S3 Multi-room viewing announcement at CES?

[digitaldna]

Somehow I have a feeling... Let's hope it's true and keep your fingers crossed! :)

[crowfan]

Fingers crossed.

Although personally I am much more concerned about the eSATA port. I'd rather see that enabled first.

Though I'd take both. :)

[kmackenz]

Somehow I have a feeling... Let's hope it's true and keep your fingers crossed! :)

While we are dreaming think the delay in 8.1 is so they could announce it at the show....

[gargoyle999]

Fingers crossed.

Although personally I am much more concerned about the eSATA port. I'd rather see that enabled first.

Though I'd take both. :)


eSATA gets my vote too!!!

[yunlin12]

I'd vote for 8.1, then MRV, then TTG, since I've already bumped my S3 to 750GB.

[kevinv]

I'd vote for 8.1, then MRV, then TTG, since I've already bumped my S3 to 750GB.

yeah but 1TB drives are due out this quarter.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070105-8559.html

Plus costco still has these:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11174913

[nhaigh]

I'm torn between TTG and MRV as my wish. TTG will enable me to get rid of the S2 I have redundantly performing this function with duplicate recordings where as MRV will cause me to buy an additional S3. Economically MRV increases TiVo's revenue stream.

[jlib]

...Plus costco still has these:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11174913Note that that RAID is 1TB per channel (2 channels) and uses an external RAID controller card. Not compatible with S3. You need a hardware RAID solution that uses no controller card.

[TexasGrillChef]

Ok sorry what did I miss? CES? When Did they anounce all this? Did they give an expected date?

TexasGrillChef

[George Cifranci]

While we are dreaming think the delay in 8.1 is so they could announce it at the show....


I really wonder if the delay is because they are concentrating on the Comcast/Cox cable box software deal?

In any case, I want the 8.1 upgrade first to bring it in line feature wise with the Series 2's. Plus I am hoping many if not all of the bugs and slow performance I am experiencing right now on my S3 are fixed as well.

I don't really care about MRV since my only other TiVo I have that could do MRV is a S2 and I have no desire to watch standard def material on my HDTV.

[George Cifranci]

Ok sorry what did I miss? CES? When Did they announce all this? Did they give an expected date?

TexasGrillChef

TiVo hasn't announced anything yet. I think people are being hopeful that they will.

[CrispyCritter]

I really wonder if the delay is because they are concentrating on the Comcast/Cox cable box software deal?I would be very surprised - different people resources altogether.

There was basically no chance of a new major release from mid-December through the first week of January (I was surprised about even 8.01c). TiVo has to devote their support people to getting all those brand new Christmas TiVos up and running. Now that that bubble is mostly over, there's a chance for 8.1 for us.

[lessd]

I know most of you think that Cable Labs is the culprit to MRV but MPG4 (the encoding used on the Series 3 ) is not easy to convert to MPG2 (used on the rest of the TiVo line) I do not know if the Series 3 has a hardware converter built in or the conversion has to be done in software, I just don't think it is a software switch that TiVo can flip to turn MRV on.

These are just my thoughts on the subject, no inside info.

Les

[ebockelman]

I know most of you think that Cable Labs is the culprit to MRV but MPG4 (the encoding used on the Series 3 ) is not easy to convert to MPG2 (used on the rest of the TiVo line) I do not know if the Series 3 has a hardware converter built in or the conversion has to be done in software, I just don't think it is a software switch that TiVo can flip to turn MRV on.

These are just my thoughts on the subject, no inside info.

Les

The video streams coming in over the antenna or via the digital cable lines are MPEG-2, not MPEG-4. The Tivo does not re-encode the digital stream.

[hookbill]

What is CES?

And I vote for eSATA. :)

[tazzmission]

What is CES?

And I vote for eSATA. :)

CES - Consumer Electronics Show in Vegas every year???

[GregComeLately]

Consumer Electronics Show.

[FlippedBit]

Go to the TiVo home page and you can see everything they have announced at CES. Many of the things you guys are hoping they will announce, they announced last year with the S3. You can't announce S3 TTG, MRV, or eSATA without looking really stupid. They are not going to announce 8.1! You don't go to CES to announce bug fixes or even status reports. CES is for new future products.

