At what point, should DirecTV stop replacing broken units

[ebonovic]

I have read a few threads over the last couple weeks....
Broken TiVos being replaced by R15's (or HR20's)...

-) this is not a defense of when they "say" they will send a TiVo but don't. as that is a different problem amongst itself.

What I am curious is: When should DirecTV stop replacing broken units?

If you have the protection plan.... then yes, they should be replaced... but what if you don't have the protection plan?

Your 4 year old SD TiVo brakes...... it only has a 90 day warranty...
Why should DirecTV replace that?

My 6 year old car brakes, but I don't go back to the dealer asking for a replacement....

And if you "do" have the protection plan.... how long should DirecTV keep "TiVos" around for replacements on those? OR should they go the route that BestBuy and Circuit City have gone... Sorry, we are not covering that any more... Here is your money back.

[ping]

Well, I guess it comes down to this. If they're going to lose a customer (who may no longer have equipment capable of receiving their service), and it's going to cost them over $600 to replace that customer, then they might as well throw a $99 (or whatever the cost is) DVR at them (for free) to keep them.

BTW, your car is supposed to brake, no matter how old it is. If it didn't you might hit the person in front of you and break your car. :D

[rock_doctor]

It is a slightly different situation. Replacements of units are incentive to keep you as a customer. I would compare this to the cell phone industry. Most companies will offer you a new phone when your contract it up. Replacing units when the original ones die keep you a customer, keep you under contract and can bring in even more money under the leasing agreements. Now with that said… they are sending out new units as replacements. So I would suspect that it is costing them more money to replace with new R15 then reman older model TiVo units but I assume after a while they will start to replace with reman R15's and all will be right with the world.

Every post I send I always suggest getting the replacement unit from DTV and repairing the old unit. Since the TiVo units are relatively easy to repair it just makes sense. In those cases that free R15 (or reman TiVo) netted them a new sub.

mark

[ebonovic]

I can see that angle (replacing for ever)....

But at what point then... should you expect the "Exact" same thing back....

I mean if my RCA receiver broke (that I purchased for $700 back in 1996), would I expect the same one back... or would they send me a D11 (Which is like $20 on ebay now)....

I don't know... I guess I am just on the side of the boat, that If it is old and it is broke... time to replace it with what ever is new out there... I don't call and say... hey it is broke, replace it for me...

Hence why I rarely get extended warranties for electronics.... I figure by the time it broke, something new is already out... :D

[ping]

I expect something greater than or equal to what's being replaced. Which rules out the R15.

[Gunnyman]

I expect something greater than or equal to what's being replaced. Which rules out the R15.
Applause applause!

[Scott D]

Slightly off topic. I guess this story would also apply to replacing a dead TiVo to another brand.


I think if DTV is still going to support the TiVo based community, they should honor the customer's request. If I was to call them and specifically ask for the HD TiVo and there was no complaint of any kind on the sales staff, then I should get one.

What really happens is this. I ask for a HD TiVo. They say Ok. You'll be getting it in "x" number of days. Fine, fine. That's great. When it arrives, it's not a TiVo. It's the other brand. You call to complain indicating that you received the incorrect product. Sales rep tells you that those units are no longer sold. Why couldn't they say that from the beginning? Easy. To force one of their brands into your home. They figure that you are not going to take the time nor energy to return that unit and you'll be stuck with it. They might even charge you to return it. Who knows. DTV is pushing the new units out even if the customer doesn't want one.

Why I say that? Numerous times when I called that's what they did with me! One thing I found out was if you were to talk generally about a DVR, they call them all TiVo based DVR's. So again if I was to ask specifically for a HD TiVo, to them, it simply means that I'm asking for a DVR and I don't really care what it really is. :cool:

[willardcpa]

.....My 6 year old car brakes, but I don't go back to the dealer asking for a replacement....

And if you "do" have the protection plan.... how long should DirecTV keep "TiVos" around for replacements on those? OR should they go the route that BestBuy and Circuit City have gone... Sorry, we are not covering that any more... Here is your money back.

Whatsa matta Earl, getting bored?

The difference on your car is that you are not paying (what is the average?) $60 a month to the dealer. To DTV what $ is it they value a customer at? IIRC once I think I heard about $700 or so. The car isn't a very good analogy, since the cost of replacing the car is big $ in comparison to what the dealer is getting from you. What you are looking at is that DTV gets the $ that it costs them to give you a new receiver back from you in a couple or three months. So the cell phone company model would be a better comparison, they'll give you a free $300 phone if you agree to stay with them for two more years at $50 a month, so it takes them six months to get the $ back from you - after that its "gravy". Same kind of deal with DTV, if they lost me as a customer they wouldn't save hardly anything on expenses (well, I'm sure they are forwarding some $ to HBO and Starz for me, but what can that be $5 per month) but they lose the $90 they get from me every month. So they throw me some bones every once in a while to make me think that I am getting "good service".

