Zach (Claire's friend) from Heroes - is he or isn't he?

[cwoody222]

Interesting article about NBC and/or the actor's management backtracking on the character's sexuality.

Personally I assumed he was right from the first episode and it was apparently jarring when they started to go back on that in the story.

http://www.afterelton.com/TV/2006/12/heroes.html

[jsmeeker]

Don't read if you haven't seen the most recent episode.




of course, after the Haitian guy visited him, maybe he doesn't remember he's gay. That is, if he was to begin with.

[dswallow]

From series creator Tim Kring (http://afterelton.logo-blogs.com/2006/12/11/heroes-creator-tim-kring-speaks-out-about-heroes-gay-controversy/):

I am very sorry this has caused concern for the readers of your website. It was certainly not our intention to confuse the issue of Zach’s character being gay. We have too much respect for our audience to do that intentionally. However, it has simply become too complicated behind the scenes to push this issue further with this particular character. We apologize for misleading the audience, and wish that we could have handled things better on our end. But making a TV show is often a very imprecise business. As you stated, Heroes is a big, sprawling drama and there is no reason to believe that a gay character will not be represented on our show in the future. It is my hope than we do, we do it with honesty and dignity. That will certainly be our attempt.

---

Obviously there IS some drama behind the scenes, either from the actor, his management, or the network.

[mmilton80]

This is extremely confusing. When did he come out on the show?

[jsmeeker]

This is extremely confusing. When did he come out on the show?


the first episode.

edit: Oh never mind. I thought you meant when did he first come on (i.e. appear)

He supposedly "came out" in the "Homecomming" episode. It really wasn't him saying something. Rather, a comment Claire made that many people took to mean that Claire knew he was gay.

[mmilton80]

the first episode.

edit: Oh never mind. I thought you meant when did he first come on (i.e. appear)

He supposedly "came out" in the "Homecomming" episode. It really wasn't him saying something. Rather, a comment Claire made that many people took to mean that Claire knew he was gay.


OK.

[GadgetFreak]

the first episode.

edit: Oh never mind. I thought you meant when did he first come on (i.e. appear)

He supposedly "came out" in the "Homecomming" episode. It really wasn't him saying something. Rather, a comment Claire made that many people took to mean that Claire knew he was gay.

what was the comment?

[busyba]

Don't read if you haven't seen the most recent episode.




of course, after the Haitian guy visited him, maybe he doesn't remember he's gay. That is, if he was to begin with.


Maybe The Haitian, after getting fired by HRG for disobeying orders, can get a job working in one of those silly christian gay-reprogramming camps. :D

[busyba]

what was the comment?
From the article linked to in the OP:

But in the November 20th episode of Heroes (titled “Homecoming”) Claire and Zach are walking through school when a rival cheerleader says something about Claire taking the “gay-boy” to the Homecoming dance, and that maybe he should be the one wearing the tiara. Claire punches the girl in the face, knocking her out cold.

Later in the episode, Zach climbs into Claire's window to encourage her to go to the Homecoming dance, despite being grounded. When she asks if he wants to be her date, he says he can't, for “millions of reasons”. He then launches into a heart-to-heart that is both encouraging to gay teens and incredibly frustrating in its refusal to commit.

Claire asks if he can't be her date because of what the other cheerleader said, and Zach says that he doesn't care what she said, that he knows who he is and is proud of it. He's more worried about Claire, who can't come to terms with her own “otherness”. He says, “You've got to embrace your inner freak … the only thing you'll regret is denying who you really are.”

Many viewers took that exchange as Zach's coming out.

[drew2k]

Until I actually read the opening post, I thought the question in the subject was about whether or not Zach was going to play John Connor in Fox' upcoming Terminator pilot!

The answer: He is. Link (http://www.zap2it.com/tv/news/zap-dekkersarahconnorchroniclescasting,0,4391564.story?coll=zap-tv-headlines)

[johnperkins21]

From series creator Tim Kring (http://afterelton.logo-blogs.com/2006/12/11/heroes-creator-tim-kring-speaks-out-about-heroes-gay-controversy/):

I am very sorry this has caused concern for the readers of your website. It was certainly not our intention to confuse the issue of Zach’s character being gay. We have too much respect for our audience to do that intentionally. However, it has simply become too complicated behind the scenes to push this issue further with this particular character. We apologize for misleading the audience, and wish that we could have handled things better on our end. But making a TV show is often a very imprecise business. As you stated, Heroes is a big, sprawling drama and there is no reason to believe that a gay character will not be represented on our show in the future. It is my hope than we do, we do it with honesty and dignity. That will certainly be our attempt.

---

Obviously there IS some drama behind the scenes, either from the actor, his management, or the network.

That's all well and good, but he still hasn't answered the question. He hinted towards Zach not being gay by saying "there is no reason to beleive that a gay character will not be represented on our show in the future." That's basically saying that there isn't one now. Within one lenghty paragraph he contradicted himself by saying he didn't mean to cause confusion, and then causes more confusion. :rolleyes:

[drew2k]

That's all well and good, but he still hasn't answered the question. He hinted towards Zach not being gay by saying "there is no reason to beleive that a gay character will not be represented on our show in the future." That's basically saying that there isn't one now. Within one lenghty paragraph he contradicted himself by saying he didn't mean to cause confusion, and then causes more confusion. :rolleyes:I don't think it's contradictory if there is no LONGER a gay character on the show. Suppose Zack WAS gay, and then the Zack character disappears. Now re-read the quote.

