Sound 'pops' (I hope this isn't the TiVo) [Text View]

dvdfever

12-07-2006, 08:07 PM

I'm clutching at straws a bit here as I don't know if it's the Sky digibox (a silver Panasonic bought in Feb 2000) or the TiVo (in which I put a new 120Gb hard drive about 7 weeks ago) but in the past few weeks, I occasionally get sound pops when watching programmes on, or recorded from, my Sky digibox. It certainly didn't happen before I changed the hard drive, but then I had to take that one out as I was having problems with it which pinpointed to a failing hard drive.

The channel and quality setting on the TiVo is irrelevant as it happens on any, but it seems to happen less or not at all on primetime BBC/C4 shows so I'm wondering if it's a bitrate issue that's affecting it, which would take the blame away from the TiVo.

Could this also be a weather problem? Up in Manchester, it's been particularly bobbins for quite sometime, blowing a gale and chucking it down like there's no tomorrow (which makes those in London crying over an alleged tornado a big bunch of babies). Both the box and dish are over 6.5 years old so is it time to replace one or t'other? TIA.

OrangeDrink

12-07-2006, 08:42 PM

It might not be the reason at all but are you by any chance using a digital audio connection from Sky? There's a similar sounding problem down here in New Zealand with Sky's audio via the digital ports that you don't get from the analog audio out. I switched to analog audio and it's fine. It resurfaced while watching the Ashes test last week with a vengeance but the ad breaks in between were fine leading me to the assumption that the feed Sky NZ were getting from Australia was to blame...

Also if it's anything like here where TVNZ (our sort of BBC) encode their own signals before sending them to Sky. On the whole they do a much better job of encoding than Sky seem to. Perhaps BBC and Channel 4 do something like that in the UK too.

dvdfever

12-10-2006, 05:13 PM

I've got it hooked up by via a SCART. I wonder if it's a reduction in the bitrate which causes it such that any error correction isn't kicking in as it should, since some primetime shows have not been affected, such as tonight's BBC2 Princess Diana programme, BBC3's comedy Pulling and C4's 8 Out of 10 Cats.

Pete77

12-10-2006, 05:45 PM

I'm clutching at straws a bit here as I don't know if it's the Sky digibox (a silver Panasonic bought in Feb 2000) or the TiVo (in which I put a new 120Gb hard drive about 7 weeks ago) but in the past few weeks, I occasionally get sound pops when watching programmes on, or recorded from, my Sky digibox. It certainly didn't happen before I changed the hard drive, but then I had to take that one out as I was having problems with it which pinpointed to a failing hard drive.

Try turning down the audio output on the Sky box to only halfway in the Sound Settings part of the Services menu on the Sky box and save.

Basically as the Sky Digiboxes get older their sound output seems to become a bit suspect at higher volumes and causes distortion that they Tivo box can't handle. Just reduce the audio output from the Sky box and the problem goes away and reduction in volume is compensated for by increasing the volume on your telly.

The popping started up suddenly on my Panasonic TU-DSB20 but when I reduced the audio output to one below half way on the scale on the Sky box the problem completely disappeared.

dvdfever

12-10-2006, 05:53 PM

Try turning down the audio output on the Sky box to only halfway in the Sound Settings part of the Services menu on the Sky box and save.

Basically as the Sky Digiboxes get older their sound output seems to become a bit suspect at higher volumes and causes distortion that they Tivo box can't handle. Just reduce the audio output from the Sky box and the problem goes away and reduction in volume is compensated for by increasing the volume on your telly.

The popping started up suddenly on my Panasonic TU-DSB20 but when I reduced the audio output to one below half way on the scale on the Sky box the problem completely disappeared.

Thanks for the tip. I'll try it in a moment as I'm just recording "The Complete Fluff, Not 'Arf" from Radio 2 via Sky, but I'm hoping great minds think alike as it only struck me a moment ago that, since I've heard the pops via the AUX option on the TiVo but only very small, and as they're often quite loud via the TiVo output I wondered if the TiVo was making them sound amplified once it had processed the sound (since any recording won't be as loud as the original broadcast).

I'll report back tomorrow after I've recorded a few things to see what the effect is, but I don't want to drop it down to halfway just yet as the Freeview box (at top volume) is noticeably quiet and that does annoy me a bit. Another option would be a new Sky box (do Panasonic still make those in the UK? Or can anyone recommend better models? I'll understand if this is better asked in a Sky forum/newsgroup)

Pete77

12-10-2006, 07:11 PM

I'll report back tomorrow after I've recorded a few things to see what the effect is, but I don't want to drop it down to halfway just yet as the Freeview box (at top volume) is noticeably quiet and that does annoy me a bit. Another option would be a new Sky box (do Panasonic still make those in the UK? Or can anyone recommend better models? I'll understand if this is better asked in a Sky forum/newsgroup)

I was on Freeview only for over 2 years and only added the Sky in April last year. To be honest I didn't notice the popping problem at first but I then found it was a big problem on certain Sky channels that have much higher sound output volumes than the average Sky channel. So Eurosport 1 had lots of popping when I recorded the Paris-Dakar rally over 2 weeks till I turned the Sky box audio down. Just below half way audio on the Sky box still seems to result in volume on the Tivo that sounds normal levels to me. Freeview volume level is obviously completely independent of this.

I don't know if it is in fact a problem as Sky boxes get older or just a problem with certain Sky channels that transmit excessively loud sound levels. I only thought it might be the age of the box because I got my Panasonic TUDSB-20 second hand on Ebay and the box is around 7 years old. However there are some threads that report this popping sound problem on Sky boxes of a few different types and ages so I think it may in fact be Sky's fault in not standardising sound volumes from certain channels that are too loud/distorted.

I think Pace2600C1 and PaceDS430N are highest rated for fast channel changes and signal robustness with obstructed line of site to satellite etc. Both are secondhand now though but not that old and regularly up for sale on Ebay. Latest Thomson/Amstrad and other manufacturer boxes (seems to be one identical cosmetic box shell now with numerous different manufacturer badges on it) have I believe gone for cheapness of construction over quality.

dvdfever

12-10-2006, 07:47 PM

I don't know if it is in fact a problem as Sky boxes get older or just a problem with certain Sky channels that transmit excessively loud sound levels. I only thought it might be the age of the box because I got my Panasonic TUDSB-20 second hand on Ebay and the box is around 7 years old. However there are some threads that report this popping sound problem on Sky boxes of a few different types and ages so I think it may in fact be Sky's fault in not standardising sound volumes from certain channels that are too loud/distorted.

I think Pace2600C1 and PaceDS430N are highest rated for fast channel changes and signal robustness with obstructed line of site to satellite etc. Both are secondhand now though but not that old and regularly up for sale on Ebay. Latest Thomson/Amstrad and other manufacturer boxes (seems to be one identical cosmetic box shell now with numerous different manufacturer badges on it) have I believe gone for cheapness of construction over quality.

Do you know how old the PaceDS430N model is? It looks worth a punt, although the 440 version, released in October I see, does look very nice indeed :)

I continued to listen to the next radio programme that was on, dropping the volume by one segment each time (I didn't realise there was as few as six segments in the volume level) going back to the output via TiVo each time and I got down to zero and it was still happening :(

I guess a new Sky box is the only way to go, but then at 6.5 years its had a good innings :)

Pete77

12-10-2006, 08:25 PM

Do you know how old the PaceDS430N model is? It looks worth a punt, although the 440 version, released in October I see, does look very nice indeed :)

I guess a new Sky box is the only way to go, but then at 6.5 years its had a good innings :)

This doesn't look very encouraging regarding the Pace 440:-

www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=490587

It seems Sky have now insisted on all box manufacturer's using the same external shell design for their latest boxes although the quality of the internal components from each manifacturer continues to vary significantly.

