Veronica Mars 11/21/2006 (S03E08) "Lord of the Pi's" [Text View]

LoadStar

11-21-2006, 09:52 PM

I'm confused. Veronica's quote was "How many of them WERE real? I mean, other than Chip Diller's. There hasn't been any forensic evidence..." What is she referring to when she says "other than Chip Diller's?" So far, Chip hasn't been conclusively connected with any of the rapes. Is she just going on the assumption that the one from last season's "The Rapes of Graff" was him?

It is interesting that they did come out and confirm - no evidence of rape.

It's fascinating seeing Logan coming completely unglued and turning into stalker-boy. That was already a seriously unhealthy relationship between the two of them... it just turned really ugly tonight. LoVe shippers are gonna hate that one...

Edit: TWoP to the rescue... apparently Veronica was referring to what the girls did to Chip, not that Chip did any of them.

alpacaboy

11-21-2006, 10:13 PM

Stupid stupid Los Angeles basketball game on CW... :mad:

dsmoot

11-21-2006, 10:18 PM

Im not reading this thread, since Im in LA also, but it looks like KTLA is planning on running this ep this sat 11/25 at 9:00 PM.

mwhip

11-22-2006, 12:36 AM

Stupid stupid Los Angeles basketball game on CW... :mad:

Yeah that helps the ratings. Good think LA is not a major market or anything. :rolleyes:

Did we really need Patty Hearst in this??? That has got to be some of the worst acting ever. If she was that bad after her real life SLA kidnapping I am surprised anyone believed her about Stockholm syndrome or brainwashing.

DevdogAZ

11-22-2006, 01:41 AM

After the 1st fake rape was discovered I knew the rest were faked too. So who roofied Veronica's drink last week?
I called it as well, in last week's thread. I liked this episode a lot, and really liked Veronica's little tribute to The Who.

JETarpon

11-22-2006, 02:13 AM

crowfan

11-22-2006, 06:53 AM

GDG76

11-22-2006, 07:22 AM

That whole scene where Keith goes to see Budd Rose (nice name, BTW) was *right* out of The Big Lebowski. Right down to the servant's name, Brant. Looking at the stuff on the wall, etc., and for God's sake, the guy was in a wheelchair! :) I know that was part of the plot for VM but it still fit.

Yeah even the "Please don't touch that" part. There have been a ton of Lebowski quotes/references this year.

Patty Hearst was such a bad actress that I could barely focus this episode. Bad timing for such a bad guest star... Also, now that the popular theory of the girls committing the rapes has been put out there, we know it can't be true. Aside from the women, I really have no clue...

crowfan

11-22-2006, 07:26 AM

Yeah even the "Please don't touch that" part. There have been a ton of Lebowski quotes/references this year.I thought that line was from TBL too but I wasn't sure. I've been watching for them ever since the first one, and this one jumped out at me.

analog4

11-22-2006, 07:38 AM

There was something odd about this episode - it just kept going in circles, and the end result was kind of a "I see this on Law & Order all the time".

Still, it was good, loved the dialog as usual.

I just want Mac back!

jking

11-22-2006, 08:59 AM

Patty Hearst totally trashed this episode for me. I have never seen such bad acting. I'm still not convinced she wasn't reading from cue cards.

LoadStar

11-22-2006, 09:08 AM

See, I didn't think she was all that bad... she was just bad when compared to people like Enrico and Kristen, who are really, really good actors.

GDG76

11-22-2006, 09:15 AM

See, I didn't think she was all that bad... she was just bad when compared to people like Enrico and Kristen, who are really, really good actors.

She had the single worst delivery of anyone I have seen on a television show in a good long while. She had zero timing and the inflection in her voice made it clear she was just reading cue cards- she had no range and no emotion in her voice. Fabio would have looked like a pro doing a scene with her.

I expect more from this show- Patty Hearst isn't going to pop a rating. It's cute given her role and history but I would have canned her after her first take and hired a respectable actress instead.

jking

11-22-2006, 09:29 AM

I had no idea who she was going into the episode, so it's not like I was particularly paying attention in order to critique her ability. She struck me as so bad, though, that I made a point to find out who she was. Once I found out it was Patty Hearst, I was like, "oh, okay, there's your problem".