[dswallow]

That's all well and good, but he still hasn't answered the question. He hinted towards Zach not being gay by saying "there is no reason to beleive that a gay character will not be represented on our show in the future." That's basically saying that there isn't one now. Within one lenghty paragraph he contradicted himself by saying he didn't mean to cause confusion, and then causes more confusion. :rolleyes:
He basically didn't explain anything, and did add to the confusion. About all he did convey is that something went on behind the scenes that he's probably not happy about and that maybe something will come up in the future that they'll do better.

I guess it's time to go ask Perez Hilton to look into it. :)

[wprager]

Maybe The Haitian, after getting fired by HRG for disobeying orders, can get a job working in one of those silly christian gay-reprogramming camps. :D

Oh, that made me think of AD when George Sr. went to the wrong Scared Straight session :)

[MickeS]

I for one never took Zach's comments to mean he was gay. It just seemed like generic "be who you are" teenage wisdom to me. :)

[johnperkins21]

I don't think it's contradictory if there is no LONGER a gay character on the show. Suppose Zack WAS gay, and then the Zack character disappears. Now re-read the quote.

Could be, but we as viewers have no reason to believe Claire is going to give up on the friendship that they formed, or that Zack is going to be written off. It's still being ambiguous about the situation almost immediately after saying their intention was to not be ambiguous. Just come out and say it, either the character was written to be gay or not.

I would say that we shouldn't care if he's gay or not, but it does impact his relationship with one of the main characters. Is he just trying to be friends, or does he want to get into her pants like a bad case of crabs?

[bro1ncos]

Does it really matter? Honestly, it makes absolutely no difference to me or the current story line IMHO.

[mmilton80]

Does it really matter? Honestly, it makes absolutely no difference to me or the current story line IMHO.


The kid doesn't even remember being friends with Claire. I agree.

[PeternJim]

Actually, the article blows it by saying that the scene where Claire punches out Jackie (the other cheerleader) for insulting Zach was the scene where everyone thought he came out.

The real scene that did it was the one later, in Claire's bedroom. Zach tells her she needs to be who she is, and that she needs to "embrace your inner freak." She then asks him if Jackie was right and that he is gay -- she dances around the wording of the question a little, but it is clear that it's what she is asking. Zach responds, "I like who I am."

Straight people may see that as something short of an actual coming out. After all, he didn't say that he is gay. But most straight people are used to either completely closeted or completely out gay people.

The way that Zach approached the whole thing is completely consistent with a gay person who is not ready yet to be "out" and may not have sorted out all the details, but is unwilling to blatantly lie to someone close to him. The character is being harassed at school not for "being out" but for things, like the erection in the locker room, that point to him being gay. In other words, he is not "officially" out at school. It also serves, by dodging the question a bit, to signal, "I'm not that comfortable with the topic, don't make me say something I am not willing to say yet, let's change the subject." Which is the way Claire took it.

People who say that this is still inconclusive need to look at it the other way, and presume that Zach is straight. Here he is, having just gotten his best female friend elected Homecoming queen. She is a hot cheerleader who is not seeing anyone, and he is alone in her bedroom with her and she has just asked him to be his date to the Homecoming dance. She then asks him is he is gay, to which he waffles on the answer.

Even if he is very alternative and gay-friendly, there is no reason in the world not to answer her question as anything other than "no, I am straight." The most gay-friendly straight person person in the world has no reason to waffle about their own orientation, and he doesn't need to fake being gay to make it clear to her that there are all sorts of reasons he shouldn't be her date (getting beaten up by the jocks, for one thing.)

In short, if Zach is straight, there is no reason in the world for him to behave the way he did, while it is completely consistent with the behavior of a not-yet-out gay high schooler with a good friend.
Given that the writer is an openly gay man, it seems certain that the intention was for that to be exactly what it looked like.

[johnperkins21]

Does it really matter? Honestly, it makes absolutely no difference to me or the current story line IMHO.

Yes. It goes to why they were friends in the first place, and whether or not she can make that connection again. She needs a sidekick, and he was it. If he's gay then she has almost zero chance of getting the friendship back. If not, then she's got a shot.

[busyba]

People who say that this is still inconclusive need to look at it the other way, and presume that Zach is straight.
To be fair, there's a third posibility as well: Zach himself doesn't know for sure yet.

But personally, yeah, I think that boy was Liberace gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that (except that someone at NBC thought that there was something wrong with that).

[DLiquid]

I for one never took Zach's comments to mean he was gay. It just seemed like generic "be who you are" teenage wisdom to me. :)I kind of thought so too. It was at least a generic enough speech as to leave me neutral on the issue. It really never occurred to me that he might be gay until that episode. Now that I've read PeternJim's post, I'm thinking gay.

[PeternJim]

To be fair, there's a third posibility as well: Zach himself doesn't know for sure yet.

That's actually the least likely possibility. Most of us (even the ones who stay closeted for years) are very clear by high school exactly what is going on. And the few who really are questioning their sexuality tend to be very careful to take every opportunity to appear straight.

No, this looks very much like the network and the actor's agent trying to make sure that there is no hint of homosexuality attached to the actor as he gears up toward his own series. Stupid, really.

[cwoody222]

I said this in the thread about the episode... I thought he was written to be gay from the very first episode.

Brooding male outcast who hangs out with pretty female cheerleader without any sexual overtones? How much clearer could they make it.

Then you add the other cheerleader calling him gay, his non-denial and his speech about "embracing yourself because you're different" (or whatever it was) and you have a slam dunk.

Personally I think it was his management who didn't want to sully his chances of being a break-out star when he got the Terminator TV show deal.

[jradford]

It's funny, I still think the character was written to be an outcast who has always had a huge crush on Claire and never had the confidence to pursue it.

