Rude TiVo customer support

[coyote]

I'm having an incredibly annoying problem with my new Series3. The clock 'drifts' up to 15 minutes between calls, running fast. In the evening, when most of my shows are recorded, the clock is usually 10 minutes fast. This results in the shows being truncated right before the murderer is revealed.

I called TiVo about this. The standard-level Tech was befuddled, and referred me to a supervisor. The supervisor came online with an attitude right away, telling me that the shows I watched had their clocks wrong. I told him that I was comparing the TiVo clock with the several atomic-synchronized laptops we had here. He then told me that if manually connecting corrected the clock, why don't I just do that?

I said that this was unacceptable, and ludicrous to suggest that I should have to manually connect to correct the TiVo's clock before shows are recorded.

Next, he told me that there was an update that was going to be released, and that it might correct this problem. I should wait and see. When asked, he said that this wasn't a known problem that was corrected, but it might be fixed incidentally.

I told him that I was worried that he was 'running out the clock' on my warranty. He responded that if I made that accusation again, he would terminate the call. I called him rude. He hung up.

So that's where I stand. I'm shaking from the experience of being treated so badly. How can they treat customers like dirt and expect us to continue patronizing them? Especially for a high-end product? I bought a TiVo expecting that the high-end DVR would have BETTER service.

Ron

[Billy66]

Sorry man. That stinks. TiVo Customer Care, although not highly empowered to do anything, are generally courteous.

The only proven method of receiving both friendly and quality service is to contact one of the TiVo employees here directly.

[funtoupgrade]

You get who you get when you call TiVo. They do not have any special CSR's or supervisors just for the series3's. When I get the run around I just wait and call right back until I get somebody more cooperative. Granted one should not have to do this, but, at the moment, this is the only way around the problem. At least the CSR's are not in India reading from a manual like most everybody else these days.

Have you tried running a new guided setup just to see if that might clear up the problem?

[Einselen]

I hope you got down his information.

I am guessing Stephen or Jerry will pop in on this thread and ask for some details from you so they can pass it on to be investigated.

[MickeS]

TiVo CS does it again! :D

I'm amazed they still have any customers every time I've dealt with them.

[Solver]

Sounds like you should report these CS reps and have them "corrected."

[Redux]

TiVo CS does it again! :D

I'm amazed they still have any customers every time I've dealt with them.They are amazingly bad, based on my small sample. Head-shakingly, did I really hear what I thought I heard, bad. I suspect the strategy is, just discourage people from calling; it may in fact be very cost-effective.

[Stormspace]

There are two sides to TiVo. The selling side and the support side. My experience has always been good when I'm buying, but support has always been lacking. I usually have to call more than once to get any resolution. Having said that I have not called for support very often simply because it feels like a waste of energy to talk to them. I have an issue on all three of my TiVo's now yet I am afraid I'll interrupt someone's meal (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=328096) if I call again.

[wdave]

I've had good experience with Tivo CS. They even did me a favor with one of my issues, something that they could have been stubborn about. But they understood my predicament, and made an exception for my case. From my perspective, they get a :up:

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I hope things are made right for you.

[TiVoStephen]

Hi coyote,

I'm very sorry to hear about your experience, and thanks for posting the details.

Can you please e-mail me (estephen@tivo.com) with your contact information so we can both talk to you about the clock issue and work with you to fix it (sounds like defective hardware to me), and also so we can find out the name of the agent you spoke with to have the rudeness issues addressed?

Sorry again to hear about the problem.

Just so you all know, we do constant polling of our customers to get feedback on if agents are treating customers with respect. We take customer support seriously, and we don't tolerate rudeness from our agents or supervisors. The vast majority of our customers calling support rate our agents with extremely positive marks for polite service. (Unlike some folks posting in this thread who may have had a single bad experience and then apply that one experience to paint their view of all of TiVo customer support, in my old position I reviewed the overall data constantly with customer support personnel, and also made numerous test calls myself. I'm sorry for anyone here who has had a bad experience, but I urge you to give us a call and give us another chance, because honestly I believe, based on my data, that the odds of not being treated with respect and politeness are very low.)

Stormspace, sorry to hear about the experience you linked to in the other thread -- was that lineup issue corrected? By the way, our policy is definitely that agents are not allowed to be eating meals while they are on duty, so thanks for reporting that issue when you called back.

Best regards,
Stephen

[ZeoTiVo]

thanks for all you do in this forum TiVoStephen :up: :up: :up:

[Stormspace]

Stormspace, sorry to hear about the experience you linked to in the other thread -- was that lineup issue corrected? By the way, our policy is definitely that agents are not allowed to be eating meals while they are on duty, so thanks for reporting that issue when you called back.

Stephen, it was the oddest thing I've ever experienced with TiVo. I couldn't believe that I was talking to a TiVo support CSR. The inability to properly communicate by using the correct terminology to a lack of understanding about season passes and wishlists was the most frustrating part.

As for the line up issues, I have no earthly clue how or why the issue was occuring. I deleted the SP's and recreated them and it's gone. The biggest thing was that it was partially my fault. One of the SP's had duplicates checked, the other did not, which made the issue doubly difficult to troubleshoot.