GDG76

11-22-2006, 09:31 AM

One thing that struck me as odd was the mention of the den mother for the sorority. It just seemed kind of out of place- then it hit me- she has cancer which could tie into the whole no DNA and hair theme of the "rapes". It would fit in with the emphasis on no physical evidence and explain why she went after Veronica.

Does anyone remember how long ago she was diagnosed from the first episode she was in?

Also, in the episode with the missing boyfriend, does anyone remember if they ever figured out why that girl's picture was circled in the yearbook? Maybe she was the next target and one of those two is repsonsible.

They definitely haven't given us as many clues as in previous mysteries. Other than the two scenarios above, I think the RA, the TA, the dean and the professor are the other likely suspects. Speculation based on the preview:

I also think those four or the dean's wife are the likely candidates to die given the preview

GDG76

11-22-2006, 09:39 AM

More speculation- In the missing boyfriend episode, the girl was adamant that her boyfriend didn't surf. Maybe he learned something he shouldn't have about the roommate and he was the one who knocked him out. It would explain why the girl's picture was circled- the roommate had met her and planned on attacking her next.

He also lived next door to Parker (I think- or was it Wallace?) so maybe that one was a crime of opportunity. He also had all the bikini posters on the wall, so they could use that to show he was a bit pervy to begin with...

I know that is a long shot but I know that the writers will have to have SOMETHING from the past episode that gives us clues and I can't really think of any for the other suspects....

Also, the whole Patrice thing came out of nowhere- I'm pretty sure she will end up being the daughter/sister/somehow related to the rapist. Maybe the den mother's daughter?

Magnolia88

11-22-2006, 09:44 AM

They definitely haven't given us as many clues as in previous mysteries. Other than the two scenarios above, I think the RA, the TA, the dean and the professor are the other likely suspects.

I agree that they definitely haven't given us as many clues this time around. In both of the last two big mysteries I had figured out the main points of the who and the why before the final episode. This time I have a guess as to who, but not really as to why.

This is just speculation but I'll spoilerize it anyway:

My guess is Moe the RA, but I have no idea why he's doing it. I think the Dean and his wife will be more heavily involved in the next mystery. I think the wife is going to be killed and we already have several suspects lined up.

GDG76

11-22-2006, 09:56 AM

My guess is Moe the RA, but I have no idea why he's doing it. I think the Dean and his wife will be more heavily involved in the next mystery. I think the wife is going to be killed and we already have several suspects lined up.

I agree that Moe is a viable suspect. Somewhere else I read a theory that it is him and an accomplice- possibly Mercer cause of the cologne and I don't think his GHB was planted. If it is Moe, I think it goes back to him and whoever his accomplice is being involved in the prison experiment with Moe being the submissive prisoner. They have brought that experiment up many times so I have a feeling it may tie in, especially since if it's a student, they would have been there last year. Maybe Patrice is Moe's sister or a former girlfriend...

Dennis Wilkinson

11-22-2006, 11:52 AM

You mean there's another frat boy named Chip Diller (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0077975/)? Didn't look like Kevin Bacon to me... ;)

(I spent most of the episode trying to figure out if that was the character's real name or just what everyone was calling him!)

Zevida

11-22-2006, 12:25 PM

Another disappointing episode IMO. I don't think it would be possible for me to dislike the feminazis anymore. This show usually makes even the worst characters likable (such as Sheriff Lamb and Dick Casablancas) but they've done nothing for those three women. Which I find disappointing as a viewer - let's get some dimension to the characters please.

I am SO. Tired. of the Veronia and Logan storyline. Did anyone not see this coming as soon as they hooked up at the end of season 2? I hated that they got the characters back together because I knew it would be no time before they broke them up again. Then you throw in Veronica's voice over and Piz in the season premiere and it's a ticking time bomb. I'm not all that interested in spending weeks and weeks mulling over their dysfunctional relationship. Either let them be a little bit normal, or just get it over with. I think it's also a bit of residual Duncan-hate. Why can Duncan (arguably with just as messed up a life as Logan, if not more) have a storybook relationship with Veronica (twice!) but Logan and Veronica (the "epic" love) get together and it's miserable?

