No TivoToGo? Argh!!

[raygundan]

Well, I've been sitting on a chunk of change for two years waiting for the HD Tivo. I've been on a DTivo for years, and I was looking forward to getting back the cool networking features I gave up when my Series 1 died.

Sadly, it looks like I'll be waiting a while longer. I realize it's not Tivo's fault-- but I'm not buying something that doesn't do what I want. Sucks for them, sucks for me, sucks for the cable company I'm not going to be buying extra crap from. Who exactly are these rules benefitting?

Is there an ETA on re-enabling TTG for at least SD content? I was really, really hoping to be able to dump HD shows on the laptop for trips, but I guess that's a pipe dream.

[ah30k]

Who exactly are these rules benefitting?Answer: Creators of HD content that want their creativity protected from being illegally distributed around the world in HD quality via the internet.

One example would be the owners of the Sopranos who might lose DVD sales if HD quality recordings were flying around the internet.

[GoHokies!]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?

[raygundan]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?

If you're trying to be helpful, it's not working. I know where the search page *is*, but what I don't currently have is the correct search terms to get a meaningful answer to my question.

If you would be so kind as to post those instead of the obvious-to-anyone-over-4 link to the search page, it might be of some use.

[raygundan]

Answer: Creators of HD content that want their creativity protected from being illegally distributed around the world in HD quality via the internet.

One example would be the owners of the Sopranos who might lose DVD sales if HD quality recordings were flying around the internet.

In my case, they've cost themselves the money they'd get from a subscription to their premium channel. I'm not buying it on DVD (although I might hit up netflix), and I'm not likely to subscribe unless my Tivo can pick it up in HD. And I'm not likely to pick up an HD Tivo until it *at least* has the networking features the SD Tivo had.

It's like they really, really want me to not buy any of their products or services. I had more flexibility (but a lousy UI, admittedly) with a VCR in the '80s.

[GoHokies!]

Try the obvious to anyone-over-5 terms "S3" and TivoToGo"

Must not have tried very hard. :rolleyes:

[bicker]

In my case, they've cost themselves the money they'd get from a subscription to their premium channel.Uh, read it again. He said, "Creators of HD content..." not "Broadcasters of HD content..." You cannot possibly be important enough to creators of HD content to make up for the thousands of sales they won't make because someone put their content up on a torrent with HD quality.

It's like they really, really want me to not buy any of their products or services. Do without entertainment entirely if you wish.

[Dan203]

Check out this thread for more info....

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315850

Dan

[Fofer]

One example would be the owners of the Sopranos who might lose DVD sales if HD quality recordings were flying around the internet.


It'd be nice, then, if the TiVo was smart enough to still allow TiVoToGo and MRV to work with SD recordings. Or better yet, "downsample" the HD recordings to SD so they can be shuttled around my network for my personal enjoyment.

[GoHokies!]

FFS, can't you people read?

Reading the first post of the linked thread expains why this isn't so. Tivo being smart has nothing to do with it.

[Gregor]

Not sure if there's enough gas in the processor to record 2 HD streams, watch a third and downsample something.

It seems to do the 1st 3 OK though :)

[Dan203]

It'd be nice, then, if the TiVo was smart enough to still allow TiVoToGo and MRV to work with SD recordings. Or better yet, "downsample" the HD recordings to SD so they can be shuttled around my network for my personal enjoyment.

There isn't enough horsepower in the TiVo itself to do this. And if they pushed it over to a PC first to do the heavy lifting then they'd run into the same security problems they already have.

Dan

[Fofer]

FFS, can't you people read?

Reading the first post of the linked thread expains why this isn't so. Tivo being smart has nothing to do with it.

I didn't say "it'd be nice if TiVo, Inc. was smart enough."

I said, "it'd be nice, then, if the TiVo was smart enough."

Emphasis on "it'd be nice." (And you may read that as, "wishful thinking.")

So it comes down to CPU horsepower. And apparently, $800 doesn't buy you enough of it to handle the intelligence I'm wishing for. No problem, I understand. And I'll be waiting to purchase as a result. Either I'll get the features I'm looking for, or the price will come down. But in the meantime, I'm entitled to keep thinking wishfully. Or is that frowned upon here too?

I'm not sure who pissed in your Cheerios this morning, GoHokies!, but you're not coming off too kindly in this thread. Maybe a nap would cheer you up?

