Law & Order: CI 10/10/06 *spoilers*

[tivogurl]

Can somebody explain to me why Logan's partner just sits around and calls for help while the firefighters beat him up? She does have a firearm, and most people stop what they're doing right now when you threaten to shoot them.

[YCantAngieRead]

I wondered why she didn't shoot into the air just to make them stop.

But if I were that small and there were a bunch of big firefighters attacking, I'd probably cower in a corner, too.

[Rob Helmerichs]

And she seemed concussed pretty early in the conflict...

[vikingguy]

Well she can't weigh more then 50 pounds soaking wet. If she shot the recoil would knock her into next week then she could not call for back up 10 times.

[JYoung]

Come on!
That haircut should have given her at least 50 macho points!

[Rob Helmerichs]

Come on!
That haircut should have given her at least 50 macho points!
...for a total of 50.

On a scale of 1000.

:D

[newsposter]

why must they make her look....like that

is elliots partner preg in real life or something?

[Amnesia]

is elliots partner preg in real life or something?You're confusing the shows. Elliot is on SVU. This is CI.

The new partner on SVU is temporary, while the actress playing his partner gives birth. The new partner on this show is permanent.

[Amnesia]

I thought this show was kind of interesting. Instead of starting with the bad guys (or at least the prime suspects), they started half-way into the story and told much of the story in flashbacks. Also, I don't think they ever showed anything not from the point-of-view of the detectives (except for the rescue of the transvestite).

Also, how could the cops not realize that the husband's lover was gay? As soon as they started talking to him, I figured out that the husband was having an affair with him...

[MikeekiM]

Why did she hit Logan? Was it an accident? I am unclear why the writers put that in there at all... doesn't seem to add any value, and makes no sense...

If she was in the middle of the brawl, throwing several punches, maybe... but I think I only saw her throw one punch...

[RickyL]

I wondered why she didn't shoot into the air just to make them stop.

But if I were that small and there were a bunch of big firefighters attacking, I'd probably cower in a corner, too.


what goes up must come down. You never fire into the air. Besides for a police officer, deadly force would not have been authorized in that situation. An asp/baton, taser, or mace would have been more apporpriate, but I don't see detectives carring them.

[tetspa]

I'm surprised that someone didnt make some political hay about Logan punching out a commissioner who "outed" someone back in the original L&O series. Shows "bias"

[tetspa]

The Eric Bologian role is truly a "phone-in" role, don't you think? Few lines, no character development, might get 1 episode where he does something more than advise and consent. Pity, I've always liked the actor.

[Rob Helmerichs]

The Eric Bologian role is truly a "phone-in" role, don't you think? Few lines, no character development, might get 1 episode where he does something more than advise and consent. Pity, I've always liked the actor.
Pretty typical, though, for L&O captains.

[Idearat]

When the fight was just beginning I thought Logan's partner should have grabbed a fire extinguisher and used that to break them up.

[marksman]

I wondered why she did not fire a shot, and I think she probably just thought that it was not warranted due to the people involved. Not sure I agree with her, but that was my feeling.

I can say the opening bit is the first time in many, many years I felt compelled to watch the rest of any L&O episode with significant interest.

Too bad the episode was a bit of a letdown after the opening.

[Llwellyn]

I wondered why she did not fire a shot, and I think she probably just thought that it was not warranted due to the people involved. Not sure I agree with her, but that was my feeling.



You do not use lethal force or the threat of lethal force against a nonlethal threat. There is no police department anywhere in the country where a "warning shot" would be allowed or excused. Also, as the previous poster indicated, the bullet has to end up somewhere once you fire it. Shooting at the ceiling is a good way to ricochet a bullet into yourself.

Secondly, you certainly don't want to draw your weapon in a situation where you're uncertain to maintain control of said weapon.

[newsposter]

i can't get past mike bradys hair

[MassD]

You do not use lethal force or the threat of lethal force against a nonlethal threat.