[eschasi]

I'm having an incredibly annoying problem with my new Series3. The clock 'drifts' up to 15 minutes between calls, running fast. In the evening, when most of my shows are recorded, the clock is usually 10 minutes fast. This results in the shows being truncated right before the murderer is revealed.

I called TiVo about this. The standard-level Tech was befuddled...Coyote -

There's no excuse for bad customer service, but in my 30-odd years of experience with computer hardware you have definately run into a rare problem. I don't say that to excuse the conduct you saw, merely to say that I understand why they might have been less than quick about understanding what was going one - and therefore possibly thinking you were a loon.

Clocks in computers are specific chips. There are lots of different kinds, and some are better than others. With modern protocols that allow machines to synchronize their clocks easily, recent clock chips seem to be going downhill in quality. But when they fail, they tend to fail completely - either time stops advancing at all, or the entire unit fails, or time is reset to zero every time the machine starts. The situation you see - the clock chip failing to count some of the ticks - is pretty rare. It would not surprise me that the TiVo service folks have never seen it at all.

Call 'em back, tell them that your clock is losing 15 minutes per day, that it's 100% repeatable, and that folks have advised you it's a hardware problem (it is). Your TiVo will almost certainly have to be replaced.

Disclaimer: I don't work for TiVo, I've not examined the internals, I am not a lawyer or doctor tho I do occasionally play one on the net, offer void in states with vowels in their name, yadda, yadda, yadda.

[Billy66]

thanks for all you do in this forum TiVoStephen :up: :up: :up:

True dat. Now if only TiVoStephen, TiVoJerry, and TiVoPony were a scalable support model, then we'd have something!

[Stormspace]

True dat. Now if only TiVoStephen, TiVoJerry, and TiVoPony were a scalable support model, then we'd have something!

Cloning perhaps?

[TiVoStephen]

As long as I get to be king of my clones (by virtue of being the original) and the rest of the clones become my personal assistants and minions, I'm all for it.

[Bierboy]

As long as I get to be king of my clones (by virtue of being the original) and the rest of the clones become my personal assistants and minions, I'm all for it.Sounds like it's time for ChuckyBox to chime in here right about now... :eek:

[coyote]

Have you tried running a new guided setup just to see if that might clear up the problem?

That's what the first rep I spoke with at TiVo suggested. I tried it, though I was a little dubious. It didn't help. I got the impression that they thought I had entered my ZIP code incorrectly. (If I had, the time would have been off by a matter of hours, not minutes.)

Ron

[coyote]

Can you please e-mail me (estephen@tivo.com) with your contact information so we can both talk to you about the clock issue and work with you to fix it (sounds like defective hardware to me), and also so we can find out the name of the agent you spoke with to have the rudeness issues addressed?

I emailed Stephen directly. I too suspected a hardware problem, and mentioned this to the supervisor I spoke with. He insisted that TiVo didn't use hardware for its clock... it was all done with software. I was surprised at this, but was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. A defective clock chip is the most obvious cause of this issue.

I'll keep the group informed as to how it goes.

Ron

[TiVoStephen]

Thanks for e-mailing, coyote.

The supervisor is misinformed; all TiVo DVRs have a hardware clock (just like any PC) and the service updates the time automatically.

[ChuckyBox]

As long as I get to be king of my clones (by virtue of being the original) and the rest of the clones become my personal assistants and minions, I'm all for it.
This is just more evidence that Stephen isn't yet a TiVo Fat Cat, as all the Fat Cats already have their own armies of personal assistant/slave clones. Of course, in the Fat Cats' case, the clone armies are made up of clones of Jessica Alba.

[Bierboy]

This is just more evidence that Stephen isn't yet a TiVo Fat Cat, as all the Fat Cats already have their own armies of personal assistant/slave clones. Of course, in the Fat Cats' case, the clone armies are made up of clones of Jessica Alba.Thanks, Chucky....I knew it was time you chimed in :D

[TechDreamer]

Just a few thing I'm curious about,

Are Tivo CSR's actually Tivo Employees?
Where are the Tivo Call Centers located?
If the Tivo CSR's are third party, do they support other products for other companies?
How much does a Tivo CSR Make?
How much training does a Tivo CSR receive?

BUT what I REALLY want to know is why the CSR's are so clueless about the actual product? I have talked to The CSR's numerous times and I always have to give a 10 minute training session before the rep even has a clue.

[TiVoStephen]

First and second level agents are not TiVo employees; we work with several vendors to outsource our customer support.

The call centers are located in New Mexico and Mississippi.

An agent assigned to work for TiVo works on no other campaign than TiVo.

I don't think I should be talking about salary information.

TiVo has developed a minimum two-week training program for new agents. All agents receive a box and service and are required to use TiVo at their home. Agents then receive multiple new training sessions throughout the year (on topics such as new hardware, new service features, new promotions, etc.).

Sorry to hear you feel the agents you have spoken to are clueless.

