got sky broadband - now I can't see TiVo

[CarlWalters]

got sky broadband installed yesterday which all seemed to go well as I'm now getting about 10-12Mbps. However the installer put in the NetGear ADSL Wireless Router DG834GT and swapped all of the connections across from my NetGear WGR614 Wireless Router. But now my TiVo which is the next room connected into a NetGear WGE101 Wireless ethernet bridge is not visible. It doesn't appear in the attached devices list on the Administation page http://192.168.0.1/ of the new NetGear ADSL Wireless Router DG834GT. I'd have thought that with everything being NetGear and 802.11b&g compatible there shouldn't have been any problem? Anyone else experience anything like this? I've got to sort it out soonish as I changed TiVo to do daily calls over the internet :(

[Automan]

The Sky BB router is set to WPA wireless security which not all devices like.
This can be changed in the routers menu if need be.

Also of course Tivo has a static IP address so the Sky BB box must be set to the matching subnet of Tivo to avoid issues.

Automan.

[CarlWalters]

I tried setting the Sky Router up to use WEP instead of WPA-PSK (as it came out the box) the IP Subnet Mask is set to 255.255.255.0 which I think is right - but still no luck :(

[Automan]

What is the IP address of your Tivo?
If it is not 192.168.0.x (x being between 2 & 253) that may be your problem.

Automan.

[Pete77]

The Sky BB router is set to WPA wireless security which not all devices like. This can be changed in the routers menu if need be.

Netgear WGE101 can definitely only do WEP and not WPA security so the router definitely needs to be downgraded to the lower security standard for starters.

[CarlWalters]

my TiVo IP is 192.168.0.100 so that should be OK I think

[CarlWalters]

in the router setting page I've downgraded security to WEP, I've got WAP enabled, allow broadcast of SSID, WEP Authentication as Automatic/128 bit

still not luck though

[Benedict]

You've probably already checked this, but...

In "Wireless Settings" press the "Setup Access List" button to go to the Wireless station Access List.

If "Turn Access Control On" is selected you'll need to add the MAC address of your WGE101 to the list of trusted wireless stations. The DG834GT will reject wireless connections from devices that don't have a recognised MAC address.

[The Obo]

in the router setting page I've downgraded security to WEP, I've got WAP enabled, allow broadcast of SSID, WEP Authentication as Automatic/128 bit

still not luck though

I think the WGE101 might only support 64 bit WEP authentication.... ?

[CarlWalters]

You've probably already checked this, but...

In "Wireless Settings" press the "Setup Access List" button to go to the Wireless station Access List.

If "Turn Access Control On" is selected you'll need to add the MAC address of your WGE101 to the list of trusted wireless stations. The DG834GT will reject wireless connections from devices that don't have a recognised MAC address.

ah! I haven't done that. So I need to grab the MAC address (which I guess is on the bottom of the WGE101 somewhere?) and then add that as a trusted device on the DG834GT admin page? I'll try that tonight. I don't remember having to do that for the WGR614 router (maybe I did - it's a while ago :) )

[iankb]

I have an idea that the WGE101 assumes the MAC address of the first device to connect though it. Conversely, the first device to connect may assume the MAC address of the bridge, when viewed from the rest of the network. Either way, both devices appear to have the same MAC address. You should be able to see the MAC address allocated to the bridge from within the administration pages for it.

To see the MAC address for each IP address of recent connections, type 'arp -a' at the Windows command prompt.

[CarlWalters]

still no go :(

I changed the security to WEP 64 bit (Automatic) then in a DOS window I did "arp -a" but the only device that showed up was the second PC at 192.168.0.2 - TiVo at 192.168.0.100 didn't appear at all. Is there something I need to set up on the WGE101 itself perhaps?

[Pete77]

I changed the security to WEP 64 bit (Automatic) then in a DOS window I did "arp -a" but the only device that showed up was the second PC at 192.168.0.2 - TiVo at 192.168.0.100 didn't appear at all. Is there something I need to set up on the WGE101 itself perhaps?