[busyba]

It's funny, I still think the character was written to be an outcast who has always had a huge crush on Claire and never had the confidence to pursue it.
Well, that's pretty gay too. :p

[PeternJim]

It's funny, I still think the character was written to be an outcast who has always had a huge crush on Claire and never had the confidence to pursue it.

Oddly enough, that is NOT what the people who actually wrote the character said, but what do they know?

The character was intended to be gay, and written as gay, but behind the scenes drama made it not worth their continuing to fight it.

[MickeS]

Oddly enough, that is NOT what the people who actually wrote the character said, but what do they know?

Apparently they don't know how to write an explicitly gay character. ;)

[Rosincrans]

I didn't realize he was gay at first, but to me the Homecoming episode made it pretty clear. I was like "Oh, he's gay, I must've missed that". Like PeternJim said, his actions in that episode just don't make sense if he was straight.

[jradford]

Oddly enough, that is NOT what the people who actually wrote the character said, but what do they know?

The character was intended to be gay, and written as gay, but behind the scenes drama made it not worth their continuing to fight it.
I don't remember calling the creators intelligence into question, honestly. :rolleyes:

I do remember interpreting his character quite differently, though, and I don't think I'm the only one.

[johnperkins21]

Oddly enough, that is NOT what the people who actually wrote the character said, but what do they know?

The character was intended to be gay, and written as gay, but behind the scenes drama made it not worth their continuing to fight it.

When did they say this? What they said is "..........". <-- Nothing. And if he's gay, he would never be friends with her. The only reason for him to hang around with her is because she's hot, and he's a teenage heterosexual male. If he's gay, then they'll have a lot of explaining to do as to why they were ever friends. They've said it on multiple occasions that she was never really nice to him.

[Fraser+Dief]

Oddly enough, that is NOT what the people who actually wrote the character said, but what do they know?

Got a cite for that?

[atrac]

OK, what's next...Justin on "Ugly Betty" is straight too? ;)

[MickeS]

The only reason for him to hang around with her is because she's hot, and he's a teenage heterosexual male. If he's gay, then they'll have a lot of explaining to do as to why they were ever friends. They've said it on multiple occasions that she was never really nice to him.

That's why I assumed he wasn't gay. It just seemed like he was too shy to make a move.

[Sinuralan]

It's funny, I still think the character was written to be an outcast who has always had a huge crush on Claire and never had the confidence to pursue it.

That's the way I interpreted his character too. His inner 'freak' has always been well represented by his not fitting in. We saw his rallying the "freak" crowd at school. Do we assume that they're all gay too because they consider themselves to have an inner freak?

It feels like there's plenty of room for a guy in high school to feel different or like a freak, and to tell their friend to embrace who they are, while being straight.

[drew2k]

That's the way I interpreted his character too. His inner 'freak' has always been well represented by his not fitting in. We saw his rallying the "freak" crowd at school. Do we assume that they're all gay too because they consider themselves to have an inner freak?That makes me wonder ... Won't Zack's freak-friends at school remind Zack that he campaigned for Claire (as homecoming queen or whatever the title was), and that he hung out with her a lot, when he remembers not even liking Claire? If Zack was confused before ... he's going to be VERY confused now!

[bottomsup]

From Ausiello at tvguide: "Someone objected to the plot, and my sources tell me it was not NBC, but rather Dekker's camp that came down with a severe case of gay panic syndrome. In fact, rumor has it that Dekker's manager allegedly threatened to pull her client from the show unless the story was changed. Rather tellingly, that same manager promised to get back to me with a comment yesterday but never did."
http://tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx#02AA

For what it's worth (probably very little).

[MickeS]

Yeah, I don't think NBC would object to this. I'm frankly surprised that the actor is doing something like this. Who cares if he plays a gay character? I wonder if he would object to playing a murderer, or if gay is worse than that? :rolleyes:

[Rob Helmerichs]

Yeah, I don't think NBC would object to this. I'm frankly surprised that the actor is doing something like this. Who cares if he plays a gay character? I wonder if he would object to playing a murderer, or if gay is worse than that? :rolleyes:
And more to the point, where does he get off signing to play a gay character, and then when...what? The show gets successful? He gets a better role?...he backs out.

If that's what really happened--that is, if the actor or his agent forced the change--then it would serve him right if he never worked in that town again. He's certainly proven himself unreliable.

[PeternJim]

Got a cite for that?

As the discussion mounts, a quick google search'll do you for this. But here is an example:
An example referencing the Out Magazine interview. (http://whedon.info/article.php3?id_article=16732)

Apparently, Kring made it clear while being interviewed for Out Magazine that he intended the character to be gay, but that they were going to have to sidle up to it -- which is exactly what we saw. Even his apology (http://afterelton.logo-blogs.com/2006/12/11/heroes-creator-tim-kring-speaks-out-about-heroes-gay-controversy/) doesn't say that the character wasn't written as gay, just that it has simply become too complicated behind the scenes to push this issue further with this particular character.

Seems beyond clear to me.

But then, this is a show that includes characters who can go back into the past and change things so they never were what they were originally. Apparently, so can the network.

[PeternJim]

And more to the point, where does he get off signing to play a gay character, and then when...what? The show gets successful? He gets a better role?...he backs out.

Leaping the fence, while I am convinced that the creators intended the character to be gay all along, I haven't seen anything specifically stating that they told the actor that.

Even so, if it is the actor or his representation doing this, then it may affect his professional reputation. He wasn't asked to play a nude gay love scene, for God's sake, just to play a character who didn't specifically deny being gay.

