Report: Studio 60 Cancellaiton Imminent

[Turtleboy]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,226092,00.html

Studio 60' Concellation | Standing Ovation for 'Bobby' | Regis Is King, as Usual

Studio 60’ Cancellation Iminent

Here we go: despite receiving an order for three more episodes on Friday, the Aaron Sorkin NBC drama “Studio 60 on Sunset Strip” is about to be put out of its misery.

Cast members are already confiding in friends that the end is near. It’s likely NBC will pull the plug shortly I am told by insiders.

Last week, Studio 60 had 7.7 million viewers. Compare that with competing "CSI: Miami," with 17.5 million. That gap cannot be closed.

But ‘Studio 60’ has trouble internally at NBC, forget its intramural rivals. According to ratings stats, the “Saturday Night Live” behind the scenes soap opera loses almost half the viewers delivered to it a few minutes earlier by another new show, “Heroes,” which has become a surprise cult hit.

On Monday, ‘Heroes’ had 14.3 million viewers. The substantial drop off with 'Studio 60' is probably the last nail in its coffin. The order of the three extra episodes is considered by insiders to be a contractual move, and not one based on faith that they will ever be made or aired. The all important demo situation didn’t help: 'Heroes' had 15 percent of viewers aged 18-49. Studio 60 had 8 percent. The notion that 'Studio 60' is a big draw for NBC among desirables is, sadly, blown on those stats.

Sorkin and friends will argue that NBC has done something wrong, or that the audience isn’t smart enough. Alas, in this case, neither is true. 'Studio 60'—as I wrote on August 7th after viewing the pilot—is just a bad show. There’s nothing wrong with the acting, directing, or dialogue writing. But the premise is faulty. No one cares whether a bunch of over caffeinated, well off yuppies, some with expensive drug habits, put on a weekly comedy sketch show from Los Angeles.

Even worse: no one cares whether or not the people from the Bartlett White House puts on a comedy show. That’s what 'Studio 60' is, essentially: the "West Wing" annual talent show. There’s so much earnestness involved in this endeavour, you start to think that nuclear war will be declared if the 'Studio 60' staff doesn’t air some joke—usually one we don’t hear anyway. The whole thing just feels weighted down and frankly, not entertaining.

There is one winner to come out of 'Studio 60,' however: Matthew Perry. In this show he’s proven himself to be a star on his own separate from "Friends." His comedic timing and ability to ad lib, toss off lines, and give restrained physical reactions is what keeps 'Studio 60' even remotely interesting. We can only be hopeful that someone comes up with a great new show for him quickly—but a comedy that’s funny, not a drama that isn’t.

NBC will probably fill the lost 'Studio 60' timeslot with 'Deal-No Deal: The Next Generation,' or some such thing. So the losers here will be the audience, which is about to be pummelled by more reality and game shows. It’s too bad because around the dial there are good new dramas. Despite its heavy “thirtysomething” feel, “Brothers and Sisters” is worth keeping if only for Sally Field, Ron Rifkin and Rachel Griffiths. (But there a mistake was made, too: killing off patriarch Tom Skerritt in the first episode.)

Oh well: I hope Regis is warming up the holiday edition of "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire." We’re ready!

[Magister]

I will miss it. Studio 60 had a pretty good show going. The writer of the article seems a little uppity. Wonder what shows he actually likes.

[GameGuru]

I actually really enjoy Studio 60. So, Studio 60 gets canned but Jericho gets a full season?

[Gunnyman]

That's a shame. Perhaps it would be better on cable.

[MickeS]

"There’s so much earnestness involved in this endeavour, you start to think that nuclear war will be declared if the 'Studio 60' staff doesn’t air some joke—usually one we don’t hear anyway. The whole thing just feels weighted down and frankly, not entertaining."

Can't disagree with that. I would be surprised if it survives.

[Mr. Soze]

Another bonehead decision pending?

I deleted the Ray Liotta show unwatched, because what is the point in getting invested in a show that is going to be chopped so quickly? So Studio 60 isn't the best show on TV, but it's only been what, 6 weeks?? That is about the number of episodes I let pile up on the Tivo, because we like to do marathons, so we watched them all early this week. It's better than the vast majority of schlock the broadcast networks put out. Yeah, let's replace it with yet another game show, reality show or makeover show.

Gee, I wonder why my favorite shows are on FX, the premium channels and the torrents from Britain. I guess my demographic is no longer desirable to the OTA guys.

[USAFSSO]

Its not a great show, but still good. Like the speed of it, but that is in any of Sorkins show. They could do a slight re-tool, and make it a drama about making a comedy show. I think they still would get a good following if they bump it over to one of their other networks.

[cmontyburns]

I agree with much of this essay, excepting the oft-made criticism that "nobody cares about the behind-the-scenes making of a TV show". That's bunk. Paraphrasing film critic Roger Ebert's first rule of reviewing movies, the important thing is not what the show is about, it is how it is about it. Why would anyone care about a vampire slayer? About a bunch of people marooned on an island? It's not the subject matter; it's what you do with it. And as the author of this piece observes, Studio 60 is so painfully earnest and weighty it's just frequently no fun.

Another problem: except for Matt, Danny, and possibly Jordan and Harriett, who cares about any of these people? I just watched last week's episode "The Wrap Party", and was astonished at how much time we had to spend with the actor -- such a memorable character that I don't even know his name -- and his parents, watching them work out their family dynamic while the actor recited the history of show business as they toured the studio. There's a fairly large cast here, somewhat by necessity, but this doesn't mean they all have to have equal time. The supporting characters and their actors just can't carry it.

Note that overall I am a fan of the show, despite these obvious flaws. Aaron Sorkin is obviously gifted, and if he's not too much of an egomaniac to take feedback on these first several episodes to heart, I think he could make Studio 60 into a genuinely terrific show. But it does appear that he won't get the chance.

[sushikitten]

GRRRRRRRRR! We finally just sat down to watch our backlog of these this weekend and really enjoyed it - so of course it's going to be cancelled. :(

[cmontyburns]

Another bonehead decision pending?

Why is it a bonehead decision to stop spending a ton of money (I have to beleve Studio 60 is one of the network's most expensive shows) on a show that is hemorrhaging viewers? The special problem here is, I think, much like high-profile movie flops in today's marketplace. If a big movie doesn't draw crowds in its first weekend, it is widely reported, and the presumptive "failure" of the movie then keeps crowds away. Studio 60 is probably the most written-about new show, and every single story on it nowadays is about its ratings struggles, frequently accompanied by commentary such as that in the Fox News piece cited here.

True or not, the show has been labeled a loser, and I can't see how it can recover from that.

[Mr. Soze]

Why is it a bonehead decision to stop spending a ton of money (I have to beleve Studio 60 is one of the network's most expensive shows) on a show that is hemorrhaging viewers? The special problem here is, I think, much like high-profile movie flops in today's marketplace. If a big movie doesn't draw crowds in its first weekend, it is widely reported, and the presumptive "failure" of the movie then keeps crowds away. Studio 60 is probably the most written-about new show, and every single story on it nowadays is about its ratings struggles, frequently accompanied by commentary such as that in the Fox News piece cited here.

True or not, the show has been labeled a loser, and I can't see how it can recover from that.Boneheaded because I don't like it! Duh! :D It's probably very expensive to make, but it's another nail in the "network dramas that appeal to me" coffin. That's fine, I will get my entertainment elsewhere, like I said. But then the networks shouldn't whine about losing viewers like me.

I can't wait for a true PPV IPTV model to come about.

[MickeS]

Another bonehead decision pending?

I deleted the Ray Liotta show unwatched, because what is the point in getting invested in a show that is going to be chopped so quickly? So Studio 60 isn't the best show on TV, but it's only been what, 6 weeks?? That is about the number of episodes I let pile up on the Tivo, because we like to do marathons, so we watched them all early this week. It's better than the vast majority of schlock the broadcast networks put out. Yeah, let's replace it with yet another game show, reality show or makeover show.

Gee, I wonder why my favorite shows are on FX, the premium channels and the torrents from Britain. I guess my demographic is no longer desirable to the OTA guys.

I used to think like you, until I came to the decision that it's still worth the time if I enjoy watching the show - no matter if it gets canceled or not. :)

[katbug]

I like the show, but probably won't miss it terribly. I did think it was a good show though, and if the threads about it here are any indication of the viewers, then their numbers are a little off. Don't they know to check with this forum before cancelling shows? ;0)

Not a surprising move though considering the article I just read in EW about them cutting back on expensive shows (sitcoms and dramas) and leaning toward airing more reality and game shows 'cuz they're cheaper to make (apparently NBC is having major budget issues).

[katbug]

P.S. If 30-Rock makes it after this one's been cancelled...ugh, I can't even think about it.

[marksman]

So sad. I just saw this story.

Oh well. The networks suck at tv anyways. Can't really blame them.

[AJRitz]

It's stupid because the idea that whatever else they plug into that slot is goinng to "catch up" to CSI is absurd. I believe that history has shown us pretty clearly that juggernaut shows rarely get beat by something new. Rather, they begin to deteriorate/get old and THEN the pack catches up to them. The trick is to have something ready when the deterioration starts. Furthermore, pairing Studio 60 with Heroes is lousy programming. What is it about the two shows that suggests that they might share an audience? There's virtually NO similarity, in style or tone, between them.

[Maui]

It's stupid because the idea that whatever else they plug into that slot is goinng to "catch up" to CSI is absurd. I believe that history has shown us pretty clearly that juggernaut shows rarely get beat by something new. Rather, they begin to deteriorate/get old and THEN the pack catches up to them. The trick is to have something ready when the deterioration starts. Furthermore, pairing Studio 60 with Heroes is lousy programming. What is it about the two shows that suggests that they might share an audience? There's virtually NO similarity, in style or tone, between them.

Amen to all of that!!

[MikeMar]

damn it, i love this show!

why do they can all the good shows??? This, Smith.. and waiting for more to come

[dthmj]

It's stupid because the idea that whatever else they plug into that slot is goinng to "catch up" to CSI is absurd. I believe that history has shown us pretty clearly that juggernaut shows rarely get beat by something new. Rather, they begin to deteriorate/get old and THEN the pack catches up to them. The trick is to have something ready when the deterioration starts. Furthermore, pairing Studio 60 with Heroes is lousy programming. What is it about the two shows that suggests that they might share an audience? There's virtually NO similarity, in style or tone, between them.

Agreed.

I also think the author of the piece is a little off his rocker in his analysis of why the show failed. I really enjoyed it. It is a drama about a comedy - I don't expect it to be funny all the time. And yeah, I do care about the subject, as much as a person can care about a fictional tv show. It entertained me, and that's all I care about.

[TheMerk]

Homicide was a very good show that NBC stuck with, even though it was never a ratings blockbuster. But that was the old NBC, and the press didn't write articles about how terrible the ratings were, just how great the show was.

NBC needs to grow a pair.

[stalemate]

Burn in Hell NBC! :p

[madscientist]

I'll miss this one, just because I love Sorkin dialog and pacing.

I never really understand the common criticisms of this show. First, that the dialog is pretentious and talks down to you: I don't get it. How does it talk down to you? I hear this all the time but there're never any examples of it given. I don't feel that way. Maybe I'm too stupid to realize they're talking down to me :rolleyes:

Second, the idea that everyone on the show it so earnest about what is only a comedy show. Well, heck, it's their jobs, and their careers, and they're on TV live in front of millions of people for ninety minutes every week. I would imagine they would take that pretty seriously and worry and fret about it, even if it is "just a comedy show". Wouldn't you? Sure, it's not running the White House (or the U.N. :p) but it's still critically important to them! Why wouldn't they treat it seriously? Why wouldn't we believe that they would?

[LoadStar]

It's not gone YET! Y'all are talking about it like it's already gone!

I still think NBC will try some resuscitation before canceling it, by moving it to another timeslot. It'd be monumentally stupid of NBC not to try and maximize their expenditure in the series, particularly since they'd be out a significant amount of money for cutting it early. It's getting OK ratings, particularly in a fairly lucrative demo, so it's not like it's totally tanking... and because it's getting OK ratings, they're still making money off the series in terms of advertisers.

Besides, this is just one report... one from Fox News, who I trust about as much as I trust any people who perpetually are misleading or outright lying.

[Animgif]

This makes me sad :(

[Skittles]

:down:

This bugs me. The show has so much promise, it's got solid writing and good acting, and it's funny without being stupid. And it's having problems.

Meanwhile, braindead shows like Jericho get picked up for a full season.

Has this world gone mad?

[DevdogAZ]

It's stupid because the idea that whatever else they plug into that slot is goinng to "catch up" to CSI is absurd.
I agree with everything else you said, but this part is irrelevant. It's not about putting something in the slot that will "catch up" with CSI: Miami. It's about maximizing profits/minimizing losses. If CSI is going to continue to dominate that timeslot, then NBC can't afford to keep a show there that is as expensive as S60 and draws so few viewers. They'll replace it with something that costs less and therefore is more in line with that number of viewers. In addition, I'm sure NBC guaranteed the advertisers a certain number of viewers when they signed up for ads during this show, and if they're not meeting that number, they'll have to refund money to the advertisers, which the networks don't like doing.

Hopefully they'll try S60 out in another timeslot where there isn't such a dominant show, but it's rare that a show switches timeslots and gains viewers. I love the show and will watch to the end, but it's not looking promising.

