Get out yer tinfoil hats - are 6.3 problems purposeful?

[ravedog]

What if... i mean just what if the 6.3a issues with audio and some of the other reported issues (lost episodes, lost, as in missing, and truncated shows) are just part of a larger plan to kill off the Tivo units quickly? Ok, take off your tinfoil hats for a moment and forget the conspiracy issue, but lets look at what's generally wrong with what DirecTV has done to it's VALUED customers:

A Product without an Audience.
No one asked for the new DVR's. I don't know anyone who likes them (tolerate, perhaps). No one listened to the consumer when it came to the new product. I am less apt to believe this has ANYTHING to do with fees and deals with Tivo and more likely to believe that building a DVR in house (or partnering up with one of Rupert's other companies, NDS, that conveniently makes DVR's).

It's all about the financial bottom line and nothing to do with customer service. But correct me if I'm wrong, I'm PAYING EXTRA already for the Tivo service with my DirecTV and i CHOSE to do so because i LIKE the product. Given the CHOICE, I'd do so every time.

Planned Obsoletion.
There's a reason I spent $1000 for my Tivo from Best Buy 19 moths ago: HD & Tivo. Now I'm being told that future programming and locals will need the new box (MPEG4) and god help me if my box meets an early demise. If that were to occur, DirecTV will happily replace it with not what I purchased (which i was led to believe from my coverage), but with this new POS. Sure it's a replacement, but if I sold TV's, I could switch out your Pioneer Elite Plasma with a Sanjoo 9" B&W CRT as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe in this country that manufacturers are supposed to keep parts for repair up to 7 years after EOL on a product line. The new DVR's are not a replacement part. I can still get my first gen Apple iPod fixed if i wanted to. Funny how DirecTV NEVER makes repairs. Show me another industry or product line that forces you to actually abandon your old product and get the new one (and before you mention computers, you can still go out and buy and old computer and run Windows 98 and your old software if you WANT... you just might not be able to run the new stuff.)

Bad Corporate Citizenship.
DirecTV and Newscorp, its parent company, have to answer to their stockholders. But it is we that keep the stockholders happy. Without customers there is no company, and there are no stockholders. Their blatant ignorance of customer wishes from supporting the Tivo based DVR to downright (what I would call) fraud (the switch of equipment without options), has left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Forced updates.
I'm not EVEN going to go into how the updates are (for the most part) forced. Let's say that 6.3a is causing issues. Well like a good little customer, I had my box plugged into the phone line and was I asked to update the unit? Nope. It did so all by itself. And now, I'm experiencing a host of problems. And I didn't have a choice. And they are "working on it" according to another thread. At least on Windows or my Mac I can tell the OS not to update until I'm ready. Let the brave early adopters weather the update first. (Please don't remind me of how i should unplug the phone line... that's the whole point: we shouldn't HAVE to live in fear).

Is the grass greener?
"So switch if you don't like the scenery." I actually considered the Series 3 and Cox cable, and in a phrase: NFL Sunday Ticket... another monopoly of the Rupert empire until 2011. So it's football or Cox. I'm trapped.

I wish someone with a legal background (or a good PR background) would approach these issues and take a good hard look to see if there is ANYTHING that DirecTV is doing to its Tivo base that can be reversed.... or at least force them to continue support of the product past EOL. And change the software so it ASKS you if you want to update your unit. Even if there were no more releases past 6.3a, the unit still works the way it is. It's just going to break one day and I dread that day.

[Lee L]

A plan to alienate customers that probably have bills that are double the average DirecTV bill and who are generally early adpoters and tech leaders, recommending products and services to people they know? I seriously doubt they are that stupid.

More likely, they just cut corners on QA and missed some stuff.

[CessnaDriver]

A plan to alienate customers that probably have bills that are double the average DirecTV bill and who are generally early adpoters and tech leaders, recommending products and services to people they know? I seriously doubt they are that stupid.

More likely, they just cut corners on QA and missed some stuff.

I agree. They probably weren't very motivated to even get 6.3 out to us, it doesn't increase revenue at all. They probably just got tired of the complaining.

I'm betting they didn't put their heart into 6.3 and cut some corners.

