Broadcast Flag, downres message, component outputs

[JJ]

The copyright holder of this program permits viewing at less than high definition on component outputs.

This statement
appears on tonights CSI:Miami and Criminal Minds. This statement is only visible when playing and the right arrow is pressed. In normal guide mode it is not present. While looking at these programs recorded OTA they looked sort of soft to me. After confirming that they were indeed tonights episodes a quick check of the Media Center PC that also recorded these episodes and they looked much better (normal) there. Another case of a DirecTV 'upgrade' taking away picture quality? When did it become more about appeasing networks, actors, writers and producers and less about delivering programming to customers...

[ebonovic]

Hmm... I don't have my HR10 connected any more, but I would have liked to check it out.

What channel? Are you recording these from? (what area are you in)

I know I have CSI:Miami from Monday Night on the HR20... via Component connection, and I see no such warning, and the picture is mint... and very high def

Another case of a DirecTV 'upgrade' taking away picture quality? When did it become more about appeasing networks, actors, writers and producers and less about delivering programming to customers...

1) TiVo, Inc wrote the upgrade
2) Where have you been... sadly that has been the case accross the board for all providers over the last decade or so...

[TyroneShoes]

1. I don't see evidence yet connecting this to any upgrade.

2. It is not a matter of who wrote the upgrade (should that be relevant), it is a matter of who compelled them to include this restriction.

[Redux]

It is not a matter of who wrote the upgrade (should that be relevant), it is a matter of who compelled them to include this restriction.His point is, it's not DirecTV's fault.

It may be "Tivo, Inc." as he says, or it may be Saddam Hussein, it could in fact be anybody's fault. Except DirecTV.

[JJ]

What channel? Are you recording these from? (what area are you in)

1) TiVo, Inc wrote the upgrade


CBS46.1 (RF19) Atlanta

TiVo, Inc. wrote the upgrade but I cannot believe that DirecTV, Inc. had no hand in the process. If nothing else there would have been an agreement regarding what would be updated. DirecTV has a responsibility to confirm the operational fitness of software they distribute. There is plenty of blame to go around and little inclination to step up and take responsibility.

My overriding concern is that in the name of copy protection outputs that don't support HDCP will be crippled. The promise of a HDTV pristine picture being reduced by a device I purchased with the expectation of getting the full quality being broadcast leaves me wondering whats next...

[nelsonrl]

-
-


1) TiVo, Inc wrote the upgrade




No idea what the answer is, but wouldn't DirecTV have requested Tivo write it to their specs? Typically when you "OEM" a software component, it is "OEM'ed" with at least some of your own specs.

[RunnerFL]

I didn't get the message on my HR10 on either CSI:Miami or Criminal Minds. They were recorded OTA and I watched them at 1080i.

[ebonovic]

No idea what the answer is, but wouldn't DirecTV have requested Tivo write it to their specs? Typically when you "OEM" a software component, it is "OEM'ed" with at least some of your own specs.

Yes, but it has been shown that some of TiVo's code carries over into the DTivo.
(MRV Home Media Option Code still there, even though DirecTV doesn't want that feature).

To the OP:
Can you take a screen shot of the message screen.

As I got a few messages from others that are telling me that there is no such code in the HR10, or any plans to implent such a thing in any of the DirecTV receivers.

[TyroneShoes]

His point is, it's not DirecTV's fault.

It may be "Tivo, Inc." as he says, or it may be Saddam Hussein, it could in fact be anybody's fault. Except DirecTV.
If that is thinly-veiled sarcasm, I can only say that it is SO thinly-veiled as to be wasted on many of the posters here, in my view.

While I agree with you that we don't know the genesis of why this is now happening (or even if), if the last line of your reply was not sarcastic, that also then implies that we then can't exclude any of the players, so I disagree that we can exclude DTV. But we can't blame them or Tivo or anyone else at this point, either. This is brand-new, and we just don't have that kind of information yet.

His original point sounds more like "it's Tivo's fault", although I would never try to speak for him. And his last post seems to invalidate that conclusion, so possibly I misinterpreted that, but then possibly many others took it for the gospel truth. MY point was that we can't be sure of that yet. I was simply trying to reign in a potential conspiracy theory before it took off half-cocked, not to point fingers (and especially not at Earl), but to un-point them in the absence of any real evidence.

I have no dog in this fight, I just would hope we could put down the torches and pitchforks until we really know something. But I will go on the record to say that I am very strongly against the practice, and I will certainly join in any censure of the culprit once we know who that is, and completely regardless of who it is.

[phox_mulder]

The copyright holder of this program permits viewing at less than high definition on component outputs.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

I see the word "permits", not "prohibits".

I'm reading it as: If you don't have a HD TV, you can still watch this program via the component outputs.
Component video has been around a lot longer than HDTV.
20+ years longer.

Why it even needs to be displayed though, that question needs to be asked.

I've never seen it, but I've never tried watching 480i or 480p through the component outputs.


phox

[TyroneShoes]

Well it's very much like a speed limit sign that says "The government in charge permits driving at speeds of less than 15 MPH", so it is most defintely restrictive, just written PC. It's like being asked to smile while we bend you over, because we're only going to F you just a little bit, and we are even going to "permit" you to enjoy it.

So from that quite reasonable POV, I see plenty wrong with it.

[appleye1]

The copyright holder of this program permits viewing at less than high definition on component outputs.

Or restated this way: "The copyright holder of this program ONLY permits viewing at less than high definition on component outputs."

or maybe: "The copyright holder of this program DOES NOT permit viewing in high definition on component outputs."

Those would be the corollaries right? My display has only one HDMI port and HDMI switching is still entirely too expensive, both in stand-alone switches and in receivers, so I was definitely hoping that I'd be able to rely on component for HD for a while longer. :( I haven't gotten the upgrade on either of my HR10-250s yet, but I'm hoping the notice is only a notice and doesn't reflect an actual restriction.

[JJ]

Photos
hopefully will tell the story.

Based on the video quality I observed I am inclined to believe that this is intended to be a message defining why the picture is horrid. I am attempting to communicate the message exactly as displayed on screen without any commentary other than the less than usual HD picture quality.

