heads program going in the small window is hugely beneficial for those of us who are smart enough to know how to take advantage of it.

So while you think it is a stupid feature for dumb people, all the smart people I know who have actually used equipment with a similar feature would strongly disagree with you.

OK, I'll reverse my statements. We who don't want PIP by default are idiots, so please make it so that it's NOT turned on by default, and instead let the smart ones who like it figure out how to turn it on. ;)

davezatz

01-12-2007, 03:20 PM

In case it hasn't been mentioned: The Comcast-TiVo PIP window can be paused in the menu using the pause button. It puts the yellow remote button image in the center of the video window. Sadly, I didn't take enough pictures and most of the ones I took look like crap.

Additionally, if there ever comes a time when TiVo adds PIP to the S3 it was made it clear to me (without any prompting on my part) that there are issues in having something revealed before we're ready to see it. Also they are aware that maybe PIP isn't appropriate on every menu screen. So if it ever happens, it will probably be well thought out.

ad301

01-12-2007, 03:32 PM

I'm surprised that no one has yet commented/complained about the lack of a space remaining indicator. :)

andydumi

01-12-2007, 03:51 PM

I called Comcast today on an unrelated matter and asked about the Tivo stuff, the lady didnt know anything but transferred me to a tech, who said its still early discussions now, and we probably wont see anything til march april, and also he said they are working with motorola on some sort of new DVR box with a larger HD, and some external storage possibilities which should be available around the same time...

MickeS

01-12-2007, 04:58 PM

Adam1115

01-12-2007, 06:53 PM

No surprise - Comcast made stated TiVo appealed to them as an advertising platform. Though this Guide doesn't look very TiVo-like. I'm heading over at 9AM and will see what I can discover, though Mega got the 6 hour demo and will know more (even after I'm done). Hopefully he'll check in and brief everyone.

Thank god, maybe we'll get the NEW guide on SA models! The one thing I hate about the TiVo is the bad guide...

dmdeane

01-12-2007, 08:45 PM

Exactly. Which is the underlying reason I basically don't like the way TiVo is designed even though it works great.

TiVo is structured to be used in a particular fashion. More power to TiVo but that's why I'm a troll when it comes to TiVo. I basically want a DVR which can be used like a VCR but is much more convenient because of using a hard drive instead of tapes. Then I want to easily transfer selected hard drive recordings to DVDs.The market has spoken in your case; if TiVo is still working on finding a way to profitability and the only other real alternative is subsidized cable or sat. DVRs that are much less useable, than the fact that you don't see anyone else coming out with a new "DVR which can be used like a VCR but is much more convenient because of using a hard drive instead of tapes" is because there is even less a market for that kind of a product than there is for TiVo. So TiVo is right not to cater to your needs: if even the big consumer electronics companies can't make a profit with such a product, than TiVo certainly can't either. TiVo still are in business after all, and that's not an accident even if they haven't yet achieved their goal of long term profitability. If sounds to me what would satisfy your needs is a media center or home theater type PC or equivalent.

As to PIP, I really don't see why they can't make features like this user-controllable, so you could turn it on or off at will. Then everyone is happy. I like TiVo the way it is, my only quibble is their tendency not to allow these kinds of user-controlled tweeks. IMO most of the TiVo features should be tweekable, if that is a word. I understand they want to keep things simple and "according to the TiVo philosophy" so as to cater to newbies, but old timers and power users should have access to deeper levels of control over the user interface. Maybe we'll see more of that as they open up more things to HME.

CraigHB

01-12-2007, 11:52 PM

Thank god, maybe we'll get the NEW guide on SA models! The one thing I hate about the TiVo is the bad guide...I don't use the guide much. I do just about all my program hunting via the search functions. That and Season Pass are probably the two most important functions for me. A DVR that does those well can satisfy my needs for the most part.

mattack

01-13-2007, 02:15 AM

It's called multi-tasking. Maybe I want to watch TV while I'm adding shows to Season Pass or whatever. If I can do that, I'd prefer it.