[tazzmission]

Go to the TiVo home page and you can see everything they have announced at CES. Many of the things you guys are hoping they will announce, they announced last year with the S3. You can't announce S3 TTG, MRV, or eSATA without looking really stupid. They are not going to announce 8.1! You don't go to CES to announce bug fixes or even status reports. CES is for new future products.

True... True...

[Mike Farrington]

What is the status of TiVo's internet-based PPV service? Is that dead in the water? Or might it be announced at CES?

I really don't think I'm ever going to buy a HD-DVD/BlueRay player (until they're $50 commodities). So very few titles of my DVD collection gets more than a single viewing.

[doctord]

Go to the Tivo Home page and watch the S3 demo. The last arrow takes you to the Home Media options. It demonstrates music and photos and then MRV. No TTG though. MRV must be forthcoming or they are playing bait and switch. I hope it's the former.

[kjmcdonald]

Well, if Cable Labs is ok with this:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/atis-tv-wonder-digital-cable-tuner-announced/

I don't know why they'd have a problem with TTG. Does anyone know if ATI does anything to limit portability of recordings?

If this and TTG are ok... what's wrong with MRV?



Also from the this site, this may make a form of MRV possible on a do-it yourself level, albeit with additional expense:

http://www.pvrwire.com/2007/01/08/more-on-the-slingcatcher/

[albrandwood]

[QUOTE=Mike Farrington]What is the status of TiVo's internet-based PPV service? Is that dead in the water? Or might it be announced at CES?[QUOTE]

Probably in the same list of announcements that included XMRadio ... oh wait ... that was 2 years ago now ...

@

[albrandwood]

Go to the TiVo home page and you can see everything they have announced at CES. Many of the things you guys are hoping they will announce, they announced last year with the S3. You can't announce S3 TTG, MRV, or eSATA without looking really stupid. They are not going to announce 8.1! You don't go to CES to announce bug fixes or even status reports. CES is for new future products.

But you can announce that you'll charge $99 for TiVoToGo for Mac, even though you give it away free to PCs !!!

[kjmcdonald]

But you can announce that you'll charge $99 for TiVoToGo for Mac, even though you give it away free to PCs !!!

You have a point in that there still is no free basic tivo to go for the mac.

But at the same time what you get for $99 is equivalent to the $30 you pay for TTG plus, and $70 to Sonic to make DVD's on your PC.

So as far as what's available to be bought, the two platforms are equal.

As far as what's available for free...

-Kyle

[SC0TLANDF0REVER]

What is the status of TiVo's internet-based PPV service? Is that dead in the water? Or might it be announced at CES?

Probably in the same list of announcements that included XMRadio ... oh wait ... that was 2 years ago now ...

@

I was thinking XM woulda been the better choice for delivering music (they are more tailored to my tastes and I have it in my car).
It's sad to think that they announced something with them previously and didn't deliver - TiVo just lost points from me.

Now they are partnering with Music Choice? Uggh!

[CrispyCritter]

I was thinking XM woulda been the better choice for delivering music (they are more tailored to my tastes and I have it in my car).
It's sad to think that they announced something with them previously and didn't deliver - TiVo just lost points from me.This was XM not delivering. Their vehicle for doing things with TiVo got hacked (a fully controlled primary account XM via the internet for money), and XM decided to withdraw from the area altogether rather than fix it up. Now XM is offering a much lighter service for free via internet to people who already have XM accounts.

[Amnesia]

Now XM is offering a much lighter service for free via internet to people who already have XM accounts.A "lighter service"? Lighter than what? Than their OTA offering?

XM Radio Online has fewer channels than their OTA offering because they do not have Internet distribution rights for most of their syndicated content. MLB, for example, has their own Internet distribution for gameday broadcasts and (as I understand it) the cost for XM to secure Internet distribution rights was prohibitive.

[CrispyCritter]

A "lighter service"? Lighter than what? Than their OTA offering?