And as to the protection plan, they'll just give you an R-15 to replace your Dtivo, tell you that they flat do not have Dtivos any more, and that the R-15 is every bit as good if not better. But then a phase in program step might be, "Well sir, we do not have any Dtivos in stock, but we can send yours our for repair, it will take two months during which you will keep paying us $60 per month. Or do you want me to do you a favor and just send you an R-15?" ;)

I've gotten plenty from them in the past, $20 off premier for six months on three occasions, a free R-15 about 7-8 months ago (its in the closed), after rebates and instant discounts my first 10-250 cost me $39, and my second one $250, and I'm currently on a $10/mo discount and free Showtime for three months. So they have me lulled into a sense that I am getting a lot of freebies from them. So that I seem to lose track of the fact that I have sent them over $10M over the last nine years in subs and $ for hardware.
Sure they couldn't do this with all customers, but I'm sure they don't. My F-I-L has DTV, and he's not interested in any of the perks I tell him about, all he wants is basic and send em his $ every month and not bother about it.

So they just keep handing me the perks, I thought I scored big time on the 10-250 for a net of $39. :) Somehow it didn't register with me that at my level of desires for service (seven receivers and HBO and Starz) that the two year commitment amounted to a "lock in" of over $2M for them from me. So basically they were giving me a 20% discount. I'm sure that I am a "big margin" customer for them - I mean how much more out of there pocket each month does it cost them to service my extra six receivers that I pay them an $30 extra for?? ;)

[ebonovic]

Whatsa matta Earl, getting bored?


Kinda.. :D

I just like to stir up some trouble every once and a while....

I guess a car was a bad example...

How about a Cell Phone.... it brakes after a year... should T-Mobile replace it?
Even though I don't pay for the protection plan...

[willardcpa]

Slightly off topic. I guess this story would also apply to replacing a dead TiVo to another brand.


I think if DTV is still going to support the TiVo based community, they should honor the customer's request. If I was to call them and speciffically ask for the HD TiVo and there was no complaint of any kind on the sales staff, then I should get one.

What really happens is this. I ask for a HD TiVo. They say Ok. You'll be getting it in "x" number of days. Fine, fine. That's great. When it arrives, it's not a TiVo. It's the other brand. You call to complain indicating that you received the incorrect product. Sales rep tells you that those units are no longer sold. Why couldn't they say that from the beginning? Easy. To force one of their brands into your home. They figure that you are not going to take the time nor energy to return that unit and you'll be stuck with it. They might even charge you to return it. Who knows. DTV is pushing the new units out even if the customer doesn't want one.

Why I say that? Numerous times when I called that's what they did with me! One thing I found out was if you were to talk generally about a DVR, they call them all TiVo based DVR's. So again if I was to ask specifically for a HD TiVo, to them, it simply means that I'm asking for a DVR and I don't really care what it really is. :cool:They are doing that now - telling you up front that you can't get a HD Dtivo. I know I spent about 20 minutes the other night with them on the phone, talked to three different folks. Their current "script" is that they no longer have the 10-250 but are more than happy to sent you the HDDVR20. When I "stuck to my guns" their suggestion was to go to Best Buy, or Circuit City.

[Scott D]

Let's face it. Customer satisfaction is going downhill. It's all about the all mighty dollar.

Really. there MUST be a very fine balance between the two. Well, not anymore. :(

[BillyT2002]

The protection plan is the biggest waste of money going. If you invest a little time calling the retention line and playing CSR roulette, you will always get precisely what you want.

You may have to jump through a few hoops in the process, such as if DirecTV won't send you a TIVO branded unit to replace the TIVO branded unit which went bad, you may have to pick one up somewhere else and have DirecTV give you programming credits towards your purchase or some such, until the value is equal, but that's still good enough for me.

You also have to accept that at some point, the DirecTV/TIVO units will truly be unobtainable (unless DirecTV and TIVO get back in bed together which could occur with a man more virile than Rupert Murdoch at the head of DirecTV. Rupert Murdoch is a walking corpse.) In that case, you might need to get used to a DirecTV DVR or change providers.

If you do not get what you want, then absolutely be prepared to move on to the provider who will give you what you want.

As consumers, we hold all of the power whether businesses want to think so or not.