Yeah, I use my TV's PIP all the time to watch the 'other' Tivo in PIP and do 'housekeeping' (check the to do list and remove some entries, check out tonight's listings).

mattack

01-13-2007, 02:37 AM

When you can rent a HD DVR from comcast for $10.00 and DL TIVO software to it month why would anyone in his or her right mind pay $800.00 for a HD TIVO box.

Because it's FAR more than just $10/month.. You're leaving out the extra fee for the Tivo service.. and the huge price to "upgrade" to digital cable in the first place. Yes, I know it sounds weird, but my intention is to use my S3 with the unscrambled HD channels on cable (and I'll try hooking a rabbit ears type antenna to it too to see if I get anything), and the rest of the analog stuff. At the moment we now have digital cable at my house, but that wasn't my choice.. When I move somewhere else, I won't have digital cable unless it's a long term special promo type of thing (i.e. not ~$15-$20 more than extended basic like it usually is).

Plus, some of us just don't like monthly fees.. (obviously cable is a monthly fee -- but if I could pay a HUGE amount and avoid that, I'd do that too!)

davezatz

01-13-2007, 09:23 AM

restart88

01-13-2007, 09:54 AM

Your posts sound like you want ComcastTiVo to fail. Why? Don't you think that without solid Cable client base to replace DirecTV contract TiVo will go belly up? S3 is just a stop gap measure. The real money and subscription growth is in CableTiVo.

Just curious if this box receives digital tier? The last time I had cable my Tivo stopped short of channel 100.

ThreeSoFar

01-13-2007, 10:06 AM

Just curious if this box receives digital tier? The last time I had cable my Tivo stopped short of channel 100.
It does, if you use it with CableCARDs. You need either zero or two (working) CableCARDs in it to use it in dual tuner mode.

See the Comcast (or other) threads here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317989) for the trials and tribulations of getting the CCs to work.

Once working, they tend to be stable. Mine, at least.

bicker

01-13-2007, 10:38 AM

I think that the "for dumb people" kind of personal attacks are complete bulls#$it and you all ought to be ashamed of yourselves (marksman).I agree, but to be fair, that was in response to a message where there was a personal attacks made by MickeS against folks who agree with marksman ("don't have a clue" and "for the idiots"), so I took marksman's comment to be a gesture reflecting MickeS's behavior back on him/her.

bicker

01-13-2007, 10:44 AM

TiVo Troll

01-13-2007, 11:59 AM

The market has spoken in your case; if TiVo is still working on finding a way to profitability and the only other real alternative is subsidized cable or sat. DVRs that are much less useable, than the fact that you don't see anyone else coming out with a new "DVR which can be used like a VCR but is much more convenient because of using a hard drive instead of tapes" is because there is even less a market for that kind of a product than there is for TiVo. So TiVo is right not to cater to your needs: if even the big consumer electronics companies can't make a profit with such a product, than TiVo certainly can't either. TiVo still are in business after all, and that's not an accident even if they haven't yet achieved their goal of long term profitability. If sounds to me what would satisfy your needs is a media center or home theater type PC or equivalent.

As to PIP, I really don't see why they can't make features like this user-controllable, so you could turn it on or off at will. Then everyone is happy. I like TiVo the way it is, my only quibble is their tendency not to allow these kinds of user-controlled tweeks. IMO most of the TiVo features should be tweekable, if that is a word. I understand they want to keep things simple and "according to the TiVo philosophy" so as to cater to newbies, but old timers and power users should have access to deeper levels of control over the user interface. Maybe we'll see more of that as they open up more things to HME.

Most cable subsidized DVR's fill the bill of working somewhat like VCR's but much more conveniently. Only TiVo is set up for watching almost all TV programming timeshifted.

The market is still in the process of speaking. How long can TiVo keep losing (http://investor.tivo.com/edgar.cfm?DocType=Annual&Year=) $35 million a year?

TiVo is designed by geniuses to be operated by idiots and computer geeks!

It would be nice if various TiVo idiosyncrasies were user adjustable, but it's not likely that many new adjustments will become available from TiVo. Heavy duty geeks might be able to tweek almost everything, including that ultimate no-no -- access to the TiVo service.