I look forward to a better response than DirecTV was prepared to give last night:
1> "It just happens sometimes" (from a HDTV specialist)
2> "It's your cables"
3> "Are you sure it was broadcast in HD?"
4> "Please reset your box"
5> "Clear and Delete Everything" (leaving no evidence I'm sure)
6> "We can send a service techincian"
7> "DirecTV can only deliver broadcast quality"
8> "We can upgrade you to a MPEG4 box but it doesen't receive OTA signals"

I have no HDMI ports on my current monitor and have no reason to spend large dollars on a new display just for the purpose of getting the HD signal from the Hughes HR10-250. The HR10-250 specification shows that it can (and has) deliver 480/720/1080 via the component connection. I have no direct knowledge that this is related in any way to the 6.3a upgrade but the timing and vague (made up on the fly) answers from DirecTV seem to suggest that is something new or at the very least seldom seen.

CRIMINAL_MINDS (http://www.technologywrangler.com/images/CSI_MIAMI_ERROR.jpg)

CSI_MIAMI (http://www.technologywrangler.com/images/CSI_MIAMI_ERROR.jpg)

Please forgive low quality images. I seldom have need for a digital camera so a 1999 model still suits me just fine...

[Redux]

Yes, but it has been shown that some of TiVo's code carries over into the DTivo.
(MRV Home Media Option Code still there, even though DirecTV doesn't want that feature).Having some old code, that is INACTIVE and has no effect on the user experience with a revision is very different from having active routines that result in a user experience contrary to what the code contractor has specified.

Lots of programmers simply comment out old code rather than deleteing it. There may be subroutines called by other features that make it a reasonable choice to leave the old code in, inactive to its original purpose, rather than to completely remove it.

The MRV code you refer to is such a case. True it can be hacked into, but such deliberate hacker access is not the issue you were addressing.

Your statement that Tivo's code for MRV carries over to the DTivo contrary to DirecTV wishes is probably not exactly a lie; but your implication that pattern makes it at all likely that Tivo has included the particular issue we're discussing (the OP's symptom) in the software revision despite DirecTV's wishes is reaching _way_ out there.

Don't you think it would be fair to include a sig in your posts that explains your role here on this Tivo forum as an advocate for DirecTV, your relationship to that company and any consideration recieved, such as free pre-release hardware, etc?

I'd also like to see the forum operaors charge you for advertising, if they do not already.

[ycrazyy]

My HR10 (with 6.3a) happened to have recorded that CSI: Miami on Sat night via the DirecTV HD feed. I have my HR10 hooked up via component and saw no message like that and it was certainly in HD. Maybe it has to do with some signal being sent from the OTA station? That is odd though, definitely scares me a bit as my TV only has a DVI port (hooked to my DVD player). Please update if you find out anything else, I'd be interested to see the results.

[JJ]

Maybe it has to do with some signal being sent from the OTA station?

To give some insight
to what I have observed. Usual disclaimers apply, I'm not a machine and cannot qualify my observations by scientific means or direct measurements.

To my eyes:
Media Center 2005 2005 (Aver180 card) 100% (normal, used as a reference)
DirecTV HR10-250 receiver picture 80% (usually 99.94% for too high contrast)
TiVo Series1 / Comcast analog cable 50% (normal, scan converted up to 480p)
* All HDTV is from same antenna

Recorded football, baseball and NASCAR today and I have observed no messages yet. Planning on changing my usual pattern and recording the CBS46 over the air HDTV signal tonight as an ongoing test...

[Cheezmo]

There are entries in tvlog that would indicate the capability exists...

Oct 8 20:44:26 (none) TvMomHpkSink.C[311]: Notify EVT_COPY_PROTECT mvType=0 hdcp=0 downres=0

"downres=0"

In the case in this thread, I imagine the local affiliate was either experimenting or clueless and turned on the downrez requirement. That is part of the HD rules that receivers are supposed to play by these days.

Yes, but it has been shown that some of TiVo's code carries over into the DTivo.
(MRV Home Media Option Code still there, even though DirecTV doesn't want that feature).

To the OP:
Can you take a screen shot of the message screen.

As I got a few messages from others that are telling me that there is no such code in the HR10, or any plans to implent such a thing in any of the DirecTV receivers.

[moonman]

As I got a few messages from others that are telling me that there is no such code in the HR10, or any plans to implent such a thing in any of the DirecTV receivers.
-----------------------
Earl....not wanting to be arguementative here, but it is a known fact the ch. 498(sports sked) is running a Macrovision test signal on it. Also if your Tivo 10-250
is connected via comp. connection and you tune to ch. 201(Directv basics), and
press the "info" button, you will see the same msg. the OP posted. I have 3
differant brand receivers, and none except the 10-250 box shows this msg.
I don't think they are using it yet, but it does show they have the ability to do so
if they wanted to do it. :(

[ebonovic]

-----------------------
Earl....not wanting to be arguementative here, but it is a known fact the ch. 498(sports sked) is running a Macrovision test signal on it. Also if your Tivo 10-250
is connected via comp. connection and you tune to ch. 201(Directv basics), and
press the "info" button, you will see the same msg. the OP posted. I have 3
differant brand receivers, and none except the 10-250 box shows this msg.
I don't think they are using it yet, but it does show they have the ability to do so
if they wanted to do it. :(


I do know they have Macrovision ability in the system (and in teh others as well).

But I was referring to down rezing the componenet output, not blocking the recording.

[moonman]

I do know they have Macrovision ability in the system (and in teh others as well).

But I was referring to down rezing the componenet output, not blocking the recording.
--------------
and that is the msg you see..on 201...
The copyright holder of this program permits viewing at less than high definition on component outputs.

[ebonovic]

--------------
and that is the msg you see..on 201...
The copyright holder of this program permits viewing at less than high definition on component outputs.

Yes...
I wasn't saying it wouldn't display what is the "text" field in the guide data.. :)

I hopefully will have some other answers later in the week.

[moonman]

OK Earl...I guess my point was to show that this code IS written into the Tivo code..
quote:As I got a few messages from others that are telling me that there is no such code in the HR10, or any plans to implent such a thing in any of the DirecTV receivers. Unquote
As I pointed out, none of my other receivers display the downrez msg...only my Tivo.
Now if the msg disappears all of a sudden, I'll be really disappointed in D*.

[Lee L]

There is a statement in the hr10-250 manual that says something like this. When it was originally designed it seemed much more likely that networks woudl require downressing so they built it to allow it. SInce then, the networks have backed off this a littel and it probably will not happen. More than likely the local station improperly set the flag or something. You should call their engineering staff. you can also check over in your local area thread at avsforum to see if anyone esle saw somethign similar.

