Battlestar Galactica "The Passage" 12/08/2006

[Mike Farrington]

Just started watching the episode (10 minutes in).

WHAT THE HELL IS WITH THAT BUG!!!!!

That is the most distracting thing I've ever seen. "The Lost Room Starts Monday".

I thought for sure it would go away after 10 seconds, but it doesn't. So distracting.

[dswallow]

Very contrived story for this episode.

Plus all Cat did is put her escorted ship in danger by trying to sacrifice herself by intentionally getting an overdose of radiation. Up till then she'd done good, but with that boneheaded move I think she deserved a wall of shame as her everlasting memory.

I guess this is all the series is anymore... a good one here and there surrounded by pieces of crap like this one.

[Odds Bodkins]

Season finale next week?!?!?! BAH!

[Anubys]

weird thing: I turned on CC in the middle so I could understand what Xena and Baltar were talking about...they kept talking about the God Jupiter but the CC kept showing Zeus...

I'm sure the producer changed the dialogue at the last minute, but I figured I'd point out the discrepancy...

[Chandler Mike]

Season finale next week?!?!?! BAH!


I saw that...is it REALLY the season finale already??? I couldn't believe it...I feel like the season just started.

[super dave]

I saw that...is it REALLY the season finale already??? I couldn't believe it...I feel like the season just started.
Next week is ep 11, there are only 11? The promo was the last ep in 2006, are there more after the new year?

[Rob Helmerichs]

It's coming back January 21.

[PJO1966]

weird thing: I turned on CC in the middle so I could understand what Xena and Baltar were talking about...they kept talking about the God Jupiter but the CC kept showing Zeus...

I'm sure the producer changed the dialogue at the last minute, but I figured I'd point out the discrepancy...


Gene had commented that they kept saying Jupiter, when it should have been Zeus. I guess they figured it out for CC but not in time to get the cast to loop the audio.

[philw1776]

What a weak episode. Other than mindless babble about the eye of Jupiter supposedly providing an astrophysical navigation clue, there was no real story advancement. I'm a written sci-fi fan but I really don't enjoy the Vipers in space scenes. The utter incongruity with reality is too strained for my taste. I like the character stories and societal conflict theme with the Spylons best, but this supposed character driven episode was boring. Maybe if we had a 'Starship Troopers' style scene of Cat showering it would have rated better.

EDIT: Another viewer totally distracted by the Lost Room megabug. This has gotta stop.

[MScottC]

Remember that the Zeus and Jupiter are counterparts in Greek and Roman Mythology, so in essence, they are references to the same god.

[TAsunder]

So the radiation belt offered a clue to the location of earth but BSG folks were too busy eating algae to notice?

I liked the special effects and all, but I felt this was one of the worst episodes of the series. It was a blatant made up past, it was way too convenient how it surfaced just before she died, and just overall few of the characters made sense to me. I've always liked kat, so I hope they killed her off because she can't do the show anymore and not for some garbage plot like this.

This was one of those, "wouldn't it be cool if?" episodes gone bad. What was the point of the radiation arm band if galactica and apollo made the ultimate call anyway? Was someone supposed to say, "I'm black, let's go and abandon my ship"?

Bah.

The redeeming parts were baltar and cylon sex bot #2. I wish the whole episode focused on that. Much more interesting in many ways. The metaphysics of death and what not.

[dcheesi]

Yeah, another "messed up pilot" episode; reminds me of Season 2.5. Of course she just happens to lose her ship (again!) on that final run (probably due to being too sick to fly in the first place), so that she can stay behind and be the big hero :rolleyes:

OTOH, it is interesting that the spylons themselves don't know anything about their missing counterparts. Does that imply that there's another, higher Cylon intelligence running the show? Maybe their whacky religion evolved out of the fact that they've lost touch with their own super-Cylon creator(s)?

[jfjellstad]

This was one of those, "wouldn't it be cool if?" episodes gone bad. What was the point of the radiation arm band if galactica and apollo made the ultimate call anyway? Was someone supposed to say, "I'm black, let's go and abandon my ship"?

I think it was supposed to indicate how much radiation each pilot had accumulated in total. So if it's black or close to black, you weren't supposed to fly. Then again, I don't understand why there were so few pilots. They took five trips. They just brought in at least one squadron from the Pegasus. So, why not rotate? Each pilot should only do one trip. They should have enough pilots to do that.

But then Kat wouldn't have been able to sacrifice herself.

[Domandred]

Season finale next week?!?!?! BAH!

1/2 season finale. Sci-Fi network works in 1/2 seasons, that's why there was a season 2 and a season 2.5 DVD boxed set instead of just all in one package.

As mentioned it comes back Jan 21 or thereabouts.

[Sherminator]

I think it was supposed to indicate how much radiation each pilot had accumulated in total. So if it's black or close to black, you weren't supposed to fly. Then again, I don't understand why there were so few pilots. They took five trips. They just brought in at least one squadron from the Pegasus. So, why not rotate? Each pilot should only do one trip. They should have enough pilots to do that.

But then Kat wouldn't have been able to sacrifice herself.I presumed that only those pilots trained for Raptor flight knew how to program the jump computers. So those pilots with viper training only would have been useless in a Raptor.

Which brings a second question, didn't the Raptors need a navigator to work the jump computer which was situated behind the pilot?

[dswallow]

Did anyone wonder if Taco Bell had gotten the fleet food service contract?

[Anubys]

OTOH, it is interesting that the spylons themselves don't know anything about their missing counterparts.

that's the big news right there...the 7 spylons would not even recognize the other 5 if they saw them...

[jwjody]

So does the star cluster have something to do with finding Earth? Or finding out what happened to the remaining 5 Spylons? I thought D'anna said something about a star cluster providing a clue to their whereabouts and the next immediate scene was the star cluster the fleet was going through.

And in one of the brief drawings that D'anna drew one of them sorta looked like Baltar to me as far as one of those drawings could resemble someone.

J

[Rob Helmerichs]

I'm assuming the planet the fleet is on/at now is the one the Cylons are now looking for. It certainly fits all the vague, prophetic criteria.

[Anubys]

I'm assuming the planet the fleet is on/at now is the one the Cylons are now looking for. It certainly fits all the vague, prophetic criteria.

they certainly made it look like that...the humans will have to stumble on the clue accidentally since they have no idea it's there...

I also wonder why the virus makes the crazy cylons prophetic...

[MickeS]

What a "blah" episode. After last week's excellent one, which IMO was one of the best in the series, it's followed by this piece of crap (can't think of a better way to describe it).

So let's see, all of a sudden there's a not-mentioned-before food shortage again, we're supposed to care about the fate of one if the minor regular characters for no reason, and her backstory is supposed to be important. I didn't give a rat's ass about her, and her "heroic" act was as pointed out pretty dumb.

Bleh. Give me more of the Cylon story, that was the only interesting part of this episode.

[cyke93]

im a little confused with this episode, someone please clarify for me on this whole cylon mess. does the 7 models not know what the remaining 5 models look like? And by Xena killing herself over and over again, she can see their faces? And I never really got what that girl who keeps talking is all about, the one who grabbed Baltar's arm and told him somethings about a hand and jupitor or something like that?

Ok with that out of the way, I was glad that they actually tackled some logistical problems such as food. but did cat had to die ? she was a minor character but in this episode, it was as if she was a major character. billy was minor as well but his impact on the show i think was much more than cat's.