[DLR]

A plan to alienate customers that probably have bills that are double the average DirecTV bill and who are generally early adpoters and tech leaders, recommending products and services to people they know? I seriously doubt they are that stupid.

More likely, they just cut corners on QA and missed some stuff.
I don't know if DTV wants to "alienate" customers, but I could see them cutting corners on the QA of a product they really wish would go away. What better way to get HD Tivo users to consider switching to the new box. With the new box they won't have to give anyone (Tivo) a cut of the monthly service charge. That give's DTV million of reason$ to get us to make the move!

[ShiningBengal]

What if... i mean just what if the 6.3a issues with audio and some of the other reported issues (lost episodes, lost, as in missing, and truncated shows) are just part of a larger plan to kill off the Tivo units quickly? Ok, take off your tinfoil hats for a moment and forget the conspiracy issue, but lets look at what's generally wrong with what DirecTV has done to it's VALUED customers:

A Product without an Audience.
No one asked for the new DVR's. I don't know anyone who likes them (tolerate, perhaps). No one listened to the consumer when it came to the new product. I am less apt to believe this has ANYTHING to do with fees and deals with Tivo and more likely to believe that building a DVR in house (or partnering up with one of Rupert's other companies, NDS, that conveniently makes DVR's).

It's all about the financial bottom line and nothing to do with customer service. But correct me if I'm wrong, I'm PAYING EXTRA already for the Tivo service with my DirecTV and i CHOSE to do so because i LIKE the product. Given the CHOICE, I'd do so every time.

Planned Obsoletion.
There's a reason I spent $1000 for my Tivo from Best Buy 19 moths ago: HD & Tivo. Now I'm being told that future programming and locals will need the new box (MPEG4) and god help me if my box meets an early demise. If that were to occur, DirecTV will happily replace it with not what I purchased (which i was led to believe from my coverage), but with this new POS. Sure it's a replacement, but if I sold TV's, I could switch out your Pioneer Elite Plasma with a Sanjoo 9" B&W CRT as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe in this country that manufacturers are supposed to keep parts for repair up to 7 years after EOL on a product line. The new DVR's are not a replacement part. I can still get my first gen Apple iPod fixed if i wanted to. Funny how DirecTV NEVER makes repairs. Show me another industry or product line that forces you to actually abandon your old product and get the new one (and before you mention computers, you can still go out and buy and old computer and run Windows 98 and your old software if you WANT... you just might not be able to run the new stuff.)

Bad Corporate Citizenship.
DirecTV and Newscorp, its parent company, have to answer to their stockholders. But it is we that keep the stockholders happy. Without customers there is no company, and there are no stockholders. Their blatant ignorance of customer wishes from supporting the Tivo based DVR to downright (what I would call) fraud (the switch of equipment without options), has left me with a bad taste in my mouth.

Forced updates.
I'm not EVEN going to go into how the updates are (for the most part) forced. Let's say that 6.3a is causing issues. Well like a good little customer, I had my box plugged into the phone line and was I asked to update the unit? Nope. It did so all by itself. And now, I'm experiencing a host of problems. And I didn't have a choice. And they are "working on it" according to another thread. At least on Windows or my Mac I can tell the OS not to update until I'm ready. Let the brave early adopters weather the update first. (Please don't remind me of how i should unplug the phone line... that's the whole point: we shouldn't HAVE to live in fear).

Is the grass greener?
"So switch if you don't like the scenery." I actually considered the Series 3 and Cox cable, and in a phrase: NFL Sunday Ticket... another monopoly of the Rupert empire until 2011. So it's football or Cox. I'm trapped.

I wish someone with a legal background (or a good PR background) would approach these issues and take a good hard look to see if there is ANYTHING that DirecTV is doing to its Tivo base that can be reversed.... or at least force them to continue support of the product past EOL. And change the software so it ASKS you if you want to update your unit. Even if there were no more releases past 6.3a, the unit still works the way it is. It's just going to break one day and I dread that day.

A legal cure to every ill. The lawyers in this country will love it! Only problem is, there ISN'T a legal cure for every problem. In fact, not for most problems, and particularly not for trivial ones like this "supposed" problem.

Electronic goods don't have a particularly long service life--not because they are unreliable, but because they become obsolete. If you want non-obsolute consumer goods, stick to buying groceries, clothing, and furniture.