[Domandred]

Yea I caught this news a few minutes ago on Freerepublic. Of course most of them are cheering it's demise so I made a nice post in defense of the show to my fellow freepers who apparently watched the first 20 minutes of the pilot then bailed on the show.

Anyway this is bad news not only for us but for NBC. Have you seen the ratings lately, not on any show but on the networks. ABC is KILLING NBC in ratings. CBS is killing NBC for crying out loud. CBS. Ten years ago that network couldn't buy a good show from the television script thrift store.

NBC killing a smart show (albeit not terribly exciting) and probably replacing it with some reality or game show is basically just what the 53 second tirade on the pilot was about.

There are exactly two television shows I watch on NBC. Heroes and Studio 60. Both are new shows. If Studio 60 goes (which sounds like it will), I'll probably just reschedule my Heroes watching to the Friday replay on Sci-Fi channel before BSG.

[stalemate]

Besides, this is just one report... one from Fox News, who I trust about as much as I trust any people who perpetually are misleading or outright lying.What is it about "Fair and Balanced" that you don't trust? :p

[rhuntington3]

I hope not. Its a very good show. I loved the line when Jordon (I think), said something like, "If they're offended, teach them to just turn the channel!" :up:

If NBC cancels Studio 60, :down:

[BriGuy20]

It's stupid because the idea that whatever else they plug into that slot is goinng to "catch up" to CSI is absurd. I believe that history has shown us pretty clearly that juggernaut shows rarely get beat by something new. Rather, they begin to deteriorate/get old and THEN the pack catches up to them. The trick is to have something ready when the deterioration starts. Furthermore, pairing Studio 60 with Heroes is lousy programming. What is it about the two shows that suggests that they might share an audience? There's virtually NO similarity, in style or tone, between them.

They had Medium in that slot last year, and it got around 10 million viewers a night. I think that's the timeslot threshold for not cancelling. I actually think Medium would do slightly better in that slot this year given Heroes' ratings and that the shows seem fairly compatible from a subject matter perspective.

Add in the fact that ~33% of next year's schedule is allotted to gameshows (8PM), and you don't have much room for struggling shows.

EDIT: BTW, I'm one of those people that watched 20 minutes and bailed like an above poster said.

[DevdogAZ]

Anyway this is bad news not only for us but for NBC. Have you seen the ratings lately, not on any show but on the networks. ABC is KILLING NBC in ratings. CBS is killing NBC for crying out loud. CBS. Ten years ago that network couldn't buy a good show from the television script thrift store.

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention, but CBS has been the number one network for several years, and NBC has been down for a couple. NBC finished 4th out of the 4 major networks last season, and as soon as American Idol returns on FOX, it will drop to 4th this season too.

Part of the problem is that network execs are not willing to cultivate a new show and help its ratings grow. It's either a hit out of the gate, like LOST and Desperate Housewives were for ABC a couple of years ago, or it gets cancelled. I'm sure that's what NBC was hoping for with this show, because those others brought ABC out of 4th place and back into prominence, but that hasn't happened with S60 and they're probably feeling like they should cut their losses and try for another water-cooler show next season.

[rhuntington3]

Make your voice heard! Be intelligent, nice and consise and not mean spirited.

http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/

[fergiej]

I like the show, but probably won't miss it terribly. I did think it was a good show though, and if the threads about it here are any indication of the viewers, then their numbers are a little off. Don't they know to check with this forum before cancelling shows? ;0)
I think this may be a good point, actually. Most of us who post here are using TiVos to watch these shows. We, as a whole, probably watch alot more TV than the average viewer without a DVR of any kind. I know I watch many shows that are on the same time as others on other networks. If the main reason they want to cancel is that it's bleeding viewers over to Heroes, then, maybe TiVo data needs to be included in the Nielson ratings. Heroes is very good, but so is S60. Not usually my kind of show, but I am really enjoying it.

[Domandred]

We, as a whole, probably watch alot more TV than the average viewer without a DVR of any kind.

I know I am one of those. Without Tivo I simply wouldn't watch television and get shows from other sources. For example I watched all of Alias on DVD rental (still haven't seen season 5). At least with tivo I can stay current on my schedule instead of the network's schedule.

[marksman]

What is funny to me is I am convinced if Heroes would have flopped that S60 would have had a better chance of staying on the air. Which goes to show you how really dumb the networks truly are.

[mwhip]

I read somewhere that this show is #1 in middle aged people with incomes over $75,000. That makes me think that it is important demographic that NBC does not want to lose.

Of course one thing I don't understand is to draw more of the audience it wants why do they not re-brodcast this on MSNBC?

[marksman]

He should have taken the show to CBS or ABC.

or SpikeTV or Sci-Fi, or Channel 1 or the TV Guide Channel.

[DevdogAZ]

I read somewhere that this show is #1 in middle aged people with incomes over $75,000. That makes me think that it is important demographic that NBC does not want to lose.

Of course one thing I don't understand is to draw more of the audience it wants why do they not re-brodcast this on MSNBC?
On Monday, ‘Heroes’ had 14.3 million viewers. The substantial drop off with 'Studio 60' is probably the last nail in its coffin. The order of the three extra episodes is considered by insiders to be a contractual move, and not one based on faith that they will ever be made or aired. The all important demo situation didn’t help: 'Heroes' had 15 percent of viewers aged 18-49. Studio 60 had 8 percent. The notion that 'Studio 60' is a big draw for NBC among desirables is, sadly, blown on those stats.
The "desireables" talked about in the article are what you are referring to. Apparently this stat has been a little overblown.

[Lori]

I am quite fond of this show, and will be sad if it gets cancelled. I am also surprised that Sorkin didn't have some sort of commitment beyond, you know, 10 shows, but maybe not. I mean, even Sports Night, which exactly seven people ever watched in its original ABC run, got two seasons...Joey got two seasons, fer cryin' out loud.

Bad decision by NBC--but I have been expecting it. :(

[drew2k]

I read somewhere that this show is #1 in middle aged people with incomes over $75,000. That makes me think that it is important demographic that NBC does not want to lose.

Of course one thing I don't understand is to draw more of the audience it wants why do they not re-brodcast this on MSNBC?

On Monday, ‘Heroes’ had 14.3 million viewers. The substantial drop off with 'Studio 60' is probably the last nail in its coffin. The order of the three extra episodes is considered by insiders to be a contractual move, and not one based on faith that they will ever be made or aired. The all important demo situation didn’t help: 'Heroes' had 15 percent of viewers aged 18-49. Studio 60 had 8 percent. The notion that 'Studio 60' is a big draw for NBC among desirables is, sadly, blown on those stats.
The "desireables" talked about in the article are what you are referring to. Apparently this stat has been a little overblown.There are two different sets of "desirables" being discussed here. The Fox article is talking about viewers aged 18-49 as being the stat for which NBC is not excelling, while mwhip is talking about middle-aged viewers earning over $75K per year.

The FOX article doesn't address this latter group, but these are two VERY different but desirable audiences.

[AJRitz]

They had Medium in that slot last year, and it got around 10 million viewers a night. I think that's the timeslot threshold for not cancelling. I actually think Medium would do slightly better in that slot this year given Heroes' ratings and that the shows seem fairly compatible from a subject matter perspective.

Add in the fact that ~33% of next year's schedule is allotted to gameshows (8PM), and you don't have much room for struggling shows.

EDIT: BTW, I'm one of those people that watched 20 minutes and bailed like an above poster said.
Medium does make somewhat more sense to me as a companion show to Heroes. What I'm saying is that cancelling Studio 60 based on the argument that it's not holding the Heroes' audience and is not closing the gap with a CSI entry is ridiculous. At the very least, a show with as much talent and promotion already invested in at as Studio 60 deserves a shot at a timeslot that better suits it before dumping the whole show.

[getbak]

I read somewhere that this show is #1 in middle aged people with incomes over $75,000. That makes me think that it is important demographic that NBC does not want to lose.

The problem is that middle-aged people aren't as easily influenced by advertising, and a higher income doesn't necessarily mean a higher disposable income.

They may be making over $75,000 a year, but that money is going towards things like car payments (nicer, more expensive cars than younger people are driving); mortgage payments (nicer, more expensive places than younger people are living in); family vacations; saving/paying for their children's educations; and saving for retirement.

When you're younger, you don't have as many of these "grown-up" expenses and you're not as set in your ways when it comes to being swayed by advertising.

Beyond the luxury car manufacturers and investment firms, there aren't too many advertisers going after the older, higher-income viewers, so NBC can't make as much money from them.

[Stylin]

Agreed. Networks main desirable audience is 18-34, the second desirable is 18-49. If a show running in a primetime slot does not attract the above age range, it's a flop.

[cmontyburns]

At the very least, a show with as much talent and promotion already invested in at as Studio 60 deserves a shot at a timeslot that better suits it before dumping the whole show.

But where do you put it? It has already mostly washed out on Mondays. Thursdays aren't an option given recent announcements (and it was moved from there originally, anyway). Wednesdays are unlikely because it would get slaughtered by the combination of Lost and Criminal minds, unless it went into the 10:00 EST slot, but then it would have no lead-in help. Which leaves Tuesday, which is already a highly competitive night and soon will be Fox's to lose, once American Idol comes back. It's just hard to see how Studio 60 could have a realistic chance of doing better anywhere else.

Edit: of course I forgot Sundays, largely because that night isn't an option until the back half of the season, once football is over.

[Alfer]

Yup the writer of the article was spot on.....I saw the writing on the wall after the 2nd and for sure 3rd episodes.

It's a topic the general viewing public just doesn't care enough about...no matter what writer makes the show, and what actor stars in it, it did not and can not save S60.

It was doomed from the beginning pretty much.

[getbak]

But where do you put it? It has already mostly washed out on Mondays. Thursdays aren't an option given recent announcements (and it was moved from there originally, anyway). Wednesdays are unlikely because it would get slaughtered by the combination of Lost and Criminal minds, unless it went into the 10:00 EST slot, but then it would have no lead-in help. Which leaves Tuesday, which is already a highly competitive night and soon will be Fox's to lose, once American Idol comes back. It's just hard to see how Studio 60 could have a realistic chance of doing better anywhere else.

Edit: of course I forgot Sundays, largely because that night isn't an option until the back half of the season, once football is over.

Yeah, Sundays seem to be the best possible option once the football season is over, but that's still two months away. Could it hold its own against Desperate Housewives and Cold Case? Would The Apprentice be a good lead-in?

[ElJay]

I'm not surprised. From the start NBC was promoting it as "check out the STARS we have on this show!!" Whoopty-ding? As others have said in the episode threads, this show seems to want to have 'smart' viewers while at the same time the writing has this annoying pretentious slant through it that is bound to alienate some of them.

[TheMerk]

Give it either Wednesday nights opposite American Idol, or Sunday night once football is over. West Wing did well opposite Idol, since the two shows have different audiences. I think S60 would do well there too.

[Dignan]

I want to watch a show that talks over people's heads, please. I want to be challenged; I want great acting, smart, funny, and poignant. Maybe cable will have to be the last bastion for intelligent programming.

I hope this "Fox" reporter is wrong and the show lives on. If it doesn't, it’s kind of made its point.

[murgatroyd]

IMHO "The Wrap Party" is one of the best hours of TV ever. I'd be hard-pressed to find another series where episode 106 was as good as this one.

Yet it (and the series) is deemed a failure simply because it doesn't attract the particular demographic the bean-counters are looking for.

This is what we get when we let bean counters decide what we read and watch.

Jan

[stargazer21]

If it doesn't, it’s kind of made its point.

Bingo.

[rhuntington3]

IMHO "The Wrap Party" is one of the best hours of TV ever. I'd be hard-pressed to find another series where episode 106 was as good as this one.

Yet it (and the series) is deemed a failure simply because it doesn't attract the particular demographic the bean-counters are looking for.

This is what we get when we let bean counters decide what we read and watch.

Jan

+1.

[wprager]

Make your voice heard! Be intelligent, nice and consise and not mean spirited.
http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us/

Wouldn't it work better if you said, "Hey, if you cancel this show, then I will boycott the products advertised on whatever show replaces it." Being nice and concise will get you nowhere with fewer words, that's all.

I remember when Soap got canned because of the Moral Majority (I think that was the name) and their write-in campaign. Do you think the people writing in were nice and concise? No, they just said that they would boycott whatever product was advertized on the show, and that was pretty much game over.

[lambertman]

Yet it (and the series) is deemed a failure simply because it doesn't attract the particular demographic the bean-counters are looking for.


Um, it hasn't attracted *any* demographic.

[Alfer]

No write-in campaign, nor boycott will help save this show..it just doesn't have mass appeal.

[cmontyburns]

IMHO "The Wrap Party" is one of the best hours of TV ever. I'd be hard-pressed to find another series where episode 106 was as good as this one.

Wow. This was the first episode of the show that made me think that perhaps Sorkin really doesn't get it, and the series is beyond hope. I thought it was almost unwatchably bad. Way too talky in a bad way, focused on characters and situations we couldn't possibly care about (and shouldn't have to), very slow as a result, and indifferently characterized. Even the Eli Wallach stuff, which did pay off, took forever to do so.

Yet it (and the series) is deemed a failure simply because it doesn't attract the particular demographic the bean-counters are looking for.

This is what we get when we let bean counters decide what we read and watch.

There are moments in television when this kind of self-righteous indignation is warranted, but I don't believe this is one of them. The show is turning into a mess. Note that I want it to succeed. But I think Sorkin is doing this to himself, and to his network. Maybe if they were your beans you'd feel otherwise.