[Warren]

So let's see, all of a sudden there's a not-mentioned-before food shortage again,


the food was contaminated they where not out of food.

also everyone here keeps complaining about stuff coming out of no were do you get the saying "coming to a head" the stuff has been going on just because they never hint at it or show anything before they do a whole episode about it doesn't mean the stuff isn't going on under the surface.

[vikingguy]

Wow the time warp is still alive and well as I feel like I am stuck in the horrible season 2.5 again. The writers got them selves into this by not having a real plan and it is coming back to bite them in the ass. Hero got a 1.3 rating that is well below the cancelled SG1. If the show gets canned it will be all because of ron moore reading to much of his own good press and getting arrogant. It is a shame the show really got great during season 2.0 since then has been a disaster. It is funny I could careless about any of the characters on the galactica anymore hell outside tigh I actually hate them. The only thing that really interests me now is the cylons.

[Figaro]

Not bad but not great. Could have been much better if it didn't focus so much on Kat. She needed to die but we didn't need to know all about her. It was too much like the Lost episode "Two for the road."

I still liked it better than last weeks stupid flashback boxing crap.

[Magister]

Except for maybe the Cylon stuff, you could just skip this episode and not miss anything on the story line.

[DLL66]

Seems like a lot of belly aching going on!!! This episode isn't as bad as a lot of people are claiming it is!! It was alright!!

[omelet1978]

BSG isn't as good this season. They have had some good episodes, but ever since they got off that planet it seems like they are just on autopilot.

Would it be a safe bet to assume that Ronald Moore planned making the first half of season be on New Caprica. Then after the season 2 finale it did not test very well, so they were forced to make changes......ie the New Caprica arc was shortened to like 4 episodes, and now they are stuggling to come up with some fresh ideas.

Don't get me wrong the average episode is pretty good, but it just doesn't seem to have the punch it did in season 1 & 2.

[danterner]

Remember that the Zeus and Jupiter are counterparts in Greek and Roman Mythology, so in essence, they are references to the same god.

In fact, the name "Jupiter" is derived directly from "Zeus" - When the Romans co-opted Zeus and the other Greek gods for their Roman pantheon, they referred to him in Latin as "Zeus Pater," (father Zeus). Over time, Zeus Pater came to be pronounced "Jupiter."

[Rob Helmerichs]

In fact, the name "Jupiter" is derived directly from "Zeus" - When the Romans co-opted Zeus and the other Greek gods for their Roman pantheon, they referred to him in Latin as "Zeus Pater," (father Zeus). Over time, Zeus Pater came to be pronounced "Jupiter."
Uh, not quite. "Jove pater" [or "Iove pater"] became "Jupiter."

The god if not the name was, however, carried over at least in part from the Greek Zeus.

[danterner]

Uh, not quite. "Jove pater" [or "Iove pater"] became "Jupiter."

Okay - I bow to the master. :)
I knew it was something along those lines. In my defense, a little quick research seems to suggest that there are at least a few other people out there that compare it to Zeus Pater: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Jupiter

Tying this back into a discussion of BSG, it's kind of interesting, though maybe not relevant, that Col. Tighe now is one-eyed, like Odin (Tyr). Odin gave up his eye for knowledge, as I recall. Seems like Tighe got the short end of the stick. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyr

[gchance]

Sebastian Spence made an appearance again... why do they bother? He was on for one scene and had no lines. I think he had one line on his previous appearance. Either his career has gone downhill since First Wave, or they're just sorely underutilizing him.

Greg

[Anubys]

Sebastian Spence made an appearance again... why do they bother? He was on for one scene and had no lines. I think he had one line on his previous appearance. Either his career has gone downhill since First Wave, or they're just sorely underutilizing him.

Greg

who is he? I went on IMDB but still didn't recognize him...

[Hersheytx]

Wow the time warp is still alive and well as I feel like I am stuck in the horrible season 2.5 again. The writers got them selves into this by not having a real plan and it is coming back to bite them in the ass. Hero got a 1.3 rating that is well below the cancelled SG1. If the show gets canned it will be all because of ron moore reading to much of his own good press and getting arrogant. It is a shame the show really got great during season 2.0 since then has been a disaster. It is funny I could careless about any of the characters on the galactica anymore hell outside tigh I actually hate them. The only thing that really interests me now is the cylons.

It seems the writers are still following the original arc of 1970s series. This was a direct redo when Starbuck and Apollo had to blow up the mines through the star cluster.
Having Kat die was a just a more interesting subplot of getting through the star cluster.
The next step is to see if Baltar will be recaptured by the Galatica. That would make things very interesting.
If you watched the original series this was one of the last episodes that gave the Galactica hope of finding Earth. And captured Baltar.
I liked the episode. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms about a character deciding to make amends for her past by going above and beyond the duty of her uniform. Heck, every John Wayne movie (WWII plot) was the same thing.

[TAsunder]

Not sure why everyone is so up in arms about a character deciding to make amends for her past by going above and beyond the duty of her uniform. Heck, every John Wayne movie (WWII plot) was the same thing.

Let me put your mind at ease: no one is up in arms over that. It's other problems with the episode.

[rich]

The next step is to see if Baltar will be recaptured by the Galactica. That would make things very interesting.
If you watched the original series this was one of the last episodes that gave the Galactica hope of finding Earth. And captured Baltar.
True, but so far, no signs of Count Iblis.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Let me put your mind at ease: no one is up in arms over that. It's other problems with the episode.
...although if her past was going to become such a major issue, it might have been nice to have seen a hint that she even HAD a past at some point...

That's my biggest issue with the show. I still like it, but their live-in-the-moment attitude bothers me more and more.

[classicX]

Pretty boring episode. When they were waiting for Kat with her ship, you already knew what was going to happen.

I was hoping for Cylon scenes - I want to know who the other five are!

[Mars Rocket]

I didn't mind the show - it was no worse than the boxing ep that everybody loved - that was just filler to explain some upcoming relationship issues between Starbuck and Apollo, and served no other purpose in the grand scheme. Staging it all in a boxing scenario is trite, but lets the writers up the tension easily.

BTW, did anybody notice the handwritten note posted to the wall above where Starbuck puts the picture of Kat? It said "God rest their souls...". It must have been posted by a Cylon...

[cyke93]

can someone clarify for me. the 7 models that we know of, they do not know the faces of the other 5?

and what exactly does the lady in the water (who grabbed baltar's arm) do ? what's her function? i think i missed that in previous episodes

[Stormspace]

weird thing: I turned on CC in the middle so I could understand what Xena and Baltar were talking about...they kept talking about the God Jupiter but the CC kept showing Zeus...

I'm sure the producer changed the dialogue at the last minute, but I figured I'd point out the discrepancy...

It's interesting since all the gods they've mentioned to date were Greek Gods, Jupiter is a Roman god.

[Stormspace]

can someone clarify for me. the 7 models that we know of, they do not know the faces of the other 5?

and what exactly does the lady in the water (who grabbed baltar's arm) do ? what's her function? i think i missed that in previous episodes

She's a hybrid. They function as the CPU of the base star and perform autonomic functions.

[kaszeta]

It's interesting since all the gods they've mentioned to date were Greek Gods, Jupiter is a Roman god.

Not all mythological references were Greek. Pegasus was a "Mercury-class" Battlestar. And there have been several Norse references as well (Ragnar anchorage and the Valkyrie)

[Stormspace]

Not all mythological references were Greek. Pegasus was a "Mercury-class" Battlestar. And there have been several Norse references as well (Ragnar anchorage and the Valkyrie)

I guess that should have been a Hermes class battlestar. :) I suppose we'll end up with another SG-1 where they are fast and loose with all the mythological gods. Makes you wonder at the connection between the 13th colony and the other twelve though.

