Multiple dishes / multiswitch question

[rsramirez]

Hi folks,

Question:

If I currently have 1 dish & 2 cables running in & 2 Dtivo receivers, can I use the same set of cables for a second dish for international programming (possibly merging the signals w/ a multiswitch), or do I have to run a separate set of cables for the 2nd dish?

I live in a condo, and it's a really big pain to run a 2nd set of cables that I believe I'll need for The Filipino Channel.

Thanks.
-R

[dishrich]

What kind of dish are you using for your primary dish, oval or round???

If you now have a round dish, a standard 4x4 switch will work.
If it's the oval dish you MUST use the Zinewell 6x8.

[rsramirez]

What kind of dish are you using for your primary dish, oval or round???

If you now have a round dish, a standard 4x4 switch will work.
If it's the oval dish you MUST use the Zinewell 6x8.

My primary dish is round. So based on what you're saying, I could put a 4x4 switch at the dishes (my primary round and the 2nd dish for international programming (TFC)), and have the signals "combine," for lack of a better word, and then use the existing 2 cables that go down into my unit. Is that correct?

Inside my unit, I currently have a multiswitch that splits the 2 cables to the 2 DTivos I have.

Does the fact that the dish is on the roof and I'm on the 3rd floor make a difference (there's 6 floors + roof; therefore I'm 4 floors down). I did a quick search and saw that there are waterproof multiswitches available.

Thanks!

PS: For kicks, if I were to replace my primary round dish w/ a dish for HD, how does that complicate things?

[luder]

I agree with dishrich the type of dish is very important and other then that you have to plan ahead before you make the move..for example Some people look into HD TV some perfer standered programing on top of there international programing and for people that are hardcore Asians get the 19.99 basic packaging with there international channels.. it really depends on what you might be intrested and want to get..

[rsramirez]

Well, I currently just have the standard def Total Choice Plus package. Been promising the little woman TFC forever. So 1st priority is just adding TFC.

Down the line (or now, if possible) would be to add HD programming (both locals and satellite). I'm doing all of this trying not to add any additional cables to the 2 that I currently have running in from my single (primary) round dish, knowing that if I do get HD, I would change my dish.

So I'm looking for concrete options for the 2 above scenarios. When I called dtv, they said I had to run another set of cables, while a random installer I talked to (he was working on a neighbor's dish), said I wouldn't have to. So I'm trying to get my options straight.

Thanks!
-R

[dishrich]

rsramirez - either way, you ARE going to have a problem with using the inside multiswitch. You CANNOT cascade a switch AFTER the outside switch & still get ALL your required prog. (I'm glad you mentioned your existing switch in your follow-up post ;) ) Here's what your options are if you stay SD vs HD:

If you stay SD & ONLY add the international dish, what you will need to do is run ONE coax from the international LNB to where your existing switch is & replace it with the 4x4 switch. Now however, I should tell you in case you are NOT aware - the dish for the international channels is quite large, but it ALSO picks up all the prog you are currently getting with your round dish. If you are satisfied with this arrangement, then you ONLY need the one new international dish w/the 4x4 switch & will NO longer require the round one.

However, if you also want either HD, &/or your MPEG4 HD locals, then you will have to have TWO dishes on your balcony. While the oval dish for the national HD channels is not that much larger than your round dish, the MPEG4 dish is quite a bit larger & heavier than the oval dish. Either of these dishes will NOT pick up the international satellite, so you'll end up having 2 dishes in either case.
It then gets MORE complicated on your switches - if you put the switch inside where your existing one is, you'll need 3 MORE coax runs from your dishes. (2 more from the HD dish & 1 for the international dish) If you put the switch outside, you'll still need 2 added coax for the 2nd Tivo.

Another point I should make - your D-Tivo's MUST be Series II boxes to see the international satellite. Series I's do NOT have the firmware to recognize it & there are no upgrades you can do to change this.