I have been looking at getting a Sky box for our family apartment out in Spain where Sky signals are unencrypted but weak on Astra 2D which is mainly aimed at the UK only. Pace2600C1 consistently comes out as most preferred box followed by the Pace DS430N.

PaceDS430N is the immediate predecessor to current 440 model so being sold until only a few months ago. Very latest basic Sky Digiboxes like Pace 440 are built down to a price I reckon given that basic Digibox customers bring Sky the least money and they would really much prefer customers get a Sky+ or Sky HD box.

You could get a Sky+ box of course but they only take extra power running the hard drive facility and you can't record on them unless you pay Sky £30 plus in subscriptions.

Pete77

12-10-2006, 08:39 PM

See ultra positive reviews for proven top notch DS430N vs badly thought of DS440 here:-

www.digitalspy.co.uk/satellite/reviews/

I reckon Sky must have cut what they are prepared to pay the manufacturers lately for a basic subsidised Sky Digibox and quality has suffered accordingly..............

dvdfever

12-11-2006, 03:17 PM

Thanks for the link. While I'm umm and aah about what to buy next, looking at the link below, after a quick google, I found that it seems to be the recent 3.5.3 update on the Panasonic TU-DSB30, the model I have (I forgot the model number until I looked at it from the picture), appears to be what's knackered it and given the sound the 'pop' problem.

http://reviews.ebay.co.uk/Sky-digital-digibox-receivers-What-is-best_W0QQugidZ10000000000116416?ssPageName=BUYGD:CAT:-1:STORES:1
or http://*******.com/y3n86f

It says about the digibox: "Probably Panasonic most popular box, has been a very good box, but since Sky software update it has been a little troublesome, it can loose channels and the EPG menu can disappear"

What made me think it would be better at the previous software version was the second of these two comments listed under "Panasonic TU-DSB31, TU-DSB34 and TU-DSB40".

The one with the picture says: "As above, but these have been a nightmare since Sky's software change, I have only managed to update one box out of 20 tested, ask if it has been updated to 3.5.3 before buying if not don't buy!!!"

While further down it says something contradicting this: "The nicest looking box that Panasonic have produced, But since the new software they have been a nightmare, only buy if you know they are running on 3.4.4b software, if not don’t buy."

So have they got confused with the first comment as that makes it sound like 3.5.3 is best, whereas the second says it should be 3.4.4b.

Perhaps an email to Panasonic might be in order to resolve this problem with another software update if it's 3.5.3 which is the problem?

Pete77

12-11-2006, 03:37 PM

Perhaps an email to Panasonic might be in order to resolve this problem with another software update if it's 3.5.3 which is the problem?

Running 3.5.3 on Panasonic TU-DSB20 here. No issues or problems of any kind with sound etc.

Only goes to show the newer boxes are not always best................

dvdfever

12-11-2006, 04:26 PM

Running 3.5.3 on Panasonic TU-DSB20 here. No issues or problems of any kind with sound etc.

Only goes to show the newer boxes are not always best................

I don't suppose it's possible to go back on a software upgrade? I'm just trying a forced software download at the mo (unplug, hold down backup on the machine, plug back in and let go of backup when the 'updating system software' message appears) but I tried it a couple of weeks back and it didn't make any difference :(

Pete77

12-11-2006, 04:45 PM

I don't suppose it's possible to go back on a software upgrade? I'm just trying a forced software download at the mo (unplug, hold down backup on the machine, plug back in and let go of backup when the 'updating system software' message appears) but I tried it a couple of weeks back and it didn't make any difference :(

This is Sky we're talking about! ;)

You the mere customer are simply expected to accept the software version you're given and preferably you won't even know that Sky have changed it behind your back in their view of the world. :D

Perhaps they did it to try to force a load of customers into upgrading to a nice new Sky+ box:(

dvdfever

12-11-2006, 05:11 PM

This is Sky we're talking about! ;)

You the mere customer are simply expected to accept the software version you're given and preferably you won't even know that Sky have changed it behind your back in their view of the world. :D

Perhaps they did it to try to force a load of customers into upgrading to a nice new Sky+ box:(

Nothing would separate my from my TiVo! :)

On the issue of Sky forcing customers to do things, they clearly made their analogue signal worse, thus trying to force the change from analogue to digital.

dvdfever

12-17-2006, 01:01 PM

Just as a test last night I recorded something from a source other than Sky - TOTP2 from BBC2 analogue at 8.35pm and I'm still getting a few pops, so that made me think it was actually coming from my TiVo (I replaced the hard drive in late October with a 120Gb one from Pacelink) but surely it might only be that if it was happening equally and across all programmes recorded whereas there are some on which I don't hear it (eg. BBC3's Pulling, and I only heard the pop once or twice on BBC3's Bodies finale), so is there a reduction of quality going on with all broadcasters which is leading to error correction going wrong and giving out these 'pops' which then get amplified through the TiVo?

Plus, if the problem was down to Pacelink's hard drives I figured I would've heard about it on here but there are no threads about that at all.

This is incredibly confusing and really p'ing me off. I'll be getting another Sky digibox soon anyway, but while it'll be nice to have a new box I'm wondering whether it was worth it if it doesn't appear to be the source of the pops. :(

dvdfever

12-17-2006, 03:46 PM

Pete77

12-17-2006, 07:05 PM

A quick additional, my analogue aerial is looped via my Sky box so if that is causing a problem to analogue recordings via the TiVo then that would explain the Sky box is at fault, but I'm really confused with this so I'd appreciate any help anyone can give as it's driving me up the wall. Thanks.

Try some aerial recordings with the aerial plugged directly to the RF in on the Tivo and not looped through via the Sky box. Also if you have a nearby friend or relation with a Sky box ask if you can borrow it for a day to see if you still get the problem with their box.

Failing all those buy yourself a Pace DS430N off Ebay which is such a good Sky box that it will be a worthwhile improvement even if the popping is being caused by something else.

dvdfever

12-18-2006, 03:09 PM

Try some aerial recordings with the aerial plugged directly to the RF in on the Tivo and not looped through via the Sky box. Also if you have a nearby friend or relation with a Sky box ask if you can borrow it for a day to see if you still get the problem with their box.

Failing all those buy yourself a Pace DS430N off Ebay which is such a good Sky box that it will be a worthwhile improvement even if the popping is being caused by something else.

Frustration abounds as I took the Sky box out of the equation for recording, joined the two aerial ends together and recorded Neighbours (I'm in the North West if this makes any difference) from BBC1 but the pops were still there.

That would be another time that would make me think it was the TiVo's hard drive, but then I have also heard it when watching Sky via the AUX button so I'm watching the direct stream from the Sky box so that rules out the hard drive as a fault.

In case it might be a problem with the TV (which is a few years old) and that these pops aren't being recorded, since I listen to most TV stuff via my Sony amplifier which is connected to the TV via standard audio leads, I recorded a short segment with a pop and played it through my Xbox 360. The pop was still there and was amplified further (since it had gone from the source to the TiVo and onto a DVD, I guess it gets worse the more the recordings go on).

To rule out the amp being the problem, I don't hear these pops when I play games from the Xbox 360 (or any other console) through the amp.

Presuming it's still the Sky box that's at fault (and I'm just awaiting a DS430N that I've bought online so I'll get that before I have the chance to try out a relative's Sky box), as you say at least I will end up with a better Sky box but I hope to hell this is the answer as it's really doing my head in :(

Pete77

12-18-2006, 03:45 PM

That would be another time that would make me think it was the TiVo's hard drive, but then I have also heard it when watching Sky via the AUX button so I'm watching the direct stream from the Sky box so that rules out the hard drive as a fault.

In case it might be a problem with the TV (which is a few years old) and that these pops aren't being recorded, since I listen to most TV stuff via my Sony amplifier which is connected to the TV via standard audio leads, I recorded a short segment with a pop and played it through my Xbox 360. The pop was still there and was amplified further (since it had gone from the source to the TiVo and onto a DVD, I guess it gets worse the more the recordings go on).

