Lost 11/01 ***SPOILERS*** [Text View]

Figaro

11-01-2006, 09:18 PM

Awesome!!!
Hey did you read the whole thread ;)

I kind of figured that the smoke monster was a shape shifter. The important question is why is it playing with all of them like this?

Another important question is why Ecko? He was cool. Why not that usless bag of flesh Charlie. Or Evangeline "I can't act my way out of a bag" Lilly? They have figured out ways to get new hot chicks on, she is expendable.

Is next week the final episode of this batch? Damn it was so much easier to power through this on DVD.

philw1776

11-01-2006, 09:19 PM

The videotape thing w/Jack was one of those kick-to-the-chest too-cool scenes that make you jump up and down in your seat.

Don't know who to side with (and I love that they have us not knowing who to side with) - Ben or Juliette.

Maybe its me, but someone asking you to murder someone makes me just a wee bit wary, even if she is hot.

jkeegan

11-01-2006, 09:20 PM

Particularly liked hearing Locke reveal that he saw a beautiful bright light.. Time to look up that eye chart again - I assume that Eko and Locke started with different eyes?

Todd

11-01-2006, 09:21 PM

Oh, and if you get cited for a traffic violation in Hawaii, you will be killed.
Eko got a ticket as well?

Mike Farrington

11-01-2006, 09:22 PM

So was the smoke monster Eko's judge, jury, and executioner?

And when Locke saw it the first time, did he see it as light?

And WTF is with the mechanical sounds, that riddle alone is driving me up the wall.

philw1776

11-01-2006, 09:23 PM

Why not that usless bag of flesh Charlie. Or Evangeline "I can't act my way out of a bag" Lilly? ... she is expendable.

Y'know, right up until I read this I always thought I was for free speech...

jkeegan

11-01-2006, 09:24 PM

Awesome!!!Hey did you read the whole thread ;) LOL. That's exactly why I posted such a short first post! :) Even if someone else had said it was awesome while I clicked Submit, it ain't smeeking to agree with that. :)

jkeegan

11-01-2006, 09:27 PM

And WTF is with the mechanical sounds, that riddle alone is driving me up the wall.Sounds a bit like a dot-matrix printer.. (like the one in the pearl hatch)

LordKronos

11-01-2006, 09:29 PM

Yes...Bernard is all we have left. The rest died or vanished.

Very disappointed to see Eko go, as I thought him and Locke made an interesting pair. I guess his only real purpose was in redeeming Locke.

So who else could the smoke monster have pretended to be? Hurley's insane friend that tried to get him to jump off the cliff. Jack's dad. Anyone else?

What's odd is that the smoke monster would appear that it needs people alone to kill them. It initially left Eko when Locke and the others showed up. It seems to have lured Eko away from the hatch before killing him. Any opinions on why?

philw1776

11-01-2006, 09:30 PM

Smokie killed the pilot who was not alone

alltimesaresoon

11-01-2006, 09:31 PM

uh what did EKO SAY?

what i said . . .

sounded like i saw her dirt, or i saw her church

Mike Farrington

11-01-2006, 09:32 PM

Yes...Bernard is all we have left. The rest died or vanished.
But is Bernard a true tailie? He was seated with Rose, but got up to use the bathroom.

thudtrain

11-01-2006, 09:32 PM

So who else could the smoke monster have pretended to be? Hurley's insane friend that tried to get him to jump off the cliff. Jack's dad. Anyone else?

I can't remember, but was there weird smoke-monstery sounds when Shannon saw Walt before she ran after him and AL shot her?

LordKronos

11-01-2006, 09:33 PM

But is Bernard a true tailie? He was seated with Rose, but got up to use the bathroom.

Good point.

Mike Farrington

11-01-2006, 09:33 PM

Smokie killed the pilot who was not aloneI think it was some sort of monster that killed the pilot, but I'm not sure.

jkeegan

11-01-2006, 09:34 PM

So who else could the smoke monster have pretended to be? Hurley's insane friend that tried to get him to jump off the cliff. Jack's dad. Anyone else?Kate's horse! Maybe Sawyer's boar? I don't think it was the tree frog. :)
Maybe Walt?

LordKronos

11-01-2006, 09:34 PM

uh what did EKO SAY?

According to Locke, he said that they (Locke and the others) are next. Presumably, that means next to be killed/judged/whatever it was that happened to Eko.

Test

11-01-2006, 09:35 PM

Anyone get a good look at the guy in the hatch? with the patch? Familiar face

JadeWolf07

11-01-2006, 09:35 PM

So who else could the smoke monster have pretended to be? Hurley's insane friend that tried to get him to jump off the cliff. Jack's dad. Anyone else?

Maybe the horse that Kate and Sawyer both saw?

But I don't know why, that one seemed kinda pointless.

jkeegan

11-01-2006, 09:36 PM

Oh yeah, two things:

1) When he said "What did he say?" I ALMOST said out loud to my wife "You're next!" but decided not to say it. Wish I had!

2) When we heard the smoke monster, we not only heard the mechanical sound, but we also heard the roar-ish low-whine sound that we heard in the pilot - which implied to me that this was the monster that we saw knocking down trees.

LordKronos

11-01-2006, 09:40 PM

I can't remember, but was there weird smoke-monstery sounds when Shannon saw Walt before she ran after him and AL shot her?

None of the sounds that we've come to associate with the monster. There was one very subtle sound just before the gunshot, but it doesn't sound like anything particular. Almost sounded like it was just part of the "music" or mood soundtrack.

scottykempf

11-01-2006, 09:42 PM

mqpickles

11-01-2006, 09:47 PM

This was a really good episode. But I think a lot of people will agree with my husband who said, "They killed of one of the only characters I still care about."

What about the guy with the eye patch?

I think the way Eko met his end makes it look more like a purgatory-esque situation. He died after he resolved himself to how he had lived his life. (Same was kind of true of Shannon and Boone too; they came to terms with their "issues.") Of course, it looks like maybe Eko didn't resolve it the way he should have.

The Others. They had this grand plan to beat Jack down and brainwash him into thinking they were not the enemy, so he would operate on Ben? Why didn't it occur to them to act like decent people and ask for his help instead? Didn't their mamas ever say "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?

NatasNJ

11-01-2006, 09:47 PM

Episode blew. Went nowhere. Solved so little. I liked the Juliet/Ben twist but otherwise it is BORING. I am just starting to not care. They better get off their high horse and get back to the basics if they want to stop hemoraging viewers.

Only good thing is they got back with the island/mythical stuff a little tonight which is what I like the most about the show. But surely they will screw that up next week.

betts4

11-01-2006, 09:49 PM

Hey, how about Toilet Guy??? "toilet still works" I was ready for him to go. Flush him!!!

scottykempf

11-01-2006, 09:50 PM

Did anyone else think that maybe Juliette's little message to Jack is just another trick? Maybe Jack seeing the X-rays, and Ben "coming clean" to Jack are just another part of their plan.

From the preview for next week, "the best episode of the year" (pretty clever ABC, it's the last episode of the year):
Looks like Kate and Sawyer get a little skin-on-skin action!! HOMINA HOMINA!!!

NoThru22

11-01-2006, 09:50 PM

I think it was some sort of monster that killed the pilot, but I'm not sure.
*Sigh* It's the same thing. They've showed us various times it's the same thing.

betts4

11-01-2006, 09:52 PM

Did anyone else think that maybe Juliette's little message to Jack is just another trick? Maybe Jack seeing the X-rays, and Ben "coming clean" to Jack are just another part of their plan.

Yes, I was wondering about the whole thing and who is playing Jack more - Ben or Juliet?

And Bens speech about his 'spinal surgeon falling out of the sky" that made me wince. Jack, its a guilt trip!! Don't fall for it!!!!

Rob Helmerichs

11-01-2006, 09:55 PM

The Others. They had this grand plan to beat Jack down and brainwash him into thinking they were not the enemy, so he would operate on Ben? Why didn't it occur to them to act like decent people and ask for his help instead? Didn't their mamas ever say "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?
People tend to deal with other people as if other people were like them...
Hey, how about Toilet Guy??? "toilet still works" I was ready for him to go. Flush him!!!
Do you have any friends on the Hawaiian Highway Patrol?

betts4

11-01-2006, 09:58 PM

As Mqpickles said.....what about the guy with the Eyepatch? Just who is Eyepatch guy? Is HE Hanso? And how did he notice that they were watching him so quickly? Because he is watching them????

mqpickles

11-01-2006, 10:09 PM

People tend to deal with other people as if other people were like them... So, their mamas didn't teach them that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

;)

mqpickles

11-01-2006, 10:11 PM

Yes, I was wondering about the whole thing and who is playing Jack more - Ben or Juliet?Or might they be working together after all? Good cop, bad cop.

Oh, and I liked that Ben said "Didn't you notice how much Juliet looks like your ex-wife?" I couldnt' help saying, "A lot of other people noticed."

mqpickles

11-01-2006, 10:13 PM

As Mqpickles said.....what about the guy with the Eyepatch? Just who is Eyepatch guy? Is HE Hanso? And how did he notice that they were watching him so quickly? Because he is watching them????It was spooky how it seemed like he was seeing them from inside the tv screen. (Not saying he did see them from inside the tv, just that it kind of looked that way.)

Rob Helmerichs

11-01-2006, 10:19 PM

So, their mamas didn't teach them that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

;)
No, their mamas taught them that. They just didn't trust their mamas. :D

LordKronos

11-01-2006, 10:22 PM

And how did he notice that they were watching him so quickly? Because he is watching them????

Some cameras have a red light when they are recording. Thats a possibility, but I don't think that's it.

Figaro

11-01-2006, 10:23 PM

vertigo235

11-01-2006, 10:26 PM

Boone

Test

11-01-2006, 10:36 PM

Figaro

11-01-2006, 10:39 PM

ekos brother?
I left that out due to it being pretty much explained this episode.

Boone? That could have just been from some good Locke made drugs.

cheesesteak

11-01-2006, 10:42 PM

Charlie's worthless, off key singing ass still gets to stalk Claire while Eko gets killed off? 5-0 don't mess around!

Only three interesting characters left: Locke, Sayid & Hurley.

wprager

11-01-2006, 10:44 PM

The flight attendant went missing, Bernard is still alive.. Are those the only two? Can't remember - too overwhelmed by the episode.

Let's just hope that she took a taxi home -- that way she still has a chance, since we never saw her getting killed.

hefe

11-01-2006, 10:45 PM

And WTF is with the mechanical sounds, that riddle alone is driving me up the wall.
It's that same roller coaster chain sound that we heard when Locke was being dragged toward the hole in the ground at the end of season 1.

wprager

11-01-2006, 10:49 PM

So this should put to rest those wondering how the smoke monster could have gotten the pilot way up in the tree. And, assuming that the smoke "morphed" into Yemi this explains all of the hallucinations we've seen.