[Redux]

As consumers we are not willing to pay for customer service. Occasionally it will seem a company with superior customers service can support a premium price (Apple comes to mind) but it always seems to turn out that the premium is supported more by other factors (i.e. quality & dependability of the product, trendiness, etc.)

How, then, can we expect companies to have any concern about customer service other than minimizing its cost to the barely tolerable limit?

I enjoy complaining about it as much as anybody, but it's really hypocritical.

[Billy66]

First and second level agents are not TiVo employees; we work with several vendors to outsource our customer support.

The call centers are located in New Mexico and Mississippi.

An agent assigned to work for TiVo works on no other campaign than TiVo.

I don't think I should be talking about salary information.

TiVo has developed a minimum two-week training program for new agents. All agents receive a box and service and are required to use TiVo at their home. Agents then receive multiple new training sessions throughout the year (on topics such as new hardware, new service features, new promotions, etc.).

Sorry to hear you feel the agents you have spoken to are clueless.

They do really try. I give the CSR's as much crap as anyone on this forum. A lot of it isn't their fault because they aren't highly empowered to do anything at level 1 and 2. Sometimes they are clueless and they just make things worse like what happened to the OP.

But they are trying, and trying to learn. I've had more than one CSR reveal themselves to me here via PM and we've had good conversations. They are encouraged to visit here and learn, but not allowed to post.

They are trying, but it's still a phone call that you wince before you dial.

Hey TiVo CSR's. Keep fightin the good fight.

[GoHokies!]

Now I want to be a Tivo CSR just for the free Tivo!

That's a shame that they can't post here, although I can kind of understand why. I used to frequent an XM radio forum and anytime someone posted a thread suggesting that the customer support was lacking, a handful of CSRs would come in and accuse the OP of being rude and unreasonable and then whole thing turned into a turd-flinging flame-fest.

I also have had pretty good service from Tivo, but these threads seem to be a little far to common. Redux really hit it on the head though...

[bicker]

I think it is very important to differentiate about whom you're referring to. I've found TiVo's customer service people very courteous and polite. Only technical support people have been surly and discourteous.

[timckelley]

You would at least expect the supervisors to know their product well, though, and not be rude.

[amgqmp1]

First and second level agents are not TiVo employees; we work with several vendors to outsource our customer support.

The call centers are located in New Mexico and Mississippi.

An agent assigned to work for TiVo works on no other campaign than TiVo.

I don't think I should be talking about salary information.

TiVo has developed a minimum two-week training program for new agents. All agents receive a box and service and are required to use TiVo at their home. Agents then receive multiple new training sessions throughout the year (on topics such as new hardware, new service features, new promotions, etc.).

Sorry to hear you feel the agents you have spoken to are clueless.

I'm in-the-middle of an obnoxious situation with TiVo customer service...since you've been generous enough to set the precedent of helping another via this thread, I'll also take a moment to CC my posting to this e-mail. Maybe you can help avoid a chargeback...

My story:

I decided I'd like a TiVo again late last year. I bought a Humax DRT-400 directly from the TiVo web site in October 2006, and it arrived pre-activated. I signed up for a monthly billing plan, and, at first...all seemed well. Long story short, the unit was defective on arrival as it made me dozens of coasters and never successfully made a single DVD. I followed the instructions in the box and contacted Humax for Technical Support. After two calls (with their polite and effective customer service folks), I was rapidly sent a replacement unit. Per the instructions with that unit, I was to send the original back to Humax...and call TiVo to have my service switched to the new box. I did exactly as instructed and did both of those things. The new Humax unit burns DVDs as it should, and, I've overall been a happy customer...until last week...

Apparently, on December 10, 2006, TiVo decided to charge my card $349.99(USD), and issue an odd refund for ~$110...both on the same day. I just received the statement in the mail last week, and, I immediately called TiVo to find out what was going on. This is where the real insanity begins. I'm not going to bore anyone with the details of each call (and agent) I spoke with...but here are highlights of the significant problems that TiVo customer service currently has:

1 - No web-based (i.e. e-mail) customer service or support. I can think of no other word to describe that whole than....pathetic.

2 - Telephone reps. for TiVo are simply unable to handle anything I've had to contact them about. I'll elaborate below...

- The erroneous charge on my card was due to a customer service rep. error when transferring service between boxes. By making that change improperly, this kicked off an automatic "equipment non-return fee" being charged to me. Nice work.

- Each rep. I've talked to in the past week has put me on hold for 3-8 minutes (it's varied wildly) after I speak a couple sentences. Everyone one of them indicates to me that they are "making notes". This is all being addressed under the same case number, and, no one working that job should be able to type that slow (yes, obviously they aren't taking any notes).

- The two reps. I've talked to in the past week that initially answered the call indicate (after being on hold for the note taking fiasco) that I'm being transferred to "Billing". I've never been transferred to billing...rather, I've been transferred to other reps. at the same call center that make me repeat my story...at which point they put me on hold, and proceed to take "notes".

So, here I sit...an hour on the phone with TiVo has gotten me no where on reversing a charge that is the result of a significant mistake (lack of training?) by TiVo reps. In my patient and polite attempts to resolve this...I've been lied to, and given no details on when I can expect a credit back. The last rep. said it should be "within a few weeks".

