Why do you care "where a show is going?"

[DevdogAZ]

OK, I'm starting this thread after seeing several comments in the last few days in threads about pilot episodes. Basically, I've seen several people mention that they're not sure if they'll like the show because they can't see "where it's going to go" or "how it's going to sustain the storyline for 22 episodes (or multilple seasons, etc.)."

My questions are: Why do you care? Why are you trying to figure out what the endgame is? Isn't the whole point of watching TV to be entertained by the storytelling? If you watch a show and the story intrigues you, don't try to figure out what the ultimate end to the story is going to be, just sit back, trust in the writer/creator/director/network, and enjoy.

Sure, it's possible that you could get burned by watching a low-rated show that gets cancelled before it concludes, but why worry about that now? Simply save some eps on your TiVo and watch the ratings to see if it's doing well.

But why try to figure out if the writers have enough material for a whole season or if the storyline is sustainable? That's not for us to worry about. That's the writers' problem. If they don't do their job well, don't watch the show. But if you like the pilot, or the first couple of episodes, don't try and outthink the networks by trying to figure out what's going to happen. Just enjoy what's being presented.

[terpfan1980]

I think there is a somewhat natural fear that getting into a show that seemingly has "no place to go" will leave one feeling unfulfilled as a viewer if the show winds up cancelled or if the viewers drop it like a hot rock.

If a show "jumps the shark" very early in it's life then what do you do to get back the time you wasted watching it?

That would seem to be the issue with people that are questioning where some of these shows will go and how they'll be sustainable.

[Bob_Newhart]

This is why I generally only watch 30 minute sitcoms. I don't have to follow a continuing storyline and each episode survives on its own.

If I watched all the shows where you have to watch every single episode in order, I would never read any books.

[ewolfr]

With all the serials this season I don't want to get involved and then have the network pull the show out from under me. I have 4-5 season passes that i wont watch until I see promises that the shows will run the whole season. This isn't the first time I have done this, I refused to watch Prison Break last year until I saw it was coming back for the second half to wrap everything up.

[DevdogAZ]

With all the serials this season I don't want to get involved and then have the network pull the show out from under me. I have 4-5 season passes that i wont watch until I see promises that the shows will run the whole season. This isn't the first time I have done this, I refused to watch Prison Break last year until I saw it was coming back for the second half to wrap everything up.
I have no problem if you want to wait to make sure the show will be around for a full season. However, that's not the question I'm asking. I want to know why people care or try to figure out where the story is going or what the overal premise is going to be. Do you read the last page of a book before the middle? Do you watch the end of a movie before the rest? Just enjoy the show for what it is "right now" and make your determination each week whether you want to keep watching based on what you have seen, not based on what your imagination can come up with for the rest of the story.

[gchance]

This reminds me of my 4-year-old while we were watching Jericho.

<bomb goes off>
"Why are they scared?"
"A bomb blew up."
"Oh."

<people scared after commercial>
"Why are they scared?"
"The bomb blew up, remember?"
"Oh, yeah."

<car crashes>
"Why did it crash?"
"They weren't paying attention. They were watching the bomb."
"Oh."

<bus found crashed>
"Why is the bus stopped?"
"It ran into a deer."
"Oh. But why?"
"The deer was scared."
"Why?"
"The bomb..."
"Oh."

Greg

[phox_mulder]

I think there is a somewhat natural fear that getting into a show that seemingly has "no place to go" will leave one feeling unfulfilled as a viewer if the show winds up cancelled or if the viewers drop it like a hot rock.

Night Stalker, Threshold, John Doe, Surface, Invasion.
(to name a few that stick out)

All cancelled, some in the middle of the season, others at the end of the season,
but still leaving the viewers hanging.

I for one don't want to waste time and TiVo space
watching something that I won't be able to see to it's natural conclusion.

There's a number of shows that could do that this year, easily.