[JJ]

Interesting
that only the Hr10-250 was affected and displayed the less than full resolution/quality picture. In doing further research the other Media Center in my office also recorded a fine (full HDTV) picture of CSI:Miami. If the broadcaster is actually to blame they must have the ability to set a 'flag' only for the DirecTV OTA HDTV tuner allowing less than full resolution to be output over component output.

Based on Cheezmo's investigation (thanks for your input) there appears to be an option in the code to disable the full HDTV picture from being sent to the component output. TSince I no longer play in the TiVo enhancement game this input is most appreciated. The option appears to be legitimate and while I don't pretend to know how this 'feature' is enabled, or who has the ability to invoke it the mere presence of it concerns me.

This is not intended to be a conspiracy theory but the ability for 'Big Brother' (whomever that may be) to reduce my picture quality without my consent is truly disconcerting at a minimum...

FYI: Sundays Cold Case recording seemed to be full HDTV, so the mystery may either be deepening or the experiment could have concluded already

[Lee L]

IIRC, many of the HDTV cards made until recently did not have any way to detect the flag, much less do anythign with it. At one tiem, they were going to have to stop seeling and making them, but I have not been up on that for a year or more so I do not know if it is true still. However, not respecting the flag might explain why it had ne effect.

[kenboy]

As yet another person with an HDTV without HDMI inputs, this is really disturbing.

I wonder if anyone makes an HDMI-to-component "splitter" to solve this problem.

[JJ]

So
the beat goes on. As before the Media Center recordings are higher quality. I have checked the cards and in the office unit the single card in that system is definately manufactured after June 2005 and should (but I have no way to confirm that it will) respect the broadcast flag if that is indeed the issue here...

CSI:NY mesage 11 October 2006 (http://www.technologywrangler.com/images/CSI_NY_ERROR.jpg)

Is anyone else in the Atlanta area recording this program OTA from CBS46 on a HR10-250? It may make finding the perpetrator of the reduced quality a little easier...

[Cheezmo]

I got hit with this on my Criminal Minds recording tonight. OTA, KTVT-DT in Dallas.

Here are the relevant log entries on playback...


Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomHpkSink.C[312]: Notify EVT_COPY_PROTECT mvType=0 hdcp=1 downres=1
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TagManagerStats[255]: <Info> LoadTag stats in msec: mean = 280, variance = 0, samples = 1, min = 280, max = 280, Min = 280, Max = 280, threshold = 50%, max samples = 100
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: DisplayController:DisplayFormat::SET
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: DownRes = ENABLE
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: Aspect Ratio is 4:3
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: DisplayController:HPK_PICTURE_1920_1080
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomHDMIController.C[314]: HDMI Controller: Set to 1920_1080i
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: TvMomDisplayController::ReportCurrentFormat
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomHDMIController.C[314]: TvMomHDMIController::GetModelID:Display Not connected


Thanks alot CBS.

[mx6bfast]

So
the beat goes on. As before the Media Center recordings are higher quality. I have checked the cards and in the office unit the single card in that system is definately manufactured after June 2005 and should (but I have no way to confirm that it will) respect the broadcast flag if that is indeed the issue here...

CSI:NY mesage 11 October 2006 (http://www.technologywrangler.com/images/CSI_NY_ERROR.jpg)

Is anyone else in the Atlanta area recording this program OTA from CBS46 on a HR10-250? It may make finding the perpetrator of the reduced quality a little easier...
Here in Memphis I didn't get the message on my HDTivo.

[Cheezmo]

Did you record it OTA, or from one of the DirecTV feeds?

[mx6bfast]

Did you record it OTA, or from one of the DirecTV feeds?
OTA

[Lee L]

I don't think I have watched either of the airings of Criminal Minds you guys are talking about, but I have them recorded and I will double check when I play them. What are the dates you are talking about and how do I make this messaeg appear? Just press the right arrow button while the show is playing?

[mx6bfast]

I just pressed the info button. Do I need to do it another way.

btw..I am using component cables.

[JJ]

Apparently
different markets are handling this differently. In DFW KTVT-DT CBS owned station is 'flagging' (reported by Cheezmo) as is the Merideth owned WGCL-DT is doing here in ATL.

I'm sort of put off by this as reducing the quality of the output from the box hints that producers/broadcasters/signal providers could only mean that I (and others in this market) cannot be trusted with the full quality signal. I'm branded as untrustworthy or even labeled as a potential criminal without a hearing or any facts being made available to support this action.

While unauthorized duplication may occur there are methods out there (or so I hear) to retreive the pristine data from the drive making the loss plauged component signal seem unattractive as a source for archiving as the world stands today...

[PowerstrokeHD]

Is this happening only to units with 6.3a or is this a problem with 3.1 also? Neither of my 2 units have the 6.3a update yet, and have not had this problem with the Detroit OTA. I was willing to take my chances with the other reported problems, but if this is a result of 6.3a I am pulling the phone line. I for one will sacrifice speed for resolution any day!

[bsnelson]

I got hit with this on my Criminal Minds recording tonight. OTA, KTVT-DT in Dallas.

Here are the relevant log entries on playback...


Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomHpkSink.C[312]: Notify EVT_COPY_PROTECT mvType=0 hdcp=1 downres=1
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TagManagerStats[255]: <Info> LoadTag stats in msec: mean = 280, variance = 0, samples = 1, min = 280, max = 280, Min = 280, Max = 280, threshold = 50%, max samples = 100
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: DisplayController:DisplayFormat::SET
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: DownRes = ENABLE
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: Aspect Ratio is 4:3
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: DisplayController:HPK_PICTURE_1920_1080
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomHDMIController.C[314]: HDMI Controller: Set to 1920_1080i
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomDisplayController.C[314]: TvMomDisplayController::ReportCurrentFormat
Oct 12 02:47:33 (none) TvMomHDMIController.C[314]: TvMomHDMIController::GetModelID:Display Not connected


Thanks alot CBS.Interesting. I suspect that a, um, "software solution" could be found for this. Forcing the downres flag to 0, for example.

Brad

[Cheezmo]

All indications are that this is an error or a bug in the Tivo. I've communicated with an engineer from the station who is trying to track down with CBS what happened. It was not intentional.

[JJ]

I was not
intending to modify the HR10-250, but to maintain picture quality I'm willing to get back into that game...

Never saw this before v6.3a...

[Lee L]

So, can someone explain to me how to make this message appear? DO I hit info or the right arrow. Excatly when do I do it? I watched 30 Rock last night (which is on NBC of course) and it looked like crap but I saw no message about resolution.