Bit of a mystery really. Since you get the problem with both direct aerial and direct Sky it seems to me like its the box creating the pops.

Only way to know for sure would be to get another Tivo and put your hard drives in that. I suppose if you bought one for £60 on Ebay you could always sell it for around that and only lose the inbound and outbound postage (or just keep it in case your current Tivo ever goes belly up). If your Tivo's motherboard itself is the problem then you should be able to persuade Tivo customers services to transfer the lifetime sub from your current box to the other box. Of course I'm assuming you have a Lifetime Sub?

frogster

12-18-2006, 04:02 PM

Try a PC uninterruptable power supply (UPS) or, if you can't afford one, a decent mains surge surpressor. Plug all your devices into it (except the TV which probably draws too much current).

I had many sound problems with my new dolby amp until I fitted one of these. All the problems went away instantly, never to return.

As for your other comments:

It can't possibly be the Sky box if you also hear the problem from other sources.

It can't be the TV if you also hear the problem via the amp, unless the amp has a feed from the TV.

It can't be the amp if you also hear the problem via the TV.

It can't be the Tivo if you still hear the problem with the Tivo disconnected.

It would be very simple to just try the above tests, one after the other, and this will tell you exactly where the problem is.

Why is your TV antenna looped through the Sky box? This is not necessary in normal installations.

Your cabling and connections don't sound right at all.

dvdfever

12-18-2006, 04:41 PM

Bit of a mystery really. Since you get the problem with both direct aerial and direct Sky it seems to me like its the box creating the pops.

The Sky box was still hooked up via the SCART to the TiVo in case there's something up with the Sky that's passing the problem through? (how many straws am I clutching at here?)

Only way to know for sure would be to get another Tivo and put your hard drives in that. I suppose if you bought one for £60 on Ebay you could always sell it for around that and only lose the inbound and outbound postage (or just keep it in case your current Tivo ever goes belly up). If your Tivo's motherboard itself is the problem then you should be able to persuade Tivo customers services to transfer the lifetime sub from your current box to the other box. Of course I'm assuming you have a Lifetime Sub?

I only just replaced the hard drive with a new, 120Gb one, and it was fine before that, with the problem occuring a couple of weeks after that, but since I can hear the pops when watching Sky via the AUX - so it's not in the live TV buffer - that would surely indicate that it's not the hard drive.

I've never seen a TiVo on Ebay for about £60 as they always tend to go for big money. A new motherboard is £200 from Pacelink. As for the sub, it's a review unit so it shows "11: Evaluation" so if I bought a new TiVo I'd have to buy a lifetime sub. :(

Pete77

12-18-2006, 04:50 PM

I've never seen a TiVo on Ebay for about £60 as they always tend to go for big money. (

Not so.

I have bid a low amount for a few unsubbed unmodified Tivo boxes of late and when it comes through with the final email saying you have not won the price has been £60 to £70. Lifetime subbed machines go for a lot more and machines with Cachecards and hard drive upgrades more still, although a lot less than the cost of the additional hardware and the hassle of installation.

Prices of basic unsubbed machines on Ebay have fallen a lot lately due to the glut of Tivo machines being sold as a result of hard drive upgrades.

dvdfever

12-18-2006, 05:13 PM

Not so.

I have bid a low amount for a few unsubbed unmodified Tivo boxes of late and when it comes through with the final email saying you have not won the price has been £60 to £70. Lifetime subbed machines go for a lot more and machines with Cachecards and hard drive upgrades more still, although a lot less than the cost of the additional hardware and the hassle of installation.

Prices of basic unsubbed machines on Ebay have fallen a lot lately due to the glut of Tivo machines being sold as a result of hard drive upgrades.

I only really want to make buying a new TiVo the last resort option, as that'd be another £199 for the lifetime sub.

I wonder if this might be the problem I'm having although the problem is that we're not going to be getting any software fixes any time soon :(

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/alt.video.ptv.tivo/browse_frm/thread/32fde5b810ca7d7/786e55a3c67c3dbf?lnk=st&q=tivo+sound+pops&rnum=6&hl=en#786e55a3c67c3dbf

However, this one suggests it could be the central heating, since that must've come on full time around early November when the problem started. If it does solve the problem, I think I'd rather have crackle-free telly and freeze to death! :)

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/ntl.discussion.cable-tv.digital/browse_frm/thread/a7b63e049454480c/6f0dbee6027ea073?lnk=st&q=tivo+sound+pops&rnum=9&hl=en#6f0dbee6027ea073

mikerr

12-18-2006, 07:01 PM

put this into the ebay search box... 270022141693

....then cry that you missed it ;)

blindlemon

12-18-2006, 07:07 PM

Aaaargh :eek:

Pete77

12-18-2006, 07:32 PM

£60 with a Lifetime Sub. Hard to believe. And only one bid.

Note the date though of 24th August. Definitely not the time to be selling a Tivo for maximum price while everyone else is sunning themselves in the Med or down on the beach at Bournemouth.

dvdfever

12-18-2006, 08:15 PM

frogster

12-19-2006, 02:44 AM

However, this one suggests it could be the central heating, since that must've come on full time around early November when the problem started. If it does solve the problem, I think I'd rather have crackle-free telly and freeze to death! :)

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/ntl.discussion.cable-tv.digital/browse_frm/thread/a7b63e049454480c/6f0dbee6027ea073?lnk=st&q=tivo+sound+pops&rnum=9&hl=en#6f0dbee6027ea073The UPS I suggested yesterday will solve this problem, and any other mains-borne interference issues. That's why I suggested it.

Why not try one?

dvdfever

12-19-2006, 04:26 AM

The UPS I suggested yesterday will solve this problem, and any other mains-borne interference issues. That's why I suggested it.

Why not try one?

One I saw on Maplin only had 4 plug sockets coming out of it which isn't going to cover everything that I use, but also I want to work out what the cause of the problem is.

A few days before installing the new hard drive, I started using a new Dell 19" TFT monitor, in case that has any effect on the mains, but I only noticed the problem after the new hard drive was put in (and I blew out - gently - a lot of dust from inside the TiVo). I also use a couple of surge-protected extension leads so I'd have thought those would stop problems like I'm seeing, and even if it wasn't, when I've had mains-borne interference before its made the Freeview play up, such as when I've used a light switch, and I'm getting no such problems with that on its own, just on things that revolve around the TiVo.

(edit) Although, I can hear the pops when watching via AUX, could this still have anything whatsoever to do with the new hard drive? Ta.

Pete77

12-19-2006, 04:44 AM

and I blew out - gently - a lot of dust from inside the TiVo

You haven't mentioned this before.

I wonder if this blowing out of dust could some how have affected the status of an already failing Tivo component?

frogster

12-19-2006, 01:38 PM

One I saw on Maplin only had 4 plug sockets coming out of it which isn't going to cover everything that I use, My UPS has only one output socket, into which I daisy-chain two strip adaptors giving me 9 sockets. The only thing you need to worry about is the total current drain (so don't connect your TV to it).

Although, I can hear the pops when watching via AUX, could this still have anything whatsoever to do with the new hard drive? Ta.I suppose that a new drive may be drawing more current and that might be putting a strain on the Tivo power supply.
Even so, in theory the AUX setting bypasses everything in the Tivo.

geekspeak

12-19-2006, 02:11 PM

dvdfever

12-19-2006, 02:59 PM

You haven't mentioned this before.

I wonder if this blowing out of dust could some how have affected the status of an already failing Tivo component?

I was trying to think of things that I did around the time that might've had a bearing. I'd always be as careful as possible when doing something like that, but then again I do have to bear in mind that the unit is five years old. Were it a PC or a console I'd be looking to replace it with the next model as opposed to using it for another five years, but oh, how I'm sure we all wish TiVo would get together with a UK PVR manufacturer and put the TiVo's brain into it.