[willardcpa]

....How about a Cell Phone.... it brakes after a year... should T-Mobile replace it?
Even though I don't pay for the protection plan... They almost always have you "locked in" for some period of time. They all have the gimmick, new phone every two years, of course with a new two year committment. Well lets say your phone breaks in month 15 of your two year deal. Well, I would imagine that legally you could probably get our of your remainind 9 months since you have no way of using the service. So what is T-Mobliles alternative, say sayonara to you and $450 (nine months at $50 per), or send you some phone that probably costs them less than $100 and keep getting your $50 per?
Like I said earllier they surely can't do this with everybody, but statistically they probably have it figured out that it is not enough such that they lose money on the policy.

Kind of lilke the Midas Muffler deal where if you buy a new muffler from them they will replace it for you for free (the labor and ancillary hardware you pay for). Well on the surface it sounds like a sure fire winner for the customer, but since Midas has been doing this for 30+ years I'm sure that economically it works out for them.

Besides that the $20 D11 that they would give you now is probably superior in features than the ten year old RCA box that you have. IIRC wasn't it less than ten years ago that they came out with the "advanced receivers" that had the ability to receive a signal from more than one satellite. :eek: Your old RCA box probably only gets 101 doesn't it??

[ebonovic]

Your old RCA box probably only gets 101 doesn't it??

Couldn't tell ya.... I broke it a long time ago... and replaced it with a newer version... :D

[willardcpa]

....In that case, you might need to get used to a DirecTV DVR or change providers.

If you do not get what you want, then absolutely be prepared to move on to the provider who will give you what you want.

As consumers, we hold all of the power whether businesses want to think so or not.Agreed, consumers collectively. But the thing that we need to remind ourselves of (all the time). Is that we are a bunch of zealots. The rank and file customer really does not appreciate Tivos the way we do. They think that the R-15s and HDVR20s are just as good, if not more so (after all they are "new technology") than tivos. So basically they don't care about the brand - all they think is, "Hey, it records and plays back later,what else do I need".

Its kind of like Kleenexes, you ask somebody for a Kleenex, they give you a "Scott" tissue, do you even notice. Or better yet Coca Cola, I remember 40 years ago they used to have "secret shoppers" going to restaurants and ordering a "Coke", if the restaurant served them a Pepsi without any explanation the restaurant got a "cease and desist" letter from Coca Colas legal dept. Zoom forward to today, how much do you think that it shapes the customer demographics of McDonalds because they only have Coke and not Pepsi. Sure there are some "zealots" (remember that's us) that will not eat there as a result, but most of the folks just keep coming back. I'll always buy Pepsi at a market, but at a restaurant I'll just drink whatever cola they have. I am there for the food not the soft drink. Same thing with DTV, to them the DVR is like the soft drink offering, sure it's selection may affect some customers decision to "eat at their restaurant" but not enough to worry about.
"Sunday ticket" is probably an item that has 100 times more market effect than Tivo vs R-15. :cool:

And the soft drink is like the DVR replacement in other senses - what if they went ahead and gave you soft drinks for free - that's basically what most every fast food franchise has done. I always think that I score big time when Mickey D's asks me if I want to "super size" for an extra 50 cents or so, and I go "no", I'll just refill my regular for free. In my mind I scored 50 cents worth of free pop, from their perspective they just provided me with two cents of Coke syruip and som carbonated water. But I'll gladly be back next week an plop down another $5-6 for my lunch - along with its "free" refill. Marketing 101. ;)

[Rkkeller]

I would imagine that legally you could probably get our of your remainind 9 months since you have no way of using the service.


You would still have to pay the monthly fee phone or no phone as in the contract.

You would also need to purchase another phone at FULL PRICE, around $400, not the discounted new user price of $50.

How do I know ? This happened to me. The phone you get for almost nothing costs $300++ when you need to buy it as an under contract user.

[Scott D]

They are doing that now - telling you up front that you can't get a HD Dtivo. I know I spent about 20 minutes the other night with them on the phone, talked to three different folks. Their current "script" is that they no longer have the 10-250 but are more than happy to sent you the HDDVR20. When I "stuck to my guns" their suggestion was to go to Best Buy, or Circuit City.

Yeah, now it's happening more. That's because the new hr20's are out. To DTV, the HR20-700's are their premier units and the HR10-250's are next.

[ebonovic]

However... they simply are running out of them.... the HR10 hasn't been produced in well over a year... and the R10 about just as long.... Then with the recent DVR promotion.... It is VERY possible, that inside of DirecTV logistics there simply aren't any, or are at least at such a low level that they can't guarantee the delivery of one.