XM Radio Online has fewer channels than their OTA offering because they do not have Internet distribution rights for most of their syndicated content. MLB, for example, has their own Internet distribution for gameday broadcasts and (as I understand it) the cost for XM to secure Internet distribution rights was prohibitive.Yes. For several months XM was selling hardware that connected to the PC (USB???) so that you could have your only XM account be on the PC. At that time it was a full XM offering (all channels) that you paid the normal XM monthly rate for. It got hacked somehow, I'm not sure of the details, so that people could get the hardware but didn't have to be subscribed to XM to use it. XM dropped the program altogether. As I recall the timing on the connection with TiVo went something like this:
Announcement at CES
4-5 months later XM came out with their XM-PC service.
In July/August it got hacked (or at least the hack became public).
In late August they announced they would be shutting down the XM-PC service and needed to re-evaluate what would be happening with TiVo.

All of this is from my memory; I subscribed to both XM and TiVo and was looking forward to the connection between them, but was waiting for the connection before I started XM-PC so I didn't ever know the nitty-gritty details.

[weaverdrew]

All of this is from my memory; I subscribed to both XM and TiVo and was looking forward to the connection between them, but was waiting for the connection before I started XM-PC so I didn't ever know the nitty-gritty details.
More history here on the demise of the XM-PCR hardware:
http://news.com.com/2100-1026-5330698.html

Given the nature of the XM-PCR hack, I'm not sure why there would be a security issue around streaming XM audio to Tivo boxes. It's not like you can run TimeTrax on your Tivo to capture the audio digitally.

[Amnesia]

Yes. For several months XM was selling hardware that connected to the PC (USB???) so that you could have your only XM account be on the PC.I know all about the PCR---I have one.

But even before the PCR went away, XM had an online offering. It used to be a separate add-on (you paid an extra $3/mth), but they (unfortunately) rolled it into the price of the (OTA) subscription.

But that doesn't change the fact that XM Radio Online was always only a subset of the OTA channels---that's a simple fact of distribution rights. It had nothing to do with PCR software.

[dt_dc]

Perhaps not what you were wating for ... but ...http://ces.betanews.com/entry/BetaNews_Thoughts_on_TiVo_at_CES/1168301757

TiVo's Jim Denney also said the company was working hard to bring TiVoToGo and multi-room viewing to Series3 customers, although no timeframe has been established as of yet. Much to our dismay, Denney noted that only analog and over-the-air content will be supported by the features, as digital and HD broadcasts have certain copyright issues that TiVo has not resolved.If Tivo is talking about MRV / TTG I'm sure mega, davezatz, and others will have more info.

[XBR]

...Denney noted that only analog and over-the-air content will be supported by the features, as digital and HD broadcasts have certain copyright issues...If only Nate could've asked one more question: What about "Digital and HD" content that is transmitted OTA? Is it in because it's OTA or is it out because it's "digital and HD?" :rolleyes:

[moyekj]

Much to our dismay, Denney noted that only analog and over-the-air content will be supported by the features, as digital and HD broadcasts have certain copyright issues that TiVo has not resolved. I've read this several times and it doesn't make much sense. Over-the-air content includes SD & HD digital broadcasts. I would like to interpret as any analog and OTA broadcasts (including analog & digital OTA) which are unencrypted will be supported. I would further infer that any encrypted digital content, including content with 5C=0 (copy freely) would not be supported. I would assume it also applies to OTA re-broadcasts over cable, not just sources from the antenna input. Seems like Tivo would not need CableLabs approval for unencrypted content which is maybe why that's what they are targeting first. While that's not the best compromise I could definitely live with that as an initial release with the hope that somewhere down the road at least the encrypted digital content with 5C=0 would also be permitted. That would equal firewire extraction capabilities that Motorola-based cable DVRs already permit (albeit unofficially).

[cramer]

Go to the Tivo Home page and watch the S3 demo.That's not a "series 3 demo", it's just a generic demo.

Well, if Cable Labs is ok with this:
...
Does anyone know if ATI does anything to limit portability of recordings?Yes. First thing... you cannot buy the card; you can only get one in a certified PC system. Beyond that, they're supposed to have other DRM locks, but as no one actually has such a card/system, there's no telling how well it's actually locked down.