[gchance]

who is he? I went on IMDB but still didn't recognize him...

Sebastian Spence played the lead role, Cade Foster, in the Sci-Fi Channel show First Wave. It was part of a lineup they were calling "Sci-Fi 2.0" back in '98 that later included Farscape.

The show was about an alien invasion that was supposedly foretold by Nostradamus. Foster's wife was murdered as part of the conspiracy, and he was framed for her murder. He hooked up with this conspiracy nut named Eddie, who if I recall had a website about everything. The aliens were called the Gua. One Gua who was chasing him finally came to his aid, named Joshua.

Joshua was played by Roger Cross, who is now on 24 (Curtis Manning). In the final season they brought in Traci Lords, who was surprisingly good.

The series was great, so was Sebastian Spence. When he popped up on the Pegasus, I thought that maybe he'd end up a regular character on Galactica, but they didn't show him at all after that. His name was in the opening credits for Pegasus even. He disappeared after that, but then was sort of mulling around in the background in this one. Actually when everyone was divvying up the food, he was one of the guys. Didn't say a word. :)

Greg

[nedthelab]

Sorry If this is stupid, -- I watch the show on a regular bassis but perhaps missed an ep or spaced out, but what's with the Minority Report Pre-Cog rip off non Cylon "Thing".

"Do You See"

[Figaro]

Sorry If this is stupid, -- I watch the show on a regular bassis but perhaps missed an ep or spaced out, but what's with the Minority Report Pre-Cog rip off non Cylon "Thing".

"Do You See"
That's been asked and answered. She is a hybrid, see above.

[wedgecon]

OK I am confused, did Kat die? Was the promotion real or just a way on honering her death.

When I watched the episode I thought Kat was going to live and become the CAG.

[Figaro]

OK I am confused, did Kat die? Was the promotion real or just a way on honering her death.

When I watched the episode I thought Kat was going to live and become the CAG.
Dead.

[Rob Helmerichs]

They promoted her when she was dying in the hospital. Presumably, Apollo will get the position back now that she has died.

[Figaro]

They promoted her when she was dying in the hospital. Presumably, Apollo will get the position back now that she has died.
That fool just can't hold a job now can he?

[JamesB]

Am I off base in thinking the fact the star cluster was too big to go around is absurd? What was preventing the entire fleet from jumping around the star cluster? Even if 20 jumps were necessary that is better than taking a chance on loosing ships and lives. We do not know how far they can jump, but we do know they can jump at about half hour intervals. So if 20 jumps were required, then no more than 10 hours.

This really bothered me. Am I the only one?

Thanks

[Stormspace]

I with you there. The whole jump drive thing seems to be used when it's convenient if you ask me. I mean we have no idea how fast the fleet is moving or with what regularity they make jumps. If I had to guess I'd say they jump once per day with the balance of the time spent shuttling people and goods between ships and possibly scouting expeditions to the next jump point. That's a guess.

It's also likely that they conserve jump fuel for escapes from the Cylon when they show up. Scout, jump, recalculate jump point, scout again.

[rich]

She's a hybrid. They function as the CPU of the base star and perform autonomic functions.She also functions as a Plot Device. :)

[dswallow]

She also functions as a Plot Device. :)
More like a Plotless Device.

[Squeege96]

Man, tough crowd this week! Or is everyone just sore that Heroes isn't on this week?

[gchance]

She also functions as a Plot Device. :)

Plot complication on scanner now, Captain, it appears to be just what we need: a giant space wedgie coming at us at great velocity.

Greg

[Mars Rocket]

Am I off base in thinking the fact the star cluster was too big to go around is absurd?

However big it is, then can cross it's diameter in two jumps, so going around it shouldn't take more than 6 or 7 jumps. That's assuming it's spherical, but if it's not than there would be a shorter way around it somehow. This really bugged me as well, even though I can usually overlook scientific stupidity in this kind of show.

Also, how come none of the pilots had sunglasses on? It would have helped quite a bit...

[Stormspace]

Plot complication on scanner now, Captain, it appears to be just what we need: a giant space wedgie coming at us at great velocity.

Greg

Wouldn't that be "ludicrous speed?"

[MickeS]

Also, how come none of the pilots had sunglasses on? It would have helped quite a bit...
Moore mentioned this in the podcast, that really, they should have just had visors and it would have solved the problem. He just attributed it to dramatic license, that it wouldn't be very cinematic if we couldn't see them. Same reason, he pointed out, that the helmets have little lights inside them so we can see their faces.

It seems to me, based on the podcasts of which I've listened to all of them, that sometimes they are just too quick to say "ah well, there is some explanation for this, but we can't come up with one... well, it doesn't matter anyway, let's do it". I get what they're doing, but they seem to be too eager to come up with dramatic plot-points, and less interested in making sure those plot points are actually valid or consistent with what we know about the show.

I can accept this for a while, but when they keep doing this time after time, it gets a little much...

[Bierboy]

Wouldn't that be "ludicrous speed?""Spaceballs" - ROTFLMAO.

[Church AV Guy]

It seems the writers are still following the original arc of 1970s series. This was a direct redo when Starbuck and Apollo had to blow up the mines through the star cluster.
Having Kat die was a just a more interesting subplot of getting through the star cluster.
The next step is to see if Baltar will be recaptured by the Galatica. That would make things very interesting.
If you watched the original series this was one of the last episodes that gave the Galactica hope of finding Earth. And captured Baltar.
I liked the episode. Not sure why everyone is so up in arms about a character deciding to make amends for her past by going above and beyond the duty of her uniform. Heck, every John Wayne movie (WWII plot) was the same thing.

Boomer was also part of that mission in the 1978 show arc. So was the food crisis, so that just didn't come out of the blue. In the original version, they completely shrouded the Viper's cockpits and had the pilots fly by instruments only (what an idea for a space ship!) so the brightness would not have been a problem for them. This was also part of the first three episodes of the show, so it happened much earlier in the story then, than in this version.

The info about Earth's location came from one of the "angels" of Count Iblis' class of being. We haven't seen that class of uber-being in this version of the show.

There does not seem to be an Imperious leader either, at least, not one we've seen so far.

If the base ships are controlled by a hybrid, what two distinct strains are being bred together to make the hybrid? A hybrid of, or from, what sources?

[cheesesteak]

I hate Starbuck.

[Mars Rocket]

If the base ships are controlled by a hybrid, what two distinct strains are being bred together to make the hybrid? A hybrid of, or from, what sources?

I'm guessing carrots and pudding.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Maybe they know as much about genetics as they know about computer networking..? :D

[cheesesteak]

I thought it was a skin job/toaster hybrid.

[Magister]

I hate Starbuck.

I see zero leadership qualities in Starbuck. Why in any sort of command?

[Stormspace]

I see zero leadership qualities in Starbuck. Why in any sort of command?

Likely it's due to skill alone that she has her rank. She can impart her experience on others even when they might not think her way is the best. She may also be a hot shot strategist in the cockpit even though her people skills are lacking.

[Anubys]

Likely it's due to skill alone that she has her rank. She can impart her experience on others even when they might not think her way is the best. She may also be a hot shot strategist in the cockpit even though her people skills are lacking.

she's also their best sniper...

[Stormspace]

she's also their best sniper...