As far as "fixing" dead, out of warranty goods, who says you have to use DirecTV's repair services? There are many, many shops that can do this, and things like bad HDD's (probably the most frequent problem) is very easy and very cheap.

There is a reason DirecTV went to MPEG 4 encoding. It is the only way they can compete with cable. It wasn't optional. They are not leaving HR10-250 owners out in left field. Their exchange policy is very fair. And it really is a non issue for people who have OTA (let's not cloud this discussion with the 6.3 upgrade which currently is a work-in-progress) who won't need to add MPEG 4 capability for at least a couple of years, if ever.

The HR20 has problems, just like all of DirecTV's DVR competition--even the much vaunted Series 3 TiVo. They will be fixed. No, the HR20 will never be a TiVo. But I don't have to stay with DirecTV if other alternatives come up that I think make it worth while to switch.

There are SO many worthwhile things to be concerned about. TiVo, while nice, doesn't contribute noticeably to my quality of life. Things change. Get used to it.

[reh523]

The most important customer for D*TV is the shareholders period! That is not a D*TV issue it is a corporate issue. Build a bridge (get over it). It is all about balance, take care of your customers (to a point) so you can take care of the shareholders.

You bought something 19 moths ago (I think you meant months) for a thousand dollars, that wont work with MPEG 4.

Okay the PC I bought two years ago and it won't work with Vista... should I go crying to Dell about how they did me wrong?

[Fish Man]

Not deliberate, not a conspiracy.

But, as others have expressed...

To DirecTV this is an obsolete product.

The software writers at TiVo were writing this software for DirecTV, a company who has dumped them and screwed them over.

There can be no doubt that under the circumstances they weren't exactly motivated to do their best work!

[Eddie501]

I began to wonder this same thing after having Survivor deleted before it even recorded last night & Ugly Betty recording only 9 minutes. My previously perfectly functioning Tivo has now become so unreliable that if there's something I don't want to miss, I watch it live.

Just why did they roll out an extremely buggy version of 6.3 right around the same time the HR20 became available?

It's gotten so bad that like the OP, I've been considering alternatives. The HR20 or DirecTV is not one of them.

[bwaldron]

A plan to alienate customers that probably have bills that are double the average DirecTV bill and who are generally early adpoters and tech leaders, recommending products and services to people they know? I seriously doubt they are that stupid.

More likely, they just cut corners on QA and missed some stuff.

Agreed on both counts. Neither DirecTV or Tivo want to intentionally upset their best customers. It doesn't exonerate them from poor testing of this upgrade, but conspiracy talk is just nuts. If you alienate customers, they are more likely to look elsewhere for service.

I'd recommend people learn to backup (and restore) their Tivo drive, just like they do any computer. Problems can happen--disks go bad and, yes, upgrades can cause problems. If you haven't backed up in the past, and the upgrade is causing you more problems than it is worth, do the InstantCake thing to revert, and pull the phone line.

And yeah, take off the tinfoil hats :)

[Da Goon]

Forget about the tinfoil hats. Calm down.
It's just TV

[primetime73]

[QUOTE=ravedog]What if... i mean just what if the 6.3a issues with audio and some of the other reported issues (lost episodes, lost, as in missing, and truncated shows) are just part of a larger plan to kill off the Tivo units quickly? Ok, take off your tinfoil hats for a moment and forget the conspiracy issue, but lets look at what's generally wrong with what DirecTV has done to it's VALUED customers:

A Product without an Audience.
No one asked for the new DVR's. I don't know anyone who likes them (tolerate, perhaps). No one listened to the consumer when it came to the new product. I am less apt to believe this has ANYTHING to do with fees and deals with Tivo and more likely to believe that building a DVR in house (or partnering up with one of Rupert's other companies, NDS, that conveniently makes DVR's).








I know this will be seen as blasphemy on this site but there are number of people who don't care enough about Tivo vs. other DVR's to make a switch or stay because of anything to do with Tivo. I have two of the HR10's and I am generally happy with them, but I will most likely be content with the new HR20 as well and I will be getting one soon (just waiting for the OTA locals to be turned on).