Of course, I'm recording them and watching them, it's too hard to tell anymore what will make it and what won't.


phox

[DevdogAZ]

Night Stalker, Threshold, John Doe, Surface, Invasion.
(to name a few that stick out)

All cancelled, some in the middle of the season, others at the end of the season,
but still leaving the viewers hanging.

I for one don't want to waste time and TiVo space
watching something that I won't be able to see to it's natural conclusion.

There's a number of shows that could do that this year, easily.

Of course, I'm recording them and watching them, it's too hard to tell anymore what will make it and what won't.


phox
Again, if you see an indication from the writing, acting, or ratings that tells you the show might not make it to the end of the season, I understand the concern.

However, after the pilot episode, to ask whether the story is sustainable is kind of shortsighted. Have a little faith that the writers/creators have thought ahead and will be able to tell the story over the course of a season. Or that they have thought about the premise and determined that there is enough of a story to tell.

[jerobi]

I have no problem if you want to wait to make sure the show will be around for a full season. However, that's not the question I'm asking. I want to know why people care or try to figure out where the story is going or what the overal premise is going to be. Do you read the last page of a book before the middle? Do you watch the end of a movie before the rest? Just enjoy the show for what it is "right now" and make your determination each week whether you want to keep watching based on what you have seen, not based on what your imagination can come up with for the rest of the story.

Name a show you watch. Odds are good that it has some repeatable, expected funny element and/or conflict and/or mystery as the crux of the show.

Now destroy or dilute that element in the 3rd episode, and give the audience either nothing new or a much weaker element.

The reason you started watching is because there was something compelling that caught your interest. If that piece is negated or removed, and nothing replaces it, you lose most of the reason to watch the show. That's why people care and try to look ahead. They don't want to see the show that they're currently enjoying ruined by some bad writing.

[marksman]

I have done it before, but not in a way that would disuade me from watching a show. I wondered if 24 would be able to sustain itself, for example, but I still watch it. I thought the same thing about Lost, but I don't watch that anymore for other reasons.

I don't really care if a show I am watching gets canceled. Although if it does the odds of me watching any episodes I have not yet seen plummets. As a viewer to a show with an on-going story you do make a bit of an investment. You invest yourself in the show now hoping to be paid off for your viewing and attentitiveness down the road. That clue or call back that would only make sense to someone who has watched the show carefully. If you don't see a tomorrow, it can be less enticing to watch today.

Let us take Friday Night Lights for instance. I have not seen it yet, but one might assume a season MIGHT take place over a football season. I don't know if that will be the case, but regardless, I might invest myself in the story and the show to see how the story progresses. Part of that might be to see how this fictional team peforms over time. If I watch a few episodes and see them set me up for the payoff, and then never get the payoff. That would be disappointing.

Unfortunately good writing will span across the life of a series, so if a show is terminated early, you might have gotten a lot of the build-up, backstory and other background that serves to make the rest of the story more interesting, but never get to the interesting part.

[EchoBravo]

Night Stalker, Threshold, John Doe, Surface, Invasion.Thanks for reminding me of Threshold. :rolleyes:










:D

[classicsat]

Don't forget Renunion. I really miss that one.

[DreadPirateRob]

I'm with you, devdogaz (which in my head I always pronounce dev-do-gaz, no matter what ;)).

All I care about is "Do I like the show right now? Does it entertain me? Is it worth the hour (well, +/- 42 minutes) that I put into it every week?" If the answer to all these questions is yes, I could care less where the show is going. If it starts to suck, I'll make a decision then about whether I want to continue watching.

[classicX]

I don't know about you, but my TV time is very limited. I don't have a lot of time to invest in serialized shows, because once I start watching, I have to continue watching.

It's a real pain when something gets cancelled in the middle of the season, a la John Doe. I really loved that show.

[DreadPirateRob]

But you're going to spend that time anyways. If the show entertains you right now, then watch, and be satisfied with the fact that you're currently entertained by it. And quit pretending that time you spend watching TV is any more valuable than time you spend on the crapper.