While I don't think that pulling her weapon was a good idea, I'm not so sure about calling that a non-lethal threat.

If a cop is on a beat, surrounded by a bunch of goons fixing to beat his ass to a pulp, wouldn't that be considered enough of a threat to pull a weapon? While I don't think the jakes were aiming to kill Logan, it is still a situation that could end up killing someone...

Didn't you watch CSI? :)

[JYoung]

I'm surprised that someone didnt make some political hay about Logan punching out a commissioner who "outed" someone back in the original L&O series. Shows "bias"

I assumed that was why they were hauled in front of the brass like that (although Logan punched out a City Councilman in front of the press).
It would have been nice if there had been a line referencing that incident though.

[marksman]

You do not use lethal force or the threat of lethal force against a nonlethal threat. There is no police department anywhere in the country where a "warning shot" would be allowed or excused. Also, as the previous poster indicated, the bullet has to end up somewhere once you fire it. Shooting at the ceiling is a good way to ricochet a bullet into yourself.

Secondly, you certainly don't want to draw your weapon in a situation where you're uncertain to maintain control of said weapon.

So you are telling me a police officer can not draw their weapon when someone is getting kicked in the head and potentially beaten to death in front of them?

Sorry, but I doubt that is how police officers are trained to react in a situation where
someone is in danger of being killed.

Go back and watch it again. Multiple people kicking and beating him on the ground. Defintely a life threatining situation. I am not sure how you could claim that is a non-lethal threat.

[Llwellyn]

So you are telling me a police officer can not draw their weapon when someone is getting kicked in the head and potentially beaten to death in front of them?

Sorry, but I doubt that is how police officers are trained to react in a situation where
someone is in danger of being killed.

Go back and watch it again. Multiple people kicking and beating him on the ground. Defintely a life threatining situation. I am not sure how you could claim that is a non-lethal threat.

By protocol, she wouldn't have been able to draw on the single guy hitting Logan. By the time the rest joined in, it was an all-out melee and adding a gun to the mix would have just ended in someone getting killed, probably one of the cops since there were 6 firefighters and only two cops... and one of them was already out of commission.

There's a (rough) rule called the rule of 22. It tells you that your opponent must be 22 feet away in order for you to win in a one-on-one because an average person takes enough time to unholster, ready and aim their weapon the amount of time it takes an adversary to close the 22 feet. You don't draw your weapon unless you're sure you can hit your target and only your target, and you don't draw if you're not sure you can't keep them from using your own gun on you.

Any one of those firefighters would have easily been able to seize her weapon or redirect it with ease, they were much closer than 22 feet. Once mob mentality takes over, you don't take chances. She'd already called a signal 13 twice at that point, the only sensible thing to do was try to not get beat up as well and wait for the backup.

The backup should have drawn on the melee instead of jumping into it, as they'd have been reasonably assured that at that point the lethal force would have been warranted and they would have been reasonably assured to obtain and retain control of their weapons and the situation.

Every police department has very specific protocols in place which outline exactly when and when not to draw and fire a weapon. I don't know what NYPD's exact protocol is as it's not going to be public information you can find on google, and I can't say whether they intended to depict what was portrayed as being true-to-life or not. I'm just saying that they train for this kind of stuff and there's lots of behind-the-scenes that would determine what would take place in a real-life situation.

Also, someone alluded to the episode of CSI. I hadn't viewed it at the time of my original posts. Having now viewed it, it's the exact same situation there. Even if Sanders had been armed, there was no way that one officer, even armed, would have been able to maintain control of the scene even with a firearm. Everyone saw the result: He used lethal force via the vehicle and still ended up severely wounded. It's only because they wanted him and the victim to live that they did... a real life mob likely would have resumed beating both the original victim and Sanders before leaving the scene. A gun would only have guaranteed someone would have been shot... and likely not the person we'd all wanted to have been shot.