Charged for outlets PER cable card?

[roundsjr]

Is anyone else out there getting charged for "additional outlets" for each cable card they have??? My cable company gave me 4 cable cards. Even though it's only TWO outlets being used, they are charging me for FOUR !! Anyone else? What a rip!

[moyekj]

Yes, it seems the charges vary greatly for different cable companies and even among different markets of the same cable company.

I'm with Cox, Orange County, CA. I decided to keep the cable co. DVR for now so I'm getting charged for 2 "additional outlets" and 2 cablecard fees. Since the "additional outlet" fee is only $1.59 I didn't want to make a stink about it right now. At some point soon I will be returning the cable co. DVR at which point I may try to convince them there will be only 1 digital outlet in which case I should not get charged for any additional outlet fees at that point.

I think most cable co. billing structures are currently based on the assumption that CableCards go into individual TV slots and hence it made sense to charge an outlet fee per Cablecard. With some reasoning with a CSR you may be able to convince them that the S3 is a single device taking only 1 outlet and hence only subject to at most 1 additional outlet fee.

[Dan203]

Some people have been able to convince the cable company to remove the additional outlet charge for the second CableCARD after explaining how the TiVo works. However otehrs have also tried and been denied.

Dan

[stahta01]

When the multi stream card is out, does anyone think it will solve this problem? Or will they charge more for a multi stream card?

Edit: This assumes that the Series 3 will use multi stream cards soon after the become common.

Tim S

[Georgia Guy]

Comcast says they are going to charge me $6.99 per month, PER card.

[gastrof]

Comcast says they are going to charge me $6.99 per month, PER card.

How much would they be charging you per unit if you were just using a digital cable box?

[Georgia Guy]

How much would they be charging you per unit if you were just using a digital cable box?
Not sure....they are presently charging me 9.95 for my "DVR Service/HDTV Ready" box (6412), and 5.99 for "Digital Service A/O" (older digital box for my S2 to control), and 1.99 for "addressable Up/Dn Fee", 3.25 for my "channel guide", and 73.99 for my "Digital Silver Package". Kinda adds up fast.

They say when I return the 6412 I'll save 9.95 there, but will still have to pay $6.99 each for the cc's.

[wdave]

I'm one of those who failed to convince. Conversation went something like this:

Me: I added two cable cards to my account for one outlet, but am being charged twice.
Them: That's correct. There's a charge for each cable card.
Me: But they are going into the same device. Your charge is supposed to be an *outlet* charge.
Them: Is this for the new Tivo?
Me: Yes.
Them: You have two cards. So you have two charges.
Me: How many outlet charges do you charge for your dual tuner DVR?
Them: One
Me: Then I should only be charged one outlet charge for *my* dual tuner DVR.
Them: But you need two cards for yours. So there are two charges.
Me (giving up, switching gears): Verizon will soon be offering Fios in my area, and you (Comcast) are not price competitive with Verizon. Do you have any price breaks you can offer me that would allow me to stay with Comcast instead of switching?
Them: We can reduce your internet cost to our new 6 month promotional price, saving you $20/mo.
Me: Ok, do that. Thanks, bye.

I'll be switching to Verizon Fios as soon as it's available. I hate Comcast.

[classicsat]

They made a mistake calling it an "outlet fee", in that they never envisioned dual tuner/cablecard devices that plug into one coax outlet. The reality is the fee is (and should be called, to avoid confusion), a device access fee, as you probably have to pay to have each cablecard authorised to access the cable network.

As for multistream cards, there will only be one device access fee, as there is only one device to authorise.

[pkscout]

They made a mistake calling it an "outlet fee", in that they never envisioned dual tuner/cablecard devices that plug into one coax outlet. The reality is the fee is (and should be called, to avoid confusion), a device access fee, as you probably have to pay to have each cablecard authorised to access the cable network.

As for multistream cards, there will only be one device access fee, as there is only one device to authorise.

Fine. Then they should be charging twice for their own DVR, as it has two "devices" (i.e. tuners) accessing the system. I'm moving to Vegas in January and will get an S3 then. If Cox attempts to charge me twice for my S3 I will explain to them that it is one device just like the Cox DVR is one device. If they decline to accept that arguement I will inform the FCC, the local franchise authority, and my new congressional and senate reps. If I'm feeling particularly nasty I will also file an antitrust complaint with the Department of Justice.

The other solution is for the cable companies to get off their collective asses and get the multistream cards in so we can use those instead. It'll make for an easier install and prevent this confusion.

[Sy-]

You should consider yourselves lucky that you are only being charged an outlet charge. We have to pay $3.10 for each cable card, then the outlet charge to the second card $8.00, then (This is the best one :rolleyes: ) we have to buy the HD entertainment package for EACH cable card or set top box at $6.95 a pop.

~Sy

[cassiusdrow]

My cable company (Patriot Media - a small 31 town company in NJ) is charging me a $1 rental fee, a $2 additional outlet fee, and a $2 charge for HD Plus tier (non-OTA, non-Premium - INHD, HDNET, TNTHD, etc.) for each card. So two cable cards costs $10 total, which isn't all that bad compared to some of you, but the two outlet charges for one device does bother me.

It doesn't even pay for me to return my HD cablebox, because one box is free with the digital packages.

[Stanley Rohner]

I'm sure glad I don't deal with crap like this with DIRECTV.:)

[pkscout]

I'm sure glad I don't deal with crap like this with DIRECTV.:)

Yea. The HR20 is so much less sucky for DirecTV customers. ;)

I have come to the point in my life that I believe every company is out to screw me. My only choice is which company I think will screw me the least. Or at least one that will buy my dinner before they screw me. That would be OK too.

[moyekj]

I'm sure glad I don't deal with crap like this with DIRECTV.:) Hope you are enjoying your HDLite...