Even if he thinks being gay is a bad thing, why do I doubt that his agent would have a problem with him playing a sociopath, a drug-user, a bully, or some other unsavory character? And if she did, would he have much of a career?

[Rob Helmerichs]

Leaping the fence, while I am convinced that the creators intended the character to be gay all along, I haven't seen anything specifically stating that they told the actor that.
No, but it's pretty unlikely that they wouldn't have told the actor ("OK, what's my motivation in this scene?" "Well, um, you really like her, but, um, like a sister! Yeah, that's the ticket. You're like a brother!")

[nedthelab]

Of course he is - not that's there anything wrong with that!

[dswallow]

Even if he thinks being gay is a bad thing, why do I doubt that his agent would have a problem with him playing a sociopath, a drug-user, a bully, or some other unsavory character? And if she did, would he have much of a career?
He's played gay characters before; if anything I'd be guessing this is his management talking, not even necessarily his own opinion.

Though this also has the classic "Oh my god, I'm really gay so I can't play too many gay characters or else people will find out" all over it.

It's a shame all this happened; I've now kinda lost much interest in the character and the actor, and any of his future projects. Whatever.

[PeternJim]

It's a shame all this happened; I've now kinda lost much interest in the character and the actor, and any of his future projects. Whatever.

I have to agree that without this, his status as a Heroes alum would have gone a long way toward getting me to try out the Connor Chronicles, or whatever it is, but now, though I will check it out, I'll have to overcome some pretty negative feelings to enjoy it.

[super dave]

Leaping the fence, while I am convinced that the creators intended the character to be gay all along, I haven't seen anything specifically stating that they told the actor that.

Even so, if it is the actor or his representation doing this, then it may affect his professional reputation. He wasn't asked to play a nude gay love scene, for God's sake, just to play a character who didn't specifically deny being gay.

Even if he thinks being gay is a bad thing, why do I doubt that his agent would have a problem with him playing a sociopath, a drug-user, a bully, or some other unsavory character? And if she did, would he have much of a career?
Here is a report from today's Daily News:
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/living/16235870.htm

'Heroes' - or cowards

We worship "Heroes," the best new drama on TV this season. Apocalyptic storyline, time-traveling characters and a dark, graphic-novel esthetic - it's pretty edgy for network TV.

Thus we were disappointed to learn from Michael Ausiello on tvguide.com that series writers backed off having cheerleader Claire's sexually ambivalent sidekick, Zach (Thomas Dekker), come out in a recent episode.

How heroic was that?

In a posting on the Web site afterelton.com, series creator Tim Kring said having Zach be gay was "too complicated behind the scenes." Could that mean NBC opposed the idea? Ausiello's sources say Dekker balked, and his manager threatened to pull him from the show.

[PeternJim]

Another reference:Kring didn't tell the actor. (http://www.out.com/detail.asp?page=1&id=19106)

At the bottom of the second page of the article (which is mostly about Battlestar Galactica, Kring is quoted as saying: Kring admits, “I’m feeling a little odd about it, because I literally haven’t even discussed it with the actor yet.” Since that quote comes from an interview before the pilot aired, it is hard to tell whether they ever told Dekker his character was gay, or if he just found out as the show unwound, like the rest of us did.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Since that quote comes from an interview before the pilot aired, it is hard to tell whether they ever told Dekker his character was gay, or if he just found out as the show unwound, like the rest of us did.
Note, however, that it doesn't say nobody told Dekker he was gay, just that Kring hadn't discussed it with him.

[PeternJim]

When did they say this? What they said is "..........". <-- Nothing. And if he's gay, he would never be friends with her. The only reason for him to hang around with her is because she's hot, and he's a teenage heterosexual male. If he's gay, then they'll have a lot of explaining to do as to why they were ever friends. They've said it on multiple occasions that she was never really nice to him.

Most gay male teenagers have straight female friends. Heck, most gay male adults have straight female friends. It's almost a stereotype. All that "how refreshing not to get hit on all the time" stuff.

We don't know how we got from "You haven't talked to me since 6th grade" to him filming suicide attempt 14 or whatever it was. Did he see her trying one of her stunts and try to save her, only to not flip out when she healed? (Or to flip out, so she had to chase after him and beg him not to tell anyone, thus starting things on a "shared secret" basis?) Did she approach him to try to borrow the camera, on the (admittedly odd) basis that she wouldn't have to explain wanting the camera to one of her jock/cheerleader friends?

We do know that their friendship was very recent. We don't know what got it started, but it seems extremely unlikely that "he thought she was hot" is the best explanation. It might explain why a geeky outcast would want to hang out with her, but not why she would want to hang out with him.

Had to be something else, and that being so, "he has to be straight" goes out the window.

[slydog75]

Isn't it possible that he was just confused and not sure what he was until he became friends with Claire and now he's finding himself sexually attracted to her? Maybe we should give the writers more credit. Certainly the kids at school teasing him about being gay means NOTHING. He was certainly being VERY nice to her a few episodes before Homecoming.

[slydog75]

It's a shame all this happened; I've now kinda lost much interest in the character and the actor, and any of his future projects. Whatever.

Because he was a hard-to-read, multi-dimensional character who didn't end up the way you thought he would?

[dswallow]

Because he was a hard-to-read, multi-dimensional character who didn't end up the way you thought he would?
No, because of all the "mudslinging" taking place outside the show between the press, the creator of the series, NBC, and Dekker's rep.

[slydog75]

No, because of all the "mudslinging" taking place outside the show between the press, the creator of the series, NBC, and Dekker's rep.
'

Ahh, ok, point taken. I really don't pay attention to any of that stuff, just the show.