[Meathead]

P.S. If 30-Rock makes it after this one's been cancelled...ugh, I can't even think about it.
They are the exact same show. 30 Rock is meant to be a more funny Office-esque show while S60 is supposed to be like the West Wing.

I actually like S60 & I am starting to get pissed at the mid-season cancellations.

[RayChuang88]

Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip is failing for one reason: NBC is reputedly spending US$3 million per episode and they're not getting a decent return for that much investment. Small wonder why NBC wants to pull the plug on this show.

But yet why is Heroes succeeding? I think because its storyline has a strong appeal to viewers in general.

[Amnesia]

They are the exact same show.No they're not. Are you the same person who claimed that they were the "exact" same show in another thread?

They have nothing whatsoever to do with each other except for the fact that they are both about people who put on a sketch comedy show. Are Grey's Anatomy and Scrubs the "exact same show"? Were NYPD Blue and Barney Miller the "exact same show"?

[Amnesia]

But yet why is Heroes succeeding? I think because its storyline has a strong appeal to viewers in general....and it's not up against the powerhouse of CSI: Miami, the (season average) #5 show...

[Meathead]

No they're not. Are you the same person who claimed that they were the "exact" same show in another thread?

They have nothing whatsoever to do with each other except for the fact that they are both about people who put on a sketch comedy show. Are Grey's Anatomy and Scrubs the "exact same show"? Were NYPD Blue and Barney Miller the "exact same show"?
I have stated before that they are the exact same show & I still stand by that. Scrubs & ER are completely different. NYPD Blue & Barney Miller are completely different. S60 & 30 Rock are the exact same show with different casts & different crews. One knows it is a sit com & the other thinks it is a drama. That is where the differences end.

But what does it really matter? In the end, NBC will realize that they only need to keep one version of the same show.

[Amnesia]

One knows it is a sit com & the other thinks it is a drama.One is a sitcom and the other is a drama. Perhaps you are confused because S60 is a drama about a comedy show. That doesn't make it any less of a drama.

[Domandred]

But what does it really matter? In the end, NBC will realize that they only need to keep one version of the same show.

NBC had ER AND Scrubs, and now Scrubs is coming back.

Seems to me that they have had different versions of the same show in the past, and they will again soon.

[vikingguy]

I watch every week but will not miss it that much. Guess I don't really get the show it is way to talky at times and not enough humor. I don't give up on shows to fast and was hoping it would get better as the season went on. The last episode IMO was terrible it was boring it featured to many characters I could careless about. A show some times can try to be to damn smart for its own good.

I do wonder how many people who are mad the show is being cancelled bailed on other shows after a few episodes.

[johnperkins21]

This sucks, and I am utterly disappointed. Two years in a row shows that I really, really enjoy get cancelled too soon (the other being Love Monkey).

And to whomever posted that quip about Sports Night earlier, I was one of the seven. And I told every single person I could how great that show was when it was on trying to get them to watch. I have done the same thing with S60, but apparently I don't know enough Nielsen families.

[DevdogAZ]

The problem is that middle-aged people aren't as easily influenced by advertising, and a higher income doesn't necessarily mean a higher disposable income.

They may be making over $75,000 a year, but that money is going towards things like car payments (nicer, more expensive cars than younger people are driving); mortgage payments (nicer, more expensive places than younger people are living in); family vacations; saving/paying for their children's educations; and saving for retirement.

When you're younger, you don't have as many of these "grown-up" expenses and you're not as set in your ways when it comes to being swayed by advertising.

Beyond the luxury car manufacturers and investment firms, there aren't too many advertisers going after the older, higher-income viewers, so NBC can't make as much money from them.
Wow. I can't believe I just read that. :rolleyes: You should never go into marketing.

That audience is what kept The West Wing on the air for seven seasons. It consistently drew the most affluent audience of any network TV show and therefore the ad spots were highly coveted even if the ratings weren't as high as some other shows.

[murgatroyd]

Wow. This was the first episode of the show that made me think that perhaps Sorkin really doesn't get it, and the series is beyond hope. I thought it was almost unwatchably bad. Way too talky in a bad way, focused on characters and situations we couldn't possibly care about (and shouldn't have to), very slow as a result, and indifferently characterized. Even the Eli Wallach stuff, which did pay off, took forever to do so.



There are moments in television when this kind of self-righteous indignation is warranted, but I don't believe this is one of them. The show is turning into a mess. Note that I want it to succeed. But I think Sorkin is doing this to himself, and to his network. Maybe if they were your beans you'd feel otherwise.

I thought that after a shaky start in the first couple of episodes, with "The Wrap Party", the show hit its full stride. It quit being "sorta The West Wing, only set in this other place" and turned into Studio 60 at last. The cast has settled nicely into their roles, we got a tremendous amount of good character stuff, and the whole thing was topped off by a gorgeous performance by Eli Wallach.

You think "The Wrap Party" sucked? Then I say it's too bad that all TV doesn't suck like that.

Jan

[Hersheytx]

Could Alan Sorkin make a buddy cop show with Matthew Perry and Bradley Witford. Make it a drama with some laughs. Yeah...call it Law & Order on the Sunset Strip.
I think we could put it on Monday nights, after Heros. That would work!

[madscientist]

Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip is failing for one reason: NBC is reputedly spending US$3 million per episode and they're not getting a decent return for that much investment.I really think this is it. NBC might be willing to stick with a show with mediocre reviews (of course it is NBC we're talking about), but when you have, and are paying for, the kind of talent they have on S60 they won't be willing to nurse it along too far. The question is, regardless of how much it costs, are they at least breaking even on the show? If so then IMO they should keep it and see if it can grow. If they're losing lots of $$ every week then, as much as I like the show, it's hard to justify.

Note to vikingguy: so far the only show that I started watching then bailed on this season was Smith. That was just a bad show. Jericho is hanging onto its SP by a thread; each of the last 2 episodes have stretched that thread further.

[Lori]

No write-in campaign, nor boycott will help save this show..it just doesn't have mass appeal.

Didn't you just lose $100?

[Gunnyman]

I'm hoping another network, or cable channel picks the show up. Too much talent on this show for it to die.

[Lee L]

It's stupid because the idea that whatever else they plug into that slot is goinng to "catch up" to CSI is absurd. I believe that history has shown us pretty clearly that juggernaut shows rarely get beat by something new. Rather, they begin to deteriorate/get old and THEN the pack catches up to them. The trick is to have something ready when the deterioration starts. Furthermore, pairing Studio 60 with Heroes is lousy programming. What is it about the two shows that suggests that they might share an audience? There's virtually NO similarity, in style or tone, between them.


:up: What I can't understand is why can all of us see that, yet network exects seem oblivious time and time again to this kind of stuff?

[askewed]

Aaaaaahhhhhhaahhahahaahhh!!!!!!!!

[mrpantstm]

I find it amusing that CSI: Miami is considered a hit this season when what I've watched of it this season (not live or tivo'd either but downloaded) was crap. The Rio episode nearly made me vomit in my mouth.

Meanwhile, I've been eating up every episode of Studio 60. It's what I like to watch. Apparently though, what I like to watch is too small a demographic to keep a show going.

Overall, I thought the article was biased and poorly written but he did bring up two good points; 1) the sense of urgency that's almost too reminiscent of West Wing and 2) that Mathew Perry has done a great job as Matt Alby.

[Jon J]

West Wing West has declined steadily since its premier and deserves a quick death.

[jradford]

Didn't you just lose $100?
Er...I think he just WON $100, actually, if this news is true. :D

[Rob Helmerichs]

Er...I think he just WON $100, actually, if this news is true. :D
I thought the bet was that he could not stay away from Studio 60 threads...

[Amnesia]

I find it amusing that CSI: Miami is considered a hit this season when what I've watched of it this season (not live or tivo'd either but downloaded) was crap. ."Hit" or not hit has nothing to do with the show's quality. It has to do with the show's popularity. Not the same thing at all.

Of course having said that, I'd rather watch CSI: Miami than half the shows out there (like any show with "Idol", "Dancing" or "Makeover" in the title)...

[marksman]

I heard NBC is going to replace Studio 60 with a shelved replacment reissue of Jake and the Fatman.

[askewed]

What if a character on the show gave money away to a screaming lunitic every 20 minutes or they ate a bug mixed with rotten fish heads... Could they leave it on then? Maybe they could pretend to care about sick kids and build someone a house...

Sorry your sick Billy, I hope this KENMORE washer and dryer makes you feel better!

[TAsunder]

Oh look... someone managed to bring up reality shows in a negative context in a thread about an aaron sorkin show. How unexpected!

[askewed]

Oh look... someone managed to bring up reality shows in a negative context in a thread about an aaron sorkin show. How unexpected!

Yes, mock me for my I.Q. that works as an insult.

[TheMerk]

West Wing West has declined steadily since its premier and deserves a quick death.

???

[Lori]

I thought the bet was that he could not stay away from Studio 60 threads...

That was, in fact, the bet. :)

[TAsunder]

Yes, mock me for my I.Q. that works as an insult.

You're the only one making a connection between IQ and tv watching habits.

[askewed]

You're the only one making a connection between IQ and tv watching habits.


Gee, I must have mis-understood your comment. What do you expect from someone that likes Studio 60?

[MickeS]

Gee, I must have mis-understood your comment. What do you expect from someone that likes Studio 60?

So in your opinion, what DID TAsunder's response have to do with IQ?

[Frank_M]

I'm going along with the "it's just Fox News" theory, for now. When a network is struggling, the one way to be sure to stay struggling is to cancel quality shows that haven't yet found the audience you want.

I can see CBS having a short leash right now, as they're hot (I could make the obligitory "they'll just replace any show with CSI: My backyard", but I will refrain). But NBC has the luxury of trying to give a show time to grow.

And I hope that they will do this here.

[TAsunder]

Gee, I must have mis-understood your comment. What do you expect from someone that likes Studio 60?

Well, I like studio 60 too but I don't bring up the tired "people are dumb and watch reality tv" argument when it gets cancelled. Studio 60 probably doesn't even have ratings as good as seinfeld syndicated reruns. There are certainly dozens of fictional tv shows that trounce it as far as ratings go. I don't know why you insist on harping on reality tv shows when it got thoroughly flogged by two fictional TV shows in the same slot along with numerous fictional tv shows on one hour before it.

[askewed]

So in your opinion, what DID TAsunder's response have to do with IQ?


S60 is a well written, acted & directed show about a subject that aparently about 7.7m people find interesting. I actually am not as interested in the shows setting as I was with TWW... However, I do enjoy watching quality entertainment that isn't spoon fed to me.

"Look over there Jim it's a meteor that will kill us all... aren't you scared?"

I like thinking and following the actors words. The networks want a certain number of viewers and in order to reach that number the show has to be "friendly" to most... this show is not. Due in part (in my opinion) to "smarter" writing and a lack of the "Let's blow something up or kill it" theory that's driving television.

We're giving up thoughtful for shiny.

[marksman]

I have stated before that they are the exact same show & I still stand by that. Scrubs & ER are completely different. NYPD Blue & Barney Miller are completely different. S60 & 30 Rock are the exact same show with different casts & different crews. One knows it is a sit com & the other thinks it is a drama. That is where the differences end.

But what does it really matter? In the end, NBC will realize that they only need to keep one version of the same show.

LSU is the same thing as Blue Cliff College.

[askewed]

Well, I like studio 60 too but I don't bring up the tired "people are dumb and watch reality tv" argument when it gets cancelled. Studio 60 probably doesn't even have ratings as good as seinfeld syndicated reruns. There are certainly dozens of fictional tv shows that trounce it as far as ratings go. I don't know why you insist on harping on reality tv shows when it got thoroughly flogged by two fictional TV shows in the same slot along with numerous fictional tv shows on one hour before it.

Maybe you should. 7.7 m people is a lot. A buisness person with 7.7 m perspective clients can make money.

As to "harping"... I made one comment. You seem to be the one with the bee in your bonnet. Have a nice day.

[katbug]

Why the choice between S60 and reality shows? Sometimes I'm in the mood for dumbed down tv (my reality show addiction), and other times I need a smart show to feed my brain (S60). I watch both, why would anyone think you have to choose?

[TAsunder]

Maybe you should. 7.7 m people is a lot. A buisness person with 7.7 m perspective clients can make money.

As to "harping"... I made one comment. You seem to be the one with the bee in your bonnet. Have a nice day.

You made one comment that made no sense. Studio 60 can't even compete with fictional shows that are on the same night. It lost nearly half the viewers who were watching heroes and barely equalled the new adventures of old christine in ratings. Why bring up reality TV? There are lots of fictional shows that are doing a lot better than Studio 60 and they cost quite a bit less.

7.7m isn't much compared to pretty much everything else on monday night. A house re-run got about half that and cost nothing to make since it was a rerun. I don't have an MBA but I'm pretty sure that the house re-run made more money for fox than studio 60 made for NBC.

[Wilhite]

Why the choice between S60 and reality shows? Sometimes I'm in the mood for dumbed down tv (my reality show addiction), and other times I need a smart show to feed my brain (S60). I watch both, why would anyone think you have to choose?

I haven't read through the entire thread, so it may already be mentioned. I posted this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=322702) a while back. It appears that NBC is wanting to cut costs and one of those measures is to cut out the scripted dramas and go more with the lower cost reality shows.