[MichaelK]

They made a mistake calling it an "outlet fee", in that they never envisioned dual tuner/cablecard devices that plug into one coax outlet. The reality is the fee is (and should be called, to avoid confusion), a device access fee, as you probably have to pay to have each cablecard authorised to access the cable network.

As for multistream cards, there will only be one device access fee, as there is only one device to authorise.

someone else might already have posted this but i believe the wording is the FCC's and that's where it came from .

[MichaelK]

My cable company (Patriot Media - a small 31 town company in NJ) is charging me a $1 rental fee, a $2 additional outlet fee, and a $2 charge for HD Plus tier (non-OTA, non-Premium - INHD, HDNET, TNTHD, etc.) for each card. So two cable cards costs $10 total, which isn't all that bad compared to some of you, but the two outlet charges for one device does bother me.

It doesn't even pay for me to return my HD cablebox, because one box is free with the digital packages.


you;ll save the $2 outlet fee on the HD box. And I'm told that they will "deduct a percentage or somethign" for giving the box back. I handed back my SD box tueday- I'll let you know what next months bill really says-LOL

[MichaelK]

I'm sure glad I don't deal with crap like this with DIRECTV.:)

it's very similar actually-

how much do you pay for an extra reciver again?

It's cheaper for sure- but they get you for "mirror" fees? Looks like cable picked up a nasty habit from DBS for once- usually it's the other way around.

[cassiusdrow]

you;ll save the $2 outlet fee on the HD box. And I'm told that they will "deduct a percentage or somethign" for giving the box back. I handed back my SD box tueday- I'll let you know what next months bill really says-LOL

The HD box is controlled by my Pioneer TiVo, so it isn't going back anyway.

After they added the cablecards, they also added a $9.95 PVR fee to the HD box. I had to call them and tell them to remove the fee as I never use the PVR in their box and I won't pay for it. Definitely go over your bill carefully when you get it.

[MichaelK]

foujnd it- the FCC calls it "addtional connection charges"

47cfr76.923
http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/09nov20051500/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/octqtr/47cfr76.923.htm

that regulation basically says they need to charge a price based upon what it really costs them. It is not supposed to be a profit center.

But it's all kinds of FCC speak so it's not so crystal clear.

It could be that the costs for an addtional outlet are the splitter and 30 foot of wiring to get there and then prorate that over 10 years. But some how I think that's not what they are talking about since it would come out to like 10 cents an outlet. it references another reg about how they are supposed to do their accounting, and without diggin into that I'd bet that they are allowed to charge for a fraction of thier head end equipment on the additonal outlets.

I guess they could make the argument that since the head end must keep 2 cards in it's database and send out 2 sets of signals that 2 fees are in order. And that their own DVR's only get one auth signal so that's how they charge for 1. If that's the case then Tivo needs to get the ball rolling on the M-card certification so we can all demand m-cards and be done with this.

Inetersting is that the reg in the link above also says they can charge to recoup any additonal programmign charges per outlet. So I am guessing the HD content contracts are per outlet and not per household like analog rates. So that might explain why there are HD 'mirriring fees' beeing charged also.

[MichaelK]

The HD box is controlled by my Pioneer TiVo, so it isn't going back anyway.

After they added the cablecards, they also added a $9.95 PVR fee to the HD box. I had to call them and tell them to remove the fee as I never use the PVR in their box and I won't pay for it. Definitely go over your bill carefully when you get it.

so funny about the PVR fee. Seems they have just one "advanced box" that does HD or DVR (hd or SD). When I got installed last month i specifically told them no DVR as I too was hooking the HD box to an S2. The guy gave me the one box- and i noticed it had DVR features- i played for 10 minutes but it was so bad i threw the remote in a drawer and let tivo handle it all. But my first bill and all the paperwork just said HDconverter. I figured it they could turn the DVR function on and off with a hit and they must have.

Then i get my next bill and they started callign it an HDPVR and charging me the PVR fee (6.95 for me) the same day they installed my cablecards in the S3. Probably whoever "hit" my cards so the seriel number on my account was a pvr and changed it.

So I call to complain and the guy tells me it happens all the time since they look alike and the installers might also run out of non-pvr so they give you pvr. They dont stock plain HD boxes at the office so they actually had to send a guy out tuesday to take away the HD PVR and hand me an HD only box- he said the only differnce was this one had no drive and from the menu's he might be right it's really similar. I gave back my SD box at the time too- I realized that one s2 with access to digital channels was fine becasue of MRV- so i just put the cable directly into my pioneer s2 DVD. (more realiable channel changes i figure plus at least 2 bucks off a month for one less 'addtional connection" fee.)

[AbMagFab]

Comcast should be charging you zero for the CC's. I'm paying nothing - no monthly fee for the card, no outlet fee.

[btwyx]

Comcast was doing this to me, and I was going to argue vociferously about it, when Comcast around here decided to charge $1-50 for the second card, no exra outlet. I had to talk to customer service, and point out they printed this policy on their bill to get them to change it.

[Steve_Martin]

Yes, it seems the charges vary greatly for different cable companies and even among different markets of the same cable company.

I'm with Cox, Orange County, CA. I decided to keep the cable co. DVR for now so I'm getting charged for 2 "additional outlets" and 2 cablecard fees. Since the "additional outlet" fee is only $1.59 I didn't want to make a stink about it right now. At some point soon I will be returning the cable co. DVR at which point I may try to convince them there will be only 1 digital outlet in which case I should not get charged for any additional outlet fees at that point.

I think most cable co. billing structures are currently based on the assumption that CableCards go into individual TV slots and hence it made sense to charge an outlet fee per Cablecard. With some reasoning with a CSR you may be able to convince them that the S3 is a single device taking only 1 outlet and hence only subject to at most 1 additional outlet fee.

