Help please - Tuner gone bad on a series 2

[mikeandnikki]

Through trial and error, I have determined that the line 2 tuner in the DirecTivo box in my living room has gone partially bad. A number of channels get intermittently pixilated (garbled video and sound) including CNN, Comedy Central, Bravo, and TBS. Other channels are fine. It doesn't matter which input cable is going into the 2nd tuner - the problem persists there. The line 1 tuner has no problems with these same stations (and my other DirecTivo is having no problems at all eliminating a signal issue).

What I am wondering is if anyone knows how I can get this repaired? Anyone had this issue previously and is there a course of action I can take?

Given that the tuner is DirecTv specific, I assume that only they would have replacements - but with their move to the non-tivo boxes will they have any or provide any help (I've emailed them but am not optimistic)?

You guys are the greatest source of help so if there's an answer I know someone here has it. Thanks in advance
Mike

[litzdog911]

I haven't seen any posts here where anyone has successfully replaced or repaired a defective satellite tuner. You're lucky that it's Tuner 2 that's defective because you can still use this DVR as a single-tuner Tivo.

[goony]

You might want to use the search function and look for the word tuner and specify Search Titles Only and only search in this DirecTV Receiver with Tivo forum - this has been discussed a few times before.

[JimSpence]

Check all TPs on tuner 2 and check to see if you are missing the even numbered ones. If so, then it's possible that the voltage regulator that selects the odd/even TPs for that tuner has failed. This is a somewhat easier repair. And, before you ask, I don't know what part or where it's located on the main circuit board. You can check this with a voltmeter to see if you get 13vdc or 18vdc on the sab line,

[mikeandnikki]

Thanks guys - as usual - you are on the ball. I took Goony's advice and searched around (I am still fairly new to the site and did not know about all the search criterion I could specify and so my previous searches had come up with too much information).

A couple of the threads I found discussed removing the s-video output and going back to composite video output. I thought this was strange but figured it was worth a shot. Low and behold - the moment I removed the s-video cable from the back of the box, the breakup stopped. I have now rewired to not use the s-video and have had no problems on any channel for over an hour! :confused:

Does anyone know why the heck this worked? Not looking a gift horse in the mouth but I am concerned that maybe I am just not seeing the problem and the degradation of the tuner is continuing and will eventually completely blink out, I'm just not seeing symptoms any more. The only other option is that the problem exists in an area that affects the s-video output. Any thoughts or experiences?

Thanks again for your help. Based on what you have said and what was in other threads, sounds like if this does go, I might as well just look to get a new box versus fixing the tuner.

Tentatively happy and very appreciative : )
Mike

[JimSpence]

Why this worked for one tuner and not the other is beyond me. Try reconnecting the s-video cable to see if it comes back.

[QED]

A couple of the threads I found discussed removing the s-video output and going back to composite video output. I thought this was strange but figured it was worth a shot. Low and behold - the moment I removed the s-video cable from the back of the box, the breakup stopped. I have now rewired to not use the s-video and have had no problems on any channel for over an hour! :confused: Mike

I read those same threads a couple of months ago. I also read the composite vs. S-video solution but did not try it. I am now wondering if this works due to a collection of dirt/dust in or around that area of the circuit board maybe causing a short/voltage drain. Did you try taking the cover off and giving the innards a good clean?

My solution was less technical. I got a refurbished Hughes unit off of ebay. It was a steal at under $50 delivered. There was (maybe still is) a seller (tivoitcom??) who sold only refurbed Hughes' units. Mine works great. It came with an old software version but forcing a call to the mothership downloaded v6.2. I then upgraded the drive to a 400GB Seagate and I'm happily sitting on a 357 hour unit.

[goony]

Does anyone know why the heck this worked?I've been wondering about this fix. No, I don't think dust & dirt would be the issue.

I need to open up one of my spare DTivos and have a good look around inside... with no schematics it will be a lot of guessing but maybe I can figure out a way to do some tests.

[bILLH97]

I had a Hughes HDVR-2 had the same problem. Bad tuner on input 2. About 3 years old. Went to Wal-Mart and bought new old stock Direct TV Tivo R-10 for $100. My wife hated the idea of a non-Tivo unit. There are several companies on e-bay for geting a refurbished one and changing the HD but decided to buy the new R-10 instead.

Bill :)

[mikeandnikki]

Try reconnecting the s-video cable to see if it comes back.

It's like a light switch - if I unplug the s-video - both tuners work perfectly - if I plug it back in, the distortion happens instantly on tuner 2 (with tuner 1 still operating fine). It's the darndest thing.

I have not opened up the case and cleaned it out (it's 4 years old so there may be a lot of build up). Probably not a bad idea to clean at this point anyway. I'll experiment once complete and post if I find that fixes the problem.

Think I may start looking into the series 3s and switching to cable just to be prepared if this is just a reprive measure and not actually a fix.

Thanks again everyone. 6 hours later and still no problems. At a minimum, this bought me some time to look at my options. I know that DirectTv CSRs would have been useless at helping me and that this community was my only hope. Thanks for coming through.
Mike

[goony]

It's like a light switch - if I unplug the s-video - both tuners work perfectly - if I plug it back in, the distortion happens instantly on tuner 2 (with tuner 1 still operating fine). It's the darndest thing.What is the S-Video cable feeding to? your tv set??

I'm trying to develop a theory as to what is going on... do you possibly have another TV set with an S-Video input that you could replace the current TV set with to see if it still happens? Even if you do, it wouldn't be an easy task to switch, probably.

Don't go to the bother of doing this unless you have an overwhelming technical curiosity about this issue.

[mikeandnikki]

What is the S-Video cable feeding to? your tv set??.

The s-vid is going into my Onkyo receiver which is then heading on to the TV. When I have a sec, I will try direct plugging the s-vid cable into the tv (it's a 43" so it takes a little manuvering). I'll let you know what I find out.

I don't think it has anything to do with this but I have swithed out the original HD for a 250gb one (years ago). I only mention as I saw this in a number of other posts reporting this problem. My guess is that it is a total coincidence but in case it matters...
Mike

[shredhead]

not sure if this is a similar issue...

One of my HDVR2's had pretty jumpy/jittery video coming from both composite and SVideo connectors. Most visually noticeable was TEXT when you'd change channels or look at any of the Tivo menus. Definitely wasn't the TV set because I checked multiple inputs and multiple devices. The problem later went away on its own. My other units didn't have this problem so it wasn't the signal.. Wierd.. Whatever chip controls video output is perhaps about to go bad. The hard drive is making noise too.. If this happens again I'll get my video camera to make up a sample.

[blksnake]

A couple of the threads I found discussed removing the s-video output and going back to composite video output. I thought this was strange but figured it was worth a shot. Low and behold - the moment I removed the s-video cable from the back of the box, the breakup stopped. I have now rewired to not use the s-video and have had no problems on any channel for over an hour! :confused:

Thanks Mike! Your tip worked for me! :)

[wareynolds]

so is/was it just that the svideo was plugged in?

I also am confused on the channel thing, if I have a dual LNB circle dish, with another dish for locals and all going to a multi-switch, would is not be a problem on all channels? It does seem to be on a few things we record. but it seems every time we record we have a problem. If it were a tuner 2 issue shouldn't it be all channels sometimes and no some channels all the time? thanks in advance.

[astrongone]

Removing the S-Video cable to test and confirm that the pixilation would stop solved the problem. I have just pulled the S-Video cable several nights in a row and get good recorded results. :) :up:
A couple of the threads I found discussed removing the s-video output and going back to composite video output. I thought this was strange but figured it was worth a shot. Low and behold - the moment I removed the s-video cable from the back of the box, the breakup stopped. I have now rewired to not use the s-video and have had no problems on any channel for over an hour!

[JWThiers]

so is/was it just that the svideo was plugged in?