Yeah, in the original Starbuck was almost the best at everything. Quickdraw, Viper Pilot, gambling, etc... He was just good at everything all around. I guess this was translated to the new show as well and certainly explains why she hasn't been put in the brig permanently. In their situation you just can't have one of your best pilots cooling their jets when your life depends on them being in the cockpit fighting for you.

[dtivouser]

Half Cylon, half spaceship I guess. They sort of glossed over the hybrid thing.

[Figaro]

The hybrids are like spocks brain!

[TAsunder]

Starbuck has demonstrated that she is good at coming up with tactical plans as well.

[Figaro]

Dont forget that she is also the Fleet slut.

[cheesesteak]

I don't mind Starbuck having rank and title, her skill level and experience merits that. She's just too nasty a piece of work to have any command duties. There should be a line connecting her to Lee on the org chart but nobody below her.

[MickeS]

If the base ships are controlled by a hybrid, what two distinct strains are being bred together to make the hybrid? A hybrid of, or from, what sources?
I think she's a hybrid of "that's a cool idea!" and "i have no idea where we're going with this".

[Bribo]

If the base ships are controlled by a hybrid, what two distinct strains are being bred together to make the hybrid? A hybrid of, or from, what sources?

A piece of cheese, chalk, and a beard.

[dswallow]

I think she's a hybrid of "that's a cool idea!" and "i have no idea where we're going with this".
Don't forget the "we found this old bathtub in the closet and don't want to pay union rates to throw it away" part.

[Stormspace]

I think she's a hybrid of "that's a cool idea!" and "i have no idea where we're going with this".

I agree. They had two obvious options with the base ships. Make them larger versions of the raiders with a large hard shell and goo inside to control the ship, or purely mechanical. To be different they chose a third which is to have the ship controlled by a humanoid biological. It's certainly not the obvious choice and given the glimpses we had of the hanger deck there still is a certain amount of goo involved in the ships construction to tie the concept back to the Raider insides.

[Stormspace]

If the base ships are controlled by a hybrid, what two distinct strains are being bred together to make the hybrid? A hybrid of, or from, what sources?

A piece of cheese, chalk, and a beard.

If I had to guess, I'd say the hybrids are a human/cylon hybrid. Possibly a failed experiment to convert humans into cylons.

[Church AV Guy]

The Hybrid reminds me of that Golgafrincham captain that wanted to stay in the bath his whole life (Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy). So the hybrid are a cross between the Golgafrincham captain, and the idea that if you babble incomprehensible stuff long enough it will appear profound to SOMEONE eventually.

Starbuck is a very hurt person who takes it out on the enemy, which is good in the short term, but in the long term, is very, very, bad. At least in real life it would be, but in a fictional drama, it might never have a real down side. She is a great pilot, and a good tactician, but a broken human. What the Cylons did to her on New Caprica sure didn't help the situation.

Does anyone have any idea how they are replacing destroyed ships? Eventually they will have to have replacement parts of the Vipers will just fall apart. Are they still training new pilots?

Is Roslyn's plan of having lots of babies as quickly as possible not working? I don't see the number of survivors slowly creeping up.

[Anubys]

I don't understand where people get this expectations that everything has to be explained and detailed immediately...if you want to know "who done it", read the last page...if you want to watch things unfold, watch the upcoming shows!

[rich]

If the base ships are controlled by a hybrid, what two distinct strains are being bred together to make the hybrid? A hybrid of, or from, what sources?Maybe a Cylon and a Guild Navigator?

[kaszeta]

Does anyone have any idea how they are replacing destroyed ships? Eventually they will have to have replacement parts of the Vipers will just fall apart. Are they still training new pilots?

Before Pegasus bit it, one of the episodes mentioned that they had managed to start manufacturing Vipers on Pegasus.

I'm guessing that if they really needed to, they could probably develop some of the missing tech on Galactica. In the meantime, they got a lot more vipers from Pegasus.

[zalusky]

As well as pegasus pilots. After all they all abandon'd the pegasus.

[busyba]

I don't understand where people get this expectations that everything has to be explained and detailed immediately...if you want to know "who done it", read the last page...if you want to watch things unfold, watch the upcoming shows!
Is the last page available on BitTorrent? ;)

[Fish Man]

However big it is, then can cross it's diameter in two jumps, so going around it shouldn't take more than 6 or 7 jumps. That's assuming it's spherical, but if it's not than there would be a shorter way around it somehow. This really bugged me as well, even though I can usually overlook scientific stupidity in this kind of show.



The "feasible to go through it but not feasible to go around it" plot device works if the star cluster is thin in one dimension and thick (long) on both of the other dimensions. Like a wall. Very long in "Y" and "Z" and thin in "X", for example. They needed to traverse it in the "X" direction.

Having made an apology for that particular plot device...

I'm in the "this episode was rather lame" crowd.

Having said that, though, a lame episode of BSG is superior to the best episodes of a lot of the shows on TV.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Is the last page available on BitTorrent? ;)
Considering the writers don't seem to have a clue what's even ON the last page, I doubt it! :D

[Stormspace]

The "feasible to go through it but not feasible to go around it" plot device works if the star cluster is thin in one dimension and thick (long) on both of the other dimensions. Like a wall. Very long in "Y" and "Z" and thin in "X", for example. They needed to traverse it in the "X" direction.

Having made an apology for that particular plot device...

I'm in the "this episode was rather lame" crowd.

Having said that, though, a lame episode of BSG is superior to the best episodes of a lot of the shows on TV.

I really thought of it more like following a trail. Stray from the trail and you might miss something important, like a turn you should have made. Following the trail as given would be the best route. Given that however you'd think the trailblazers would have found a safer way. :)

[zalusky]

The show is not about Science Fiction. Its about how people deal with situations. If you read/listen to the producers blogs, they will tell you that over and over.

They just happen to use BSG universe to tell the story. They could use Moses walking through the desert, or Hogans Heroes, or ... to tell the exact same stories.

[dswallow]

The show is not about Science Fiction. Its about how people deal with situations. If you read/listen to the producers blogs, they will tell you that over and over.

They just happen to use BSG universe to tell the story. They could use Moses walking through the desert, or Hogans Heroes, or ... to tell the exact same stories.
That's really a pretty lame excuse for being such poor writers that they can't manage to create a consistent universe for their characters to exist and interact within. Plenty of shows, science fiction and otherwise, manage to do this well.

[Tsiehta]

The show is not about Science Fiction. Its about how people deal with situations. If you read/listen to the producers blogs, they will tell you that over and over.

They just happen to use BSG universe to tell the story. They could use Moses walking through the desert, or Hogans Heroes, or ... to tell the exact same stories.

unfortunately, it is a TV show, not a blog-show. I shouldn't have to go to the Web to find out the "meaning" behind a show. It should be part of the product in the intended medium.

To be honest, your comment has only served to discount the show. Kind of back handed compliment. Makes the BSG world pretty insignificant.

[Mars Rocket]

The "feasible to go through it but not feasible to go around it" plot device works if the star cluster is thin in one dimension and thick (long) on both of the other dimensions. Like a wall. Very long in "Y" and "Z" and thin in "X", for example. They needed to traverse it in the "X" direction.


But star clusters can't exist like that (for long) due to gravity. That's why the big clusters are "globular".

Having said that, though, a lame episode of BSG is superior to the best episodes of a lot of the shows on TV.

I agree.

