My Tivo HD Lite

[larrs]

As i have stated before, i love MRV. However, I also love HDTV. So, I have at this point in time (I have had more) 2 series 2 boxes- 1 in the Master BR, one in the basement, which I record all non-HD content on and a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD in my family room which we al share HD content on. I cnnot even record down-rezz'd HD on my Tivos due to the fact that Scientific Atlanta boxes "letterbox" all HD content on the coax, composite and s-video connections and the Tivos can only accept those types of inputs. Even though I hate the SA box, I have had no choice. Until now.

You see, my dsplays are very good (Panny plasmas and Sony Bravia) at upconverting SD content. In fact, with a DVD source, it is almost as good as HD (not quite, but acceptable). Last week, I happened on a thread in AVS about a downconverter that takes component HD signals and simultaneously passes the HD signal through but also downconverts the signal to s-video and composite. It is not cheap ($379), but i thought I'd give it a try if for no other reason than to be able to record widescreen movies from the HD channels on my Toshiba Tivo DVD recorder.

Long story short time: it works great. I am able to watch live HD when needed, record downrezz'd HD in full widescreen on the Tivos and- the best part- I can now MRV the widescreen images around the house. The results are so "acceptable" that we decided last night to replace the 8300HD with another Tivo (we already have in storage) so we can MRV into the family room as well.

Again, this is not a cheap solution and it is not full HD, but it is the best thing going until MRV is available on the HD tivos and the best part is that the bandwidth needed on my network is no greater than moving SD content around. i am not sure what would happen when (if) HD content can be MRV'd.

[gastrof]

For starters, you're not getting even "partial HD".

All you're getting is standard def widescreen with a pleasingly clear picture.

For another thing, if these recordings are on a standard TiVo in SD, shouldn't you be able to do the MRV thing with no problem?

By the way....
I LOVE these stories of people running a widescreen image into a Series 2 TiVo, and playing them out onto a widescreen display and getting true widescreen out of a Series 2. Keep it up!

[larrs]

For starters, you're not getting even "partial HD".

All you're getting is standard def widescreen with a pleasingly clear picture.

For another thing, if these recordings are on a standard TiVo in SD, shouldn't you be able to do the MRV thing with no problem?

By the way....
I LOVE these stories of people running a widescreen image into a Series 2 TiVo, and playing them out onto a widescreen display and getting true widescreen out of a Series 2. Keep it up!

I am aware it is 480i, but the picture quality is great for what it is.

My point exaclty is that the ease of MRV with this setup unlike how it may be if/when MRV is available for HD content. I know that the cable DVRs that have MRV cannot move HD content only SD anyway.

[jchapman]

Last week, I happened on a thread in AVS about a downconverter that takes component HD signals and simultaneously passes the HD signal through but also downconverts the signal to s-video and composite.

Can you please provide a link to the AVS thread or detail the make and model of the downconverter?

[Stu_Bee]

Currently my setup is:
Coax -> HD Comcast Motorola Box ---svideo-->S2Tivo-->HDTV

With this method, if I Tivo a HD channel (such as Lost on hidef channel), it looks nice and clear...much better than the other SD channels. However it is horizontally squished (even on my 16:9 TV). I use the Zoom feature on my Panansonic HDTV to display it in proper 16:9.

Are you saying this setup:
Coax -> HD Comcast Motorola Box ---component-->MysteryDownconverter--svideo-->S2Tivo-->HDTV

would render the HD channels in full 16:9 mode, without requiring TV zooming? Is the PQ better than my original setup?

(hope that made sense)

[gastrof]

What he's saying is that if you feed a non-letterboxed widescreen picture into a Series 2 TiVo, it'll record what it gets.

If you take a widescreen standard def image and send it to an ordinary 4x3 television, it'll fill the entire screen, but because it should be wider, everything will be squashed from left to right. The whole picture will be there, but everyone will look tall and thin.

Feed that same widescreen picture into a Series 2 TiVo, and it'll record the widescreen image feed.

Play it back into a standard 4x3 TV, you'll still see the squashed picture with people looking tall and thin, but play it into a 16x9 widescreen TV, and it'll still fill the screen...but the screen is now wider. Everyone will look like they should, and you'll have a normal widescreen image. No squashing, no stretching, no letterboxing and no black bars of any kind.

The problem with this is finding a way to feed a widescreen image into the TiVo.

Some SetTopBoxes will automatically switch to a 4x3, and letterbox a widescreen picture if you set them to output a Standard Def picture.

With this gadget being described, you leave the STB set to High Def and widescreen, and feed that signal directly into the gadget. It'll downconvert to Standard Def, but leave the picture non-letterboxed.