I also am confused on the channel thing, if I have a dual LNB circle dish, with another dish for locals and all going to a multi-switch, would is not be a problem on all channels? It does seem to be on a few things we record. but it seems every time we record we have a problem. If it were a tuner 2 issue shouldn't it be all channels sometimes and no some channels all the time? thanks in advance.
If it were a tuner issue, it would be on certain (or all) channels (based on transponder polarity) on a certain tuner (Satellite input). In general tuner problems can be checked by swapping the inputs on the back of the box. If it stays on the same tuner it is likely an issue with the tuner (or at least not an input signal issue). If it changes with the input swap it is most likely a problem with something other than the tivo (lnb, multi-switch or wiring).

In this case the problem went away when the S-Video was disconnected, indicating some kind of interference from the S-vid circuitry when the cable is connected.

For the OP, Did you try a different cable?

[jangelj]

I had this exact same problem. The symptoms (pixellation on tuner 2) started occasionally, then happened more and more frequently. Finally one morning I got up and my tivo had a blank screen and the Hard drive was clicking. So I thought that the HD going bad had caused the pixellation. GREAT! I thought. It's a good excuse to finally put a big (250 GB) HD in my directivo.

I bought a western dig. 250 GB HD and, copied from the old HD (it had enough life left in it for me to make a copy). I installed the new HD and lo and behold the pixellation continued. That's when I came to the forum and saw the posts about unplugging the Svideo. So I unplugged the svideo, hooked up with the rca jack and it worked perfectly...for days...no pixellation.

So I tried some different scenarios. I plugged in directly from svideo on the tivo to the tv (I normally use a selector switch) and the pixellation came back immediately. I went svideo on the tivo to the switch (the way it was originally setup) and the pixellation was there. It seems that whenever an svideo cable was plugged into the tivo it would pixellate on tuner 2.

What i find strange/interesting is that I've had this HDVR2 for 4 years and never had a problem. It seems very odd that the HD would go bad at the same time that this pixellation problem pops up. Is there a connection? (and, yes, I did try 3 different svideo cables).

John

[AaronFord]

You guys are awesome! I just had the same problem with my (3 year old?) Hughes HDVR2. Switching from s-video to composit fixed the problem.

One of the posts I read mentioned something about voltage regulators controlling transponder polarity for each tuner. If this is accurate, then it's conceivable that the voltage regulator is no longer functioning within its ideal operating range 100% of the time and that using the s-video cable changes the circuit current flows just enough to cause the intermittent problems. I know... it's a stretch but it is a plausible theory. It could also mean that I might have a total failure at some point in the future-I'll have to wait and see.

(FYI) Here's what was happening with mine. When viewing channels on one tuner, the images on some channels were intermittently garbled/pixelated (it's been getting worse over the last few weeks). It only happened on every 3rd or 4th channel. After using the TV Line button on the remote to switch to the other tuner, I could browse through channels with no problems. This indicates that it's probably not a hard drive issue.

I went through all the Satellite Signal Strength tests and found intermittent signals (ie. fluctuating from 0 to 85-90) on some of the Transponders for Sat Input 2.
Sat 101 (A): Transponders 24, 25, 28 were intermittent (18 & 26 had zero signal)
Sat 119 (B): Transponders 25, 26 were intermittent (25 had zero signal)
Sat 110 (C) - all ok

After removing the s-video cable and switching to a composite cable, the fluctuating signals were all stable at 85-95% (the Transponders with zero signal were unchanged).

Diagnostic Tip: Someone told me to go into the Signal Strength screen and find one of the transponders with fluctuating signals. While keeping that screen on the TV, swap the cables for satellite input 1 and satellite input 2. In my case, the fluctuating signal stayed on Satellite input 2. This indicated it was an issue with the Tuner, not with the dish, LNBs or wiring.

[JimSpence]

For future reference, those TPs that had 0 are spot beams.

[spudly]

I am having a really odd problem that I can't figure out that is relative to this discussion.

I had a DSR6000 in my living room for 5 years and an it's twin Hughes model in my bedroom for 5 years. Anyway I had a hard drive problem with the Hughes and retired it as got a warranty replacement R10. But I moved the DSR6000 into the bedroom were the Hughes was and put the newer R10 in the living room. For the first few weeks everything was fine.

Now here is my problem: The DSR6000 (which had worked fine for 5 years) which is now in the identicle location as the Hughes (also worked fine for 5 years) is having problem. After a few miniutes of watching it looses the signal from one of the tuners and I get the annoying message. I go to the satellite setup an my even transponders have zero signal. I an change to an odd transponder and get the high signal. But even after I "save" this signal it reverts back to an even one and I get back to the same loop. Why does it like the even ones so much? :eek:
If I change the cables in the back the satellite it looses changes, so I don't think it is the tuner themselves. Any ideas? Any reason why it can't keep a 'good' transponder?

Thanks!
Glenn

[JimSpence]

You can't change the TP that is used as all of them are used. Each channel is assigned to a TP and the receiver tunes the appropriate one for the channel selected. In your case it's an even TP that is needed. Since you are losing all even TPs this means that the 18v switching signal to the LNBs is getting reduced. You have a cabling or connection problem.

[quoc]

My friend gave up then gave me his HDVR2 because of this exact problem. Found this thread when I was looking into the problem.

The problem with this unit is if any 2 (out of the 3) outputs are being used. Any combination of the 1 S-video and 2 composite would cause tuner #2 to go out. Yes, even when using both composite outputs! So my money is on a power supply problem.

[manolodf]

I have the HR10-250 unit and I have tuner 2 problems. Its hooked up via the HDMI to the TV and it happens in waves, it used to do it in the past, then it has gotten alot worse recently. In the past a simple reset would have it be fine for months, now it wont go away. If you are watching tuner 1 you see constant appearance of No signal on turner 2 warning error. If you are watching or see a recording form tuner 2 you just get choppy programming.

[John T Smith]

First, read this entire message thread and try what is suggested about switching output cables

Second, try the specialized HR10-250 Forum
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=36

[roamerr]

Svideo cable removal just worked for me. I have 3 HDVR2's but one of them started pixelizing bad on some channels. I tried the lines to the tivo but the lines were fine. Removed the svideo cable and replaced it with a composite and its back to perfect.

Odd fix but it worked!!

[wolflord11]

There are some who beleive the S Video problem is a design flaw. It seems to be that using the S Video can cause some problems with Tuner 2.

[dmcsween]

I'm reading with great interest the thread about the S video cable causing problems. Sadly, the switch to component did not solve mine. I have the same symptoms, certain channels pixelate in sporadic waves. 501, for example, is pretty much unwatchable. I'm thinking bad tuner, and am looking for a philips DSR7000 logic board. Meanwhile, I have a second directivo box, a hughes, which functions normally.

So then, to the point, will any of you please describe a procedure using my two satellite feeds, and my two directivo units (one good, one sketchy) that will diagnose this as a line/connector/dish problem or bad tuner, oscillation overthruster intersteller overdrive insert-name-of-electronic-component-I-don't understand here problem. Transponder polarity? Tuner one, tuner two. Even channels, odd chanels? Help me Mr. Wizard.

Remind me again who it was that I snowed to give me a job in IT?

yr hmbl svt

Dan

[JimSpence]

From your description, you have a dual output round dish with an external 2x4 multiswitch in order to provide four outputs to two DVRs. Also, you changed from s-video to "composite" connections, not "component".

Troubleshooting tips.
1) swap inputs on back of problem unit to see what happens.
2) bypass multiswitch and connect the unit directly to the dish.
3) use various combination of outputs from multiswitch.
4) try the RF output to the TV.

For info on how this stuff works, check this thread.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=55509

[Beer Geek]

I've been reading this forum for years, but this is my first post, FWIW.

I have a HDVR2 that started pixellating on Tuner 2 almost a year ago. Dropping the S-video only worked until late last year. The problem resurfaced, and I've just been living with it.