I'm with Cox in OC too. I'm getting charged $2 or so for a cablecard, $5 or so for digital box rental, and $15 or so for 2 digital subscriptions. I hadn't realized I was getting 2 digital charges.

[Stanley Rohner]

Hope you are enjoying your HDLite...

There's nothing wrong with the HDTV quality I'm receiving from DIRECTV I don't know what all this HDLite crap is about.
:rolleyes:

Hope you are enjoying having paid $800 for a Series3 and having to pay $12.95/month to TiVo just to use it.

[tivotivotivo]

Hello.

I just spoke to Time Warner Cable (West LA) since I am looking to buy a Tivo HD and its going to $1.75 for the first Cable card and $4.50 for the 2nd to fill my future Tivo.

about $6.

FYI.

[Stanley Rohner]

Yea. The HR20 is so much less sucky for DirecTV customers. ;)

I have come to the point in my life that I believe every company is out to screw me. My only choice is which company I think will screw me the least. Or at least one that will buy my dinner before they screw me. That would be OK too.

Yea. I don't have any problems. It was nice not having to schedule an appointment for some cabletv tech. to come out and argue with me about cablecards. I bought the stuff, installed it on my own, and am enjoying it.

[AbMagFab]

There's nothing wrong with the HDTV quality I'm receiving from DIRECTV I don't know what all this HDLite crap is about.
:rolleyes:

Hope you are enjoying having paid $800 for a Series3 and having to pay $12.95/month to TiVo just to use it.

Then you either have a crappy 720p HDTV, or bad eyes, or are sitting too far away, or simply don't care about the HD quality.

They reduce their HD by about 30%. And it visibly much worse than full HD.

Right now, and for a couple more weeks, I have Comcast and DirecTV. Flipping back and forth on the same 1080p TV makes it sooo clear the quality difference. Even my wife can see it, and she doesn't care about this stuff.

And yes, I'm very much enjoying it, thank you. And it's $6.95/month (I already had a S2), which is all of $1.95 more than I was paying DirecTV for the box.

If you care about HD quality and can afford it, there's really no other place to go but cable, and ideally FiOS when it's available.

Oh yeah, and I'm enjoying the twice as many HD channels, way more premium channels, more regular cable channels, and all for about $30 less per month. And the analog and digital SD channels all look better than the DirecTV SD equivelents (for the 75% or so DirecTV even has available). It's not even a contest.

And real Tivo software updated by Tivo, not waiting for DirecTV.

[Horrortaxi]

I've got 2 CableCARDS from Charter (Burbank, CA) and I'm paying $1.50 total. Might be an error, we'll see what it is next month--but so far I'm thinking it's nice to get a break going my way for a change.

[Stanley Rohner]

it's very similar actually-

how much do you pay for an extra reciver again?

It's cheaper for sure- but they get you for "mirror" fees? Looks like cable picked up a nasty habit from DBS for once- usually it's the other way around.


They don't get you for "mirror" fees.
I pay an extra $4.99/month for having an additional receiver, and about $4.99/month for the DVR charges. That's still about $3 less per month than the $12.95/month TiVo charges. If you throw the 3-10 bucks or whatever the cable company will charge you for each cablecard rental I think the Series3 is still costing you more to use every month.

[AbMagFab]

They don't get you for "mirror" fees.
I pay an extra $4.99/month for having an additional receiver, and about $4.99/month for the DVR charges. That's still about $3 less per month than the $12.95/month TiVo charges. If you throw the 3-10 bucks or whatever the cable company will charge you for each cablecard rental I think the Series3 is still costing you more to use every month.
Comcast is charging me $0 per month for the cable cards, and no outlet charge - nothing. I pay $5 for the SD cable box for my Dual Tuner Series 2's, and they work perfectly.

[Stanley Rohner]

Then you either have a crappy 720p HDTV, or bad eyes, or are sitting too far away, or simply don't care about the HD quality.

They reduce their HD by about 30%. And it visibly much worse than full HD.

Right now, and for a couple more weeks, I have Comcast and DirecTV. Flipping back and forth on the same 1080p TV makes it sooo clear the quality difference. Even my wife can see it, and she doesn't care about this stuff.

And yes, I'm very much enjoying it, thank you. And it's $6.95/month (I already had a S2), which is all of $1.95 more than I was paying DirecTV for the box.

If you care about HD quality and can afford it, there's really no other place to go but cable, and ideally FiOS when it's available.

Oh yeah, and I'm enjoying the twice as many HD channels, way more premium channels, more regular cable channels, and all for about $30 less per month. And the analog and digital SD channels all look better than the DirecTV SD equivelents (for the 75% or so DirecTV even has available). It's not even a contest.

And real Tivo software updated by Tivo, not waiting for DirecTV.

Whatever you say....

Twice as many HD channels, way more premium channels, more regular cable channels and all for $30 less per month.
You can't really be serious. DIRECTV has always been a better value when it comes to what you get for the money you pay. You're only paying $30 less per month because you're paying the 3 month, 6 month, or 1 year special new cableTV subscriber discount rate.

Go ahead and list out all these 2X more wonderful HD channels, way more premium channels, and more regular cable channels you're supposedly getting.
:rolleyes:

[samo]

Whatever you say....

Twice as many HD channels, way more premium channels, more regular cable channels and all for $30 less per month.
You can't really be serious. DIRECTV has always been a better value when it comes to what you get for the money you pay. You're only paying $30 less per month because you're paying the 3 month, 6 month, or 1 year special new cableTV subscriber discount rate.