Look at Firefly - in my opinion, one of the best series ever created. And it was cancelled 14 episodes in, which meant that a lot of plot lines and background stories were going to be left unresolved, sequel movie or no. Does that mean you shouldn't watch it? Of course not. Those are some of the best hours you will even spend watching anything on TV. I couldn't imagine anything else to be more worthwhile to watch, abrupt cancellation or no.

[DevdogAZ]

I'm with you, devdogaz (which in my head I always pronounce dev-do-gaz, no matter what ;)).
LOL. I should have added some caps in there so it would look like DevdogAZ. My first name is Devon, my friends call me Devdog, and I live in Arizona. So feel free to say it how you want, but that's what it means. ;)

And thanks for backing me up. I think most of the replies here are addressing a completely different issue. Perhaps people are unable to separate the two issues (where a show is going / whether a show will be cancelled) but I see them completely different. If a show is going to get canned, you can USUALLY see that coming with poor ratings. However, a show that is well written will not allow you to guess where it is going, and that's what I like in a show. I don't want my TV to be predictable, and I trust that if it made it through the entire process to get on the air, there is enough of a concept to sustain the story for a certain period of time. It's not my job to figure out what that concept is.

[DougF]

I think we just tend to want longevity in our shows. If we get too much, too quickly, we become concerned that it's going to run out of steam and what started out great will end up crappy and we'll feel like that initial time was wasted.

This post brought to you by Run-On-Sentence Man.

[mrpantstm]

While I am not looking to see the end game of a show, I do consider 'where a show is going?' when viewing episodes whether it's a new show or an old. I certainly can't predict where the show will definitly go but if the writer has done their job right I should have a good idea where it will go. And sometimes that will keep me watching the show, other times it won't.

Personally, I didn't see where Prison Break would go after season one, so I only watched two or three episodes in passing. Saw an episode from this season in passing as well and still couldn't get hooked because I didn't "see where it was going" so it's not a show I'll tune in for.

Where a show is going isn't a premonitition of what will happen in the show. From the character development and story that's been shown, a viewer should be able to know roughly where a show is going and whether that direction is something they want to watch.

[Jonathan_S]

The way the networks spread out their new shows is another reason for someone to try to guess if a particular show is going to hold up over time. (Most of the time if someone posts here saying "where is this show going" they aren't really asking for the plot for the rest of the season, they are wondering if there is going to be a coherent plot at the end of the season)

Unless you have a lot of available tuners (or are planning to pull down the various pilot episodes from bittorrent) watching show 'A' next week likely means skipping one or more other pilot episodes.

So you can try to guess, is this show going to go anywhere interesting; or would it have worked better an a made for TV movie or mini-series.
Should I watch next week or gamble on finding something more interesting?

Basically, is this show going to be interesting enough by mid season, or by the end of the season, that I would prefer it to everything else on at the same time. Or is watching it going to cause me to miss the first half season of the next Veronica Mars or Arrested Development. (Which would make it hard to pick up the better show later on)

[terpfan1980]

But you're going to spend that time anyways. If the show entertains you right now, then watch, and be satisfied with the fact that you're currently entertained by it. And quit pretending that time you spend watching TV is any more valuable than time you spend on the crapper.

Look at Firefly - in my opinion, one of the best series ever created. And it was cancelled 14 episodes in, which meant that a lot of plot lines and background stories were going to be left unresolved, sequel movie or no. Does that mean you shouldn't watch it? Of course not. Those are some of the best hours you will even spend watching anything on TV. I couldn't imagine anything else to be more worthwhile to watch, abrupt cancellation or no.

There is a huge difference, though, in a show like Firefly where most of the episodes were self contained stories and shows like Vanished, Kidnapped, Lost, 24, and other shows that are serialized and stretched out over long seasons.

