The Wire "Final Grades" 12/11/2006 [Text View]

cheesesteak

12-11-2006, 08:03 AM

This show makes me sad sometimes. Randy... Bubbles... Bodie... Michael...

So it ends up that Carcetti was more interested in maintaining his image than helping kids.

Good to see the team coming back together. Next season should be awesome.

This was the first episode that I can remember that Sgt. Landsman has shown some kindness to someone.

How the heck are Chris and Snook able to even get bail? I know there's no hard evidence yet but still, 22 murders with the same m.o. that can be (tentatively) linked to them???

If Omar is *still* in Baltimore next season...

You have to love Prop Joe. Omar sells the dope back to him at 20 cents on the dollar and Joe wants to sell it back to the co-op at 30 cents on the dollar.

Ace Deprave

12-11-2006, 08:37 AM

This show makes me sad sometimes. Randy... Bubbles... Bodie... Michael...

It's bleak...which I guess that kind of life is, but this is the first show that makes it so realistic.

And Vondas finally returns.

harvscar

12-11-2006, 08:53 AM

Don't forget Duquan, who's now working Michael's corner. This was such a depressing episode in so many ways, but so good. I thought the kid actors did a tremendous job this season and overall it ranks near the top for me.

I was really hoping all the way to the end that Randy was going to take his money and run away somewhere. I guess when you're a kid who's known nothing but the West side of Baltimore your whole life there really is no where to run.

TAsunder

12-11-2006, 08:56 AM

There were a few hopeful moments, too.

I thought carcetti did care about the kids, and they went back there to ask for the money but the governor was just toying with them for political reasons and had no intention of giving them the money...?

cheesesteak

12-11-2006, 09:15 AM

I was really hoping all the way to the end that Randy was going to take his money and run away somewhere. I guess when you're a kid who's known nothing but the West side of Baltimore your whole life there really is no where to run.
I was hoping that Carver was going to lay the law down on the other halfway house kids about ganging up on Randy, but I was wrong.

Looks like Namond hit the jackpot.

TivoZorro

12-11-2006, 09:48 AM

Who was the kid that Michael killed in the drive by? And did the gun make it in the sewer?

Fahtrim

12-11-2006, 10:06 AM

Just Michael's first hit. And yes, the gun made it into the sewer.

deli99

12-11-2006, 10:56 AM

I thought the scene near the end with Bubbles and his sponser from NA was very well done.

That was the nurse that Cutty was with in the gym, correct?

It will be great to see the team back together next season. And I'm glad to see Vondas back too. International crime must be his side job, since he is also the president of Warner Brothers Studios (Entourage). :D

cheesesteak

12-11-2006, 11:44 AM

Who killed Bodie? Michael?

TAsunder

12-11-2006, 11:49 AM

Michael killed bodie. I thought the guy he killed at the end was the person who snitched on bodie. Was it just a random thug?

Joeg180

12-11-2006, 11:56 AM

I missed the first 10-15 minutes, I'll have to catch up tonight.

Michael also popped Bodie...

The Greek is back!, I wonder if they will put it all together next season.

Namond definitely hit the jackpot.

xuxa

12-11-2006, 11:59 AM

Michael didn't kill Bodie. David Simon has said that himself. Michael first hit was the other kid on the corner.

spikedavis

12-11-2006, 12:32 PM

Brilliant brilliant show. Absolutely heartwrenching. I watched this ON DEMAND last monday and I can't stop thinking about it. The last time that happened was with the finale of SIX FEET UNDER.

GadgetFreak

12-11-2006, 12:32 PM

Is there going to be another season?

TAsunder

12-11-2006, 12:39 PM

Michael didn't kill Bodie. David Simon has said that himself. Michael first hit was the other kid on the corner.

Hmmm... well chris and snoop were approaching bodie and someone who looked a lot like michael came out of a house and shot bodie in the head. Who was it if not michael?

ravonaf

12-11-2006, 12:47 PM

Hmmm... well chris and snoop were approaching bodie and someone who looked a lot like michael came out of a house and shot bodie in the head. Who was it if not michael?