If TiVo didn't have me locked into a term agreement...I'd send the box back and cancel the service immediately.

:down: :down: :down:

[jimmymac]

I've always found the Tivo reps to be very helpful. Although one time what I thought was an extremley helpful gesture turned into a big mess, although I'm sure the rep had no idea that would happen.

I suspect that many of you have never worked in a call center. I worked as a service rep for a large telco for a number of years and it's not an easy job. You spend all day listening to people complaining, dealing with rude, nasty and upset people is a regular part of your day, your activities are usually monitored--calls you're on, your use of the computer. It's a very oppressive job and it's also a job that doesn't pay very well.

I live in New Mexico and could name the company that handles Tivo's customer service. I won't though. I will say this, that in Albuquerque, where there are a lot of call centers most people make around $10 an hour. $12 an hour is probably top pay. Ten years ago when I was employed by the telco I made over $15 and that wasn't enough to compensate me for the crap I had to endure. These centers are ALWAYS looking for people. The turnover is unbelievable. People jump from call center to call center.

Personally, I think that companies that outsource their customer service to these types of centers on the whole are doing their customers a disservice. Sure it may save a lot of money in the short run, but when these people aren't actually employees they aren't really invested in the product or service they are servicing.

What I wish most people who find themselves frustrated at a service rep will remember that is that is another person on the end of the line. They are most likely underpaid and undertrained because companies don't want to spend the money on customer service. If you are getting nowhere with somebody tahnk them for their time and ask for somebody else or try calling back and hoping you get somebody who is familiar with your issue.

[amgqmp1]

I suspect that many of you have never worked in a call center. I worked as a service rep for a large telco for a number of years and it's not an easy job.

I completely understand how call centers work. So while you may be right about the many, I can assure you that I'm not one of them.

TiVo has a call center of some kind coming...down in Alabama...town of about 9000 people...where $10-12/hr jobs will be a boon. Most of the people going to work there will likely not have significant education, but are sincerely good people with a desire to better themselves.

Look, I don't expect the people answering the phones to play with particle accelerators for a hobby. What I do expect though, is that if an eggregious error was made (as in my situation), that I can get better service than the typical call center runaround. I can be as polite as I want...and as patient as I want...but I don't have any more hours to waste on hold while TiVo pays people to "take notes".

FWIW, I'm extremely impressed by the confirmation e-mail I received already from TiVoStephen. I don't usually get responses that fast from professional vendors I deal with...and they get paid a bit more than the TiVo monthly service fee. ;)

I'll keep this thread updated so that anyone interested in the evolution of my TiVo SNAFU can be kept aprised.

[DeathRider]

My story:

Apparently, on December 10, 2006, TiVo decided to charge my card $349.99(USD), and issue an odd refund for ~$110...both on the same day. I just received the statement in the mail last week, and, I immediately called TiVo to find out what was going on. This is where the real insanity begins.


Sorry to hear :(


I'm not going to bore anyone with the details of each call (and agent) I spoke with...but here are highlights of the significant problems that TiVo customer service currently has:


1 - No web-based (i.e. e-mail) customer service or support. I can think of no other word to describe that whole than....pathetic.


Would help in many situations. And of course, the email could be easily reforwarded to the proper person.


2 - Telephone reps. for TiVo are simply unable to handle anything I've had to contact them about. I'll elaborate below...

- The erroneous charge on my card was due to a customer service rep. error when transferring service between boxes. By making that change improperly, this kicked off an automatic "equipment non-return fee" being charged to me. Nice work.


Seems like an honest mistake...


- Each rep. I've talked to in the past week has put me on hold for 3-8 minutes (it's varied wildly) after I speak a couple sentences. Everyone one of them indicates to me that they are "making notes". This is all being addressed under the same case number, and, no one working that job should be able to type that slow (yes, obviously they aren't taking any notes).


It's possible they are. I didn't take typing in high school (my typing sucks), never thinking I would need it so much in present day...took German in HS instead of Spanish as well :(



- The two reps. I've talked to in the past week that initially answered the call indicate (after being on hold for the note taking fiasco) that I'm being transferred to "Billing". I've never been transferred to billing...rather, I've been transferred to other reps. at the same call center that make me repeat my story...at which point they put me on hold, and proceed to take "notes".


I would think though, if they were "taking notes," it should be available and you shouldn't have to reiterate the story again.



So, here I sit...an hour on the phone with TiVo has gotten me no where on reversing a charge that is the result of a significant mistake (lack of training?) by TiVo reps. In my patient and polite attempts to resolve this...I've been lied to, and given no details on when I can expect a credit back. The last rep. said it should be "within a few weeks".

If TiVo didn't have me locked into a term agreement...I'd send the box back and cancel the service immediately.

:down: :down: :down:


Unless you considered Lifetime locked into an agreement, I guess I'm not ;)

And if I ever have to call CS, I better have my problem recorded, so everytime someone asks, I can just hit <Play>

I hate to have to be on hold all that time if I was a person who only had a cell phone and no landline...wait that is me :(

Seems always can have a problem crop up with automation. Ordering a TiVo over the web is automated. And even calling back right way - or next day dince I ordered it at night, cn't cancel the order and actually have to wait for them to ship it so I could refuse it.