Perhaps flogging the WGE101 on Ebay and getting a more modern wireless bridge that can support WPA security would be the answer?

[frogster]

Is there something I need to set up on the WGE101 itself perhaps?
If you have changed the router then are you sure you are using the same hex key and network name that the old one was using? If your new router has a new key and name and the 101 is looking for the old ones then you will have a long wait for them to connect.
The Netgear may be looking on a fixed channel too.

You don't need to worry about MAC addresses for those bridges, though of course you can use that instead of wireless security if you are having trouble.

[CarlWalters]

this could be it! The new Netgear ADSL Wireless Router DG834GT has a different SSID from my old WGR614. Connecting my PC up to the old WGR614 I can see there is a page to save the Router settings as a netgear.cfg file as a backup. I wonder if I did this on the WGR614 and then imported those settings into the DG834GT whether that would do the trick?

[Restorer]

I have just got Sky Broadband too though I don't have wireless. I have found the Tivo disappeared and the connected port light went out about 3 times this week for no apparent reason. The only way I could get it back was to reboot the Tivo.

I don't know whether this particular router is a bit flaky or if it's early teething problems with the connection but I have lost the internet a few times too and needed to reboot everything.

My Tivo problem I'm thinking may be related to the fact that I am using a crossover cable. I will get it converted to whatever you call a normal ethernet cable and see if the problem persists.

[frogster]

The new Netgear ADSL Wireless Router DG834GT has a different SSID from my old WGR614.Just change the SSID in the new router to match that of the old one. You will still need to change the hex key at one end or the other though.

Simplest option would be to connect the bridge to a PC directly and re-configure it to the new SSID and key.

[frogster]

I have just got Sky Broadband too though I don't have wireless. I have found the Tivo disappeared and the connected port light went out about 3 times this week for no apparent reason. The only way I could get it back was to reboot the Tivo.

My Tivo problem I'm thinking may be related to the fact that I am using a crossover cable.The Sky router is based on a Netgear DG834GT which is a very good router. Yours could be faulty though.
The type of cable should make no difference at all.

[CarlWalters]

So I unplugged the WGE101 from TiVo and brought it into the Study and plugged it directly into the Sky DG834GT Wireless Router. After doing this I could navigate to the WGE101 admin pageat 192.168.0.201 and change the WGE101 SSID and WEP key to match that set up on the Sky DG834GT. So far so good. But when I unplug the WGE101 from the DG834GT and plug TiVo back in then I still can't see TiVo wirelessly. I don't know what to try next to be honest.

[frogster]

I suspect that if you connect the bridge directly to a router then it will become a DHCP client, and that may upset the configuration. I don't use that particular model but with the WG602 access point/bridge/repeater you have to connect it directly to a PC (without a router) and give the PC a fixed IP to configure the access point.
Also it should present the NETGEAR SSID as a detected network in a drop-down box.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "seeing the Tivo wirelessly". Apart from a BASH prompt there isn't much to see, and not seeing it won't stop the Tivo from being able to get updates over the network. Have you tried a test call?

[CarlWalters]

sorry - when I said "not seeing TiVo wirelessly" I meant that it doesn't appear as an attached device on the Sky Router page and I can't ping it successfully or telnet in to it.

[blindlemon]

I assume you can "see" the TiVo if you plug it directly into the router with a cable? Have you tried putting a cheapo network switch between the TiVo and the bridge?

[NCG_Mike]

Perhaps a dumb question but is your new wireless network named the same as the old one?

Edit: Never mind...

FYI, a friend has just got the same Sky router and couldn't print from a Mac. IP address range was different from his old Belkin router.