Was wondering if anyone had come up with more on the problem. My plan is to get an Ebay'd HDVR2 up and running (maybe hacked, if I can figure that out) and ditch the other unit.

[John T Smith]

Was wondering if anyone had come up with more on the problem
I've read lots of speculation about the root cause... but don't remember ever reading that anyone had a real answer

One of my units decided a few months ago to stop sending a video signal out the coax port to the Tv... which I fixed by using the 3-wire RCA connector and changing the input location on the Tv

Sometimes, electronic components just stop working

[wolflord11]

I still believe the S Video Problem is a design flaw in the Dual Tuner.

[Beer Geek]

Yeah, I just remember someone was going to check voltages at various places on the board and see if he could tell what was failing.

Thanks for the update!

[DevilDogs]

I had the same problem with pixelation on one tuner. I posted this:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=5263759

John T Smith pointed me to this thread. I tried removing the S-Video cable, and it worked! I'm curious to see how long it lasts, since it looks like Beer Geek has had it reappear.

[cr33p]

Hello everyone, I wanted to see if someone could shed some light on a problem I am experiencing, I have an HR10-250 with HD access, sometimes when I am watching an HD channel on tuner 1 my machine will tell me searching for signal on tuner 2, I tried swapping the lines on the rear of the box and it exhibits the same problem on now it says searching for signal on sat 1, this should confirm that it isnt the box right? This must be a wiring or sat problem correct? The weird thing is that it only happens when I am watching an HD channel, not on the SD channels

[jangelj]

My HDVR2 is still exhibiting the same problem. Pixellation on tuner 2 when s-video plugged in. Has anyone tried simply swapping out the power supply to see if that may be the problem?
John

[txhawkeye]

Here is another data point in problems experienced with tuner 2:

I, too, have been having picture breakup problems that I isolated to tuner 2, but I do not use s-video. However, I do use both composite video outputs. I found that my problems went away when I disconnected the cables from one of the outputs. So in my case, the problems have to do with driving both composite outputs.

My DirecTivo is an older Samsung unit. I had been using both video outputs for a long time before the problems began. Not sure why the problems began - power supply weakening over time? other?

I'm just thankful I found a way to get around the problems.

[bparks]

I'll add a data point too. We have three old DTivos that have been working well for years. The Hughes GXCEBOTD and DirecTV DVR R10 are behaving well, but the RCA DVR40 has been experiencing the Sat 2 input problem for several months. It had become increasingly annoying so today, after finding the posts on manipulating output cables, I did a little troubleshooting.

Both composite video outputs are connected. S-video is not being used. When either one of the composite video outputs is disconnected, the Sat 2 problem goes away. So, I will use only one output for now. If a fix turns up later in this forum, maybe I can restore full functionality.

This forum is awesome. It's helped me a number of times in the past. Thanks.

[txhawkeye]

I've learned a little more about my tuner 2 problem. I still have problems even with only 1 composite video connection, depending on the transponder tuner 2 is receiving from. I'm still checking, but so far I've found I get pretty significant problems for channels on transponders 8, 9, 16, 17, 24, 25, and 27. Channels on other transponders seem have little, if any, problems.

I should also point out that the problems become much worse on all transponders when I use the second composite video connection. When I use a single composite video connection, it does not matter which one I use - problems occur with the transponders in the above list.

Tuner 1 is clean as a whistle with either 1 or 2 composite video connections on all transponders.

So, all is not perfectly well with tuner 2 in my case - even when using a single composite video connection...

I'm curious whether any of you who've had problems with multiple video connections (s-video + composite video or 2 composite video) and corrected it by using only a single video connection still have problems when recieving from certain transponders?

[bparks]

... I'm curious whether any of you who've had problems with multiple video connections (s-video + composite video or 2 composite video) and corrected it by using only a single video connection still have problems when recieving from certain transponders?

Changing from two composite video outputs to one made a big difference for me. However, I found I still had some digital garble on some channels. The problems are with transponders 15, 23, 25, 27, and 32 (there may be more but I stopped checking after awhile). The signal strength on each looks fine. I found I could clean up the channel by switching to the other tuner, though I tried this in only a few cases so I don't know if this will always work.

... I've found I get pretty significant problems for channels on transponders 8, 9, 16, 17, 24, 25, and 27

Transponders 8, 9, and 24 seemed to look clean on the channels I checked.

[starbuck]

Here is another data point in problems experienced with tuner 2:

I, too, have been having picture breakup problems that I isolated to tuner 2, but I do not use s-video. However, I do use both composite video outputs. I found that my problems went away when I disconnected the cables from one of the outputs. So in my case, the problems have to do with driving both composite outputs.
I had similar problem that has been driving me crazy with my HDVR2. I had serious pixelization and frozen picture mostly on channel 245 (TNT). It was not watchable. Also had a little problem on channel 202 (CNN).

I swapped out cables trying to solve problem. I previously was using the S-video and 2-audio on the second set of connectors, and also using the composite audio/video on the first set of connectors. Nothing seemed to fix the problem.

After a few hours of frustration, I was going to replace a composite cable to see if it was bad. As soon as I unplugged the RCA video, the screen cleared up.

So now I'm using only the S-video and RCA audio on the second set of connectors and nothing on the first set of connectors. So far so good with picture quality. But I miss not being able to use the other connections going to input of my DVD recorder.

[msbrook2]

Like so many of you I seem to be having the problem with Tuner 2. I disengaged the S video and it seems to have cleared up. I was just wondering if most of you are finding this a temporary fix. I read a few entries that indicated the problem came back again later...just wondering if I should go through the hassel of finding another box or if this will take care of it for the long haul.

[jangelj]

Well, here's how it is working for me. First, I was using the svideo and composite both. When the pixellation started, I thought it was the hard drive, so I upgraded that. It still pixellated. So i read the forums, unplugged my svideo and used both composite connections instead. It worked well for several weeks, then slowly started to pixellate again.
So I unplugged the 2nd composite connection and it has been working fine for awhile (at least 6 months). I keep meaning to replace the power supply, but I just haven't had the time (yeah, yeah, whatever).

[o2manyfish]

I wanted to add to this, as it's just strange and hopefully someone will have a solution.

I have had my HDVR since they were first available. It has sat on top of my TV mounted to the ceiling since the start. My connections have always been SVHS, SPDIF Audio (To Rcvr) and Analog Audio to the TV.

Other than changing a SPDIF cable -- Don't be shocked turns out you can't step on them to try to reach a little higher :) - All cables and configuration is the same.

My Sat 2 input started the macro blocking. First think I did was switch 1 and 2 - before going up on the roof -- Smart move.

Then when that didn't help I took it outside, popped the talk, and let compressor do the Wildthang all over the inside.

Back inside and the same issue.

I read these threads and didn't think they applied because certain channels are always perfect and certain channels were fading.

But Last weekend I unplugged my svhs and plugged in my composite -- And the problem went away in a couple of seconds. Back and forth a couple of times just confused the heck out of me.

I can leave the sVHS cable plugged into the HDVR2 but as soon as the other end connects to the tv - The audio drops and the pic goes away.

This situation makes little sense to me. And someone should be able to spot some silly little 17 cent resistor which has degraded... It just doesn't make sense.

Anyone with a hypothesis - Let me know -- I have a soldering Iron and I am not afraid to use it.

Dave B

[msbrook2]

When it rains...

Our second HDVR2 has just started having the same pixleation issue the firt one had. Interesting thing...we bought this receiver about 1 year after the first one and it was about a year ago our first receiver started having problems (we temporarily went to the R15 provided by Direct TV - bit mistke!!). So I'm beginning to think these units, like most other computer equipment have a limited life span.