[latrobe7]

I, for one, am rapidly losing interest in what was once my favorite show. I certainly hope they're using the formula where you come up the beginning and the end of a series then fill the middle with other plotlines. That way the end may approach being as good as the beginning and I'll be able to buy a DVD edition that only has the episodes that deal with the core story. I mean, I hope the Cylon 'plan' is something real that the writers have had in their 'Show-Bible' from day one, not some lame mad-lib script concoction they eventually throw out that tries to tie in everything they've made up since.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I mean, I hope the Cylon 'plan' is something real that the writers have had in their 'Show-Bible' from day one, not some lame mad-lib script concoction they eventually throw out that tries to tie in everything they've made up since.
My hopes for that have pretty much evaporated. The more they show of the Cylons, the less sense they make, which to me says they're not moving towards an end point, but rather just away from their starting point.

And I wouldn't object to their abuse of science (in fact, I resigned myself to it during the second season) so much if they didn't show the same live in the moment attitude towards everything else (especially characterization; it bugs me when they suddenly introduce character traits that not only have never been hinted at, but actively contradict things that have gone on before, like Apollo and the Space Hooker). BG is very cool in the moment, but a great show would tie all those cool moments together into a cohesive show, and these people simply have no interest in thinking that much. And that's sad; they fooled me for quite a while into thinking this could be a great show.

[MickeS]

I think the problem, or part of it at least, is that they are trying to do too many stand-alone episodes, like "Black Market". I don't mind them, but they don't work very well within the BSG universe. "The Passage" was written by an "outsider" too, and there's just something that doesn't click with these one-off episodes (with some exceptions of course).

Moore is always talking about how they are trimming storylines and scenes to fit in one episode, and how the multi-part episodes have come about because they simply couldn't do the stories in one episodes. Often when he talks about this, it's evident that they are sacrificing much of the ongoing stories, motivations and explanations so they can wrap up the sub-plots in one episode. That's not a good way to do it IMO - we don't CARE about a subplot about Kat or a story about some hitherto unknown guy from Adamas past. We care about the overall story, and the regular characters.

I think they should just abandon the stand-alone plot lines and concentrate on doing more continuous stories in the "soap format", that's when the show works best.

[madscientist]

Maybe a Cylon and a Guild Navigator?Aha! Maybe Baltar will show them how to process Spice!

[Crrink]

The show is not about Science Fiction. Its about how people deal with situations. If you read/listen to the producers blogs, they will tell you that over and over.

They just happen to use BSG universe to tell the story. They could use Moses walking through the desert, or Hogans Heroes, or ... to tell the exact same stories.
:shrug:
Well, then the producers probably shouldn't have chosen an existing SF franchise to make a new show that is not about SF.
Besides, I know from these discussions that Moore has a background on other SF shows, so that really sounds like a weak excuse for poor writing and planning when it comes to any consistency in the BG universe.

And, as has been pointed out in subsequent posts, they're not really telling very good stories anymore anyway, so they've got a lot to work on, IMO, of course.

[zalusky]

You guys are ranting about inconsistencies but could you be specific about something inconsistant.

Granted they are bringing up back stories we might not have seen before to explain motivations but a lot of shows have done that. Is it the fact that people want more explanation of the BSG universe and they are trickling it out very slowly. Do you actually want them to get to Earth?

As was posted I can respect people having difficulty with the jumping between isolated stories and continuing stories but I wouldnt call them bad stories. Their just not stories you want to hear.

[dswallow]

Do you actually want them to get to Earth?
If they do make it that far before the series is axed, I fully expect the storylines will include flying motorcycles if the current writing staff is still around.

[cheesesteak]

My big problem is that I'm starting to not like some of the characters. I no longer like Helo and I don't want Starbuck on my tv screen any more.

[Jonathan_S]

also everyone here keeps complaining about stuff coming out of no were do you get the saying "coming to a head" the stuff has been going on just because they never hint at it or show anything before they do a whole episode about it doesn't mean the stuff isn't going on under the surface.There is a well known rule of thumb for drama that says if you kill someone with a knife in scene III you should have been shown the knife in Scene I.

That type of thing shouldn't be sprung on an audience out of nowhere. It if is going to be important to the plot it should be something that "they never hint at it or show anything before they do a whole episode about it". Not hinting at it is sloppy writing, and creates bad drama.

After all anything we aren't told about could be happening in the background. But you wouldn't want to find out next episode (for example) that Starbuck has been pregnant for months, the whole crew knew about it, even though nothing we've seen has shown any indication that the crew knew about it.

If they were going to have a problem with contaminated food this episode, there should have been at least a mention of the prep work last episode (if not earlier).

If Kat had a shady past she was trying to hide there should have been some hints. One way would be to have her have too much knowledge of smuggling. That could have come out either when the fleet was cut off from New Caprica in terms of knowledge of how to evade sensors and sneak into a planet, or in the otherwise bad Black Market episode in hints or scenes of her either relapsing and helping smuggle, or again showing too much knowledge in tracking down and busting smugglers.
Another could have been either too interested in, or too vehement against stronger drugs. Not just overusing stims, which all the pilots were doing to a degree, but something more dangerous that she would have encountered while smuggling drugs.
Another would to have had her not be used to her acquired name back in the beginning of the series, or to have a poster on the matchup wall showing her new name and the picture of someone else.

There are so many ways that the writers could have let us know something wasn't quite what it seemed with Kat. But they didn't. By all indications they hadn't even thought about it until this episode.


To fit in hints and clues for the dramatic setup, you need to plan ahead far enough to know what to add to earlier episodes. That planning is a requirement for good drama. But it is becoming more and more apparent that (unlike the Cylons ;)) the writers don't really have a plan.

[7thton]

My big problem is that I'm starting to not like some of the characters. I no longer like Helo and I don't want Starbuck on my tv screen any more.
I agree. Starbuck is just flat out unlikeable. Not in the "love to hate" sort of way....just in the "she really drags down any episode that she appears in" way.

[Jonathan_S]

This was one of those, "wouldn't it be cool if?" episodes gone bad. What was the point of the radiation arm band if galactica and apollo made the ultimate call anyway? Was someone supposed to say, "I'm black, let's go and abandon my ship"?Why were they waiting until everyone had found their ship before jumping? Wouldn't it make sense for each Raptor and Civilian ship to jump out of the radiation as soon as they hook up, rather than waiting the additional time while all the ships were found? (You could still have a set max search time before the pilot should give up)

That would have, on average, lowered the radiation exposure to both the civilian ship's reduced crews, and more importantly reduced the exposure to the Raptor pilots who had to make multiple runs.

For that matter, the Raptors can attach themselves to other ships. Why use the Raptor's jump engine at all? Wouldn't it be easier to latch on to the civie ship, let the civie ship jump them both into the nebula, and then the raptor wouldn't have to search at all, just pass coordinates as soon as the jump computer calculates them.
(Yes, that would kill the dramatic search scenes...)

Heck, while we're busy pointing out inconsistencies, how come Galatica's hull, which has stood up to multiple nuclear warheads is getting shredded by the nebula faster than the Raptor hulls? If it does that much damage to Galactica it should be vaporizing the poor little Raptors.

[MickeS]

If they were going to have a problem with contaminated food this episode, there should have been at least a mention of the prep work last episode (if not earlier).

