S3 or 8300hd DVR

[hglass]

What is the difference???

[squiddohio]

For their basic function, they will both record a show in HD and play it back.

The difference is that the TiVo works intuitively, easily, and has almost no learning curve. It has two weeks of program data available, and many more ways to search for programs.

The 8300 has an interface designed by people who don't watch TV. It reacts slowly, requires several button presses of several different buttons to do what the TiVo will do far more readily. Program data goes out only about 5 or 6 days, so on a Sunday you can't use the guide to see what's on next Sunday. The 8300 has quality control problems, and often breaks down and has to be replaced (but it's a rental). TiVos seldom break down (my 3 S1s are still running without failure -- 5 years or so).

The 8300 has a 20 hour capacity; the S3 has a 30 hour capacity and can be expanded (when the sata port is activated).

If you need to just record HD shows, the 8300 can be tolerated, but the S3 is a delight to use. That's why folks have been shelling out $800 to buy it, and then turn in their rented 8300s back to the cable company. It's just that good.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[rodalpho]

The 8300hd can be expanded with esata right now; it works. Otherwise, agree with every point. It costs $800, but it's a much better product.

[hookbill]

Speaking from experience, the SA 8300 is an absolute pos compared to the S3. It's search functions are almost non existant. It constantly has picture, sound drop offs. I went through 3 of them in 2 years. Not one was better then the other. I had a problem with my eSATA, it was a Maxt Quickview Expander, I went through 2 of those and I concluded it was a problem with the SA 8300 in my area as most people didn't have this problem. The main problem there was partial recordings.

PQ on SD programs is so much better on the S3 the the SA 8300 it's incredible. I had them both hooked up for a while before my cable cards were installed and compared them. HD pq is also much better.

Frequently I experienced excessive sound drop offs on the SA 8300 and while I can't say that I never get a sound drop off on the S3 it's only very brief and doesn't sound like a digital nightmare. In fact it's nothing more then a brief skip.

In my area the guide didn't allow for you to choose if you wanted to record first run only, so if a program came on twice during the week that you had two other programs running on at that time the SA 8300 simply would not record anything. It has no "priorities", no real "season pass".

I hated the SA 8300 from the moment I got it, having experienced TiVo before through D*. The only thing I like about it is you could see how much disk space you had and you could look at the guide to see if a program was being recorded. That's not really a big deal however since you can also just look at TiVo's "To do list" to see what's going to be recorded.

It was worth every penny I paid for it. No regrets.

[squiddohio]

I think only those 8300s running SARA have the SATA port activated to allow an expansion drive. Those running Passport have not had that port activated yet. As for me, I've had enough side-by-side comparison. I'm returning the 8300 next week to get it off my bill and out of my life.

The 30 hours is very nice, but as soon as the TiVo update arrives which allows for an expansion drive, I will get one for sure. I expanded my S1s and sometimes watch shows months after they are recorded -- I don't think you can have too much capacity. It would be nice to store a few movies from HBO and Showtime to watch when I have time and not have to worry about them being deleted because of a supersized "Heros" sweeps stunt (just wait until May).

In the meantime,

Save the TiVo -- Save the World.

[slimoli]

I have both and my guess is that the 8300 software was programmed by a beginner. You must 'babysit" the 8300 every day in order to be sure it will record what it's supposed to . The 8300 is no match for the S3.

Sergio

[skanter]

I think only those 8300s running SARA have the SATA port activated to allow an expansion drive. Those running Passport have not had that port activated yet.

Incorrect, at least here in NYC with TWC. I've just added a 320GB eSATA HD to my Passport SA8300. I now have 426GB of capacity.

With Passport, however, you do lose the buffer on the eSATA recorded material -- a small price to pay for added capacity. Also, all recording problems stopped when I added eSATA drive, making me conclude that 8300 problems have to do with limited HD space. Newest version of software seems to do all I need it to do.

I, for one, am pretty satisfied with 8300 performance and am in no rush to get S3, especially with limited capacity and no eSATA. When S3 has all the features of my S2 and eSATA, I'll take another look.

[hookbill]

I have both and my guess is that the 8300 software was programmed by a beginner. You must 'babysit" the 8300 every day in order to be sure it will record what it's supposed to . The 8300 is no match for the S3.

Sergio


Well said. You really have to check every day to make sure your recordings will go as you have scheduled.

