HD Video Quality Problem

[Koenig]

I have Cox as my local cable company and have had their HD PVR for about 18 months. While the video quality was good, the PVR functionality was terrible. I got my new Series 3 installed yesterday with dual CableCards.

While I'm very grateful to have all of the TiVo functionality that I came to know and love prior to my move to HD, I have noticed a difference in the HD video quality since going to the Series 3.

The best way to describe the difference is that with the Series 3, the video takes on a lot more of a grainy quality. This really shows up when you are watching sports such as a NBA game. Whenever there is a closeup of the bench or a particular player who is not moving at the time, you can see the graininess very clearly. Also, while the Cox DVR had some motion artifacts, I notice more with the Series 3. This shows up most when watching sports. Whenever there is fast movement, there is a loss of detail at the portion of the screen where the action is taking place. For instance, when a quarterback hands off the football to a running back and he runs through the line of scrimage, its hard to make out the detail.

Could both of these video problems be due to the TiVo or due to the presence of the cable cards?

Thanks.

[minckster]

Did Cox's DVR connect to the TV using a different input than does the S3, say component vs. HDMI? I had different picture quality on different inputs - and used your "grainy" language to describe my HDMI picture quailty - until I had my LCD TV calibrated by Gregg Lowen (lionav.com).

*Edit to emphasize that I didn't have your motion artifacts. That sounds like something that a calibration wouldn't affect, based on my limited knowledge.

[hookbill]

ICould both of these video problems be due to the TiVo or due to the presence of the cable cards?

Thanks.


I think your the first person I have heard of that said the pq went down with the install of the S3. So let me ask you a question.

When they installed your cable cards did they check to make sure you were receiving a good signal? I'm not talking about what TiVo's signal says, I mean did they go to each of your connections and make sure everything was up to spec? If they didn't I would ask them to come out and check that, it is a service call and won't cost you anything.

The other thing I have to ask is do you have your HDTV properly tuned? Is it still on the store settings?

Edited to add: whoops question #2 someone beat me to the punch. :) Just for the record it is possible to tune it yourself there are test patterns available but having a pro is the best way to go.

[minckster]

Hookbill, what about the increased motion artifacts? Is that something that the calibration affects?

[yunlin12]

Some changes in the user menu can affect the way a de-interlacer in a HDTV works.

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/

Some quotes from the end note of the article:

"* Sharp fails in factory default setting of Fast mode; will pass if user menu changes to Slow mode
** This deinterlace test fails in factory default DRC 2 setting; passes if manually changed in user menu to DRC1 or Off
*** This Hitachi fails the 3:2 test in factory default setting of standard mode; passes if user menu changed to Auto Film mode
**** This Sony fails the bandwidth test in factory DRC setting of DRC 2; will show highest frequencies if DRC is changed to Off or DRC 2 setting; TV does highest frequencies with DRC changed to the Off position"

[Koenig]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Minckster: I've been using the same HDMI cable and input on my Sony HDTV with both the Cox (Scientific Atlanta) DVR and Series 3. Regarding recalibration, I will check into that. Perhaps the TiVo uses the HDMI interface in a different way than the Cox DVR and therefore needs adjustments.

Hookbill: Regarding the signal strength, I'm not sure if they verified it or not. After checking the TiVo reported strength which was near the top of the meter, I didn't check question this. Also, I am using a RJ59 coax cable to bring the cable signal from the side of my house to the TiVo. Could this compromise bandwidth or signal strength? Regarding adjustments, your right I am still at the store defaults and was happy with them before the switch. But as I mentioned above, Tivo may need different settings.

Yunlin12: I have the Sony KDS-R50XBR1, which may be covered in part one of that article. Do you have a link to the first part? I can't seem to find it.

Thank you all for your help.

[hookbill]

Hookbill, what about the increased motion artifacts? Is that something that the calibration affects?

From what I know about calibration I would not think so. I do believe that could be a result of either too much or too little signal.

[hookbill]

Thanks for all the feedback.
Hookbill: Regarding the signal strength, I'm not sure if they verified it or not. After checking the TiVo reported strength which was near the top of the meter, I didn't check question this. Also, I am using a RJ59 coax cable to bring the cable signal from the side of my house to the TiVo. Could this compromise bandwidth or signal strength? Regarding adjustments, your right I am still at the store defaults and was happy with them before the switch. But as I mentioned above, Tivo may need different settings.



If they verified signal strength you would have noticed it. They have these nice little boxes that are very good at reading signals. What many people don't understand is too much signal is not good. As far as causing artifacts and such however I can't gaurantee that it's a problem. However I would have them come out and check each connection to make sure your receiving a proper signal. This may take a bit of time but it should be done.

Now as far as HD calibration. If you don't have your HD set calibrated you are not seeing HD as it should be seen. HDTV's are not like the old sets where you just plug them in and go. You are probably running way to bright. When you have your set calibrated you will be amazed at how much better the picture looks.

[jbowden]

I have noticed the same drop in HD quality after removing the HD cablebox and hooking up the new S3. It is very noticable and I am not happy with the quality at all. I called Tivo yesterday and opened a case with them. The tech indicated that there is a fix comming in 8.1 for pixalation and he put me on some list to get the upgrade (in his words) in the next couple of days. I will wait but am seriously considering returning the S3 if the issue is not resolved. For reference, I live in Plano and have Fios TV. I can also tell you that I have another HD cablebox on a seperate TV and the picture quality is much better than the TV with S3. This is a Tivo issue IMO!

[crockett23]

I have Cox as my local cable company and have had their HD PVR for about 18 months. While the video quality was good, the PVR functionality was terrible. I got my new Series 3 installed yesterday with dual CableCards.