[raygundan]

Try the obvious to anyone-over-5 terms "S3" and TivoToGo"

Must not have tried very hard. :rolleyes:

I have no idea why some people feel the need to be self-appointed forum police. The time you took to be post twice could have been used to simply answer the question. Since I wasn't clear, let me reword my original post:

"Is there an ETA on re-enabling TTG for at least SD content?"

Oh, wait. That's not reworded at all! It's exactly what I wanted to know in the first place, and there isn't an up-to-date or authoritative answer in the threads that result from obvious searches. All that's there is message-board speculation and random guesses about an ETA.

I'm sorry if I broke some sort of rule, or offended you in some way by asking a question that you already knew the answer to.

[GoHokies!]

Good thing I wasn't trying to come off too kindly - there are already dozens of "No TTG!!!" and "Why can't the S3 work with DirecTV" threads created by people too lazy to do a little reading first.

And my point is the same regardless of how you look at it ("Tivo, Inc." vs. "the Tivo") - why spend a lot of time and money writing code to differentiate between the two when it isn't clear what, if any, modifications TTG is going to need to be approved by Cable Labs?

[GoHokies!]

I have no idea why some people feel the need to be self-appointed forum police. The time you took to be post twice could have been used to simply answer the question. Since I wasn't clear, let me reword my original post:

"Is there an ETA on re-enabling TTG for at least SD content?"

Oh, wait. That's not reworded at all! It's exactly what I wanted to know in the first place, and there isn't an up-to-date or authoritative answer in the threads that result from obvious searches. All that's there is message-board speculation and random guesses about an ETA.

I'm sorry if I broke some sort of rule, or offended you in some way by asking a question that you already knew the answer to.

Not trying to be the forum police at all. And it isn't important that I know the answer, it's that it is EASILY ABLE TO BE FOUND USING A SIMPLE SEARCH!!!

Don't be lazy and helpless and do something for yourself for a change.

You want an answer to your question? Read the thread that Dan (the real "Forum Police") posted and that you should have found instead of creating this worthless, redundant thread.

[raygundan]

Uh, read it again. He said, "Creators of HD content..." not "Broadcasters of HD content..." You cannot possibly be important enough to creators of HD content to make up for the thousands of sales they won't make because someone put their content up on a torrent with HD quality.

My apologies-- I thought HBO was the creator of the Sopranos. I guess I don't really know who makes it. And I certainly am not very important, just saddened by Tivo getting beaten into submission by content producers.

Do without entertainment entirely if you wish.

Fortunately, high-definition cable television is not the only form of entertainment available.

[Fofer]

Don't be lazy and helpless and do something for yourself for a change.

Heh. You're a funny one.

[raygundan]

Not trying to be the forum police at all. And it isn't important that I know the answer, it's that it is EASILY ABLE TO BE FOUND USING A SIMPLE SEARCH!!!

Don't be lazy and helpless and do something for yourself for a change.

You want an answer to your question? Read the thread that Dan (the real "Forum Police") posted and that you should have found instead of creating this worthless, redundant thread.

Why are you so angry about this? I searched, and found no definite confirmation. I found the thread Dan linked. I found a couple of others. None of them give even estimated dates from anything like a reliable source. So I posted and asked. A simple answer would have sufficed. Does anyone have a link to a source that isn't just some guy speculating in this forum, with an actual ETA?

You'll kindly note that the thread Dan was nice enough to link me to mentions waiting, but does not give the ETA I'm looking for.

I'm not mad at you, or tivo, or the sopranos, or Dan, or TivoPony, or anyone except CableLabs. All I wanted was a quick heads-up on whether or not an ETA had come about since TivoPony's two-week-old posting.

[GoHokies!]

Not angry at all (except maybe at Fofer, who seems to have nothing to contribute) - you'll note in all of the threads the speculation is based on the fact that nobody knows when CL is going to make their decision.

So, until Cable Labs comes out with something, there will be no answer.

[Fofer]

{{{{GoHokies!}}}}

Please don't be angry at me.

[GoHokies!]

Since you said "please" :)

[Fofer]

See that, gang?

We can all just get along.

:cool: :up:

[ah30k]

I had more flexibility (but a lousy UI, admittedly) with a VCR in the '80s. And you never had HD quality with your old VCR. HD changes the whole game. The minute you can transfer shows without loss of quality, the rules change. You may not like it, but there IS a reason. The content owners would gladly give you up as a customer in order to protect their rights.

