Only 6 months till my 3 month old S3 is outdated!

[btl-a4]

Got a call from Comcast today wanting all my CC data. Seems they are updating thier system to be 2.0 compliant in my area within 6 months. When or If TiVo comes out with a CC 2.0 compliant box I wonder If I get to pay another $200 lifetime fee tranfer for that one? Guess I'll have to Ebay the ancient 9 month old S3 and get the updated S3.5. Dammit I hate being an early adopter.

[vman41]

My TW system became DOCSIS compliant for Roadrunner 5 or more years ago, they didn't retire the CDLP infrastructure until last summer.

[GoHokies!]

Just because the area is 2.0 compliant doesn't mean that you'll need 2.0 cards I would think.

Either that or the 2.0 cards will still work in devices designed to the 1.0 standard as 1.0 (unidirectional) cards.

By your logic everyone that has a CableCard in their TV is also going to need a new TV. There's no way that the Cable company is going to do that to people.

[kosherbacon]

Don't sweat it. It's been known all along that the 2.0 spec was coming soon. 1.0 will be supported for a looooong looong time. It's not like you're S3 will lose functionality.

[vstone]

Cablecard 2 cards are backward compatible with Cablecard 1, but you won't get the additional interactive features availble via Cablecard 2.

Relax, your system will likely to continue to work fine long until the hard disk fails.

[btl-a4]

I was pretty sure it was going to continue to work. That's why I used outdated, not obsolete. I just thought it was funny that I bought the top of the line DVR on the market, and after 9 months there will be available funtionality that I won't have access to.

[JKay]

J
By your logic everyone that has a CableCard in their TV is also going to need a new TV. There's no way that the Cable company is going to do that to people.

You have to wonder, look what Sony is doing with their new BluRay DVD player. They have been selling HD TVs for years that aren’t HDCP compliant and then they bring out the BluRay HDCP DVD unit that won’t produce HD content on the older HD TVs.

[Wangooroo]

Is the hardware form factor the same for CC 2.0? If so why couldn't a driver update allow S3's to be forward compatible?

[cgould]

Comcast is fixing up their headends and finally actually doing the matching host/data pairing (previously they just relied on serial#.)
This is for THEIR internal crap/upgrades, and has nothing really to do w/ your cablecard compatibility. They never did the pairing right for authorization to begin with, and are now correcting it.
CC2.0 cards don't exist yet, they haven't even rolled out multistream, so...
don't panic.

CC2.0 is a different HW spec than CC1.0, so the S3 can't be upgraded to handle CC2.0 cards... but CC1 cards should still work fine, just won't have the cc2.0 (interactive/two-way features.)
Again, the multistream ("dual-tuner") CC1.0 cards don't have anything to do w/ CC2.0 either. Theoretically the S3 should be compatible w/ multistream cards when they come out (maybe needing a software update.)
Don't let the CSRs get you confused/panicked.

[yunlin12]

I got a second call from Comcast (San Jose) after I had called in and gave them my host-ID. I just upgraded my HDD to 750GB (Weaknees kit) yesterday, and am wondering if I should call in to give them the host-ID again. That shouldn't have changed after the HDD upgrade right?

BTW, 750GB HDD rock! I killed 40% of HDD space last weekend recording LOTR on TNT-HD, and pulled the trigger on the upgrade. Now I got bunch of movies lined up, plus the Northern Exposure marathon that Universal HD is running on new years day. I checked out some of their old shows (like Knight Rider), and it seems that they are re-doing the shows for HD. I hope the Northern Exposure will be in HD as well.

[Jiffylush]

You have to wonder, look what Sony is doing with their new BluRay DVD player. They have been selling HD TVs for years that aren’t HDCP compliant and then they bring out the BluRay HDCP DVD unit that won’t produce HD content on the older HD TVs.

Sony could benefit from this (if you replace with a sony), what could the cable co's possibly gain? If anything just more people looking into satellite.

[JKay]

Sony could benefit from this (if you replace with a sony), what could the cable co's possibly gain? If anything just more people looking into satellite.

Or Sony could experience a little bit of a back-lash from disgruntled consumers, but cable companies could see an increase in the rental of their DVRs.