The issue with an "add-on" RF transmitter in the S3 is that it's a) an add-on, and b) outside the box. (B) is an instant killer; CableLabs will never allow that. Aside from that, putting inside the box still leaves (A) and thus requires the unit be taken to an authorized service center to have it "upgraded." (both tuner blocks have to be replaced and at least one DOCSIS cablemodem has to be installed. With M-Card (full CC2.0) support, only one eCM is necessary -- in theory.) Suffice to say, the Series 3 will very likely never be a bidirectional device. (Their engineering efforts would be better spent on an OCAP compliant Series 4. That means a very short life to the uber-expensive S3. :( )

The same kinds of theories can be batted around for the DTV hardware... S1 hardware can function perfectly as a DISH DVR if it were so programmed. All of them can have the LNB tuners replaced to support the new encoding -- but they don't have an MPEG4 decoder... (the S3 does, btw.)

[kjmcdonald]

Yes. First thing... you cannot buy the card; you can only get one in a certified PC system. Beyond that, they're supposed to have other DRM locks, but as no one actually has such a card/system, there's no telling how well it's actually locked down.


Ok. But I doubt Dell will be able to sell many if they have anything in it that stops you from installing another OS or software like a Tivo has.

Once you take a box with one of these cards and install linux, all the world is open to hacking. It may not be easy but there's nothing preventing it.

The issue with an "add-on" RF transmitter in the S3 is that it's a) an add-on, and b) outside the box. (B) is an instant killer; CableLabs will never allow that. Aside from that, putting inside the box still leaves (A) and thus requires the unit be taken to an authorized service center to have it "upgraded." (both tuner blocks have to be replaced and at least one DOCSIS cablemodem has to be installed. With M-Card (full CC2.0) support, only one eCM is necessary -- in theory.) Suffice to say, the Series 3 will very likely never be a bidirectional device. (Their engineering efforts would be better spent on an OCAP compliant Series 4. That means a very short life to the uber-expensive S3. :( )

The same kinds of theories can be batted around for the DTV hardware... S1 hardware can function perfectly as a DISH DVR if it were so programmed. All of them can have the LNB tuners replaced to support the new encoding -- but they don't have an MPEG4 decoder... (the S3 does, btw.)

I'm not sure what part of what I wrote you're responding to? Are you answering my idea of using the SlingBox with a SlingCatcher to get your own MRV?

If so I think I'm missing something. Since:

1)That combo wouldn't be an RF transmitter. It uses Ethernet right?
2)The Tivo couldn't possibly know what's connected to it's outputs.
3)Using it shouldn't require any changes to the Tivo at all.

I totally understand the issue Cable Companies would have with removing content from the Tivo with something like TTG. But I don't understand how MRV even on content with protection bits set is a problem given that:

Verizon offers a STB/DVR with MRV.
The Dell with the ATI card and XP/MCE will be able to send content to 'media extender device'

If one can why can't the other?

-Kyle

[MichaelK]

Well, if Cable Labs is ok with this:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/atis-tv-wonder-digital-cable-tuner-announced/

I don't know why they'd have a problem with TTG. Does anyone know if ATI does anything to limit portability of recordings?

If this and TTG are ok... what's wrong with MRV?



Also from the this site, this may make a form of MRV possible on a do-it yourself level, albeit with additional expense:

http://www.pvrwire.com/2007/01/08/more-on-the-slingcatcher/


cable labs has approved windows drm and real networks helix but not yet tivogaurd.


likely the ati cards will only work if the content is encoded with the real or MS drm's

[MichaelK]

Ok. But I doubt Dell will be able to sell many if they have anything in it that stops you from installing another OS or software like a Tivo has.

Once you take a box with one of these cards and install linux, all the world is open to hacking. It may not be easy but there's nothing preventing it.


...

i think the ATI think is all locked up to vista...