[CarlWalters]

this is really bugging me now :(. I've brought the WGE wireless bridge into the study and put it next to the Sky ADSL Wireless Router DG834GT. I've turned off the old WGR614 (just in case that was causing a problem). I;'ve updated the WGE101 to the latest Netgear fimrware V3.1 rc2. I've set up the SSID and WEP key to be identical on both the WGE101 and the DG834GT. But all the WGE101 status page at 192.168.0.201 shows is

Network Name (SSID) CarlWilliamWalters
Connection Status Scanning
Signal strength 0%
Country / Region Europe
Channel Not connected
Security WEP On
Packet Statistics Receive: 0
Transmit: 32

IP Settings
IP Address 192.168.0.201
IP Subnet Mask 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway 192.168.0.1
IP Address Source Fixed

Bridge Information
Bridge Name netgear64fe
Mac Address XX:XX:XX:XX:XX
Firmware Version V3.1(RC2)


and it is indeed sitting there with the wireless light flashing which means (according to the manual) searching for an access point. And yet in the WGE101 admin page "Wireless networks available I can see my network OK


Network Name (SSID) channel Security Signal Mac Address(BSSID) Mode
CarlWilliamWalters 11(G) WEP 99% XXXXXXXXXXXX Access Point
Neighbours1 11(G) XXX 83% XXXXXXXXXXXX Access Point
Neighbours2 1(G) XXX 47% XXXXXXXXXXXX Access Point
Neighbours3 11(B) XXX 31% XXXXXXXXXXXX Access Point
Neighbours4 12(B) XXX 36% XXXXXXXXXXXX Access Point


so if my network is visible and the SSID and WEP are set up the same on the WGE101 and the DG834GT then why can it not connect? I'm baffled.

[Fred Smith]

There are three of you using channel 11. Just a thought have you tried another channel?

[Pete77]

Is there anything stopping you using your old router to conect to Sky's broadband? I know they like to impose a standard router to make it all KISS for their equally dumb customer service reps and that you have to let them send a Sky installer out to you and "install" their router.

But surely now the installer's gone away you can put your old router back in place and transfer the username and password settings across? Or do Sky not tell you what your username and password are?

Or does Sky's faster service rely on ADSL2+ and your older router didn't support ADSL2+? My Netgear DG834G is nearly 2 years old and can still handle ADSL2+ although BT have yet to make that facility available on their exchanges.

[CarlWalters]

There are three of you using channel 11. Just a thought have you tried another channel?
I can't seem find an option in the WGE101 to change the channel - I suppose I could change it in the Sky Router?

[Restorer]

Is there anything stopping you using your old router to conect to Sky's broadband? .

Sky do not give you access to your logon details - although I understand there is a way into it via a firmware upgrade.

[CarlWalters]

Is there anything stopping you using your old router to conect to Sky's broadband? I know they like to impose a standard router to make it all KISS for their equally dumb customer service reps and that you have to let them send a Sky installer out to you and "install" their router.

But surely now the installer's gone away you can put your old router back in place and transfer the username and password settings across? Or do Sky not tell you what your username and password are?

Or does Sky's faster service rely on ADSL2+ and your older router didn't support ADSL2+? My Netgear DG834G is nearly 2 years old and can still handle ADSL2+ although BT have yet to make that facility available on their exchanges.

Sky do give you the username and password but I don't know if I could use the old router Netgear WGR614 instead of the new Sky one? The Sky router seems to plug into an ADSL splitter box of some sort (has connections marked ADSL and Phone on one side - the Router plugs into the ADSL connector - and a "Line" connection on the other side which seems to go to an adapter marker "Sky TV do not unplug" and from there into the ADSL adapter into the phone socket)

[Restorer]

Sky do give you the username and password

That is only for accessing the website not for connecting. You definitely need to do some hacking to find that password. Sign up for what they call the Tech Talk section here (http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/index.php) and you can read all about it.

[CarlWalters]

I've definitely got the Router password because I remember I changed it from the default of admin/sky to something else. (Maybe I didn't get it from Sky though - perhaps I had a google for it - can't remember :))

[Pete77]

I can't seem find an option in the WGE101 to change the channel - I suppose I could change it in the Sky Router?