All of the characters in the opening credits who are never in the episodes gets a little bit old.

I do not believe the women other than Claire have been lying about their rapes, but the door is obviously wide open for it to have been something other than a traditional "man drugs and has intercourse with girl then shaves head."

Preview spoilers:

Who does everyone think is going to die? The dean's wife is a good guess. The only characters I would mind dying are Logan, Keith and Mac. Everyone else is fair game (yes, including Veronica, who has been more than a little annoying this season.).

Graymalkin

11-22-2006, 01:11 PM

Bud Rose. How could I not have realized that one earlier? Good one, VM writers. :up:

GDG76

11-22-2006, 01:51 PM

While I thought this episode as a whole stunk, I did like the "He's the Smithers to Budd Rose's Mr Burns" line a lot.

And the "the moose out front should have told you..." one too...

Magnolia88

11-22-2006, 01:56 PM

Bud Rose. How could I not have realized that one earlier? Good one, VM writers. :up:

Yeah, this episode had more than the usual pop-culture references.

Half of the scenes had a Hearst/Citizen Kane connection and the others were about The Big Lebowski. Or The Bionic Woman. Or Tommy. I was having a hard time keeping up! Was that a Jimmy Cagney impression?

DevdogAZ

11-22-2006, 02:42 PM

Yeah, this episode had more than the usual pop-culture references.

Half of the scenes had a Hearst/Citizen Kane connection and the others were about The Big Lebowski. Or The Bionic Woman. Or Tommy. I was having a hard time keeping up! Was that a Jimmy Cagney impression?
I'm not familiar with Jimmy Cagney so that might have been it, but I thought he was doing any impression of the alien in the cantina scene in Star Wars (Ep. 4). I can't find the character's name, but it's the guy with the upturned nose and I thought Keith's dialouge was very similar to this guy.

gilmoregirls102

11-23-2006, 02:01 AM

At least Logan is worried about Veronica... he's right, someone needs to be!

jking

11-23-2006, 06:30 AM

At least Logan is worried about Veronica... he's right, someone needs to be!

I loved Logan's "you're always trying to change me, why can't I do the same?" line. I love it when the writers allow the star of the show to be taken down a notch (except when they try to use Lana to do it ;) ).

Warren

11-23-2006, 09:24 AM

I liked the National Lampoons refrence

"sorry the parks closed. the moose outside should have told you."

I know they changed the animal but it was still funny

5thcrewman

11-23-2006, 01:06 PM

I liked the 'Kiester-egg' line, plus the corn stuck to it when it came out of the dumpster so you knew it was the right one!

lonwolf615

11-23-2006, 03:31 PM

There were so many great lines in this one I had to keep backing up and playing parts again so as not to miss any. And they were piled on top of each other. I'd still be chuckling at one line and admiring its cleverness while they had already topped it with another. Maybe my favorite:

Keith: "You might want to stop yelling at my daughter."

Logan: You might want to start."

Actually, I found myself identifying more and more with Logan. Someone referred to him "stalking" VM, but really, in his shoes, I think I might have done the same thing. I know I'm alone in this one, but again I think it is impressive how they aren't afraid to show Veronica's flaws and even imply she might be a little bit spoiled by her father, and much too used to getting her own way. The interaction between father and daughter was a highpoint of this episode for me too. Loved the playing around when they were breaking into the guest house-can't remember VM being so at ease and enjoying herself so much in a long, long time. Veronica goofing off while Keith smiles tolerantly...the interaction between them is still the heart of the show for me and I love the "us against the world" aspect of their relationship.
One more favorite line. PH says something like "do you know what its like to be the laughingstock of the whole country? And Keith gets thoughtful and replies "Well, actually..." Nice little reminder of the 1st season.
Clearly, I loved this episode. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I think the show has really hit its stride.