Unique thing on this one is, it is not set up with dual reception, so the problem is occuring on Sat 1. I've unplugged the Svideo cable and plugged in the composite. We'll see if that takes care of the problem..at least until our contract with Direct TV is up!! Here's hoping...

[waynenm]

I haven't posted here in some time, but have recently been experiencing the same pixelation issues. Yanked the S cable per many others' suggestions, rebooted, and things
are definitely improved. Strange solution, but a solution nonetheless. Currently running the two RCA outs. If things go back to bad, I'll run one RCA out and split it. And, if that doesn't work, time for another HR20. I love Tivo. But HD beats SD, and cable's not my friend. Thanks to all who found a pixelation solution for these older HDVR2s.

[waynenm]

So, I've now done what I said in my previous post. Using a simple Radio Shack a/v splitter.
So far, so good. No pixelation on tuner 2. Anyone else dealing with this?

[heltzer99]

Long time reader, first time poster....

I'm having the pixelation problem on Sat2, but I'm only using one composite output. My hughes is about 5 years old, and it has been "upgraded". I've lost one HD in this unit, but other than that no problems. My second HDVR-2 is the same age, upgraded, and working perfect.

I've tried every combination of composite video and tuner selection. No, I don't have S-video on this TV to check to see if using just the s-video works. I will have to take it the other TV. I'm just surprised that I haven't read a post of anyone using just one composite output and having this problem.

Any thoughts?

I'm thinking of just buying an Ebay HDVR-2 and swapping the HD for a quick fix...

[waynenm]

Well, what I've been doing is working well.
Yank everything but one output, and split it.
You should see immediate results.

[jfischer]

I'm having the same issues with the 2nd tuner on my HDVR2. I get fairly good results by removing the S-Video output, but still not 100% perfect. However, I was running both S-Video, L/R analog, and the full composite V/L/R before.

I decided to crack the unit open and measure voltages to the LNBs under load, and got these results when tuned to Transponder 24 on 119.

Tuner 1: 19.45 volts
Tuner 2: 19.26 volts

Even with the S-Video cable attached, the voltage did not drop on Tuner 2, nor did it appear to drop or spike. However, when I reattached the S-Video cable the signal on Tuner 2 (xponder 24, 119) started going from 85 to 0 and back again rapidly. At the same time, I could discern absolutely no fluctuation in the voltage to the LNB on Tuner 2.

I doubt the voltage signal requires much current, but that's something I can't measure quite as easily as voltage. In any event, there appears to be a strong correlation between the number of outputs connected and the performance of Tuner #2.

[waynenm]

Wow. That is really something.

[markbox]

Just in the last two weeks I've been having the SAT2 pixilation issue. Found this thread (thanks search function!) and unhooked the S-VHS connection on the back of the unit. The pixilation remained. I then unhooked the left/right audio connectors that were being used with the S-VHS connection and the pixilation went away.

However, after 20 minutes of no pixilation I hooked the l/r audio connections back up and no pixilation. I then hooked up the S-VHS connection by itself (unhooking the l/r audio) and the pixilation returned. Seems to be an internal electrical issue of some kind.

When connecting and disconnecting SAT2 I was annoyed by the close proximity of the S-VHS connector which made it harder to loosen/tighten the coax cable. I have not opened the box to check the circuit board visually but perhaps the fact these inputs are crammed together is part of the problem (aka a design problem). This is a Hughes SD-DVR40. Does everyone else have the SAT2 and S-VHS inputs crammed right next to each other?

Crazy situation but thanks to this great forum for a workable solution.

[RARamaker]

I'm having the exact same problem - pixelation on Sat 2. I was using S-Video and per this thread, switched to Component. Went from severe pixelation to moderate pixelation. Some pixelation also is occurring on Sat 1.

It's great to know that I'm not alone.

Russ

[Marc]

I finally disconnected my HDVR2 as I was having pixellation problems (ranging from annoying to making the program unwatchable) on a composite-only connection. I replaced it with a spare SD-DVR80 I had lying around (fortunately!), but of course, I'm worried that it'll only be a matter of time before this unit starts experiencing the same symptoms, and by then I'll have run out of Series2 DirecTiVos.

I've got the DirecTV protection plan, so I could get them to replace the unit, but then I'd be stuck with an R15, and my 70+ Season Passes and WishLists wouldn't be happy.

[ecotsonas]

Hello,
I firmly believe that this is a software problem, (6.3e-01-2-151).

If you are having problems with your HDVR2 signal breaking up ONLY on satellite 2 and you are using an s-video cable try these steps to confirm:

1. Put it on channel 201.
2. Test your satellite signal strength. (You should be on transponder 23)
3. You should see satellite 1 signal stay constant and satellite 2 signal will drop down to "no signal"
4. Pull the s-video cable and use a composite cable. This time the satellite 2 signal will remain constant, (it won't drop).

Now for proof that it is a software problem.
1. My HDVR2 is running version 6.3e-01-2-151 (satellite 2 breaking up)
2. I borrowed a friends HDVR2
3. I plugged the borrowed HDVR2 into the same satellite lines
4. Re-married my original card to the new tivo box
5. Dialed out to get any updates
6. Repeated the steps above to test signal strength
7. No problems. Satellite 2 has a constant signal.
8. The software version of this tivo is 6.2a-01-2-351

Further proof that this is a software problem.
My parents also have an HDVR2 box where satellite 2 is breaking up. Their tivo software version is also 6.3e-01-2-351. I walked them through the confirmation steps to visually see that only satellite 2 signal is dropping off.

I hope that this helps all of you who have been extremely frustrated lately thinking that you have a bad tuner 2.

Erik

[Beer Geek]

That'd be a sweet explanation- if my HDVR2 hadn't started pixellating on the 2nd tuner over a year ago, since 6.3 only showed up a few weeks ago.

[Marc]

Now for proof that it is a software problem.
That doesn't prove it's a software problem. That proves it's on one box running 6.3a and not on a different box running 6.2a. Since you tested different hardware, you can't be sure whether the test shows that the hardware is at fault or the software.

My HDVR2 was still running 6.2a when I deactivated it a couple of weeks ago and it had the pixelation problem. It was bad enough that I finally shut it off and replaced it with a DVR80 I had lying around.

[ecotsonas]

I wanted to post my findings about the particular software versions to see if others have the same problem on the same version, (or have found this same problem on another version). I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden all of these HDVR2's have started failing ONLY on tuner 2 all roughly around the same time. I still believe that there is a high probability that it is software related. Unfortunately just dialing out doesn't get the 6.3e version.

[markbox]

I've got a hardisk with 6.3e and another with 6.2a.
Both have the pixilation problem that goes away
if I unplug the S-VHS/L/R connection and go with
only the standard composite video/L/R connection.

However, my problem appeared shortly after the
release of 6.3e so perhaps the release of 6.3e
included a corresponding change to the guide data
or other info on the sat network that is also
causing the 6.2a software to have the same glitch.

[notimefortv]

My Tivo started acting up when I got a message that the software had been updated. I have tried putting in a new hardrive (thanks instantcake) but the problem persisted. I was ready to give up, read this forum, removed my SVIDEO cable and no more problems!!!!! Obviously the new software does not work with SVIDEO. Direct TV support tried to get me to pay for a $70.00 service call, $20 for a refurbished unit and a 2 year service committment. I did not want to be roped into a commitment, as I am considering switchin to Dish HDTV. Thankyou forum!!

[PrimeRisk]

Well, I wish this issue was as simple as a software problem. All of my SD DTiVos (7) are Zippered and locked at version 6.2-01-2-321.

One of my DSR7000s has recently developed this issue. I first thought the HDD had gone south, most pixelation issues I've dealt with involved HDD issues. True to course, if I yank the S-Vid all is well, plug it back in and it reappears almost immediately. I'm hoping that I won't see further degradation as I need to use both composite outputs in my current config. If I do see further problems I'll swap out a power supply with one of the other fully functional DTiVos and report the results back here.