Unless something is pulling in boffo ratings, I would think that it's on the block to be chopped. And I would think that S60 has a pretty high weekly budget that shows up in neon on any list that NBC Universal looks at.

[Supfreak26]

I like the show. It's definitely one that I watch within a couple of days of OAT.

But for some reason, I wouldn't be that upset if it's cancelled. I was definitely more upset when Life As We Know It, Wonderfalls, and Love Monkey was cancelled. Not sure why but I just won't miss Studio 60 as much.

Maybe it's because I really didn't like "The Wrap Party." I found it boring and confusing. Probably because I'm not familiar with The Hollywood 10 (nor do I care), I found the guy's parents completely unbelievable and annoying, and absolutely nothing happened throughout the entire show.

Now if the next ep is better, then I'll be back on the bandwagon but that last ep really turned me off of the show.

Too many inside jokes and references that I just don't get. And I'm a Tivo Junkie. Imagine how Joe American looks at the show (if they watch at all.) I'm willing to guess that's a major problem for the show right there.

[TAsunder]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so it may already be mentioned. I posted this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=322702) a while back. It appears that NBC is wanting to cut costs and one of those measures is to cut out the scripted dramas and go more with the lower cost reality shows.

Unless something is pulling in boffo ratings, I would think that it's on the block to be chopped. And I would think that S60 has a pretty high weekly budget that shows up in neon on any list that NBC Universal looks at.

That actually makes the reality comment a little less out of left field, although it never really was out of left field anyway since it is a very common response to when someone doesn't like studio 60 or the west wing. However, according to the article, studio 60 doesn't seem to fit the criteria. It's on from 10-11, not 7-8. Though it is still high priced. But so is heroes, which got a full season extension I believe.

[dswallow]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so it may already be mentioned. I posted this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=322702) a while back. It appears that NBC is wanting to cut costs and one of those measures is to cut out the scripted dramas and go more with the lower cost reality shows.
Irony at it's best.

This is exactly an NBS-in-the-making... what the Studio 60 show was all about, in reverse.

[katbug]

I haven't read through the entire thread, so it may already be mentioned. I posted this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=322702) a while back. It appears that NBC is wanting to cut costs and one of those measures is to cut out the scripted dramas and go more with the lower cost reality shows.

Unless something is pulling in boffo ratings, I would think that it's on the block to be chopped. And I would think that S60 has a pretty high weekly budget that shows up in neon on any list that NBC Universal looks at.

lol, actually, I posted the same thing 'cuz I just finished reading an article in EW about it, but I was wondering why some people here are implying that you either watch one or the other. I guess I'm just a tv junkie, so I watch some of everything. :o

[katbug]

But for some reason, I wouldn't be that upset if it's cancelled. I was definitely more upset when Life As We Know It, Wonderfalls, and Love Monkey was cancelled. Not sure why but I just won't miss Studio 60 as much.


Thank you for confirming that I didn't just imagine Wonderfalls! My daughter just asked me the other day whatever happened to that show and I didn't have an answer 'cuz it just disappeared, never to be heard from or about again. :(

[TAsunder]

lol, actually, I posted the same thing 'cuz I just finished reading an article in EW about it, but I was wondering why some people here are implying that you either watch one or the other. I guess I'm just a tv junkie, so I watch some of everything. :o

Actually I think the implication was either you have a high IQ and watch studio 60 or you have a low IQ and watch reality shows. Anything in the theoretical "middle" is as yet undefined, although if you combine the opinions of different people together, you can conclude that Sudio 60 is the only intelligent show on TV, and therefore both reality shows and other fictional shows are all lumped in the "for dumb people" category.

[katbug]

So does having an IQ of a Mensan qualify for the S60 or the reality shows? lol. I know lots of incredibly intelligent people who love reality shows, and some with lower IQs who enjoy S60. I can see where someone would come up with Reality=low IQ, S60=high IQ, but I don't buy it. Even intelligent people want to be able to sit in front of the boob tube for a little brain-numbing, non-thinking programming at the end of the day.

[Lee L]

So does having an IQ of a Mensan qualify for the S60 or the reality shows? lol. I know lots of incredibly intelligent people who love reality shows, and some with lower IQs who enjoy S60. I can see where someone would come up with Reality=low IQ, S60=high IQ, but I don't buy it. Even intelligent people want to be able to sit in front of the boob tube for a little brain-numbing, non-thinking programming at the end of the day.

:up:

I like S60, The Office (even watched the British version before most people even heard about it), I liked the West Wing and Arrested Development.

I also watch Survivor, Amazing Race, Dog the Bounty Hunter, Biggest Loser and Americas Next Top model (though that is really my wife, who is smarter than I am).

Take that demographers! ;)

[jradford]

I thought the bet was that he could not stay away from Studio 60 threads...
Quite possibly, though I thought it was just for the Studio 60 episode threads.

[TAsunder]

:up:

I like S60, The Office (even watched the British version before most people even heard about it), I liked the West Wing and Arrested Development.

I also watch Survivor, Amazing Race, Dog the Bounty Hunter, Biggest Loser and Americas Next Top model (though that is really my wife, who is smarter than I am).

Take that demographers! ;)

Careful... to some people the above information is like introducing a paradox to a star trek android. We don't want to get brain matter on people's keyboards.

[Lori]

I think that conventional wisdom is not that watching reality tv equates to low intelligence, but that not watching anything else equates to low intelligence.

If you're watching S60 and Grey's Anatomy and BSG and Veronica Mars and CSI: Law and Order and the Amazing Race and American Idol and 60 Minutes and The Class and Monday Night Football...well, I'd go out on a limb and say, yeah, pretty bright, reality TV or no.

If you're watching nothing but The Bachelor, Flavor of Love, Wife Swap, Fear Factor and Pimp My Ride, well...I think that says something about you.

And since those shows are cheap, the networks love you more than they love us and that makes us--the discerning TV viewer-- cranky.

Now, where's that flame suit?

[dswallow]

You also gotta figure that stupid people are probably underrepresented in the ratings.

After all, since they're that stupid, how can they fill out the ratings book?

[NinerK]

Homicide was a very good show that NBC stuck with, even though it was never a ratings blockbuster. But that was the old NBC, and the press didn't write articles about how terrible the ratings were, just how great the show was.

NBC needs to grow a pair.

LOL that this was a theme on Studio 60 2 weeks ago. The jerky guy wanted some dumb reality show but the woman in charge said no.....then later in the show they went for the United Nations show by an up and coming writer because it was a "good" show. The theme was "let's put a good show on the network and not this reality/gameshow crap that is dominating airwaves"......

Studio 60 isn't the best show but it has tons of potential. What a joke; Sorkin's reputation alone should get this show at least a season. Let him get the characters going.....

[NinerK]

NBC had ER AND Scrubs, and now Scrubs is coming back.

Seems to me that they have had different versions of the same show in the past, and they will again soon.

:confused:

[Royster]

Thank you for confirming that I didn't just imagine Wonderfalls! My daughter just asked me the other day whatever happened to that show and I didn't have an answer 'cuz it just disappeared, never to be heard from or about again. :(


Except that the entire season, including many episodes not aired in the US, was released on DVD. It's definitely worth a rental even though it is a little bittersweet thinking of the possible story lines the actions were setting up fir the never made second season.

[TAsunder]

You also gotta figure that stupid people are probably underrepresented in the ratings.

After all, since they're that stupid, how can they fill out the ratings book?

It's a butterfly ballot and they put all the reality shows in prime position so that dumb people accidentally punch the hole for fear factor when they really meant to put my name is earl.

[YCantAngieRead]

Figures. Just when I'm starting to enjoy it.

The networks are really teaching me to not give new shows a try by pulling them so soon.

[Raimi]

In my opinion the failure of S60 has nothing to do with it being "too smart" for an audience. I gave the show three episodes and found it to be nothing but political fluff in the same vein as the West Wing. A lot of people are talking about how hip and smart the show is and how they don't want stuff spoon fed to them. As far as I could tell, that's all the show was doing. Spoon feeding a political viewpoint in a market that's already completely saturated with the same political viewpoint. I didn't give up on S60 because it was too smart for me, I gave up on it because I felt like its political insinuations were an insult to my intelligence. :)

[Sparty99]

Several thoughts:

1) Studio 60's fate could very well be decided tonight with the Friday Night Lights airing. I would think that if FNL significantly outperforms S60 in the same timeslot, the S60 fans could face their show getting canned.
2) Regarding the reality vs. S60 debate, I do look at S60, West Wing, Lost, etc. as more "intelligent" television and reality shows as mindless dreck. That's just me. I don't think I'm more intelligent because I watch those scripted shows and don't watch reality shows. I can absolutely understand how people would watch both intelligent scripted shows and idiot reality shows. Simple escapism.
3) It's unbelievable to me the number of people who watched Sports Night. Why did this show get cancelled?!?!
4) Does anyone else have a problem with the fact that this report is coming from an essay and not an actual report in something like Variety or Entertainment Weekly? The author is spot on, but I don't necessarily think cancellation is imminent, even with a strong performance from Friday Night Lights tonight.

[jlb]

Burn in Hell NBC! :p

+1

.....er.........

-1

[stalemate]

It's a butterfly ballot and they put all the reality shows in prime position so that dumb people accidentally punch the hole for fear factor when they really meant to put my name is earl.What do they do with the hanging chads?

Also, I suspect that Hugo Chávez is somehow involved in rigging our television ratings.

[katbug]

If you're watching nothing but The Bachelor, Flavor of Love, Wife Swap, Fear Factor and Pimp My Ride, well...I think that says something about you.

Phew, none of my reality shows were listed here, lol. Mine are the "intelligent reality shows", lmao, jk. I do watch America's Next Top Model, Big Brother, Survivor, Project Runway, Amazing Race, (and of course, the ultimate mindless show: The Surreal Life :o ) etc., but also balance it out with S60, Brothers and Sisters, CSI, Without A Trace, Criminal Minds, Grey's Anatomy, Numb3rs, etc. so I think I'm safe. ;)

[Magnolia88]

3) It's unbelievable to me the number of people who watched Sports Night. Why did this show get cancelled?!?!

IIRC, Sports Night was getting higher ratings in its second season than S60 has been getting in the past couple of weeks.

But as we see now with S60, many millions of people can be watching and it still isn't good enough, relative to the competition.

[Lori]

Several thoughts:

3) It's unbelievable to me the number of people who watched Sports Night. Why did this show get cancelled?!?!


You know, I'm stunned. I wanted to prove to you that it got cancelled cause no one watched, so I looked it up.

In its second season, Sports Night averaged a little over 8 million households per week. I'm not sure what formula Nielsen uses to convert households to viewers, but I would guess that that puts them over 10,000,000 viewers in an average week.

So, I got nothing, except lingering awe at the stupidity of ABC on this point. Anyone who couldn't make money off of Sports Night should indeed have gotten out of the money-making business. :confused: :( :mad: ;)

[dswallow]

Phew, none of my reality shows were listed here, lol. Mine are the "intelligent reality shows", lmao, jk. I do watch America's Next Top Model, Big Brother, Survivor, Project Runway, Amazing Race, (and of course, the ultimate mindless show: The Surreal Life :o ) etc., but also balance it out with S60, Brothers and Sisters, CSI, Without A Trace, Criminal Minds, Grey's Anatomy, Numb3rs, etc. so I think I'm safe. ;)
Doesn't that stuff just cancel each other out so it'd be like staring at a dark wall instead?

:p

[jsmeeker]

You also gotta figure that stupid people are probably underrepresented in the ratings.

After all, since they're that stupid, how can they fill out the ratings book?


Thye get the little, black boxes that attach to the TV.

:)

No paper work required.

[dswallow]

Thye get the little, black boxes that attach to the TV.

:)

No paper work required.
Even those sorts have to know how to change a channel.

[katbug]

Doesn't that stuff just cancel each other out so it'd be like staring at a dark wall instead?

:p
Exactly! :up:

[DeDondeEs]

Although I like the acting, writing, and production style of the show, I can see how it would be axed. Sorkin has applied his formula (which I like) to various settings such as the White House and a sports show. But I find the application to an evening entertainment show to be unpromising and at times boring.

Most of America doesn't care or cannot relate to the workings of Hollywood. If Sorkin applied his formula to a law firm, hospital, fire department, police department, a regular office environment, or even a news program/network I think he would have more success. When I am trying to escape into a television show I don't want to be reminded of what I am escaping into (does that make sense?). I think an entertaining show about an entertaining show is hard to pull off.

[katbug]

Aha! I've got the winning formula! Sorkin doing a show about the inner-workings of a reality TV show! YES!!! It's a hit waiting to happen!! :up: :up: lmao :cool:

[DougF]

I only watched two episodes and quit. It just didn't entertain me. One of the guys I work with, who's as high-brow, artsy and liberal as they come, said it was *too* dramatic. He said something like "They give off the impression that they are working on a cure for cancer or something".

That said, I think the show was doomed from the beginning. DeDondeEs touched on this a few posts earlier. I don't think most of America wants to know that putting on a TV show is such an ambitious effort. It ruins the illusion that actors, athletes, etc. are paid too much for too little.

I figured NBC would give it longer, though. This was clearly intended to be their "prestige" show for this year. I'm sure they already had "Emmy winner Studio 60" promos ready.

[TonyD79]

Except that the entire season, including many episodes not aired in the US, was released on DVD. It's definitely worth a rental even though it is a little bittersweet thinking of the possible story lines the actions were setting up fir the never made second season.