Robin

11-23-2006, 10:09 PM

I assume the "stalking" comment was from the dining hall scene, not the bodyguard.

The question is, what was the motivation behind his call? If it was "call her and see if she answers me" then yes, stalker. If it was "call, pretend to be somewhere else, then surprise her from behind with a kiss" then we're cool. I'm leaning towards the latter.

LoadStar

11-23-2006, 11:45 PM

DevdogAZ

11-23-2006, 11:58 PM

Well, yeah, my comment about "stalker" was regarding the final scene, yeah. And I wasn't really being literal... he hasn't really crossed the line into stalker behavior (yet). However, from the look on his face at the end, he definitely looks like he's well exceeded the bounds of a healthy concern for her safety. That was most definitely a very creepy look on his face.
I didn't see it as creepy at all. I saw it as hurt, considering that they'd just had a "breakthrough" moment in their relationship the night before, then then sat there and watched her look at her Caller ID and then duck his call. At that point, he realized that maybe everything he laid on the line to Veronica wasn't reciprocated the way he thought it was.

Rob Helmerichs

11-24-2006, 03:17 AM

I didn't see it as creepy at all. I saw it as hurt, considering that they'd just had a "breakthrough" moment in their relationship the night before, then then sat there and watched her look at her Caller ID and then duck his call. At that point, he realized that maybe everything he laid on the line to Veronica wasn't reciprocated the way he thought it was.
See, that's one huge problem I have with Logan--he's such a bad actor that his performance is almost a Rorschach test. I got the creepy vibe from him, but I've always had such a hard time figuring out what he's trying to get across that I didn't really trust my instinct, and figured I'd just wait until the writers make it explicit somewhere down the road.

That's the big problem I've always had with the Logan-Veronica relationship--unless the actual dialog makes it clear what we're supposed to think, I'm never sure.

Zevida

11-24-2006, 07:11 AM

However, from the look on his face at the end, he definitely looks like he's well exceeded the bounds of a healthy concern for her safety. That was most definitely a very creepy look on his face.

I'm more with Doug on this, I saw his look as crestfallen and heartbroken. I didn't see anything creepy there. And I've always thought he is one of the best actors on the show! Funny how people see things so different.

Maybe I'm alone in that, but I think the show has really hit its stride.

I don't know if you're alone, but I definitely disagree. I think the quality of the show has plummeted this season and I am easily bored and uninterested throughout the episodes.

Rob Helmerichs

11-24-2006, 07:48 AM

I'm more with Doug on this, I saw his look as crestfallen and heartbroken. I didn't see anything creepy there. And I've always thought he is one of the best actors on the show! Funny how people see things so different.
From what I read in these threads, I think his "gift" is that he's SUCH a crappy actor, people can just see whatever they want to see in him--and thus think he's brilliant for living up to their expectations! :D

Robin

11-25-2006, 07:47 AM

I'm more with Doug on this, I saw his look as crestfallen and heartbroken. I didn't see anything creepy there.

+1

I thought it was a pretty straightforward scene. Logan's on top of the world, things are right again with their relationship. He sees her in the dining call, calls her cell so he can do a cutesy little "look behind you!" and surprise her, but is stopped flat when she ditches his call. All of a sudden his world is shattered because they're not at all in the place he thought they were.

lonwolf615

11-25-2006, 01:59 PM

+1

I thought it was a pretty straightforward scene. Logan's on top of the world, things are right again with their relationship. He sees her in the dining call, calls her cell so he can do a cutesy little "look behind you!" and surprise her, but is stopped flat when she ditches his call. All of a sudden his world is shattered because they're not at all in the place he thought they were.

Thats the way I saw it too. And when you add in its not the first time she dodged his calls one can understand Logan being upset. Heck, I found it disturbing myself-whats up with that? Its not like VM to dodge confrontation...

cheesesteak

11-27-2006, 08:59 AM

I don't even like Logan and I hope he ditches Veronica for a normal girl. It's great that the VM writers portray her as a flawed heroine but I definitely wouldn't want to be in a relationship with her.