If Kat had a shady past she was trying to hide there should have been some hints. One way would be to have her have too much knowledge of smuggling. That could have come out either when the fleet was cut off from New Caprica in terms of knowledge of how to evade sensors and sneak into a planet, or in the otherwise bad Black Market episode in hints or scenes of her either relapsing and helping smuggle, or again showing too much knowledge in tracking down and busting smugglers.
Another could have been either too interested in, or too vehement against stronger drugs. Not just overusing stims, which all the pilots were doing to a degree, but something more dangerous that she would have encountered while smuggling drugs.
Another would to have had her not be used to her acquired name back in the beginning of the series, or to have a poster on the matchup wall showing her new name and the picture of someone else.

I agree, and like I wrote in an earlier post, I think the show would work much better if they dropped the stand-alone aspect of the episodes, and let everything run across the entire season.

It's fine to do standalone episodes when you do a show about "events" rather than about characters (see Star Trek, for example), but when a show is about the characters and their interactions (like most soaps), it is essential that you let storylines play out over multiple episodes to make it effective.

Speaking of soaps, if you look at some of the more successful prime-time ones, like "Dallas", "Dynasty", "Melrose Place" and "Beverly Hills, 90210" they all started out with stand-alone episodes, but abandoned that, with much success (no comparisons to BSG in any other aspects :)).

[Anubys]

I agree, and like I wrote in an earlier post, I think the show would work much better if they dropped the stand-alone aspect of the episodes, and let everything run across the entire season.

I just don't know if there's any series (aside from soaps) that do not have stand-alone...it's just a natural part of the whole thing...

[Church AV Guy]

...it bugs me when they suddenly introduce character traits that not only have never been hinted at, but actively contradict things that have gone on before, like Apollo and the Space Hooker...
Shouldn't that be Socialator?

It was a serious breach of story etiquette for them to have a survival-level problem of contaminated food, without mentioning food stores in at least one previous episode. This isn't like the water episode, which was only the second episode overall. In this case, there was plenty of time for foreshadowing, they just didn't bother.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I just don't know if there's any series (aside from soaps) that do not have stand-alone...it's just a natural part of the whole thing...
But for BG, "stand-alone" means it doesn't fit in with the rest of the series, not that it doesn't tie in with the rest of the series. And that can be really annoying.

Why, to bring up the Space Hooker example again, did they have to rectroactively change the character of Apollo because they thought it would be cool if he was having an ongoing affair with a Space Hooker? A better show would have thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Apollo were having an affair with a Space Hooker?" And then, instead of just doing it and pretending that it had been going on all along, they would set it up in advance, so that when it happened, it wouldn't violate what they had previously done with the character.

Same thing with Starbuck, who literally went from hero of the fleet to drunken embarrassment between episodes.

It's just kind of insulting that they don't bother setting things up at all, as if we're too stupid to notice. Even Law & Order does a better job of continuity.

[classicX]

But for BG, "stand-alone" means it doesn't fit in with the rest of the series, not that it doesn't tie in with the rest of the series. And that can be really annoying.

Why, to bring up the Space Hooker example again, did they have to rectroactively change the character of Apollo because they thought it would be cool if he was having an ongoing affair with a Space Hooker? A better show would have thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Apollo were having an affair with a Space Hooker?" And then, instead of just doing it and pretending that it had been going on all along, they would set it up in advance, so that when it happened, it wouldn't violate what they had previously done with the character.

Same thing with Starbuck, who literally went from hero of the fleet to drunken embarrassment between episodes.

It's just kind of insulting that they don't bother setting things up at all, as if we're too stupid to notice. Even Law & Order does a better job of continuity.

+12

When I first started watching, I figured the Cylon plan was "known" by the producers in advance - now I know that's not true.

These other "introductions" are just further evidence of this - if you can't think ahead on the small stuff, you can't think ahead on the big stuff.

[Sirius Black]

To quote a classic line from William Shatner's appearance on SNL a while back: "It's just a TV Show."

I think we are being too hard on the writers. They are obviously moving towards something with the introduction of the baseship and what's going on there. Do you judge a book like "The Stand" by the first 100 pages, when the book is over 1000 pages? Do you judge "The Lord of the Rings" by the first book in the series? Of course not (at I would hope not).

The stand alone episodes are like chapters in an overall story. I will admit that bringing in new characteristics is disappointing but I always go back to Bill Shatner's famous words.

[busyba]

Do you judge a book like "The Stand" by the first 100 pages, when the book is over 1000 pages? Do you judge "The Lord of the Rings" by the first book in the series? Of course not (at I would hope not).
Did the first 100 pages of The Stand and the first book of the LotR series suck this bad too? If they didn't, your analogy might not be totally apt. :)

[Granny]

But for BG, "stand-alone" means it doesn't fit in with the rest of the series, not that it doesn't tie in with the rest of the series. And that can be really annoying.

Why, to bring up the Space Hooker example again, did they have to rectroactively change the character of Apollo because they thought it would be cool if he was having an ongoing affair with a Space Hooker? A better show would have thought, "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Apollo were having an affair with a Space Hooker?" And then, instead of just doing it and pretending that it had been going on all along, they would set it up in advance, so that when it happened, it wouldn't violate what they had previously done with the character.

Same thing with Starbuck, who literally went from hero of the fleet to drunken embarrassment between episodes.

It's just kind of insulting that they don't bother setting things up at all, as if we're too stupid to notice. Even Law & Order does a better job of continuity.

+++

I find it a bit insulting to be told that the explanation for all the inconsistencies is in a podcast somewhere. I barely have time to read the threads here on the shows I like. I don't have time to listen/read some producers inner musings on what he had for breakfast interspersed with nuggets of information about why they decided to sacrifice believability for flash. If you feel you have to make excuses and explanations, maybe you should have done it better in the first place.

[Tsiehta]

+++

I find it a bit insulting to be told that the explanation for all the inconsistencies is in a podcast somewhere. I barely have time to read the threads here on the shows I like. I don't have time to listen/read some producers inner musings on what he had for breakfast interspersed with nuggets of information about why they decided to sacrifice believability for flash. If you feel you have to make excuses and explanations, maybe you should have done it better in the first place.

+1,000 :up: :up: :up:

[Figaro]

+++

I find it a bit insulting to be told that the explanation for all the inconsistencies is in a podcast somewhere. I barely have time to read the threads here on the shows I like. I don't have time to listen/read some producers inner musings on what he had for breakfast interspersed with nuggets of information about why they decided to sacrifice believability for flash. If you feel you have to make excuses and explanations, maybe you should have done it better in the first place.


You don't watch Lost then do you?

/I had to say it.
//At least I didn't mention Heroes
///Oops!

[vikingguy]

To quote a classic line from William Shatner's appearance on SNL a while back: "It's just a TV Show."

I think we are being too hard on the writers. They are obviously moving towards something with the introduction of the baseship and what's going on there. Do you judge a book like "The Stand" by the first 100 pages, when the book is over 1000 pages? Do you judge "The Lord of the Rings" by the first book in the series? Of course not (at I would hope not).

The stand alone episodes are like chapters in an overall story. I will admit that bringing in new characteristics is disappointing but I always go back to Bill Shatner's famous words.

I don't think we are being hard at all. It took almost a full season of sucking for people to finally start to say something. The ratings have sunk to rock bottom levels. It is not just a few internet geeks it is 100,000s of thousands of people not watching any more because of the writing.

It has been apparent to me since season 2.5 the writers have no clue where this thing is going. They had to do the stupid time jump just to have something to write about. They should of had a plan with a begining middle and a logical end. It did not have to be as detailed as JMS did with B5 but something. Right now the show drops and picks up plot points like it is going out of style. The show has really gotten no where in the last 20+ episodes.