The channel number is set in the Sky router which transmits the channel. Your WGE101 then just has to try to connect with whatever channel numbers are available to it.

[CarlWalters]

OK I understand that now thanks. So I wonder if it's worth trying to change the Sky Router channel as a lot of neighbours seem to be on the same one?

[CarlWalters]

Nope :( Just changed the Sky ADSL Router to use Channel 10 which nobody nearby is using and the WGE101 is still searching for a connection.

[Restorer]

I've definitely got the Router password because I remember I changed it from the default of admin/sky to something else. (Maybe I didn't get it from Sky though - perhaps I had a google for it - can't remember :))

That's right - it comes in the box with username Admin and pw Sky. But that's just to access the router! To connect with another router you would need the password they have hidden!

[Pete77]

Nope :( Just changed the Sky ADSL Router to use Channel 10 which nobody nearby is using and the WGE101 is still searching for a connection.

Some channels don't work at all due to local interference in your area so try all the channels from 1 to 13.

[CarlWalters]

Some channels don't work at all due to local interference in your area so try all the channels from 1 to 13.
Aha! I tried Channel 1 and afetr a few minutes the WGE101 has stopped flashing and now its admin page says connected 99%. I've just tried plugging PC number 2 into the WGE101 and I can ping that successfully. Next step is to dismantle everything in here and move the WGE101 back to the TiVo.

Thanks Pete :)

[Pete77]

Aha! I tried Channel 1 and afetr a few minutes the WGE101 has stopped flashing and now its admin page says connected 99%. I've just tried plugging PC number 2 into the WGE101 and I can ping that successfully. Next step is to dismantle everything in here and move the WGE101 back to the TiVo.

Thanks Pete :)

I never have any luck with Channel 1 myself but it all depends on what other wifi stuff people are running locally. Channels 1 to 4 can clash with wireless television sender units and I have found if I use my tv sender it always blocked out any PC wifi connection using a lower wifi channel number.

According to Netgear's own help web page Channels 1, 7 and 13 are the best choice in Europe if you have any reception problems because they are the only channels that don't overlap to some extent with neighbouring channels.

See http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n101374.asp

In my area channel 13 gives by far the most stable reception so I have to use it despite my normally slightly superstitious tendencies. I have used other channels like 4, 6 and 7 which have seemed ok for a while and then one day or other find I have no reception at all due to some other locally transmitting interference suddenly turning up.

Also it pays to make sure you are using the very latest firmware for your Netgear router and wireless bridge as my Netgear DG834G has got much more stable over the last 2 years with the new firmware releases for the Netgear and the new software and drivers from Intel for my internal Centrino 811g wireless card on my HP notebook. I now never have any issues with a dropped connection but used to have a lot 2 years ago.

[CarlWalters]

nope I spoke too soon. I moved the WGE101 back onto the TiVo (only in the next room) and have the same problem :( I've now tried channel 7 and 13 with no luck. I noticed when I had the WGE101 in this room then the Wireless light would flash until something - PC #2 for example - was plugged into it. Then after a few seconds the wireless light would become steady and I'd be able to ping PC #2. I've tried a TiVo reboot too - but that dicn't improve things. :(

[Pete77]

Perhaps your Sky router is faulty and its wireless range is extremely limited and so not able to talk to your WGE101 in the way that your previous Netgear router did.

I bought a Linksys 811g wireless router and PCMCIA card from PC World where the signal fell to zero about 20 feet away from the router. Its replacement under warranty, which was the same model, worked normally.

Do you have any other wireless devices you can check with this router to see if they also have short range with it. The fact that the Sky router could see your WGE101 when it was near by shows that the problem is clearly poor range ability and not a fundamental block on wireless connectivity.