That ties up a TiVo, then shipping has to be paid both ways. Doesn't seem like a good implementation to me...

[amgqmp1]

I would think though, if they were "taking notes," it should be available and you shouldn't have to reiterate the story again.

Unless you considered Lifetime locked into an agreement, I guess I'm not ;)

And if I ever have to call CS, I better have my problem recorded, so everytime someone asks, I can just hit <Play>

I hate to have to be on hold all that time if I was a person who only had a cell phone and no landline...wait that is me :(

Seems always can have a problem crop up with automation. Ordering a TiVo over the web is automated. And even calling back right way - or next day dince I ordered it at night, cn't cancel the order and actually have to wait for them to ship it so I could refuse it.

That ties up a TiVo, then shipping has to be paid both ways. Doesn't seem like a good implementation to me...

FWIW, I also only use a cell phone...and don't keep a landline around at home.

I really hate to rag on TiVo...on the other hand, it's all I can do at this point...other than sit on my hands and hope they make things better. I suppose they have a few more days to make good, then, the thing I loathe...disputing the credit card transactions... :rolleyes:

What I've described may be abnormal...I mean, computer hardware never fails...and...I just got unlucky and got the one, untrained & hapless rep., that didn't know how to switch service between boxes....thus triggering this fiasco...right? ;)

Not being able to cancel an order placed on the Internets...I get that...if you're Dell (even Dell handles this situation better). But, they aren't Dell...the volume of TiVo hardware shipments is one that should be figured out by now...how many years has TiVo been in business? Over the years I've gained a drop (or two) of experience in each of the areas we're talking about (i.e. customer support, fulfillment, e-commerce, software, hardware, etc.).

I can live with the slow UI speed of the Humax DRT-400. I can live with paying $12.95/month for "Guide Data" and "Software Updates". Organizations with so many problems that they spill over into the laps of their customers...well folks, that's just not cool. :down:

[amgqmp1]

Well, I wish it could have been resolved via standard channels...however, I just got off the phone with TiVo Corp. They've taken care of actually performing the refund on my issue.

Thank you again, TiVoStephen! Thank you as well to the wonderful woman in corp. relations that resolved this. I'll factor this in at the end of my yearly commitment...but...that's a ways off...so, maybe I'll stick around after all... ;)

[jfh3]

This is just more evidence that Stephen isn't yet a TiVo Fat Cat, as all the Fat Cats already have their own armies of personal assistant/slave clones. Of course, in the Fat Cats' case, the clone armies are made up of clones of Jessica Alba.

Jessica Alba clones? :up:

I never wanted to be a Fat Cat ... until now!

[corwin_ranger]

Jessica Alba clones? :up:

I never wanted to be a Fat Cat ... until now!

Any chance a Jessica Alba clone would be interested in just a Fat?

Sorry, not very PC of me....Gravitationally Challenged. :D

[ZeoTiVo]

Well, I wish it could have been resolved via standard channels...however, I just got off the phone with TiVo Corp. They've taken care of actually performing the refund on my issue.

Thank you again, TiVoStephen! Thank you as well to the wonderful woman in corp. relations that resolved this. I'll factor this in at the end of my yearly commitment...but...that's a ways off...so, maybe I'll stick around after all... ;) to be fair you also got caught in between two companies, TiVo and Humax that made the situation harder to resolve. TiVo has just never fared well in trying licensing deals with other Consumer Electronics companies. The hardware and fulfillment side of TiVo has never been their core strength.
Still, you are correct that should not be the customer's problem and I am glad to hear it was resolved without making you have to call yet another company to dispute charges.

[amgqmp1]

to be fair you also got caught in between two companies, TiVo and Humax that made the situation harder to resolve. TiVo has just never fared well in trying licensing deals with other Consumer Electronics companies. The hardware and fulfillment side of TiVo has never been their core strength.
Still, you are correct that should not be the customer's problem and I am glad to hear it was resolved without making you have to call yet another company to dispute charges.

I'm lost...I can see that I got caught between two companies, but, I don't believe it was TiVo and Humax. I completely see how I was in the middle of TiVo and their call center vendors, but, not between TiVo and Humax. Maybe you can help me understand where you're coming from on that...

Oh, I did make the call to the credit card company to dispute the charges...which I learned would need to be done in writing. So, before going to that length...I figured I'd see if there was an alternate channel I could use to get this resolved...which I did.

Pardon me for such a potentially loaded question...but seriously, what do you perceive as the core strength of TiVo? According to your post, they have problems with:

- Business development (i.e. licensing deals)
- Technology R&D (i.e. hardware)
- Operations (i.e. fulfillment)

I've also added that their standard customer support channels are bogus (i.e. customer relationship management), and another person in this thread has reinforced your operations-level criticism. Adding in some external experience with a friend of mine that moved away from TiVo in the past six months (she had a problem of recurring billing continuing after the service was cancelled; it took four calls to get someone to finally get with the program and stop billing her)...I'd say their core strength is in processing charges against credit cards.