Now, anyone else think that Eko was killed because he didn't repent? I'm not saying he was wrong in what he said, but it really looked like his "brother" was very upset with him for saying that he wasn't sorry.

The "you're next" comment must have been about the judgement part, not the getting killed part.

I know it's only been a couple of weeks, but I'm starting to really get annoyed with the new characters. Other than filling out a pre-approved budget, is there really any need for them?

drew2k

11-01-2006, 10:55 PM

<bobby brady> Mom always said, don't drink and drive in Hawaii! </bobby brady>

drew2k

11-01-2006, 10:56 PM

Mmmmkay. So Eko dies, but we get Tweedle Dee ("The toilet still works") and Tweedle Dum.
Tweedle Dum: "He said station-s. So maybe we can use these other monitors. "
Locke: (in the voice of those animated Guiness guys)"BRILLIANT!!!"I like how they're trying to give them some back story: "You're always whining about not being included, now here's your chance!" Yup. That'll convince me you've been there for two seasons of Lost ...

drew2k

11-01-2006, 10:59 PM

The Others. They had this grand plan to beat Jack down and brainwash him into thinking they were not the enemy, so he would operate on Ben? Why didn't it occur to them to act like decent people and ask for his help instead? Didn't their mamas ever say "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"?If this grand plan was true, it would explain why The Others made Michael bring Jack back, but we still don't know why they wanted Kate and Sawyer.

betts4

11-01-2006, 11:00 PM

The sound the monster makes is that of a NYC cab printer. They have said that is what the sound is.

Things that the smoke monster has been?

Possibly:
Jacks Dad
Kate's horse
Sawyer's Bore
wet walt
voices
polar bear
vincent
Dave
Hurley Bird
Others circle of torches

Any other possibilities?

Wet Walt? Sounds like a Porn movie. Hurleys bird sounds like a sequel. Oh wait, we got Sawyers Boar in there too. No, I don't think we should match the smoke monster up with the hallaucinations they have had. And we know where the Polar Bear and the Horse came from.....the Zoo hatch.

drew2k

11-01-2006, 11:00 PM

Why did Ben invite Jack to Colleen's funeral? To show they are civilized and respect their dead? I see they took back Jack's clean loaner shirt, so they're not THAT civilized ...

jkeegan

11-01-2006, 11:23 PM

Did anyone else think that maybe Juliette's little message to Jack is just another trick? Maybe Jack seeing the X-rays, and Ben "coming clean" to Jack are just another part of their plan....except we saw Ben whisper to Juliette "Why'd you show him my x-rays?", presumably out of Jack's earshot.

jkeegan

11-01-2006, 11:25 PM

<bobby brady> Mom always said, don't drink and drive in Hawaii! </bobby brady>I like how they're trying to give them some back story: "You're always whining about not being included, now here's your chance!" Yup. That'll convince me you've been there for two seasons of Lost ...See, I'd combine those two.. the brady bunch part and the brand new characters we're supposed to accept part..

..Cousin Oliver!

Figaro

11-01-2006, 11:25 PM

No, I don't think we should match the smoke monster up with the hallaucinations they have had. And we know where the Polar Bear and the Horse came from.....the Zoo hatch.

No we don't know that for sure.

Delta13

11-01-2006, 11:52 PM

Now, this was a real Lost episode! Mixing up the stories, instead of focusing only on one group at a time. And dear Lord, could it be?

Honestly?

Losties actually ... TALKING to each other? As I live and breathe!

Topics shared were Eko's brother, the small plane crash, the Pearl hatch, the computers in the hatch, what happened to the Swan station. Even had Locke telling Desmond to tell Sayid what he knew.

I agree with what several others have already said - I believe the smoke monster is responsible for many if not all of the hallucinations. Yemi's response to Eko after his confession gave it away. "You speak to me like I am your brother."

Ben used a funny term I had never heard before, when "confessing" to Jack about trying to break him. He said his plan had been "shot to sunshine". Okay. Who else thinks that Ben's confession is simply part of the breaking down of Jack?

And bad news folks - Bernard may as well be dead. 5 episodes in and not one peep so far. I think we're plumb out of tailies. :o

atrac

11-02-2006, 12:07 AM

I was genuinely moved by the way they handled Eko's death. The shot of his younger self and his brother walking away together....whew...some tears flowed. I am sad to see this character go because I always thought he was pretty cool.

The two new people...toliet guy and smart lady figuring out the tv's...every time I see them I think "oh wow, these people won some kind of 'Lost' contest and this is their walk-on role prize." In other words, no screen presence.

KungFuCow

11-02-2006, 12:11 AM

Can't believe I hadn't thought of this earlier, but from this episode it pretty much seems that the smoke monster is morphing into human form (i.e. Eko's brother, among others), and leading the survivors around the island, which I guess makes sense for all the 'hallucinations'.

Oh, and if you get cited for a traffic violation in Hawaii, you will be killed.

I called this one almost 2 months ago :)

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=314773

jkeegan

11-02-2006, 12:19 AM

Some things (some of which I saw a partial rewatch):

* They briefly foreshadowed Eko's death, by having Hurley tell sleeping Eko "Stay alive dude.. okay?"

* The hut Eko was in burned.. something caused that fire.. so that rules Yemmi(sp) out as a hallucination.. and if he was the smoke monster, the smoke monster is able to operate a lighter (or form a lighter AND cause fire).

* There were a few reused scenes in Eko's flashbacks that made me sing the Simpsons song "sorry for the clip show......". Felt a bit tacked on to handle any new audience members.

* Loved the acting on Ben's actor's part reacting to Jack's statements

* I think I noticed about 19 others at the funeral (20 if you count the dead chick).. (not significant, just for reference)

* Ok, so Desmond tells Locke that he thinks he's pretty sure the computer wasn't just for pressing the button, but that you could communicate with them too.. Locke acted like this was new info (he told Desmond to tell Sayid "what you just told me").. But Locke and Eko spliced in a segment of the orientation video that specifically said not to try to use the computer to try to communicate, as that could lead to another "incident".. Locke shouldn't have been surprised, and/or he shouldn't have considered this new info.

* "Don't mistake coincidence for fate." :)

* Never heard someone say something got "shot to sunshine".. Shot to hell, sure, but sunshine? Has anyone else heard this phrase (maybe it's regional?). Just seemed weird.. (especially in an episode where Locke said he saw a bright light).. (The line, btw, is when Ben says that their plan got shot to sunshine when Jack saw the x-ray). Probably nothing - just never heard the phrase.

* I wonder if he did find out about his spinal problem 2 days before the crash, or if that was just a line for Jack? I'm inclined to think the former.. Yet another interesting coincide- er, fate.

* I liked that when Locke had a knife to his throat, he didn't say "Why are you so mad?", but instead said "What are you so afraid of, Eko?". Thought we'd see a bit more about that though.

1/2 way through rewatch - might as well end the post here to catch up on posts that happened while typing this, lest I - well - you know.

jkeegan

11-02-2006, 12:24 AM

Ben used a funny term I had never heard before, when "confessing" to Jack about trying to break him. He said his plan had been "shot to sunshine".Agh! That was posted while I typed my reply, after being completely caught up.. No way that counts as smeeking. :)

Glad I'm not the only one that thought it was weird.

Delta13

11-02-2006, 12:32 AM

:D :D :D

Gotcha, Jeff!

JYoung

11-02-2006, 12:40 AM

:eek: :eek: :eek:
Oh My God! They Killed Eko!!!!
You Bastards!

Now, anyone else think that Eko was killed because he didn't repent? I'm not saying he was wrong in what he said, but it really looked like his "brother" was very upset with him for saying that he wasn't sorry.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that had he repented or asked for forgiveness, Rover (the black smoke) would not have attacked.

Now is this part of the reason why Number 1 (Ben) and company are concerned with who's good and who's not?

Hope this isn't the last we see of Eko.

jkeegan

11-02-2006, 01:10 AM

Ok, some more:

* Smoke monster or not, why is Yemmi's body gone?

* Called the repeat of the line "You don't know who I am". :)
(except, of course, no contractions.. Just like Data.)

* Who else, when they heard Juliette say "I'm sorry for bringing you here" wondered for a second which she meant by that - across the island - or to the island? (Just for a second)

* Man.. Go back and pause it on the "Ignore everything I'm saying" posterboard.. Just looking at that still alone just gave me shivers.. Such a good scene.

* I really like the fact that at the end of her tape, she gets a bit of automatic control over Jack.. She says "Now tell me to turn the movie off", and he does it.. (He really has no choice - he has to say that).. Almost like pushing the button for the first time, he's now started "playing her game" - he went along with part of what she told him to say.. And it's a bit of a barometer for her to guage where he's at.. (I suppose he did have some choice - he could have screamed up to the camera "BEN! SHE'S TRYING TO KILL YOU! TAKE ME TO THAT RED SOX GAME!").. Very cool.. The whole scene with the video tape is my favorite part of this episode by far - probably my favorite thing in the past 3-4 episodes..

* "You owe Yemmi a church" - good reason for why he was building one w/Charlie.. Glad they wrapped that up.

* When I saw the area that Eko walked out onto before saying he didn't ask for forgiveness, I said out loud how beautiful that place was.. The hills behind it look like ones on Kauai, but I'm pretty sure I heard it was all filmed on another island (Oahu?).

* Eko's whole speech - about how he asks for no forgiveness, and that he didn't ask for the life that he was given - but it was given nonetheless - and that with it he did his best.. Some of my favorite Eko dialog of the entire series.

It's gonna be a long week.. (and then a longer 2-3 months, I'm sure..)

jkeegan

11-02-2006, 01:21 AM

By the way, here's the part of Kauai that I thought looks like the Eko-does-not-want-redemption scene tonight:

http://www.keegan.org/jeff/homemovies/05_11_2001/thumbs-640/DSC00089.JPG (http://www.keegan.org/jeff/homemovies/05_11_2001/DSC00089.JPG)

jkeegan

11-02-2006, 01:35 AM

spikedavis

11-02-2006, 01:38 AM

This entire episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know AAA was a big pain in the ass on set and asked to be let go of his contract, but I didn't like the way he was hastily written out of the show. This was the first episode this season that he was active-if you don't count his polar bear rescue 2 weeks ago. If they were going to let him go, why not have him killed off in the season finale in the hatch, and have us wait all summer to see if he lived, if only to have him killed not soon after. There is only 1 episode left in the "mini-season" and I feel as if this has been completely sqaundered. I'm sure the cliffhanger next week is going to be great-but we'll wait 4 months for the next episode and I'm sure it won't even be addressed when it comes back.

The scene with Juliette and the cue cards on the other hand-was great.

laststarfighter

11-02-2006, 01:38 AM

LOST IS BACK, BABY!

(Note to cast members: obey all traffic laws while in Hawaii. :p )

Roadblock

11-02-2006, 02:05 AM

Vito the TiVo

11-02-2006, 03:22 AM

I was genuinely moved by the way they handled Eko's death. The shot of his younger self and his brother walking away together....whew...some tears flowed.