[OhioUmpire]

I have an HDVR2 if anyone is insterested in purchasing it. Someone might as well get some use out of it. Priv Msg me if you are interested.

[rbtravis]

Through trial and error, I have determined that the line 2 tuner in the DirecTivo box in my living room has gone partially bad. A number of channels get intermittently pixilated (garbled video and sound) including CNN, Comedy Central, Bravo, and TBS. Other channels are fine. It doesn't matter which input cable is going into the 2nd tuner - the problem persists there. The line 1 tuner has no problems with these same stations (and my other DirecTivo is having no problems at all eliminating a signal issue).

What I am wondering is if anyone knows how I can get this repaired? Anyone had this issue previously and is there a course of action I can take?

Given that the tuner is DirecTv specific, I assume that only they would have replacements - but with their move to the non-tivo boxes will they have any or provide any help (I've emailed them but am not optimistic)?

You guys are the greatest source of help so if there's an answer I know someone here has it. Thanks in advance
Mike
Try this:
http://www.ccscorporation.net/
they fix TiVos and Directv TiVo's series 2

[jap3]

I've been searching for someone to describe the problem that my HDVR2 is having and this thread comes close, but not exact. Here's what's happening:

No matter which tuner or which channel, locals or the classic "cable" channels, I get a video problem akin to something like bad tracking on a VCR. My video is jumpy. If I pause at certain points, the video scrolls on the screen like the vertical hold is messed up. Some times it's fine with certain camera angles. Other times the video is garbled. It's fine in the same places with an 8 second replay and garbled in the same also.

I've tried swapping the SAT IN cables. I have a HR10-250 with no problems at all. Tried swapping cables with that. I've tried using composite instead of SVideo. Tried different inputs on my TV, both SVIDEO and composite. Tested the SV and composite on the tv with different devices, no problem with the TV. Tried the Tivo on a different TV, same problem.

Is there anything else I can do? Anyone know what the problem is? A push in the right direction would be appreciated if it's been answered already, I just can't find it yet.

Thanks in advance.

[Bob3k]

Hello,
I firmly believe that this is a software problem, (6.3e-01-2-151)...

It definitely isn't a software issue, I had a hard drive with 3.1.1e on it and it still had the same exact problem.

Also, I didn't see anyone mention this exactly but when I left my svideo cable plugged into the tivo, and unplugged it from my tv, the problem went away. So the signal, not the cable being plugged in, is the issue.

Other than never using svideo again, or someone mentioned replacing the power supply, has anyone else resolved this issue?

[LeftBrain]

I just finished replacing my power supply and have the same pixelation problems. It could be that the power supply I purchased has the same defective qualities as my old power supply (possible, I bought it off ebay to save $40). But more likely the problem lies with the motherboard. Very frustrating indeed!

[patonenow]

I deal with CCS a lot and they fix the receivers properly and do a great job. And not real expensive. They do a complete repair for $100 and that incluides both tuners as well as rest.
If you notice the s-video outputs are near what I will call a "hot spot" and that is why you may get the problems you have. Someone techinal could explain what I call a "hot spot" better and name it.

[pauldtaz]

Hello,
I firmly believe that this is a software problem, (6.3e-01-2-151).

If you are having problems with your HDVR2 signal breaking up ONLY on satellite 2 and you are using an s-video cable try these steps to confirm:

1. Put it on channel 201.
2. Test your satellite signal strength. (You should be on transponder 23)
3. You should see satellite 1 signal stay constant and satellite 2 signal will drop down to "no signal"
4. Pull the s-video cable and use a composite cable. This time the satellite 2 signal will remain constant, (it won't drop).

Now for proof that it is a software problem.
1. My HDVR2 is running version 6.3e-01-2-151 (satellite 2 breaking up)
2. I borrowed a friends HDVR2
3. I plugged the borrowed HDVR2 into the same satellite lines
4. Re-married my original card to the new tivo box
5. Dialed out to get any updates
6. Repeated the steps above to test signal strength
7. No problems. Satellite 2 has a constant signal.
8. The software version of this tivo is 6.2a-01-2-351

Further proof that this is a software problem.
My parents also have an HDVR2 box where satellite 2 is breaking up. Their tivo software version is also 6.3e-01-2-351. I walked them through the confirmation steps to visually see that only satellite 2 signal is dropping off.

I hope that this helps all of you who have been extremely frustrated lately thinking that you have a bad tuner 2.

Erik


I have exactly the same problem.
Ever since I got 6.3e, tuner 2 breaks up on channels over 200.
Did the above test and got the same breakup on 201 and transponder 23 signal goes on and off.
Unplugging S video doesn't change anything.

[Tim Weaver]

I had this problem with a Samsung SIR-S4080R unit and lived with it for aobut a month before I was able to understand what was happening. I sent it to CSS Corporation (800-354-3114) for repair. I had it back in less than a week and it is now working fine. They charged $100 including return shipping. It was a great service experience!

[jonceramic]

Well, I wish this issue was as simple as a software problem. All of my SD DTiVos (7) are Zippered and locked at version 6.2-01-2-321.

One of my DSR7000s has recently developed this issue. I first thought the HDD had gone south, most pixelation issues I've dealt with involved HDD issues. True to course, if I yank the S-Vid all is well, plug it back in and it reappears almost immediately. I'm hoping that I won't see further degradation as I need to use both composite outputs in my current config. If I do see further problems I'll swap out a power supply with one of the other fully functional DTiVos and report the results back here.

I've been having the same issues, and blaming 1. 6.3e 2. Dish position slipping(?) 3. HD going bad or some other mysterious issue.

Well, I've got my HD upgrade running in the basement (HDVR2 upgraded to 120, and now getting a 200Gig). And I see 6.3f is coming (someday.) And, my Dish position isn't that bad (worst is 60%, most at 90%.)

And then I find this thread.

And, since I'm upgrading the HD, I have the case off. And, I gotta say, as a victim of the Apple iBook video chip separation (google "ibook fire video repair") and as an amateur vintage arcade enthusiast, I think we have a likely classic case of some solder gone bad folks.

Those satellite cables are thick and heavy. My WAG guess? Thats enough weight and enough time has flexed the boards, and there's a solder trace somewhere that is shorting. And the S-video is directly next to #2. The s-video in or out is probably just a way to add or lose pressure that fixes the intermittent short. (Hence reports of it only working for a while.)

This damn board is locked in with twisted metal tabs and torx screws. And even if I pulled it up, it's got teeny tiny traces that my craptastic soldering skills are powerless against.

And so, cudos and $'s to those folks at CCS who've figured out just what is breaking, how to take the boards out, and how to solder them back properly (if that's what the problem actually is).

I just have to decide how long I want to live with either a. composite vs. s-video or b. all my kid's shows being f'd up. :confused:

Jon

[Woodenspoke]

I had the S video Jack hooked up to a DVD Recorder and it just died, so I cannot get a signal on the S video jack on anything. RCA model Direct Tivo. Just realized the jack is garbage as are the connections to the board for that jack. Broken what do you expect I just use the RCA cable video jack.

I also had a crew in here replacing my HD Tivo HR10 with the HD HR21 at no charge. I was not able to get my two RCA's swapped for free only an HD to HD free swap. But the repair guy said if one of my RCA units was broken they would upgrade you for free. I suggest giving them a call tell them no picture or pictures breaks up. When the Sat guys arrive reattach the S video cable. FYI they will also change out the ant for free. Besides at some point they have to replace all the old Tivo units anyway. These installers don't give a hoot what they do as long as they are told to do it.