[luder]

Okay i got it .. What you need to find is a Non-Powered Multiswitch
The international dish uses a 18v 22 khz tone for the 95 bird

The TFC are on the 101 bird
and it uses 13v 0khz and 13v 22khz according to D* they are related to odd and even channels

Since you have two receivers you can pretty much pull this off only.. that if only you have a outdoor multiswitch on the patio now it can't be just any ole multiswitch you need to find a multiswitch that is non powered with a flex-port the problem is you can 't just find this in any retail store.

Now on HD channels I'm not to sure what bird it looks at but, i'm hopeing that the HD pros chime into this one.

On your current setup did d* have there guys install all the wires for you?

[dishrich]

you need to find a multiswitch that is non powered with a flex-port the problem is you can 't just find this in any retail store.

NOT true - as I just told him, any plain D* 4x4 (or 4x8) switch WILL work with the international & 101 only. You do NOT need a flex port switch in this configuration. (& YES, I do this for work, so do know this for a fact) All the 4x4's I've ever seen ARE non-powered, so that's a moot point, but powered ones (such as the 4x8's) will work equally well. You simply run the 95 LNB into the 18V/22khz side of the 4x4 & leave the 13V/22khz unconnected.

And to repeat myself again, he ONLY needs a flex-port switch if he's wanting to do anything with the oval or HD dishes AND internationals.

In any event, any of these switches can easily be bought on various internet sites & e-bay... ;)

[luder]

NOT true - as I just told him, any plain D* 4x4 (or 4x8) switch WILL work with the international & 101 only. You do NOT need a flex port switch in this configuration. (& YES, I do this for work, so do know this for a fact) All the 4x4's I've ever seen ARE non-powered, so that's a moot point, but powered ones (such as the 4x8's) will work equally well. You simply run the 95 LNB into the 18V/22khz side of the 4x4 & leave the 13V/22khz unconnected.

And to repeat myself again, he ONLY needs a flex-port switch if he's wanting to do anything with the oval or HD dishes AND internationals.

In any event, any of these switches can easily be bought on various internet sites & e-bay... ;)

Nice :D
:up: :up: :up:

I am curious, so your saying i could of saved by finding multi-switch and would of done the same job as my BMS-58.. I ask myself why I bought this 100 dollar block :(

[rsramirez]

So let me see if I get this straight.. here my options:

1a) SD + International(TFC): Existing primary round dish with 2 cables, ADD international dish with 1 cable, run all 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables go into EACH of my dual-tuner series2 dtivos

OR

1b) SD + International(TFC): Replace primary round dish with oval dish that works for both SD and International, run 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables go into EACH of my dual-tuner series2 dtivos

and if I want to go the HD route:
2) Replace primary round dish with HD dish with 2 cables, add International dish with 1 cable, run all 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables EACH go into 2 HD Dtivo receivers

Are all of those options above correct?

[luder]

So let me see if I get this straight.. here my options:

1a) SD + International(TFC): Existing primary round dish with 2 cables, ADD international dish with 1 cable, run all 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables go into EACH of my dual-tuner series2 dtivos

OR

1b) SD + International(TFC): Replace primary round dish with oval dish that works for both SD and International, run 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables go into EACH of my dual-tuner series2 dtivos


We should of asked if they were dual channel or not okay check this link out for the international dish it's a good buy with no contract

You need a 36 inch wide angle dish click here (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DIRECTV-INTERNATIONAL-DISH-95-101-Direct-TV-fast_W0QQitemZ250056480215QQihZ015QQcategoryZ32841QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)





and if I want to go the HD route:
2) Replace primary round dish with HD dish with 2 cables, add International dish with 1 cable, run all 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables EACH go into 2 HD Dtivo receivers


you would need international and this HD sat click below
HD Route Sat click here (http://cgi.ebay.com/DIRECTV-SATELLITE-HD-HIGH-DEF-KAKU-5-LNB-5LNB-DISH_W0QQitemZ220056669649QQihZ012QQcategoryZ32841QQrdZ1QQcm dZViewItem)


SD+International = 3 wires to multi switch

HD+international = 6 wires to multi switch

since you have two dual tuner d tivos you would need four outputs
so were back to adding wires to the hole since it's not recommended to cascade a mutli-switch..