[Roderigo]

I got a second call from Comcast (San Jose) after I had called in and gave them my host-ID. I just upgraded my HDD to 750GB (Weaknees kit) yesterday, and am wondering if I should call in to give them the host-ID again. That shouldn't have changed after the HDD upgrade right?
The Host ID wouldn't change, but for Motorola cards, the data field might have changed w/ the upgrade.

[aaronwt]

So does Comcast need the host ID? I have been told several times that they don't need it, and of course the cards aren't working for the encrypted channels yet.

[ah30k]

So does Comcast need the host ID? I have been told several times that they don't need it, and of course the cards aren't working for the encrypted channels yet.Depends on which headend system is serving your area. I know that there are certain older Motorola headends that do not require pairing (although even those are now contacting their customers for pairing data as they upgrade).

[aaronwt]

Comcast also tells me they need the info on the card. Not the info that comes up with the TiVo. Supposedly the only info about the cards in their system is in letters, not numbers which is what you see on the TiVo screen. The ID with letters are actually written on the card. The cards muct work since I am able to get the unencrypted channels and they are mapped to the correct channel numbers. And when I switch an encrypted channel I can see the picture for one second and then it switches to the card ID screen and gives me the local Comcast number to call.
I'm just going tp probably have to wait until my third S3 arrives before I think about having them send out a tech. I would rather get this resolved without that since I probably have more info about the cable cards thean the tech will.

[yunlin12]

The Host ID wouldn't change, but for Motorola cards, the data field might have changed w/ the upgrade.

Thanks! I'm using Moto cards here in the Bay Area. It's good to know that. I'll call in again.

[Roderigo]

Comcast also tells me they need the info on the card. Not the info that comes up with the TiVo. Supposedly the only info about the cards in their system is in letters, not numbers which is what you see on the TiVo screen. The ID with letters are actually written on the card. The cards muct work since I am able to get the unencrypted channels and they are mapped to the correct channel numbers. And when I switch an encrypted channel I can see the picture for one second and then it switches to the card ID screen and gives me the local Comcast number to call.

If this is happening, they the need the numbers from the screen that's popping up. This screen pops up when you tune to a copy protected channel, but the card hasn't received the proper validatation message from the headend.

[astrohip]

I just thought it was funny that I bought the top of the line DVR on the market, and after 9 months there will be available funtionality that I won't have access to.

Welcome to life in the 21st century :rolleyes:

I bought a high-end LCD TV, and 60 days later, the price dropped $600. And I'll guarantee you Sony will bring out a better unit this summer, and mine will now be "last year's technology". It's the way of the world (at least our world).

But don't fret over it; think of all the enjoyment you are getting, while others keep waiting to pull the trigger. Waiting for the price to drop, waiting for eSATA, waiting for HDMI 1.3, waiting for Godot. Stop waiting, start living!

[ZeoTiVo]

Series 1 = Series 3

Series 2 = Series 4 ??

[Mythica]

My cable company has already said that any of their digital channels that were added after January 2006 won't work with the CC1.0 cards. Most of the channels are fine, but there are a couple in that list that I would miss.

[Adam1115]

What's with the stupid title of this thread? There are NO cablecard 2.0 devices on the market. Who do you think your cable company is selilng this technology to??

[bareyb]

My cable company has already said that any of their digital channels that were added after January 2006 won't work with the CC1.0 cards. Most of the channels are fine, but there are a couple in that list that I would miss.
Are these channels interactive? If not I don't see why they wouldn't work... Cable companies are famous for giving out really poor info. I'll believe it when I see it and that includes them rolling out 2.0. When have they ever done anything when they said they were going to? It could be two years before they ever get it off the drawing board. :p

[DCIFRTHS]

My cable company has already said that any of their digital channels that were added after January 2006 won't work with the CC1.0 cards. Most of the channels are fine, but there are a couple in that list that I would miss.

And your cable company is????