After one day I find the new system is OK but not as easy as the Tivo software; but I love all the HD stations. The new box also works with a standard TV so you don't have to have all the latest gear but a. One major drawback is you cannot run a separate off air antenna through the box and no coax connectors out but I always used the TVs input anyway, Plus caller Id on screen. Also has Ethernet that will connect to the network but serves no function yet. But it has been only one day so I have much to figure out.

has standard s video and yellow RCA outputs for older TVs as well as one RGB and one HDMI out so it pretty much is universal for any TV built in the last 10 years.

Give them a call see if they will do a swap for free worst case is they say no and use continue to use he yellow video jack. I would not mention this works.

GB

[tedrodgerscpa]

Hey, brand new poster here, but I wanted to share my experience with the S Video / missing transponders experience.

My situation was identicle to the OP, and thanks to everyone's advice here, I am back up and running by simply switching from S Video to Composite. So, to all that helped troubleshoot this problem, I humbly give thanks!

Best,

Ted

[mikesmithfl]

Ok - conspiracy theory alert!

How 'bout this: Both tuners use software to handle the video output through the gizmo (tech talk for the whatchamacallit) that feeds the S-video out as well as the composite out. The S-video is dramatically better than composite, even on an analog TV.

In order to demonstrate how much better the HD is than SD on S-video, the algorithm for the output signal sent to the S-video jack uses a lower signal to noise ratio now than it did before. The firmware for processing the output might be independent of the software that runs the DVR... Just a theory. ;-)

Now, what about the OPEC conspiracy to use ...

[PrimeRisk]

Ok - conspiracy theory alert!

Seen an Amero recently?

[llurgy]

I was having terrible pixel problems on TNT and Bravo on my R10 and on Superstation on my Standard definition Hughes.

I have waited to see if they come back but no, they have all disappeared since 6.3f was circulated.

I am still having some intermittent problems with reboots and other stuff but the pixel problems are in the past.

[snickerrrrs]

I'm guessing all R10's are going to start needing hard drive soon, so you might want to consider purchasing one (weaknees.com and dvrupgrade.com for example) . I don't know about you, but my wife was constantly filling up our old hard drive with her programs till we got a new one.

[ALooneyGuy]

OK, for all of you folks who are having the tuner problem, you'll definitely want to read this. I was, and was just about at the point of sending it in for repair when I decided to disconnect the unit and take it to another part of the house and hook it up to a different satellite cable (knowing full good and well that wasn't the problem). After I moved it, the unit would no longer power up. Great, I thought. Now I can't even watch the shows I've recorded that were OK. So I decided to head over to Ebay and look for a used DSR704. I found one, won the auction, and the guy I bought it from was local, and was nice enough to bring it to me and refund my shipping costs. After I confirmed that the unit was working OK, my curiosity got the better of me. I pulled the power supply out of the newly purchased unit and put it in the old one. Guess what? The old unit now works perfectly! The point is A BAD POWER SUPPLY CAN DEFINITELY CAUSE TUNER PROBLEMS! My used unit cost less that a replacement power supply, and now I'm going to take a stab at repairing the faulty PS. There is a website that illustrates a bulging capacitor on this exact PS and how to repair it. That particular capacitor isn't bulging on mine, but one closeby is. Now if I can just find the part and brush up on my soldering skills, I might have 2 working DSR704's :)

[EMUzing]

Hope this feedback helps some one.I have concluded that on my samsung sir tuner 2 started pixalizing when i started using the 2nd composite feed.First composite going to slingbox second composite going to zone 2 video switcher ,svideo going to local room.Using all these outputs caused issues on my tivo.I had to get rid of svideo feed and use compsite and this cured.I would rather use svideo feed but oh well.I was even ok using 1 svideo and 1 composite.As soon as i used 2nd composite problem started.Thanks to all who contributed to this thread....Cole

[Mark Griswold]

There is a website that illustrates a bulging capacitor on this exact PS and how to repair it. That particular capacitor isn't bulging on mine, but one closeby is.

Is this the site you were referring to?

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Repair-a-Hughes-HDVR2-Tivo-Power-Supply/

[DataDoc]

I did the capacitor repair as I indicated here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6521453#post6521453 and I not only solved my pixelation problem, but can use s-video again.

[sh0knah]

I agree that the s-video being connected or not SHOULDN'T affect the recording. But, in a moment of desperation (I was actually contemplating getting a DirecTV DVR :eek:), I tried it.

Short story: it worked!

I was having intermitent freezing on my Tivo for months. It would just hang. I had to unplug it and reboot. I missed quite a few recordings that way. I was seriously frustrated.

Even when it was working, it would pixelate, stutter, etc., so badly on some shows that they were unwatchable.

So I noticed this in the forum. I thought, "That's impossible. That won't make a difference." But I (again, in desperation) walked over to my TV, unplugged the S-Video cable and plugged in the composite cables. (I had them there from a previous device.)

I am now 3 months WITHOUT A SINGLE PROBLEM. No freezing. No stuttering. No pixelization. And no frustration.

[cowmommy]

I had this problem, only I wasn't using s-video and only had one set of A/V cables hooked into the back. I took it apart today and put another power supply in it that I wasn't sure if it was dead or not(it was LOL) but when I put the power supply back in that I had just taken out and blowed everything out with compressed air the second tuner is working again. So I'm not sure if it was just a loose connection or if it's just temporarily working but right now it's working. I'm not holding my breath though and if I can get my hands on a refurbished RCA DVR40 to have on hand for when this one totally dies I'm so going to get it

[gquiring]

I wish I found this thread before I did all this work. My HDVR2 started getting artifacts and constant searching for sat 2 messages. I swapped with another HDVR2 (where I only had 1 wire hooked up) and it had the same issues. So I assumed it was the 13 year old dish or wiring. I bought new wire and ran the cabling to my newer dish that has a HR22 connected to it. I was shocked that it did not solve the problem.

So I disconnected my SVideo cable and it is no better. I soft booted the DVR. Do you need to cold boot when switching to the composite?

[PrimeRisk]

<snip> ...I was shocked that it did solve the problem.

The new cabling solved the problem? Did you mean it didn't solve it?

So I disconnected my SVideo cable and it is no better. I soft booted the DVR. Do you need to cold boot when switching to the composite?

You don't need to reboot to change out the s-video or composite cables.

Maybe I'm not reading you correctly here, but it sounds like you have two different HDVR2s that pixilate/lockup/generally act badly when hooked up at a certain place in your house. Do either of them act ok at a different location in the house?

[gquiring]

Ooops typo on my part. They did not work after the new cabling.

I have two HDVR's but one was always installed with one tuner in the basement. When the HDVR2 tuner 2 acted up in the den I swapped it for the one in the basement. It never crossed my mind that the DVR in the basement was connected with only one tuner and would have an issue with tuner 2.

I opened one of the HDVR's up and the cap's don't look swollen.

[PrimeRisk]

Ok, I missed that you had only used one tuner on the other HDVR2. I've had to replace power supplies on a few DTiVos that showed no indication of popped caps, but it is odd that both of them are acting up at the same time. It certainly is possible due to the age that all DTiVos are getting to now, but it just seems a little coincidental.

A couple quick questions: Are your DTiVos hacked and/or disconnected from phone lines so the software versions are up to date? Some older versions of the DTiVo software seemed to have an impact on tuner 2 occasionally not activating. The solution to this was to power cycle a couple times in place to get the 2nd tuner working.

A few easy straws to grasp at:

Check the signal coming to the TiVo->
You re-ran a new cable, but maybe it wasn't the cable. It could be the multi-switch (either inline or on the back of the dish). Bring up the tivo and and get good lock on tuner 1 then swap the cables between tuner 1 and 2 (on the TiVo end). If Tuner 1 is now at 0 signal and tuner 2 is good, you'll probably need to look upstream. (You may have already done this, but it never hurts to ask)

Check the plug->
Do you have a volt or multi-meter that you can check for voltage drop at the wall? I've run into a problem on a friend's home theatre where so much was plugged in to one electrical circuit that there was enough voltage drop cause all types of wierd issues with a computer and a DTivo.