Go ahead and list out all these 2X more wonderful HD channels, way more premium channels, and more regular cable channels you're supposedly getting.
:rolleyes:
Ab may have a point. It probably depends on a cable company offerings. I'm looking into getting HDTV in my area and out of the 3 choices I have (Dish, DTV or Comcast) - DTV has least amount of HD channels. Of course it doesn't matter much if you don't care about extra trash channels (Dish has some 15-20 extra HD channels, but I most likely will never watch them). I don't have a first hand experience with HD DVRs, but from reading the boards I'm getting a feeling that VIP 622 is a most stable HD DVR on a market now with HR20 being new kid on block but getting better every week and S3 being distant third with bugs and cable card problems.

[hookbill]

They don't get you for "mirror" fees.
I pay an extra $4.99/month for having an additional receiver, and about $4.99/month for the DVR charges. That's still about $3 less per month than the $12.95/month TiVo charges. If you throw the 3-10 bucks or whatever the cable company will charge you for each cablecard rental I think the Series3 is still costing you more to use every month.

Stanley, I can't believe that an established member of this forum would go around thread crapping whenever you get the chance. You've been doing it not only on this thread but others as well. You've been around a while, you should know better. You really need to stop this. If your happy with D* then fine. But don't try to make us look dumb for purchasing the S3.

About the quality of HD Lite on your previous comment. I can't say because I have not seen it I do know that people in my area are having a terrible problem with our ABC affiliate. I can also tell you this. The S3 provides the best quality of ANY dvr on the market. Expensive? Maybe. But it encodes HD and SD better then any other device out there. Take a look at reviews on the S3. With it's THX technology, it's top of the line.

I can't get D* where I live because I live in a wooded area but I'm very grateful for the S3. It allows me to finally enjoy HD the way it was meant to be.

[winpitt]

If you care about HD quality and can afford it, there's really no other place to go but cable, and ideally FiOS when it's available.



And real Tivo software updated by Tivo, not waiting for DirecTV.

Actually, if you care about HD quality and can get it, OTA has the absolute best. Cable quality depends on what system you're on, and where you are with respect to that system in their infrastructure. It varies HUGE!!!!

DirecTV in my area does have one advantage. They get Fox in HD where Comcast does not. That's about it. Except for the not paying $800 and worrying about cablecard thing.

[winpitt]

Stanley, I can't believe that an established member of this forum would go around thread crapping whenever you get the chance. You've been doing it not only on this thread but others as well. You've been around a while, you should know better. You really need to stop this. If your happy with D* then fine. But don't try to make us look dumb for purchasing the S3.

About the quality of HD Lite on your previous comment. I can't say because I have not seen it I do know that people in my area are having a terrible problem with our ABC affiliate. I can also tell you this. The S3 provides the best quality of ANY dvr on the market. Expensive? Maybe. But it encodes HD and SD better then any other device out there. Take a look at reviews on the S3. With it's THX technology, it's top of the line.

I can't get D* where I live because I live in a wooded area but I'm very grateful for the S3. It allows me to finally enjoy HD the way it was meant to be.

I honestly don't see it as "crapping whenever". He's got a valid point. Cable certainly has the most HD content right now (at least here) and the quality is OK. Cablecards are most certainly a pain with mixed results, and the cost issue is real. I agree that the S3 has great potential and mostly seems like a great device (though there are certainly bugs). I'm really glad it's finally here! But, the cost thing is a real issue and TiVo has done themselves no favors in that area.

BTW - the THX thing? Pretty much meaningless IMHO. You do realize that THX is not a "different technology" but really more of just a certification?

[MichaelK]

There's nothing wrong with the HDTV quality I'm receiving from DIRECTV I don't know what all this HDLite crap is about.
:rolleyes:

Hope you are enjoying having paid $800 for a Series3 and having to pay $12.95/month to TiVo just to use it.


Stanley- If you want to come in the CABLE tivo forum and start a fight- I'm not sure your going to find sympathetic ears- but go right ahead.

But her's what I can tell you.

I never saw anythign wrong with directv's HD quality for the YEARS I had them. Search my name here and at AVS. I defended them all the time.

Ya know what- I got cabel HD and now that I have seen what HD really is I can only conclude that directv is sending DVD quality on the HD channels. Not only HD but SD is AMAZINGINGLY different. I never noticed blockiness on SD channels- But what I found with cable is there are a LOT more colors in real SD. Directv appears to be blanding everythign down with filters to make compression easier. Survivor on analog cable is so bright and vivid it's closer to a dvd then to directv SD. And thats going from analog to digital to analog through a tivo.

[MichaelK]

They don't get you for "mirror" fees.
I pay an extra $4.99/month for having an additional receiver, and about $4.99/month for the DVR charges. That's still about $3 less per month than the $12.95/month TiVo charges. If you throw the 3-10 bucks or whatever the cable company will charge you for each cablecard rental I think the Series3 is still costing you more to use every month.


stanly- the $4.95 extra per receiver is the Mirror fee.

Now I see you are talking about the additonal TiVO charges. I save so much with cable's triple play that I pay for 3 tivo DVR fees and STILL SAVE $10 a month over the ocst of directv/broadband/ and phone otherwise. ANd I get about twice as much HD channels from cable. And everythign at a much better quaility.

I think-
"though protests too much..."

obvioulsy every cable compnay is differnet- read all the threads here to see- but for some people cable kicks the crap out of directv in all ways.

[MichaelK]

Yea. I don't have any problems. It was nice not having to schedule an appointment for some cabletv tech. to come out and argue with me about cablecards. I bought the stuff, installed it on my own, and am enjoying it.


(man I'm hainvg fun with your reply's LOL)

ya- know when my cable compnay adds HD content- it will either just appear or I can call and have them hit my cards to add it.

How are you going to get new HD channels from directv?