Feed that signal into your TiVo, and you end up recording the normal, non-letterboxed widescreen image. Feed that into a widescreen set, and you've got a widescreen picture that fills the screen.

The only "problem" is that you're only getting Standard Def, but it IS from a digital source, and it IS widescreen. The picture will look a bit better. And since a Series 2 TiVo is only a Standard Def device, that's as good as you can get with it.

[superleo]

can you tell us where you got it and the model, description.

I am very intersted, even if it is not true HD, but the ability on playing full 16:9 standard def.

[davezatz]

I am very intersted, even if it is not true HD, but the ability on playing full 16:9 standard def.

That's worth $379 to you? :eek:

[Stu_Bee]

Could be...but who knows we may find it cheaper when googling/ebaying around.

After all $379 is still $620 cheaper than buying a S3 (msrp) and transferring my existing s2 lifetime. Plus I'd still get to use PC2TV transfer features that aren't available on the s3.

'course I'd have to use the creditcard my wife doesn't know about ;)

[greg_burns]

Here is a past thread on this subject...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=291435

I used to do this with my Comcast Pace DC550P HD STB.

[gconnery]

The main benefit of this is you're watching a 14-15Mbps MPEG-2 transport stream feed rather than a 3.5-4Mbps feed. Sure its high def and widescreen so those bits are needed. But if you then downrez that feed to 480i, you've got a much better picture. So there will be fewer digital artifacts in the resulting downconverted analog stream.

[davezatz]

If you want to spend less than $379, this guy says you can use an LG box:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3862656&&#post3862656

For reference, I sold mine on ebay just this week for $160. Not only is it an HD tuner it's a progressive scan DVD player (that can also upscale - your mileage may vary). Since I got my S3, the box has been collecting dust so I unloaded it. It served me well though, even powering a projector for a time.

[superleo]

That's worth $379 to you? :eek:

I think so... specially if you have the ability in extracting and playing these shows in any dvd and in any tv wether it is HDef or not.

I also believe overall that 480 is a very respectfull resolution.

Goal is to have 16:9 with 5.1 audio playing from a regular DVD player on any TV.... I think that is well werth the $379.

[Stu_Bee]

If you want to spend less than $379, this guy says you can use an LG box:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3862656&&#post3862656


I get a little confused on this topic. Isn't the LGbox a tuner meaning it has to be tuned to the station to receive it.
What I am hoping for is a just a straight HD component->SD svideo converter, that just converts the incoming signal....rather than a channel tuner. It just sits between the ComcastHD box and Tivo. (and doesn't require TV zooming)
Or do u just leave the LG on all times and it converts without requiring channel tuning?

[TiVo Fool]

I've also been very pleased with 480 resolution when recording Comcast digital channels, and I've the coax running right into my S2.

Battlestar Galactica actually looks pretty good.

That said, if SciFi gets an HD channel launched, BG will move to my DCT6412 series list immediately!

[Stu_Bee]

I've also been very pleased with 480 resolution when recording Comcast digital channels, and I've the coax running right into my S2.
Battlestar Galactica actually looks pretty good.
That said, if SciFi gets an HD channel launched, BG will move to my DCT6412 series list immediately!

Recording the HD channels is much better/clearer than just the digital channels especially if you have a 16:9 tv.
Battlestar Galactica is one of my worst season pass recordings. The scifi channel is SD and BSG letterboxed...which means i'm zooming a crappy signal to fit my 42" 16:9 hdtv....making it muy crappy. I guess everyones in the same boat, because even torrented BSG's are crappy (unless you can get the UK satellite broadcasts).

+1 to HD Scifi channel request.

PS. Didn't BSG get bought by NBC? I'd love for them to show that on their HD channel.

[davezatz]

I get a little confused on this topic. Isn't the LGbox a tuner meaning it has to be tuned to the station to receive it.
What I am hoping for is a just a straight HD component->SD svideo converter, that just converts the incoming signal....rather than a channel tuner. It just sits between the ComcastHD box and Tivo. (and doesn't require TV zooming)
Or do u just leave the LG on all times and it converts without requiring channel tuning?

Yeah, I don't think the LG box would sit between your boxes. I used it for HD OTA (and DVDs) into the HDTV, and also had analog cable into a 140hr TiVo into the TV.

[Stu_Bee]

So I guess we'll wait for Larrs to comeback with the specs.

I did a google of avsforums and found this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8812571#post8812571

Maybe it is the one of which he speaks. The price is about right.
http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt3190.shtml

Edit: Heh...Just noticed...probably "Larrimore" is Larrs.

[gastrof]

...Didn't BSG get bought by NBC? I'd love for them to show that on their HD channel.

No. SciFi Channel's parent company got bought by NBC.