I want my DVR to record Season passes reliably that is pretty much it and the HR20 will accoplish that feat. Friends that have it have had no problems. Sure I read about a missed recording here and there but my Tivo has missed a recording here or there as well, being an early adopter means dealing with bugs. I don't use wishlists and have suggestions turned off so those features are useless to me. I can figure out a new interface and frankly once the SP's are set up how much interface use is there really for most users? I hit play list or my vod and pick what I want to watch and go, pretty simple. The millions of new DVR users that have never used Tivo won't even have to learn a new interface and gasp may even not like the Tivo interface if choosing that platform was presented down the road.

I think the audio dropouts on the 6.3 are a bug not a conspiracy. In fact, I think the dropouts are probably the fault of Tivo's programmers and not D* since D* is really just a distributor. I know people on this site don't like to hear that Tivo is fallable but they are not perfect. Tivo makes a good DVR but the competition is catching up and the differences are only going to get smaller.

[bwaldron]

I want my DVR to record Season passes reliably that is pretty much it and the HR20 will accoplish that feat.

Well, reading the dbstalk forum, there are still many folks whose HR20's are not accomplishing that. Glad yours is working for you, though.

Many of us here are not Tivo fanatics. We will use what works best for us.

[ShiningBengal]

Not deliberate, not a conspiracy.

But, as others have expressed...

To DirecTV this is an obsolete product.

The software writers at TiVo were writing this software for DirecTV, a company who has dumped them and screwed them over.

There can be no doubt that under the circumstances they weren't exactly motivated to do their best work!

Perhaps the HR10-250 is obsolete, as you say, to DirecTV. However, the DirecTV customers are not obsolete. Missed future revenue cannot be replaced, and DirecTV know this.

I don't think DirecTV screwed anyone over. They are behaving as a business must. They need to control costs, and control their own technology. That is a smart thing to do, even if there are some bumps along the way. DirecTV is fulfilling their contractural obligation to TiVo, and most likely the reverse is equally true.

TiVo has no wish for their name to be associated with a lackluster or buggy product. How many potential buyers of the Series 3 will be motivated to buy a product designed by a company who is perceived not to stand behind its software?

[primetime73]

Bwaldron, I think we agree that people will use what works best for them. I was just trying to remind people that although Tivo is good, many people find it to be just another box on the entertainment center or just an easier to use VCR who don't care if it Tivo, Sony, Motorola, NDS, Scientific Atlanta etc. just so it works for them.

I have read the dbstalk forums and there are many people who have had probems with the HR20 but I often wonder how many would be upset with anything that isn't branded Tivo and also how many people haven't had problems. Most people only feel the urge to post if they have a problem. I think we would all get bored reading post after post of, "I set up my DVR to record Lost and it did."

[bwaldron]

Bwaldron, I think we agree that people will use what works best for them. I was just trying to remind people that although Tivo is good, many people find it to be just another box on the entertainment center or just an easier to use VCR who don't care if it Tivo, Sony, Motorola, NDS, Scientific Atlanta etc. just so it works for them.

I have read the dbstalk forums and there are many people who have had probems with the HR20 but I often wonder how many would be upset with anything that isn't branded Tivo and also how many people haven't had problems. Most people only feel the urge to post if they have a problem. I think we would all get bored reading post after post of, "I set up my DVR to record Lost and it did."

No argument, really. People want to use what works for them. And certainly posters on a message board are a small subset of owners, and problem reports tend to predominate.

Given that D* made a decision to drop Tivo, though, they have set a high standard themselves. It's only logical that those being forced to switch to a new DVR (at whatever point they want MPEG4 programming) will not want to lose functionality or reliability, and will compare it to Tivo. The Tivo interface works (not saying that there isn't room for improvement) and the HR10 has been reliable for most people (at least until 6.3!).

Folks that have never used a DVR before will be happy w/ the HR20 if it is reliable for them. Heck, I know folks that are happy with their cable DVR's which have pretty horrible functionality.

Some folks have the Tivo "religion" and will not be happy with the HR20 regardless of its features. If they can afford the S3, D* will lose many of them to cable or FIOS. But most of us, I think, want something that works reliably and don't want to lose features in the process. If we do, we'd better get some new and different features in the deal.

I think the HR20 shows promise, and I'm certainly not dead-set against using one in the future. Given that I get locals fine OTA, there's no need for me to decide now.