Oppps- I forgot you need to call and have an installer come out and add a new larger dish for ka, change your multiswitch, rewire your OTA antenna directly to all your HD tv's instead of into the new multiswitch becasue it doesn't work like that anymore. And give you all new boxes- that YOU WONT OWN but might just have to pay a capital cost reduction for to lease (yup just like a BMW lease)

come one man- admit it- in some ways DBS is better. IN some ways cbale is better. There are no absolutes- in some places on or the other is better, in other places it's worse.

Oh- and the $10 savings I mentioned above is AFTER THE FIRST YEAR when the promotional pricing goes away. THe first year it's another $50 savings amonth. So first year savings is $720- oh imagine that- that's the street price for an S3 that I can OWN.

[MichaelK]

...

DirecTV in my area does have one advantage. They get Fox in HD where Comcast does not. That's about it. Except for the not paying $800 and worrying about cablecard thing.


at the expense of no PBS in HD which cable basically always has. And probably CW or MY in HD. But certainly the locl RSN's in HD.

[winpitt]

at the expense of no PBS in HD which cable basically always has. And probably CW or MY in HD. But certainly the locl RSN's in HD.

No question - I agree that in my area cable (with the exception of Fox) has way better HD content than does Directv. Of course personally I'm most interested in ABC, CBS, NBC, and FOX myself along with ESPN. I don't watch PBS much - even though it really does have some great quality content. Unfortunately not enough storage capacity for everything based on my schedule.

[Stanley Rohner]

(man I'm hainvg fun with your reply's LOL)

ya- know when my cable compnay adds HD content- it will either just appear or I can call and have them hit my cards to add it.

How are you going to get new HD channels from directv?

Oppps- I forgot you need to call and have an installer come out and add a new larger dish for ka, change your multiswitch, rewire your OTA antenna directly to all your HD tv's instead of into the new multiswitch becasue it doesn't work like that anymore. And give you all new boxes- that YOU WONT OWN but might just have to pay a capital cost reduction for to lease (yup just like a BMW lease)

come one man- admit it- in some ways DBS is better. IN some ways cbale is better. There are no absolutes- in some places on or the other is better, in other places it's worse.

Oh- and the $10 savings I mentioned above is AFTER THE FIRST YEAR when the promotional pricing goes away. THe first year it's another $50 savings amonth. So first year savings is $720- oh imagine that- that's the street price for an S3 that I can OWN.


(Man I'm having fun with your replies also, all those typos are great, LOL)
I just got the AT9 and HR20 HDTV DVR. I installed it all myself. It was easy. I don't have a multiswitch, the new dish has a multiswitch built into with 4 outputs right from the dish. 4 outputs was all I needed.

Paying $299 for the HR20 and paying a monthly leas fee, that's just like a BMW lease. WTF.
:rolleyes:

When new HD content becomes available from DIRECTV it will just appear one day I don't have to call and have customer service hit my cards.

[MichaelK]

(Man I'm having fun with your replies also, all those typos are great, LOL)
I just got the AT9 and HR20 HDTV DVR. I installed it all myself. It was easy. I don't have a multiswitch, the new dish has a multiswitch built into with 4 outputs right from the dish. 4 outputs was all I needed.

Paying $299 for the HR20 and paying a monthly leas fee, that's just like a BMW lease. WTF.
:rolleyes:

When new HD content becomes available from DIRECTV it will just appear one day I don't have to call and have customer service hit my cards.

yup- I'm a complete typing mess.

Well good for you then- but your case is not typical.

TO each his own. I'm glad for you that Directv is best and I wouldn't be so cocky as to dispute that. But on the flip side for many of use cable is a better choice and anyone reasonable can see that there would be cases like that.


I am curious about your rollyeyes? Are you saying that you can now Buy an HR20 to own? OR that you can lease it for no money down? I honestly haven't kept up on that becasue at the moment I'm not interested in directv as personally i find cable to be a better serivce FOR ME AT THE CURRENT MOMENT.

[classicsat]

Fine. Then they should be charging twice for their own DVR, as it has two "devices" (i.e. tuners) accessing the system.

You don't get it, they aren't charging for every tuner, they are charging for every device they have to enter into their authorisation system to access their programming. Their dual tuner DVR is one device. The two cablecards in the Series3 are two distinct devices that need to be induvidually authorised. The fact they are in one box using one cable connection is a red herring.

[MichaelK]

You don't get it, they aren't charging for every tuner, they are charging for every device they have to enter into their authorisation system to access their programming. Their dual tuner DVR is one device. The two cablecards in the Series3 are two distinct devices that need to be induvidually authorised. The fact they are in one box using one cable connection is a red herring.


I'm afraid that's how they figure it too. That's why you can add all the analog outlets you want- there is no need to fiddle with those at the head end...

[MichaelK]

so bring on the M-card certification...

[kbs]

As someone in a previous post stated, my new Comcast bill has a statement under my address stating their new policy:

Please note: Comcast will charge $1.50 per month for the second CableCARD for customers who require two CableCARDs for customer-owned digital video recorders ("DVRs").

They still had a second outlet charge of $6.95 on my bill, so I called and mentioned what was written on the bill, and said I had the new tivo, and they apparently changed it from the $6.95 outlet charge to the $1.50 second-card in a customer-owned PVR charge.

-kbs

[pkscout]

f
I guess they could make the argument that since the head end must keep 2 cards in it's database and send out 2 sets of signals that 2 fees are in order. And that their own DVR's only get one auth signal so that's how they charge for 1. If that's the case then Tivo needs to get the ball rolling on the M-card certification so we can all demand m-cards and be done with this.

I do not believe there is separate certification for the M-card. The Series 3 already supports it, and the various vendors have M-cards available. The only folks who need to get anything rolling are the cable monopolies. They need to get the M-cards in stock so that I only need one card. That will make the install easier and mean there is only one charge for the device.