That said, when I opened it up to change the hard drive over, despite the volume of space inside it, the unit was about as empty as my brain on a Saturday morning :)

dvdfever

12-19-2006, 03:01 PM

My UPS has only one output socket, into which I daisy-chain two strip adaptors giving me 9 sockets. The only thing you need to worry about is the total current drain (so don't connect your TV to it).

I suppose that a new drive may be drawing more current and that might be putting a strain on the Tivo power supply.
Even so, in theory the AUX setting bypasses everything in the Tivo.

In case I go down the UPS route, please can you tell me which model you use and which site I can order it from. Ta.

dvdfever

12-19-2006, 03:10 PM

Random popping sounds have been reported here in the past. In fact I uploaded a sample sound file containing a pop and a lot of people seemed to recognise it. Unfortunately, then as now, identifying a solution proved illusive.

It seems alot of people don't seem to notice it. In fact I can't say I have noticed it for a long time but I believe it still does happen.

I think some reported that where they could reduce the volume of the source it helps to a degree but is not 100%.

I use a UPS but it did not solve this issue.

Best advise I can give, unfortunately, is try to ignore it and you may find it becomes less intrusive. Otherwise you will start hearing popping everywhere you go including Airport tannoy systems. (or is that just me then ?? <g>)

Do you still have the sample sound file? I'd like to hear it. I could upload one myself too. There were three pops almost in a row on Breakfast while they talked to Alan Yentob today, and at one point the sound distorted like I hadn't heard before. Not nice :(

It has become noticeable since something like that absolutely gets on my nerves, particularly since along the way it'll affect stuff I want to record to keep. It has made me think it's happened more often than it does, since I'm listening out for it, and I've played back the last few seconds of something and it's not actually there or it was some sound effect. Grrr :)

I guess it's like cue dots on a cinema film print at the end of the reel. Once you notice them, you can't ignore them.

mikerr

12-19-2006, 03:17 PM

dvdfever

12-19-2006, 03:49 PM

I have some of these UPS dotted around the house,
almost as cheap as a surge protected 6 way !

Belkin 350VA UPS for £19.99
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/product.php?sku=921683

Not very powerful, but not very big or expensive either !

I have the TiVo (and several other things) plugged into a 10-way surge-protected extension thingy, so isn't that supposed to stop spikes like this anyway?

Pete77

12-19-2006, 04:35 PM

I have the TiVo (and several other things) plugged into a 10-way surge-protected extension thingy, so isn't that supposed to stop spikes like this anyway?

Yes I believe your surge protector should also block these spikes. The Belkin device just gives some very basic and short lived UPS protection that won't even protect you against power brownouts where the power voltage level dips but does not die.

I wonder if a neighbour's 811G wireless transmitter couldn't somehow be causing this interference with and sound pops on the Tivo box?

frogster

12-19-2006, 04:40 PM

I have the TiVo (and several other things) plugged into a 10-way surge-protected extension thingy, so isn't that supposed to stop spikes like this anyway?It's supposed to but a UPS is better.

The UPS I'm using on my AV stuff cost £20 from SVP.co.uk

I can't remember the model and the label must be at the back and not visible without removing everything in front.

The one I use for my PC stuff came from a local supermarket and cost £40.

kitschcamp

12-20-2006, 12:27 AM

I still use a very good APC UPS and find it utterly reliable. In fact the company I work for likes them so much, they've just bought the whole company :)

Pete77

12-20-2006, 04:52 AM

I still use a very good APC UPS and find it utterly reliable. In fact the company I work for likes them so much, they've just bought the whole company :)

Just got the APC BE 325 UK at Staples the other day which they were selling off for £9.97 (last one) and this is supposed to support 185W or something and last up to 25 minutes or so depending on load. Only concern is to what extent the battery has sulphated while its been kicking around at Staples and Office World before that as it then was. Just been charging the thing up for 24 hours and am about to see how long it can run the 40w load of the Tivo and the unknown but probably 25W load of my Panasonic TU-DSB 20 box for.

I will be testing APC's support policies to see if they will exchange it under warranty for another one if the battery does nor have a reasonable standby time of at least 10 to 15 minutes.

This unit packaging says it can handle brownouts as well as blackouts and I think new they sell for 50 quid or so.

dvdfever

12-20-2006, 05:42 PM

Just got the APC BE 325 UK at Staples the other day which they were selling off for £9.97 (last one) and this is supposed to support 185W or something and last up to 25 minutes or so depending on load. Only concern is to what extent the battery has sulphated while its been kicking around at Staples and Office World before that as it then was. Just been charging the thing up for 24 hours and am about to see how long it can run the 40w load of the Tivo and the unknown but probably 25W load of my Panasonic TU-DSB 20 box for.

I will be testing APC's support policies to see if they will exchange it under warranty for another one if the battery does nor have a reasonable standby time of at least 10 to 15 minutes.

This unit packaging says it can handle brownouts as well as blackouts and I think new they sell for 50 quid or so.

I see Amazon have got one for about £45 but if a surge protector doobrie is meant to do the job then if I bought a UPS and it made no difference I'd be really p'd off.

I've uploaded two short (12-14 seconds) mp3 files which gives an example of a couple of problems that have happened recently.

The first is a distortion effect that happened as Alan Yentob spoke (while talking about yesterday's Imagine programme). It was the first time I'd heard the box do this and when I later listened to 20 mins of Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares with just the digibox going straight to the TV - thus bypassing the TiVo - I heard the distortion again (and I'm damn sure I heard a couple of faint pops during that time although it's impossible to play them back when its live, but I'm sure it wasn't paranoia making me hear them! :) )

http://dvdfever.co.uk/yentob1.mp3

The second is three pop sounds, all of which happened within quick succession although this was a bit of a rarity as they tend to be sporadic. These happen in the second half of the mp3 file, so the odd sound you hear early on is the blonde presenter with the bird's nest hairdo rearranging her posterior and sitting on her mic pack :)

http://dvdfever.co.uk/yentob2.mp3

Thanks in advance for any input on this.

Pete77

12-20-2006, 07:11 PM

These are vaguely annoying quality glitches but not exactly really severe. When I had the Sky box popping noise before I turned down its audio output when recording channels like British Eurosport it made the whole program completely unwatchable because the popping and clicking was so bad.

I think blindlemon is probably the only one with enough comparative box experience to be able to help much on this issue, although may be another out and out quality purist like sanderton (who would be sure to find such minor glitches totally intolerable) could also also help shed some light on this.

dvdfever

12-20-2006, 07:39 PM

These are vaguely annoying quality glitches but not exactly really severe. When I had the Sky box popping noice before I turned down its audio output when recording channels like British Eurosport it made the whole program completely unwatchable because the popping and clicking was so bad.

I think blindlemon is propably the only one with enough comparative box experience to be able to help much on this issue, although may be another out and out quality purist like sanderton (who would be sure to find such minor glitches totally intolerable) could also also help shed some light on this.

When it's happening several times within the space of one programme, it's like someone in the cinema flicking popcorn at you from behind once every 30 seconds throughout the course of a movie. You might let it go once, but pretty soon you're gonna be ready to scream.

Analogy over :)

frogster

12-21-2006, 06:15 AM

Pete77

12-21-2006, 08:34 AM

The first clip sounds suspiciously like overload.
Turn the volume level of the digibox right down via the service menu.

Yes I agree, turn the volume output down on the Sky box Service menu further. Keep reducing it one step more until you no longer get these annoying sounds in recordings. Even at Level 1 the Tivo box should still record enough sound to be acceptable on the Tv with an appropriate volume setting.

Also if you haven't already done so replace the power supply with a new one as a worn capacitor in that might be giving you the hisses and clicks.

dvdfever

12-21-2006, 02:31 PM

The first clip sounds suspiciously like overload.
Turn the volume level of the digibox right down via the service menu.