I'm seriously not trying to turn this into a TiVo bashing thread...just discussing the bigger picture that is very likely contributing to these poor customer experiences.

[minckster]

I'd say [TiVo's] core strength is in processing charges against credit cards.Oh G-d, no! They screwed up the billing for my S3 big time, so much so that my credit card's fraud-prevention unit called me twice. It all worked out eventually, but you can find similar threads about multiple billings. So perhaps their strength is (attempting) to overcharge credit cards.

[MickeS]

I think the problem is that TiVo has so little money to play with that they have to focus it on developing new products (and even that has to be done on the cheap) and are forced to do the bare minimum when it comes to customer service.

CNET named TiVo the second best product of the last ten years (http://www.cnet.com/4520-11136_1-6312246-1.html?tag=txt), and TiVo has STILL not managed to get more than a million or so subscribers. That's nothing less than PATHETIC, and I blame it on their hideously crappy marketing department.

If they had managed to sell this to the masses, I'm pretty sure their CS department would have had more money to actually train their staff, and not just throw them in front of a PC with a small cheat sheet in front of them, which is how it seems to be done right now.

[ZeoTiVo]

I'm lost...I can see that I got caught between two companies, but, I don't believe it was TiVo and Humax. I completely see how I was in the middle of TiVo and their call center vendors, but, not between TiVo and Humax. Maybe you can help me understand where you're coming from on that....
you called HUMAX customer support and returned the unit to HUMAX who sent you the replacement unit. TiVo made the error that led to the billing hassle. Most likely due to having to treat the HUMAX involvement differently than just a return of TiVo branded hardware


as to the rest, you read too much into my post as I posted a short version of my thoughts due to having discussed this numerous times before. Apologies for not being clearer.

TiVo core strength is in their software development and for being able to engineer the design of hardware for use as a DVR.

TiVo never seems to keep licsensing deals in place long with large hardware vendors- witness the Pioneer and Toshiba units not selling well enough for those bigger companies and being dropped. A string of series 1 deals with Sony and the like as well. It is not all bad but just a bumpy road for TiVo and clearly hardware has never made them any profit in the past. With that bottom line profit being elusive TiVo does farm out a lot of customer facing operations on a strict budget, problems always ensue despite any best intentions in such circumstances.
so that was it - nothing deeper

[amgqmp1]

you called HUMAX customer support and returned the unit to HUMAX who sent you the replacement unit. TiVo made the error that led to the billing hassle. Most likely due to having to treat the HUMAX involvement differently than just a return of TiVo branded hardware

as to the rest, you read too much into my post as I posted a short version of my thoughts due to having discussed this numerous times before. Apologies for not being clearer.

TiVo core strength is in their software development and for being able to engineer the design of hardware for use as a DVR.

Aye, I did call Humax...per the printed instructions in the box with the TiVo. Both the printed instructions (and I believe the TiVo web site, but can't recall 100%) directed me to deal with the hardware vendor on the issue. I did just that, and, frankly Humax was a gem to work with -- especially in comparison to TiVo. My point was that I was caught between TiVo and the unempowered organization(s) that do their outsourced customer support.

To take a step back...I definitely haven't had a smooth start with TiVo here. To summarize:

1 - The hardware I received was defective (though it was refurbished...which should indicate that it is used and was pretested {i.e. the use of the word "refurbished"}). Either it magically broke in shipping, or, it went out the door as a junker.

2 - After following the instructions given to me by the org. that sold me the hardware and the service...I end up with an erroneous credit card charge.

3 - After seeing the erroneous credit card charge, I call the folks responsible for it...and get involved in more note taking than you'd need for graduate level chemical engineering classes.

4 - After waiting a few business days...I get impatient and come to these forums looking for alternate channels of assistance. I found the alternate channel, and, was well treated by utilizing it.

Other than demonstrating my child-like resourcefulness for finding contact info on the Internets, and working with folks empowered to solve the problem...it's been a pretty $!#*ty experience.

[Mike Farrington]

I think the problem is that TiVo has so little money to play with that they have to focus it on developing new products (and even that has to be done on the cheap) and are forced to do the bare minimum when it comes to customer service.True, but you have to give them credit for not actually doing the "bare minimum" by farming it out to foreign call centers. Trying to explain things to a clueless CSR is at least a little bit easier when both are speaking in their native tongue (and without heavy accents, idioms, and jargon that can also impede technical conversations).

[amgqmp1]

True, but you have to give them credit for not actually doing the "bare minimum" by farming it out to foreign call centers. Trying to explain things to a clueless CSR is at least a little bit easier when both are speaking in their native tongue (and without heavy accents, idioms, and jargon that can also impede technical conversations).

They do have heavy accents...they're southern US, but they're heavy accents none-the-less. ;) (Well, except for a fella I spoke to in New Mexico...no southern accent there).

IMHO, the outsourced customer service is typically no better here in the states than it is in outsourced, foreign call centers.