[MichaelK]

As someone in a previous post stated, my new Comcast bill has a statement under my address stating their new policy:



They still had a second outlet charge of $6.95 on my bill, so I called and mentioned what was written on the bill, and said I had the new tivo, and they apparently changed it from the $6.95 outlet charge to the $1.50 second-card in a customer-owned PVR charge.

-kbs


sounds like they are updating their policy then to make more sense in regards to tivo.

So now you get 6.95 second outlet fee that includes Card 1 and HD programming PLUS a 1.50 for the scond card- Correct? So tivo sounds like it costs comcast subs an extra 1.50 now compared to getting an HD box from them?

(again ignoring PVR fees for the mement since that makes it even more nutty to figure)

[MichaelK]

I do not believe there is separate certification for the M-card. The Series 3 already supports it, and the various vendors have M-cards available. The only folks who need to get anything rolling are the cable monopolies. They need to get the M-cards in stock so that I only need one card. That will make the install easier and mean there is only one charge for the device.

I wish that were the case. I would just scream at my cable compnay that I want an M-card and it's there fault i have to s-cards so they shouldn't charge me the second set of fees.

But TiVopony specifcally posted in another thread that while the hardware in the S3 is built for M-cards. There is CURRENTLy no way to get a unidirectional device certified for M-card use. As such tivo cant enable their software to use them. If you put an M-card in a tivo currently it will default to s-card compatibility.


If you check out the latest NCTA status report to the FCC it sounds like M-cards are currently only allowed in OCAP devices.

[MichaelK]

from the ncta to the fcc 9/25/06

http://www.ncta.com/ContentView.aspx?hidenavlink=true&type=lpubtp5&contentId=3561

the Multistream CableCARD will operate in a backwards compatible, single-stream manner with a single stream device (e.g. in a unidirectional digital cable ready device) or in a multi-stream manner when paired with a multi-stream device (e.g. OCAP 2.0 devices)"

[MichaelK]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4402702&&#post4402702

Just getting caught up on many of the threads here, and need to take a moment to clarify something. DiscoBayJoe, I'll be sending you a PM as well.

There is currently no certification process for multi-stream cards (MCARD) in uni-directional devices such as the Series3. We are tracking the creation of the certification for this very closely and will work with CableLabs as this certification is finalized and becomes available. In the mean time, you will need two cable cards in your Series3 to enable dual tuner functionality (MCARDs in a uni-directional device act as SCARDs).

This is the first that we've seen an MCARD 'in the wild', they are generally not available. Please let your cable company know that if they only provide MCARDs, that for the time being you will need two for your Series3.

Cheers,
Pony

[btwyx]

Stanley, I can't believe that an established member of this forum would go around thread crapping whenever you get the chance. +1, I almost posted the same thing yesterday.

[classicsat]

someone else might already have posted this but i believe the wording is the FCC's and that's where it came from .
It could be, but it is simple facts I am putting forth.

[Dan203]

When new HD content becomes available from DIRECTV it will just appear one day I don't have to call and have customer service hit my cards.

Neither do we! My cable company added Universal HD the other day, and it just works. I didn't have to call or do anything.

Dan

[MichaelK]

It could be, but it is simple facts I am putting forth.

Sorry- wasn't trying to say that it's not a stupid chjoice of words, but I just wanted to point out that in this particular case it actually isn't the cable people that came up with the stupidity. We can all than the FCC for it.

[rodneyw1]

I now have two Series3's. My local Comcast office just called and said they had finally gotten official word from comcast on cablecard charges. (We've been arguing for a couple of weeks now) Tivo one. 1st card free, 2nd card $1.50 Tivo 2: 1st. card $6.95, 2nd card $6.95. I argued about the 2nd Tivo card charges to no avail. Anyone else have two Series3's or know about this??

[MichaelK]

sorry edited- i misunderstood- so the idiots are charging you a different rate for each tivo? TIme to email the president or someone at corporate mothership....

[hookbill]

I just got my bill. Everything was in order. My bill has gone down approximately 27.00 per month excluding the installation charge this month. No charge for "additional outlets." :)

[btwyx]

I now have two Series3's. My local Comcast office just called and said they had finally gotten official word from comcast on cablecard charges. (We've been arguing for a couple of weeks now) Tivo one. 1st card free, 2nd card $1.50 Tivo 2: 1st. card $6.95, 2nd card $6.95. I argued about the 2nd Tivo card charges to no avail. Anyone else have two Series3's or know about this??Take a look at your bill, you may be able to find it online. Mine had the note saying its $1-50 for the second card in a DVR. Once you point to their own words in their own writing its difficult for them not to do something about it.

If you area does the same as mine, I'd say your charges should be TiVo 1, 1st card included in digital package, 2nd card $1-50. TiVo 2, 1st card $6-95 (additional outlet), 2nd card $1-50.

[rodneyw1]

Take a look at your bill, you may be able to find it online. Mine had the note saying its $1-50 for the second card in a DVR. Once you point to their own words in their own writing its difficult for them not to do something about it.

If you area does the same as mine, I'd say your charges should be TiVo 1, 1st card included in digital package, 2nd card $1-50. TiVo 2, 1st card $6-95 (additional outlet), 2nd card $1-50.


My bill has nothing on it that says $1.50 for second card. I was originally told it would be just as you described. TiVo 2, 1st card $6.95 second $1.50. But, she also said they were still working it out and that was not final. Now they say this is final. I asked her, "So you are charging me $1.50 for the first TiVo and $13.90 for the second?" She said yes, that was from Comcast coporate.

[btwyx]

My bill has nothing on it that says $1.50 for second card.When was your latest bill? They only recently did this and its the bill I haven't yet received which says this. I looked it up on line.

[rodneyw1]

When was your latest bill? They only recently did this and its the bill I haven't yet received which says this. I looked it up on line.