My fiancee and I realized that Eko died very differently than anyone else on the island has. The producers have clearly made his death stand out from the others with this scene. A moment as if he is "moving on" if you want to buy into the purgatory stuff thats been discounted.

Every other death on the island, the people simply died. Dead. Boone, Shannon, AL, Libby. They all just died.

But they were all shot by other people or were accidents, Eko is the first person killed by the island. There is a significance here. Maybe the pilot was reunited with his pet goldfish or something and we just didn't see it, but Eko is the only one of our characters that was killed by the island itself. It means something and its a different kind of death. Something else happened in that moment.

Vito the TiVo

11-02-2006, 03:28 AM

And Ben dying has to look like an accident to who? Just the other Others that support him? Or somebody else or something more?

And is it just me or is this new guy Paolo surprisingly distant and bored with the goings on.

"Why do you want to go on an expedition?"
"Sweet, a bathroom."
"There's your computers. Yawn."

And he doesn't even seem particularly surprised when Pirate Col. Tigh shows up on the Parrot hatch monitor.

Vito the TiVo

11-02-2006, 03:30 AM

From another writer:

Who is the one-eyed man? Did we find his eye in the Arrow hatch inside a bible with the missing Orientation film clip?

- I completely forgot about that.

But Bernard is the only one left who's been to the Arrow hatch that could tell them about the One eyed man in the Parrot hatch.

DCIFRTHS

11-02-2006, 03:45 AM

Mmmmkay. So Eko dies, but we get Tweedle Dee ("The toilet still works") and Tweedle Dum.
Tweedle Dum: "He said station-s. So maybe we can use these other monitors. "
Locke: (in the voice of those animated Guiness guys)"BRILLIANT!!!"

This was the weakest part of the show - and I mean from the day the Pilot aired. Pathetic scene...and acting. Now we have Boobs, and her stupid sidekick to look forward to.

What a waste killing off Eko.

DCIFRTHS

11-02-2006, 03:53 AM

This was a really good episode. But I think a lot of people will agree with my husband who said, "They killed of one of the only characters I still care about."

While I do like other characters on the show, Eko was one of the best. I really think they goofed by deciding to off him. I will admit that they did an awesome job of offing him though.

I think the way Eko met his end makes it look more like a purgatory-esque situation. He died after he resolved himself to how he had lived his life. (Same was kind of true of Shannon and Boone too; they came to terms with their "issues.") Of course, it looks like maybe Eko didn't resolve it the way he should have.

I agree, and although it's not the most creative ending to the whole LOST story, I wouldn't have a problem with it because the ride is fun :)

DCIFRTHS

11-02-2006, 04:07 AM

Now, anyone else think that Eko was killed because he didn't repent? I'm not saying he was wrong in what he said, but it really looked like his "brother" was very upset with him for saying that he wasn't sorry.

Yes. I do.

The "you're next" comment must have been about the judgement part, not the getting killed part.

I thought / think the same thing.

I know it's only been a couple of weeks, but I'm starting to really get annoyed with the new characters. Other than filling out a pre-approved budget, is there really any need for them?

The new guy has annoyed me from first sight. He belongs on an episode of Friends, not on LOST. I think Boobs is there as a weak attempt to replace the next female they kill off (Kate or Claire?).

DCIFRTHS

11-02-2006, 04:13 AM

... The two new people...toliet guy and smart lady figuring out the tv's...every time I see them I think "oh wow, these people won some kind of 'Lost' contest and this is their walk-on role prize."

Now that was funny :D :D :D

balboa dave

11-02-2006, 04:15 AM

My fiancee and I realized that Eko died very differently than anyone else on the island has. The producers have clearly made his death stand out from the others with this scene. A moment as if he is "moving on" if you want to buy into the purgatory stuff thats been discounted.

Every other death on the island, the people simply died. Dead. Boone, Shannon, AL, Libby. They all just died.

But they were all shot by other people or were accidents, Eko is the first person killed by the island. There is a significance here. Maybe the pilot was reunited with his pet goldfish or something and we just didn't see it, but Eko is the only one of our characters that was killed by the island itself. It means something and its a different kind of death. Something else happened in that moment.Got to disagree. We watched the pilot being ripped from the cockpit by what we now have seen as the shape shifting smoke monster, exactly like Eko. I don't know if the SSSM is the island, whatever that really means, but they died the same way.

DCIFRTHS

11-02-2006, 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by spikedavis

This entire episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know AAA was a big pain in the ass on set and asked to be let go of his contract, but I didn't like the way he was hastily written out of the show.

I didn't know that he wanted out of the show. Do you know why he wanted out? Knowing that makes me feel better because I think killing him was a mistake, but at least it let's the writers/producers off the hook- kind of...

As for the way the did it, I thought it was really well done.

Vito the TiVo

11-02-2006, 05:01 AM

Got to disagree. We watched the pilot being ripped from the cockpit by what we now have seen as the shape shifting smoke monster, exactly like Eko. I don't know if the SSSM is the island, whatever that really means, but they died the same way.

You can disagree with the island/meaning something part. But it is fact that the editing in of a flashback with sentimental music was a different portrayal of death than we have seen with any other character to date.

Jeeters

11-02-2006, 05:28 AM

Some cameras have a red light when they are recording. Thats a possibility, but I don't think that's it.The camera was panning to its right to capture the room. He probably noticed it suddenly moving.

Jeeters

11-02-2006, 05:30 AM

I think it was some sort of monster that killed the pilot, but I'm not sure.It was the same thing. Last night we saw the monster's modus operandi that it used to kill the pilot.

Jeeters

11-02-2006, 05:31 AM

Anyone get a good look at the guy in the hatch? with the patch? Familiar faceUntil we get a name, I think we should call him "Tigh". :D

madscientist

11-02-2006, 06:19 AM

...except we saw Ben whisper to Juliette "Why'd you show him my x-rays?", presumably out of Jack's earshot.The key word being presumably. I really got the feeling the whole thing was and is a setup.

balboa dave

11-02-2006, 06:23 AM

You can disagree with the island/meaning something part. But it is fact that the editing in of a flashback with sentimental music was a different portrayal of death than we have seen with any other character to date.

I was disagreeing with Eko is the first person killed by the island... but Eko is the only one of our characters that was killed by the island itself..That simply isn't true. I do agree that the psychology of this death may have been different, but I can't help but be reminded of the Bridgekeeper in Monty Python's Holy Grail. "What ... is your favorite color?" "Blue, no yel...."

mask2343

11-02-2006, 06:34 AM

The fact that they showed the scene of Ben talking to Juliette shows that there IS a rift between them. I don't think the whole Juliette video is something that Ben is in on. What we will find out now is WHO is the "bad guy". Is Juliette the noble one? Or is Ben really a "good guy"?

My theory is that Juliette will turn out to be the "bad guy". She set Ben up by showing Jack the x-rays. But the biggest clue of all is something Sawyer said to Kate after he started the fight. "She would have killed you." He obviously saw something in her that was different from the other Others.

What her motives are, I HAVE NO CLUE.

My biggest confusion now is: What is the relationship between the Others and the Smoke Monster? Are these two separate story lines that exist on the same island coincidentally? Or do the Others know or control this monster?

balboa dave

11-02-2006, 06:40 AM

Anyone get a good look at the guy in the hatch? with the patch? Familiar faceMy first impression was that it was Ron Perlman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000579/), but upon re-watching, I'm not all that sure. Definitely Perlman-esque.

danplaysbass

11-02-2006, 06:50 AM

This whole thing reminds me of Michael Crichton's book Prey. There was a swarm of nanobots (think hive mind) that could organize into shapes...or people.

danplaysbass

11-02-2006, 06:54 AM

I think Juliete is the big schemer here. I just can't buy what she is saying. I think there is a rift between her and Ben and she wants the power.

Maybe I missed something but it seemed like the return of Sayid was pretty sudden with no mention of Sun or Jin and no questions like "Hey Sayid, where is that nice sailboat you left with?"

I think "boobs" is kinda hot...not a terrible addition but her friend is an idiot.

Big_Daddy

11-02-2006, 07:02 AM

Great episode. I was really sorry to see Eko go - I felt his character had the potential for a lot of growth. Story-wise, I wonder about JYoung's point....had he asked for redemption, would he have been spared?

Although clearly this is the best look we've gotten of the smoke monster, and the sounds clearly implicate it in the pilot's death, I'm not so positive it's taking human/animal form the way others have assumed. We've never seen the smoke "coalesce" into something else. We also always hear the machine noises when the smoke is around - and have not heard those noises when the other-people-who-shouldn't-be-there are around (like Eko's brother, Jack's dad, wet walt, etc).

It's quite possible the smoke monster and whatever is imitating other people are one in the same. It's also possible they're separate entities - although from tonight's episode they're working together.

scottykempf

11-02-2006, 07:03 AM

Eh, just went back and saw at the end of the credits:

Filmed entirely on location on Oahu, Hawaii

Didn't spend much/any time on Oahu.. (one week on Kauai, one on the big island, and one on Maui). I'll bet Oahu's even more popular now because of the show..

No, that part was in the Kaaawa Valley on the Eastern side of Oahu, here:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h230/scottykempf/Kaaawa.jpg

Fool Me Twice

11-02-2006, 07:10 AM

:down: New characters. Sore thumbs.

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 07:11 AM

Fool Me Twice

11-02-2006, 07:13 AM

Eyepatch:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=486
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x05-cost/3/normal_costoflivingcap486.jpg http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x05-cost/3/normal_costoflivingcap487.jpg http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x05-cost/3/normal_costoflivingcap488.jpg

Fool Me Twice

11-02-2006, 07:15 AM

This tree was cool:
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?album=1191&pos=574
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x05-cost/3/normal_costoflivingcap575.jpg

TiMo Tim

11-02-2006, 07:17 AM

If this grand plan was true, it would explain why The Others made Michael bring Jack back, but we still don't know why they wanted Kate and Sawyer.

Maybe as leverage to keep Jack in line? (Due to history of the whole Kate/Jack thing) And ditto for Sawyer-- to keep Kate in line?

TiMo Tim

11-02-2006, 07:19 AM

See, I'd combine those two.. the brady bunch part and the brand new characters we're supposed to accept part..

..Cousin Oliver!

I've heard they're gonna have a new Darren next week.

(oops-- should I have spoilerized that?)

vertigo235

11-02-2006, 07:22 AM

Jack will not kill Ben, he's too much of a boyscout when it comes to the whole surgery thing.

I mean he took an Oath you know. :)

stevieleej

11-02-2006, 07:29 AM

Now, anyone else think that Eko was killed because he didn't repent? I'm not saying he was wrong in what he said, but it really looked like his "brother" was very upset with him for saying that he wasn't sorry.

The "you're next" comment must have been about the judgement part, not the getting killed part.