The entire run of Wonderfalls was (is?) on Logo.

[mrpantstm]

I figured NBC would give it longer, though. This was clearly intended to be their "prestige" show for this year. I'm sure they already had "Emmy winner Studio 60" promos ready.

Same. I figured they'd give this show an entire season due to hype and it's "prestige". Guess no show is safe these days unless you are insta-hit.

[YCantAngieRead]

Phew, none of my reality shows were listed here, lol. Mine are the "intelligent reality shows", lmao, jk. I do watch America's Next Top Model, Big Brother, Survivor, Project Runway, Amazing Race, (and of course, the ultimate mindless show: The Surreal Life :o ) etc., but also balance it out with S60, Brothers and Sisters, CSI, Without A Trace, Criminal Minds, Grey's Anatomy, Numb3rs, etc. so I think I'm safe. ;)
Mine arent. I enjoyed Flavor of Love. And Wife Swap. Guess that makes my vote not count when it comes to smart shows. :rolleyes: :o

I get tired of the old "reality TV is garbage" argument.

[dswallow]

The entire run of Wonderfalls was (is?) on Logo.
Is. Over and over and over and over and over (et. al.) again.

It's scary to think how long they could rerun a series that last more than half a season.

[skanter]

Two truths:

If you eat too much, you will get fat.

If you watch too much TV, you will turn into an idiot.

;)

[MickeS]

I didn't give up on S60 because it was too smart for me, I gave up on it because I felt like its political insinuations were an insult to my intelligence. :)

What were those insinuations? Ridiculing people who believe the earth was created 6000 years ago?

[Lori]

Mine arent. I enjoyed Flavor of Love. And Wife Swap. Guess that makes my vote not count when it comes to smart shows. :rolleyes: :o

I get tired of the old "reality TV is garbage" argument.

Angie, I'm a little biased, cause I work with folks and that's all they watch. And all they ever want to talk about. And I keep thinking, you know, you folks are the problem--you don't want to be challenged, you don't want to watch anything where the goal isn't to embarrass or humiliate people.

Now, I like a good reality TV show as much as the next chica--I watch American Idol, and Project Runway and I watched that Celebrity Duets thing this summer. But I watch other things, things that make me laugh, things that make me think, things that make me proud. And I know that you do, too--and that's what it is to be a discerning TV viewer.

Your vote counts double. :)

[ebonovic]

This would suck big time.

As at least in my house... it has caught up to CSI... I just deleted my CSI Season Pass last week... we have zero desire to watch CSI:Miami any more, as we just don't care about the characters.

But we love Studio 60

[marksman]

You know, I'm stunned. I wanted to prove to you that it got cancelled cause no one watched, so I looked it up.

In its second season, Sports Night averaged a little over 8 million households per week. I'm not sure what formula Nielsen uses to convert households to viewers, but I would guess that that puts them over 10,000,000 viewers in an average week.

So, I got nothing, except lingering awe at the stupidity of ABC on this point. Anyone who couldn't make money off of Sports Night should indeed have gotten out of the money-making business. :confused: :( :mad: ;)

Actually you have to realize it is all a slippery slope of declining ratings. For some reason the network makes more than ever on worse ratings.

What constitutes a top 10 show now, in terms of audience, would have been canceled 20 years ago. A show getting 14 million viewers would not have even been borderline, it would have been canceled. So the reality is a few years ago the 8 million/10 million whatever Sports Night got represented the same kind of ratings, relatively speaking, as they see now.

[jsmeeker]

Aha! I've got the winning formula! Sorkin doing a show about the inner-workings of a reality TV show! YES!!! It's a hit waiting to happen!! :up: :up: lmao :cool:


The show they do it on should be the show that Jordan rejected!


It will satisfy BOTH types of TV watchers. Those that love the trai wreck reality shows and those that like the "important" and "smart" scripted dramas.

I'd be in heaven!

:D

[ebonovic]

Also... have they changed the way the do the statistics on programs?
Why?

I have yet to watch Studio 60 during it's time slot.

Heros is just that... a show that appeals to a VERY different audience then Studio 60
And is the HOT show right now, that you really have to watch the night that it is on... or risk there being a spoiler somewhere

And even though it is on cable... Monday Night Football is still a big draw.
And with another big year in DVR adoption....

[Magister]

Thye get the little, black boxes that attach to the TV.

:)

No paper work required.

Nelson is sending me books, they aren't using black boxes... At least I am not.

They are sending one book per TV, and a special one for the TiVo.

[jsmeeker]

Nelson is sending me books, they aren't using black boxes... At least I am not.

They are sending one book per TV, and a special one for the TiVo.


they do both. Boxes and the journals. Also, they have some sort of relationship with TiVo, don't they?

When I got a journal, I just got one. It showed up in the mail. They didn't know I had a TiVo. They probably didn't even have a special one for it it at the time.

[aindik]

Nelson is sending me books

Is it this nelson?
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/ATA/24818BP~The-Simpsons-Nelson-Haha-Posters.jpg

Or this one?
http://www.thenelsonbrothers.com/albums/atrcvr.JPG

[JYoung]

I'm hoping another network, or cable channel picks the show up. Too much talent on this show for it to die.

Unless CBS or ABC picks it up, it would be toast.
I don't see Fox picking it up and no one else could afford it.
(Well, not without making severe cuts and I can't see Sorkin agreeing with that)

[Raimi]

What were those insinuations? Ridiculing people who believe the earth was created 6000 years ago?How about the constant jabs at anything conservative? Or the constant we're smarter than they are elitism that permeates everything that Sorkin is involved in (and not surprisingly, it has even reared its head in this thread with the "smart" people love the show garbage). The show didn't fail because it was too "good" for its audience. It failed because it's a West Wing clone minus the interesting premise and compelling characters. Not even a huge amount of viewers that share the shows political views are interested enough to keep watching. Sorry, but its true. ;)

[phox_mulder]

Unless CBS or ABC picks it up, it would be toast.
I don't see Fox picking it up and no one else could afford it.
(Well, not without making severe cuts and I can't see Sorkin agreeing with that)

I don't see any network other than NBC trying to air it.

It would be akin to running promos for Saturday Night Live on CBS or ABC.


phox

[Magnolia88]

Nelson is sending me books, they aren't using black boxes... At least I am not.

The Nielsen viewers (http://www.nielsenmedia.com/whatratingsmean/) that are sampled for the national ratings have "boxes" that keep track of their viewing.

In a specially selected sample of homes, Nielsen Media Research technicians install metering equipment on TV sets, VCRs and cable boxes (and even satellite dishes). The NielsenTV meters automatically and invisibly keep track of when the sets are on and what the sets are tuned to. These meters are connected to a central "black box," which is actually a very small computer and modem. Information from the meters is collected by the black box, and in the middle of the night all the black boxes call in their information to our central computers.

The booklets are used for local ratings only, not the national ratings. Except during sweeps periods, when the booklets are used nationally to compare with the data from the the boxes.

[aindik]

Unless CBS or ABC picks it up, it would be toast.
I don't see Fox picking it up and no one else could afford it.
(Well, not without making severe cuts and I can't see Sorkin agreeing with that)

It would be ironic after the prior episode if Studio 60 ended up on HBO.

[LoadStar]

Nielsen does the journals for week-long surveys. The black boxes are used for longer-term Nielsen families, as far as I know - like a month long or longer. Finally, they do partner with at least TiVo - possibly other DVR providers - to get data that way as well.

[PJO1966]

Nielson gets my data directly from my HD TiVo. I don't have to do anything. They contacted me and asked for my permission to monitor my TiVo viewing data.

[TonyD79]

Nelson is sending me books, they aren't using black boxes... At least I am not.

They are sending one book per TV, and a special one for the TiVo.

Aren't you violating your agreement with Nielsen? You aren't supposed to publically admit you are a Nielsen "family." At least that was the agreement when I did some sweeps stuff for them a few years ago.

[jsmeeker]

Aren't you violating your agreement with Nielsen? You aren't supposed to publically admit you are a Nielsen "family." At least that was the agreement when I did some sweeps stuff for them a few years ago.


really?? IIRC, you were supposed to log everyone who was actually watching, and I believe that included guests.

But I may not remember it right. It was a while ago.

[Gunnyman]

It would be ironic after the prior episode if Studio 60 ended up on HBO.

Yes yes it would

[Gene S]

The show didn't fail because it was too "good" for its audience. It failed because it's a West Wing clone minus the interesting premise and compelling characters. Not even a huge amount of viewers that share the shows political views are interested enough to keep watching. Sorry, but its true. ;)
I've never seen The West Wing or Sports Night, but I love S60. Is the show political or is it just Sorkin? I don't remember too much political talk going on. There's the bit with the 700 club, but that's a side story related to the break-up of a couple.
I wish the real president of NBC, would grow a pair like Jordan, and recognize a good show and stick with it, instead of letting only 6 weeks of ratings determine its fate.
It's funny, the reoccurring theme of the show is "America isn't stupid, broadcast good, quality television, and the audience will find you." Seems to me the real NBC is saying, "No, America is stupid."

[jsmeeker]

S60 isn't as political as The West Wing, of course. Can't comment on how it compares to Sports Night, as I've never seen it.


It's easy for NBS (the fake NBC) to grow a pair because they have fake stockholders that only demand fake profits. :)

[rhuntington3]

Jeff, you haven't see Sports Night? Sheesh! Its very, very good. Go to Fry's and pick up the set.

[jsmeeker]

Jeff, you haven't see Sports Night? Sheesh! Its very, very good. Go to Fry's and pick up the set.


nope. Didn't become aware of Sorkin until after the first season of The West Wing while I was watching the Emmy's. West Wing was cleaning up and everytime someone went up there to accept, the first people they thanked were Aaron Sorkin and Tommy Schlamme. So, I decided I needed to start watching. I did, and I was hooked. Great show. I miss it terribly. While I like S60, I prefer WW. For me, a more interesting story premise that much better fits the intelligence of writing, acting, etc.

[Raimi]

I've never seen The West Wing or Sports Night, but I love S60. Is the show political or is it just Sorkin? I don't remember too much political talk going on. There's the bit with the 700 club, but that's a side story related to the break-up of a couple.
I wish the real president of NBC, would grow a pair like Jordan, and recognize a good show and stick with it, instead of letting only 6 weeks of ratings determine its fate.
It's funny, the reoccurring theme of the show is "America isn't stupid, broadcast good, quality television, and the audience will find you." Seems to me the real NBC is saying, "No, America is stupid."It's very easy to let comments that reinforce your point of view slip by unnoticed. Yes, the show is political. :)

[DevdogAZ]

It's very easy to let comments that reinforce your point of view slip by unnoticed. Yes, the show is political. :)
Once again, what did you think was political? You keep claiming that you were turned off by the politics of the show, but you've yet to make any reference to what bothered you. And I'm not attacking you, I really want to know. I'm conservative, and Christian (although I wouldn't associate myself with traditional "Christian Conservatives") and I love the show and haven't found anything objectionable in it. What was it that bothered you so much?

[jsmeeker]

Once again, what did you think was political? You keep claiming that you were turned off by the politics of the show, but you've yet to make any reference to what bothered you. And I'm not attacking you, I really want to know. I'm conservative, and Christian (although I wouldn't associate myself with traditional "Christian Conservatives") and I love the show and haven't found anything objectionable in it. What was it that bothered you so much?


he didn't say he was bothered by them. He just said they are there. He is right. It's not a lot, but they are there. But it's not as political as the West Wing, for obvious reasons.

[YCantAngieRead]

Angie, I'm a little biased, cause I work with folks and that's all they watch. And all they ever want to talk about. And I keep thinking, you know, you folks are the problem--you don't want to be challenged, you don't want to watch anything where the goal isn't to embarrass or humiliate people.

Now, I like a good reality TV show as much as the next chica--I watch American Idol, and Project Runway and I watched that Celebrity Duets thing this summer. But I watch other things, things that make me laugh, things that make me think, things that make me proud. And I know that you do, too--and that's what it is to be a discerning TV viewer.

Your vote counts double. :)
By the way, you were not even close to who my post was targeting. Just happened to be the one I quoted. :D

[smak]

Once again, what did you think was political? You keep claiming that you were turned off by the politics of the show, but you've yet to make any reference to what bothered you. And I'm not attacking you, I really want to know. I'm conservative, and Christian (although I wouldn't associate myself with traditional "Christian Conservatives") and I love the show and haven't found anything objectionable in it. What was it that bothered you so much?

Well obviously this past episode talked about Hollywood blacklisting, and of course that shows that Sorkin is a huge commie sympathizer who didn't care about communism infiltrating the US.

The female lead in the show is a very religious person, and we've never seen her in church, so it's showing how Hollywood's values are not America's values.

One of the 3 leads of the Studio 60 show is a female, and one is black, which is just plainly affirmative action run amok.

And a lot of people, especially AM talk show hosts, think that once you are caught taking drugs, you should go to jail, and in no way should be able to get on with your life, so Danny producing a huge TV show is just another Hollywood way of saying everybody should be taking lots of drugs.

-smak-

[jsmeeker]

And a lot of people, especially AM talk show hosts, think that once you are caught taking drugs, you should go to jail, and in no way should be able to get on with your life, so Danny producing a huge TV show is just another Hollywood way of saying everybody should be taking lots of drugs.