[bpratt]

I watched that version of Criminal Minds last night which was recorded OTA. I hit both the right arrow button and the info button and had no such message. The program was recorded and played back as great HD.

[Kamakzie]

This morning on my local CBS HD channel I have "Viewing is not permitted using the Recorder's HDMI output try another tv input."

[moonman]

This morning on my local CBS HD channel I have "Viewing is not permitted using the Recorder's HDMI output try another tv input."
By any chance did you recently receive ver 6.3?? My theory is that the new ver.
code contains a down-rez flag authorization code that many CBS stations are
sending out as "standard" practice, and the new Tivo code is reading this flag.

[Kamakzie]

Yeah I did yesterday. So this thing is always going to do this now?

[moonman]

Yeah I did yesterday. So this thing is always going to do this now?
It would seem so.....at least as far as receiving CBS goes....I would call/send the chief engineer at your local station, and tell him of the problems you are
having...maybe he could kill the offending flag signal so you could view/record
the programs as they were intended to be seen?
Looks like CBS got caught with their flags on!! :(

[Kamakzie]

Ugh this is lame! Thanks a lot CBS.. :(

[moonman]

Ugh this is lame! Thanks a lot CBS.. :(
http://www.wwmt.com/contact_us_email.shtml
Jim Steffey, Chief Engineer jimsteff@wwmt.com

[Kamakzie]

Thanks moonman I just emailed him!

[moonman]

Thanks moonman I just emailed him!
Welcome.....be sure to let him know that the problem is not yours alone...
others with the Tivo around the country, are reporting the same thing...
you would be helping all of us too! You might even suggest that the engineer
look at this & our sister Forum, to verify the sudden appearence of this flag.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8655831#post8655831

[DonQijote]

As yet another person with an HDTV without HDMI inputs, this is really disturbing.

I wonder if anyone makes an HDMI-to-component "splitter" to solve this problem.
============================================

I recently ordered and received one of these DVI-to-Component cables (under $7)

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041901&p_id=2398&seq=1&format=2&style=

From the same Monoprice.com site, I also bought a 6 inch cable that has an HDMI male plug on one end, a Both, a DVI AND HDMI females on the other end. I guess you could call this a splitter.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10422&cs_id=1042203&p_id=2523&style=&seq=1&format=1#largeimage
I plan to soon test these in several ways and for different purposes. All I need to do next is find the time to do the testing ;)

By the way, if you have not yet purchased from monoprice.com, their prices on HDMI & DVI cables are simply unbeatable. All with great quality, and same day shipment.

[altan]

============================================
I recently ordered and received one of these DVI-to-Component cables (under $7)


I don't think those adapters work in general. I believe these only work with Radeon video cards, not your HD10-250.

There is a bigger issue here. HDMI and DVI are not the same. HDMI supports copy protection, DVI doesn't. When a broadcaster sets the "downres" attribute, it tells the HR10-250 to only output full HD via an output that supports copy protection. Sadly, component doesn't.

Using a HDMI -> DVI -> component solution will not pass the copy protection scheme implemented by HDMI.

Don't get me wrong --- I'm not happy about this downres either. All my HD displays are component and don't have DVI (or HDMI). Broadcasters are screwing us by using this.

... Altan

[phox_mulder]

I just saw that message on mine, have had 6.3a for just over a week.

CSI that I TiVo'd on Thursday.
I was watching via HDMI, hit info got normal info screen, right arrow, just a banner saying CSI.

Switched to component input, hit info got the "Copyrite holder permits lower than HD resolution via component" followed by the show description.
Could not get the normal info screen no matter what combination of info/right/left/up/down,
just that copyrite message.

Paused on a visually active scene, small print on little postits, could read but barely thanks to HD quality.
Switched between HDMI and Component and the picture quality didn't change.

So, the flag is there, the message is there, but Component and HDMI are both outputting crystal clear High Definition video.

I checked PSIP on Wednesday before I left work, and the broadcast flag was not checked, so it was not being sent by our PSIP at the station.

Whatever that is causing that message must be being sent at the CBS Network level, not the affiliate level.


phox

[TyroneShoes]

So, it sounds like an isolated incident, and either due to a cockpit error at the program source, or a mis-read of the flag at the STB.

Whew! I am glad to see this is not becoming a trend (downrezzing on purpose by the program supplier) but I still find it disturbing that the capability is there should they want to go all Mussolini on our asses.

[bwaldron]

So, it sounds like an isolated incident, and either due to a cockpit error at the program source, or a mis-read of the flag at the STB.

Whew! I am glad to see this is not becoming a trend (downrezzing on purpose by the program supplier) but I still find it disturbing that the capability is there should they want to go all Mussolini on our asses.

True!

I'm still running 3.15f unplugged, so it didn't impact me, but it is worrisome.

Also, I thought that OTA broadcasts were supposed to keep the "analog hole" open, so this crap shouldn't apply there anyway?

[JJ]

My concern
is that this is a test by broadcasters to determine just how much outcry they can expect when this feature becomes more widely used in the future...

[moonman]

According to this post by a CBS employee, the flag is being inserted at the National
level, and he claims no downrez is taking place.......at this time anyway.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8662126&&#post8662126

[phox_mulder]

According to this post by a CBS employee, the flag is being inserted at the National
level, and he claims no downrez is taking place.......at this time anyway.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8662126&&#post8662126

That'd be me.

Nothing is being set here at the station level, as far as I can tell.
Thus it has to be at the Network level.

This only applies to OTA recordings, no idea what DirecTV could do as far as broadcast flags are concerned, I assume since they can for PPV they can for anything.


phox

[Kamakzie]

They need to fix this if it continues because this is dumb. I want HDTV not EDTV. :)

[JJ]

Since this appears
to be the wave of the future. Looks like 'Little Kahunas' like me are going to get wiped out. I have been a sub since before DirecTiVos were available and don't see anything like this sort of treatment happening to other SAT/Cable subs. DirecTV could decide to be BF agnostic for the time being. Just because you 'can' doesen't mean that you 'should' do something.

Since customers receiving HD locals from satellite are unaffected by this I am concerned that OTA cystomers are rapidly becoming second class clientele to DirecTV. After all, in locations where the CBS and they are supplying DirecTV with the data stream, is anyone getting this message over satellite data stream in a major market? Apparently the flag is not reaching the satellite customers or the receiver ignores it.