After Eko died, I began to feel cheated. It seemed like his whole island existence and back story were a waste but this quote helps with his story. 'Eko was killed because he didn't repent'.

Not too sure if this would apply to all of the losties. Is it safe to say that each character must have an repenting experience or face being beating against the trees?

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 07:30 AM

Jack will not kill Ben, he's too much of a boyscout when it comes to the whole surgery thing.

I mean he took an Oath you know. :)

I agree. Unless they really show Jack something to convince him that killing Ben will not only improve his, but also his friends and the other castaways situation I can't see him doing it. Jack would need a VERY good reason to kill someone, especially under the guise of helping them.

Taking the word of someone you don't really trust to kill someone else you don't trust doesn't cut it for Jack.

bqmeister

11-02-2006, 07:30 AM

In a way, I'll be happy when this mini season is over.
Cause when lost comes back in February, my HDTV will be setup!

Amnesia

11-02-2006, 07:33 AM

Maybe as leverage to keep Jack in line?If that was the case, then they would have let Jack see Kate locked in the cage...

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 07:40 AM

This tree was cool:

Yes, it definitely was. I was POSITIVE it was the smoke monster, and that it was going to reach down and grab him.

Fool Me Twice

11-02-2006, 07:44 AM

The Others have pagan funerals, apparently. Cheesy neo-pagan funerals. Their funeral rites don't support the theory that they are descended from the four-toed statue culture--unless they were converted by Dharma hippies.

Lee L

11-02-2006, 07:55 AM

I thought at least the raft and fire seemed pretty much like a Viking funeral to me.

I also keep thinking that the whole thing with Ben and Juliet is a long con. I am not sure how it will end, but they have spent too much time introducing us to the parts fo a long con through Sawyer and much of the show has dealt with how various characters' perception of reality clouds things and can allow them to be manipulated. It just seems like too much for the whole thing not to turn out to be some form of manipulation of Jack.

NatasNJ

11-02-2006, 07:58 AM

mask2343

11-02-2006, 07:59 AM

Why wouldn't they be working together?
Power.

danplaysbass

11-02-2006, 07:59 AM

I missed about five minutes because the power flickered and my receiver took a little bit to reboot. It went off as Juliette was coming in to see Jack carrying a covered dish, like something you would get from room service at a fancy hotel. I came back to see Eko, Locke, et al tromping through the forest toward the plane. The next time I saw Jack, he was asking Juliette “what’s wrong, you don’t trust me anymore?”

What did I miss?

She gave jack a cheeseburger with all the fixins. They were chatting then Benry came in and asked he to leave. He then tells jack that his ultimate plan was botched when Jack figured out that he had a spinal tumor.

..asked jack if he believed in God, jack asks "do you?"....he replies along the lines of "2 days after I found out I had a spinal tumor a spinal surgeon drops out of the sky."

GDG76

11-02-2006, 07:59 AM

There is no way Jack will botch the surgery on purpose. If so, it is a radical departure from his character. I could see him refusing to do it altogether but even that is unlikely.

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 08:01 AM

I missed about five minutes....It went off as Juliette was coming in to see Jack carrying a covered dish...I came back to see Eko, Locke, et al tromping through the forest toward the plane.

Juliette brought Jack a hamburger. He said "you people have hamburgers?" and she said something about killing the cow, baking the bun, etc by herself. Jack jokingly said "what, no ketchup?". It was pretty clear she was getting really buddy-buddy with jack. He was really starting to take to her, and they were really comfortable together.

Ben came in and said he wanted to speak to jack. Juliette said "ok" and just sat there. Ben said "alone". Jack said something like "no, she can stay". Ben said something about doctor patient confidentiality and Juliette left.

Ben said their plan to break Jack was ruined when he saw the xrays. The plan was to get him convinced they WERE the good guys, and to get him "invested" in the group to where he'd want to help. Then he'd WANT to do the surgery on Ben. He said something about didn't he notice that Juliette had a striking resemblence to his ex-wife...thats why she was chosen to be the one to break him.

The next time Juliette came in (when you saw) she was on the other side of the glass, whereas like I had mentioned, she had gotten buddy buddy with him and was comfortable coming into the room with him. Since she was on the other side, she must not trust him now...thinking Jack might hurt her now that he knows she was part of breaking him. Thats the reason for jacks comment “what’s wrong, you don’t trust me anymore?”

As for Eko and Locke, I don't think you missed anything there.

Edit: danplaysbass...thanks, I forgot about the part with the belief in god and spinal surgeon dropping out of the sky.

P.S. About your power loss....thats why I have my TiVo and cable box on a battery backup. If the power goes out, they can record for hours. My cable modem and VOIP adapter are also on battery backup so I can maintain phone service. They aren't expensive...You can find them under $50 on sale, especially with day-after-thanksgiving sales coming up in a few weeks.

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 08:04 AM

Did we really learn anything new this episode?

:eek: I don't even know how to begin to address that.

Fool Me Twice

11-02-2006, 08:06 AM

Alfer

11-02-2006, 08:12 AM

Patch dude looks like John Malkovich in the above pics....

11-02-2006, 08:14 AM

I think the whole Juliet/Ben is a test for Jack. Juliet is trying to get Jack to agree to kill Ben. If he does they won't let him perform the surgery. So they can be covering their bases now to see if he would be willing to "make" a mistake. Why wouldn't they be working together?

Have to agree. Everything with the Others seems to involve some type of psychological test to see how the subject, in this case Jack, reacts. I refer back to my oh so briliant ;) hypothesis from a few episodes back: Ben Lyons = Been Lyin', Us.

I don't even think it was a coincidence that the x-ray was left up for Jack to see. I'm also not convinced that the x-ray is even for real. Surprised nobody's mentioned this, but haven't we already learned that the Island cures illnesses such as cancer? Rose anyone? Locke? Unless Ben is immune to the effects of the island having lived there his entire life, it seems to me that even if he did get cancer, he needn't fear it for very long. As the only doctor amongst the others is a fertility doctor, it stands to reason that they haven't had to deal with too much disease, which would support the argument that the Others do benefit from the Island's apparent healing powers.

If I'm wrong, and Ben does have cancer, can we surmise that this is the news that caused Julia to cry at the begining of the season premier? He had only learned about it two days earlier.

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 08:15 AM

She gave jack a cheeseburger with all the fixins. They were chatting then Benry came in and asked he to leave. He then tells jack that his ultimate plan was botched when Jack figured out that he had a spinal tumor.

..asked jack if he believed in God, jack asks "do you?"....he replies along the lines of "2 days after I found out I had a spinal tumor a spinal surgeon drops out of the sky."

Thanks!

mikieminnow

11-02-2006, 08:25 AM

Rob Helmerichs

11-02-2006, 08:25 AM

:eek: I don't even know how to begin to address that.
Yeah, by this point I've decided that the people who keep complaining about not learning anything have a radically different idea of what "anything" means, at least in the context of a television show.

But that's cool. Different strokes for different folks. If every show appealed to everybody, they'd be so bland and boring they wouldn't appeal to anybody.

mikieminnow

11-02-2006, 08:27 AM

Patch dude looks like John Malkovich in the above pics....

Sorry for the smeek... :(

drew2k

11-02-2006, 08:28 AM

If I'm wrong, and Ben does have cancer, can we surmise that this is the news that caused Julia to cry at the begining of the season premier? He had only learned about it two days earlier.And that seems to be why Ben stopped going to book club, only the others didn't seem to know why. Maybe only Juliet knew the real reason, hence her tears?

Could it be that Juliet is actually in love with Ben, and as others posited, she is just testing Jack to ensure he will not kill Ben on the OR table?

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 08:29 AM

I'm starting to think Juliette is the real leader around there. I mean, I think Ben actually reports to her, not the other way around.

drew2k

11-02-2006, 08:30 AM

I also keep thinking that the whole thing with Ben and Juliet is a long con. I am not sure how it will end, but they have spent too much time introducing us to the parts fo a long con through Sawyer and much of the show has dealt with how various characters' perception of reality clouds things and can allow them to be manipulated. It just seems like too much for the whole thing not to turn out to be some form of manipulation of Jack.I agree with this. I now think Juliet is testing Jack, and by playing usurper and feeding him a cheeseburger, she has already gotten him to follow simple instruction (end the video now), which is a step or two away from fully trusting her. Ben said that was the plan all along - to get Jack to trust him - so what difference is it if Jack instead trusts Juliet, who tells Jack what to do based on outside discussions with Ben?

drew2k

11-02-2006, 08:32 AM

* The hut Eko was in burned.. something caused that fire.. so that rules Yemmi(sp) out as a hallucination.. and if he was the smoke monster, the smoke monster is able to operate a lighter (or form a lighter AND cause fire).Or the smoke monster just directly ignited the hut ... no reason for an all powerful smoke monster to actually form a cigarette lighter first! ;)

NatasNJ

11-02-2006, 08:32 AM

We know that there is tension between Juliet and Ben. We know that Juliet resents his overbearing rule. I think she really does want to kill him, but she doesn't have the power for an outright coup (or she doesn't want to splinter the group). However, if Ben were to conveniently die, she would take power as next in the line of succession.

WE know? Ummm. Not really. There power struggle can and PROBABLY is just part of their con on Jack. They act like their is this power struggle and how she wants to overthrow Ben, then Ben comes in and gives Jack an ego boost by saying we had this plan to break you but time is running short, then Juliet comes and asks the question if he will make a mistake. All part of the con if you ask me.

Could their be internal descent in the Others? sure. But NOTHING I have seen yet suggests that everything they have done isn't planned and well thought out.

Fool Me Twice

11-02-2006, 08:36 AM

Lost action figures? Yup.
http://www.spawn.com/toys/series.aspx?series=318

The coolest:
http://spawn.com/news/sdcc06_lost_photo_06_dp.html (Slide show.)
http://spawn.com/news/images/sdcc06_lost_photo_06_dp.jpg

Barmat

11-02-2006, 08:39 AM

The guy with the patch looks like Captain Feathersword. They did fly from Austrailia right.

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 08:41 AM

The Kate doll looks nothing like her, but the rest are pretty good.

mask2343

11-02-2006, 08:41 AM

Could their be internal descent in the Others? sure. But NOTHING I have seen yet suggests that everything they have done isn't planned and well thought out.
Not even the scene when Ben questions Juliette about the x-rays? Remember, there were now Losties involved in that conversation, so we can assume it is a legit question to her. Ben SURELY didn't think that showing the x-rays was part of the plan.

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 08:42 AM

The guy with the patch looks like Captain Feathersword. They did fly from Austrailia right.

Oh crap, and Hurley offered someone fruit salad last week! The others are the Wiggles!!!

mask2343

11-02-2006, 08:43 AM

Oh crap, and Hurley offered someone fruit salad last week! The others are the Wiggles!!!
Isn't it rumored that Greg Wiggle has cancer too? The leader with cancer? Coincidence...I think not. :)

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 08:44 AM

Not even the scene when Ben questions Juliette about the x-rays? Remember, there were now Losties involved in that conversation, so we can assume it is a legit question to her. Ben SURELY didn't think that showing the x-rays was part of the plan.