It was Michael. The other hit was also him just him continuing his training.

Rob Helmerichs

12-11-2006, 12:49 PM

Is there going to be another season?
Yes, one more, and Simon says this is the one they've been working towards all along.

Can't wait!

ClutchBrake

12-11-2006, 01:26 PM

It was Michael. The other hit was also him just him continuing his training.

As xuxa mentioned, Michael did not kill Bodie. O-Dog, one of the other young pups in training, killed Bodie.

The episode recap is very detailed and well worth checking out after each episode (http://www.hbo.com/thewire/episode/index.shtml). :up:

chs4

12-11-2006, 01:52 PM

As xuxa mentioned, Michael did not kill Bodie. O-Dog, one of the other young pups in training, killed Bodie.
I believe Chris specifically told Snoop that someone else needed to do that hit, since Michael's first shouldn't be someone he knew.

TAsunder

12-11-2006, 01:53 PM

Hm, yeah, that kid looked a lot like michael in the dark with a hood on. I had forgotten about the conversation where they agreed it shouldn't be michael.

Looks like I misinterpreted the carcetti scene too... he did refuse the money but the governor would have given it and then humiliated him publicly.

ClutchBrake

12-11-2006, 02:05 PM

Looks like I misinterpreted the carcetti scene too... he did refuse the money but the governor would have given it and then humiliated him publicly.

No more Norman. :down: :(

deli99

12-11-2006, 02:18 PM

No more Norman. :down: :(

Is he actually going to go? I know he is disappointed in Carcetti, but I didn't get the impression he was resigning. I took it that the other guy (Parker from Mayor Royce's office) was going to join the campain of the guy in the First District.

Maybe I got that wrong

ClutchBrake

12-11-2006, 02:34 PM

Is he actually going to go? I know he is disappointed in Carcetti, but I didn't get the impression he was resigning. I took it that the other guy (Parker from Mayor Royce's office) was going to join the campain of the guy in the First District.

Maybe I got that wrong

I honestly don't have a clue. You are likely right. I hope you are. :)

TAsunder

12-11-2006, 02:50 PM

I was hoping to see how colvin's kids did on the exams compared to others. While they were taking them, they seemed to be more focused on the exam than the kids in prez's class, which made me think this episode would involve a revelation about their performance.

cheesesteak

12-11-2006, 03:14 PM

Re: Michael & Bodie. I thought Chris said it would be hard for Michael to look Bodie in the eye as his first hit since he knew him. I thought that was why the guy I thought was Michael shot him from behind. Guess I was wrong.

I know this was only only a fictional tv show, but I still feel really bad for Randy. Weird.

chs4

12-11-2006, 04:29 PM

I know this was only only a fictional tv show, but I still feel really bad for Randy. Weird. Not wierd at all, actually. That's what a fictional show of this caliber will do to you. It's just that feeling that makes it the preeminent series on TV. :up:

deli99

12-11-2006, 04:37 PM

Not wierd at all, actually. That's what a fictional show of this caliber will do to you. It's just that feeling that makes it the preeminent series on TV. :up:

Agreed. Also, the fact that these stories are pretty close to the truth makes it more saddening.

ravonaf

12-11-2006, 04:51 PM

As xuxa mentioned, Michael did not kill Bodie. O-Dog, one of the other young pups in training, killed Bodie.

The episode recap is very detailed and well worth checking out after each episode (http://www.hbo.com/thewire/episode/index.shtml). :up:

I stand corrected. Thanks for the update. It makes alot more sense now. :)

Joeg180

12-11-2006, 07:00 PM

Ok so O-dog killed Bodie, it was a pretty good ambush.

I loved it when Marlo spotted the ring around Michael's neck and when Snoop ask who it was that they dropped for him.

Quite a change in the Nurse after Bunny mentioned that Cutty got shot trying to get a kid off the corner.

jradosh

12-11-2006, 08:06 PM

Great conclusion to the season... depressing as most of it was.

Loved the sound of wind chimes outside Bunny's rowhouse as Namond was beginning his new life. Symbolic of a "breath of fresh air".