[dswallow]

'

Ahh, ok, point taken. I really don't pay attention to any of that stuff, just the show.
Also I didn't say I still wouldn't watch and follow his projects... just that it's making me less interested in worrying about catching them.


... well as long as we don't find he's into Scientology next. :)

[Shaunnick]

Well, first off, I never thought he was gay. Like others have stated already, he struck me as the type who just didn't know how to handle a hot cheerleader he was so close with. No biggie, I was certainly like that growing up, and an outcast to boot.

Secondly, is it really, really, all that big a deal if he or his management don't want him portrayed as gay? If someone is straight I know they don't give a d@mn. And if someone is gay, why worry? If he or his management have a problem, well its just that, their problem.

My two cents though.

[Rob Helmerichs]

If he or his management have a problem, well its just that, their problem.
In this case, however, it became everybody's problem. Because they had to rewrite the show to appease him.

(Which seems like kind of an odd thing to do, since apparantly he's leaving the show anyway to do "Sarah Conner"...)

[Shaunnick]

In this case, however, it became everybody's problem. Because they had to rewrite the show to appease him.

(Which seems like kind of an odd thing to do, since apparantly he's leaving the show anyway to do "Sarah Conner"...)

Well I guess I should have completed my thought on that. The fact that he is leaving would indicate rightfully so that the character will be no more anyway, so why build on something that was never expressly shown on the show?

[dswallow]

Well I guess I should have completed my thought on that. The fact that he is leaving would indicate rightfully so that the character will be no more anyway, so why build on something that was never expressly shown on the show?
And if he's leaving anyway, why bother making a fuss about the character he's playing? The writers will have to come up with a way for him to go away ro not be part of the storyline anymore, so why not just let them do whatever they need to do? Instead someone felt it necessary to come out (pun intended) with a statement that his fictional character was NOT gay. Now that was just strange.

[Shaunnick]

And if he's leaving anyway, why bother making a fuss about the character he's playing? The writers will have to come up with a way for him to go away ro not be part of the storyline anymore, so why not just let them do whatever they need to do? Instead someone felt it necessary to come out (pun intended) with a statement that his fictional character was NOT gay. Now that was just strange.

Which goes to show that either he or his agency think that being portrayed as gay is a negative thing. So I say once again that they are the ones with the problem. Should they work on it? Well I guess that just depends on who you ask. In the grand scheme of the show, it means nothing. He is not one of the heroes, and right now there is enough storyline to go around for all of them that he is not all that great a thing to be had or lost anyway.

If he was intended from the beginning to be gay so that he could help the character of Claire come to terms with what she is, then he has served his purpose, and is no longer needed. Now that she is aware she is not alone, we will likely see her path go away from Odessa very soon. Janauray can't come soon enough. :sigh:

[classicX]

As the discussion mounts, a quick google search'll do you for this. But here is an example:
An example referencing the Out Magazine interview. (http://whedon.info/article.php3?id_article=16732)

Apparently, Kring made it clear while being interviewed for Out Magazine that he intended the character to be gay, but that they were going to have to sidle up to it -- which is exactly what we saw. Even his apology (http://afterelton.logo-blogs.com/2006/12/11/heroes-creator-tim-kring-speaks-out-about-heroes-gay-controversy/) doesn't say that the character wasn't written as gay, just that

Seems beyond clear to me.

But then, this is a show that includes characters who can go back into the past and change things so they never were what they were originally. Apparently, so can the network.

It's called retconning, and it's done all the time.

I think the message is: the character was supposed to be gay, but there's so much fuss about it, and it's such a minor character that we won't bother going into it any further.

[classicX]

Question: You are quickly becoming my major guilty pleasure. Do I need to get a life?— Beth
Ausiello: Nah. Who doesn't get happy and excited when their questions are answered by a major entertainment-news celebrity?
Question: I was really happy and excited when I saw you answered my question last week!— Kevin
Ausiello: Sounds like someone needs to get a life.

I chuckled quietly when I read that. :)

Are the rules different for males and females?

[mythica23]

i just hope he is ... cause he is hot

[hairyblue]

I thought his character was gay too. And liked the "coming out" talk with Claire. He was a very good Character. Seems to me that he would know that he'd be playing a geeky gay teen. Not sure if it's him or this manager with the "gay" problem but I do find it very sad. Seems like actors wouldn't mind playing any role on a Hit TV show. Just because he plays a gay character doesn't mean he's gay in real life. I think this could be a career destroying choice that may come back to haunt him again and again in the future.

[nedthelab]

So do you think now he forgets thats he's gay?

[drew2k]

So do you think now he forgets thats he's gay?Are you asking if Dekker forgets? Or Zach?

[PeternJim]

They'd just be far better off at this point simply not bringing it up at all. He doesn't remember having a friendship with Claire, so even if they do continue to interact, it will be starting over from square one, where such revelations just don't come up.

Having "decided" that he has been straight all along, it would be hard to come up with a believable reason why he and Claire would get to be friends a second time. What do they have in common if he doesn't remember being her friend?

[marksman]

It's funny, I still think the character was written to be an outcast who has always had a huge crush on Claire and never had the confidence to pursue it.

Yeah. People keep acting like he is gay or was gay, but reviewing all the evidence, there is nothing in the actual tv show to support it. So if that was the actual intent of the writers, they did not do a very good job of presenting it that way.

I still think he was just a disenfranchised youth he felt like an outcast for a number of reasons.

If every time a mean-spirited teenage girl hurled an implied insult to a teenage boy that they were gay and that made them gay, well there would not be many straight men out there I suspect.