Perhaps its worth speaking to Sky to see if they will just arrange a straight swap out of the wireless router free of charge. Unless of course being Sky they insist on an "engineer" (aka Jo Cowboy) visit and that you will get charged for it if they decide the fault lies with your equipment.

[CarlWalters]

could be that I suppose. I've now tried going back to my original (pre-Sky install) setup with the WGR614 (into the NTL cable modem - speed about 2Mbps) and the WGE101 into the TiVo (via a Netgear hub). This was the setup I had working fine for more than a year. And what do you know - exactly the same problem :(. The WGR614 has the same SSID?WEP key as everything else. The Sky ADSL router is turned off just in case and the WGE101 is still sitting there flashing as it tries to find and access point. So I know

1. the WGE101 works (close to the Sky Router with something plugged in anyway)
2. The WGR614 can access the internet (via NTL Cable Modem)
3. The DG834GT can access the internet (via ADSL)


I'm beginning tio suspect TiVo now :(

[Pete77]

I'm beginning tio suspect TiVo now :(

No sounds to me more like that your WGE101 has coincidentally developed a fault at around the time the Sky router was installed.

If you could get hold of another wireless bridge that would be obviously the way to prove the point.

[Trinitron]

Jumping in with my 2penn'orth..

You could try a factory reset of the WGE101 (i.e. put paperclip in hole somewhere!) then turn off ALL security encryption settings on your Sky router, put in on Ch.7, and see if it will connect to it. Another "sounds stupid but works sometimes" routine is to power cycle everything before reconnecting.

I would normally suggest a reset of the Sky router as well but that's too risky if you don't have the ADSL password!

[CarlWalters]

right now I've had a good old sort out - prompted by the fact that I'd almost run out of guide data. I connected the TiVo directly into the Sky Router. (wires all over the place :)). Tried a test call - that worked fine :) Made a Daily call - that worked too (took a while to sort out the data though since I hadn't had a good call since 8 October.) Still at least I now had a few weeks guide data.

Then I decided to decomission the old Netgear WGR614 and the NTL Cable Modem and put them out of the way under the stairs. Moved the Sky ADSL Wireless ROuter back into the study, put it right next to the WGE101. Changed the SSID and Key on both to be the same. Powered up both and after a couple of minutes the WGE101 was being recognised as an attached device. Bingo! Next I moved the WGE101 back to the TiVo - powered it up and after a few minutes TiVo was showing as an attached device on the Skky Router. Marvellous. :D

Perhaps there was some sort of interference from the WGR614?

Anyway I tried out TiVoWeb http://192.168.0.100/tivo - All Good.
I checked that the orenosp service was running OK and then I tried TiVoWeb via orenosp https://127.0.0.1/tivo - Still good

Now the final test - TiVoWeb via my DynDNS server.

I set up the DG834GT Dynamic DNS settings
Service Provider www.dyndns.org
Host Name myhostname.dyndns.org
UserName myDynDNSusername
Password myDYnDNSpassword
checked the status and that was good

Then on DG834GT Services I added a custom service
name orenosp
type TCP/UDP
start port 443
end port 443

Finally in the DG834GT Firewall Rules I added

Inbound Service
orenosp
Allow Always
Send to LAN Server 192.168.0.2 (my PC running the orenosp service)

Outbound Service
orenosp
Allow Always
LAN Users - Single Address 192.168.0.2 (PC running the orenosp service)

I applied all the changes and then navigated to https://www.myhostname.dyndns.org:443/ and all I got was an unable to connect message. BUT when I tried http://myhostname.dyndns.org/ I get the start page of the Sky DG834GT Router!

That's pretty odd isn't it?

[Trinitron]

I applied all the changes and then navigated to https://www.myhostname.dyndns.org:443/ and all I got was an unable to connect message. BUT when I tried http://myhostname.dyndns.org/ I get the start page of the Sky DG834GT Router!