My latest bill was dated 9/26/06 which was a week after I got the first TiVo but not the second one yet. I won't have a new one until late next week. The 9/26/06 bill has nothing about the $1.50 charge. I'll watch next week and see what comes up.

[btwyx]

Do you have online access? Its right there on the "View my Bill" page.

[jfh3]

Anyone have a copy of the corporate memo?

I'm getting charged $14.95 for three extra cards and being told that the first card is included in my digital package (no, I have no idea how they come up with $14.95). A manager did tell me that there should be no additional charge for the first Tivo and the second should be $6.95/month, but they can't figure out how to change the billing system to bill it that way.

[rodneyw1]

Do you have online access? Its right there on the "View my Bill" page.

Yes, but it still only shows my 9/26 bill as the latest bill. Noting else shows up except if I go into "recent activity" but it doesn't have any type or wording about the $1.50

[rodneyw1]

Do you have online access? Its right there on the "View my Bill" page.


This is what my online recent activity shows. I told them its such a mess I can't understand half of it.

Transaction Date Post Date Description Amount
--- --- FRANCHISE FEE $ 1.51
--- --- STATE AND LOCAL SALES TAX $ 0.59
--- --- CITY UTILITY TAX $ 1.02
10-10-06 10-10-06 DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 10/10 TO 11/07 $ 6.48
10-10-06 10-10-06 DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 10/10 TO 11/07 $ 6.48
10-09-06 10-09-06 TIVO DIGITAL ACCESS 10/09 TO 11/07 $ 1.45
10-10-06 10-09-06 DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET $ -0.93
10-09-06 10-09-06 DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 10/09 TO 11/07 $ -6.71
10-05-06 10-05-06 TIVO DIGITAL ACCESS 10/05 TO 11/07 $ -1.65
10-05-06 10-05-06 TIVO DIGITAL ACCESS 10/05 TO 11/07 $ -1.65
10-05-06 10-05-06 TIVO DIGITAL ACCESS 10/05 TO 11/07 $ 1.65
10-05-06 10-05-06 DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 10/05 TO 11/07 $ 7.64
10-04-06 10-04-06 TIVO DIGITAL ACCESS 10/04 TO 11/07 $ 1.69
10-04-06 10-04-06 INSTALL - ADD'L SERVICES $ 15.99
10-04-06 10-04-06 DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 10/04 TO 11/07 $ 7.86
10-03-06 10-03-06 TIVO DIGITAL ACCESS 09/27 TO 11/07 $ 2.08
10-03-06 10-03-06 DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 09/27 TO 11/07 $ -9.62
09-29-06 09-29-06 1-TIME EFT PAYMENT $ -212.42
09-27-06 09-27-06 DIGITAL ADDL OUTLET 09/27 TO 11/07 $ 9.62

[rtjones]

I was overcharged approx $24, and with about 20 min on the phone, was able to have Comcast credit me the overcharge. The gal that serviced said she did not know of the position of $0.00 for the first cc, and $1.50 for the second. Most of the 20 min was spent with me on hold while she confirmed that. All set!

[btwyx]

This is what my online recent activity shows. I told them its such a mess I can't understand half of it.That gets so messy I never understant it either, but you've gone past the View My Bill page. In the notes at the bottom I have:

Your Franchising Authority Is: City Of Mountain View 500 Castro St P.O. Box 7540 Mountain View, CA 94039 Ph: (650) 903-6301, Ca0906

Comcast will charge $1.50 per month for the second CableCARD for customers who require two CableCARDs for customer-owned digital video recorders ("DVRs"). For additional information, call 1-800-COMCAST.

Switch to Comcast Digital Voice today. <etc>

The cable card bit also appears on my 10/10 pdf bill. When I asked about the CSR called it the "TiVo" <something>, specifically he mentioned TiVo, I didn't.

[rodneyw1]

That gets so messy I never understant it either, but you've gone past the View My Bill page. In the notes at the bottom I have:

Your Franchising Authority Is: City Of Mountain View 500 Castro St P.O. Box 7540 Mountain View, CA 94039 Ph: (650) 903-6301, Ca0906

Comcast will charge $1.50 per month for the second CableCARD for customers who require two CableCARDs for customer-owned digital video recorders ("DVRs"). For additional information, call 1-800-COMCAST.

Switch to Comcast Digital Voice today. <etc>

The cable card bit also appears on my 10/10 pdf bill. When I asked about the CSR called it the "TiVo" <something>, specifically he mentioned TiVo, I didn't.

The following is from the bottom of the "View MY Bill" page which is still my 9/26/06 bill:

Your Franchise Authority Is: City Of Benicia, 250 East L Street, Benicia, CA 94510. FCC Id# Ca0015, 707-746-4200

Thank you for your prompt payment. DVR service may be subject to credit verification and deposit. We appreciate your business.

[moyekj]

What complicates things as well is the charges on the first bill are pro-rated based on number of days. It's much easier to see things once a full month of charges are in effect. Course by then it may be too late to dispute any charges...

[hiker]

The following is from the bottom of the "View MY Bill" page which is still my 9/26/06 bill:

Your Franchise Authority Is: City Of Benicia, 250 East L Street, Benicia, CA 94510. FCC Id# Ca0015, 707-746-4200

Thank you for your prompt payment. DVR service may be subject to credit verification and deposit. We appreciate your business.
You'll have to wait for your OCT bill to see the "Comcast will charge $1.50 per month for the second CableCARD..." since they just started adding that at around the start of this month.

[pkscout]

I wish that were the case. I would just scream at my cable compnay that I want an M-card and it's there fault i have to s-cards so they shouldn't charge me the second set of fees.

But TiVopony specifcally posted in another thread that while the hardware in the S3 is built for M-cards. There is CURRENTLy no way to get a unidirectional device certified for M-card use. As such tivo cant enable their software to use them. If you put an M-card in a tivo currently it will default to s-card compatibility.