I am not sure how it is even relevant. Have we explicitly determined the sexual orientation of every other character on the show? I could not tell you for sure what the orientation is of anyone on the show, even those who are married or hooked up on the show. It is not even relevant. Do they plan on showing him having gay sex on the show? Then what difference does it make? The fact that the actor himself did not know the character was gay to begin with indicates to me that the character was not gay until Mr. Kring decided he was gay sometime later on. Certainly his option, but this notion that this character has been clearly delineated as gay on the show from the onset is not supported by the show itself. And again, for the last time and for emphasis who cares. It is not relevant to the story at all. Do we know if Sylar is gay? Do we care if Sylar is gay? Do we know if the Cheerleeder dabbles in a touch of sapho? I just don't even understand how this became an issue to begin with...

As a culture we have become so fascinated with sticking "gay" characters in shows and then spotting them for sport that the whole thing seems a bit demeaning on its own.

[dswallow]

The funny thing is... NBC/his agent are denying he's going to be gay. Maybe he's bi.

:p

[Rosincrans]

And again, for the last time and for emphasis who cares. It is not relevant to the story at all. Do we know if Sylar is gay? Do we care if Sylar is gay? I think it's very relevant. Sexual desire is a strong motivating factor in all our actions, especially in males, and especially in teenagers.
And yes if would be worth knowing if Sylar were gay. I don't thinks he's hetero or homo sexual. I would guess his only gratification comes from recounting moments of domination or violence.

Not that there's.... oh actually there is something wrong with that. :eek:

[PeternJim]

Yeah. People keep acting like he is gay or was gay, but reviewing all the evidence, there is nothing in the actual tv show to support it.

I have to disagree. There is a lot to support it in the show, and nothing to support that he is straight, beyond the percentages that the majority of boys are straight.

I agree that the early episodes don't have any signals one way or the other. But that scene in Claire's bedroom makes so much less sense if he is straight.

I'd be fascinated to find out, but my guess is that all the people who are saying that there is nothing to support him being gay are straight. That's how the closet works, and why the writing was so dead on for those of us who grew up gay -- that's exactly how the conversations we had at that age all worked.

[marksman]

I think it's very relevant. Sexual desire is a strong motivating factor in all our actions, especially in males, and especially in teenagers.

But it is not relevant to the story, as you don't know what the sexual orientation is of anyone else on the show. You could not prove or defend the sexual orientation of any character on the show, but somehow it is a big deal because supposedly this particular character was gay.

Sorry but that is ridiculous. Like I mentioned above we have turned gay-spotting into a parlor game and it has become way overdone.


And yes if would be worth knowing if Sylar were gay. I don't thinks he's hetero or homo sexual. I would guess his only gratification comes from recounting moments of domination or violence.

How on earth would you know or deduce any of that? All just wild speculation on your part. Maybe it would be relevant if it somehow made him who he is, otherwise no it is not relevant.

I have to disagree. There is a lot to support it in the show, and nothing to support that he is straight, beyond the percentages that the majority of boys are straight.

I don't see it at all. I don't see anything to really support his sexual preference one way or another.


I agree that the early episodes don't have any signals one way or the other. But that scene in Claire's bedroom makes so much less sense if he is straight.

Since you are gay, how on earth could you possibly know that? You want to take the position since you are gay that I could not see your side, while how could you possibly know how a straight male would react/behave feel in that situation. My point, as a straight male, is it is not unusual and not strange for a teenage straight male to have acted in that way.


I'd be fascinated to find out, but my guess is that all the people who are saying that there is nothing to support him being gay are straight.

So what?


That's how the closet works, and why the writing was so dead on for those of us who grew up gay -- that's exactly how the conversations we had at that age all worked.

And the writing is dead on for those of us who are straight. I was a disenfranchised and at times feeling outcast teenage boy. I can relate to a lot of those feelings. Does that make me gay? I think not.

Just because you could relate to him as a teenage boy does not make him gay simply because you are gay. I suspect most teenage boys on some level could relate to the character regardless of sexual preference.

If the writer's intent was to clearly portray a teenage boy who is gay or thinking they are gay, they did a very poor job of it.

[drew2k]

Just because you could relate to him as a teenage boy does not make him gay simply because you are gay. I suspect most teenage boys on some level could relate to the character regardless of sexual preference.By that token ...

Just because you could relate to him as a teenage boy does not make him straight simply because you are straight.

[PeternJim]

If the writer's intent was to clearly portray a teenage boy who is gay or thinking they are gay, they did a very poor job of it.

Actually, that's only true if they were trying to beat the audience over the head with it, or make a point of it. If they were trying to accurately portray a teenage boy who is gay, they did a brilliant job of it.

However, my post wasn't to try to "prove" that Zach is or isn't gay. My post was in reaction to your assertion that there was "nothing in the actual tv show to support it." The fact is that there is a great deal in the actual show that very much supports it. It isn't as though the idea came out of nowhere.

Did they leave things open to either interpretation? Sure. If you want to say that making the character straight doesn't do violence to what we've already seen, I'll agree completely. Add to that the fact that he is a minor character whose actor is leaving the show, and it doesn't matter a bit to the ongoing storyline.

[drew2k]

If the writer's intent was to clearly portray a teenage boy who is gay or thinking they are gay, they did a very poor job of it.In the same light, if the writer's intent was to clearly portray a teenage boy who is straight, they did a very poor job of it.

I guess we'll all just have to accept that Zach's sexual orientation is ambiguously defined.

[Rob Helmerichs]

It's astonishing that some people are so vehement in denying Zach's gayosity, considering that the show's creator has come right out and said it...

[mmilton80]

Didn't dekker already play a gay character? So why would his people flip over this? Ridiculous.