TAsunder

11-27-2006, 09:20 AM

What the heck... Logan is one of the better acted characters on the show. Something is wrong with you guys. Apparently you assume that anyone who acts kind of eeyore-ish is a bad actor or something. The creators are constantly bubbling over his acting and versatility, and I tend to agree. Patty Hearst was pretty bad, though.

Sirius Black

11-27-2006, 01:09 PM

I have a question about this show. I understand that it is a combination of many shows of the past that are considered "excellent" (part Buffy, part Gilmore Girls, etc). Is the show as good from day 1 as it is today? Am I likely to be turned off by the first few episodes but by the end of the first season will be salivating for season 2? I have the first 2 discs of season one in my mailbox (Netflix is good) so I want to know what I should expect (without spoilers, of course).

garys67

11-27-2006, 01:31 PM

I had never seen VM until this season, and, now hooked, decided to go back and rent season 1 from Netflix. My wife and I are now almost through the third disc (watched "Echolls Family Christmas" last night - great ep) and are both now doubly hooked. Go ahead and get them - you won't be disappointed and the backstories will make the current saeson even more enjoyable.

And wait to you see what Logan was like early on. Wow.

lonwolf615

11-27-2006, 01:36 PM

Stormspace

11-27-2006, 01:45 PM

Well, yeah, my comment about "stalker" was regarding the final scene, yeah. And I wasn't really being literal... he hasn't really crossed the line into stalker behavior (yet). However, from the look on his face at the end, he definitely looks like he's well exceeded the bounds of a healthy concern for her safety. That was most definitely a very creepy look on his face.

Admittedly, Veronica herself has definitely done some things herself that would put her squarely in stalker territory herself, but with Veronica, most of that isn't creepy - it's just a natural reaction of both her and her dad doing that sort of stuff professionally.

Veronica is a very independent woman. He's smothering her, so it's only natural that she'd want to put a little distance between them. OTOH, Logan doesn't see that and by her blowing him off like that he's just plain hurt. That wasn't a creepy look, it was a "oh my god, I've lost her" look.

lonwolf615

11-27-2006, 02:20 PM

[QUOTE=Stormspace]Veronica is a very independent woman. He's smothering her, QUOTE]

Huh? Logan taking off for Mexico, lying to her about going to class so he could go gambling...if anything, she has been smothering him, trying to make him fit her image of a boyfriend. And Logan has been the one trying to maintain his own identity. The only reason he's trying to get her to change her ways now is he's concerned for her safety. And since he's put himself in harms way at least three times saving her, his concern seems justified.
If anything his look means he realized that VM defines their relationship soley on her own terms, and thats not going to work. To Veronica, "compromise" seems to mean "do what I say".

Sirius Black

11-27-2006, 03:27 PM

First off, I wouldn't watch it thinking its a "combination" of other shows. Its an original, and although it may reference what came before it pretty much goes its own way. And if you like it now you should love how S1 plays out. S2 is uneven sometimes but when its good, its very good.

Actually, I'm not watching it now. I think L*** and Daybreak conflicted with it. I just read the threads here and see how passionate folks are about the show. I figured the first season is a good way to see if I'd like the rest.

Zevida

11-27-2006, 04:14 PM

Actually, I'm not watching it now. I think L*** and Daybreak conflicted with it. I just read the threads here and see how passionate folks are about the show. I figured the first season is a good way to see if I'd like the rest.

I think the first season is excellent, the second season is very good and the third season has been mediocre. You'll definitely find the first season worthwhile. Even my 61 year old Dad loved it :)

TAsunder

11-27-2006, 06:40 PM

I think the first season is excellent, the second season is very good and the third season has been mediocre. You'll definitely find the first season worthwhile. Even my 61 year old Dad loved it :)

I agree, except I find the third season good still. VM season 3 is still better than all but a few shows.

As for season 1, the first few episodes are up and down, but by the end of the second disc I expect most people would be hooked.