[jimest]

I have had Direct Tv with TiVo, I now have the SA8300HD with passport software and I am happy with it, one of the things I don't like about it is the limited guide data, I wish it would show whats playing for the next 2 weeks instead of about 5 days.

But I have not had any problems with it not recording shows and I think the search function is easy enough.

Jim

[RandyDtg]

I'll just add, we have had a TiVo S2 for three years, I had my SA8300 HD for ten months, with my series 2 Tivo next to it. It is hard to believe the cable decision makers can't do better or insist on better.

I have now had my TiVo S3 for a few weeks, I got the 750 Gig drive in it, paradise and well worth the cost, you only live once. I dont need a SATA drive with this big TioVo. I put the TiVo S3 as one thousand times better than the SA8300 HD. I can not tell you how glad I am with the S3. The list of SA problems make me laugh, yup, I saw every one of them. I even think my TiVo's HD picture quality is better too. I' have using TiVo, found shows to watch that I never would have with the SA. The TiVo wishlist and search works with all of the cable channels, digital, HiDef, and Premium, what a great thing!!! People complaining about time it takes, heck, it has six or more times the channel listings to go thru. My SA on several occasions listed three things to be recorded at the same time, like when a show would start to air again after being off for a while, and something had been put in that time slot. Nothing was recorded.

If an HD show was important, I scheduled it on my TiVo S2 just in case the SA didnt record, and that happened several times. A show would be scheduled on my SA, and then not get recorded. Oh, and 6 weeks after I had an SA it died, and had to be replaced. Oh, that was 'free' if you dont count loss of service, not getting to see the recorded shows, and having to re-program your shows into the replaced SA.

[cwoody222]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=319217

[hookbill]

I
But I have not had any problems with it not recording shows and I think the search function is easy enough.

Jim

Really? So you can just type in the name of the show and it will fine it for you? Not unless you happen to be on the day it's showing. Compared to TiVo it's not even in the same class. I found it's search function useless, I never used it.

[Jerry_K]

Let's see if I can summarize, Website is TIVO community, Forum is TIVO serie3 HDTV DRVs, wonder what answer you are going to get?

That said, TiVo is the best, bar none, without a question, and if you don't believe me, ask my lovely wife.

[skanter]

Really? So you can just type in the name of the show and it will fine it for you? Not unless you happen to be on the day it's showing. Compared to TiVo it's not even in the same class. I found it's search function useless, I never used it.

I think different people have older and newer versions of both Passport and SARA SA8300s, so one cannot discuss features and problems of the SA8300 as if it is just a generic unit. Mileage will vary with different software.

After having Tivo for three years, I am not unhappy with a free box (Passport, latest version) with two tuners that records HD with no problems and lets me add an eSATA drive for a little more than 100 bucks. I've got 60-70hrs HD capacity.

The search feature works fine -- one button press on a program in the guide shows all future programs. The search entry is much faster than Tivo's as it only shows letters that will make a title that appears in the guide -- a function tivo should have. It also informs me when recording live event if I want to pad (did Tivo just add that feature?). I do not use suggestions on Tivo so the lack of that feature means nothing to me.

When S3 has HMO (with photos in HD), eSATA, TTG and other features that my S2 has, I'll think of spending the $$$, but right now the SA8300 does the job fine. Since I added the eSATA 320G HD the recording has been flawless, I haven't missed one show.

[astrohip]

The behavior of, and thus one's happiness with, the SA DVRs is very dependent on the software running, SARA or Passport (and even the version of that software).

Having said that, there is still no comparison. I have four different DVRs--my ratings:

SA8000: 2
SA8300HD 5
TiVo S2 8
TiVo S3 HD 9

This is based on everyday use, both mine as a heavy watcher/user who is very picky, and my wife's, who is a more casual user. It is based on everything from ease of search, to ability to fine-tune your Season Passes. About the only thing I prefer on the SA units is the free space indicator. The Deleted Folder on the S2 performs this same function, and I anxiously await its rollout on the S3.

Do not ridicule a FSI until you have used one.

[skanter]

Do not ridicule a FSI until you have used one.

I would never ridicule an FSI, whether I've used one, bought one, or borrowed one!

Um, what's an FSI? :confused: Is this an acronym that is univerally known?

[Austin_Martin]

Here's a difference between the two.....