Makes me wonder:
CBS adding the flag to the programming feed = dumb
DirecTV setting flag active for OTA tuners = dumber
DirecTV not passing flag to satellite customers = marketing

Since I have my OTA covered by other means it makes the TiVo potentially useful only for SD schlock, HBOHD and ShowtimeHD until they go to MPEG4 and the receiver becomes a really fancy boat anchor...

[Kamakzie]

Tonight I recorded Without a Trace and it didn't give me a problem. Maybe it was just a one time blunder?

[JJ]

Next probable
blunder is CSI:Mami tonight. Interesting how many of the shows with this 'feature' are Jerry Bruckheimer productions. No accusations, just an ongoing observation...

[Richard Chalk]

Since this appears
to be the wave of the future. Looks like 'Little Kahunas' like me are going to get wiped out. I have been a sub since before DirecTiVos were available and don't see anything like this sort of treatment happening to other SAT/Cable subs. DirecTV could decide to be BF agnostic for the time being. Just because you 'can' doesen't mean that you 'should' do something.

Since customers receiving HD locals from satellite are unaffected by this I am concerned that OTA cystomers are rapidly becoming second class clientele to DirecTV. After all, in locations where the CBS and they are supplying DirecTV with the data stream, is anyone getting this message over satellite data stream in a major market? Apparently the flag is not reaching the satellite customers or the receiver ignores it.

Makes me wonder:
CBS adding the flag to the programming feed = dumb
DirecTV setting flag active for OTA tuners = dumber
DirecTV not passing flag to satellite customers = marketing

Since I have my OTA covered by other means it makes the TiVo potentially useful only for SD schlock, HBOHD and ShowtimeHD until they go to MPEG4 and the receiver becomes a really fancy boat anchor...

You seem to be missing the point here!! The message says that it is the copyright holder who is requiring this. That means it is not the fault of the network, the station, DirecTV, or the equipment manufacturer or programmers.

Whether we like it or not, the program owners have lobbied the system to protect themselves against piracy of their HD content. I never believed this was really aimed at individuals who want to make themselves a copy, and this is, in fact, legal. There are, however, complete businesses built around copying and selling copies of movies, TV shows, etc. which could have a significant effect on the legitimate business of these owners.

With the advent of HD DVD Recorders, it is not hard to imagine units with component inputs, which can make copies of these programs, minus the copy protection. That is why the system provides for limiting full HD to the HDMI output, which supports serial copy protection.

I can't say for certain, but I suspect that the contract to air the program provides for this to be set when requested, and that any station which does not do it could be found in breach of contract. There is probably a contract with DirecTV as well, saying the same thing, i.e. do it this way, or you do not have the rights to the program.

That being said, I always thought it would apply primarily to movies, and not day-to-day programming. That seems really unnecessary to me...

As for the complaints, remember that the vast majority of TV viewers have one box connected to one display, and as HDMI connections become standard, this will work fine. Once again, we see the price of being an early-adopter...

[JJ]

You seem to be missing the point here!! The message says that it is the copyright holder who is requiring this. That means it is not the fault of the network, the station, DirecTV, or the equipment manufacturer or programmers.

Whether we like it or not, the program owners have lobbied the system to protect themselves against piracy of their HD content. I never believed this was really aimed at individuals who want to make themselves a copy, and this is, in fact, legal. There are, however, complete businesses built around copying and selling copies of movies, TV shows, etc. which could have a significant effect on the legitimate business of these owners.

With the advent of HD DVD Recorders, it is not hard to imagine units with component inputs, which can make copies of these programs, minus the copy protection. That is why the system provides for limiting full HD to the HDMI output, which supports serial copy protection.

I can't say for certain, but I suspect that the contract to air the program provides for this to be set when requested, and that any station which does not do it could be found in breach of contract. There is probably a contract with DirecTV as well, saying the same thing, i.e. do it this way, or you do not have the rights to the program.

That being said, I always thought it would apply primarily to movies, and not day-to-day programming. That seems really unnecessary to me...

As for the complaints, remember that the vast majority of TV viewers have one box connected to one display, and as HDMI connections become standard, this will work fine. Once again, we see the price of being an early-adopter...

Then why
is the DirecTV HDTV signal from the satellite free from this effect? Why are some broadcast markets apparently unaffected? If DirecTV is reducing my quality to appease producers or someone else, why would they risk the lawsuits by sending the full quality to customers? It would appear that customers getting signals from space are somehow considered more trustworthy than those who choose OTA...

Being penalized for early adoption is not unfamiliar to me. I have a wing of my garage dedicated to product categories that died young for some reason or another. Products that somehow purposely reduce thier usefulness/effectiveness have a special niche in the hall of shame dedicated to them...

[AbMagFab]

Bottom line, this is a problem with the local affiliate, not Tivo or DirecTV. Congress (I think?) killed the Broadcast flag, which is the only means OTA to have this kind of restriction. If some affiliate is using this OTA, it's their issue.

For CC's, the cable company can also send this, although they aren't supposed to (yet).

In any case, OTA should be broadcast flag free. If it's not, complain to your affiliate.

[phox_mulder]

In any case, OTA should be broadcast flag free. If it's not, complain to your affiliate.

Affiliate most likely has no idea what this flag is.

Complain to the Network, as everything I've seen points in their direction, then if they decide it is an affiliate problem, the complaint will flow downhill to them.


phox

[bwaldron]

In any case, OTA should be broadcast flag free.

That is exacty my understanding.

[AbMagFab]

Affiliate most likely has no idea what this flag is.

Complain to the Network, as everything I've seen points in their direction, then if they decide it is an affiliate problem, the complaint will flow downhill to them.


phox

It has to be the affiliate, since for CBS they are the ones to compress and send it out. Only if it were Fox would the network be a possibility. However I agree that they probably don't know what they're doing an did it by mistake, or without thinking.

And this doesn't effect DirecTV since broadcast flags are OTA only, and the CC equivalent only works with cable cards, not DirecTV receivers.

[phox_mulder]

It has to be the affiliate, since for CBS they are the ones to compress and send it out. Only if it were Fox would the network be a possibility. However I agree that they probably don't know what they're doing an did it by mistake, or without thinking.

There is only one flag we can add and that is the "redistribution control".
I am looking at our PSIP computer right now, and that flag is not selected for any programming.

90% of the country just passes the HD signal untouched from CBS to the viewers.
Mountain time zone affiliates are the only ones who have to record it and play it back later for the viewers, and we have what amounts to a really big TiVo to do this, data in-data out, no compressing going on.