Also, in the Season Opener Juliette was touchy about Ben. She seemed angry with him then, not distraught over recently finding out he had the big C

Big_Daddy

11-02-2006, 08:48 AM

Also, in the Season Opener Juliette was touchy about Ben. She seemed angry with him then, not distraught over recently finding out he had the big C

We don't know that Juliette knew about Ben's cancer at that time. He told Jack he'd found out just a few days before the crash.

Edited to add: She was upset in the intro, and we don't know why. Maybe she did know.

I think there's been a few hints that Juliette and Ben are not best buddies. I don't think that's a con. However, I wouldn't put it past Ben to use Juliette to test Jack's intentions.

11-02-2006, 08:50 AM

Also, in the Season Opener Juliette was touchy about Ben. She seemed angry with him then, not distraught over recently finding out he had the big C

But the two are not mutually exclusive. She could have conflicting emotions. The people we are most "touchy" about are often the ones we love. Of course, I only threw that out there as an alternate suggestion, as I still think that he doesn't even have cancer.

hefe

11-02-2006, 08:54 AM

Or the smoke monster just directly ignited the hut ... no reason for an all powerful smoke monster to actually form a cigarette lighter first! ;)
Well, where there's smoke, there's fire.

hefe

11-02-2006, 08:55 AM

BTW, just a little pet peeve here.

Its' J-u-l-i-e-t.

Like in Romeo and...

Fish Man

11-02-2006, 08:59 AM

Also, in the Season Opener Juliette was touchy about Ben. She seemed angry with him then, not distraught over recently finding out he had the big C

I agree.

Scenes we've seen of the others interacting with each other (not "played to" any losties for their benefit) give us strong clues that Juliet and Ben have great animosity for one another. Also, the way I see it, Juliet hates Ben more than Ben hates Juliet.

So, I'm inclined to think that Juliet's video was not a mind-***k or a "test", but was genuine. She wants Jack to deliberately botch the surgery on Ben.

The question regarding Ben and Juliet now is, who's "good" and who's "evil".

Ooops... I've said in these threads that within Lost, there's no "good" or "evil", just different motives, agendas, and perspectives.

So, to put that question another way: Which would be in the better interest of our Losties, to off Ben or to save him?

Finally: :down: :down: :down: for killing off Eko! :mad:

The real world "coincidences" surrounding lost are becoming as unbelievable as those within the script of the show! I'm referring to: "Get a traffic ticket and your character dies on the show."

I can't believe the producers are so crass to have that as a "rule."

Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?

hefe

11-02-2006, 09:00 AM

I can't believe the producers are so crass to have that as a "rule."
They don't.

Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?
No, not at all.

Fish Man

11-02-2006, 09:02 AM

No, not at all.

Outrageous real-world coincidence then!

goMO

11-02-2006, 09:03 AM

sorry if this is a smeek (I'm at the end of page 1), but I knew Ecko was going to get killed because in his flashbacks, he was clean shaven. Jack and Sawyer always have grubby faces in the flashbacks, but Ecko looked like he just washed off the shaving cream!

NoThru22

11-02-2006, 09:03 AM

It's a spinal tumor, not cancer.

I don't think they meant Jack to know the X-rays were Ben, and I believe Ben when he says they are abondoning their initial plan. Whether what's happening now is a new plan or not, I'm not convinced.

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 09:06 AM

BTW, just a little pet peeve here.

Its' J-u-l-i-e-t.

Like in Romeo and...

Have we seen her name written down and I missed it? I have seen that name spelled both ways

hefe

11-02-2006, 09:07 AM

Have we seen her name written down and I missed it? I have seen that name spelled both ways
It's on the character guide on the ABC website.

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 09:09 AM

It's on the character guide on the ABC website.

I stand corrected then and will start spelling it correctly. Thanks heefee!

;)

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 09:16 AM

Outrageous real-world coincidence then!

Eko's ticket (can't remeber or spell the actor's name) was a minor violation that was dropped. Not a DUI, like the other two. Also, the actors who play Sawyer, Charlie, and I think one other have gotten speeding tickets and haven't been killed off.

goMO

11-02-2006, 09:34 AM

its a pet peeve because you read the character guide on abc?

it peeves you b/c we didn't read the character guide?!!!

just kidding, I hope its really not a big deal to you!

goMO

11-02-2006, 09:36 AM

and... the new chick is kinda hot, but I really don't need her to talk.. she can just walk around in the background. (not really a sexist remark, I just mean I don't want to invest in her 'character' at all..)

its not like we didn't get enough new characters this season.

and the guy- come one. he's gotta be next!!

ScottE22

11-02-2006, 09:38 AM

Oh crap, and Hurley offered someone fruit salad last week! The others are the Wiggles!!!

For the second week in a row we're talking about The Wiggles in a Lost thread. I'm starting to wonder if we need a rule forbidding discussion of The Wiggles in non-Wiggles threads...

:D :D :D :D :D

hefe

11-02-2006, 09:39 AM

its a pet peeve because you read the character guide on abc?

it peeves you b/c we didn't read the character guide?!!!

just kidding, I hope its really not a big deal to you!
It's not a huge deal, but when I see it written at least 3 different ways, it makes me wonder, which is correct, so I check. If I can play a small part in setting it right, then so be it. :)

Roommate

11-02-2006, 09:42 AM

I don't think Juliet asking Jack to kill Ben is a "test" - at least, not in any way that Ben is in on it. Mostly because it seems the only way to know whether Jack will go through with it is for him to actually go through with it. Kind of like drowning someone to find out if they're a witch.

They obviously can't talk about it out loud, and I don't see Juliet getting confirmation one way or the other from Jack until Ben is on the operating table. So count me in the "strife amongst the Others" camp.

(woohoo! my first post!)

Rob Helmerichs

11-02-2006, 09:43 AM

For the second week in a row we're talking about The Wiggles in a Lost thread. I'm starting to wonder if we need a rule forbidding discussion of The Wiggles in non-Wiggles threads...
It would probably be best if we just had a rule barring discussion of any show other than the one the thread is about. That would eliminate any possible confusion over what is allowed.

danplaysbass

11-02-2006, 09:49 AM

Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?

I don't think this would hold up...not for a second. Traffic violations are a matter of public record and both fans and journalists would be all over it. If they tried to fool us like that they would be caught red handed.

TAsunder

11-02-2006, 09:50 AM

Well, where there's smoke, there's fire.

Not in the Lost universe. In the Lost universe, where there's smoke, there's mirrors. And when the smoke clears and you break the mirror, there's more mirrors and smoke behind it.

This episode was decent, but did not redeem the season for me as it apparently did for others.

I think the pearl hatch was a cheat. Last time we saw it, there was one monitor working and the rest were static, indicating to me that other cameras were not working. Now apparently we see SOME of the stations work but all the tvs monitor the one camera? What?

Figaro

11-02-2006, 09:53 AM

The two new people...toliet guy and smart lady figuring out the tv's...every time I see them I think "oh wow, these people won some kind of 'Lost' contest and this is their walk-on role prize." In other words, no screen presence.

This probably the best description of something on the show ever!

tanstaafl

11-02-2006, 09:55 AM

About the "How did eyepatch guy know they were watching him question". When Locke and Eko first found the Pearl hatch Eko notices a camera in the hatch aimed at them. They didn't point it out this time, but maybe he was watching them?

Figaro

11-02-2006, 10:04 AM

ScottE22

11-02-2006, 10:08 AM

It would probably be best if we just had a rule barring discussion of any show other than the one the thread is about. That would eliminate any possible confusion over what is allowed.

Indeed it would. :up: You know I was making a joke, right? As a dad I just thought it was funny how many other dads and moms think the same way...

OT - I, too, was sad to see Eko go. I had heard spoilers that "someone" major was going to die but had tried to avoid finding out who it was. He was a very intriguing and sympathetic character who I thought was played very well by AAA.

RE: Juliet and Ben conning Jack together... That would be a pretty elaborate and fortuitous setup -- knowing Jack would plan to escape and inadvertently flood the hatch, knowing that Juliet and Jack would drain the hatch in time, quickly (and in the midst of trying to save one of their own) putting Ben's x-rays conveniently in Jack's sight... Plus, their relationship out of Jack's sight has seemed a little tense.

I'm not saying it's not possible as the Others are a slick bunch, I'm just saying it wasn't my first reaction.

mask2343

11-02-2006, 10:10 AM

I think the pearl hatch was a cheat. Last time we saw it, there was one monitor working and the rest were static, indicating to me that other cameras were not working. Now apparently we see SOME of the stations work but all the tvs monitor the one camera? What?
But Sayid wasn't there. And we all know if Sayid is around, then anything with wires suddenly works! :)

Magister

11-02-2006, 10:10 AM

The eyepatch guy looks like the Col. from the early seasons of Malcolm in the Middle.

What did AAA do on the set that made him hard to work with? Why did he want off the show? He was going to be one of the major losties.

hefe

11-02-2006, 10:21 AM

I thought that they found a glass eye when they were getting the dynamite from the Black Rock?
Oh, yeah, wasn't that in the other hatch...an Arrow hatch or something?

hefe

11-02-2006, 10:22 AM

Not in the Lost universe. In the Lost universe, where there's smoke, there's mirrors. And when the smoke clears and you break the mirror, there's more mirrors and smoke behind it.

Heh...Well played. :D

Steveknj

11-02-2006, 10:23 AM

Jack will not kill Ben, he's too much of a boyscout when it comes to the whole surgery thing.

I mean he took an Oath you know. :)

This might be a smeek since I'm only halfway through the thread but, I think part of the reason they had Jack operate on "Trixie" was to see if he's actually try and save her or if he would half heartedly attempt to save her. What I think they saw was that DID try and save her. In some flashbacks they've showed how dedicated a doctor he is (saving his wife early on in S1 showed that). So I think that he WILL try and save Ben if he actually does the surgery (and I think he will).

Figaro

11-02-2006, 10:24 AM

Ok I have been mulling it for hours now. I am still really pissed about Eko getting powned. There was still a lot of mileage left in that character. It was just too damn fast. There are so many others (no pun intended) who are ready to die.

It should have been Kate. She was cool in the beginning but ever since the first meeting at the "line" when she was grabbed by the others she has been nothing but a useless chippie. Her death could have have been a huge motivation for Jack and Sawyer. But no instead we have to have the soap opera love interest angle with her instead. Ugh!

Kate and Charlie are still at the top of my death list, but the new Losties are in hot pursuit. Bearing down on our smack addict and chippie like the replacement Duke's in the General Lee.

aindik

11-02-2006, 10:25 AM

What did AAA do on the set that made him hard to work with?

From watching the bonus DVD of Season 2, he just seemed like a general PITA. Like changing up the character and the storyline from the way it was first written, and other things like that.