-smak-

you need to start listening to more entertaining AM talk shows. :)

[skanter]

My 2 cents:

While the writing is not as compelling as WW, S60 is one of the few intelligent shows on the air, and beautifully produced, directed and acted. It doesn't seem political to me, but there is probably red/blue state skewing as to it's ratings. If it does go off the air, it will be a shame...

[smak]

you need to start listening to more entertaining AM talk shows. :)

Well, the really entertaining part was that this talk show hosts thoughts applied to everybody but himself.

Hypocrisy is entertaining!

-smak-

[jsmeeker]

Well, the really entertaining part was that this talk show hosts thoughts applied to everybody but himself.

Hypocrisy is entertaining!

-smak-


d*ck and fart jokes are better.

:D

[ebonovic]

So has any other news service picked up this story yet?

As "rumors" like this are two way street...

One way, they could turn viewers off from watching as they don't want to get hooked on a show that is going to be canceled

Other way, it starts discussions like this, which could escallate and ultimately lead to the show not being canceled.

[Raimi]

Once again, what did you think was political? You keep claiming that you were turned off by the politics of the show, but you've yet to make any reference to what bothered you. And I'm not attacking you, I really want to know. I'm conservative, and Christian (although I wouldn't associate myself with traditional "Christian Conservatives") and I love the show and haven't found anything objectionable in it. What was it that bothered you so much?I've only seen the first 3 episodes once but I'd be glad to give you an idea of what turned me off in the show. From Mathew Perry's bigoted remarks about religious people to the flippant remarks about the Drudge Report to Harriet's comments to the effect of she was behind a sketch because it targeted "the power hungry" (as they were discussing their sketchs targeted at the Bush administration) not the Christians (I'm paraphrasing what I remember here. I don't specifically remember the context of what occurred that I found annoying.)

If you're looking for me to be more specific, I'm afraid your out of luck. As I said I watched each episode once and gave up so I'm simply going by what I remember. The first 3 episodes I watched all focused on the "radical Christian right" and their "evil" efforts to destroy the show by boycotting a product they disagreed with. I'm not religious but to be frank, I'm getting tired of Chritians being portrayed in this light.

If I re-watched the show I could happily give you a point by point description of each jab that's taken at conservatives but I'm not going to do so. :)

[LoadStar]

So has any other news service picked up this story yet?

I've seen this story directly referenced on other news services, but no one else has yet to independently echo this story.

[dswallow]

d*ck and fart jokes are better.

:D
Don't think for a minute that if there weren't significant FCC fines involved that the networks wouldn't lower themselves even further and integrate that into some unscripted reality television show.

[Raimi]

Well obviously this past episode talked about Hollywood blacklisting, and of course that shows that Sorkin is a huge commie sympathizer who didn't care about communism infiltrating the US.

The female lead in the show is a very religious person, and we've never seen her in church, so it's showing how Hollywood's values are not America's values.

One of the 3 leads of the Studio 60 show is a female, and one is black, which is just plainly affirmative action run amok.

And a lot of people, especially AM talk show hosts, think that once you are caught taking drugs, you should go to jail, and in no way should be able to get on with your life, so Danny producing a huge TV show is just another Hollywood way of saying everybody should be taking lots of drugs.

-smak-You should be writing for the show. :rolleyes:

[Raimi]

Hypocrisy is entertaining!

-smak-You got this part right. :)

[stargazer21]

The first 3 episodes I watched all focused on the "radical Christian right" and their "evil" efforts to destroy the show by boycotting a product they disagreed with. I'm not religious but to be frank, I'm getting tired of Chritians being portrayed in this light.

You're right. That is so unfair to even bring it up as a part of the story since that never happens in real life.

[David Platt]

The first 3 episodes I watched all focused on the "radical Christian right" and their "evil" efforts to destroy the show by boycotting a product they disagreed with. I'm not religious but to be frank, I'm getting tired of Chritians being portrayed in this light.

They're targeting the radical Christian right, not all Christians. You even just said so yourself. :)

[Raimi]

You're right. That is so unfair to even bring it up as a part of the story since that never happens in real life.Boycotting does happen in real life, and so does actual censorship. Just like Tipper Gore's crusade to ban offensive rock music, or the Dems attempt to threaten ABC's broadcast license for airing "The Path to 911." As Smak so elegantly stated, "Hypocrisy is entertaining."

When do I get to see the episode where the "cast" decides to show a skit about a hopeful Democratic candidate and the network is threatened with losing their license by Dems in Congress? Maybe they were saving that one for season 2. I mean, it happens in real life, why not make that the focus of the first 3 episodes. :)

[Raimi]

They're targeting the radical Christian right, not all Christians. You even just said so yourself. :)doh!! You win. :D

[MickeS]

The first 3 episodes I watched all focused on the "radical Christian right" and their "evil" efforts to destroy the show by boycotting a product they disagreed with. I'm not religious but to be frank, I'm getting tired of Chritians being portrayed in this light.

I don't know that anyone called them "evil". Are you saying that "right-of-center" Christian organizations such as Focus on the Family, Parents Television Council, Concerned Women for America and others are NOT boycotting shows, "forcing" stations to cancel airings and making advertisers pull out? Why would this storyline bother anyone? If you agree with what these groups are doing, you would have seen it as a good thing that they tried, if you don't, you would have seen it as a good thing that they failed. :)

[jsmeeker]

Don't think for a minute that if there weren't significant FCC fines involved that the networks wouldn't lower themselves even further and integrate that into some unscripted reality television show.


I watch a lot of South Park. I get my fill that way.

[MickeS]

When do I get to see the episode where the "cast" decides to show a skit about a hopeful Democratic candidate and the network is threatened with losing their license by Dems in Congress? Maybe they were saving that one for season 2. I mean, it happens in real life, why not make that the focus of the first 3 episodes. :)

Considering that (well, something remotely similar) has AFAIK happened only once, and after they started filming this season of S60, yeah... I think it's more likely it would happen later in the show rather than sooner. ;)

By the way, that move was one of the dumbest thing the congress Democrats have done. And that says a lot. :D

[LoadStar]

I've only seen the first 3 episodes once but I'd be glad to give you an idea of what turned me off in the show. From Mathew Perry's bigoted remarks about religious people to the flippant remarks about the Drudge Report to Harriet's comments to the effect of she was behind a sketch because it targeted "the power hungry" (as they were discussing their sketchs targeted at the Bush administration) not the Christians (I'm paraphrasing what I remember here. I don't specifically remember the context of what occurred that I found annoying.)

If you're looking for me to be more specific, I'm afraid your out of luck. As I said I watched each episode once and gave up so I'm simply going by what I remember. The first 3 episodes I watched all focused on the "radical Christian right" and their "evil" efforts to destroy the show by boycotting a product they disagreed with. I'm not religious but to be frank, I'm getting tired of Chritians being portrayed in this light.

If I re-watched the show I could happily give you a point by point description of each jab that's taken at conservatives but I'm not going to do so. :)

The show has been EXTREMELY fair thus far. They've included a character that is a Christian, but not a caricature of one; one that is upfront about her beliefs and willing to talk about them to a reporter from a magazine, and not the least bit concerned about what the reporter might print.

Yes, they've included a plotline where the fairly liberal executive producer/script writer penned a sketch called "Crazy Christians," and on the basis of the title alone, the ultra-conservative far right got offended and threatened a boycott. This isn't particularly a far-fetched plotline - ultra-conservative far-right organizations recruit people to send letters of complaints to the FCC about shows they haven't seen and had no plans to watch.

I truly wish you would go and rewatch the episodes, because I'm beginning to question whether you really watched them at all. I don't remember anything about the sketches "targeting the Bush administration" as being "power hungry" nonsense that you refer to.

In fact, the only political sketch we've seen being performed was in the very first episode, the one the old executive producer interrupts with his rant. Since then, the character of Matt Albie was loathe to write ANY political satire sketches until his co-exec producer basically forced him into doing so, by inserting a question about the show's patriotism into a focus group session. Since then, we've seen that they've included political sketches on the rundown board, but we really haven't seen any of them. I think they may have shown about 2 seconds of one being performed during "The West Coast Delay," but that's about it.

[murgatroyd]

...I watch some of everything. :o

You aren't alone.

It would be interesting, however, to see which non-scripted shows that Studio 60 fans watch (Project Runway, Top Chef, Dancing With the Stars, Skating with Celebrities, and, heaven help me, Celebrity Duets here).

Jan

[johnperkins21]

You aren't alone.

It would be interesting, however, to see which non-scripted shows that Studio 60 fans watch (Dancing With the Stars, Skating with Celebrities, and, heaven help me, Celebrity Duets here).

Jan

Jeopardy, Mythbusters, and Who's Line is it Anyway for me. My wife on the other hand loves American Idol, and I am constantly disappointed by that fact. We'll also watch the occasional HGTV show.

[LoadStar]

The only "reality" shows I watch are Mythbusters and American Idol... and frankly, I never really get into AI until the actual performance rounds. I can't stand the early episodes where they trot out all the people that can't sing. :(

[murgatroyd]

It's pretty clear to me so far that a lot of people allegedly watching the show are merely seeing what they want to see. They are not paying attention to what is actually on the show.

Jan

[Uncle Briggs]

They're targeting the radical Christian right, not all Christians. You even just said so yourself. :)Do you think that the "radical Christian right" think of themselves as radical? Who is in charge of affixing the label to this group. What do you have to do to get the "radical" label?

[dswallow]

Do you think that the "radical Christian right" think of themselves as radical? Who is in charge of affixing the label to this group. What do you have to do to get the "radical" label?
It helps that you can create an alliteration with the word. :)

[murgatroyd]

I've only seen the first 3 episodes once but I'd be glad to give you an idea of what turned me off in the show. From Mathew Perry's bigoted remarks about religious people ...

Gee, that's funny -- I must have seen a different show.

I did not see Matthew Perry make any remarks, bigoted or not.

"Aaron Sorkin said this" -- "Matthew Perry said that ---"

Good grief! This is fiction. Not all remarks which come out of the mouths of characters express the opinions of the writers on the show or the actors who play those characters. In fact, in MANY cases the actors themselves do not agree with the opinions of the characters they are playing.

Acting is make-believe.

So one character has issues about religion, and mouths off about other people's religious beliefs -- so what? Isn't it more important that the character on the show who is a devout Christian is played in a positive light?

Jan

[Rob Helmerichs]

It's pretty clear to me so far that a lot of people allegedly [experiencing reality] are merely seeing what they want to see. They are not paying attention to what is actually [in reality].

Jan
(edited for clarification)

[TAsunder]

Give me a break.... this show has an OBVIOUS liberal bias. That is one of the reasons I like it. Hollywood also has one, as does SNL. The show does not even remotely try to be fair. If you can't see that, you must be star struck or just a little too in love with the show.

[David Platt]

You aren't alone.

It would be interesting, however, to see which non-scripted shows that Studio 60 fans watch (Project Runway, Top Chef, Dancing With the Stars, Skating with Celebrities, and, heaven help me, Celebrity Duets here).

Jan

Project Runway, Top Chef, America's Next Top Model, Survivor, Amazing Race, Dancing With the Stars, American Idol, Hell's Kitchen, The Surreal Life....



...and the only one that causes me any kind of embarrassment: Flavor of Love.

[Lori]

American Idol, Project Runway, Celebrity Duets here.

[Supfreak26]

Give me a break.... this show has an OBVIOUS liberal bias. That is one of the reasons I like it. Hollywood also has one, as does SNL. The show does not even remotely try to be fair. If you can't see that, you must be star struck or just a little too in love with the show.


I don't see any political views in this show. And I'm not star struck (Never heard of Sorkin until this show came out) and I'm not that attached to the show.

I think people just take this show a little too seriously.

[TAsunder]

I don't see any political views in this show. And I'm not star struck (Never heard of Sorkin until this show came out) and I'm not that attached to the show.

I think people just take this show a little too seriously.

Or we pay attention.

[terpfan1980]

Personally, as someone that holds grudges against (and have been known to boycott more than my fair share of) some of the media and some of the Hollywood types, musicians and others that offer up opinions that I find offensive or inconsistent with my values I would have to say that those that are finding a heavy bias in S60 are -- as stated by Supfreak and others -- taking the show way too seriously.

Yes Sorkin has more than a little bias, and yes it shows through in his shows, but if you aren't looking for a fight or something to spoil over, there wasn't that much in the episodes of S60 that we've seen so far to get your dander up over.

Crazy Christians - big friggin' whoop. It was poking fun at a small portion of the so called religious right. Specifically the Pat Robertson (and his hardcore followers) on that side. Most reasonable human beings would point at Robertson and tell you he's a freakin' whack job. He has made comments that put him so far out on the right that very few people would want to be thought of as hangin' with him.

Science Schmience (or whatever it was called) took another swipe at that group, but also took swipes at the Taliban types and other hard-liners in other religions. It was pointing out idiocy of rigid beliefs in the teachings of some of those groups.

After that, outside of the question by Jordan McDeere on just how much free reign and tolerance she had in regards to the religious right, there really hasn't been that much there. In many ways no more or less than would be found in just about any other show one might encounter on any network.

Of course some people see fire where there is none, or feel that their beliefs make them a lightning rod for constant attacks. If you want to feel that you are being attacked, that's fine, but most reasonable individuals might then legitimately slap a paranoid label on you.

[TAsunder]

It's not worth getting upset over, I agree, but to claim it has no bias is ridiculous. It definitely has a bias, as it should.