I have several hard drive recorders which I use along with TiVo, some with adjustable FF/RW offsets and skip intervals. Almost anything has been available from someone somewhere!

jayfest

01-14-2007, 04:40 AM

GoHokies!

01-14-2007, 06:31 AM

I agree, but to be fair, that was in response to a message where there was a personal attacks made by MickeS against folks who agree with marksman ("don't have a clue" and "for the idiots"), so I took marksman's comment to be a gesture reflecting MickeS's behavior back on him/her.

Yeah, I noticed that I didn't go back far enough...

Both of you! ;)

Adam1115

01-14-2007, 03:02 PM

I don't use the guide much. I do just about all my program hunting via the search functions. That and Season Pass are probably the two most important functions for me. A DVR that does those well can satisfy my needs for the most part.

I completely agree with you, the crappy guides on TiVo is by FAR a show stopper, I hated it at first, but now that I time shift everything, use the awesome search features, it's not that big of a deal. Plus I can use the online guide. Still, I'm willing to concede as a TiVo fanatic that the guide sucks and that the Comcast TiVo guide looks MUCH better.

CraigHB

01-14-2007, 03:22 PM

There are two guide formats for the TiVo, at least on my DTiVo. I don't care much for the grid guide, but I find the list guide serves me well enough. There's probably room for improvement in both guide types, but since they are not highly used features for me, I can live with what's offered. Now, a DVR that lacks the guide data searchabilty of the TiVo would be a show stopper for me.

Regarding PiP in the menu system, it's not something I've ever thought about so that indicates I wouldn't really have any desire for it. Likely, I'd find it more of an annoyance than anything. I'd prefer to see that screen real estate used for information rather than what's playing on the last channel the unit tuned to. Even if I have PiP in the menu system while playing a recorded show, wouldn't I rather watch my show full screen anyway? PiP seems like an appendix feature to me. It's like they did it "because they can" instead of doing it to add a useful feature.

MichaelK

01-14-2007, 09:19 PM

Unless I've missed the reference in this thread, one previously unmentioned feature I consider to be a significant advantage TiVo has over my Concast is the fact that the TiVo guide info goes out 13 or 14 days, whereas the Comcast guide (in my region at least) only goes for 7 days. Even if Comcast incorporates the TiVo searching features, if their program info only goes 7 days, the TiVo will still be much more useful for searching.

good question

earlier guessing said that tivo would get comcast to send more data for the tgivo based units to use and the other boxes would ignore it. (does the typical comcast guide info have all the typical tico stuff- like actors and genres and all that ?)

But i haven't seen anyone say for sure one way or the other now that it's in the wild.

Myself often (not daily but probably a couple times a month) I find myslef wishing that there was more like a month of guide data. I'll frequently see a commerical and then go to search for the show but it's not yet in the guide- kind of takes away some of my ability to be impulsive about recording stuff.

TivoJunkie43

01-14-2007, 11:23 PM

Do you need dictionary definitions of the differences between RENT and OWN, or can you look those up yourself?

-smak-

I misunderstood your question.

My statement infers that switcing to comcast and renting their equipment seems (to me) like the more attractive alternative. If you knew long division you could've figured it out for yourself.

My point is you'd have to rent for over 4 years before you recoup the money you spent on new equipment, and what is a 4 year old HD Tivo box going to be worth?

BTW mine rebooted 3 times today, and right now its froze up but appears to be recording...otherwise i'd just kick the plug out of the wall. On top of that i had a reboot, and missed the beginning of the Bears game. :mad: :mad:
I don't have HD but I'll be getting it soon enough and looking at all my other service options.

TivoJunkie43

01-14-2007, 11:56 PM

Because it's FAR more than just $10/month.. You're leaving out the extra fee for the Tivo service.. and the huge price to "upgrade" to digital cable in the first place. Yes, I know it sounds weird, but my intention is to use my S3 with the unscrambled HD channels on cable (and I'll try hooking a rabbit ears type antenna to it too to see if I get anything), and the rest of the analog stuff. At the moment we now have digital cable at my house, but that wasn't my choice.. When I move somewhere else, I won't have digital cable unless it's a long term special promo type of thing (i.e. not ~$15-$20 more than extended basic like it usually is).