With Firefly you had stand alone stories where you didn't really have to know anything about what had happened before. Sure, knowing prior events enhanced the experience in seeing future episodes but you didn't have to know.

With serialized shows you normally do have to know what happened before, and what could happen next. You are sold on watching the future episodes by the promise of what will happen next and if there's no good reason to watch future episodes, why bother?

We are a relatively long way from the days when a show like the Fugitive makes sense, though, again, Prison Break is following in the same general pattern. For most viewers the amount of suspension of disbelief is just too great to overcome on a regular basis.

On the other hand though, if fans know in advance a bit about the show -- like Kidnapped, Lost, 24, etc. -- and understand in advance that the show is mapped out over time, then it's easier to make the assumption that someone, somewhere, has a plan for how things are going. I think the big thing is knowing that there is a plan and not just a a group of monkeys writing scripts that don't tie things up and resolve anything along the way.

Regarding monkeys and scripts, I guess it's easy to make the leap to looking at the craptastic series Enterprise before Manny Coto got there. Viewers just didn't buy into the crap fest that Beavis and Butthead, I mean Berman and Braga, were putting out there and many abandoned the ship well before Coto got there. They didn't like where it seemed that things were heading and didn't buy into the show as entertainment that was worth using time for.

[PeternJim]

Everybody has to define the terms for themselves, and I don't personally USE the term "where is it going?" -- but I do understand the concept.

Take a show like one that just premiered -- The Class. The premise of the pilot is that a bunch of people who first met in 3rd grade (many who haven't seen each other since) are gotten together by a former classmate to surprise his girlfriend. Okay.... And they are a delightfully diverse and wacky group that have pretty much nothing in common except for that. Okay...

So, where is it going? For me, it isn't so much the question of what the plots are going to be -- that fits the "just enjoy it for itself" theory.

But, fair or not, right or not, sensible or not, a show needs to fit its own rules or it just gets tiresome to watch. Those rules can vary from "must be completely realistic" (a law or crime drama) to "don't expect it to make sense, just enjoy it" -- (Gilligan's Island, as a prime example).

What I want to know is, before I start to care about the characters and bother to get to know them, do I have a reasonable expectation that I am going to enjoy the effort?

Give me a show with a killer cast and great writing in the pilot (3rd Rock From the Sun, My Name is Earl, Firefly, X-Files), and I trust you to keep it lively and interesting, whether I think the story arc is predictable or not.

Give me a great concept, but require me to put in the time to get to know the characters and the show's rules, and even with some so-so pilot performances, I'll stick around, as long as I can trust you to take me somewhere interesting.

But give me average writing, average acting, and no idea where the show is going, and I'm gonna wonder, "Why bother?" -- or in other words, "where is the show going?" Is the destination worth putting in the effort to let the show find itself?

[Vito the TiVo]

Answer in two words: X-Files

Loved it, loved it, loved it less, then Mulder left and I couldn't be bothered any more.

If it had ended in a movie five years in, it would have been remembered as a great piece of television, now its more like the example Lost should NOT follow.

People feel as if their time was wasted and their love of the characters and show betrayed. If LOST turns out that it was all Hurley dreaming while working at the Chicken Shack, wouldn't you feel cheated? Like you spent a lot of time on a story that was nothing?

But then again the business of television means that LOST people would have already made their money and that's that. Its not like a terrible movie ending that can ruin the BO by word of mouth and subsequent video sales. If LOST peters out or ends badly, all that happens is that the very last box set doesn't sell. And people bad mouth it... but the money has been made.

Keep in mind that 99% of television is simply made up by the writers as they go.

[Rosincrans]

Answer in two words: X-Files

Loved it, loved it, loved it less, then Mulder left and I couldn't be bothered any more.

If it had ended in a movie five years in, it would have been remembered as a great piece of television, now its more like the example Lost should NOT follow.
The X-Files did end with the movie. All the other episodes were part of Hurley's delusion.