I think things like the book club scene and the scene with Juliet and Ben talking out of earshot of Jack are supposed to show us that whatever they say and do in those situations is real. So, count me in the camp of "those really are Ben's X-Rays" and "Juliet really does want Jack to kill Ben."

As for "shot to sunshine," I haven't heard it. But I have heard "shot to" something else starting with an "s." That could be what they were going for.

TAsunder

11-02-2006, 10:34 AM

Cearbhaill

11-02-2006, 10:38 AM

This entire episode rubbed me the wrong way. I know AAA was a big pain in the ass on set and asked to be let go of his contract, but I didn't like the way he was hastily written out of the show.
According to TV Guide, Carlton Cuse said:
"When Adewale came on the show, he didn’t want to make a long-term commitment to a series. We love him and so we agreed that he would come on the show and then we would find a time in which his arc would come to an end."
Full story
http://community.tvguide.com/forum.jspa?forumID=700000049

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 10:39 AM

sorry if this is a smeek (I'm at the end of page 1), but I knew Ecko was going to get killed because in his flashbacks, he was clean shaven.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Oh CRAP!!!!!!! I just shaved this morning!!!!!!! Are you saying I'm going to die???????? Or just that if later in my life I have a flashback where I remember being clean shaven today, that I'll die then????

(ps. I'm not sure I really get what you were trying to say)

Figaro

11-02-2006, 10:39 AM

Figaro, you've got some serious psychological issues with women characters on TV shows... I really hope that future threads of Lost won't consist of 30 posts from you about various ways you wish they'd killed kate.

And if you care about yourself, stay far away from nip/tuck. :p
I have issues with two female characters on all of the shows that I watch. Both characters are portrayed by actresses who cannot act a lick. If I wish to post dreams of their demises I most certainly shall do so.

Now go back to your Lana shrine! :p

hapdrastic

11-02-2006, 10:42 AM

Does anyone suppose that the news releases about the traffic violations are fake? A ruse by the show's creators, which give us a goofy sort of hint as to who is going to bite it next?
It crossed my mind last night, but as others have mentioned I think there'd be legal problems with that.

and the guy- come one. he's gotta be next!!
At least they're not introducing him for the first time on the episode he dies on then. I hated that they did that with Arntz (sp?), it always bugs me when a show introduces a character on a particular episode just to kill them off or have them be "the villain" (if it's CSI or something) at the end. If they're introducing new-guy for a couple-of-episode arc and then he dies, I'm fine with that.

Although, to be fair, I think I would have done the same as him re: the bathroom if I were in his situation :D

murrays

11-02-2006, 10:42 AM

I’m still wondering where they are holding Jack. He’s been taken out of holding a couple times now. Was the funeral the first time he was taken out without a bag over his head (apparently)? Wasn’t there some thought that they were holding him in a submarine?

-murray

hefe

11-02-2006, 10:43 AM

Kate and Charlie are still at the top of my death list, but the new Losties are in hot pursuit. Bearing down on our smack addict and chippie like the replacement Duke's in the General Lee.
I don't know...I could stand to see more of them... ;)

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x05-cost/3/normal_costoflivingcap457.jpg

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 10:46 AM

"shot to sunshine" returns no google results and "shot to sun" only returns a couple results (most of which can easily be determined to mean something entirely different).

Also, for anyone with an extra couple bucks in your pocket, www.shottosunshine.com is available :)

modnar

11-02-2006, 11:00 AM

Maybe I missed something but it seemed like the return of Sayid was pretty sudden with no mention of Sun or Jin and no questions like "Hey Sayid, where is that nice sailboat you left with?"
We didn't see everything that occured since Sayid and others returned, so it seems likely this occured outside of what was shown. Why waste time showing Sayid explaining to the rest of the Losties what the television audience already knows?

modnar

11-02-2006, 11:01 AM

Not even the scene when Ben questions Juliette about the x-rays? Remember, there were now Losties involved in that conversation, so we can assume it is a legit question to her. Ben SURELY didn't think that showing the x-rays was part of the plan.
I'm not saying I'm convinced by either theory yet, but maybe showing Jack allowing Jack to see the x-rays was Juliet's improvisation to her and Ben's combined plan - possibly explaining Ben's comment about it at the funeral.

ScottE22

11-02-2006, 11:09 AM

I don't know...I could stand to see more of them... ;)

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x05-cost/3/normal_costoflivingcap457.jpg

...and by "them" I assume you're referring to the pair of new Losties, right?

;) ;)

Amnesia

11-02-2006, 11:10 AM

sorry if this is a smeek (I'm at the end of page 1), but I knew Ecko was going to get killed because in his flashbacks, he was clean shaven.(ps. I'm not sure I really get what you were trying to say)If the actor shaved for the flashback scenes, it would be difficult for him to go on unshaven...

Amnesia

11-02-2006, 11:14 AM

...and by "them" I assume you're referring to the pair of new Losties, right?Pair of what?

JYoung

11-02-2006, 11:16 AM

My biggest confusion now is: What is the relationship between the Others and the Smoke Monster? Are these two separate story lines that exist on the same island coincidentally? Or do the Others know or control this monster?

I think the Others know about Smokie which fuels their obsession on who's "Good" and who's "Bad".

The next time Juliette came in (when you saw) she was on the other side of the glass, whereas like I had mentioned, she had gotten buddy buddy with him and was comfortable coming into the room with him. Since she was on the other side, she must not trust him now...thinking Jack might hurt her now that he knows she was part of breaking him. Thats the reason for jacks comment “what’s wrong, you don’t trust me anymore?”

Well I do think it would have been difficult to operate the VCR from Jack's side of the glass.

I'm still think that the real reason they are holding Kate and Ford is because they are the known murderers.
I'm guessing that they didn't know about Eko or perhaps he was left out because he expressed regret to Ben/Henry in the hatch.

Or... if they control Smokie, they sicced it on Eko because he's a multiple murderer he also was the most dangerous to them (killing two of them in the first couple of days).

And I had thought that the new two Losties were there mostly for exposition but maybe not...

Rob Helmerichs

11-02-2006, 11:18 AM

Pair of what?
Yeah, that must be new slang.

Oh, those kids and their new slang.

markz

11-02-2006, 11:20 AM

...I think "boobs" is kinda hot...not a terrible addition but her friend is an idiot.

I was really glad when I saw that Kiele Sanchez (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0760989/) ("Boobs" as she is known here) was joining the cast. I have liked her since "Married to the Kellys" and again on "Related".

However, other than being great to look at, she has added NOTHING to "Lost". Her character & Tidy Bowl Man feel like they are totally out of place on this show. The did a lousy job of adding these two characters to the Losties. As someone else said, it's as though they won a walk-on part.

By the way, there are some great pictures of her on the Internet. They should be relatively safe for work (bathing suits, not nude).

DevdogAZ

11-02-2006, 11:26 AM

I liked the episode. I was sad to see Eko get killed off as I liked his character, but I liked that finally things seem to be happening.

I'm very surprised that nobody's mentioned Locke's speech back on the beach which was basically for our (the critical viewer's) benefit. Hurley was surprised that Locke was asking people to go on the expedition and mentioned that Jack never asked and never told anyone anything. Locke said, "Well I'm not Jack." :up: :up:

gchance

11-02-2006, 11:27 AM

By the way, there are some great pictures of her on the Internet. They should be relatively safe for work (bathing suits, not nude).

It's a shame, really.

I too am bothered by the two new Losties, but I understand what they're doing. They're trying to fit in their character development so they can be "regular cast members" after these first 6. Entirely speculation on my part, but I would expect flashbacks from them sometime after the break.

The one irritating thing about being a nice guy and not smeeking is everything you think of while watching has already been posted by the time you read the thread, so you're stuck with a "me too". Just an observation.

Oh, and one other thing... bathroom boy's immortal. He sounds like he's from the Clan Macleod.

Greg

ScottE22

11-02-2006, 11:28 AM

Pair of what?

Yes.

I chose my words carefully.

aindik

11-02-2006, 11:29 AM

DevdogAZ

11-02-2006, 11:29 AM

NoThru22

11-02-2006, 11:39 AM

At least they're not introducing him for the first time on the episode he dies on then. I hated that they did that with Arntz (sp?), it always bugs me when a show introduces a character on a particular episode just to kill them off or have them be "the villain" (if it's CSI or something) at the end. If they're introducing new-guy for a couple-of-episode arc and then he dies, I'm fine with that.

Although, to be fair, I think I would have done the same as him re: the bathroom if I were in his situation :D
Arzt appeared in 3 episodes before he was killed. He first appeared in Born To Run and then the following week he was a featured character in Exodus part 1 and then a week after that he was killed in Exodus part 2.

markz

11-02-2006, 11:41 AM

...Oh, and one other thing... bathroom boy's immortal. He sounds like he's from the Clan Macleod.

Greg

There can be only one!

hapdrastic

11-02-2006, 11:41 AM

Arzt appeared in 3 episodes before he was killed. He first appeared in Born To Run and then the following week he was a featured character in Exodus part 1 and then a week after that he was killed in Exodus part 2.

I guess I don't remember him in Born To Run, and in my own little world 2-parters are just one long episode. Good to know they had some forethought though.

getreal

11-02-2006, 11:43 AM

DevdogAZ

11-02-2006, 11:44 AM

Oh, and one other thing... bathroom boy's immortal. He sounds like he's from the Clan Macleod.

Greg
Just an FYI, bathroom boy and Desmond are two different characters. Desmond is the guy from the hatch who is Scottish and sounds like that. Paolo is the new character who was hitting golf balls in the last episode and was using the bathroom in this episode.

wmcbrine

11-02-2006, 12:01 PM

We don't know that Juliette knew about Ben's cancer at that time. He told Jack he'd found out just a few days before the crash.Isn't she their only doctor? Seems almost certain she was the one to tell him. (Assuming it's true.)

johnperkins21

11-02-2006, 12:04 PM

Surprised nobody's mentioned this, but haven't we already learned that the Island cures illnesses such as cancer? Rose anyone? Locke? Unless Ben is immune to the effects of the island having lived there his entire life, it seems to me that even if he did get cancer, he needn't fear it for very long. As the only doctor amongst the others is a fertility doctor, it stands to reason that they haven't had to deal with too much disease, which would support the argument that the Others do benefit from the Island's apparent healing powers.

This is exactly what I thought when Jack first mentioned the tumor. I thought, well the tumor is definitely gone by now if it's someone one the island. This is just another one of those moments that tells me the writers have no idea where they're going with this.

The tailies were tacked on at the very end of season one, after they knew it was a hit and they had to write more seasons. Now they've killed every one of them off. Ecko was not a major character, he was filler. He was my second favorite character after Hurley, but he was still just filler. So when they said they would kill off a major character, they lied.