If you don't have a meter, I recommend going back to the location in your house where you only have one hookup and booting up with a cable only on the 2nd tuner to see if that tuner comes up there. If it does, swap the cable to tuner 1 without rebooting and see if you can get both tuners to work. If it does, you need to look into what's going on in the other location.

If all of those things fail, I think you're looking at a powersupply fix.

Swap the powersupply vs. fix:
I'm handy enough with a soldering iron, but it's still a pain in the arse with no guarantee. Look for a cheap used DTiVo on craigslist.org (I often find them for $25-$30). Once you bag a cheap one on craigslist just hook it up in place (sans phoneline) and see if both tuners come up and let it run for a few hours (you'll get a great opportunity to see ALL the PPV previews). If all is well, then you have the choice of calling D* to see if the TiVo is clear of non-paid PPVs and etc and switch your account on to that box. If D* has a payment backlog on the unit you can crack the case and swap out the power supply with your TiVo and hope that it fixes up your unit.

Of course, if this works you now have yet another used powersupply that could last 20 hours or 20 years, but at least you'd have the time to order a new power supply from dvrupgrade or the caps and try out your own soldering skills.

Good luck, I hope you can get the dual tuners working again. Let us know.

[PrimeRisk]

Well, I wish this issue was as simple as a software problem. All of my SD DTiVos (7) are Zippered and locked at version 6.2-01-2-321.

One of my DSR7000s has recently developed this issue. I first thought the HDD had gone south, most pixelation issues I've dealt with involved HDD issues. True to course, if I yank the S-Vid all is well, plug it back in and it reappears almost immediately. I'm hoping that I won't see further degradation as I need to use both composite outputs in my current config. If I do see further problems I'll swap out a power supply with one of the other fully functional DTiVos and report the results back here.

Yes, I am quoting myself as a follow-up on my DTiVo that developed the pixelation issue a little over a year ago.

Said DTiVo has sadly bit the dust. Not long after I posted the above message I swapped out the power supply from a know good unit and was able to resume using both SVid and Composite. (Validating the theory that the PS was the culprit).

Unfortunately the issue re-appeared in November. Only on the occasional recording, but the frequency advanced over 3 days to any recording where TiVo was recording 2 shows at once; And a couple days later new trick appeared...random reboots and lockups. I pulled the SVid and the 2nd composite to no avail for either issue. I swapped powersupplies to another known good and it seemed to lessen the pixelation, but the reboot and lockup issue continued even after swapping in a new drive with a fresh image. Houston, we have a problem. There was something else terribly wrong with TiVo and it was time for the spare part pile.

Thus started the month-long multi-call ordeal with D* to swap out this TiVo with another boxed refurb I picked up awhile ago. This was my very first DTiVo...from 2002...and as such was the "master" unit on my account. D* apparently has significant difficulty swapping out the master unit when you are grandfathered into an old channel package. Dropping that package is ok, re-adding it again took an act of congress. Getting the price right again was even worse. To top it all, all of my units kept losing locals and the TiVos lost their authorization to record every Monday for a month. NASA is still working on figuring out the billing SNAFU created by adding, dropping, and re-adding all of my services 10x. 6 months at $10 off was called even. We've had smooth sailing for a month now, so I hope that ordeal is over.

R.I.P. Original DTiVo (3/2002 - 12/2008)

[gquiring]

I will try another power source as that has crossed my mind that maybe that plug has a problem. But it is plugged into an APC UPS. Maybe the UPS?

As for the signal I have two dishes one 13yrs old and the other 1yr old. No extra multiswitches. The new dish has a HR22 on it which works perfectly. When I plug either of these HDVR2's into the new dish they both experience the tuner 2 issue.

What I did tonight before reading your ideas was to swap the HDVR2's again since the other one was sitting all night unplugged and is now cold. I blew out the crap in the fan and circuits. The fan was really clogged. When I fired it up no bouncing of 90 to 0 on tuner 2!! But this one gets 100% artifacts on all channels. So I decided to do a clear all. It's still processing.... I think I have two problems, this DVR may also have a bad hard drive.

Version on the hacked DVR is 6.4a. It has a 100gig drive in it because the original drive died very early on about 4 years go. The unhacked one (drive issue) I did not check the version. But both do have working phone connections.

[gquiring]

Some interesting news. I decided since it was 11pm to just let it do a clear all and let it run the night. In the morning I went through the entire setup and for the last 2 days I have not had one flashing sat 2 message. The picture is perfect on both sats, no pixelation issues.

[TXKenny]

Replacing the large caps in the power supply (under the regulator heat sink) has fixed my two DTIVOs (DSR-708s) for around $5.00. These caps are prone to fail over time under continuous heated use. Disconnecting the S-Video cable which temporarily corrects the tuner #2 problem only makes you think the problem is fixed but power supply failure is eminent due to the deterioration of one or more of the electrolytic capacitors on the power supply board. Reciever 2 is the first sign of problems and it becomes progressively worse until the DVR won't startup. At that point you think you have a dead hard drive. Simply replace those caps and everything works again. That's the story of my 2 DSR-708s and thanks to the instructables.com link here that I was able to figure it all out and save big $$.

[Greg944]

We have 4 HDRV2s that have been showing symptoms of pixilation with the S-video connection in use, and none when only composite was used. I recently tried a new power from a well know supplier (we'll see how they handle this problem) and it had the same problem. There was one problem, it wasn't a new power supply. From the picture attached you can see the 0430 date code; week 30, 2004.

So check the "new" replacement, the capcitors might be as old as the one you're trying to fix.

[rbtravis]

Greg944: An old date does not mean the power supply is used. It could have been purchased, sitting on a shelf, and never used. Hence it was new. If you want them fixed CCS corp is the place to fix them for you but some what expensive at $100.00 flat rate with a 90 day warranty. They will fix the power supplies and the tuners. However it is a lot cheaper to use an RCA plug cable instead of the S-Video cable. Its a lot cheaper.

http://www.ccscorporation.net/dss.htm

[Matt310]

Greg944: An old date does not mean the power supply is used. It could have been purchased, sitting on a shelf, and never used. Hence it was new. If you want them fixed CCS corp is the place to fix them for you but some what expensive at $100.00 flat rate with a 90 day warranty. They will fix the power supplies and the tuners. However it is a lot cheaper to use an RCA plug cable instead of the S-Video cable. Its a lot cheaper.
true, but in my experience (as well as many others I have read), that's only a temporary fix, eventually, the problem will increase to the point where it happens when using only the composite connections.

[rbtravis]

Matt310:
I am currently running 7 Directv Tivos and have had none of the problem's you have experienced. But then I keep my TiVo's running cool and clean them out every couple of years. Preventive maintenance does work, and I have had no failures, but I do not use S-Video because I have heard of this problem and have chose not to risk it. CCS corporation has a history of fixing tuner problems as well as power supply problems. The objective of this forum is to get the customer running as cheaply as possible. :) I use the Red, White, and Yellow RCA plug cables. I have never recommended the composite connection. That is your suggestion!

[OLdDog]

Matt310:
... I use the Red, White, and Yellow RCA plug cables. I have never recommended the composite connection. That is your suggestion!Sorry but Red, White, and Yellow RCA plug cables is the composite connection. In particular the "yellow" wire carries composite Video.

S-video breaks this into separate color and luminance signals. Component also breaks the color signal into two parts.

For some reason, believed power supply related, using s-video from some series 2 causes breakup of the signal on tuner 2 and changing to composite eliminates or greatly reduces the problem.

This switch does not always prevent or cure the problem and a power supply repair or replacement becomes needed.

[Matt310]

Matt310:
I am currently running 7 Directv Tivos and have had none of the problem's you have experienced. But then I keep my TiVo's running cool and clean them out every couple of years.!
my machines are well-maintained also and have never been in a closed cabinet or exposed to excessive heat. Your assumption that those of us who have experienced the problem must be abusing our equipment is rather presumptuous, and, at least in my case, quite incorrect.