[ajwees41]

Are these channels interactive? If not I don't see why they wouldn't work... Cable companies are famous for giving out really poor info. I'll believe it when I see it and that includes them rolling out 2.0. When have they ever done anything when they said they were going to? It could be two years before they ever get it off the drawing board. :p


They could be switching to switched digital or something like that that can have more room for added channels.

ajwees42

[Justin Thyme]

My cable company has already said that any of their digital channels that were added after January 2006 won't work with the CC1.0 cards.Cablecard 2.0 features are additive, not subtractive of Cablecard 1.0 features.

Compliance with CC1.0 is not optional. All cable companies with a few rare exceptions must support the ability of Cablecard 1.0 compliant devices to navigate their networks. The only "channels" that cannot be watched through cablecard 1.0 boxes are Video on Demand channels and other rare offerings like switched video channels. But unless your cable company is giving everyone new set top boxes, these features will also be unavailable to most of your fellow cable company customers.

Cablecard 2.0 is not a physical card. Both CC1.0 and CC2.0 refer to specifications that happen to involved cards that look like the PMCIA cards used with laptops, but the specifications do no only have to do with the cards. There are two kinds of "cards"- Either single stream cards "SCards" (what we have now) or Multi stream cards "MCards". Both will support bidirectional communication, and both will support Cablecard 2.0 features. It is the host devices that are either bidirectional or unidirectional. Tivo, MCE Vista boxes, and CC HDTVs are unidirectional.

Cablecard 2.0 spec mostly dwells on features that the host boxes must support.

The Consumer electronics industry and Verizon have balked at these features, such as OCAP. The Spec is not closed. The FCC has not approved CC2.0. Regardless, the cable companies have commissioned Samsung and Panasonic to produce huge numbers of boxes compliant with the CC2.0 spec. These are bidirectional OCAP boxes and if there is no waiver for the integration ban, they will use MCards.

The strategy appears to be to then go to the FCC and say- here- the consumers like these boxes, never mind what Verizon and CEA says, so approve the 2.0 spec. Instead of specifying what they own- the video servers and the protocols needed to talk to them, they seek to specify what the consumer must own in order to talk to their head end servers.

Fundamentally, it is a battle for the control of the user interface of the third party set top boxes. The cableco's want to control it so that premium revenue generating features are presented in the best possible way. So they are very motivated to be very persistent about proposals that allow them to cling to such UI control.

That is what is going on.

Cablecos want to make the consumer electronics companies build a device they don't want to build. They are trying to get people to use their products, but consumers instead prefer alternatives to them. When the people buy the alternatives, the cable companies serve up the pain in the form of poor and unreliable service, instability, and long and painful installation experiences. spread disinformation that they can and are discontinuing support for such Cablecard 1.0 devices.

Horse feathers.

[bareyb]

Cablecard 2.0 features are additive, not subtractive of Cablecard 1.0 features.

Cablecos want to make the consumer electronics companies build a device they don't want to build. They are trying to get people to use their products, but consumers instead prefer alternatives to them. When the people buy the alternatives, the cable companies serve up the pain in the form of poor and unreliable service, instability, and long and painful installation experiences. spread disinformation that they can and are discontinuing support for such Cablecard 1.0 devices.


This is one instance where I'm glad the government interferes. Left to the mercy of the Cableco's we'd all be using that POS Motorola box that Comcast gives away and TiVo would be a fond memory.

[hiker]

For what it's worth...
I got the call from the Comcast contractor UEI who is gathering the info mentioned by the OP. She said that they need the data for the release of CC 2.0 coming 7/2007.

[ah30k]

CC 2.0 devices are the ones that are going to be rolled out when the cable companies need to transition from embedded security set top boxes to separable security (CableCARD) set top boxes. There won't be much use for 2.0 CableCARDS outside of the Moto and SA boxes for a long while.

[Roderigo]

For what it's worth...
I got the call from the Comcast contractor UEI who is gathering the info mentioned by the OP. She said that they need the data for the release of CC 2.0 coming 7/2007.
First, I'm guessing the contactor has no idea of what they're talking about. The just know Comcast has asked them to contact all their Cablecard customers and collect this information. When I got the call (for the second time), I listened carefully and she didn't specifically say "Cablecard 2.0" she just said Version 2 of the software. I take that to mean a general software upgrade in the comcast system - not specifically related to the Cablecard software. What these calls really mean, is they want to start using copy protection - and they need this information before they can turn copy protection on.

