Any obvious HW reasons why S3 cannot output 1080p60?

[Saxion]

Just wondering if anyone who has looked inside the S3 has seen any HW components that we know are physically incapable of 1080p60 output.

I know there isn't any 1080p60 programming (except for video games), however if one wishes to use the "fixed output format" of the S3, then 1080p60 is the least common denominator that allows both 720p and 1080i programming to be displayed without compromise on a 1080p display. All other options involve some sort of compromise:

Selecting "720p Fixed" causes 1080i programming to be downscaled to 1280x720.

Selecting "1080i Fixed" causes 720p programming to be interlaced.

Selecting "Native output format" might be the next best choice, but relies on the display's (possibly inferior) scaler/deinterlacer, and can delay channel switching times, sometimes badly (depending on display model).
So, I'm just wondering if we know the S3 cannot be upgraded to 1080p60 output with a software upgrade. Is it even possible?

[mfogarty5]

Evidently it is a hardware limitation. See my earlier Series3 1080p thread.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=320577

[sthor]

I don't see the point. There is no 1080p content either OTA or on cable. Might as well output at your HDTV's native resolution and let the TV do any scaling if needed.

[rodalpho]

Saxion explained his point very clearly. I suggest you read it again.

[mportuesi]

If you are concerned about picture quality to the level that prompted the OP's question, you would invest the money to buy a TV set with a high-quality scalar chip, use Native, and the output format would be a non-issue.

[phototrek]

I don't see the point. There is no 1080p content either OTA or on cable. Might as well output at your HDTV's native resolution and let the TV do any scaling if needed.
The problem with that is that then you have to be pressing the Aspect button on the TV remote (or equivalent). At least my TV isn't smart enough to show HD programming "full" and SD programming "4:3 with stripes". When I have my Tivo on 1080i (which I now have, with my 1080p TV) I have none of the hassle.

I guess an option would be to use one of the high end receivers with HDMI - many of them can scale to 1080p. Then you'd get both.

[rodalpho]

My TV has a high quality scalar in the faroudja genesis, and yet I still can't use native since it doesn't accept 480i over HDMI/DVI. This is a very common issue.

[hookbill]

My TV has a high quality scalar in the faroudja genesis, and yet I still can't use native since it doesn't accept 480i over HDMI/DVI. This is a very common issue.

Wow, should have bought my Sony Wega that cost me a whole 800 bucks two years ago. CRT, no pixelation. Only 30" screen but no problem with 480i. :)

[bkdtv]

Just wondering if anyone who has looked inside the S3 has seen any HW components that we know are physically incapable of 1080p60 output.Unfortunately, the answer is yes. If you want to read more, search for posts by me (bkdtv) with Broadcom in the title.

To summarize, the Tivo Series3 design is based on the BCM7038 (2004) with the BCM7411 (2005) add-on chip for MPEG-4 and VC-1 support. Neither of these chips offers deinterlace capability for HD, and neither can deinterlace 1080i into 1080p.

I don't see the point. There is no 1080p content either OTA or on cable. Might as well output at your HDTV's native resolution and let the TV do any scaling if needed.This isn't quite correct. Much of the episodic and series programming on CBS, NBC, and HBO is 1080p24 content delivered in a 1080i60 package, much like the output from a HD-DVD player. A decent deinterlace solution (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4451563&&#post4451563) can reconstruct and output full 1080p image for every frame of this content.

My TV has a high quality scalar in the faroudja genesis, and yet I still can't use native since it doesn't accept 480i over HDMI/DVI. This is a very common issue.Virtually none of the Genesis (Faroudja) chips in consumer rear projection displays support deinterlace of 1080i. Most Faroudja implementations are limited to 480i deinterlace.

[rodalpho]

I have an LCD display, so it can't display interlaced images at all by design.

[Saxion]

To summarize, the Tivo Series3 design is based on the BCM7038 (2004) with the BCM7401 (2005) add-on chip for MPEG-4 and VC-1 support. Neither of these chips offers deinterlace capability for HD, and neither can deinterlace 1080i into 1080p.
Thanks bkdtv. That's pretty definitive.

[bkdtv]

That should say 7411, not 7401, btw. Typo.

[MichaelK]

...
This isn't quite correct. Much of the episodic and series programming on CBS, NBC, and HBO is 1080p24 content delivered in a 1080i60 package, much like the output from a HD-DVD player. A decent deinterlace solution (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4451563&&#post4451563) can reconstruct and output full 1080p image for every frame of this content.
....

i was wondering that- thanks for the info.