Of course that was just about the only positive outcome in the episode (well, excluding the reunion of the team now that McNutty's back :) ).

Next season promises a lot. So many story lines were left open. I'm really hoping they don't fall on the floor like so many Sopranos threads :(

Bodie's death really upset me. Bad timing... McNutty meeting him when he did. Damn... :mad:

A good article in today's Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/10/AR2006121001034.html) about people that have lived these stories.

Turtleboy

12-11-2006, 11:09 PM

deli99

12-12-2006, 12:55 AM

I was disappointed in this season.

If I had to rank them, I'd say

3
1
4
2

The whole school thing didn't work for me. Nor did the political angle too much. As soon as they introducted Carcetti last season, I knew that he was Martin O'Malley and was going to be mayor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O'Malley

If he runs for governor, he'll probably win too.

OK, since we're ranking the seasons (we are, right? :) ), from my favorite to least favorite:

2
1
4
3

Looks like we have different feelings on seasons 2 & 3, Turtleboy. I personally loved the port storyline and the Greeks.

EDIT: Of course, I have to add that all four seasons are excellent. Better than anything on TV.

jradosh

12-12-2006, 08:09 AM

I'll jump on the ranking train too. From favorite to least favorite...

3
4
1
2

But 3, 4 and 1 are so close it's really hard to rank them at all. The second season is the only one that stands alone IMO. While it was well written, directed and acted, I just didn't latch on to the dock story as much as I did with the corner stories.

Odds Bodkins

12-12-2006, 08:37 AM

1
4
2
3

But it's more like ranking them 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d. I love them all.

KRS

12-12-2006, 10:15 AM

I thought Namond seeing his friend in a (stolen) SUV running a stopsign and almost getting T boned was particularly weell done.

I really thought Weebay was going to cut his wife loose as well. I guess he is sticking with that monster for the conjugal visits.

Great end to an awesome season. I'm not going to bother ranking then as they have all been top notch.

cheesesteak

12-12-2006, 12:43 PM

I don't know if this season was the best or not but it certainly, by far elicited the most emotional response from me.

TAsunder

12-12-2006, 12:49 PM

It was the best season for me. The characters all had some payoffs. The bad guys were bad guys, the good guys were good guys (except the corrupt cop and Herc) and the kids were caught up in between. The climax of the series was stringer bell's death and avon's incarceration. All the aftermath is just fascinating stuff. Each season I grow more fond of the characters who survive, because there is so much history, and the history has been earned.

frombhto323

12-12-2006, 03:09 PM

So, it seems we are down to Slim Charles and Poot as surviving Barksdale crew members. It will be interesting to see what comes of Marlo's crew now that the "team" is back together with renewed vigor, interest, and a mandate from the top. It's interesting that Herc is taken down not for blatant incompetence (right to the end!), but for bureaucratic malfeasance. I am looking forward to McNulty being back with the crew. I think Daniels is about to experience the wrath of Burrell. Don't think so? Sheeeet! I don't know what you are smoking!

My heart goes out to all the children portrayed this year, as this show has demonstrated how the Randys, Michaels, Dukies, and even Namonds of the world are led astray by adults long before they can figure how the world works. As Colvin pointed out, when does it ever change? I still feel most for Michael, who seemingly had the talent to do very special things if not for his tragic environment sucking him in.

It's difficult for me to rank the seasons, as I came in at the beginning of the 2nd season, which I hold in higher regard than most here seem to. Taking a shot at it, though, I would say:

3
4
2
1

by the ever so slimmest of margins, mind you. The difference between 3 and 1 in my mind is not really worth discussing. Great series. This should be required viewing for any Sociology, Public Management, Criminal Justice, or Urban Planning major.

Fahtrim

12-12-2006, 03:23 PM

I rank them as follows

"The Wire has had 4 awesome seasons so far."

Timbeau

12-12-2006, 03:49 PM

I liked all the seasons pretty much equally, they were just different. This season evoked immense sadness seeing just how little chance some of those kids had of surviving and prospering.