The best way to describe the difference is that with the Series 3, the video takes on a lot more of a grainy quality. This really shows up when you are watching sports such as a NBA game. Whenever there is a closeup of the bench or a particular player who is not moving at the time, you can see the graininess very clearly. Also, while the Cox DVR had some motion artifacts, I notice more with the Series 3. This shows up most when watching sports. Whenever there is fast movement, there is a loss of detail at the portion of the screen where the action is taking place. For instance, when a quarterback hands off the football to a running back and he runs through the line of scrimage, its hard to make out the detail.

Thanks.

I to have Cox and have the same problems. Especially on NBA games on TNT. I keep my resolution on my Tivo at 1080 fixed but have tried putting it in native mode for Sports, it seems to help some but any pixalation drives me insane. I really hope that there is a fix in 8.1 and that it wasn't some kind of line they give out.

[Poochie]

Just a shot in the dark here ... are you using the same output resolution with the TiVo as you were with your old cable box? If not, there are a few things that could be going on :

- if the output resolution from the TiVo doesn't match the native resolution of the HD channel you're using, then the TiVo is scaling (and possibly interlacing or deinterlacing) the signal, while your old box didn't.

- if you had calibrated/adjusted your TV for a particular input signal type, perhaps the TV has a different set of settings for another signal type.

I had gone from a Moto 6412 Comcast DVR (set to always output 720p) to my S3 (set to output "native"), and made sure my picture adjustments were the same for both 720p and 1080i, and I can say the HD quality on the S3 is at least as good as on the old Moto. As an added bonus, its tuners seemed less prone to signal loss than those on the Moto.

Set the tivo's output resolution to that of the program you're watching (or "native"), and see if it still looks poor. Or set it to the resolution the old DVR used, and see if it still looks poor.

Another thing, is the Tivo hooked up to the cable in the exact same way as the old DVR, or do you still have the old DVR and have added a splitter to the cable? each splitter creates a drop in signal strength that might have made your signal too weak for reliable tuning. Just another thought (and guess) on my part.

Hang in there, I believe once the cause of your woes is figured out, you'll end up with no loss of quality, and the TiVo experience we all know and love. Hope this helps!

[hookbill]

Just a shot in the dark here ... are you using the same output resolution with the TiVo as you were with your old cable box? If not, there are a few things that could be going on :

- if the output resolution from the TiVo doesn't match the native resolution of the HD channel you're using, then the TiVo is scaling (and possibly interlacing or deinterlacing) the signal, while your old box didn't.

- if you had calibrated/adjusted your TV for a particular input signal type, perhaps the TV has a different set of settings for another signal type.

I had gone from a Moto 6412 Comcast DVR (set to always output 720p) to my S3 (set to output "native"), and made sure my picture adjustments were the same for both 720p and 1080i, and I can say the HD quality on the S3 is at least as good as on the old Moto. As an added bonus, its tuners seemed less prone to signal loss than those on the Moto.

Set the tivo's output resolution to that of the program you're watching (or "native"), and see if it still looks poor. Or set it to the resolution the old DVR used, and see if it still looks poor.

Another thing, is the Tivo hooked up to the cable in the exact same way as the old DVR, or do you still have the old DVR and have added a splitter to the cable? each splitter creates a drop in signal strength that might have made your signal too weak for reliable tuning. Just another thought (and guess) on my part.

Hang in there, I believe once the cause of your woes is figured out, you'll end up with no loss of quality, and the TiVo experience we all know and love. Hope this helps!


Good point, I didn't think of that.

[legendarybc]

The cable company can help diagnose signal strength problems, but first do yourself a favor and run a fresh quad-shielded RG-6 coax to your TiVo. And use nice compression fittings if you are building the cable yourself. Consider this a nice little Christmas gift for your TiVo. :)

[jbowden]

The coax signal is not causing the issue. IMO it is the Tivo software/tuner that is causing pixalation and distortion. I have performed additional testing with the HD cablebox in my other room and can tell you that the S3 output is not as good as the HD cablebox. The TV picture is better coming out of the cablebox. I have tried to re-calibrate my TV but cannot eliminate the S3 distortion. At this point I will wait for the software update and see if the issue is corrected.

[JimPa]

I noticed a decrease in edge enhancement when I switched from the Motorola 6412 with the passport software to the S3. Granted this initially appears as a softening of the picture, but once you get use to it, the Motorola box looks noisy by comparison.

Look for vertical white lines against a darker background to confirm this.

[asjbcarter]

It sounds like you have some issues to correct to bring back your picture quality. I hope it is resolved soon. However, using RJ59 to "carry" your HD signal is like a using a 1-gallon bucket with holes to carry water. Switch to the 5-gallon bucket with no holes. (RG-6 Quad)

Happy Holidays!

[JimPa]

It sounds like you have some issues to correct to bring back your picture quality. I hope it is resolved soon. However, using RJ59 to "carry" your HD signal is like a using a 1-gallon bucket with holes to carry water. Switch to the 5-gallon bucket with no holes. (RG-6 Quad)

Happy Holidays!

Just out of curiosity, what is the difference between RJ59 and RG-6 Quad in terms of bandwidth transmitting qualities.

[Bierboy]

RG6 is a step up from RG59 and Quad is a step up from RG6. Don't know the bandwidth specs.

[ellinj]

Koenig any updates on your quality issues. I am experiencing some of the same video issues you describe. The output from the Tivo looks like poor bandwidth mpeg video. White backgrounds have a glittery background and everything else looks poorly dithered. HD video downloaded on the xbox looks fantastic.

This is with Cox cable via cable card or OTA. Last program I watched, 24 on Fox looked horrible. I get about 95% signal on that channel.

I have had the s3 for about 3 months but due to some life events I only recently started using it. Not sure if I should try and get it exchanged or not, its definitly out of labor warranty.