I have yet to see anything this season that proves to me that they have any idea how this ends. I am certain that the finale will be a letdown. And I really, really loved the first season. If this show were cancelled today, I wouldn't care, and that saddens me.

getreal

11-02-2006, 12:06 PM

My first impression was that it was Ron Perlman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000579/), but upon re-watching, I'm not all that sure. Definitely Perlman-esque.

I was thinking it might be jkeegan wearing the patch in the hatch. ;)

Other comments as I continue reading through the posts ...

Evangeline Lilly is a terrific actress, IMHO. She doesn't have a long resumé, but I have thought from the pilot episode that she really plays terrified and upset especially believably. And I hope they never kill off her character.

As we ponder the good or evil intentions of Juliette, I recalled the first episode of this season where she was hosting a book club and baking/burning muffins. What was up with that? She was upset by the burnt muffins and sitting on the kitchen floor with her head in her hands. Now she is like the second banana -- just one step down from Ben -- and clearly plotting his overthrow.

Jack has issues with authority figures and tends to defy authority and NOT do as he is told. But I expect they will threaten Kate's life as a means to control Jack, and threaten Sawyer to control Kate, and threaten Kate to control Sawyer. Oh, those Others are just kooky control freaks.

Oh well ... I just needed to say those things. Now I'll get back to getting caught up on the threads ...

MacThor

11-02-2006, 12:12 PM

So those of you who think the rift between Juliet and Ben is a ruse -- part of a long con on Jack -- think they started this con before the plane crash? Juliet's whole "free will" tirade during the book club meeting made it pretty clear she was tiring of Ben's regime. There have been several more indications of the rift out of sight and earshot of the Losties.

Maybe "Shot to Sunshine" was a euphemism for "Shot by Sun."

I was pretty sure Eko was going to die in this episode, but it sure seems to make "Further Instructions" rather pointless. The whole Boone hallucination telling Locke he needs to save Eko, only so the island/SM can kill him off two days later?

It's nice that the huge electromagnetic anomaly hasn't affected their ability to play and record on VHS tapes.

Finally, is anyone else noticing a pattern?
-- Michael and Waaaaaaaaaaaaalt, come sail away
-- Haven't had a Rose sighting, but have spotted some hibiscus....
-- Where's Mrs. Clue? Haven't a clue....
-- Goodbye, Eko, eko, eko.....

Lee L

11-02-2006, 12:27 PM

Ramblnman

11-02-2006, 12:28 PM

1. I believe that eye-patch guy is really Number 2 - he had just arrived on the island to install laser beams on the frickin' sharks' heads.

2. I bet Juliet knew there was no chance of helping Colleen, but brought Jack over to 'accidently' see the x-ray.

3. Was anyone watching the closed captioning when Eko was fighting the militia guys in the church? When Eko swung the machete at the main man's head for the final time, the caption read 'Squish'.

dianebrat

11-02-2006, 12:34 PM

but haven't we already learned that the Island cures illnesses such as cancer? Rose anyone? Locke? Unless Ben is immune to the effects of the island having lived there his entire life, it seems to me that even if he did get cancer, he needn't fear it for very long.

Additional point, we know the island the losties are on cures them, but if we believe what we saw with Sawyer, the Others are on a different island, the "healing effect" may not work there.

The "healing effect" may also have other side effects we don't know about yet, which may explain why the Others are on island #2.

Island 2 may also be devoid of smoke monsters :) that could be a big deal if some of the others are "bad" (or certainly in questionable territory..)

Diane

modnar

11-02-2006, 12:41 PM

I don't think we know for sure there is a healing effect on the island. There may be scientific explanations for the healing we've seen....

danplaysbass

11-02-2006, 12:47 PM

The tailies were tacked on at the very end of season one, after they knew it was a hit and they had to write more seasons. Now they've killed every one of them off. Ecko was not a major character, he was filler. He was my second favorite character after Hurley, but he was still just filler. So when they said they would kill off a major character, they lied.

This is just not true!! The plane wreck, heroin, and "priest" were discovered when Locke and Boone first found the plane in season 1. This was long before Eko was introduced. So you're saying that this is a coincidence? I hardly think so.

I don't see how you can say Eko was filler when so much of the story was based around a plane that he was on...almost.

gchance

11-02-2006, 12:48 PM

Just an FYI, bathroom boy and Desmond are two different characters. Desmond is the guy from the hatch who is Scottish and sounds like that. Paolo is the new character who was hitting golf balls in the last episode and was using the bathroom in this episode.

Desmond doesn't sound anything like Connor Macleod. Connor speaks with this strange "not identifiable" accent that they came up with to show he'd been from "lots of different places". He sounds like Ren Hoek. So does newbie lostaway.

Sorry I wasn't specific enough.

Greg

Figaro

11-02-2006, 12:49 PM

I'll take a Shannon please. ;)
She isn't life sized or inflatable :p

gchance

11-02-2006, 12:53 PM

I was pretty sure Eko was going to die in this episode, but it sure seems to make "Further Instructions" rather pointless. The whole Boone hallucination telling Locke he needs to save Eko, only so the island/SM can kill him off two days later?

It makes perfect sense. He didn't need to save Eko to save Eko's life, he needed to save Eko to save Locke's life... to reclaim his role as hunter and become (at least to himself) the leader he was becoming before the hatch made him lose his way.

Greg

Shakhari

11-02-2006, 12:54 PM

Locke has certainly gone on his share of "I'm not telling anyone where I'm going or what I'm doing" adventures.

I was struck by that too. Despite what Hurley says, Jack is the one who almost always takes someone along, and usually more than one. Locke is the loner, the one constantly making unilateral decisions that affect the whole group. The only reason he ever took Boone along with him to the hatch was because Boone was with him, looking for Clair, when he found it.

Fish Man

11-02-2006, 12:54 PM

I don't think we know for sure there is a healing effect on the island. There may be scientific explanations for the healing we've seen....

If the island did have a healing effect, it may now be gone.

It may have been related to the electromagnetic effect in the Swan hatch that's now been shut down.

11-02-2006, 12:57 PM

So those of you who think the rift between Juliet and Ben is a ruse -- part of a long con on Jack -- think they started this con before the plane crash? Juliet's whole "free will" tirade during the book club meeting made it pretty clear she was tiring of Ben's regime. There have been several more indications of the rift out of sight and earshot of the Losties.

I don't. I think both could be true. 1) There is truly some discord between them that goes back to before the plane crash and 2) They are currently playing Jack, as they might have done numerous times in the past with any number of outsiders. One thing that is clear is that the Others have dealt with outsiders many times before. There's a big difference between the two of them not seeing eye to eye (pun intended) on everything and her wanting him dead. Thus, I don't think it's fair to say that just because Ben and Julia didn't get along before the plane crash they are incapable of working towards a common goal regarding Jack just because said goal also involves giving the appearance of a rift.

lew

11-02-2006, 12:58 PM

Big difference between having a rift or even a tirade and murdering someone.

So those of you who think the rift between Juliet and Ben is a ruse -- part of a long con on Jack -- think they started this con before the plane crash? Juliet's whole "free will" tirade during the book club meeting made it pretty clear she was tiring of Ben's regime. There have been several more indications of the rift out of sight and earshot of the Losties.

11-02-2006, 12:59 PM

If the island did have a healing effect, it may now be gone.

It may have been related to the electromagnetic effect in the Swan hatch that's now been shut down.

True, but Ben found out about his tumor before the plane crash, so he at least had as much time as Rose to heal.

dtle

11-02-2006, 01:03 PM

Kiele Sanchez in Maxim this month:
http://www.maximonline.com/articles/images/7327.jpg

Hi-rez picture here. (http://usemycomputer.com/indeximages/women/Kiele.Sanchez/kielesanchezunknownphotoshoot3.jpg)

tivoboyjr

11-02-2006, 01:03 PM

There is no way Jack will botch the surgery on purpose. If so, it is a radical departure from his character. I could see him refusing to do it altogether but even that is unlikely.

If Jack operates on Ben, Ben will die. That's Jack's history. He doesn't need to botch it on purpose. Remember "Body Heat," where Kathleen Turner's character found an incompetent lawyer to handle her husband's will so he would screw up and it would be invalidated? Same deal here. Juliet brought Jack to the island so he could screw up Ben's surgery. The little show she put on with the video was just to motivate him (Mr. Defiant) to try to save Ben, which of course he will try to do, but Ben will die. It would be a nice touch, though, if Juliet would put a clock in the operating room so Jack could get the time of death right.

5thcrewman

11-02-2006, 01:04 PM

Sawyer needs a sword ;)

Figaro

11-02-2006, 01:04 PM

Figaro

11-02-2006, 01:06 PM

If Jack operates on Ben, Ben will die. That's Jack's history. He doesn't need to botch it on purpose. Remember "Body Heat," where Kathleen Turner's character found an incompetent lawyer to handle her husband's will so he would screw up and it would be invalidated? Same deal here. Juliet brought Jack to the island so he could screw up Ben's surgery. The little show she put on with the video was just to motivate him (Mr. Defiant) to try to save Ben, which of course he will try to do, but Ben will die. It would be a nice touch, though, if Juliet would put a clock in the operating room so Jack could get the time of death right.
Only one of the patients that he operated on in his past has died. What are you talking about?

Fish Man

11-02-2006, 01:09 PM

Shiny!

No leering!

aindik

11-02-2006, 01:10 PM

Figaro

11-02-2006, 01:11 PM

No leering!
Me leer? Never! :eek: ;)

Frank_M

11-02-2006, 01:12 PM

I'm not sure why it wasn't obvious to people who the "eyepatch guy" is.

Think about all the clues:

1. They live on a beach.

Hmmm. Ok, that's the only relevant clue.

But still, here he is -

Hasselhoff!

http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/3844/furyxj1.jpg

gchance

11-02-2006, 01:14 PM

Hasselhoff!

I'm serious, man.

Don't hassel the hoff.

Greg

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 01:16 PM

Well I do think it would have been difficult to operate the VCR from Jack's side of the glass.

Uhh...what I said was not speculation on my part...it was simply a recap of what happened in the episode, and at that point in the episode (when jack made that statement) he did not yet know Juliet (there hefe...you happy :) ) was going to show him a video.

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 01:17 PM

If the actor shaved for the flashback scenes, it would be difficult for him to go on unshaven...

Aha...now I see what you are saying (although they can do fake beards as part of their makeup).

11-02-2006, 01:18 PM

The Island has healed Locke and Rose. Maybe it only heals people who deserve to be healed.

There's also Jin, who may or may not deserve it, but we're not sure if he was actually healed or if his wife is carrying someone else's baby.

The island heals people, but it also (according to Rousseau) causes people to get sick.

I could be remembering this wrong, but wasn't it implied last year that Sawyer healed more quickly from his gunshot wound than normal. Anna, Libby, Boone, Shannon, and Eko could not survive the trauma inflicted upon them, but Sawyer, after being able to hang on in the early stages, had an accelerated recovery. Did that not happen? I really can't remember. If it did, I doubt it had much to do with his being deserving.

tivoboyjr

11-02-2006, 01:20 PM

Only one of the patients that he operated on in his past has died. What are you talking about?