Mabes

12-12-2006, 04:24 PM

So Randy wasn't killed, just beaten? The episode recap only mentions a beating.

deli99

12-12-2006, 04:38 PM

So Randy wasn't killed, just beaten? The episode recap only mentions a beating.

All we know is that he was beaten. I am assuming that was the extent of it.

jradosh

12-12-2006, 10:17 PM

All we know is that he was beaten. I am assuming that was the extent of it.
That was the saddest bit of the entire episode for me (well, Bodie was sad too I 'spose).

Carter had a chance to do the same thing Bunny did with Namond, but he couldn't. So poor Randy gets trapped in the cycle. His being labelled as a "snitch b&tch" will undoubtable (although they leave that open) drag him down and ruin his chances for future success. And he had such a true entrepreneurial spirit about him that could easily have translated into many other venues. A real shame :(

Turtleboy

12-12-2006, 10:26 PM

All we know is that he was beaten. I am assuming that was the extent of it.

I'm assuming he'll be beaten again and again and again.

madscientist

12-13-2006, 12:55 AM

Michael killed some corner guy we don't know; that wasn't the guy who saw Bodie and McNulty.

It was the nurse sitting with Cutty at the end.

I'm assuming Carver didn't try to lay down the law for Randy because he knows that would only make things worse for him: he's already supposed to be a snitch then the cops try to protect him? Carver actually hid outside so the roommates couldn't see him, and he had his jacket zipped up to hide his badge.

Did anyone hear what happened to Herc at his hearing? Did they say what his punishment was?

The guy should be drummed out of the force. Hell, even the evil cop didn't cause nearly as much serious damage as Herc did. Incompetence is worse than malice: how very Ayn Rand!

deli99

12-13-2006, 01:46 AM

I'm assuming he'll be beaten again and again and again.

Agreed. I wonder if he will just leave and join Michael and Dukie in the Stansfield sponsered crib and on the corner.

spikedavis

12-13-2006, 02:51 AM

Agreed. I wonder if he will just leave and join Michael and Dukie in the Stansfield sponsered crib and on the corner.

Unfortunately, he will not be welcome there. Marlo already knows about the "Snitch boy"

cheesesteak

12-13-2006, 09:31 AM

Joeg180

12-13-2006, 10:55 AM

+1 on all the seasons being awesome!

ravonaf

12-13-2006, 02:31 PM

Unless it's addressed further next season, in my mind Bunny Colvin and his wife start a halfway house for troubled kids. Randy, Dukie and Zenobia join Namond under the Colvin family's care. Bubbles becomes a counselor to the kids. Everybody lives happily ever after with plenty of cake and ice cream for all.

Unfortunately, Michael's probably too far gone to be saved.

This is the Wire. More than likely Colvin gets shot by Michael. Namond ends up on the street trying to deal again. Dukie ends up being the next Bubs. And Randy ends up dead in a vacant.

TAsunder

12-13-2006, 03:29 PM

I prefer the version where namond becomes a beat cop and eventually joins the wire team to catch michael.

mwhip

12-13-2006, 03:56 PM

someone who echoed the parallels between the boys and the other characters was right on.

Michael = Avon
Randy = Stringer
Duquan = Bubbles
Namond = Colvin

TAsunder

12-13-2006, 05:55 PM

In the analogy someone proposed, namond was D'angelo. Fits better, IMO.

mwhip

12-13-2006, 06:06 PM

In the analogy someone proposed, namond was D'angelo. Fits better, IMO.

I don't see Namond going back to the corner and I think his life echoes colvin's with growing up in the ghetto and finding a way out.

TAsunder

12-13-2006, 06:10 PM

I don't see Namond going back to the corner and I think his life echoes colvin's with growing up in the ghetto and finding a way out.

I dunno, I didn't get any indication that Colvin had such a troubled past.

David Platt

12-13-2006, 06:26 PM

While this wasn't my favorite season, that was damn near the best 1:20 of TV I've seen in years.