I'm amused that theyy told you July. One of the AVS posts said they needed everything by January. When I got my call last weekend, it was February. Now, it's July.

[hiker]

...
I'm amused that theyy told you July. One of the AVS posts said they needed everything by January. When I got my call last weekend, it was February. Now, it's July.
She told me their deadline for getting all the info is Feb but the 2.0 cablecards scheduled availability is Jul. Still am not sure whether it's just for headend software upgrade, CC 2.0 or both... time will tell.

[Justin Thyme]

CC 2.0 devices are the ones that are going to be rolled out when the cable companies need to transition from embedded security set top boxes to separable security (CableCARD) set top boxes. There won't be much use for 2.0 CableCARDS outside of the Moto and SA boxes for a long while.

I repeat- there is no such thing as a physical CC2.0 card. There are just two cards- an SCard and an MCard. One supports a single stream, the other supports multiple streams. MCards aren't available yet, and what everyone has been forced to use since 2004 are SCards.

As everyone here knows, having to rely on two SCards introduces serious errors in installation- (the first one has to be fully married before the second one is inserted). It also allows the cable company to charge double for HD packages, digitial access fees, etc etc.- as if the two cards were in two separate devices.

Anyhow, the MCard spec has been around a long time- it was finished in 2003. If the integration ban goes into effect, the cableco's will need the MCard for their boxes, otherwise they will have to put two SCards in as Tivo and Sony did with their DVRs.

A device conforming to the CC2.0 set of specs can use either an Scard or an MCard. They were designed so that you could unplug one from the S3, plug it into the Moto/SA/Samsung/Pansonic boxes, and they would do CC2.0 features just fine.

What people are calling "Cablecard 2.0" cards are MCards, and actually they are not new, and would have had great utility in existing products over the last two years.

Although the MCards design has been around since 2003, because Cablelabs refused to allow them to be produced, Sony's HD DVR in 2005 had to provide for two cablecard slots, just as the Tivo's S3 in 2006 did, and Vista boxes will theorectically have to do in 2006 since OCURs only support SCards.

As DT_DC has noted, it is no coincidence that MCards will be available just as the integration ban looms and the Cable companies will need them for their boxes.

I think we are all amazed at how lucky those Cable companies are to produce products just in time for such ground breaking innovations as MCards.

[ah30k]

I repeat- there is no such thing as a physical CC2.0 card. There are just two cards- an SCard and an MCard. One supports a single stream, the other supports multiple streams. Uh, I thought 2.0 devices supported bi-directional communications while both SCard and MCards were unidirectional. I might be mistaken on this since CableCARDs are not my particular expertise.

The big cable company push for bi-directional 2.0 cards was so their host STBs could continue to support VOD and other interactive services.

[Justin Thyme]

2.0 devices do support bidi communications. But it is the Host and not the card that enables that directionality. That is what really sucks about the "Cablecard" Moniquer. Practically nothing in the Cablecard 2.0 spec happens on the card, but happens in the host device. So why refer to it as if it has to do with the card? Good question. Anyway....

There is no directionality to the cards. Period. They descramble.
"The media has frequently reported that first-generation CableCARD 1.0 modules are one-way devices1. This is simply not true. " CableLabs Primer on Cablecards (http://www.opencable.com/primer/cablecard_primer.html)

The Host device is what makes it unidirectional or two way.

CableLabs says you have to put in support for Java, in an OCAP operating environment if you want to do two way. There is a bunch of other stuff the Host must do, and those specs are the "We aren't there yet" specs, and nearly all have to do with the Host. Since MCards aren't yet produced, that spec was swept into the Not-There-Yet "Cablecard 2.0" set of specs, but there is no change about what it does.

The physicals cards decrypt. No directionality about them. Unlike the SCard, the MCard can handle up to 6 simultaneous streams, and like Scard, lives on the same form factor PMCIA card with largely identical access protocols and talks through a serialized USB like interface.