The other clip sounds like mains-borne interference or a failing capacitor. Fit a decent surge surpressor to power all your devices (except the screen). If that doesn't work then look again but don't bother with anything else until you have tried that.

Replying to both Pete77 and Frogster, I've found the 10-way surge suppressor unit I bought from Maplin which is at:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=DS32K&DOY=21m12

Would this be classed as something that should stop this?

Regarding the digibox sound level, I've turned it down to 2/3 to see if that helps with the distortion but even turning it down to zero didn't fix the clicking problem before. Hopefully the Pace DN430 I've bought online will arrive by the weekend and I can try that out to see if it helps.

For the TiVo PSU, I see TiVoland have a replacement unit for £11 inc. P&P so at that price I'm tempted to put an order in for it even if that's not the problem at the moment, since I can always keep it to one side when the day comes that it is. What do you reckon?

Thanks again for the help on this.

Pete77

12-21-2006, 03:27 PM

For the TiVo PSU, I see TiVoland have a replacement unit for £11 inc. P&P so at that price I'm tempted to put an order in for it even if that's not the problem at the moment, since I can always keep it to one side when the day comes that it is. What do you reckon?

People were practically giving power supplies away with a couple of silver Tivo remotes for £16 a few months ago when they were clearing out Tivo spares stocks and sadly I think loads of people now have power supplies horded in cupboards just in case they may need it one day. I think from here on in the price can only go up because originally they cost a lot more and the price of a Tivo S2 power supply is currently a lot more.

Tivoland have actually put their price up from the £4 or so they were charging a month or so ago and I expect the price may go up again.

I would wait till your Pace Sky box arrives though and see how you go with that. If you still have the noise problem I would install a new Tivo power supply as the next step. I suppose it is possible your mains supply has some kind of interference on it though. I have no trouble like that here with my utilities but my sister has had persistent problems with a dirty gas supply that keeps clogging the jets on her Glowworm Fuelsave F fan boiler. Yet I have precisely the same boiler that is also 15 years old like hers and it has never once had its jets clog up. Also I have never had any interference on Tivo sound apart from the popping episode on certain Sky channels with higher volume levels than most like British Eurosport. As I indicated this was cured by turning down the volume output level from the Sky box.

geekspeak

12-21-2006, 04:03 PM

Here is the file I uploaded a long time ago. The pop is around the word "lawyer". I had to zip it to attach.

Pete77

12-21-2006, 04:09 PM

Here is the file I uploaded a long time ago. The pop is around the work "lawyer". I had to zip it to attach.

Again very minor, even more so than dvd fever's examples. Even with the volume turned right up I could hardly hear it.

How frequently does the problem recur. You have to bear in mind that this box involves analogue to digital encoding and then digital to analogue back again by the time you finally hear it and as long as you have that you introduce a lot of scope for problems compared to encoding the original digital bitstream and playing back the digital bitstream.

geekspeak

12-21-2006, 04:28 PM

Again very minor

It is minor. If it still happens for me, I don't even notice it anymore. If it doesn't happen for me, sorry but I do not know what fixed it. I do think though, that the more you think about it, the more you hear it!

P.S. I think my pop recording may have been via. a microphone so you have to ignore the background hiss which may subdue the effect slightly.

dvdfever

12-21-2006, 04:32 PM

Here is the file I uploaded a long time ago. The pop is around the word "lawyer". I had to zip it to attach.

Thanks for that. I can hear a click earlier around the word "star" (it sounds like - difficult to work out without the full sentence so I know the context) as well. These may only be small things, and this sound file is very reflective of what I get, but as I mentioned it's like those cue dots at the end of a film's reel in the cinema - once you notice it... you'll never miss it.

Pete77 - I get the sound clicks/pops around half a dozen times within the average 30 minute programme.

I'm tempted to order a TiVo power supply anyway since it could go the way of a PC I had a problem with a few years ago. It was a noisy fan on the CPU heatsink and so I bought a new fan, left it under the PC on the desk and meant to get round to replacing it but forgot all about it. The problem just stopped happening so I figured the threat of replacing the fan made the old one behave as I never had a peep out of it again :)

Pete77

12-21-2006, 04:42 PM

The problem just stopped happening so I figured the threat of replacing the fan made the old one behave as I never had a peep out of it again :)

Have you also noticed how any two supposedly perfectly inanimate sets of thin wires (eg headphone wires) placed in close proximity to each other for any length of time always end up managing to perfectly intertwine themselves in a way that is rationally totally inexplicable. ;) :D

dvdfever

12-21-2006, 05:08 PM

Indeed :)

I've just realised something else that's been happening with the Sky box. It only used to be rarely and then occasionally that it would stop passing through the 888 subtitles, but more and more frequently it's doing this and needs unplugging to make it work properly again. Here's hoping this is the source of all my problems! :)

Pete77

12-21-2006, 05:15 PM

Is your box a TUCT 30 or 31? One of those two is reknowned for having numerous different issues as it gets older although I forget which one. A search on Google ought to track it.

dvdfever

12-21-2006, 05:45 PM

Is your box a TUCT 30 or 31? One of those two is reknowned for having numerous different issues as it gets older although I forget which one. A search on Google ough to track it.

30, I think, last time I checked a picture of it.

It's done the subtitles problem for a number of years now, but not a regularly until recently.

Pete77

12-21-2006, 05:59 PM

I don't suppose this sounds like your problem?

www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-31438.html

dvdfever

12-21-2006, 06:43 PM

I don't suppose this sounds like your problem?

www.avforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-31438.html

Not like that, really, but thanks for the link. It's definitely the same as the pops that geekspeak posted earlier. Even the high-pitched music of What The Papers Say's theme has triggered a pop.

If it does turn out to be solved once the digibox is replaced, I'll be filming myself jumping up and down on the Panasonic box and uploading it to Youtube in time for Xmas (that's not a bad idea now I think about it :) )

dvdfever

12-23-2006, 07:22 AM

Well, the new (used :) ) Pace Sky box came today and I've hooked it up and while subtitles seem better from the box when parsed through the TiVo, the sound pop problem is still there. :(

Going down the next route of replacing the power supply in the TiVo, is this an easy thing to take and out replace?

Beyond that, getting a new TiVo will mean buying a lifetime sub as I mentioned mine's on 'Evaluation' as it was a review unit.

Pete77

12-23-2006, 07:40 AM

Going down the next route of replacing the power supply in the TiVo, is this an easy thing to take and out replace?

Beyond that, getting a new TiVo will mean buying a lifetime sub as I mentioned mine's on 'Evaluation' as it was a review unit.

See www.tivoheaven.com for a guide on how to replace the Tivo power supply (loads of people here have done it and it doesn't sound too tricky), although you might also want to check out www.tivoland.com if you are thinking of actually buying one. There is also a thread on the UK part of Tivocommunity somewhere about the replacement process. It was a quite a good one if you can track it - I think blindlemon knows where to find it.

As to buying a second subbed Tivo well that's clearly a £170+ option or a little more if you try to pick up one with a network card and a larger hard drive as you might want to. If you bought a second Tivo that's subbed and networked both of them you could then use Sanderton's recording conflict resolution module to handle any recording clashes by doing them on the second box. So long of course as you could take the occasional click on your current box which you would obviously retire to this recording clash function.

By the way how is the new Pace DS430N compared to your old Pace box? Does it change channels a lot faster and handle the extra interactive news feeds on Sky News and BBC News 24 a lot faster than the old box? Also how about the Sky online account management stuff which is painfully slow on my Panasonic TU-DSB 20.

ndunlavey

12-23-2006, 07:45 AM

blowing a gale and chucking it down like there's no tomorrow (which makes those in London crying over an alleged tornado a big bunch of babies).
So this bit of wind and rain you had destroyed your house did it?

dvdfever

12-23-2006, 10:41 AM

So this bit of wind and rain you had destroyed your house did it?