[raygundan]

Not angry at all (except maybe at Fofer, who seems to have nothing to contribute) - you'll note in all of the threads the speculation is based on the fact that nobody knows when CL is going to make their decision.

So, until Cable Labs comes out with something, there will be no answer.

Wow, that's worse than I thought. I figured at least this was some sort of process with a visible end date, even if it was far away.

I know tivos are great-- I've had one since the 14GB days. But why should I buy an $800 tivo instead of just using an S2 and doing my HD recording on a cableco box? I was really hoping to have it all integrated, but it seems like that's a no-go for the forseeable future. It makes me sad. :(

[raygundan]

And you never had HD quality with your old VCR. HD changes the whole game. The minute you can transfer shows without loss of quality, the rules change. You may not like it, but there IS a reason. The content owners would gladly give you up as a customer in order to protect their rights.

I'd settle for VCR-quality portability, but we don't even get that. Sure, there's a reason. But it's a lousy one. It is at best a short-term stopgap until analog recapture hardware for HD bandwidth reaches the end-user market. After which, we'll be right back where we started.

[jjarmoc]

I was looking forward to getting back the cool networking features I gave up when my Series 1 died.

Point of fact - if you had a series 1, you never had the 'cool networking features' in the first place.

[ah30k]

Sure, there's a reason. But it's a lousy one. Depends on your POV!

[raygundan]

Point of fact - if you had a series 1, you never had the 'cool networking features' in the first place.

I had to put the network card in myself, but tivo was nice enough to have the drivers already installed. Worked like a charm until lightning did it in.

[jjarmoc]

I had to put the network card in myself, but tivo was nice enough to have the drivers already installed. Worked like a charm until lightning did it in.

I've got a hacked S1 sitting not 10 feet from me.. Sure, it's got a network card, but no tivo-to-go, no MRV, no remote scheduling (aside from tivoweb), no yahoo integration, live365, etc..

It has some network capability, but to say you're losing 'cool networking features' is a bit of a stretch.

Besides, the S3 has been out what, 2 weeks now? Hasn't been any time for hacks yet..

[bicker]

But why should I buy an $800 tivo instead of just using an S2 and doing my HD recording on a cableco box?(I felt the same way, but we will miss Boston Legal in HD and Lost's clip show in HD this week, because our Motorola 3412 failed us for the first time, and due to "ghost" scheduled recordings, didn't allow us to schedule either to be recorded. (They're both broadcast after our bed-time. ;) ) That never happens on our TiVos. It is just not worth the bother, trying to get Motorola to fix their software, and my wife feels that it's worth the money not to have to deal with such silliness. I still think it isn't really worth $800, but it's only off by a couple of hundred dollars, and we would end up paying that much to Comcast in rental on the Motorola box in the next year anyway. That helps make it (marginally) worth not having my wife get upset about missing her favorite programs.

[chain777]

I felt the same way, but we will miss Boston Legal in HD and Lost's clip show in HD this week, because our Motorola 3412 failed us for the first time, and due to "ghost" scheduled recordings, didn't allow us to schedule either to be recorded. (They're both broadcast after our bed-time. ;) ) That never happens on our TiVos. It is just not worth the bother, trying to get Motorola to fix their software, and my wife feels that it's worth the money not to have to deal with such silliness. I still think it isn't really worth $800, but it's only off by a couple of hundred dollars, and we would end up paying that much to Comcast in rental on the Motorola box in the next year anyway. That helps make it (marginally) worth not having my wife get upset about missing her favorite programs.

You gave up $800 because of one failure? And you think the S3 is going to be rock solid perfect in the initial release like your older units that have been though countless updates?

I know you're trying to justify the $800 (not to mention the monthly fees, or additional $200 for the LT transfer), but there's no way it's cheaper in the long run. It's going to take a long time to recover that kind of dough at $10 a month. In fact it will never happen.

You need to look at the move like getting a new car. It's never cheaper than keeping the old one, but you hope the experience will be worth the extra money spent. If you're satisfied you made the right desicion a year from now, you made the right decision.

[jab1981]

And you never had HD quality with your old VCR. HD changes the whole game. The minute you can transfer shows without loss of quality, the rules change. You may not like it, but there IS a reason. The content owners would gladly give you up as a customer in order to protect their rights.