The rumors that the show would start running on the terrestrial NBC network have been squashed.

I'd heard that Galactica was to be run on NBC/Universal's high def cable/satellite channel (formerly Bravo HD).

Don't know if it's started yet.

[gastrof]

Double checked.

http://www.universalhd.com/

Galactica runs on Sunday nights, two showings. (One at 8, one at 11.)

Don't know at what point in the series they're up to. Could be current (in sync with SciFi), could be older episodes. I didn't check.

[Stu_Bee]

Unfortunately UHD isn't a channel available on Comcast CA BayArea.

[larrs]

So I guess we'll wait for Larrs to comeback with the specs.

I did a google of avsforums and found this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8812571#post8812571

Maybe it is the one of which he speaks. The price is about right.
http://www.avtoolbox.com/avt3190.shtml

Edit: Heh...Just noticed...probably "Larrimore" is Larrs.

yep- it's me. Sorry for the delay, but I've been trying to get a PS3! :)

It is the avt box that i recieved recently. I am in the middle of testing a bunch of things on it (contrast, brightness, etc.). I'll be glad to post when I can.

yesterday, however, I was talking at work about it and I have a fellow Tivo enthusiast here that is using Dishnetwork with their HD boxes (ViP 222 I think)and 3 tivos. The dishnet box does the work of the AVT internally. How lucky is that- and Battlestar Gallactica is on Universal HD channel on dish along with 25 other HD channels.

I am considering that move now. If so, my AVT will be up on E-bay.


Edit: it may take some time for me to post definitive results. i leave tomorrow morning to go out of town for the Thanksgivig holiday...

[larrs]

Using the AVT between an HD box and the Tivo also means pristine widescreen DVDs via the Toshiba/Pioneer/Humax burner.

Burn to DVD-RW, open in Nero recode and edit the start/ending points and commercials and modify the widescreen flag via IfoEdit (free). burn to DVD-R and then you have a very good anamorphic copy for all of your TVs.

[ah30k]

Goal is to have 16:9 with 5.1 audio playing from a regular DVD player on any TV.... I think that is well werth the $379.How are you getting 5.1 audio around the house?

[larrs]

What he's saying is that if you feed a non-letterboxed widescreen picture into a Series 2 TiVo, it'll record what it gets.

If you take a widescreen standard def image and send it to an ordinary 4x3 television, it'll fill the entire screen, but because it should be wider, everything will be squashed from left to right. The whole picture will be there, but everyone will look tall and thin.

Feed that same widescreen picture into a Series 2 TiVo, and it'll record the widescreen image feed.

Play it back into a standard 4x3 TV, you'll still see the squashed picture with people looking tall and thin, but play it into a 16x9 widescreen TV, and it'll still fill the screen...but the screen is now wider. Everyone will look like they should, and you'll have a normal widescreen image. No squashing, no stretching, no letterboxing and no black bars of any kind.

The problem with this is finding a way to feed a widescreen image into the TiVo.

Some SetTopBoxes will automatically switch to a 4x3, and letterbox a widescreen picture if you set them to output a Standard Def picture.

With this gadget being described, you leave the STB set to High Def and widescreen, and feed that signal directly into the gadget. It'll downconvert to Standard Def, but leave the picture non-letterboxed.

Feed that signal into your TiVo, and you end up recording the normal, non-letterboxed widescreen image. Feed that into a widescreen set, and you've got a widescreen picture that fills the screen.

The only "problem" is that you're only getting Standard Def, but it IS from a digital source, and it IS widescreen. The picture will look a bit better. And since a Series 2 TiVo is only a Standard Def device, that's as good as you can get with it.
And i might add, the AVT has a passthrough component so you can also watch live HD on the TV if you choose.

[yunlin12]

Double checked.

http://www.universalhd.com/

Galactica runs on Sunday nights, two showings. (One at 8, one at 11.)

Don't know at what point in the series they're up to. Could be current (in sync with SciFi), could be older episodes. I didn't check.

It was available for a short time in Aug-Sep before Comcast turned on MTVHD, was on channel 726 I believe. I recorded a few episodes of BSG in glorious HD, too bad, was only reruns then.

Edit: according to AVS forum, UHD just came back to Comcast in SF Bay area, channel 727.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8926875&&#post8926875

[TiVo Fool]

Unfortunately UHD isn't a channel available on Comcast CA BayArea.
Comcast added UHD to my lineup during the Olympics, but took it down after they were over (boo!).

I did record some reruns of BSG in HD while I had it, and man were they glorious!

[superleo]

How are you getting 5.1 audio around the house?

I don't mean distributing "one" signal to all tv perse, wich it might be done. I mean a DVD with the right flags to play anamorphic correct widescreen, whith out zooming or distorted images, with the enhaced audio in 5.1 with out needing true HDef and with a very respectable resolution of almost commercial dvd resolution.