Case 1 - two shows on tuesday at the same time with season passes. I want to add a third(nip/tuck) which is on at 9-10, and 10-11. But the start times are never exact(one week 9-10:04, next week 9-10:06, etc).

SA8300HD - if I put a season pass for 9-10 showing, one of the other shows will not be recorded. Which one, anybody's guess since there's no priority scheduling of season passes. Other option, highlight the 10-11 showing, and record season pass "only at this time". But since it's a different time every week(10:05, 10:06, etc), it is random whether it will be recorded or not. But if you look at the guide data, every week it says it will record, but doesn't always record. Extremely frustrating.

TIVO - put in a season pass for 9-10 showing, and put it as a lower priority than the other two, and TiVo is smart enough to record the later showing. :)


Case 2 - try to record cold case on Sundays. Since football usually pushes it back up to an hour, would be nice to pad show.

SA8300HD - put in a season pass for show, but put option "record an extra hour". First week, all will be well. Second week and beyond, no padding. Extrememly frustrating.

TiVO - put in a season pass with padding of an hour. Every week will be recorded for the extra hour. :)


So , the main difference that I've seen, is that the programmers for the 8300 put in the least "acceptable" features to push it out the door. TiVo programmers actually put in useful features.

[hookbill]

Here's a difference between the two.....

Case 1 - two shows on tuesday at the same time with season passes. I want to add a third(nip/tuck) which is on at 9-10, and 10-11. But the start times are never exact(one week 9-10:04, next week 9-10:06, etc).

SA8300HD - if I put a season pass for 9-10 showing, one of the other shows will not be recorded. Which one, anybody's guess since there's no priority scheduling of season passes. Other option, highlight the 10-11 showing, and record season pass "only at this time". But since it's a different time every week(10:05, 10:06, etc), it is random whether it will be recorded or not. But if you look at the guide data, every week it says it will record, but doesn't always record. Extremely frustrating.

TIVO - put in a season pass for 9-10 showing, and put it as a lower priority than the other two, and TiVo is smart enough to record the later showing. :)


Case 2 - try to record cold case on Sundays. Since football usually pushes it back up to an hour, would be nice to pad show.

SA8300HD - put in a season pass for show, but put option "record an extra hour". First week, all will be well. Second week and beyond, no padding. Extrememly frustrating.

TiVO - put in a season pass with padding of an hour. Every week will be recorded for the extra hour. :)


So , the main difference that I've seen, is that the programmers for the 8300 put in the least "acceptable" features to push it out the door. TiVo programmers actually put in useful features.

Great examples. And absolutely true. :up: Matter of fact there were several shows that I would not set up for "regular recordings" (I won't call them season passes on the SA 8300) and would just have to keep in my head to review each week. Nip/Tuck was one of these. Lost was another since it would end a minute or two late.

[jimest]

Here's a difference between the two.....

SA8300HD - if I put a season pass for 9-10 showing, one of the other shows will not be recorded. Which one, anybody's guess since there's no priority scheduling of season passes. Other option, highlight the 10-11 showing, and record season pass "only at this time". But since it's a different time every week(10:05, 10:06, etc), it is random whether it will be recorded or not. But if you look at the guide data, every week it says it will record, but doesn't always record. Extremely frustrating.

TIVO - put in a season pass for 9-10 showing, and put it as a lower priority than the other two, and TiVo is smart enough to record the later showing. :)



I don't know what software you have on your SA8300HD but mine has a "Series Recording Priority" similar to TiVO, I have Passport software on mine, I have had no problems with it missing recordings.

Jim

[gbronzer]

It seems clear to me there are three distinct groups here:

Tivo S3 - It rocks!

SA8300 w/ Passport - It's decent and works fine.

SA8300 wo/Passport - It sucks.

I've only ever used SA8300's with the Sara software, and I agree it's about as bad as it gets. But does anyone know who/which/where cable providers use the Passport software. I'd think if he had access to Passport, then he might consider it since it's cheaper, but if he can only get Sara then I'd recommend spending the bucks on the Tivo.

Is there any way to find out which software your cable provider uses without renting the box?

