Recording Retention Times, Series 3

[w2jo]

I am noticing that recordings with the " Yellow bullet + exclamation point" sometimes are erased by TiVo S3 without there being a need for the space. This never happens on my S1 which I think is the way it ought to work. At present there are 51 "Tivo Suggestions" on my S3 so there is obviously plenty of space available.

Yet, last night, there were 9 HDTV recordings saved and when I turned the TV on this morning, there were just 4 left. The 5 oldest HDTV programs had been erased.

My Tivo S3 has the 750GB DB35 drive and it is quiet and it all works well.

Does anyone know what the algorithm in the S3 is supposed to do with respect to recording retention times?

[astrohip]

Have you checked your Recording History in the To-Do list? See if that gives you any clues. Report back. :rolleyes:

[w2jo]

OK.. I looked and none of the 4 programs that "disappeared" last night from the HDTV program list are found anywhere in the Recording History deleted listings.

[CrispyCritter]

Assuming that the 4 or 5 HDTV recordings that disappeared weren't suggestions (your given info hasn't completely ruled out that possibility), then the most likely reason is inappropriate use of KUID (Keep Until I Delete) on your SPs or Wishlists. The TiVo algorithm is extremely conservative about those. As soon as a KUID appears in your TODO list (eg, for a show that will record in 12 days), space is reserved for it. It doesn't bother getting rid of the Suggestions; it knows that those are firmly under its control already.

KUID is meant only for shows that you really, really want, to the exclusion of anything else on your TiVo. And TiVo goes to possibly excessive lengths to make sure you get them. KUID shouldn't be used for a SP unless you understand those consequences!

[w2jo]

I am afraid it IS something like you describe! This is very bad! My Series 1 will never throw away ANY user initiated recording regardless of how long recorded or its "keep until" status until it had first thrown away ALL "tivo suggestions". As I remember (I think) two of the erased might have been "suggestions while the other two had the yellow dot + exclamation point. I can understand if the "suggestions were delted, but not why the yellow dot + ! were deleted while there were still some "suggestions (50+) available for deletion.

I hope this design will be changed in a future edition of the S3 code so it works like the S1.

I guess the designers were not thinking ahead to the 750GB drives.

Incidentally, I think the 92 HD hours and 900 (basic) SD hours are enough for me for the forseeable future. I was thinking about perhaps getting a second drive when the ESATA port is made operational. But the S3 with 750GB drive will be quite enough (for me) until HD gets more popular with broadcasters.

[CrispyCritter]

I think you're mistaken about the S1; what I've described is the algorithm TiVo has always used. There's been people since the beginning years who have run into this. (The normal situation is that it's encountered when the TiVo won't let the user record any more shows, but there are still lots of suggestions left; I haven't seen anybody before who first noticed it upon yellow dot deletion.) Suggestions are treated as though they were already in a "Deleted" folder.

I suspect it's more of a problem for the S3 in that it has no idea of how much space to reserve in advance for a KUID show - the size of the file will vary and all the S3 is doing is storing the input file. I expect TiVo makes a very pessimistic assumption about the space and reserves way too much (there's been a couple of other people who've run into this already.) I wouldn't recommend KUID on a SP on the S3; too much uncertainty.

[w2jo]

Well.. You may be right. But I have been using two S1s now since 2000 and never noticed the S1 <ever> deleting a user recording if there were some "suggestion" recordings in the hopper. In fact, as I remember, that the S1 worked that was was written up in the manual (?) or somewhere.

I realize the calculation may be a bit more involved with multiple recording types but still, the oldest "suggestion" recordings should go before any user recordings (with any or no KUID setting).

[CrispyCritter]

Perform some tests. Try to schedule a few shows towards the end of the 12 day guide period. If it lets you, and there's no effect on your current recorded show list, then you don't have an "overcommitted KUID SP" problem (assuming you haven't deleted shows on your own.)