I saw the "copyright holder permits viewing at less than HD resolution via component input" on CSI last Thursday that I verified had no flag selected on our PSIP.
Now, unless it isn't PSIP that allows us to set these flags, it isn't happening at the affiliate level.

I am recording CSI:Miami at home tonight.
I have verified that there is no flag set here at the station.
I will check when I watch later tonight to see if it has that "copyright holder" statement on component output.


phox

[moonman]

Please check it out....I am recording CSI:Miami at home tonight.
I have verified that there is no flag set here at the station.
I will check when I watch later tonight to see if it has that "copyright holder" statement on component output.
---------------------
JJ can't wait..........Next probable
blunder is CSI:Mami tonight. Interesting how many of the shows with this 'feature' are Jerry Bruckheimer productions. No accusations, just an ongoing observation...

[TyroneShoes]

It has to be the affiliate, since for CBS they are the ones to compress and send it out. Only if it were Fox would the network be a possibility...
I don't quite understand this reasoning. TV affils typically do not alter or manipulate MPEG-encoded network content, although some do batch decode it to HD-SDI before re-encoding it to SMPTE310 for broadcast. But 310 formatting and the muxing associated with that typically does not do anything to alter DRM, and it would be unlikely that they even could or would, since a program copyright holder would be much better served by controlling that at the source rather than trying to control it simultaneously at 200 different locations accross the continent.

About all that the affil adds to the network's transport stream is PSIP info for EPG compliance. Even FOX affils, where the elemental stream representing the program video effectively bypasses most local processing without leaving the ASI domain, will mux and splice PSIP info in.

So, it does not "have" to be the affiliate at all, in terms of who might be responsible. It could easily be one of any number of potential glitch points along the way, and may not even be intentional. In fact, since we don't have much evidence of it happening more than once or in more than one location, that is exactly what it appears to be. Unintentional...a one-time glitch.

[JJ]

Thanks Phox,
I continue to believe that isolating the root cause as best we can gives the best result when addressing the reduced picture quality issue. Laying a global sort of complaint to the network (CBS) when the local broadcaster (Merideth) is actually responsible for the issue makes the original complaint less effective...

[Richard Chalk]

I don't quite understand this reasoning. TV affils typically do not alter or manipulate MPEG-encoded network content, although some do batch decode it to HD-SDI before re-encoding it to SMPTE310 for broadcast. But 310 formatting and the muxing associated with that typically does not do anything to alter DRM, and it would be unlikely that they even could or would, since a program copyright holder would be much better served by controlling that at the source rather than trying to control it simultaneously at 200 different locations accross the continent.

About all that the affil adds to the network's transport stream is PSIP info for EPG compliance. Even FOX affils, where the elemental stream representing the program video effectively bypasses most local processing without leaving the ASI domain, will mux and splice PSIP info in.

So, it does not "have" to be the affiliate at all, in terms of who might be responsible. It could easily be one of any number of potential glitch points along the way, and may not even be intentional. In fact, since we don't have much evidence of it happening more than once or in more than one location, that is exactly what it appears to be. Unintentional...a one-time glitch.

One thing is certain, however, and that is that the DirecTV units are capable of detecting the flag, and adding the statement into the guide data. Otherwise, it would not be seen at all!!

I bet that the text of this message is buried in a file somewhere on the Hard Drive...

[TyroneShoes]

One thing is certain, however, and that is that the DirecTV units are capable of detecting the flag, and adding the statement into the guide data. Otherwise, it would not be seen at all!!

I bet that the text of this message is buried in a file somewhere on the Hard Drive...
Yep. And that is both ominous and scary.

[moonman]

I In fact, since we don't have much evidence of it happening more than once or in more than one location, that is exactly what it appears to be. Unintentional...a one-time glitch.
--------------------
It would seem that there is indeed evidence of it in more than one location..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=735372

[phox_mulder]

Interesting how many of the shows with this 'feature' are Jerry Bruckheimer productions. No accusations, just an ongoing observation...

I've only seen the message on CSI's, all produced by Mr. Bruckheimer.


phox

[phox_mulder]

I think we all need to be glad we don't have S3's yet.

It looks like they are having a lot more problems with errant broadcast flags than we are.
That "will delete in 90 minutes" wouldn't fly in my household,
I am already 2-3 weeks behind in a lot of my HD watching.


phox

[TyroneShoes]

--------------------
It would seem that there is indeed evidence of it in more than one location..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=735372
OK, that's two people out of 300 million reporting it in two locations (Dallas and Salt Lake City) out of 225 markets. Doesn't quite seem like a trend as much as a glitch.

[bwaldron]

I think we all need to be glad we don't have S3's yet.

It looks like they are having a lot more problems with errant broadcast flags than we are.
That "will delete in 90 minutes" wouldn't fly in my household,
I am already 2-3 weeks behind in a lot of my HD watching.


phox

Yeah, I've been reading that board.

It's bad stuff. At some point you'd hope that consumers would stop putting up with this excessive paranoiac behavior on the part of content producers (with government assistance, of course).

Hopefully it's not too late.

[JJ]

OK, that's two people out of 300 million reporting it in two locations (Dallas and Salt Lake City) out of 225 markets. Doesn't quite seem like a trend as much as a glitch.

OK, then its
Dallas
Salt Lake City
Atlanta
so far and just how many may still remain unreported...

[TyroneShoes]

But now that you've finally told us you have to...

[JJ]

Thought I gave it away
when I mentioned WGCL-DT earlier...

[moonman]

OK, then its
Dallas
Salt Lake City
Atlanta
so far and just how many may still remain unreported...
Add Kamakzie n Cedar Springs Mi
and Cheezmo in Plano Tx.

[Richard Chalk]

Is this happening only to units with 6.3a or is this a problem with 3.1 also? Neither of my 2 units have the 6.3a update yet, and have not had this problem with the Detroit OTA. I was willing to take my chances with the other reported problems, but if this is a result of 6.3a I am pulling the phone line. I for one will sacrifice speed for resolution any day!

I have three units, and only one has been updated to 6.3a. The others are at 3.1.5f.

I checked on Channel 201, as suggested by another post, and the message appears on all 3 units, so it clearly is not a 6.3a "improvement"

[phox_mulder]

No message on CSI:Miami last night.

Also checked random programs for the message and couldn't find it.
Jericho from last week, Heroes from last night, Criminal Minds from last week, CSI:NY from last week.