Well crap. Yet another way CableLabs (the mouthpiece front organization for the cable cartel) is screwing the consumer. I bet the certification process is so screwed up that if TiVo used a different hard drive, power supply, or even a freakin' different SATA cable they'd have to get the whole thing certified again.

[Redux]

DIRECTV has always been a better value when it comes to what you get for the money you pay.They really were at one time and I think they really deserve credit for that. In the history of TV or whatever.

It's easy to kick somebody on the way down and out, and I've had some things to say about DirecTV, but you can't take away their accomplishment.

A real shame, what happened to them or what they did to themselves or whatever.

[MichaelK]

Well crap. Yet another way CableLabs (the mouthpiece front organization for the cable cartel) is screwing the consumer. I bet the certification process is so screwed up that if TiVo used a different hard drive, power supply, or even a freakin' different SATA cable they'd have to get the whole thing certified again.


Actaully I'm under the impression that once you get ceritifed for a particular spec/feature set then you are golden. I beleive your first item to the spec or with that feature set needs to get certified by cablelabs after that your are permitted to self-certify anything new you make using their test tools.

The problem is if you see their statement to the FCC is it looks like they have no intentions of even allowing M-card's to work in unidirectional devices. So there is no certification that TiVo can even get.

[cmaasfamily]

Got the first post-S3 cc install Comcast bill. No charge for cablecards themselves, but there were four charges ($5.99 ea.) for Digital Additional Outlets. The correct number is two. I have two TV's with cc's and the S3.

I called - they immediately recognized that one of the four should go away since I don't have a STB anymore - the first cc replaces the stb and is included in my digital package.

Telling them that I had a Tivo S3 with two cards on a single outlet baffled the poor woman. Put me on hold. Came back, said she'd take care of it. (But obviously didn't understand.) Promised that she wouldn't disable any cards.

We'll see what happens next month. My guess: three additional outlets and another call.

[hiker]

Got the first post-S3 cc install Comcast bill. No charge for cablecards themselves, but there were four charges ($5.99 ea.) for Digital Additional Outlets. The correct number is two. I have two TV's with cc's and the S3.

I called - they immediately recognized that one of the four should go away since I don't have a STB anymore - the first cc replaces the stb and is included in my digital package.

Telling them that I had a Tivo S3 with two cards on a single outlet baffled the poor woman. Put me on hold. Came back, said she'd take care of it. (But obviously didn't understand.) Promised that she wouldn't disable any cards.

We'll see what happens next month. My guess: three additional outlets and another call.
I wouldn't wait until the next bill... set up a userid on comcast.com so you can see recent activity and if the credits don't show up in a few days call back.

[Omnius]

Best I can tell, this $1.50 for the 2nd cable card is a regional thing, and not a Comcast corporate policy. I can not get anyone that knows anything about that. I've talked to billing, I've talked to sales. I've read the exact wording that other people have posted here, and they basically tell me I'm stupid, "because they've asked their supervisors and they know nothing about it". That wording did not appear on my October bill, and it does not appear anywhere on my online account access.

The only other thing I can figure is that I've been calling the local 404-COMCAST number in my area, I'm going to try calling 800-COMCAST next to see if I get a different story.

[zalusky]

I just went through this and the reps act pretty much like robots and just say tough.

Luckily I got a local supervisor who searched around online and found a memo dated in October that clarified about the $1.50 thing.

I would suggest you be very polite and work with your local supervisor to search through the October communications and see if they can find it.

I would have asked for the memo details but I didnt want to jinx my situation.

[Omnius]

Thats the problem, try as I might, I can NOT get to talk to anybody besides front line people. They always say the supervisor is out, or in a meeting, or on the phone, etc. I've been promised callbacks from the supervisor many times and have NEVER ever been called back.

[winpitt]

Thats the problem, try as I might, I can NOT get to talk to anybody besides front line people. They always say the supervisor is out, or in a meeting, or on the phone, etc. I've been promised callbacks from the supervisor many times and have NEVER ever been called back.

Local regional general manager confirmed (at this point) $1.75 per card rental times 2 plus $3.75 outlet per card times 2. They still are obviously unsure what will happen after the first of the year.

[SoCalCraig]

Believe it or not, it is these excessive CableCo charges that drove me to buy an S3.

When I first heard about the S3 at $799 I thought it was highway robbery, so when I got my 1st HDTV I signed up for the CableCo DVR. It's not as easy to use as Tivo, but nothing really bad about it. But when I go the first bill, and found out they were charging my $20 more for the DVR ($14 DVR rental + $6 Additional Outlet since I kept the old STB for use with my old Tivo S1).

I tried talking to the Time Warner CS, but they were so hard to talk to that I got nowhere. So I decided to cut back on as much as I could on the TW services I have to pay for.

I can't change away from Time Warner, I don't like satellite and there are no other options in my area. Looking at the price guide they provided, it looks like they would charge me about $8 per Cable Card ($2 CC rental + $6 A/O fee for each).

I'm going to try using the S3 without Cable Cards recording just the basic analog cable channels and the local HD channels that come with it (my HDTV picks up 6 HD channels on the cable input).

[hiker]

...
I'm going to try using the S3 without Cable Cards recording just the basic analog cable channels and the local HD channels that come with it (my HDTV picks up 6 HD channels on the cable input).
Unfortunately you're going to have to set manual recordings for the HD channels because the S3 won't provide the guide data for digital channels without cablecard.

[SoCalCraig]

Unfortunately you're going to have to set manual recordings for the HD channels because the S3 won't provide the guide data for digital channels without cablecard.

I was afraid of that... Thankfully I bought my S3 from CostCo, if I don't like they way it works I can always take it back to the local store. Who knows I may like the S3 so much that I open up the jugular to pay TW for their CCs.