I guess from season 1 and the build up I was expecting a show like B5 where there is this giant grand arc novel like. Instead it has turned into a normal stand alone episode show. I could of missed almost every episode this season and missed no major plot points.

The writers have spent so much time making the characters flawed they forgot about redemtion or likeable quality's. I hate the characters on the battle star star buck is a drunken slut adama went from the baddest mother to a crying lap dog. Helo betraded the whole human race with no consiquences. I won't get into crap like blanders. The only thing interesting any more is the cylone stuff but that is wearing thin because it is not moving forward. Ron moore should start to watch FX to learn how to do flawed characters who have likeable qualitys like the characters on rescue me and the shield minus shane.

It is a real shame there is almost no scifi on TV any more. I really want to like BSG but the last 12 months have been substandard.

[Rob Helmerichs]

And the big difference with Lost is that Lost is frustrating people on purpose. They really DO have a plan (at least, they've always said they do, and I have seen no evidence to the contrary), and the frustration comes from the slowness with which they dole it out (which I actually like, dramatic tension and all, but I guess I can see where it would alienate people who want more now).

The podcast explanations on BG that I've heard about have always been along the lines of "Well, yeah, it doesn't really make sense, but we just thought it would be cool." (Or "Yeah, it doesn't make sense, but this isn't that kind of show.") And that's no way to run a show whose tag-line is "They Have A Plan."

[Stormspace]

..Heck, while we're busy pointing out inconsistencies, how come Galatica's hull, which has stood up to multiple nuclear warheads is getting shredded by the nebula faster than the Raptor hulls? If it does that much damage to Galactica it should be vaporizing the poor little Raptors.

I believe the damage we saw to the Galactica was leftovers from the free fall on New Caprica. We were seeing the radiation eating away at the edges of the ship. Another inconsistency, Galactica had a whole year to repair the starboard landing pod, yet we haven't seen that one being used. Adama knew he'd have to go back at some point, yet he didn't use any of his resources to repair the damage.

At least one of the writers should have sat down and detailed what exactly happened to the fleet during that year from a logistics point of view.

[mportuesi]

At least one of the writers should have sat down and detailed what exactly happened to the fleet during that year from a logistics point of view.

BSG is nearly as bad as Space:1999, which clearly had an underground factory manufacturing Eagles for each new episode.

I can overlook the bad science, even the really contradictory way they've treated the human cylons. It's harder for me to ignore the haphazard way in which the characters have been treated (especially Lee and Kara). And I'm really fed up with the writer's habit of introducing major plot points out of left field with no prior setup or foreshadowing. It's just lazy story telling.

I'm still interested in the Cylon arc, but like others here, I'm becoming convinced they really don't know where they're heading with it. I've dropped other shows cold turkey (X-Files) when the writers have demonstrated they're just making stuff up, rather than actually leading somewhere with the story. I've avoided entire shows (Lost) for the same reason.

BSG is just about ready to be pulled from my Season Pass list.

[TAsunder]

I just don't know if there's any series (aside from soaps) that do not have stand-alone...it's just a natural part of the whole thing...

Most HBO dramas. The Shield, Nip/Tuck and Rescue Me to a degree. Heroes. Dexter. All so far don't have true "stand alone" episodes that I can remember, because though there may be day-to-day stand alone content, each episode also developers an overall plot naturally by building on the previous episode.

BSG on the other hand, has the stand alone day-to-day, and just makes up overall plot on the spot, and only sometimes builds on it from previous episodes. That to me is worse than a show like Law and Order which has no overall plot. If you are going to have an overall plot, you shouldn't cheat and skip the part where you set up the plot. BSG does just that. Suddenly a plot element is completely redefined or introduced out of the blue. And it happens really frequently.

[cyke93]

Moore mentioned this in the podcast, that really, they should have just had visors and it would have solved the problem. He just attributed it to dramatic license, that it wouldn't be very cinematic if we couldn't see them. Same reason, he pointed out, that the helmets have little lights inside them so we can see their faces.

It seems to me, based on the podcasts of which I've listened to all of them, that sometimes they are just too quick to say "ah well, there is some explanation for this, but we can't come up with one... well, it doesn't matter anyway, let's do it". I get what they're doing, but they seem to be too eager to come up with dramatic plot-points, and less interested in making sure those plot points are actually valid or consistent with what we know about the show.

I can accept this for a while, but when they keep doing this time after time, it gets a little much...

having the lights on the helmet makes sense but seriously, sun visors or glasses, c'mon. the whole thing with the star cluster didnt make sense at all i get what they were trying to do but blah

[tivogurl]

A strong overall arc is what made galactica popular, but when did television producers stick with what's worked? The urge to "tinker" and "retool" and "change it up" is the bane of creative people. Then if ratings fall because of it, they fall prey to the illusion that what is needed to bolster ratings is to "be even more creative", rather than bring back the elements that delivered the original success of the show.

[Rob Helmerichs]

having the lights on the helmet makes sense but seriously, sun visors or glasses, c'mon. the whole thing with the star cluster didnt make sense at all i get what they were trying to do but blah
Actually, the lights make no sense whatsoever. If the light is inside the helmet, then they wouldn't be able to see if it was dark out (which, being space and all...).

As the podcast apparently noted, it's a TV/movie convention so the viewer can see INSIDE the helmet, and thus see the actor's face. But no matter how widespread it is, every time I see it it throws me completely out of the story, because I know that instead of an astronaut in space, I'm looking at an actor who is probably walking into things because he can't see.

[Anubys]

Actually, the lights make no sense whatsoever. If the light is inside the helmet, then they wouldn't be able to see if it was dark out (which, being space and all...).

As the podcast apparently noted, it's a TV/movie convention so the viewer can see INSIDE the helmet, and thus see the actor's face. But no matter how widespread it is, every time I see it it throws me completely out of the story, because I know that instead of an astronaut in space, I'm looking at an actor who is probably walking into things because he can't see.

I, for one, would welcome the old "ancient Egyptian" style helmets! :D

[Ereth]

Yeah, in the original Starbuck was almost the best at everything. Quickdraw, Viper Pilot, gambling, etc... He was just good at everything all around.

In the original, Starbuck was the flashiest, but Boomer was a better pilot.

There's no point where they come out and SAY that, but they demonstrate it in several episodes. He was quietly competent (and he wound up in Colonel Tighs job in Galactica 1980, the only surviving Viper pilot!).

[tgr131]

Greetings,

I really enjoy the show, and enjoyed the ep. It wasn't the best, but it was no "Spock's Brain" or "ST:Nemesis".

I guess my expectations are merely to be entertained for an hour. I don't really expect a bullet proof continuity. There was a time that someone finding a plot hole in a show could smugly bask in the glory of his friends around the water cooler for cleverly spotting a hole, and then still enjoy the show. I guess those days are long gone.

I really hope the show continues, because I continue to enjoy it.

David

[Rob Helmerichs]

There was a time that someone finding a plot hole in a show could smugly bask in the glory of his friends around the water cooler for cleverly spotting a hole, and then still enjoy the show. I guess those days are long gone.
Well, some of us would like a little more plot with our holes...

[tgr131]

LOL! Good one :D

[mportuesi]

I don't really expect a bullet proof continuity.

I don't either. But I expect the writers to at least try. Every episode brings a new contradiction that sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Church AV Guy]

If my bread had as many holes in it as the plots in Galactica, I couldn't use it. There has to be at least enough substance there to hold onto the sandwich filling.

If the star field was essentially spherical with this planet stuck somewhere close to the center, then they couldn't go around the star field. It wouldn't matter how they approached the planet, all courses would be essentially the same.