That's pretty odd isn't it?
No, I think that's what you should see! Are you trying to launch the URL from the same network? If you are then the ISP probably won't let the connection through ( I did find out why once upon a time but can't find the reason now) - if I want to check my dyndns settings I have to either use a proxy server or connect using my PDA.

The https link should fail; the other is of course linking to port 80 on the router.

I gave up using orenosp because I didn't want to keep a PC running all day, so just use bog standard port 80 pass through from the router directly to tivo.

[CarlWalters]

yes I'm trying to access from the same PC which is running the orenosp service (192.168.0.2) - so you reckon this should fail as described then?

I suppose I could try using the PSP wirelessly - would that work do you think?

[Trinitron]

If your PSP connects to the Sky wireless box, then no, you'll have exactly the same problem.

I still can't find a simple explanation why it doesn't work, but I know it's something to do with NAT, and the way external IP addresses are resolved: You are connecting to dyndns, who report back the IP address of your system. But because you are effectively trying to connect to yourself at the network end (i.e. the 'sending' IP - your router - is the same as the address at dyndns) it just bounces back to your router front page.

Another workaround I have used is to disconnect one PC from the network then use a dial-up link (you do have one as backup, don't you ;) ) - that will connect that PC with a different external IP address, so it should then be able to lookup your broadband address at dyndns and connect through to your Tivo. If you don't have a second PC, take orenosp out of the equation by setting up a link to Tivo via port 80 on your router. If that works, you can then put orenosp back and have a go at trying to connect externally.

Good luck!

[CarlWalters]

well I've just tried accessing TiVoWeb from here at work and it seems fine. So all is good :)

The transfer across to Sky Broadband is now complete :D

Mind you I have got a new Wireless bridge coming in the post - which I ordered when I thought the WGE101 was up the spout :( oh well I'm sure I'll find a use for it.

[Pete77]

Mind you I have got a new Wireless bridge coming in the post - which I ordered when I thought the WGE101 was up the spout :( oh well I'm sure I'll find a use for it.

All goods purchased by mail order can be returned for a full refund in the first 7 days although they can make you pay their postage as well as you having to pay postage back to them.

[CarlWalters]

I'll probably use it on the nipper's PC in his bedroom I think - save him using mine when he wants to play ToonTown :)

[CarlWalters]

I'm sure someone her told me this once - but I've forgotten and I can't seem to find the right message. So

Am I right in saying that if I have set up a dyndns account (mydomain.dyndns.org) and have my router allowing the orenosp service and the orenosp service forwarding port 433 requests to TiVoWeb - that I can't actually expect typing https://mydomain.dyndns.org

from my local to get me to TiVoWeb?

I know that typing
http://192.168.0.100/ gets me to TiVoWeb as does
https://127.0.0.1/

which seems to show that TiVoWeb and orenosp are all OK but
https://mydomain.dyndns.org/
gives an error about not being able to establish a connection with the server.

But I've got a nagging memory that it wasn't actually possible to do this from the same PC - but I can't remember why.

[Automan]

I think what you say should work even from a pc on the customer side of your sky router.

Assuming of course you have the router setup to update dyndns.org (under dynamic dns)and the relevant ports are set to forward to the ip of your tivo.

from the command prompt if you type ping mydomain.dyndns.org it should return the ip currently assigned to your sky router and thus your Tivo.

Automan.

[CarlWalters]

if I ping mydomain.dyndns.org then I get the same IP as reported when I check mydomain.dyndns.org at dyndns.org so I think that's correct. The router is set to update from dyndns.org in its Dynamic DNS settings and if I run show status on that (in router admin) then it says "IP address is the same, and does not need to be updated!" so that seems fine too.

It's just that I thought someone had said that it wouldn't work properly trying to access through a Dynamic DNS from the same PC that was running orenosp - but I might be wrong and I might have a real problem. I just don't have another PC to check it out with :)

[alexandromeda]

changed sky router ip from 192.168.0.1 to 192.168.1.1 now can conect to my tivo ip 192.168.1.69