I'm wondering if it is dependant on what mode the TV/TiVo is turned on in,
if TV/TiVo in HDMI mode = no message,
if TV/TiVo in component mode = message, or vice versa?


phox

[nowandthen]

I saw "the message" on CBS's coverage of the 49ers vs. Chargers game this past Sunday, the 15th out of San Francisco affiliate KPIX. The game was 4:3 not 16:9 HD. I freaked out. I was pisssed when I read that message. However now I'm not sure if it was truely downrezzed since the 49ers are pretty awful these days and a friend with comcast also said it was in 4:3. The 49ers just aren't worth the extra electrons these days. :(

I hate watching sports is SD. CBS needs to get with the program and carry all NFL games in HD.

One reason we may not be seeing as many comments about "the message" is the title of this thread is not very informative as to it's content.

I didn't notice the upgrade to 6.3 until Monday night, but it could have happened over the weekend. It was not upgraded as of last Thursday.

[AbMagFab]

Look, whether CBS "network" is sending this or not, the only person sending this OTA is the local affiliate.

It's up to the local affiliate to *Not* send the broadcast flag, no matter what is coming from the network. If you're getting this error, call and complain endlessly to the local affiliate until they fix it.

Congress said this is illegal. The local affiliate is breaking the law by sending this signal OTA (the network is not breaking the law by including it on the satellite/network feed to the affiliates, and your receiver is doing nothing wrong by properly interpreting the flag).

If the local affiliate doesn't stop, complain to your local congressman/woman that the local affiliate is going against what Congress voted.

[Cheezmo]

What if it is a bug in the 6.3 software and not a broadcast issue at all. Has anyone seen the message on anything other than an HD Tivo running 6.3?

[AbMagFab]

What if it is a bug in the 6.3 software and not a broadcast issue at all. Has anyone seen the message on anything other than an HD Tivo running 6.3?

How many HD OTA DVR's that have component and HDMI out do you know of? I think I know of 2: HD DirecTivo and HD Tivo Series 3.

PC-based ones have yet to implement the broadcast flag since it doesn't matter. Tivo implemented it, but the broadcasters shouldn't be using it. If they are, it's their issue. Tivo is correctly responding to the flag, that shouldn't be used.

[Kamakzie]

What if it is a bug in the 6.3 software and not a broadcast issue at all. Has anyone seen the message on anything other than an HD Tivo running 6.3?

I never had an error until 6.3a and since the error I haven't seen a reoccurance.

[phox_mulder]

Look, whether CBS "network" is sending this or not, the only person sending this OTA is the local affiliate.

It's up to the local affiliate to *Not* send the broadcast flag, no matter what is coming from the network. If you're getting this error, call and complain endlessly to the local affiliate until they fix it.

Congress said this is illegal. The local affiliate is breaking the law by sending this signal OTA (the network is not breaking the law by including it on the satellite/network feed to the affiliates, and your receiver is doing nothing wrong by properly interpreting the flag).

If the local affiliate doesn't stop, complain to your local congressman/woman that the local affiliate is going against what Congress voted.

I believe the "copy never" flag is the one that is illegal for OTA broadcasts.

This is not that flag, if it was, we would never see it on a TiVo, as that is a copy.
It isn't even the "delete in 90 minutes" flag that the S3 TiVo's have been seeing,
and those were recorded from cable which isn't OTA.

This is something completely different, and I for one have yet to see it affect program quality in any way.
I've seen the message on 3 different shows, program quality did not change between HDMI and Component outputs.

How do you propose the Affiliate remove the flag to begin with?
Like I said in a previous post, 90% of the affiliates just send out what they get from the Network, no processing of any kind, so no way to mess with flags already in the signal.


phox

[chris_h]

One reason we may not be seeing as many comments about "the message" is the title of this thread is not very informative as to it's content.



Agreed. I suggested via PM to JJ to edit the tread title, but no such luck. Maybe a new thread with a reasonable title which points back to this one is in order?

[JJ]

Agreed. I suggested via PM to JJ to edit the tread title, but no such luck. Maybe a new thread with a reasonable title which points back to this one is in order?

Apparently
There is no way to change the title at this point, tried to edit it without sucess.

Please feel free to begin another thread with a better title. The original title was was simply my first reaction to seeing the poor picture and accompanying copyright message. If someone wants to start a fresh thread I have no specific love in my heart for this thread. I'm seeking a solution or specific evidence of who is responsible so I can take my complaints there...

[Richard Chalk]

What if it is a bug in the 6.3 software and not a broadcast issue at all. Has anyone seen the message on anything other than an HD Tivo running 6.3?

Scroll back to message 82

[AbMagFab]

I believe the "copy never" flag is the one that is illegal for OTA broadcasts.

This is not that flag, if it was, we would never see it on a TiVo, as that is a copy.
It isn't even the "delete in 90 minutes" flag that the S3 TiVo's have been seeing,
and those were recorded from cable which isn't OTA.

This is something completely different, and I for one have yet to see it affect program quality in any way.
I've seen the message on 3 different shows, program quality did not change between HDMI and Component outputs.

How do you propose the Affiliate remove the flag to begin with?
Like I said in a previous post, 90% of the affiliates just send out what they get from the Network, no processing of any kind, so no way to mess with flags already in the signal.


phox


It's the Broadcast flag for OTA, which can contain a number of different "commands", including all those you listed. Everything about the broadcast flag is now basically illegal, and can't be used, per Congress. It's the only way to tell Tivo to do anything with an OTA program, and per Congress, should not be used. And only the local affiliate can send it, since it's OTA from them.

The CC's have an equivalent. However, since this isn't FCC territory, they are allowed to do these things. They aren't supposed to be doing it, but they can. It's basically the same thing as the OTA Broadcast Flag, except that Congress hasn't said anything about it, and cable companies can, if they want, send it through. They presumably also have a way of automatically mapping the Broadcast Flag to the CC equivalent (especially since this was the main reason for developing the CC version to begin with). In any case, this is a wholly separate issue, and isn't illegal, and Tivo needs to respond to it properly. If there's an issue here, it's with the cable company.

So it both cases, it's the content broadcaster that is doing it, and they are the person to complain to. And yell at. However you have a much stronger argument with the OTA folks since it's illegal.

[supercomando]

I saw this last night on my local CBS station KYW-DT 3.1 Philadelphia, it was also showing up on the local FOX station WTXF-DT 29.1 during the baseball game. I am using the HR10-250 with component cables, I would be using HDMI but the port is not working. I am feeding it to my Sony 46" XBR3 and the picture did not look downrezzed to me. I hope they don't start doing that I'm sure there are tons of Tvs with component only or DVI like my 30"XBR910.