Plus, some of us just don't like monthly fees.. (obviously cable is a monthly fee -- but if I could pay a HUGE amount and avoid that, I'd do that too!)

Granted there are the extra fees for Tivo service and digital Comcast isn't cheap. I think it's around $70 for a nice digital (comcast) package in my area. I have a lesser known cable provider, and my digital service is only about $10 extra. However I believe Comcast has better service than I now have, and movies on demand which i miss (I used to have Comcast).

Another fee that i'd have to include is a phone line for Tivo setup. I wish Tivo could be set up using only a broadband connection. When I moved to this place I had to temporarily add a broadband phone line just to setup my Tivo. I imagine Comcast DVR doesn't require a phone setup?

dswallow

01-15-2007, 12:29 AM

Another fee that i'd have to include is a phone line for Tivo setup. I wish Tivo could be set up using only a broadband connection. When I moved to this place I had to temporarily add a broadband phone line just to setup my Tivo. I imagine Comcast DVR doesn't require a phone setup?
I set up a Series 2 DT that I got my mom for Christmas without using the phone line; I set up my Series 3 without using the phone line, either. All done online; the Series 2 DT with a TiVo wireless adapter (since it wasn't convenient to hardwire from where it was located), and the Series 3 with just a direct hardwired connection.

ThreeSoFar

01-15-2007, 12:54 AM

I set up a Series 2 DT that I got my mom for Christmas without using the phone line; I set up my Series 3 without using the phone line, either. All done online; the Series 2 DT with a TiVo wireless adapter (since it wasn't convenient to hardwire from where it was located), and the Series 3 with just a direct hardwired connection.
Of the 15+ TiVos I've owned or set up for others, I used phone line to do so on exactly two of them.

Even Series 1's (with the right dial prefix) worked fine via broadband.

TivoJunkie43

01-15-2007, 01:01 AM

I set up a Series 2 DT that I got my mom for Christmas without using the phone line; I set up my Series 3 without using the phone line, either. All done online; the Series 2 DT with a TiVo wireless adapter (since it wasn't convenient to hardwire from where it was located), and the Series 3 with just a direct hardwired connection.

That's great! Thanks for the reply!

I'll have to upgrade I guess. I'm surprised Tivo didn't do more to advertise the fact that you no longer need a phone line for setup. For us people who don't have a land line it's a PITA.

TivoJunkie43

01-15-2007, 01:07 AM

Of the 15+ TiVos I've owned or set up for others, I used phone line to do so on exactly two of them.

Even Series 1's (with the right dial prefix) worked fine via broadband.

OMG now I'm pissed. :mad: Is this true? I always assumed the information Tivo gives in their FAQ's was correct.

"Why do I need a phone connection?
A TiVo® box works by automatically making a brief connection to the TiVo® service to download the information it needs to find the entertainment you care most about. This connection is automatic and lasts just a few minutes. If you're using a phone connection, local and long-distance toll charges may apply in some areas. Learn more.

You will need a standard phone line to complete Guided Setup on your TiVo box. Once Guided Setup is complete, you can then either leave your box connected to your phone line, or connect your box to your existing wired or wireless home network to connect via broadband. For more details, visit our support site."

NoCleverUsername

01-15-2007, 03:47 AM

OMG now I'm pissed. :mad: Is this true? I always assumed the information Tivo gives in their FAQ's was correct.

"Why do I need a phone connection?
A TiVo® box works by automatically making a brief connection to the TiVo® service to download the information it needs to find the entertainment you care most about. This connection is automatic and lasts just a few minutes. If you're using a phone connection, local and long-distance toll charges may apply in some areas. Learn more.

You will need a standard phone line to complete Guided Setup on your TiVo box. Once Guided Setup is complete, you can then either leave your box connected to your phone line, or connect your box to your existing wired or wireless home network to connect via broadband. For more details, visit our support site."I believe it depended on which version of the software was on the box to begin with. So current boxes no longer require the phone line but perhaps an older box with old software on it may still require the phone line for at least the initial setup.