Maybe since he is leaving the show anyway, Zach's story line will not be developed...so it is a moot point.

[pantherman007]

[QUOTE=marksman]But it is not relevant to the story, as you don't know what the sexual orientation is of anyone else on the show. You could not prove or defend the sexual orientation of any character on the show, but somehow it is a big deal because supposedly this particular character was gay.

QUOTE]

Have we been watching the same show? While there are some characters we don't have definitive info on and would need to speculate, there are plenty that we can reliably draw conclusions for:

Peter - clearly straight
Isaac - prettyclearly straight
D.L. - pretty clearly straight
Nathan - clearly straight
Niki - pretty clearly straight -
Matt - clearly straight - married

Sylar, Mohinder and Hiro haven't provided any indication, perhaps with the exception of Hiro's infatuation with the sarcificial waitress.

Each of the characters has something in their normal lives that also parallels their isolation due to his/her powers. Underachiever in the family, single mother, parent/child issues, spouse in prison, financial troubles, teenage angst, etc. Why would you object to sexuality being used in the same light?


No disrespect intended, but as an acknowledged straight male, I'm not sure that you can relate to what some people were hoping to see develop in this character even though he is (was) ancillary. Stating that the audience didn't know the orientation of other characters (when I think we clearly do) reinforces that point. A well-written, well-acted, non-stereotypical, possibly gay character in a hit, non-sitcom TV show is very rare. Then seeing that character get caught up in backtracking and this kind of controversy is quite depressing.

I'll make you a side bet regarding the "gay-spotting parlor game" comment. Pick a network prime time block - any network, any day of the week M-F. We'll both watch, shows and commercials, count the number of two-person interactions of any type, and classify them as gay, straight, or neither. Two guys playing basketball in a Nike commercial - neither. Guy talking to another guy at a bar about girlfriend problems - straight. Guy surprising his wife with a Lexus or necklace for Chistmas - straight. Guy flirting with the Deal or No Deal model or introducing his girlfriend in the audience - straight. Obviously there's some guessing and steretyping here, but the end results are relevant to why some people engage in gay-spotting as you call it. I'd be surprised if there was 1 overtly gay interaction/scenario for every 50 straight ones. IMHO, *that's* why you're seeing such a reaction here.

[PeternJim]

pantherman,

Very well said. Thanks.

[Fraser+Dief]

Matt - clearly straight - married

Uhh, lots of gay men have been married. To women. And have even had sex with them. A friend of mine was married for 5 years and 2 kids before he finally admitted to his wife he was gay.

And remember, Matt *is* having relationship problems with his wife... :)

[Rosincrans]

How on earth would you know or deduce any of that? All just wild speculation on your part. Maybe it would be relevant if it somehow made him who he is, otherwise no it is not relevant. Of course it was wild speculation on my part. But IMHO it would be consistent with the type of sociopath he has shown himself to be. Which was kind of my point. Our sexual desires are not a roped off section of our brain, irrelevant to the rest of our personality. Our orientation, fetishes (from tame to extreme) are part of who we are.

I was a bit of a loner and an outcast as a teenager (shocking I know). But the way I would have responded to Clare would be completely different than they would be if I were gay. Even as a happily married 34 year old, I would interact differently than I would if I was gay.

[pantherman007]

Uhh, lots of gay men have been married. To women. And have even had sex with them. A friend of mine was married for 5 years and 2 kids before he finally admitted to his wife he was gay.

And remember, Matt *is* having relationship problems with his wife... :)

Very true. I certainly don't mean to imply that married = straight by definition. Your suggestion certainly would be an interesting twist to the plot. The man who can read other peoples thoughts has been lying to himself (and others). Hmmm...

[MickeS]

Uhh, lots of gay men have been married. To women. And have even had sex with them. A friend of mine was married for 5 years and 2 kids before he finally admitted to his wife he was gay.

And remember, Matt *is* having relationship problems with his wife... :)
Yes, everyone is probably gay. :rolleyes:

[dswallow]

Yes, everyone is probably gay. :rolleyes:
Now that would be funny... to find out that every character on the show is gay. Except Zach.

:)

[getreal]

Now that would be funny... to find out that every character on the show is gay. Except Zach.

:)

LOL! :up:

[marksman]

Have we been watching the same show? While there are some characters we don't have definitive info on and would need to speculate, there are plenty that we can reliably draw conclusions for:

Don't know about that. The only two characters on the show who I know might have had sex, as far as I recall, are the brother and the women whose father passed. The rest of the people I would not reasonably conclude about their sexuality one way or another. Most people do not wear their sexuality on their sleeve, and you are making some pretty broad assumptions. Some of the characters we know so little about it would be completely foolish to guess what their sexual orientation might be. Of course in almost all cases it is not relevant to the story.


Peter - clearly straight
Isaac - prettyclearly straight

A heroin addicted artist is clearly straight because he had a girlfriend?


D.L. - pretty clearly straight
Nathan - clearly straight
Niki - pretty clearly straight -
Matt - clearly straight - married


One of the biggest indicators of sexual orientation is actually having sex with people of the opposite sex or the same sex. Much bigger indicator than other things.


Each of the characters has something in their normal lives that also parallels their isolation due to his/her powers. Underachiever in the family, single mother, parent/child issues, spouse in prison, financial troubles, teenage angst, etc. Why would you object to sexuality being used in the same light?

I don't object to it being used that way. All I am saying is if that was the intent of the writer, and it is still not clear that it was initially, he did a poor job of implementing it.