[DevdogAZ]

Answer in two words: X-Files

Loved it, loved it, loved it less, then Mulder left and I couldn't be bothered any more.

If it had ended in a movie five years in, it would have been remembered as a great piece of television, now its more like the example Lost should NOT follow.

People feel as if their time was wasted and their love of the characters and show betrayed. If LOST turns out that it was all Hurley dreaming while working at the Chicken Shack, wouldn't you feel cheated? Like you spent a lot of time on a story that was nothing?

But then again the business of television means that LOST people would have already made their money and that's that. Its not like a terrible movie ending that can ruin the BO by word of mouth and subsequent video sales. If LOST peters out or ends badly, all that happens is that the very last box set doesn't sell. And people bad mouth it... but the money has been made.

Keep in mind that 99% of television is simply made up by the writers as they go.
This is exactly the attitude that I simply can't understand. Sure, The X-Files wasn't as good as the series progressed, and once Mulder left it was pretty much crap, but that doesn't mean that I'm unhappy I watched the show for several years. It was a great show and I enjoyed each episode, some more than others, but overall it was a great show.

If LOST doesn't end in a way that I think befits the series, it doesn't change the fact that I have immensely enjoyed the series up until that point.

It almost seems as if people are viewing their TV watching as an investment and they won't know if it was a good investment until they cash it in at the end. This is simply not the way to look at it. Each time you sit down to watch a show, you should be able to decide if that hour was enjoyable. If so, then great. If not, then you probably shouldn't watch that show next week. Either way, you're not getting the time back. You won't gain anything by having watched a good series instead of a bad one, and watching a bad one doesn't take any more time than a good one.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that you can't judge an entire series until it's over. Until then, all you can do is judge each individual episode. Attempting to look ahead and decide how you'll feel about a show in the future, without having watched the show, is simply wasting time and effort.

Watch your shows, decide if you enjoy them, and then keep watching or don't depending on your evaluation of that episode, not what your perception is of what future episodes will be.

[pdhenry]

I'm with you, devdogaz (which in my head I always pronounce dev-do-gaz, no matter what ;)).I always read as "devva-dogz."

[DaveBogart]

...don't try and outthink the networks by trying to figure out what's going to happen. Just enjoy what's being presented.ok, I'm sorry.

[classicX]

But you're going to spend that time anyways. If the show entertains you right now, then watch, and be satisfied with the fact that you're currently entertained by it. And quit pretending that time you spend watching TV is any more valuable than time you spend on the crapper.

Look at Firefly - in my opinion, one of the best series ever created. And it was cancelled 14 episodes in, which meant that a lot of plot lines and background stories were going to be left unresolved, sequel movie or no. Does that mean you shouldn't watch it? Of course not. Those are some of the best hours you will even spend watching anything on TV. I couldn't imagine anything else to be more worthwhile to watch, abrupt cancellation or no.

My time is valuable, no matter what I'm doing. If I like a show, I'll make time for it. I won't just watch it because there's nothing else to do - there is ALWAYS something else to do.

As far as firefly goes, each show stood on its own - it wasn't serialized. If it was on, I could watch it. If I missed one or two episodes, no big deal. A serialized show requires me to watch every week - so it has to be that much more entertaining to hold my interest.

This is why I stopped watching "Vanished." It was just OK (not terrible), but being that I would have to "catch up" by watching older shows, I just decided I didn't have time for it and would watch something else instead. Add to that the fact that I don't think it will last through the season, why should I waste my time?

For the record, I DO watch serialized shows (Prison Break, 24, BSG) and semi-serialized shows (Stargate SG1 / Atlantis).

If the show is good, I will make time to watch it. <- sounds like a good sig, eh?

[bottomsup]

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that you can't judge an entire series until it's over. Until then, all you can do is judge each individual episode. Attempting to look ahead and decide how you'll feel about a show in the future, without having watched the show, is simply wasting time and effort.