CCS corporation has a history of fixing tuner problems as well as power supply problems.
you have this part right, they fixed the issue with mine very nicely

The objective of this forum is to get the customer running as cheaply as possible. :)
really? I was unaware of this very specific mandate, I thought the point was to understand the problem as completely as possible so everyone could make an informed decision from all available options. I didn't realize it was inappropriate to discuss solutions that cost money.

I use the Red, White, and Yellow RCA plug cables. I have never recommended the composite connection. That is your suggestion!um, if you're using the "red, white and yellow RCA cables" you ARE using the composite connection :-)

[kruss77]

OK, I've read countless threads on this subject -all of which seem to point to a problem with power/voltage regulation at the connector locations. However, I have yet to see a single thread debating WHY this might be happening (ie: what is it about these systems that might be causing this and why are only some models affected and others are not?). Unfortunately, most of this debate ends once people find a short-term work around (modifying their cabling practices). However, there is almost no discussion beyond that. I continue to be impressed by the all of the exceptional analytical advice that comes through this board, but I’m a little surprised that this all ends with a recommendation to change your cabling strategy. CCS Corporation seems to have figured it out, so I know one of you guys can figure it out as well (based solely upon the quality of the advice I get from this board). Surely someone has a suspicion of what CCS is doing to these machines to fix this problem. The capacitor issue is a good start. But even it doesn’t solve everyone’s problems (some it does, some it doesn’t). I know some of you guys are good with electronics. How about some theories?

[MrAP]

Yes, it would be great if those who are good with electronics can find a better fix :)

[rbtravis]

Yes, it would be great if those who are good with electronics can find a better fix :)
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Repair-a-Hughes-HDVR2-Tivo-Power-Supply/
you just have to search the internet for the fix. For those to lazy to search CCS corp is great on repairs, fix everything that is wrong for a fixed rate. what more could you want!

[MrAP]

you just have to search the internet for the fix. For those to lazy to search CCS corp is great on repairs, fix everything that is wrong for a fixed rate. what more could you want!

Thanks but I was referring to the earlier posts where replacing the capacitors didn't help the tuner 2 problem.

[rbtravis]

Thanks but I was referring to the earlier posts where replacing the capacitors didn't help the tuner 2 problem.
CCS corp will fix the tuner. http://www.ccscorporation.net/dss.htm
they fixed mine :)

[schof]

Yes, it would be great if those who are good with electronics can find a better fix :)

Check the remote filter caps on the main board.

these "smt" elecrolytic capacitors might not be bulging in order to test bad. It is less likely they would. In this case "remote" means remote to the power supply. The capacitors are in tandem with the capacitors that have been mentioned as being a fix in the power supply itself. If either degrades the other will pick up some of the slack and work harder and either failing can produce a similar effect. So if blindly replacing the power supply does not help, it would be an oversight to not consider these other capacitors on the main board that provide the same function (which is to bypass fluctuations in the power supply voltage- ie ac - to ground). In all the research I have done on this problem I have barely seen this idea mentioned, and even then not quite.

Edit: Ok looking at this further I can present a better idea of what I think is causing the basic problem. First, by way of explaining the failure mode, the video filter chip which converts the final signal into both composite and s-vhs outputs shares it's power source regulator with tuner2. Tuner one is on a separate regulator circuit. For whatever reason the video filter chip requires a higher degree of decoupling than it did when the unit was new. Exactly why I don't know yet. Anway preventing the ac currents from the video filter from feeding back to tuner2 is what is required here. This is also the concept of the bypass capacitor I mentioned above. However those capacitors are too far from the video filter to achieve the desired result here (although they might help mitigate it if it isn't too severe- like replacing the supply did at one point). The fact is the filter chip already has it own decoupling capacitor associated with it. So far, what I have done by way of experimentation is increased the value of that capacitor to decrease the impedance of the ac path to ground (that's how decoupling works basically). Note impedance is a function of frequency. The value I used (by chance) yields the result that almost all pixellation (and all the seaching for sat messages) dissappear. Also the signal strength meters stop fluctuating on all transponders and all 3 satellites. The only thing I need to do is to eliminate the last bit of pixellation on the few remaining channels that still have it. This should just be a matter of fine tuning this solution. I might end up cutting off the 5 volts source from the regulator to the video filter and supply that filter chip power from the 5 volt output of the main supply instead (note the way it was designed is the 5 volts for the tuners is derived on the main board from the main 12 volt supply output).
For an indication of how involved I got with finding the source of the problem, I was able to obtain a new tuner chip and I replaced tuner 2 (yeah I know that was a tall order - but I did it). So the tuner chip is not the problem. I might also speculate that replacing the video filter chip might have an effect or even fix the problem completely without the need for any other solution, but that chip is totally unavailable and is a proprietary D*TV design. It would be nice if someone would try taking that chip from a unit that does not exhibit this problem and transplant it into one that does to see if that is the real culprit.

I really do not advise messing with this stuff unless you know what you are doing. Surface mount components are a bit (ok a lot) tougher to work with that the capacitors in the power supply that were shown to be a fix at one point.

One remaining question: how far does this problem go if it continues to degrade? what is the end point? Is there a final fix short of finding and repairing the root cause? I realize these unit are pretty old now but I think I can get a lot of use out mine yet.

If you experiment with alternative parts in place of the capacitor I mentioned they should be sized appropriately and the should not be connected with runs of wire of any real length to speak of. I am relatively confident that a good part of the interference with tuner 2 has to do with radio frequency interference and/or electromagnetic interference caused by induction and feedback of these currents from the video filter circuit. I had no luck adding additional shielding but that may be due to my inabilty to fabricate a precision solution. Note there is an allowance for shields to be installed in the design that were not installed by the factory. Only one out of three possible shields were installed around the tuners. The only one that is present is between the two tuners (on my unit anyway).

update 10/27/2009
I should have added this sooner but I thought I would wait awhile to see how reliable the fix was: Anyway I ended up tripling the value of the capacitor that is the power supply decoupling for the video output filter chip (as mentioned above). that has eliminated the problem and has remained a working solution since the time of the last update I did on this post (approx 8/1/2009). Also I only bothered to check this with a single composite video out connected. I have not checked it with s-video or any combination of multiple video outputs connected. I figured I would deal with that when and if I ever need it. But I imagine it will work as-is. Just to note I had a severe problem with even a single composite connected before this fix was applied.
I would guess the reason it starts off being a problem with s-video first and continues working for a while with composite is that s-video involves two signals being driven simultaneously(chroma, luma) and composite only involves one signal load at a time. Likewise explaining the reports of a single composite working but not both at the same time. A single signal at a time is the minimum load that can be placed on the output signal(s) via the filter chip circuit.
Also the way the board was designed to maximize scales of economy the output coupling capacitors for the two composite video lines are the same value as the decoupling capacitors for the video filter. So if you don't care about having composite video you can remove the two output coupling caps from the composite outs and connect them in parallel with the video filter decoupling cap and see if that allows the S-video to work. I obtained two new capacitors of that value to do my experiment and that's the way it is now (thus the tripling of the value). But removing the two composite output caps won't hurt anything other than not having the two composite outputs available. Of course figuring out where all this stuff is on the main board is half the fun. The other half is not blowing anything up. thanks for reading if you are still with me.

[scorpion11]

Would you be able to provide the reference designators on the PCB from where the capacitors could be removed and the location of where they would be placed to fix the s-video?

[Beer Geek]

It probably only requires a buck or two in parts, but $100 for CCS to fix it was worth it, especially since I'm not an EE. Back up and running via S-video here. Not running 2nd tuner, but that's b/c there isn't a 2nd cable to the room.