[Stu_Bee]

Edit: according to AVS forum, UHD just came back to Comcast in SF Bay area, channel 727.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8926875&&#post8926875

Holy Re-appearing HD channel, Batman.

Thanks Yunlin! It's actually there !!!!!!

Ok....I feel like a Tivo dunce. I can manually get to the channel with the Tivo Remote...but in the "Channels I receive" it's not listed (that number is skipped). FYI, the channel banner says "TBD".

So is this something I have to report to Tivo?

[yunlin12]

I think Tivo custom support has a form for this, missing channel. When MTVHD was added it was missing for a while in the guide, so I assume it'll show up eventually.

Just saw the channel on my S3 also. The channel name is there NBCUD..., I think Tivo got it from cable cards. I can add it in my channel I receive list, but there's no program info available yet. Hopefully will get that soon, or I'll have to record BSG manually, Sun night 5/8pm pacific.

[Budget_HT]

I don't mean distributing "one" signal to all tv perse, wich it might be done. I mean a DVD with the right flags to play anamorphic correct widescreen, whith out zooming or distorted images, with the enhaced audio in 5.1 with out needing true HDef and with a very respectable resolution of almost commercial dvd resolution.
Unless you capture the HD video and DD5.1 audio on a computer (with an internal or external tuner) you will not get DD5.1 audio on a recorded DVD. In other words, to record the audio, you have to make an analog stereo connection from the STB (or AVT if it handles audio) to your TiVo or DVD recorder.

You DO get a Dolby ProLogic mixdown from DD 5.1 to matrix-encoded Dolby Surround, with L + R + center + mono surround channels. This is the next best thing to DD5.1, but there is a noticable difference.

All that said, I make many anamorphic recordings of widescreen HDTV programs on DVD's and the video is nearly as good as a commercial DVD. I use an external device in series with the S-video connection from my HD TiVo to my Pioneer DVD recorder to force the WSS widescreen flag to be present on the DVD recordings. The results are the same as "enhanced for widescreen" DVDs and they play back properly on 16x9 (widescreen) and 4x3 (letterbox or pan and scan, user's choice) TVs.

The device I use is Logic Design's Video Filter with WSS control. Using the Video Filter allows me to make properly flagged recordings directly on my Piioneer DVD recorder, without having to add the WSS widescreen flag using my computer.

These results are definitely not high defintion, but you do get some mighty-fine 720x480i results.

[superleo]

Unless you capture the HD video and DD5.1

I believe if that transmited signal has it this way as is transmited, the recorded, tivoed recording shold also be in this manner. In order to get it in the proper DD5.1 to the DVD compilation the source file needs to be muxed and process with the right decoders to obtain the DD5.1 sound portion.

[QUOTE=Budget_HT]All that said, I make many anamorphic recordings of widescreen HDTV programs on DVD's and the video is nearly as good as a commercial DVD. I use an external device in series with the S-video connection from my HD TiVo to my Pioneer DVD recorder to force the WSS widescreen flag to be present on the DVD recordings. The results are the same as "enhanced for widescreen" DVDs and they play back properly on 16x9 (widescreen) and 4x3 (letterbox or pan and scan, user's choice) TVs.

This is exactly what I would like to do... I like this

[TechDreamer]

I'm confused.

I have a Scientific Atlanta HD box and I record the HD channels on my Series 1. The SA box can downrez the HD and send it through the S-Video. My Series 1 is hacked for higher encoding and the picture looks great. I watch it on a standard def 36" Sony. I'm not watching true high def, but it's the best standard def can get. The only thing I don't like is that the SA box uses gray bars on the letterbox picture and I wish it was black.

Am I missing something here?

[larrs]

I'm confused.

I have a Scientific Atlanta HD box and I record the HD channels on my Series 1. The SA box can downrez the HD and send it through the S-Video. My Series 1 is hacked for higher encoding and the picture looks great. I watch it on a standard def 36" Sony. I'm not watching true high def, but it's the best standard def can get. The only thing I don't like is that the SA box uses gray bars on the letterbox picture and I wish it was black.

Am I missing something here?

With the AVT-3190, you feed HD into the box via component and simultaneously output HD via component and SD via s-video and composite in true widescreen. It does away with those bars, which are taking up about 30% of your Tv's resolution.

[Stu_Bee]

The only thing I don't like is that the SA box uses gray bars on the letterbox picture and I wish it was black.
Am I missing something here?

I can only guess you are talking about watching the content on a 4:3 TV, while the rest of us are talking about 16:9 (ie widescreen TV's). This would explain why you don't have the 'squishness' issue.