One day, the media will report from a city other than London. Perhaps when hell freezes over. They barely touch other areas when similar things happen, but the moment it happens in London, prepare for wall to wall coverage.

dvdfever

12-23-2006, 11:09 AM

See www.tivoheaven.com for a guide on how to replace the Tivo power supply (loads of people here have done it and it doesn't sound too tricky), although you might also want to check out www.tivoland.com if you are thinking of actually buying one. There is also a thread on the UK part of Tivocommunity somewhere about the replacement process. It was a quite a good one if you can track it - I think blindlemon knows where to find it.

As to buying a second subbed Tivo well that's clearly a £170+ option or a little more if you try to pick up one with a network card and a larger hard drive as you might want to. If you bought a second Tivo that's subbed and networked both of them you could then use Sanderton's recording conflict resolution module to handle any recording clashes by doing them on the second box. So long of course as you could take the occasional click on your current box which you would obviously retire to this recording clash function.

By the way how is the new Pace DS430N compared to your old Pace box? Does it change channels a lot faster and handle the extra interactive news feeds on Sky News and BBC News 24 a lot faster than the old box? Also how about the Sky online account management stuff which is painfully slow on my Panasonic TU-DSB 20.

Thanks for the links. I found replacement instructions on TiVoheaven's site although as they're charging £29 for one I'll get it from TiVoland :)

I'm feeling hopeful after reading on Tivoheaven's site that they can start to show signs of ageing after 3-4 years and particularly after installing a new hard drive or cachecard, so perhaps opening it up and disturbing the bits inside after a few years gives it a jolt it could do without, especially since it needs a good hard tug while wearing rubber gloves (oo-er, missus!) to get it open.

If I had to buy a second box, I'd just use it in a different room as a spare just in case the new main one stopped working for a while, although it would be an expensive alternative and rather a pain since I just bought the hard drive two months ago (and checking the oldest recording on there from one week on, as there was something I hadn't got round to finishing, the pops are there so it must've happened when I first installed the hard drive).

The Pace box changes channels at the same speed as the old Panny, but on checking the news pages on BBCi I see it is a lot faster. To be honest, though, when I want to look at news on TV I tend to flick through the pages on Ceefax from 101 onwards.

However, if it solves the problem of 888 subtitles packing up every so often (more often than it used to, lately) then that's a plus, especially since the Panny was almost 7 years old. I don't have any hearing problems but it's something I got used to for when my attention.... erm.. er... wanders... :)

ndunlavey

12-23-2006, 01:51 PM

That's a "no", then?
(nice chip, by the way)

dvdfever

01-06-2007, 04:21 PM

Thanks for the links. I found replacement instructions on TiVoheaven's site although as they're charging £29 for one I'll get it from TiVoland :)

I'm feeling hopeful after reading on Tivoheaven's site that they can start to show signs of ageing after 3-4 years and particularly after installing a new hard drive or cachecard, so perhaps opening it up and disturbing the bits inside after a few years gives it a jolt it could do without, especially since it needs a good hard tug while wearing rubber gloves (oo-er, missus!) to get it open.

Alas, it didn't solve the problem of snap, crackle and pop. I recorded both What the Papers Say and TOTP2 this afternoon, was a bit hopeful when there was just a couple of pops during WTPS, but during TOTP2 it went back to normal during a couple of songs where it was as noisy as it usually was and there was quite a few clicks and pops. I've tried dropping the sound levels a bit on the Pace digibox so it's one below medium to see if that helps at all. However, I think it's back to the drawing board :(

Pete77

01-06-2007, 04:41 PM

I've tried dropping the sound levels a bit on the Pace digibox so it's one below medium to see if that helps at all. However, I think it's back to the drawing board :(

How about trying two below medium then?

Anyhow I won't be holding my breath that installing a new Power Supply will cure my longstanding problem of TivoWeb making the Tivo reboot if I use Search, then Tracker and Highlights or other suitably demanding TivoWeb modules in sequence (if i don't use TivoWeb the machine never reboots). Personally I still think this is down to a memory overflow and not the condition of the power supply. And yes I have already set TIVOSH_POOLSIZE to 3244068 in the tivoweb no extension file.

I think blindlemon is really rather too keen to suggest the Power Supply as the source of many Tivo problems. Although inevitably he has encountered a few power supplies that have failed on the whole the power supplies actually seem pretty reliable and I think the cause of the popping issue is clearly something else.

dvdfever

01-06-2007, 05:18 PM

How about trying two below medium then?

Anyhow I won't be holding my breath that installing a new Power Supply will cure my longstanding problem of TivoWeb making the Tivo reboot if I use Search, then Tracker and Highlights or other suitably demanding TivoWeb modules in sequence (if i don't use TivoWeb the machine never reboots). Personally I still think this is down to a memory overflow and not the condition of the power supply. And yes I have already set TIVOSH_POOLSIZE to 3244068 in the tivoweb no extension file.

I think blindlemon is really rather too keen to suggest the Power Supply as the source of many Tivo problems. Although inevitably he has encountered a few power supplies that have failed on the whole the power supplies actually seem pretty reliable and I think the cause of the popping issue is clearly something else.

Just tried putting it down to zero but I don't think that'll solve it as it didn't with the Panny I used before.

I've thought again about getting a TiVo with all the trimmings. However, it'd p me off royally if I started hearing pops the moment I switched it on. Makes me wonder if it's the motherboard like you suggested early on in this thread, and if it is then they're all old and the only solution is the one thing we're not going to get - a new model of TiVo coming to the UK market.

Pete77

01-06-2007, 05:30 PM

Makes me wonder if it's the motherboard like you suggested early on in this thread, and if it is then they're all old and the only solution is the one thing we're not going to get - a new model of TiVo coming to the UK market.
I don't seem to get these pops on my machine, unless of course my hearing is just much less good than yours and I don't notice them.

Seems unlikely as I am the sort of person who objects to noisy computer fans, noisy hard disks and the footsteps of the neighbour on the floorboards in the flat upstairs.

dvdfever

01-06-2007, 05:52 PM

I don't seem to get these pops on my machine, unless of course my hearing is just much less good than yours and I don't notice them.

Seems unlikely as I am the sort of person who objects to noisy computer fans, noisy hard disks and the footsteps of the neighbour on the floorboards in the flat upstairs.

I thought you got them a while back before turning the volume down on the Sky box?

I'm wondering if something has changed with my hearing too, since I never heard them before I opened the box to change the hard drive, yet when I finally got round to authoring some DVDs last week of the Autopsy and Anatomy for Beginners DVDs that I recorded back in January 2005 and January 2006 (normally I'm not so lax on such things, but these just got put to one side even though most of it I'd copied to the hard drive ready to do the DVD), and I heard a couple of pops on each series making me wonder why I never heard it at the time.

Even more strange is that not all of these pops ended up on the final DVDs I made as I played it back in my Xbox. That made me wonder if that handles the sound slightly differently depending on what it gets given to play and I couldn't believe the problem had clearly gone back so far as both series were recorded on the TiVo first. Very strange indeed.

I was going to post about this earlier in the week but thought I'd wait until I got the PSU and swapped it over.

blindlemon

01-06-2007, 06:04 PM

I think blindlemon is really rather too keen to suggest the Power Supply as the source of many Tivo problems. Although inevitably he has encountered a few power supplies that have failed on the whole the power supplies actually seem pretty reliable and I think the cause of the popping issue is clearly something else.I should just like to point out that a) my only contribution to this thread has been "Aaaargh!" and b) I normally suggest the hard drive as the source of people's problems as that accounts for at least 95% of them. When a new hard drive has failed to fix the problem and it may be related to the PSU I believe it is a perfectly valid next step. However, I very rarely, if ever, suggest swapping the PSU as the first option, and have never AFAIK suggested that a new PSU will definitely be the answer to anybody's problem.