Watch your shows, decide if you enjoy them, and then keep watching or don't depending on your evaluation of that episode, not what your perception is of what future episodes will be.

I agree with that sentiment--about not looking too far forward. I hear this alot with Lost :"really enjoyed tonight's episode, but when are we going to get some answers." "Episode rocked, but really, where are they going with this?" Doesn't make sense. If you enjoyed the episode...keep watching. Be patient.

I also don't understand when people say entire series are/were ruined because of how they ended. For example--I hated the Will & Grace series finale--thought it undermined the whole friendship we watched for years. But--doesn't change the fact that for the most part, I really loved Will & G's run.


I am hearing alot of this doomsday talk about Lost--even though the end isn't exactly near, and with Gimore Girls, too, whose end is definitely seen on the horizon. And of course, the series already mentioned here, X Files. I've heard people say they can't even stand to watch the reruns knowing how it ends--that blows my mind.

Finally, I know time is valuable, but it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy about cancelled shows. If everyone starts waiting around to see if a show is going to last, well, who is watching it to make sure that it does?

[MacThor]

Uhhh....it's a free country? Why do you care?

There's a good reason that self-contained dramas (crime procedurals et al) and even bad sit-coms are so successful. People who watch Law & Order, for example, can just tune in even if they missed the prior four weeks and they know what they're going to get. There might be minor story arcs but they don't overwhelm the show.

Serials ask for a commitment from the viewer. Sometimes the viewer is rewarded for that commitment, though more often what starts out promising (or even very strong) devolves into silliness. Desperate Housewives anyone? I've heard that happened with Vanished, so I can see why people worry about Kidnapped. A lot of serials seem better suited as movies or mini-series.

HBO's rep for higher-quality serials is earned partly because their seasons are shorter.

[cheesesteak]

I don't think I like where Prison Break is going this year.

[DreadPirateRob]

It almost seems as if people are viewing their TV watching as an investment and they won't know if it was a good investment until they cash it in at the end. This is simply not the way to look at it. Each time you sit down to watch a show, you should be able to decide if that hour was enjoyable. If so, then great. If not, then you probably shouldn't watch that show next week. Either way, you're not getting the time back. You won't gain anything by having watched a good series instead of a bad one, and watching a bad one doesn't take any more time than a good one.


Well said.

[DreadPirateRob]

As far as firefly goes, each show stood on its own - it wasn't serialized. If it was on, I could watch it. If I missed one or two episodes, no big deal. A serialized show requires me to watch every week - so it has to be that much more entertaining to hold my interest.


I disagree. Any show in the Whedonverse, though not technically a serialized show, will contain both major and minor story arcs and plot and character development from episode to episode and season to season that you simply don't find in your average episodic TV series. Sure, there are the occasional MotW (Monster of the Week) or stand-alone episodes that are individual set pieces, but in general, each show builds upon the show before it, and each season (if you get that far) builds upon the season(s) before it.

I chose Firefly to illustrate my point for a reason. It's the perfect example of a show that ended up going "nowhere" because it was prematurely cancelled. As such, we'll likely never know what Book's mysterious background is, or what the hell the Blue Hands Group was up to, or whether Mal and Inara do the deed, or what happens to all of the other major and minor storylines that were developed in those first 14 epsiodes. Because believe me, Joss was setting up all of that and more, but he never got the chance to tell all the stories that he wanted because the show was cancelled before it ever found an audience.

So, knowing all of that - knowing that you are going to get to the last of those 14 episodes and shake your fists and yell "Noooooooooooooooo" like Vader in Ep III when you realize that is all the Firefly that you're ever going to see (along with the obligatory "Burn in Hell, Fox!!!") - does that mean you should not start watching the show? I say of course not, because if you did you would miss out on the just about the finest 630 minutes of television ever created, and all of the enjoyment that each of those minutes would give you.