[Justin Thyme]

cable labs has approved windows drm and real networks helix but not yet tivogaurd.


likely the ati cards will only work if the content is encoded with the real or MS drm'sHave they approved it for streaming, but not for transcoding? I don't think they can copy, eg to a cell phone or portable media player. That's part of what the CEA wants the FCC to rule on- that the cableco's are not the gatekeepers for digital content. If the proposal goes through, then when the content guys bless a format, the cableco's will have zip to say about it.

[MichaelK]

Have they approved it for streaming, but not for transcoding? I don't think they can copy, eg to a cell phone or portable media player. That's part of what the CEA wants the FCC to rule on- that the cableco's are not the gatekeepers for digital content. If the proposal goes through, then when the content guys bless a format, the cableco's will have zip to say about it.

dont know- but if you search the opencable website for docs with "real helix" you can see what it says.

I would GUESS that they can transcode as long as you respect the CCI flag that it came from- so if the flag says copy once or copy no more then helix and wdrm must respect that in the copies

But I seem to recall that MS said initially vista would only be allowed to stream?

[BobCamp1]

I totally understand the issue Cable Companies would have with removing content from the Tivo with something like TTG. But I don't understand how MRV even on content with protection bits set is a problem given that:

Verizon offers a STB/DVR with MRV.
The Dell with the ATI card and XP/MCE will be able to send content to 'media extender device'

If one can why can't the other?

-Kyle

Well, Verizon doesn't MRV HD content, either. Currently you use dual tuners. One is set to record the HD version, and the other records the same show but in SD so you can MRV it. Verizon hasn't indicated what's holding up HD MRV -- guesses are that it's technical and not DRM.

Here is Tivo's problem: http://www.eff.org/IP/pnp/cablewp.php

[montivette]

Another CES annoucement via TiVo News e-mail #97


..., we're in Las Vegas right now, giving sneak-peeks of what's to come for the ever–evolving TiVo® service to thousands of people who visit us at the 2007 Consumer Electronics Show. If you're not one of them, don't feel left out: Instead, bet that if you read on, more TiVo tips, tricks, and transfers for Mac-addicts are in your (immediate) future. How's that for kicking off a new year?

Oh, Mac friends...
Yes, the day has finally arrived when we can share this much anticipated news with our most loyal, passionate, and oh-so-patient Mac friends: We've partnered with Roxio to enable TiVoToGo in Toast 8 Titanium, available TODAY!

Yes, you can now transfer your favorite TiVo recordings to your Mac, watch them in a player, burn them to DVD, and convert them for playback on iPod or PSP. Oh, yes. Learn more or buy now here.

And yes, Toast is the standard for disc burning software on the Mac. The new version 8 is truly awesome.

P.S. For even more fun at Macworld this week, visit booth #314 and ask our friends at Roxio to give you a demo of Mac TiVoToGo!


Note there is no mention of this feature only working on series 1 & 2. So either it will work on a series 3 as well, or they are just not paying too close attention to what the say.

We know right now TTG does not work on series 3, and if they enabled it I would have to believe they would mention it in the e-mail as that would be bigger news than the MAC TTG option and make more people happy.

My feeling on this e-mail is they are not being very careful of what they say when they promote the TiVo features. They really should have stated the Mac TTG feature will work only with Series 1 & 2, or just stated "excludes Series 3."

[ReidWings]

Hmm...

A few weeks ago, Tivo DRM gets hacked, so us mac users can make our own tivotogo (Tivo Decode manager).

Now, Tivo finally gives a mac option for tivotogo...coincidence?

How about, someone hacks the s3 to enable TivoToGo? I bet tivo would get on the ball and pressure CableLabs to approve it then. :)

[MichaelK]

Hmm...

A few weeks ago, Tivo DRM gets hacked, so us mac users can make our own tivotogo (Tivo Decode manager).

Now, Tivo finally gives a mac option for tivotogo...coincidence?

How about, someone hacks the s3 to enable TivoToGo? I bet tivo would get on the ball and pressure CableLabs to approve it then. :)

if roxio can create a finished, polished version like that in a matter of weeks I'd be impressed.

[larrs]

I really would love to have MRV. E-sata too.