Please don't attribute things to me that I haven't said. If you want to criticise me, find a valid reason in future.

dvdfever

01-06-2007, 06:27 PM

I should just like to point out that a) my only contribution to this thread has been "Aaaargh!" and b) I normally suggest the hard drive as the source of people's problems as that accounts for at least 95% of them.

Could it be possible that the new hard drive I bought in October from Pacelink (a 120Gb Samsung) is the problem? It was after that when I first noticed the problem, but now I'm really confused given the problems I mentioned tonight regarding the autopsy programmes, not all of which translated to the final DVD that I made.

Thanks to the update in the Sale and Supply of Goods Act a couple of years or so ago, if a problem occurs with something within six months of purchase then it's deemed defective from day one and is basically the retailer's problem so I've got a bit of time here to work this one out first.

That said, I haven't seen any threads here or elsewhere via Google that link sound pops to a problematic hard drive which makes me think it's not that.

blindlemon

01-06-2007, 09:36 PM

Pete77

01-07-2007, 04:42 AM

I should just like to point out that a) my only contribution to this thread has been "Aaaargh!" and b) I normally suggest the hard drive as the source of people's problems as that accounts for at least 95% of them. When a new hard drive has failed to fix the problem and it may be related to the PSU I believe it is a perfectly valid next step. However, I very rarely, if ever, suggest swapping the PSU as the first option, and have never AFAIK suggested that a new PSU will definitely be the answer to anybody's problem.

Please don't attribute things to me that I haven't said. If you want to criticise me, find a valid reason in future.

I suppose that all I really meant is that changing the power supply on a Tivo is, in the real world (and even according to the learned ikb), by all accounts actually rather hard work even though someone, somewhere once described it as being a 10 minute job. ;) :D

Also in terms of my comments in the forum its clear that I am very often singing the praises of your own Tivo upgrading services to many forum members, even if I do also speak my mind from time to time if there are some issues on which we share a slightly different point of view. But isn't that what they call democracy? :p

Coming back to Dom's (DvdFever's) problems I think he has just reminded us of the most likely cause here, namely the new hard disk and those delightful people at Kesh Electronics (Pacelink) in NI who only a few people in the forum these days seem to actually buy Tivo hard drive upgrades from.

Dom may have stated this earlier on in the thread but if he hasn't already done so he should go back to running his original Tivo drives and making recordings with those and see if he gets any popping there. If he doesn't then he should go back to Pacelink asking if he can return the upgrade drive and if they will make him another preformatted hard drive for him using a different make of hard disk. I think you also previously noted blindlemon that this problem was not normally happening with Samsung drives but did seem to happen from time to time on Seagate drives?

Pete77

01-07-2007, 04:46 AM

That said, I haven't seen any threads here or elsewhere via Google that link sound pops to a problematic hard drive which makes me think it's not that.

Well you must have some missed some important posts on this topic then as it has been established elsewhere that certain pre configured installations on certain makes of drive do randomly seem to be causing this popping problem to cut in. And in general Samsung drives are not getting this problem but other makes of drive are.

I'm not sure if I can track down the posts just now but they were only a few weeks ago.

As to the popping sound problem on my own Tivo it was completely cured by turning down the Sky box volume output to about 3/8ths. No pops on sound now ever occur although I have had a couple of recordings lately where the whole broadcast has consisted of a stuck jumbling pixelated image. This is definitely down to the Sky box as if I change channel on the box the jumbling stops. I have been running the Digibox 24/7 for 21 months and its 7 years old or something now so I suspect this is probably a sign the Panny TU-DSB 20 Sky Digibox is about to turn up its toes? Having said that various other forum members do also seem to have reported this problem with a stuck pixellated Sky broadcast during the last few days.

blindlemon

01-07-2007, 05:24 AM

it has been established elsewhere that certain pre configured installations on certain makes of drive do randomly seem to be causing this popping problem to cut inWhere exactly has this been 'established'? :confused:

blindlemon

01-07-2007, 05:28 AM

I am very often singing the praises of your own Tivo upgrading servicesThanks, but I don't see how that gives you the right to attribute to me things I have never said, and then criticise me for them :D

Pete77

01-07-2007, 05:30 AM

Where exactly has this been 'established'? :confused:

I thought I saw a post from none other than you saying this did seem to be happening on some replacement drives but it was unclear why and there was no particular pattern to it.

blindlemon

01-07-2007, 05:31 AM

I was talking about the 'helium sound' problem, not 'pops'.

Pete77

01-07-2007, 05:35 AM

I was talking about the 'helium sound' problem, not 'pops'.

Wow that was a quick response!

OK now you remind me it was the helium sound issue wasn't it but it was a sound related problem.

Dom seems to have eliminated everything else now so my only suggestion would be to put the original drives back in the Tivo and see what happens and failing that to try out the upgrade drive from Pacelink in another Tivo if he can and if anyone else has a spare out of service Tivo they are prepared to lend him.

Pete77

01-07-2007, 05:45 AM

Dom seems to be based somewhere near Manchester judging from the dvdfever.co.uk website.

Does anyone in that part of the world have an out of service Tivo they are prepared to lend to Dom? Alternatively I suppose he could buy an unsubbed one on Ebay and then either sell it again on Ebay or keep it for spares if his own Tivo's motherboard turns out not to be the cause of his sound issues.

dvdfever

01-07-2007, 07:50 AM

In general terms I would doubt that sound 'pops' would be related to a hard drive problem, but you could try replacing the drive with another just to be sure. It may have a fault which randomly causes it to suddenly suck a lot of power from the PSU for a few milliseconds, causing a knock-on effect on the sound chip.

It's a good thought, but I'd have thought that if that was the case it would be a happening on a regular basis at the same frequency whereas this is happening at seemingly random intervals and is happening just after someone's said something or a line of a song's been sung, or something that comes to an end so it's as if the sound's having an occasional problem coming out of processing sounds.

That said I've just heard it do it mid-sentence so perhaps it's the frequency (in audio terms this time) of whatever it's trying to process.

I'm also sure I've heard it via the AUX button, so I'm watching what's coming from the Sky box (which I replaced recently), and also via the VCR button (where I can watch Freeview when the DVD recorder's in standby) so that's making me think it can't be the hard drive and why I followed the theory that it could be the PSU as that was 5 years old and wasn't liking the extra power being drawn from the new hard drive as it was a 120Gb one, but a new PSU proves that's not it (and I really don't fancy changing that)

A new TiVo might not be the answer as all the motherboards are several years old and I don't like the fact that if I bought one with all the trimmings (TiVoweb and cachecard, et al) it could start rebooting whenever it felt like, thus knackering whatever it's recording at the time.

mikerr

01-07-2007, 08:03 AM

Pete77

01-07-2007, 08:10 AM

A new TiVo might not be the answer as all the motherboards are several years old and I don't like the fact that if I bought one with all the trimmings (TiVoweb and cachecard, et al) it could start rebooting whenever it felt like, thus knackering whatever it's recording at the time.

Well I suppose if the Tivo has been sitting in a box for 5 years unused then the motherboard components won't have deteriorated much.

As to a Cachecard and RAM (or all the trimmings as you call it) causing the Tivo to reboot whenever it feels like it that doesn't happen. Reboots are only caused when using a very demanding TivoWeb module like Backup or Highlights or Tracker one after the other. If I leave my Tivo to its own devices it runs for weeks on end without ever rebooting.

I'm beginning to wonder if it couldn't be your tv that is the cause of your sound popping problems. You mentioned something about seeing a funny line on the screen a month or two ago. Have you tried using a different tv instead and seeing if this gets rid of the sound popping issue.

MikeMcr

01-07-2007, 08:11 AM

dvdfever

01-07-2007, 08:59 AM

My TiVo has recently started to make these popping sounds as well. Changing the sound output level on my Panasonic Sky Digibox did not help.