Rob Helmerichs

12-13-2006, 06:58 PM

I dunno, I didn't get any indication that Colvin had such a troubled past.
Yeah, he didn't seem to understand the street kids he was trying to help on a very deep level. he tried, but the restaurant incident, e.g., was kind of embarrassing in terms of his ability to get what the kids were experiencing.

hughmcjr

12-13-2006, 08:03 PM

When Namond seen his buddy drive by in that stolen rig in front of Colvin's house, Namond gave a smile when his buddy ran the stop sign. It could mean one of two things that the writers are implying will happen:

1. he laughed because he remembers doing that crap and is thankful he doesn't anymore and won't ever go back.
2. he laughed because it made him reminisce to the point where he would be tempted to go back and will.

Turtleboy

12-13-2006, 08:10 PM

Is it just me, or was Namond's mother the most hateful character in the history of the show?

hughmcjr

12-13-2006, 09:20 PM

Snoop and Chris don't exactly thrill me either. Namond's mom maybe the most overtly hateful charachter, but overall, Stansfield wins handsdown for me.

Turtleboy

12-13-2006, 09:32 PM

Marlo is one cold soulless MF. Avon and his crew were ruthless and killers, and evil, but they were also fully fleshed out characters, with families, and loves and hates, and personalities.

Marlo? Marlo is the new breed. Namond couldn't survive on the street in Marlo's world.

hughmcjr

12-13-2006, 10:49 PM

That is so funny, I was thinking of saying MOFO about Marlo too in my previos post. :)
He must bring out that thought that he is a MF.

cheesesteak

12-14-2006, 07:44 AM

Marlo is the new breed. Namond couldn't survive on the street in Marlo's world.
Nobody can survive on the street in Marlo's world for more than a year or two. He'd have kids executed.

jradosh

12-14-2006, 10:41 AM

Is it just me, or was Namond's mother the most hateful character in the history of the show?
Interesting question really.

My 'gut reaction' is to say hell yeah. She was a truly horrible person. None worse.

But then again, she didn't kill anyone. She wasn't a drug addict or dealer. She wasn't a prostitute or a loose woman. She stayed true to her man (as best we could tell).

All she was guilty of was being a bad mom. A really. bad. mom.

So now I'm not sure. I hate her for sure. But I don't know if I can say "most hateful".

Most selfish... yeah, no question there.

TAsunder

12-14-2006, 11:52 AM

Hateful or hateable?

mikieminnow

12-14-2006, 02:36 PM

Yeah, he didn't seem to understand the street kids he was trying to help on a very deep level. he tried, but the restaurant incident, e.g., was kind of embarrassing in terms of his ability to get what the kids were experiencing.

I don't know. He and Wee Bay sure were reminiscing there for a while like they had many shared experiences.

Mabes

12-14-2006, 03:36 PM

I don't know. He and Wee Bay sure were reminiscing there for a while like they had many shared experiences.

Why is he called Wee Bay, by the way? There a lot of characters with names that aren't explained. Or maybe they are and I missed it.

ClutchBrake

12-14-2006, 05:23 PM

Why is he called Wee Bay, by the way? There a lot of characters with names that aren't explained. Or maybe they are and I missed it.

I don't recall an explanation of Wee-Bey. His real name is Roland.

cheesesteak

12-15-2006, 08:49 AM

I'm not sure I want to know how Poot got his name.

Mabes

12-15-2006, 09:43 AM

Or Snot Boogie back from the opening scene of the first season. McNulty had a theory about the name, probably correct. I saw that show when it first aired and turned it off after that scene. All I knew was that it was a cop show (another one!) and the scene was just too cute. Didn't start watching again until later in the first season. Now I'm watching it from the beginning, up to episode 7 now. Interesting to see all the characters then now that I know what they are now.

mikieminnow

12-15-2006, 11:17 AM

No matter what, this is the best show on television. Period.

mwhip

12-15-2006, 11:37 AM

And it got no Golden Globe or WGA nominations. What a load of crap.

Fahtrim

12-19-2006, 01:29 PM

No matter what, this is the best show on television. Period.
Totally agree.

Mike20878

12-31-2006, 08:32 PM

Snoops is one cold MF. She gives me the creeps.