Magnolia88

11-27-2006, 07:18 PM

Actually, I'm not watching it now. I think L*** and Daybreak conflicted with it. I just read the threads here and see how passionate folks are about the show. I figured the first season is a good way to see if I'd like the rest.

Those shows don't conflict with VM, it is currently up against House on Tuesday nights.

But to repeat what everyone else has said, S1 is unbelievably good. Watch the first two discs and you should be hooked by then. If you don't like it after you have watched the first two discs of S1, it may not be the show for you. But if you're on the fence, keep going because the second half of S1 has some of the best TV I've ever seen. Seriously great.

S2 and S3 are more uneven but I still think it's one of the best shows on the air, and certainly on network television.

Sirius Black

11-27-2006, 10:12 PM

But to repeat what everyone else has said, S1 is unbelievably good. Watch the first two discs and you should be hooked by then. If you don't like it after you have watched the first two discs of S1, it may not be the show for you. But if you're on the fence, keep going because the second half of S1 has some of the best TV I've ever seen. Seriously great.

I watched the first disc tonight without a break. Very good stuff. As long as it continues like this, consider me hooked.

mrpantstm

11-29-2006, 08:53 AM

/throws in his two cents a week too late, realizing most of my comments will either be answered/invalided by the episode that just aired. Still catching up. :)

As far as the final Logan calling Veronica scene goes, while I'm not sure whether I lean towards heartbroken/stalkerish, what that scene did show me was a continuation of Logans character's loss of loved ones. Logan has lost Lily, his mother, and his father. Really, who in Logan's life would he considered a loved one? He and his sister have never been close. I'm sure he has some relatives but we've never been introduced to them. And I think him accepting friends is difficult because of his father's cult fame.

So, I can see his motivation for being overprotective of Veronica. Whether the writers will take this to being a stalker or just being a fight is up in the air. Logan's lost a lot of loved ones in his life and most of his actions can be explained by him not wanting to lose Veronica.

I liked this episode, definitely plenty of jokes. I did think Keith was a bit too laissez faire with letting Veronica help out on the case. Normally, he'd relegate her to more desk jobs but this episode he seemed to have her as his partner on the case, running down leads. After the previous weeks episode, I would have thought Keith to be more protective of Veronica. It would have been interesting if both Logan and Keith were on the same side and going up against Veronica's head strong determination.

Magnolia88

11-29-2006, 03:05 PM

I watched the first disc tonight without a break. Very good stuff. As long as it continues like this, consider me hooked.

There are a few mediocre episodes in the 7-8-9 range, but after that, it only gets better and better. Once you get to episode 16, you won't want to stop until the finale.

As far as the final Logan calling Veronica scene goes, while I'm not sure whether I lean towards heartbroken/stalkerish, what that scene did show me was a continuation of Logans character's loss of loved ones.

Yes, Logan very literally has nobody other than Veronica. It's a very sad theme of the entire series that everyone he loves abandons him or betrays him in some way. I didn't view the final scene as "stalkerish" in any way, just another example of heartbreak for Logan. He has a lot of issues, but considering what he's been through, he's an amazingly strong character, even stronger than Veronica in some ways. At least she has Keith and Wallace, but he doesn't have anyone.

TAsunder

11-29-2006, 03:08 PM

Logan has Dick. Sort of.

Magnolia88

11-29-2006, 03:15 PM

Well, there have been many scenes demonstrating that Dick is not really much of a friend at all to Logan. He's just a dude to do stuff with, nothing more. And Mercer seemed to move into that role this year also, as a surfing/drinking/gambling buddy.

Logan was kind to take Dick in when he needed a place to stay but Dick has never been very considerate of Logan in the past. So I doubt Logan would think of him as someone that could be relied upon.

mrpantstm

11-29-2006, 03:26 PM

At least she has Keith and Wallace, but he doesn't have anyone.

And it's funny, how when we are first introduced to Logan, he had plenty of friends and loved ones.

How things change...

lonwolf615

11-29-2006, 09:01 PM

Logan's aloneness has definately been a major theme this year-remember how quickly he bonded with the reporter impersonating his brother?

Jesda

11-30-2006, 06:54 AM