[dt_dc]

Is there any way to find out which software your cable provider uses without renting the box?1) Check out the AVS local threads ... other local users will probably know:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=45

2) Call / email the cable company and ask

3) Check out the cable company's support site ... they often have screen shots / manuals / whatever for their DVR

In general, Time Warner is the main Passport user for SciAtl platforms. Cox uses Passport ... but only on Motorola hardware. They use SARA on all SciAtl platforms. I don't think Comcast has ever bought a Passport license. Some of the other main Passport customers are Blue Ridge Communications, Bright House Networks, and Metrocast Cablevision ... dunno if they are running SciAtl or Moto hardware.

BTW, the Time Warner / (Pioneer) Passport is interesting (and relavant to Tivo). Several of the developers that worked on Time Warner's Full Service Network trial went on to form the core group that developed Pioneer Passport. Jim Barton was also involved in the Full Service Network trial before he went on to co-found a little company called Tivo ...

[vstone]

I'll just add, we have had a TiVo S2 for three years, I had my SA8300 HD for ten months, with my series 2 Tivo next to it. It is hard to believe the cable decision makers can't do better or insist on better.
...Bingo. Regardless of what they say, cable companies consider service an expense, not an asset. They don't care about the quality of the product as long as they can say they have a DVR. Most SA8300HD users have probably never even seen a Tivo. Some of them probably think that Tivo is a generic term and that they have one. The 8300 appears to be a great leap forward for most consumers, even though it can't measure up to a 7 year old S1.

As an aside, most of the local cable system employees are very friendly and helpful, but their employers keep them in the dark.

I had Tivo with DirecTV, then I eventually went back to cable due to D*'s overcompression of signals. Eventually we got an 8300 when they became available here and she thinks that's a Tivo, even though it's screwed up many recordings of her programs and I bought an S3 to properly record programs.

Our Adelphia system just got taken over by Comcast. It will be interesting to see if Motorola DVR's start replacing the SA DVR's, since the Moto boxes are the platform for the Comacst Tivo units.

I have an 8300HD with eSATA. As soon as the S3 gets eSATA and I burn up the movies recorded on the 8300, its gone.

[BruceShultes]

I have an 8300HD, an HR10-250 D* Tivo, and a S3.

I fully agree that the S3 shines in comparison to the 8300HD.

However, one of the other big advantages of both the S3 and the HR10-250 is that they can record over the air transmissions from your antenna. If your cable is compressing it's network signals as much as mine (Time Warner), the over the air picture is the only way to go.

[skanter]

I don't know what software you have on your SA8300HD but mine has a "Series Recording Priority" similar to TiVO, I have Passport software on mine, I have had no problems with it missing recordings.

Jim

My Passport version has the same Series Recording Priority where you move the program up or down the list, just like Tivo.

I hear that TWC is coming out with new software that wil supercede both Passport and SARA.

[hglass]

If you have a 8300 how do you know what version of software you are running??
Is there a button you can hit on the remote(Like Tivo) and it tells you what software version you have??

[jeffk]

On the receiver itself. hold down select until you see a blinkign mailbox icon, then hit info.

there are like 35 pages of diagnostic info. The first page will says software version.



If you have a 8300 how do you know what version of software you are running??
Is there a button you can hit on the remote(Like Tivo) and it tells you what software version you have??

[jeffk]

One disadvantage for some, just worth mentioning is the S3 cannot do PPV or VOD because of the version of cablecards supported [the 2.0 spec i dont believe is done, and the s3 can never do ppv or vod from what i understand].

For most, I don't think it's an issue.

Jeff

[skanter]

If you have a 8300 how do you know what version of software you are running??
Is there a button you can hit on the remote(Like Tivo) and it tells you what software version you have??

You need to get into diagnostic mode, which will show you a wealth of info, including how much capacity is used on HD and how much is left. Why doesn't Tivo S3 have this?

To access diagnostic screen, hold SELECT on cable box, then either INFO or EXIT (I forget which). then use page up and down buttons on box to access different pages.
You will find version #, plus lots more. Hit POWER button to get out of diag. mode.

[astrohip]

You need to get into diagnostic mode, which will show you a wealth of info, including how much capacity is used on HD and how much is left. Why doesn't Tivo S3 have this?

You don't have to enter diag mode to see HD used/free. SA units have always had a FSI. :D

[rodalpho]

You don't have to enter diag mode to see HD used/free. SA units have always had a FSI. :D
I think tivo has some sort of religious objection to this. We've been asking for it since like 1999.