Note:
Buyer beware ebay online purchases is subject to the individual and searches must be done from the user who is interested. Links that are supplied here are for example and is not liable for any complications that my or be afflicted to the end user thank you

[dishrich]

1a) SD + International(TFC): Existing primary round dish with 2 cables, ADD international dish with 1 cable, run all 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables go into EACH of my dual-tuner series2 dtivos

OR

1b) SD + International(TFC): Replace primary round dish with oval dish that works for both SD and International, run 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables go into EACH of my dual-tuner series2 dtivos

Correct on both, but NOT sure why you'd want to w/1a, when 1b would do the same thing w/only ONE dish

and if I want to go the HD route:
2) Replace primary round dish with HD dish with 2 cables, add International dish with 1 cable, run all 3 cables into a 4x4 multiswitch, and have 2 cables EACH go into 2 HD Dtivo receivers

No, you MUST use the 6x8 switch & you MUST run 4 coax from the HD dish to that same switch, then run ONE coax from the international dish to the flexport on the 6x8. (I have NO clue where luder is coming up with the 6th wire, since the HD dish ONLY has 4 total outputs TO the switch :rolleyes: :confused: ) And, as I already told you several posts back, you CANNOT cascade this switch with your existing one & be able to get ALL the prog you want. You would obviously need to run a 2nd pair of coax in from the 6x8 outside to make your 2nd Tivo work.

BTW, you ARE sure that your D-Tivo's ARE SII's, right???

[dishrich]

I am curious, so your saying i could of saved by finding multi-switch and would of done the same job as my BMS-58.. I ask myself why I bought this 100 dollar block :(

Uh yea, I guess that's what I'm saying (not really sure what you're even asking me)...but yea, you could have gotten by just as easily with the 4x4.
I assume you bought it 'cause you like spending extra money you don't need to, or got some bad info??? :D :eek:

[luder]

Uh yea, I guess that's what I'm saying (not really sure what you're even asking me)...but yea, you could have gotten by just as easily with the 4x4.
I assume you bought it 'cause you like spending extra money you don't need to, or got some bad info??? :D :eek:

so what's the differance between powered and non-power multi-switch oh great one :D

[dishrich]

so what's the differance between powered and non-power multi-switch oh great one :D

It's just depends on the particular design of the switch by a particular manufacturer.
In my experience, (& yes, I've been installing/servicing satellite since before DBS with the "real" dishes/BUD's, BTW) if you are only talking about a single-sat input switch &/or a 4-out switch, (like the 3x8's & 4x4's) the non-powered versions are fine. In your particular instance, there is nothing wrong with the one you're using, but since you are ONLY running 2 receivers, obviously it's more than you really needed. (but OTOH you'll be ready to add more receivers in the future ;) :) ) But since you also asked, you paid WAY too much for that particular switch, but then again, CC & BB will rape you on parts like that. (e-bay's actually a great place to get bargins on switches - I've actually bought many brand new ones for my business for LESS than I could by them from my distributors. :D ;) )

However on the larger switches, I would always prefer powered ones to non-powered. That is why I ALWAYS try to avoid using those D* 6x8 switches if at all possible. I have had several problems with clients that had these put in by D*, & the ONLY thing they were running were the 2 18" dishes. (our area requires a 2nd 18" dish for locals) They would constantly get "searching for signal" errors on their receivers, but after I changed them out to powered 4x8's, all their problems went away.

I think having those 6x8's being powered solely by the receivers is a stupid design - understand that NOT only are the receivers powering the 6x8 itself, they are ALSO powering the internal switches in the oval or MPEG4, AS WELL as the LNB's in ALL the dishes to boot. The power supplies in those receivers was never intended to run that big of load.

As I said, the ONLY time you really need the 6x8, is if you require the HD or oval dish for your primary one AND you also require the international &/or the 2nd 18" locals dish - unfortunately, there is NO other choice in this instance. If it was for myself, or if the client was willing to spend the extra $$$, I'd use the new WB6x16 switch on an MPEG4 install, since at least it IS powered.