[terpfan1980]

Ratings numbers (from Zap2It.com (http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/zap-ratings103006,0,156289.story?coll=zap-news-headlines)) for last nite (Monday, 10/30/2006):
A "CSI: Miami" rerun, 9.6/17, delivered an easy win for CBS at 10 p.m. A special airing of "Friday Night Lights" on NBC scored a 5.3/9, in line with recent airings of "Studio 60." ABC's "What About Brian" came in at 4.6/8.


Uh, I believe this is what could be termed "a clue" for NBC -- it's not the show that is the problem, it's the time slot.

As I had hoped (sorry to fans of Friday Night Lights), Friday Night Lights didn't do any better than did an episode of S60. People just aren't interested in watching NBC on Monday nights at 10pm (east time). They'd rather watch a TV show about crimes in places where there's a higher probability of seeing bikinis in the background.

[modnar]

Thanks for posting that information, bdowell. I hope NBC will at least try Studio 60 in another time slot before giving up on it.

[jsmeeker]

Thanks for posting that information bdowell. I hope NBC will at least try Studio 60 in another time slot before giving up on it.

A lot of people have been posting ratings numbers. I might have missed it, but where does Studio 60 come in overall for the week? (all days, all time slots). Does someone have that list?

[Alfer]

This site has a thorough listing of each episode and how it's numbers keep declining.

ratings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_60_on_the_Sunset_Strip#U.S._television_ratings)

[phox_mulder]

Ratings numbers (from Zap2It.com (http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/zap-ratings103006,0,156289.story?coll=zap-news-headlines)) for last nite (Monday, 10/30/2006):
A "CSI: Miami" rerun, 9.6/17, delivered an easy win for CBS at 10 p.m. A special airing of "Friday Night Lights" on NBC scored a 5.3/9, in line with recent airings of "Studio 60." ABC's "What About Brian" came in at 4.6/8.


Uh, I believe this is what could be termed "a clue" for NBC -- it's not the show that is the problem, it's the time slot.

As I had hoped (sorry to fans of Friday Night Lights), Friday Night Lights didn't do any better than did an episode of S60. People just aren't interested in watching NBC on Monday nights at 10pm (east time). They'd rather watch a TV show about crimes in places where there's a higher probability of seeing bikinis in the background.

CSI:Miami was a rerun, and it still did almost double it's nearest competitor.


phox

[DougF]

This site has a thorough listing of each episode and how it's numbers keep declining.

ratings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_60_on_the_Sunset_Strip#U.S._television_ratings)

I think that link helps to prove that the time-slot is not the problem. Hasn't CSI: Miami been on each of those nights, too?

[jsmeeker]

This site has a thorough listing of each episode and how it's numbers keep declining.

ratings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_60_on_the_Sunset_Strip#U.S._television_ratings)


Ouch.

[itsmeitsmeitsme]

I think that link helps to prove that the time-slot is not the problem. Hasn't CSI: Miami been on each of those nights, too?
Hell, CSI seems likes its on every night and sometimes twice. ;)

[classicX]

Never watched it, never found any of the commercials compelling.

And I was never "delivered" to it by Heroes, since I have a DVR.

Hopefully they will put something good in it's place.

[Lori]

Never watched it, never found any of the commercials compelling.

And I was never "delivered" to it by Heroes, since I have a DVR.

Hopefully they will put something good in it's place.

Well...it's not dead yet! :)

[Raimi]

It's not worth getting upset over, I agree, but to claim it has no bias is ridiculous. It definitely has a bias, as it should.You're right, it isn't worth getting upset over. To me, it was worth watching something else over. But you're right about the bias. Im somewhat in awe that others are trying to suggest that it doesn't exist. But then people try and pretend like CBS isn' biased, or that CNN and Fox News have no bias.

I'm not going to re-watch the show to apease others that doubt that I've seen it. This is the Tivo forum, there's nothing for me to gain by pretending to have watched the show. It's not like my opinion is going to make someone that enjoys the show suddenly change their mind. :rolleyes:

[Raimi]

Gee, that's funny -- I must have seen a different show.

I did not see Matthew Perry make any remarks, bigoted or not.

"Aaron Sorkin said this" -- "Matthew Perry said that ---"

Good grief! This is fiction. Not all remarks which come out of the mouths of characters express the opinions of the writers on the show or the actors who play those characters. In fact, in MANY cases the actors themselves do not agree with the opinions of the characters they are playing.

Acting is make-believe.

So one character has issues about religion, and mouths off about other people's religious beliefs -- so what? Isn't it more important that the character on the show who is a devout Christian is played in a positive light?

Jan
I used Mathew Perry's name in my comment because I've already forgotten the name of his character. I didn't mean to suggest that Perry was speaking from the heart. ;)

[dmaneyapanda]

How has no one yet mentioned the Steven Weber Curse?

[Vito the TiVo]

NBC is saying that the Fox story about Studio 60 is wrong.

http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=50417

[Ruth]

Well, that is reassuring. When there was no ep last night I recalled this thread and I was worried that the show had already been pulled, but I guess that's not why. Sounds like there will be no ep this week and then returning next week, probably still on Mondays. Hopefully they won't lose too many more viewers by skipping a week . . .

[MickeS]

You're right, it isn't worth getting upset over. To me, it was worth watching something else over. But you're right about the bias. Im somewhat in awe that others are trying to suggest that it doesn't exist. But then people try and pretend like CBS isn' biased, or that CNN and Fox News have no bias.

I'm not going to re-watch the show to apease others that doubt that I've seen it. This is the Tivo forum, there's nothing for me to gain by pretending to have watched the show. It's not like my opinion is going to make someone that enjoys the show suddenly change their mind. :rolleyes:

I still haven't seen any examples of this supposed liberal political bias, other than swipes at the far-right Christians. Do you have any?

[mwhip]

And the ratings for last night just came out. FNL did a little better than S60 but not much like .3

[DevdogAZ]

You're right, it isn't worth getting upset over. To me, it was worth watching something else over. But you're right about the bias. Im somewhat in awe that others are trying to suggest that it doesn't exist. But then people try and pretend like CBS isn' biased, or that CNN and Fox News have no bias.

I'm not going to re-watch the show to apease others that doubt that I've seen it. This is the Tivo forum, there's nothing for me to gain by pretending to have watched the show. It's not like my opinion is going to make someone that enjoys the show suddenly change their mind. :rolleyes:
I'm not claiming the show isn't biased. It's obviously written and produced from a Hollywood liberal point of view. However, as someone with wildly different ideas about politics and religion that what passes for normal in Hollywood, I haven't found anything in the show to be offensive. I'll agree that Pat Robertson is a whack job, I hate the efforts of the Parents Television Council, and I have no problem if a sketch show tries to lampoon the sitting president. Don't forget that SNL did plenty of sketches lampooning Clinton when he was in office.

I think that people who want to see bias and be offended by it will find it everywhere, on both sides. However, most of it isn't intentional and isn't meant to offend, so people should grow thicker skins and just learn to live with it. It would make the world a much better place.

[jsmeeker]

I still haven't seen any examples of this supposed liberal political bias, other than swipes at the far-right Christians. Do you have any?


those are pretty much the main ones.

[murgatroyd]

... Friday Night Lights didn't do any better than did an episode of S60. More people are interested in watch[ing] a TV show about crimes in places where there's a higher probability of seeing bikinis in the background than they are in watching NBC on Monday nights at 10pm (east time).

Fixed your post. :D

Jan

[MickeS]

those are pretty much the main ones.
If that's what passes for liberal bias, then I guess there is one. I just thought "liberal bias" also involved politics.

[murgatroyd]

I used Mathew Perry's name in my comment because I've already forgotten the name of his character. I didn't mean to suggest that Perry was speaking from the heart. ;)

Thanks for the clarification.

Jan

[Raimi]

I'm not claiming the show isn't biased. It's obviously written and produced from a Hollywood liberal point of view. However, as someone with wildly different ideas about politics and religion that what passes for normal in Hollywood, I haven't found anything in the show to be offensive. I'll agree that Pat Robertson is a whack job, I hate the efforts of the Parents Television Council, and I have no problem if a sketch show tries to lampoon the sitting president. Don't forget that SNL did plenty of sketches lampooning Clinton when he was in office.

I think that people who want to see bias and be offended by it will find it everywhere, on both sides. However, most of it isn't intentional and isn't meant to offend, so people should grow thicker skins and just learn to live with it. It would make the world a much better place.

I've simply stated my reasons for changing the channel. There's nothing to get over. I'm not on here shouting that the show is offensive and should be cancelled. All I was doing was attempting to explain why conservatives may not find the show enjoyable. And as you've just said, the show comes from a Hollywood liberal point of view. I personally find that distasteful. :)

[jsmeeker]

If that's what passes for liberal bias, then I guess there is one. I just thought "liberal bias" also involved politics.


liberal/convservative isn't limited to just politics.

[Lori]

Reprieve or no, this feels like Firefly all over again. :(

[LoadStar]

I'm not going to re-watch the show to apease others that doubt that I've seen it. This is the Tivo forum, there's nothing for me to gain by pretending to have watched the show. It's not like my opinion is going to make someone that enjoys the show suddenly change their mind. :rolleyes:

Well, it would help to "appease others that doubt you've seen it" if you would use examples that actually were in the show, when talking about the show.

Your whole bit about political sketches attacking the Bush administration didn't even occur in the show at all. In fact, the whole plot line of an episode talked about the fact that the main script writer was afraid of including political sketches in the show-within-a-show. The fact that you not only got this bit not just wrong, but so completely wrong that you got it backwards from what actually occured makes one question whether you actually watched the show. You might have had the show ON, but you apparently didn't watch it.

[YCantAngieRead]

You aren't alone.

It would be interesting, however, to see which non-scripted shows that Studio 60 fans watch (Project Runway, Top Chef, Dancing With the Stars, Skating with Celebrities, and, heaven help me, Celebrity Duets here).

Jan
I watch a lot of junk, depending on my mood.

Real World/road rules, Flavor of Love, Breaking Bonaduce, Gene Simmons' show, that John Force show, Project Runway, The Surreal Life, Wife Swap, etc, etc. ad nauseum.

But I'm far from typical, I think.

[Raimi]

Well, it would help to "appease others that doubt you've seen it" if you would use examples that actually were in the show, when talking about the show.

Your whole bit about political sketches attacking the Bush administration didn't even occur in the show at all. In fact, the whole plot line of an episode talked about the fact that the main script writer was afraid of including political sketches in the show-within-a-show. The fact that you not only got this bit not just wrong, but so completely wrong that you got it backwards from what actually occured makes one question whether you actually watched the show. You might have had the show ON, but you apparently didn't watch it.As I've said, I'm going by memory, but what I mentioned did occur. Just to make you happy (because that's really whats most important to me ;) ), when I get home I'll see if I can't find the scene I was referring to and give you a line by line transcription of it. :)

[LoadStar]

As I've said, I'm going by memory, but what I mentioned did occur. Just to make you happy (because that's really whats most important to me ;) ), when I get home I'll see if I can't find the scene I was referring to and give you a line by line transcription of it. :)

I can check myself - which episode did this occur in?

[Raimi]

I can check myself - which episode did this occur in?The second one perhaps, possibly the 3rd. What's her bucket is talking to Perry's character while something with the Bush administration is on the television in the background. She makes mention of how its not right to make fun of the small town but hypocrisy and power hungry something or another is just fine. It must have been the third episode. Good Hunting. If you're unsuccessful, I'll see what I can do when I get home.

[Mr. Soze]

Ratings numbers (from Zap2It.com (http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/zap-ratings103006,0,156289.story?coll=zap-news-headlines)) for last nite (Monday, 10/30/2006):



Uh, I believe this is what could be termed "a clue" for NBC -- it's not the show that is the problem, it's the time slot.

As I had hoped (sorry to fans of Friday Night Lights), Friday Night Lights didn't do any better than did an episode of S60. People just aren't interested in watching NBC on Monday nights at 10pm (east time). They'd rather watch a TV show about crimes in places where there's a higher probability of seeing bikinis in the background.Quite frankly, last night I wouldn't have watched the Resurrection let alone Friday Night Lights or S60 against the Pats/Vikes. ESPN or not, MNF is where I am on that night of the week. Hence, the Tivo.

[murgatroyd]

Reprieve or no, this feels like Firefly all over again. :(

Great minds think alike? ;)

Studio 60: the first six episodes (spoilers) (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=324459)

Jan

[Paul Wozniak]

Dont have time to read the whole thread, but I just want to say that Eli Wallach was outstanding as the old writer. Maybe someday this man will get the recognition he so dearly deserves.

[marksman]

Aha! I've got the winning formula! Sorkin doing a show about the inner-workings of a reality TV show! YES!!! It's a hit waiting to happen!! :up: :up: lmao :cool:

Actually I think that could be an awesome show if done right.

[marksman]

Or we pay attention.