I kind of have a feeling Herc will get demoted and end up in Major Crimes with the rest of the old team.

mitchb2

01-14-2007, 09:22 PM

Just finished the season. Very disappointed. Doesn't hold a candle to previous seasons.

1. The political BS that was the boring 5% of previous seasons was now the boring 95% of this season.

2. "The Wire." NO WIRE! No team, no Major Crimes. The whole premise of the show...not there!

3. No McNulty. Every other episode, for 10 seconds, having a beer or cracking a joke, but he wasn't in the show on any level.

Every episode I thought, surely NOW they are going to get into the season, get something going. But it never happened. It was almost like an experiment to see if they could write West Wing dialogue.

And the stuff with the kids in school...very cliche. The Wire was never cliche, so this was the worst part. The new teacher trying to tame the "wild" inner city kids, and in the end they are sweet, learning lap puppies. Saw it in many, many movies and shows.

I can't believe they are going to make another season after this. This was the whimper. The ENTIRE season could be adequately depicted with a 2-minute "previously on" trailer.

walkerism

01-15-2007, 06:23 PM

BadlyDrawnBoy

01-15-2007, 07:34 PM

I think mitch is watching The Wire on BET :)

Lee L

01-16-2007, 09:22 AM

My wife and I recently finsihed Season 4 as well and we thought it was great. We got too busy after we moved to watch them and realized that with this show, watching them all over a several day period helps with following all the characters anyway.

As far as cliche, you might say that, but there are plenty of schools where those very scenrios play out week after week I'm sure. Even in our county, which has truly good schools, the teachers still have to "teach the test" even to advanced students because someone higher up said they wanted to see good numbers and therefore the people under them figured out how to make it happen.

To me, that is what is great. about The Wire. The cops, politicians, drug dealers and schools all have the same problem. One person at the top who wants to see the numbers improve and all the people below them struggling to live in that system, whatever way they can and remembering how back in the old days it was not like it is now. Some fake it, some just live with it and some try truly novel means, but in the end, they are all different sides of the same structure. Plus, back in the day, it was teh same, just with different players.

I did hate seeing Bodie get wacked though.

Mabes

01-16-2007, 10:27 AM

Just finished the season. Very disappointed. Doesn't hold a candle to previous seasons.

And the stuff with the kids in school...very cliche. The Wire was never cliche, so this was the worst part. The new teacher trying to tame the "wild" inner city kids, and in the end they are sweet, learning lap puppies. Saw it in many, many movies and shows.

I can't believe they are going to make another season after this. This was the whimper. The ENTIRE season could be adequately depicted with a 2-minute "previously on" trailer.

I also have to ask if we were watching the same show. "Sweet lap puppies"? Sorry, I'm forgotting names, but one kid seemed to reform and ended up going back to dealing, Namond moved in with Colvin but it's hardly clear it's going to "take". Most of them, once they are back in the regular class, are going to do the same thing they've always done.

I've seen shows with the "wild" inner city kids, and in the end everything always works out for the best. I think in this season The Wire went into a much greater detail of the entire problem, from schools and politicians trying to make the numbers to parents who don't care or even encourage drug dealing to educators without funds, in some cases without motivation, etc etc.

Fahtrim

01-16-2007, 02:02 PM

I guess someone wanted the same thing as before and didn't have an open mind to a good story.

Seaon 4 was awesome story telling. Just awesome with believable truth to it, yeah the world isn't perfect, but this story-telling is pretty near perfect.

Paul Wozniak

01-18-2007, 10:44 AM

Fahtrim, I've got to agree 100% with your comments. I'll just add that it's heartbreaking because of how much reality this show presented.

peitsche

01-28-2007, 07:23 PM

Senator Clay Davis, everyone! :D

I met him at the Sundance Film Festival this week and, of course, I made him say "shiiiiiiiiiiit" for me... :D

It also confirmed that nobody is watching The Wire :down: because I seemed to be only one recognizing him...even when he rode the shuttle bus with everyone afterwards... :D

http://www.torstenclausen.com/photos/sundance2007/DSC09763.JPG

p.s. Here was there for the screening of a short film ("A Nick in Time") in which he stars...