Another thought; is your TiVo affected by the problem where the sound chip does not initialise properly from a cold boot? Mine is and I always have to do a second warm boot to get it working. I wonder if the two problems are connected but it has only recently started with the popping problem.

How do I do a warm reboot? I see there's a Standby option but then it just comes back on with the TiVo button and doesn't appear to have done anything different.

(Edit: And does this warm reboot solve the popping problem? I've read about a problem with audio not being heard at all after a cold reboot but I haven't had that problem.)

To Mikerr and Pete77, I wondered if the amp (hadn't thought about the TV) might be the problem, but then the recordings have happened when both have been switched off. That said, the TV's only been in standby so I might actually try switching it off properly when I'm next going out and I'll see how that goes.

dvdfever

01-07-2007, 09:12 AM

Clicks and pops sounds to me like a capacitor breaking down.. are any of the caps on the motherboard bulging? They should be perfectly flat topped, not rounded or "rusty" on top.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PSU_Caps.jpg

Note if you are runnning this though an amp.. the faulty capacitor may be in the amp, or even in the tv :(

That's an intriguing effect in the picture on the latter link, which I can only describe without getting barred for posting something smutty that looks like a slug has left a trail through it, as I noticed that on a capacitor on the old PSU down by the joints. I didn't think anything of it at the time but I guess it needed replacing. I didn't notice if the new PSU had anything like that, but it shouldn't if it's new.

I don't want to open it up again unless I really need to as it's a bit of a bugger to extract it from my A/V setup, and with the amp below the TiVo and the VCR and Sky box above it, and just one pair of hands, at some point the VCR and Sky box are going to say hello to Mr Gravity however careful I try to be :)

Pete77

01-07-2007, 09:35 AM

How do I do a warm reboot? I see there's a Standby option but then it just comes back on with the TiVo button and doesn't appear to have done anything different.

1. Warm Reboot

Tivo Central/Messages & Setup/System Reset/Restart the recorder

At the Powering Up screen allow the machine to continue rebooting all the way through back to Tivo Central.

2. Cold Reboot

Tivo Central/Messages & Setup/System Reset/Restart the recorder

Pull The Power Plug out of the mains at the Powering Up screen and then wait two minutes before plugging back in again.

It seems that some things don't get reset properly after a Cold Reboot according to some others here, although I always rather suspect that this is if they simply pull out the mains plug when the Tivo is at Tivo Central rather than only doing it just as the Tivo is at the Powering Up screen and has therefore shut down properly before the mains is pulled. Imagine the difference on a desktop Windows PC between just pulling the plug at a Desktop screen with several programs open and shutting down the machine properly before pulling out the power plug.

TCM2007

01-07-2007, 10:33 AM

Pete77

01-07-2007, 10:38 AM

Cold reboot = pull the plug. Nothing to be gained by initiating a warm reboot first.

TiVo si not a Windows PC. It's operating syteme etc are on a read only partion and its designed as a CE appliace to be switched off by pluulling the plug.

S

Strange then that I seem to have avoided the problems experienced by those doing a cold reboot via pulling the plug at any old screen by only pulling the plug at Powering Up.

Surely CE devices normally only use solid state memory devices with battery backup rather than hard drives and a mains supply as a Tivo does?

TCM2007

01-07-2007, 10:45 AM

A CE device needs to be designed to operate in the real world environment and therefore be switched off by pulling the plug. TiVo is so designed. All operating system and program files are held on a read only partition and the environoment is rebuilt from scratch at power on.

I'm not sure what you are going on about re: having avoided these problems by switching off during at restart. I have not had these problems either and i just plull the plug.

Pete77

01-07-2007, 12:01 PM

A CE device needs to be designed to operate in the real world environment and therefore be switched off by pulling the plug.

Don't all those millions of office desktop PCs operate in a real world environment then and most of them don't seem to have UPS's at the end user level. ;)

I thought the point of CE devices was to be small, portable, run on batteries and to be able to boot up with almost no waiting time from a suspended to memory state. A Tivo only seems to run from the mains, has hard drives and has an inordinately lengthy bootup time to rival any Windows XP desktop machine.

Blindlemon hasn't disagreed with me that doing a System Reset to Powering Up before pulling the plug is Best Practice in previous posts I have made in threads in which he was participating.

TCM2007

01-07-2007, 12:08 PM

I expect he couldn't be bothered.

Don't know why you think CE devices only run on batteries. My TV, hi-fi etc are CE devices. My PC is not.

But I expect as always you know best.

Pete77

01-07-2007, 12:46 PM

Don't know why you think CE devices only run on batteries. My TV, hi-fi etc are CE devices. My PC is not.

I thought you meant a Tivo is a Windows CE like device in features, although I of course realise that a Tivo runs using Linux.

However it appears you just meant its a Consumer Electronics device which is an incredibly broad and vague category. So a Notebook PC isn't a Consumer Electronics device then? :confused: :eek:

TCM2007

01-07-2007, 01:50 PM

No.

Pete77

01-07-2007, 01:57 PM

No. :confused: :(

TCM2007

01-07-2007, 02:52 PM

No, a notebook PC isn't a consumer electronics device in the conventional sense. Just being elctrinic and being used by "consumers" does not make something a CE device. Fridges are not CE devices.

It's quite hard to write a formal definition, but that PCs and CE devices are different is most clear when you try to build a PC which acts like a CE device, ie Windows Media Center.

Pete77

01-07-2007, 03:22 PM

Surely a Tivo can't be a CE device though as its possible for the end user to modify the operating software and change component parts without needing a specialist engineer with proprietary tools? ;) :p

dvdfever

01-07-2007, 07:08 PM

1. Warm Reboot

Tivo Central/Messages & Setup/System Reset/Restart the recorder

At the Powering Up screen allow the machine to continue rebooting all the way through back to Tivo Central.

Alas, it didn't stop the pops. I'll try switching the TV off properly tomorrow rather than leaving it on standby to see if that's causing a problem with it, and then report back.

dvdfever

01-07-2007, 08:24 PM

MikeMcr

01-08-2007, 04:19 PM

I forgot to ask - what type of hard drive do you have and if it was replaced with a bigger one at any time, did you notice when the audio pops began - before or after the new drive was put in?Samsung and has been fine for many years so I do not think the drive is at fault. It has only started with the popping sounds in the last few weeks.

Also, does the warm reboot solve the audio pops for you as it doesn't for meNo. I need the warm reboot to get any audio but I still get the audio pops.

dvdfever

01-08-2007, 06:35 PM

Samsung and has been fine for many years so I do not think the drive is at fault. It has only started with the popping sounds in the last few weeks.

No. I need the warm reboot to get any audio but I still get the audio pops.

I had more proof today that the audio popping has been going on far longer than I realised, as I finally got round to listening to the first part of series 1 of Linda Smith's A Brief History of Timewasting which was broadcast on BBC7 shortly after she died last February (well, I think the broadcast actually came in July).

Great show, but I heard those pops in there, which just dumbfounds me how I never realised they were there on other things that I did watch (and I use it daily) before I changed the hard drive as I never noticed them until then.

I tried switching the TV off properly but to no avail, but the fact that other TiVo owners are starting to have this happen must mean that it's a fault in the TiVo itself and it can only be a matter of time before it affects ever user as the motherboards age, since that's the only thing left to go after replacing the PSU and the hard drive.

As much as I'd hate to lose the use of my TiVo as a main machine, it's making me look towards over PVRs.

However, has anyone ever asked TiVo about this problem? I guess they've just say that it's down to the age of the unit, given that they weren't meant to be in service this long. It's such a crying shame that it's impossible to buy a brand new replacement that's never been used and only made recently.

Wouldn't even new, unused motherboards have shown some form of decay over the years? At a cost of £199 on the Pacelink site, I think, it'd be cheaper to buy a used one on Ebay.