Although all evidence on TV Show Talk would support the contrary. :)

[TAsunder]

Although all evidence on TV Show Talk would support the contrary. :)

I didn't say to WHAT we are paying attention. :p

[3D]

I think Studio 60 is decent, but not without it's problems. Given the expectations I had going in, I'm slightly disappointed, but still watching. That said, I wouldn't be terribly upset if it got the ax, as I feel like I've got too many shows as it is and it would save me from having to cutback on my own. That said, here's the biggest problems as I see them:

1) Although I recognize that it's a drama, I think the audience is expected to suspend disbelief a little too much by the unfunny skits. We keep getting hammered with how great a job Matt and Danny are doing, that the show's ratings are improving, and that the show within a show now has quality writing coming out the wazoo, but the sketches they've shown us are actually worse than what's currently on SNL (which is saying quite alot). This is something that maybe shouldn't bother me, but does, and it seems to bother everyone I know who watches Studio 60. I remember during the second episode thinking that with all the build up they were giving the opening sketch, they better come up with something great. The song they did was somewhat amusing, but certainly not worthy of the buildup it got, and that's probably the best skit they've done to date. The montage from episode three was horrendous (Pimp my Trike is supposed to be groundbreaking?). Even the one liners they've discussed for the news seem stale. Like I said, I know this is nitpicky, but to me it's a major distraction when the entire concept is turning the show around and improving the quality of network television. What they've show us is simply more of the same. It undermines the entire premise, particularly when everyone on the show keeps talking about how funny the skits are.

2) We haven't spent enough time with these characters for some of the stories to really strike a chord. For me, the episode where Christine Lahti's character interviews Matt and Harriet and tries to find out more about their history would have been much more effective had I had more time to actually care whether or not the two of them got back together. Over time, I'm sure we'd be given those reasons, but not yet. Would have worked better in season two (assuming there is a season two). Another example was the recent story line with Matt and D.L. Hugely's character (can't remember the name), in which they went to see the African American comedian. D.L.'s problem with the make-up of the writing staff was out of left field. I don't know that it was even hinted at in previous episodes.

3) The show's a little too preachy for my taste (not saying it's exlusively preachy from a liberal or conservative standpoint, it preaches both ways at times). This might seem out of left field, but let me use David Kelly shows as an example of the problem I'm having. I know when watching a new David Kelly show that it will be great for the first year, but by part way through year two, the minor quirks that once made the characters so endearing to me will be pushed to the forefront. At that point, the show, for me, gets obnoxious and I tune out. For me, this held true with Picket Fences, Ally McBeal, and the Practice. With Sorkin, it's not character quirks, but preachiness (hate to be redundant, but it's the word that best fits what I'm getting at). It took me several seasons of West Wing, however, before it go to be too much for me. With Studio 60, we're getting awfully close and its only four or five episodes in.

4) Enough with Jordan's self-satisfied smirks after the end of every conversation she has.

Re-reading this, I'm sure it seems that I hate this show. I don't. Like I said, I do enjoy it and think it has potential based on the talent both behind and in front of the camera. Because of this and the limited amount of quality programming, I can overlook my minor gripes. Remember, however, that this is not a case of viewers not finding a new show, but of viewers sampling the first couple of episodes and then bailing. My points are merely to explain how I can see why those people might have tuned out.

[marksman]

I find it mildly amusing that people are taking exception to attacks on Extreme Christians as being a liberal predjudice when the reality is, for anyone, irregardless of their religious or political leanings, knows the group that most often has protested and taken issues with television shows are extreme right christian groups. Since the show is about making a TV Show, it is reasonable to think it might address the issue.

So are they being bashed simply for being accurate?

[murgatroyd]

Another example was the recent story line with Matt and D.L. Hugely's character (can't remember the name), in which they went to see the African American comedian. D.L.'s problem with the make-up of the writing staff was out of left field. I don't know that it was even hinted at in previous episodes.

You missed the whole "I can't do the voices" speech from Simon, where he was complaining that Rickey and Ron wanted him to send up Bill Cosby?

"Jell-o pudding pops!"

:confused:

Jan

[Raimi]

I find it mildly amusing that people are taking exception to attacks on Extreme Christians as being a liberal predjudice when the reality is, for anyone, irregardless of their religious or political leanings, knows the group that most often has protested and taken issues with television shows are extreme right christian groups. Since the show is about making a TV Show, it is reasonable to think it might address the issue.

So are they being bashed simply for being accurate?To be completely honest, the "Crazy Christians" plotline isn't one of the reasons I disliked the show. It's the most obvious political aspect and so thats what everybody has glommed onto (and I haven't given them a lot more to go on because frankly I just don't remember each political jab that annoyed me). :)

[smickola]

I've enjoyed the show so far, but it doesn't ring true to me. Sorkin's raid fire, one witty enjoinder after another style fit well with the West Wing...in that setting, I expected the characters to be smart, well informed, well rounded types that could carry on that type of conversation. But Hollywood writers? Look at the crap that comes out for movies and television...zero originality, take no chances, copy anything that is working ad nauseum, aim for the lowest common denominator. Sorkin himself skewers the medium every chance he can get...yet we're supposed to believe that the writers of a sketch comedy show banter on like nuclear physicists all the time?

[drew2k]

< hijack >
I find it mildly amusing that people are taking exception to attacks on Extreme Christians as being a liberal predjudice when the reality is, for anyone, irregardless of their religious or political leanings, knows the group that most often has protested and taken issues with television shows are extreme right christian groups. Since the show is about making a TV Show, it is reasonable to think it might address the issue.

So are they being bashed simply for being accurate?<pet peeve> Irregardless. </pet peeve>

LOL! Oh, how I hate this word! I have a co-worker that uses it in formal documentation all the time, and it drives me crazy. I can live with it here, where we're all casual and breezy (the very epitome of "informal"), but it seems I can't escape being reminded of my co-worker! :o Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.
< /hijack >

[PJO1966]

I've enjoyed the show so far, but it doesn't ring true to me. Sorkin's raid fire, one witty enjoinder after another style fit well with the West Wing...in that setting, I expected the characters to be smart, well informed, well rounded types that could carry on that type of conversation. But Hollywood writers? Look at the crap that comes out for movies and television...zero originality, take no chances, copy anything that is working ad nauseum, aim for the lowest common denominator. Sorkin himself skewers the medium every chance he can get...yet we're supposed to believe that the writers of a sketch comedy show banter on like nuclear physicists all the time?


You've obviously never spent time with TV writers. Every single one I've ever spent time with sounded just like these people.

[murgatroyd]

I've enjoyed the show so far, but it doesn't ring true to me. Sorkin's raid fire, one witty enjoinder after another style fit well with the West Wing...in that setting, I expected the characters to be smart, well informed, well rounded types that could carry on that type of conversation. But Hollywood writers? Look at the crap that comes out for movies and television...zero originality, take no chances, copy anything that is working ad nauseum, aim for the lowest common denominator. Sorkin himself skewers the medium every chance he can get...yet we're supposed to believe that the writers of a sketch comedy show banter on like nuclear physicists all the time?

You don't believe comedians can do rapid fire, witty rejoinders one after another?

Haven't you ever watched Robin Williams when he's doing his free-association stuff? He leaps from one joke to the next like lightning.

Just because the only thing that sells is the crap, that doesn't mean the writers aren't capable of writing much better.

Jan

[3D]

You missed the whole "I can't do the voices" speech from Simon, where he was complaining that Rickey and Ron wanted him to send up Bill Cosby?

"Jell-o pudding pops!"

:confused:

Jan

Now that you mention it, I do remember that. Although I still think they could have laid a little more groundwork for that storyline, I stand corrected.

[smak]

I've enjoyed the show so far, but it doesn't ring true to me. Sorkin's raid fire, one witty enjoinder after another style fit well with the West Wing...in that setting, I expected the characters to be smart, well informed, well rounded types that could carry on that type of conversation. But Hollywood writers? Look at the crap that comes out for movies and television...zero originality, take no chances, copy anything that is working ad nauseum, aim for the lowest common denominator. Sorkin himself skewers the medium every chance he can get...yet we're supposed to believe that the writers of a sketch comedy show banter on like nuclear physicists all the time?

We're talking about specific Hollywood writers.

Writers on The Simpsons, Conan and other comedy shows are notorious for being Ivy League educated.

Conan in fact went to harvard.
Al Jean one of the bigwigs on The Simpsons went to Harvard.

The simpson's has made numerous jokes at the expense of their Harvard writers. I think Krusty's writers are all from harvard as an example.

-smak-

[murgatroyd]

Now that you mention it, I do remember that. Although I still think they could have laid a little more groundwork for that storyline, I stand corrected.

I take your point -- but people are already complaining that 'nothing happens' and Sorkin is spending too much time setting things up and not doing stuff, so what can the poor guy do? ;)

Jan

[katbug]

I've just gotta ask...doesn't anyone watch tv for entertainment anymore? :confused:

I'm apparently in the minority here (please don't read this as my being stupid or ignorant, which could be the case, lol), but I honestly haven't even noticed politics or any other form of bias in this show. I'm watching to be entertained, not influenced, so I'm not getting any brainwashing messages from this show. To me it's about interactions and relationships between a lot of very different people with different viewpoints, but that's where the genius of the show is...it's entertaining, which it would discontinue being if I felt like I needed to pick it apart and see agendas hidden in it each week. I guess blissful ignorance is my favorite way to enjoy tv shows.

Ok, that's all. "We now return you to your previously scheduled dissection." ;)

[Maui]

I've just gotta ask...doesn't anyone watch tv for entertainment anymore? :confused:

I'm apparently in the minority here (please don't read this as my being stupid or ignorant, which could be the case, lol), but I honestly haven't even noticed politics or any other form of bias in this show. I'm watching to be entertained, not influenced, so I'm not getting any brainwashing messages from this show. To me it's about interactions and relationships between a lot of very different people with different viewpoints, but that's where the genius of the show is...it's entertaining, which it would discontinue being if I felt like I needed to pick it apart and see agendas hidden in it each week. I guess blissful ignorance is my favorite way to enjoy tv shows.

Ok, that's all. "We now return you to your previously scheduled dissection." ;)

I'm with you on that one Katbug. Entertainment first. I don't really dissect, nor do I assume that some writer or producer is pushing some agenda off on me.

[skanter]

I've just gotta ask...doesn't anyone watch tv for entertainment anymore? :confused:

I'm apparently in the minority here (please don't read this as my being stupid or ignorant, which could be the case, lol), but I honestly haven't even noticed politics or any other form of bias in this show. I'm watching to be entertained, not influenced, so I'm not getting any brainwashing messages from this show. To me it's about interactions and relationships between a lot of very different people with different viewpoints, but that's where the genius of the show is...it's entertaining, which it would discontinue being if I felt like I needed to pick it apart and see agendas hidden in it each week. I guess blissful ignorance is my favorite way to enjoy tv shows.

Ok, that's all. "We now return you to your previously scheduled dissection." ;)

Well said! :up:

The show is beautifully crafted, and the attention to detail about the workings of network broadcasting is compelling. This is a fictional show that deals with adult characters and complex ideas. It seems some prefer the majority of TV fare with cartoon-characters and comic-book stories that will make no waves. Let's leave the few adult programs alone -- they won't last long anyway...

;)

[Gunnyman]

I've just gotta ask...doesn't anyone watch tv for entertainment anymore? :confused:

I'm apparently in the minority here (please don't read this as my being stupid or ignorant, which could be the case, lol), but I honestly haven't even noticed politics or any other form of bias in this show. I'm watching to be entertained, not influenced, so I'm not getting any brainwashing messages from this show. To me it's about interactions and relationships between a lot of very different people with different viewpoints, but that's where the genius of the show is...it's entertaining, which it would discontinue being if I felt like I needed to pick it apart and see agendas hidden in it each week. I guess blissful ignorance is my favorite way to enjoy tv shows.

Ok, that's all. "We now return you to your previously scheduled dissection." ;)

I agree totally with what you've said here. I don't watch network TV to be indoctrinated, just entertained.

[Lee L]

You know, I stopped watching West Wing the last couple of years because the politics got to be too much for me. I really don't think Studio 60 is bad at all. IMO, the extreme wackos and their silly campaigns to control what we watch on TV with their being "offended" by things they never even saw in the first place deserve to be made fun of.

[Marco]

Conan in fact went to harvard.
Al Jean one of the bigwigs on The Simpsons went to Harvard.

Yup. Quite a few young writers got started at The Harvard Lampoon.

[DevdogAZ]

< hijack >
<pet peeve> Irregardless. </pet peeve>

LOL! Oh, how I hate this word! I have a co-worker that uses it in formal documentation all the time, and it drives me crazy. I can live with it here, where we're all casual and breezy (the very epitome of "informal"), but it seems I can't escape being reminded of my co-worker! :o
< /hijack >
Thank you. You saved me the effort. ;)

[DevdogAZ]

http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=50417

A REPORT BY A FOXNEWS.COM columnist that NBC's heavily promoted "Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip" would be dropped from the schedule created a frisson Monday, but appears to be premature.


An NBC representative said in an email the show hasn't been cancelled. The rep wrote: "It is profitable at this point." In fact, the network has ordered three more episodes of the show.

"Studio 60" is scheduled to air next Monday in its usual 10 p.m. slot, although a boffo performance by "Friday Night Lights" in the slot last night--where it was placed for a trial run--could potentially change things. But a more likely scenario would be a time-period change for "Studio 60"--not a retirement--a source said.
Hopefully they'll at least stick with it for awhile.

[cherry ghost]

http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=50417


Hopefully they'll at least stick with it for awhile.


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4533568&&#post4533568

[Lee L]

Ordering 3 more episodes is not exactly a major comittment. That statement would be a lot less hollow if they had ordered 13 more to finish out the season, IMO.

[DevdogAZ]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4533568&&#post4533568
My bad. I never clicked on that link because I thought it was just about the denials on Entertainment Tonight.

I would be nice if when people posted a link to something, they'd also at least post a the main details of what's at the link. I know we're not supposed to post entire articles, but quotes and snippets are OK.