[timckelley]

1 - No web-based (i.e. e-mail) customer service or support. I can think of no other word to describe that whole than....pathetic.I also dislike this. If you go to TiVo.com, there is indeed an email link for you to email questions about your DirecTiVo. But if you have a SA TiVo, there is no email option. You must call by phone.

My most recent phone call left me doubting the advice I got because the agent seemed confused and unsure if the answers he gave me. With email, maybe if they're unsure, they'd become sure before actually typing a response. It would certainly be nice to be able to email customer service.

Also, you'd think it would be more efficient for them to be able to answer a list of emails vs a live phone call. I wonder why they don't do this, considering that it seems like it would be mutually beneficial for both parties involved.

[Bai Shen]

I've had good experience with Tivo CS. They even did me a favor with one of my issues, something that they could have been stubborn about. But they understood my predicament, and made an exception for my case. From my perspective, they get a :up:

I'm sorry to hear you had a bad experience. I hope things are made right for you.

+1

[Bai Shen]

They do have heavy accents...they're southern US, but they're heavy accents none-the-less. ;) (Well, except for a fella I spoke to in New Mexico...no southern accent there).

IMHO, the outsourced customer service is typically no better here in the states than it is in outsourced, foreign call centers.

When I called about my DT, the woman had a strong southern accent. But IIRC, I've called 3-4 times for various issues and don't really remember strong accents the other times.

[amgqmp1]

Also, you'd think it would be more efficient for them to be able to answer a list of emails vs a live phone call. I wonder why they don't do this, considering that it seems like it would be mutually beneficial for both parties involved.

I'm sure they just aren't convinced that this "e-mail" thing is going to catch on... ;)

I would love to know the latest reasoning (from someone @ TiVo) for not offering customer service via what is now a more standard channel than the telephone.

[ewilts]

As long as I get to be king of my clones (by virtue of being the original) and the rest of the clones become my personal assistants and minions, I'm all for it.
If one of you was superior to the other, then it wouldn't be a good clone, would it?

:-)

.../Ed

[ewilts]

CNET named TiVo the second best product of the last ten years (http://www.cnet.com/4520-11136_1-6312246-1.html?tag=txt), and TiVo has STILL not managed to get more than a million or so subscribers. That's nothing less than PATHETIC, and I blame it on their hideously crappy marketing department.
It's always the marketing department's fault, isn't it? It's why we're stuck with Windows instead of AmigaOS or MacOS and why Digital Equipment died and took the Alpha processor with it. It's why VMS is dying and Unix is growing. It's why Beta lost to VHS. The list goes on and on... The best products don't always win. The best people don't always get the promotions.

.../Ed

[ZeoTiVo]

I'm sure they just aren't convinced that this "e-mail" thing is going to catch on... ;)

I would love to know the latest reasoning (from someone @ TiVo) for not offering customer service via what is now a more standard channel than the telephone.
actually this topic comes up once a year or so and in the past people from TiVo have replied that when they tried email support they found a high number of cases required the customer to call in anyway, so they found no return on using resources to plow through the emails since mostly it was - sorry you need to call us - replies.

For instance in your case they would not have completed an RMA without telling you to contact HUMAX directly. All email would have done in your case is added a few days and some more frustration on your part.

[ZeoTiVo]

It's always the marketing department's fault, isn't it? It's why we're stuck with Windows instead of AmigaOS or MacOS and why Digital Equipment died and took the Alpha processor with it. It's why VMS is dying and Unix is growing. It's why Beta lost to VHS. The list goes on and on... The best products don't always win. The best people don't always get the promotions.

.../Ed


lets look at the list shall we
iPod (2001)

TiVo (1999)
It took a long time for people to even get the concept of what TiVo was. It has finally moved beyond "pausing live TV" to an entertainment-center essential that inspired a myriad of competitors, none of which even come close to having as good an interface. Plus, it has Linux inside, which gives it extraspecial geek points.


Google (1996)
Napster (1999) morphed into a pay site that is no longer king
Firefox (2004) keeping pace with tech heads but hardly any great market share. PalmPilot (1996) morphed into something else and now struggling against Windows smart phones for market share
Motorola Startac (1996) first cell flip phone. Still a viable concept but Motorolla is just part of a huge market.
Apple iMac (1998) ummm, how many of these you see hanging around
Sony Digital Mavica MVC-HD5 (1997) Digital camera and Sony the company has had its woes lately
The Sims (2000) this is still doing well but is hardly on everybodies PC or MAC.

[timckelley]

actually this topic comes up once a year or so and in the past people from TiVo have replied that when they tried email support they found a high number of cases required the customer to call in anyway, so they found no return on using resources to plow through the emails since mostly it was - sorry you need to call us - replies.

For instance in your case they would not have completed an RMA without telling you to contact HUMAX directly. All email would have done in your case is added a few days and some more frustration on your part.

My question (about what's wrong with the Showcases menu option) could easily have been answered by email. I'd like to think a whole bunch of questions can be answered by email. Namely, informational requests. Even some action requests likely could be done by email.

It just seems like they're behind the times by not offering email.