[DTVPro]

actually Earl, the brunt of your arguement is directed at the wrong secter

the secter that truely has it wrong are those that expect it to be replaced, then complain, cry, and threaten to disconnect over leasing or committment requirements


I see nothing wrong with getting something cheap if I reup my committment


I think it's just petty to go begging for something new to replace it, expect a committment out of DTV to the customer in the form of money, and not give them a committment back int he form of time to subscribe to their service

[itsmeitsmeitsme]

I expect something greater than or equal to what's being replaced. Which rules out the R15.
I wondered how long it would take to start bashing the r-15. Wow, it was only 4 posts. :rolleyes:

[ping]

It wasn't just random bashing. Maybe I should have quoted the passage I was responding to. I'll do that now.

But at what point then... should you expect the "Exact" same thing back....

I mean if my RCA receiver broke (that I purchased for $700 back in 1996), would I expect the same one back... or would they send me a D11 (Which is like $20 on ebay now)....

So the only reason people want their broken TiVos replaced with TiVos is because the R15 just doesn't cut it as a DVR (at least mine doesn't). That's not bashing. That's not subjective. That's a fact.

[ebonovic]

So the only reason people want their broken TiVos replaced with TiVos is because the R15 just doesn't cut it as a DVR (at least mine doesn't). That's not bashing. That's not subjective. That's a fact.

No that is subjective... as YOUR requirements for what a DVR needs to do to meat your needs, is not necessarily the same as the next person.

Facts are that they both have a hard drive.
Subjective is that one has an easier to menu to use then the other...

Fact is both have dual tuners
Fact is one, has a single 90 minute buffer, the other dual 30 minute buffers.
Subjective is that one is a POS because it doesn't have dual buffers..

[whalerfan]

You would still have to pay the monthly fee phone or no phone as in the contract.

You would also need to purchase another phone at FULL PRICE, around $400, not the discounted new user price of $50.

How do I know ? This happened to me. The phone you get for almost nothing costs $300++ when you need to buy it as an under contract user.


I agree totally. I had a similar situation whereas my phone broke and I needed to replace it. I told the mall rat that I only wanted to buy a phone and not extend the contract. Well you know what happened. I was extended 2 years after buying that phone. Exactly 1 day after my contract ended it was goodbye Cingluar, hello Verizon. This has worked out wonderfully because I can now use my phone in the house.

As for the equipment thing. Doesn't matter to new customers, with leasing they'll get a replacement if the unit breaks. But if you are under the protection plan and keep paying the $$$, I say replace the unit even if it's old and gray!

[dswallow]

No that is subjective... as YOUR requirements for what a DVR needs to do to meat your needs, is not necessarily the same as the next person.

Facts are that they both have a hard drive.
Subjective is that one has an easier to menu to use then the other...

Fact is both have dual tuners
Fact is one, has a single 90 minute buffer, the other dual 30 minute buffers.
Subjective is that one is a POS because it doesn't have dual buffers..
Fact:

If a DVR/receiver can do A, B, C and D then it's reasonable to expect a replacement DVR/receiver will also do A, B, C and D, regardless if it might also do E, F and G.


Another fact:

To date, DirecTV has not yet lived up to their statement that their own brand DVR will do everything the TiVo-based unit does and more. And that's just based on the spec sheet, not even on the real world performance/behavior... which is worse.


If someone replaced your dual tuner DVR with a single tuner DVR, wouldn't you be upset? Both are DVR's, right? Just because your requirements for a DVR include it having dual tuners doesn't mean anyone else does. You can always just buy a second single tuner DVR, right? I mean, it's not important to have the convenience of scheduling with use of two tuners rather than manually monitoring two separate tuners and ensuring all your desired programs record without conflict, right?

[ping]

No that is subjective... as YOUR requirements for what a DVR needs to do to meat your needs, is not necessarily the same as the next person.


No, I said it didn't cut it as a DVR, not as a TiVo replacement (which is also true for me but would have been an opinion).

In less than two months I was forced to reformat, losing almost 100 hours of recordings, because it was hanging multiple times per day. This isn't happening to everyone, of course, but it's not exactly uncommon, either.

[malloryd]

Another way to look at it is if I currently have a DirecTivo and it breaks, I would expect a similar DirecTivo model. If I were told I had to settle for a non-Tivo unit, whether or not DirecTV feels it is just a good, then I might as well investigate my options of providers. It is my decision on what is "just as good" as I am footing the bill.

Right now, here in Sterling, the options would be either Adelphia - leased equipment and no commitment, or FIOS-TV, leased equipment and 1 year commitment. Either one would get me HDTV, which I can't get from DirecTV right now due to satellite visibility problems, and FIOS-TV would actually be cheaper for me in the long run.

The thing is none of the other providers have a Tivo-based unit; for better or worse, this is what keeps me with DirecTV.

Just my two cents!

DCM