GoHokies!

01-15-2007, 07:11 AM

I believe it depended on which version of the software was on the box to begin with. So current boxes no longer require the phone line but perhaps an older box with old software on it may still require the phone line for at least the initial setup.

IIRC, a phone line was no longer required out of the box when 7.2 started shipping. I beleive that was about a year ago (perhaps 14 or 16 months). There was a period of time where both types were on the market and you had to look at the labels to know what software was on the Tivo inside.

Even before that, you could enter tell Tivo you had to dial a certain prefix (*44, I think, it's been so long) to get an outside phone line, and that made the Tivo use the network for the first setup. That was never documented or supported though, you had to go somewhere like here and read about it.

ThreeSoFar

01-15-2007, 09:58 AM

Of the 15+ TiVos I've owned or set up for others, I used phone line to do so on exactly two of them.

Even Series 1's (with the right dial prefix) worked fine via broadband.
I should qualify the S1's needed both a software update (from factory version) AND a hardware mod by the user (inside the case).

And only the earliest S2's came with software that could not use the dialing prefix trick (#401).

ericholtman

01-15-2007, 10:05 AM

You are thinking in terms of single tuner. Don't forget that PIP show whatever channel and/or recording was on the full screen before you went into guide or now showing screen. For example, if you are watching buffer or game in progress, then PIP will show just what was on a full screen - not the life. If you don't want to take a chance of seeing end of the game - push any other channel on remote before you turn the TV on and PIP will be showing last tuned channel. This is how PIP works on Dish and DirecTV DVRs. No reason for ComcastTiVo to work differently.

You're not understanding the problem......

Let's just say I want to record two sports events that are on simultaneously.

(If you subscribe to something like Center Ice, it's easy to want such a feature).

Now it's an hour after the starting time, and I want to start watching one of the game. If I have that stupid PIP window, there's *NO WAY* to get to the menus and start a game without maybe accidentally seeing the score of one of the two games.

With a current Tivo, you just *always* hit the Tivo button before you turn on the TV, and you're safe.

dswallow

01-15-2007, 10:15 AM

If I have that stupid PIP window, there's *NO WAY* to get to the menus and start a game without maybe accidentally seeing the score of one of the two games.
Walk up to the screen and cover it with a piece of cardboard, start the recording playing, then remove the cardboard.

See? Simple. :)

Maybe they'll even include a piece of cardboard with the receiver!

ericholtman

01-15-2007, 10:21 AM

Walk up to the screen and cover it with a piece of cardboard, start the recording playing, then remove the cardboard.

See? Simple. :)

Maybe they'll even include a piece of cardboard with the receiver!

Maybe they could just ship me a BetaMAX too.

Try stepping into the user-configurable 21st century.

dswallow

01-15-2007, 10:27 AM

Maybe they could just ship me a BetaMAX too.
Those ought to be going up in value nowadays.

drew2k

01-15-2007, 10:31 AM

You're not understanding the problem......

Let's just say I want to record two sports events that are on simultaneously.

(If you subscribe to something like Center Ice, it's easy to want such a feature).

Now it's an hour after the starting time, and I want to start watching one of the game. If I have that stupid PIP window, there's *NO WAY* to get to the menus and start a game without maybe accidentally seeing the score of one of the two games.

With a current Tivo, you just *always* hit the Tivo button before you turn on the TV, and you're safe.Why not do what I posted earlier (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4765584&&#post4765584) in this thread?
The only time you have to worry about "PIP video spoilers" is if both tuners are actively recording.

If only one tuner is in use for a recording, that tuner is usually the background tuner, so nothing to worry about when you go to the menu, as the foreground tuner will be in the PIP window.

If both tuners are in use for recordings, you could work on your reflexes and quickly go to the Recordings list and press play on your first title. Two clicks: List, Play. If it's a show you don't want to watch just yet, just hit pause. So three clicks, and you avoid spoilers. Voila!

Your current method to avoid spoilers is to hit TiVo and then turn on the TV.

Your new method would be to hit List, Play, Pause, and then turn on the TV.

Not that much harder...