No disrespect intended, but as an acknowledged straight male, I'm not sure that you can relate to what some people were hoping to see develop in this character even though he is (was) ancillary. Stating that the audience didn't know the orientation of other characters (when I think we clearly do)[/quote]

well suffice it to say, you are just speculating, again. You can't actual provide any evidence that any of the characters are straight. The best guess are the two who actually ended up in bed. Did anyone else actually exclaim their sexuality? When we know nothing about the sexual lives of any of the characters, for the most part, the idea that we should magically assume one character is gay with nothing to actually support it is amusing.

reinforces that point. A well-written, well-acted, non-stereotypical, possibly gay character in a hit, non-sitcom TV show is very rare. Then seeing that character get caught up in backtracking and this kind of controversy is quite depressing.

You don't actually know what happened, again a lot more speculation. My speculation is the character was not initially gay or else the actor would have known about it, and only later did the writer decide to make him gay and that is when things went the way it did. Considering how it comes across on screen, that seems to fit perfectly. Regardless, who cares? Not exactly a major character. Maybe they can make Hiro's friend gay. He is as likely to be gay as this kid. So we can make him gay, will that make people happy?


I'll make you a side bet regarding the "gay-spotting parlor game" comment. Pick a network prime time block - any network, any day of the week M-F. We'll both watch, shows and commercials, count the number of two-person interactions of any type, and classify them as gay, straight, or neither. Two guys playing basketball in a Nike commercial - neither. Guy talking to another guy at a bar about girlfriend problems - straight. Guy surprising his wife with a Lexus or necklace for Chistmas - straight. Guy flirting with the Deal or No Deal model or introducing his girlfriend in the audience - straight. Obviously there's some guessing and steretyping here, but the end results are relevant to why some people engage in gay-spotting as you call it. I'd be surprised if there was 1 overtly gay interaction/scenario for every 50 straight ones. IMHO, *that's* why you're seeing such a reaction here.

You are the reason why I say this exists. I don't watch tv shows labeling everyone I see in terms of their sexuality. It is not relevant in almost all cases. Unless they are actually going to start fellating each other in front of me I don't care. Maybe that is where my disconnect is, but someone's sexuality is not a primary identifier for me in terms of categorizing other human beings. Perhaps it is my growing up with two gay older brothers, but I don't see the relevancy. And that is my point, we don't know the sexual orientation of almost anyone on tv unless they actually tell us. Same goes with real life. You can go around judging and guessing all you want. It just means you will be wrong quite a bit.

Let me ask you this, why do you feel compelled to go around guessing everyone's sexuality? I will not claim I immune from it, I am just saying you seem very quick to try and guess what sex someone is based on the most basic information. So why is it important to you to know, or at least want to know?

To bring it back around, I still don't see the relevancy of this particular character's sexual orientation to the actual story being told. Was his "gayness" going to influence the plot in some way? Is he supposed to seduce Sylar into some tryst that makes him vulnerable to capture? Short of that, where is the relevancy. It is fine if they want to allude to it, in the way they did, but for people to insist that is the way it is, A) no its not, B) Who cares?

It is all well and good if people want realistic gay characters on tv, but I also want realistic characters in general, and everyone in the world does not run around with a sexuality button exclaiming their particular preference. Some people do, but those tend to fall in the stereotypical category. So the fact that it is not clear cut, or easily determined is much more realistic than it might be otherwise.

I am really not trying to pick a fight or be inciteful, but it seems some people are bent out of shape that somehow this character ended up not being gay. I will say again, who cares. So this particular character whom I did not think was gay to begin with is not gay. It does not actually impact the story or the show Heroes at all... so I don't see the problem. If they want to write a storyline or substory line about a gay character, then do it. Don't pussyfoot around and then act all bummed when an actor doesn't necessarily agree with you.

[PeternJim]

Don't know about that. The only two characters on the show who I know might have had sex, as far as I recall, are the brother and the women whose father passed. The rest of the people I would not reasonably conclude about their sexuality one way or another.

Ando watches straight porn of a woman (Niki) stripping for the camera while at work, and then while in the US to go cross country to stop a nuclear explosion in New York insists that they stop in Las Vegas, and while there, goes to the woman's home in an effort to meet her.

Nathan is married, and while on a money-raising trip to Las Vegas, picks up a woman in a bar (Niki, again) and spends the night with her.

D.L. is married with a child (to Niki). Admittedly, we didn't see him try to have sex with her when they reunited, but she was trying to kill him at the time....

Did I mention Niki yet? If you cannot "reasonably conclude" about her sexuality yet, yeesh, what does it take?

Peter certainly behaves as though he has a thing for Simone, including playing kissy-face in the rain.

Isaac also behaves as though he has a thing for Simone, including getting seriously upset when Peter plays kissy-face with her.

Simone appears to be cheating on Isaac with Peter. See above kissy-face reference.

Hiro was apparently quite smitten with Charlie, and clearly dated her for months, spending a great deal of time with her. If all he wanted to do was save her life, all he had to do was convince her of his time travel abilities and give her the warning.

Matt is clearly shown as being in love with his wife and upset that she is having an affair, and working on trying to fix things in his marriage.
-------

While acknowledging that none of these are "conclusive" and that a deep enough closet would allow a gay or lesbian person to behave in any of the above ways, they certainly serve as pretty solid indicators that the characters are portrayed as straight.

We get that you don't want Zach to be gay and aren't convinced by anything you've seen on the show, or the stated intentions of the show's writers.

But to repeat pantherman007's question, are you watching the same show? You honestly think that none of the other characters have shown any indication of their orientation?

If what they've shown doesn't hint to you that they are straight, then no wonder you don't get it with Zach.