[bwaldron]

I hope they don't start doing that I'm sure there are tons of Tvs with component only or DVI like my 30"XBR910.

As has been posted above, there should be no restrictions on OTA content over component; this seems like a bug.

As fas as other "cable-type" content, we're pretty much at the mercy of our overlords. Yes, there are tons of displays w/o HDMI connections, and they would be stupid to restrict their use. But the content providers paranoia seems to be limitless these days, so nothing would shock me.

[chris_h]

Apparently
There is no way to change the title at this point, tried to edit it without sucess.



Interesting. I did not know that. Thanks for trying. I will start a new thread that points to this one.

[leesweet]

On the thread title issue:
There is a very small window of time where you can change the title of the first post and have it take and show in the thread title. I've done it successfully in the past (fix a typo, etc.), but you have to do it before the site indexes the thread or something, and it's less than five minutes before that happens... :)

So, after the fact like this, no way. The thread-starter can still change the title of post 1, but that won't change the actual thread title seen in the forum, as we've seen here.

[parzec]

The HR10-250 is unique in the sense that it doesn't really use the PSIP information sent by the OTA local afilliate for guide information. The show description comes entirely from DirecTV, so it seems possible that the flag is coming from DirecTV and not the OTA broadcaster. Any thoughts?

[JJ]

HR10-250
is not all that unique. Media Center, Myth TV, AccessDTV and others I have used accessed guide data from sources (Tribune, TitanTV. etc...) not from the broadcast PSIP information stream.

Since the text is not in the information when it is displayed in the 'now playing' menu it appears to be inserted into the program data only while video is present. Maybe this text is buried somewhere in the software. What invoked the resolution change and gets the message displayed is the real question. The reaction by the HR10-250 while the internal tuner, Voom and Media Center did not react is the reason for posting the questions.

If the flag was in the program data I would anticipate this issue to affect satellite broadcasts also. Based on posts here the sateloite signal is not affected. I don't really know if there is a difference in the program data based on the sources...

[AbMagFab]

HR10-250
is not all that unique. Media Center, Myth TV, AccessDTV and others I have used accessed guide data from sources (Tribune, TitanTV. etc...) not from the broadcast PSIP information stream.

Since the text is not in the information when it is displayed in the 'now playing' menu it appears to be inserted into the program data only while video is present. Maybe this text is buried somewhere in the software. What invoked the resolution change and gets the message displayed is the real question. The reaction by the HR10-250 while the internal tuner, Voom and Media Center did not react is the reason for posting the questions.

If the flag was in the program data I would anticipate this issue to affect satellite broadcasts also. Based on posts here the sateloite signal is not affected. I don't really know if there is a difference in the program data based on the sources...
The broadcast flag is in the OTA broadcast. Not sure if it's PSIP or actual program content, but it's in the OTA content.

And the HR10 does use PSIP information, but it also uses Tribune. They aren't exclusive.

[pforgey]

In Seattle, at least KIRO (CBS) and KING (NBC) are doing this. In all my otherwise HD shows recorded OTA from these two stations last week, I've gotten this message. The picture is most definitely down-rez'd. It's really obvious switching between programs recorded before and after they stating pulling this crap.

While the signal coming out the TiVo will be according to the resolution you have selected, internally it will be down-converted to 480p before going back up to 720p or 1080i again.

Guess my HD display which had an original purchase price of $8000 several years ago is no longer "approved of" by the powers that are f*cking with us. Is there a class action lawsuit I can join?

[Richard Chalk]

In Seattle, at least KIRO (CBS) and KING (NBC) are doing this. In all my otherwise HD shows recorded OTA from these two stations last week, I've gotten this message. The picture is most definitely down-rez'd. It's really obvious switching between programs recorded before and after they stating pulling this crap.

While the signal coming out the TiVo will be according to the resolution you have selected, internally it will be down-converted to 480p before going back up to 720p or 1080i again.

Guess my HD display which had an original purchase price of $8000 several years ago is no longer "approved of" by the powers that are f*cking with us. Is there a class action lawsuit I can join?

I looked up the current status of the Broadcast Flag issue, and came up with the following:

The FCC would be authorized to instate the Broadcast Flag, as of a Commerce Committee bill introduced in June, and provided the bill makes it into law. There are exceptions, but over-the-air transmission to home receivers without the proper inputs does not appear to be one of them.

Have a look at http://www.publicknowledge.org/node/316 and see if you all think I am reading this right...

[pforgey]

Then who do I realistically complain to, and what good would it do?

[Richard Chalk]

Then who do I realistically complain to, and what good would it do?


Well, I just sent a note to a state Senator - after all, they get to make the final decision...

We will soon know whether they represent the consumer, or Big Business.

[Cheezmo]

Then who do I realistically complain to, and what good would it do?

Your local affiliate (try to get in touch with an engineer at the station). It is most certainly not intentional and could even be a bug in the Tivo. I've been in contact with a local engineer who has been working with CBS to try to determine what is happening in these cases (only seen on the HR10-250 with 6.3 software as far as I know) but so far the only information is that is not intentional.

[bigmac94]

Well it appears to me the OTA Recordings are just that,Over the air,Not Sent By
Directv. However I Do have HTMI In use.
`Pears Y`All Might Just Be Shaking The Dog `cuz Its Growling.

[SpankyInChicago]

I received this message ("The copyright holder of this program permits viewing at less than high definition on component outputs") on a OTA broadcast of "The Great Fever" episode of "American Experience" on WTTW 11-1 (freq 47) PBS here in Chicago. 11-1 is 720p (downcoverted by WTTW from the 1080i national feed) and this episode aired on Wednesday night at 10PM.

I have contacted them to see if it was broadcast with a flag to do this or if Tivo made a mistake. WTTW is very good about responding to emails. We shall see what they say.

[Richard Chalk]

Well, I saw it on arecent (last day or two) episode of "The View" on our local ABC Affiliate, WLOS-DT in Asheville, NC. Also on one episode of "Ugly Betty", but not the most recent.

[SpankyInChicago]

Okay, I received a response back from the producers of American Experience and my local PBS station (WTTW) and they claim that there was no flag encoded in the source program or otherwise broadcast.

This seems like a Tivo issue. But I am guessing a tough one to ever get solved from the idiots in "technical" support at DirecTV.

And since my original post I have now seen this message on Frontline ("A Hidden Life") and on an episode of Jeopardy.