If that were true I don't think content providers would be fighting Tivo and dvrs in general as much as they have been. These people tried just as hard to cripple standard definition TV, only they could never get enough control. You act as though up until HD content creators were happy to have their shows recorded. That's never been the case. It has nothing to do with recording quality and everything to do with selling a product. All HD did was allow them to insert copy protections right out the gate. It gave them a good insertion point to start crippling how we choose to watch TV. And I'm certain it won't be long until they actually do start automatically deleting shows at certain times or after a certain amount of playback. They aren't protecting their rights... They're trying to figure out how to seperate you from your money.

I think more than anything the lucrative DVD market is to blame. Once they realized the profit they could make selling you the TV show after the fact, they had ZERO incentive to be supportive of any sort of recording. You're 100% right that they won't care about losing a customer... but not because they want to protect their rights... it's because they know by doing this the next guy will pay $50 for the DVDs.

[bicker]

You gave up $800 because of one failure?It isn't my money. As I've mentioned, I'm not particularly in favor of the S3 at this price; but my wife is. And it's her bonus we're spending. And she's my wife. As it is, it isn't $800, because of the $324 per year we currently spend to work around our lack of a reliable HD DVR. So it's really just $476. In that context, it is still too expensive, for me, but only by $76, the way I see things. $76 isn't too much of a premium to be first-on-the-block.

And you think the S3 is going to be rock solid perfect in the initial release like your older units that have been though countless updates? Seems doubtful, but at least there is a place to go to register bugs, whereby those bugs will be addressed. Comcast's CSRs don't even know how to log bugs we find in iGuide.

I know you're trying to justify the $800 (not to mention the monthly fees, or additional $200 for the LT transfer), but there's no way it's cheaper in the long run.Absolutely correct. Anyone who thinks that they're going to "save money" by switching to S3 is crazy. The better arguments are those that acknowledge the trade-off in value between inconvenience, frustration, and disappointment, which while not non-existent with the S3, are likely to be lower. Lower by how much? Dunno. Again, my wife and I differ on this, but even just for me, given our best guess at the probabilities in volved, the difference isn't that far from reasonable.

It's going to take a long time to recover that kind of dough at $10 a month.Again, correct. However, at $27 per month, it won't take as long. In fact it will happen within three years.

You need to look at the move like getting a new car. It's never cheaper than keeping the old one, but you hope the experience will be worth the extra money spent. Absolutely.

If you're satisfied you made the right desicion a year from now, you made the right decision.No, I cannot accept this. Hindsight is always 20/20. Whether a decision is the correct one is always exclusively based the information available at the time.

[bicker]

They aren't protecting their rights... They're trying to figure out how to seperate you from your money.As any responsible corporate director is obligated to do.

You're 100% right that they won't care about losing a customer... but not because they want to protect their rights... it's because they know by doing this the next guy will pay $50 for the DVDs.So what you're saying is that they wouldn't be losing a customer -- that there is no down-side for them to make you comply with their current wishes with regard to your use of their property.

In the end, think about what your point is. From what I can tell, your point is that you're unhappy that you have to pay for things that you used to get for free. I think everyone can respect your unhappiness. The problem, perhaps, is the tone of your messages -- you seem to be trying to insinuate that they're doing something wrong, when in reality they're doing what they're supposed to be doing.

[raygundan]

I've got a hacked S1 sitting not 10 feet from me.. Sure, it's got a network card, but no tivo-to-go, no MRV, no remote scheduling (aside from tivoweb), no yahoo integration, live365, etc..

It has some network capability, but to say you're losing 'cool networking features' is a bit of a stretch.

Besides, the S3 has been out what, 2 weeks now? Hasn't been any time for hacks yet..

I had remote scheduling via tivoweb and the ability to move shows to my PC, but not MRV. Those weren't built -in, but required some minor fiddling to get set up. Of course, it's one thing to void your warranty on a cheap box, and another altogether to start modifying a piece of $800 equipment.

As to the other features, I didn't even know they existed. I have a very short list of things I want from my PVR:

1. Record shows reliably
2. Reasonable UI
3. export shows to DVD and/or PC
4. watch recorded shows in another room, although doing so via #3 is acceptable

[hookbill]

Stupid question....I just got the S3 previous D-TiVo person...what's TiVo To Go?

[Fofer]

Stupid question....I just got the S3 previous D-TiVo person...what's TiVo To Go?

The legal and easy (ie: no hacking needed) ability to download shows off the TiVo to your computer for viewing elsewhere. And also to copy them to your iPod/PSP.