[philw1776]

My hopes for that have pretty much evaporated. The more they show of the Cylons, the less sense they make, which to me says they're not moving towards an end point, but rather just away from their starting point.

And I wouldn't object to their abuse of science (in fact, I resigned myself to it during the second season) so much if they didn't show the same live in the moment attitude towards everything else (especially characterization; it bugs me when they suddenly introduce character traits that not only have never been hinted at, but actively contradict things that have gone on before, like Apollo and the Space Hooker). BG is very cool in the moment, but a great show would tie all those cool moments together into a cohesive show, and these people simply have no interest in thinking that much. And that's sad; they fooled me for quite a while into thinking this could be a great show.

Bingo.
I suspended any and all 'hard' sci-fi perspective when I started. No problem, as the story concepts were very creative, unique and thought provoking. Initially skeptical, I bought into your mantra that "They have a plan".

Given all that's transpired since, I now say the writers exhibit a slacker mentality. They're too lazy to bother with any form of consistency, be it sci-fi technology or consistency in a story line. The Spylon storyline seems to be leading nowhere substantive or interesting. Maybe they'll surprise us. Meanwhile, I too choose to just 'live in the moment' and enjoy a more superficial show than what it could have been. Bummer.

[dswallow]

Wow, I remember getting raked over the coals for saying some of the things about this show that I did back at the beginning of this season that are now being said by almost everyone. It almost borders on disappointing; it's one time I really would've liked to have been proven wrong. :)

[zalusky]

If you guys want to listen to a roundtable with the producers and some of the leads fielding questions by fans, you can go here:

http://media.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/roundtable/roundtable.mp3

[vikingguy]

Wow, I remember getting raked over the coals for saying some of the things about this show that I did back at the beginning of this season that are now being said by almost everyone. It almost borders on disappointing; it's one time I really would've liked to have been proven wrong. :)

You were not the only one being raked over the coals. I quit posting in some of the BSG threads just to avoid it.

[kemajor]

What this show needs are the borg to start kicking the cylons butt!

- K

[bootedbear]

What this show needs are the borg to start kicking the cylons butt!


Incompatible platforms.

[TonyD79]

Most (if not all) of the issues everyone is having with BSG were there in the beginning (the lack of continuity, the introduction of characters and stories from left field that had no warning or no connection, etc.). They were just hidden by a strong central story and compelling characterizations.

The show is falling down because no character is consistent. Starbuck went from strong rebel-like hero to completely wasted PITA. Apollo went from bright-eyed guy on the rise to a given up fatty to an automaton in less than a year. Even the week-to-week relations Baltar has with the Cylons (remember, they are machines and should be more consistent) are so disconnected that it feels like you missed a whole episode everytime he and his Cylon mistresses show up.

Nothing is thought out. It is like one of those anthology comic books where they bring in differet artists and writers each issue to tell a story that surrounds the central character but doesn't involve them.

To watch a show, you have to CARE about someone. Who cares about anyone on this show anymore? They are thinking they are portraying flawed heroes but they are just portraying unlikeable people.

I blame the New Caprica storyline. It stunk and the method they jumped to it stunk. They had to abandon it and are scurrying around with nothing. The writers, unlike the Cylons, have no plan (come to think of it, neither do the Cylons).

Onto the Cylons. This is the worst thought out sci-fi race I have ever seen. What are basically elevated COMPUTERS see whatever reality they want to? They completely lost me there. They have no purpose. No meaning. I'd rather see the red-eyed guys from the original series. They had a purpose...follow orders.

This show is a mess. And getting messier. I hang on hoping that they right the "ship" but I no longer look forward to watching the show.

[Stormspace]

Most (if not all) of the issues everyone is having with BSG were there in the beginning (the lack of continuity, the introduction of characters and stories from left field that had no warning or no connection, etc.). They were just hidden by a strong central story and compelling characterizations.

The show is falling down because no character is consistent. Starbuck went from strong rebel-like hero to completely wasted PITA. Apollo went from bright-eyed guy on the rise to a given up fatty to an automaton in less than a year. Even the week-to-week relations Baltar has with the Cylons (remember, they are machines and should be more consistent) are so disconnected that it feels like you missed a whole episode everytime he and his Cylon mistresses show up.

Nothing is thought out. It is like one of those anthology comic books where they bring in differet artists and writers each issue to tell a story that surrounds the central character but doesn't involve them.

To watch a show, you have to CARE about someone. Who cares about anyone on this show anymore? They are thinking they are portraying flawed heroes but they are just portraying unlikeable people.

I blame the New Caprica storyline. It stunk and the method they jumped to it stunk. They had to abandon it and are scurrying around with nothing. The writers, unlike the Cylons, have no plan (come to think of it, neither do the Cylons).

Onto the Cylons. This is the worst thought out sci-fi race I have ever seen. What are basically elevated COMPUTERS see whatever reality they want to? They completely lost me there. They have no purpose. No meaning. I'd rather see the red-eyed guys from the original series. They had a purpose...follow orders.

This show is a mess. And getting messier. I hang on hoping that they right the "ship" but I no longer look forward to watching the show.

It's time for a centurion revolt. They slay all but a handful of the skin jobs and start giving orders, not taking them. :)

[MickeS]

It's time for a centurion revolt. They slay all but a handful of the skin jobs and start giving orders, not taking them. :)
That's not a bad idea, actually. :)

[jimborst]

Up until the point of the two captains (Adama and the captain of the Pegasis) ordering each other killed, I really enjoyed the show, in fact I thought that episode was one of the best. I found the next week a let down, I really believe Starbuck should have had to go through with the execution so that we could see Adama struggle with the ordering of the execution. After that it all went downhill for me.

Another thing, NEVER EVER put your Sci-fi show on a desolate planet, didn't we learn anything from Andromeda?

[Stormspace]

Up until the point of the two captains (Adama and the captain of the Pegasis) ordering each other killed, I really enjoyed the show, in fact I thought that episode was one of the best. I found the next week a let down, I really believe Starbuck should have had to go through with the execution so that we could see Adama struggle with the ordering of the execution. After that it all went downhill for me.

Another thing, NEVER EVER put your Sci-fi show on a desolate planet, didn't we learn anything from Andromeda?

Or Earth 2?

[Stormspace]

That's not a bad idea, actually. :)

Here's how is has to go down.

The conflict will have to bring the current cylon forces to just slightly more than Galactica's to keep them running without the Cylons having enough force to overrun them. A perpetual game of Cat and Mouse.

If not: The logical thing for the humans to do at this time to abandon the search for earth and let the Cylons go on while they use the distraction to travel elsewhere in the galaxy and start rebuilding their civilization. Let them find Earth, I'd say. We'll be half-way across the galaxy where you can't find us waiting on the day we are strong enough to return.

[Stormspace]

I believe the damage we saw to the Galactica was leftovers from the free fall on New Caprica. We were seeing the radiation eating away at the edges of the ship. Another inconsistency, Galactica had a whole year to repair the starboard landing pod, yet we haven't seen that one being used. Adama knew he'd have to go back at some point, yet he didn't use any of his resources to repair the damage.

At least one of the writers should have sat down and detailed what exactly happened to the fleet during that year from a logistics point of view.

Saw this on Wikipedia and after some thought I guess it's correct. Just no official mention.

In the episode Exodus Vipers are shown launching from Galactica's Starboard landing bay. This bay had been converted to a museum but now appears operational.