[TiVoStephen]

We offered e-mail support for the first four or five years we were in business. I forget the percentage, but our research showed that something like over 70% of the issues e-mailed to us required interaction and couldn't be solved at all by e-mail. For example, by far the number one support issue we get (even today) are issues related to hooking up a DVR (e.g., channel changing issues, video or audio issues). But even for the issues that could be solved by e-mail, a significant number of them required three or more exchanges to resolve.

Customers were on the whole dissatisfied with e-mail support, but on the whole were pleased with phone support (this data came from three separate methods we have of surveying customers who use support).

E-mail support proved to be the worst of all worlds: Non-interactive (and unable to help the majority of cutomers, who needed help with their DVR right in front of them), expensive, and ineffective.

It was a difficult decision, but ultimately the support organization went with emphasizing three alternatives to e-mail support:

Knowledge information at www.tivo.com/support/,
Forum support (http://forums.tivo.com/ as well as here), and
24-hour interactive voice help when you call our support number (1-877-367-8486).

Please remember that many of our customers are not as sophisticated in their use of e-mail as folks here on the forum (who tend to be more experienced Internet users). I remember when I audited e-mail support (because in the early days, I made sure I was copied on every single support e-mail going in or out of the company), about a third of the time the e-mail did not even contain basic required information to identify the customer. We'd get bare e-mails that said things like, "Pls change the credit card you bill for tivo thanks." As you can imagine, that's just frustrating for everybody.

[ZeoTiVo]

My question (about what's wrong with the Showcases menu option) could easily have been answered by email. I'd like to think a whole bunch of questions can be answered by email. Namely, informational requests. Even some action requests likely could be done by email.

It just seems like they're behind the times by not offering email.
actually I have never found support for a product like this forum provides for TiVo adn I have found the support forum directly at www.tivo.com to have good answers when I am looking for something very specific.

Basically TiVo has hit upon an "open source" support model (meaning us in ths forums) that far exceeds anything they could train someone for and provide at a reasonable cost. I challenge anyone to show an email support that responds as quickly as this forum does. :up:

[kjmcdonald]

We offered e-mail support for the first four or five years we were in business. I forget the percentage, but our research showed that something like over 70% of the issues e-mailed to us required interaction and couldn't be solved at all by e-mail. For example, by far the number one support issue we get (even today) are issues related to hooking up a DVR (e.g., channel changing issues, video or audio issues). But even for the issues that could be solved by e-mail, a significant number of them required three or more exchanges to resolve.


While I don't doubt that email may not be the right fit for 'technical support'. It might be worthwhile for Customer Service (Billing issues, Returns, Rebates, etc.)

Anything where a customer needs to submit information for Tivo to look at, research, and reply, I would think would work better over email than being put on hold and bounced around a call center, having to repeat yourself over and over.

-Kyle

[ZeoTiVo]

While I don't doubt that email may not be the right fit for 'technical support'. It might be worthwhile for Customer Service (Billing issues, Returns, Rebates, etc.)

Anything where a customer needs to submit information for Tivo to look at, research, and reply, I would think would work better over email than being put on hold and bounced around a call center, having to repeat yourself over and over.

-Kyle
In the past I had pushed for a web form under manage your account so it would make them enetr the needed info and link up to the right account. The answer was not enough resources to make that happen.

Any resources free for such a project yet TiVoStephen. :)

[timckelley]

I challenge anyone to show an email support that responds as quickly as this forum does. :up:I suppose you're right, but the question I had recently, I could not find an answer for in this forum. (The answerers didn't know). But this doesn't discount the wisdom of this forum, because to tell the truth, I'm not sure even the CSR on the phone I talked to knows the answer either. I only called them because I didn't get an answer in this forum.

So your basic point is probably right: that if an answer is to be gotten, it can most likely be gotten here, and fairly quickly.

[timckelley]

E-mail support proved to be the worst of all worlds: Non-interactive (and unable to help the majority of cutomers, who needed help with their DVR right in front of them), expensive, and ineffective.

I just wonder if a question can't be answered by email, why they can't just answer: "please call us at xxx-xxx-xxxx". Or if 3 exchanges are needed, so be it. Let the exchanges happen. I'm not sure how this is more expensive that having 3 exchanges in a few minutes by phone, vs 3 exchanges over several days by email. I would assume the CSR answering email would be answering a batch of it, so even the 3 exchanges that occurred over 3 days, I would think, would only cost the CSR a few minutes of their time.

Well, I suppose if the CSR has to type a bunch of troubleshooting questions, I can see where that would take a bunch of time, so in that case, I'd say they should tell them to simply call them. I'm just surprised that this option is considered expensive for TiVo to offer, but I'm certainly no expert, and I might be overlooking something. I would think there'd be a potential for cost savings from all the quick answers that could be given by email, and the fact that you can smooth out the fast and slow times of day by batching the work effort to answer emails.

Now things like "how to I hook up my DVR?", I understand, and I would suggest not answering that and typing a macro response: "Please call us".

Or there's ZeoTiVo's solution of a webform. The webform could have hooking up a DVR as one of the choices, and if the user selects that it could automatically disable the email option and tell them they need to call.