The only patient of Jack's who hasn't died that I can think of is his ex-wife.

johnperkins21

11-02-2006, 01:21 PM

This is just not true!! The plane wreck, heroin, and "priest" were discovered when Locke and Boone first found the plane in season 1. This was long before Eko was introduced. So you're saying that this is a coincidence? I hardly think so.

I don't see how you can say Eko was filler when so much of the story was based around a plane that he was on...almost.

I did forget about that. Ok, so maybe I was wrong. :o Wouldn't be the first time.

Figaro

11-02-2006, 01:24 PM

The only patient of Jack's who hasn't died that I can think of is his ex-wife.
Who died? Sorry the marshal and Boone don't count, they were mortally wounded. Not to mention that Jack was mislead by Locke as to how Boone's wounds occourd.

NoThru22

11-02-2006, 01:29 PM

It's nice that the huge electromagnetic anomaly hasn't affected their ability to play and record on VHS tapes.
Notice the Swan station had film but the other stations have VHS.

I also thought of something. People think that Jack was shown the x-rays on purpose or as part of the plan, but part of the plan wasn't having that girl getting shot. They didn't have time to hide them when they brought him to operate on her.

aindik

11-02-2006, 01:32 PM

Who died? Sorry the marshal and Boone don't count, they were mortally wounded. Not to mention that Jack was mislead by Locke as to how Boone's wounds occourd.

There was the guy whose daughter kissed Jack in the hospital parking lot.

Figaro

11-02-2006, 01:34 PM

There was the guy whose daughter kissed Jack in the hospital parking lot.
Yeah that is the one guy who died.

tivoboyjr

11-02-2006, 01:35 PM

Who died? Sorry the marshal and Boone don't count, they were mortally wounded. Not to mention that Jack was mislead by Locke as to how Boone's wounds occourd.

I'm counting the people on the island. They were his patients and they died. There was also the guy in the flashback whose daughter kissed Jack after her father died - after Dr. Jack had operated on him. Just saying, the guy doesn't have a great track record in terms of saving people.

Figaro

11-02-2006, 01:37 PM

I'm counting the people on the island. They were his patients and they died. There was also the guy in the flashback whose daughter kissed Jack after her father died - after Dr. Jack had operated on him. Just saying, the guy doesn't have a great track record in terms of saving people.
Charlie, Sawyer, and Ben would probably argue that with you. :rolleyes:

rkester

11-02-2006, 01:38 PM

OK, my brother who is lurk-reading this thread thinks that the guy with the patch is Nathan Fillion.

He had up a pic of him and then comparing it to the caps from Lost. His nose, upper lip, and chin appear to be the same.

What do you think?

Figaro

11-02-2006, 01:40 PM

Vito the TiVo

11-02-2006, 01:40 PM

Aha...now I see what you are saying (although they can do fake beards as part of their makeup).

In fact, I think it was EW that had a bit about the flocking technique where they spray stubble onto the actors. The best example I can think of is Hurley, who was clearly clean cut in all his flashbacks.

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 01:41 PM

Additional point, we know the island the losties are on cures them, but if we believe what we saw with Sawyer, the Others are on a different island, the "healing effect" may not work there.

The "healing effect" may also have other side effects we don't know about yet, which may explain why the Others are on island #2.

Island 2 may also be devoid of smoke monsters :) that could be a big deal if some of the others are "bad" (or certainly in questionable territory..)

This one photo I uploaded is sure getting a lot of use....
http://www.pbase.com/ldkronos/image/68036660/original.jpg

You can clearly see the village where they stayed before the plane crash was on the same island as the Losties. Of course, thats not to say they weren't using island 2 before the plane crash, but I think it's reasonable assumption that most of them spent the majority of their time in the village area.

11-02-2006, 01:41 PM

I also thought of something. People think that Jack was shown the x-rays on purpose or as part of the plan, but part of the plan wasn't having that girl getting shot. They didn't have time to hide them when they brought him to operate on her.

I just think that they have certain objectives and are very good at improvising to turn unforseen events to their advantage. Did they know the girl would get shot? Of course not. But it allowed them to naturally put Jack in position to come across the x-rays. Just like with Sawyer. They couldn't have known that he would have come up with his plan to escape by standing in a puddle of water and shocking one of his captors. But when they saw him explain the plan to Kate, they set in motion a scheme to make Sawyer think that he essentially had a timebomb implanted in him. The only thing I know for certain is that the Others are very smart and are very good at thinking on their feet.

For those 100% convinced that Juliet's attempt to persuade Jack was for real, must we presume that the television was placed out of view of any of Ben's surveilance cameras?

Vito the TiVo

11-02-2006, 01:42 PM

Its not Fillion because:

Fillion is supposed to be on, I believe next week, in a Kate flashback as...

Double spoiler:

... her fiacee/husband! And from Ask Ausiello, another Lostie will show up at the wedding.

rkester

11-02-2006, 01:45 PM

Hmmm... maybe so. But still, this is Lost, Anything can happen! :)

Figaro

11-02-2006, 01:46 PM

speaking of spoilers. Next week we see the continuation of
the guy from the others having a real boner to kill Sawyer. Why is this guy so obsessed with killing him. Sawyer didn't kill his wife. He wan't to kill him over a broken nose? That is a bit much.

Vito the TiVo

11-02-2006, 01:47 PM

I also believe that the preview for next week is a misdirect. For it to be the huge episode that leads up into a hiatus until March, there has to be another "mysterious" storyline that they are not showing us any of.

AstroDad

11-02-2006, 01:52 PM

...and by "them" I assume you're referring to the pair of new Losties, right?

;) ;)

Yeah, and the guy too

Jericho Dog

11-02-2006, 02:09 PM

Although, to be fair, I think I would have done the same as him re: the bathroom if I were in his situation :DWhen he came out he should have said, "Don't go in there!".
:D

getreal

11-02-2006, 02:25 PM

The Island has healed Locke and Rose. Maybe it only heals people who deserve to be healed.

There's also Jin, who may or may not deserve it, but we're not sure if he was actually healed or if his wife is carrying someone else's baby.

The island heals people, but it also (according to Rousseau) causes people to get sick.
It also sped up the healing process re: Sawyer's gunshot wound.

I could be remembering this wrong, but wasn't it implied last year that Sawyer healed more quickly from his gunshot wound than normal. Anna, Libby, Boone, Shannon, and Eko could not survive the trauma inflicted upon them, but Sawyer, after being able to hang on in the early stages, had an accelerated recovery. Did that not happen? I really can't remember. If it did, I doubt it had much to do with his being deserving.
Oops! I smeeked -- but just a leetle beet. ;)

unicorngoddess

11-02-2006, 03:38 PM

As far as knowing who was going to get killed off...first I'd like to thank my mom. When It comes to LOST I try to not spoil myself. So she asked me this morning if I had seen it yet, I told her no. She immediately replies, "Oh, so you don't know who got killed off."

Thanks Mom.

So with that piece of knowledge, I immediately figured out who was being killed off and almost didn't want to watch the show. For anyone that hasn't figured it out yet, if you know someone is gonna get killed in an episode you know it will be the person featured in flashbacks. I can't rememeber if it was that way with Boone, but Shannon and Ana Lucia for sure.

In regards to Ben and Juliet, I can't tell for sure if she really wants him dead but it does seem quite clear that they weren't getting along...even before the crash.

That picture of the island...I think it could very easily be two different island. And as for why the island can't heal Ben. Maybe, assuming Ben has been on the island his whole life as he claims, he's immune to it. Or, what if the island can only heal one thing. What if he was brought to the island as a child to cure something else and now the island can't cure this tumor.

ElJay

11-02-2006, 04:08 PM

Episode blew. Went nowhere. Solved so little. I liked the Juliet/Ben twist but otherwise it is BORING. I am just starting to not care. They better get off their high horse and get back to the basics if they want to stop hemoraging viewers. What pissed me off most is that they re-ran some of the tedious back story with Eko... As if watching it once wasn't boring enough. Did they really need 30 minutes of setup to kill him? "Here you go, idiot viewers, invest more time into watching about this guy... oh oops, f--k you, he's dead." So in this episode they killed a character that evidently didn't mean much of anything to the overall story, yet they still had to add more mystery about Juliet/Ben. Plus now we also have the eyepatch guy and the deadly "Prey" swarm back again. Next week had better be really good because my patience with endless new mysteries of the week that have no resolution has just about reached its limit.

LordKronos

11-02-2006, 04:08 PM

That picture of the island...I think it could very easily be two different island.

Uhhh.....no, I don't think so. By the very definition of island, "two islands" would imply there was no land route from one island to the other island. Using this modified photo, please point out the break in land along the path of the red line (and river's don't count).
http://upload.pbase.com/ldkronos/image/69609850/original.jpg

It's clear the village and the tailies are on the same island, and we know the tailies and the main losties (what was the term we had for them?) were on the same island.

unicorngoddess

11-02-2006, 04:15 PM

Well, I see a pretty high mountanious peak there that would seem to fit with what they showed Sawyer...that there are two islands side by side seperated by a small amount of ocean.

Lee L

11-02-2006, 04:15 PM

IT is also one heck of a lot bigger than 2x Alcatrax.

bruinfan

11-02-2006, 04:15 PM

But is Bernard a true tailie? He was seated with Rose, but got up to use the bathroom.
tailie refers to how they crashed.
Eh, just went back and saw at the end of the credits:

Filmed entirely on location on Oahu, Hawaii

Didn't spend much/any time on Oahu.. (one week on Kauai, one on the big island, and one on Maui). I'll bet Oahu's even more popular now because of the show..
More popular?? nah. it's the same. people don't go to oahu cuz of lost. alot of people, like yourself, don't realize lost is even filmed there. Besides, at least 50% of hawaiian tourism is from japan (specifically oahu), and who knows if they even air the show there, much less make a cult show out of it. and it's so out of the way where they are filming...
there is a ranch on oahu where alot of filming is done for movies and TV, and i think it's where they film Lost. Kualoa Ranch. it's a recreational site where you can ride atv's and hike. They did Jurassic Park there. There is a golf course on that part of the island where it's in the middle of jurassic park, so beautiful. Ko'olau.
http://www.hawaiiweb.com/html/kualoa_ranch.html
Every other death on the island, the people simply died. Dead. Boone, Shannon, AL, Libby. They all just died.
One could argue that boone and shannon were killed cuz the island caused it. Boone was drawn to the plane and it fell, shannon was drawn to the analucia group by walt and the whispers.
If the island did have a healing effect, it may now be gone.

It may have been related to the electromagnetic effect in the Swan hatch that's now been shut down.
Well, there is evidence that the healing isn't permanent. Locke has had transient relapse of his paralysis, and it has been argued the island is controlling that. So if the healing effects are gone, then Locke should be paralyzed again.

this "open link in new window" trick is pretty nifty.