Tivo CSR claims we will be charged 15% if we refuse shipment!

[SteveJ]

I just got off my latest call to Tivo's customer support -- trying to cancel my order that clearly has not shipped. I spoke to a "supervisor."

He told me he has no idea where my order is, if it's been shipped or not, or when I will get it. He said that Tivo corporate told him all units ordered by Friday the 15th were shipped on Friday the 15th. He said corporate hasn't told him what method the products were shipped -- he said he thinks they probably shipped them ground.

Then he told me that I have two options to "cancel" my order: either refuse shipment or take the shipment and return it. He said if I refused it I'd be charged 15% restocking fee.

I was INCREDULOUS on this -- because Tivo's systems are all screwed up and I was illegally denied my right to cancel the order I am forced to either pay a 15% restocking fee or I have to accept the product???

This is the WORST, and I mean the WORST, experience I've ever had with an online vendor. And it is completely unacceptable from a company like Tivo.

[geekmedic]

A lawsuit is in the works against TiVo. I'm sure the FTC will be fining them also for refusing to cancel orders.

[SteveJ]

Um... yeah, I'm pretty pissed about this. And I think the many people who have been told to refuse the shipment should know this info...

But let's not bring violence into this!!

[fergiej]

I just got off my latest call to Tivo's customer support -- trying to cancel my order that clearly has not shipped. I spoke to a "supervisor."

He told me he has no idea where my order is, if it's been shipped or not, or when I will get it. He said that Tivo corporate told him all units ordered by Friday the 15th were shipped on Friday the 15th. He said corporate hasn't told him what method the products were shipped -- he said he thinks they probably shipped them ground.

Then he told me that I have two options to "cancel" my order: either refuse shipment or take the shipment and return it. He said if I refused it I'd be charged 15% restocking fee.

I was INCREDULOUS on this -- because Tivo's systems are all screwed up and I was illegally denied my right to cancel the order I am forced to either pay a 15% restocking fee or I have to accept the product???

This is the WORST, and I mean the WORST, experience I've ever had with an online vendor. And it is completely unacceptable from a company like Tivo.
COmpletely opposite of what everyone was saying over the weekend. I'm not sure I'd believe it until it happened.

[MickeS]

The CSR didn't have any information about the shipping and then my TiVo arrived 4 days late! I'm gonna sue those bastards!

:D :D :D :D :D

[geekmedic]

The CSR didn't have any information about the shipping and then my TiVo arrived 4 days late! I'm gonna sue those bastards!

:D :D :D :D :D
Try the CSR lied stating it was shipped and TiVo is refusing to cancel orders and is threatening a 15% restocking fees on returned units. Yes, we're going to sue those bastards!

[geekmedic]

Complaints can be filed with the Federal Trade Commission by following this link: https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

[russkle]

...the CSR lied...

Having been a CSR before, they are in a difficult place when these situations happen.

- They usually are forced to disseminate information that has been translated through 3-4 layers of people. So the message is totally malformed when the caller gets it.
- CSR's are usually judged by their call times, even over their "satisfaction" scores.

In my experience I have seen CSR's that are percieved to be good usually are just the best at making the caller believe what they are saying. Also, when forced to make stuff up on the fly, the best CSR's are the ones that guess right more often than not.

Granted, I have been mostly involved with tech support. My claim to fame was always that I guessed right more often than not. As long as I didn't make the caller doubt my abilities, I was good for that 'satisfaction' score.

I'm not trying to justify their behavior... it just isn't something that is really that unusual in a call center environment. Don't blame the CSR... blame the corporation for putting the CSR's in that position. In a perfect world the underpaid CSR would push management to get us an accurate answer no matter how long it took them... that just isn't going to happen.

[eisenb11]

The Tivo guy told me to refuse the shipment. So I'd assume there better not be a restocking fee... even if there is, it's not anything a quick phone call won't fix.

[bap]

Try the CSR lied stating it was shipped and TiVo is refusing to cancel orders and is threatening a 15% restocking fees on returned units. Yes, we're going to sue those bastards!

Have fun proving the CSR lied or somehow provided you with information he/she and the company knew to be false. Proving that in a court of law will be a fairly difficult challenge.

[MediaLivingRoom]

There is a battle going on here.

[geekmedic]

Have fun proving the CSR lied or somehow provided you with information he/she and the company knew to be false. Proving that in a court of law will be a fairly difficult challenge.
Unless, of course, you have a recorded conversation. Some states only require one party of a conversation to know of the recording to make it legal.

[Redux]

Unless, of course, you have a recorded conversation. Some states only require one party of a conversation to know of the recording to make it legal.More broadly, once both parties know that the conversation is being recorded by one of the parties, the other party is free to also record, without notification.

[eisenb11]

Unless, of course, you have a recorded conversation. Some states only require one party of a conversation to know of the recording to make it legal.

Or unless there's a ton of complaints from people all over about the same thing.

When 1 person says it, maybe they're lying... when 10 people say it maybe they're not lying... when 1,000 people say it... they're definately not lying.

Although I'm sure Tivo wouldn't let such a small matter go so far. I don't think they aim to get customers mad at them and will most likely refund the charges with a minimal amount of fighting.

[osterber]

This is the WORST, and I mean the WORST, experience I've ever had with an online vendor. And it is completely unacceptable from a company like Tivo.

Can you please tell me everywhere else you've shopped? Clearly you've had some excellent experiences with online vendors. If this is the absolute worst experience you've ever had... I'm so jealous.

Please remember for a moment -- the people on the other end of the phone _are_ human beings. I really think it ought to be required of everyone to spend one day working in a customer support role. Anywhere. Because then you'd have to deal with people like yourselves.

-Rick

[osterber]

Also -- I presume that all of you who bought online at tivo.com paid by credit card? Hello? If you don't get the product that you paid for, or within the parameters promised, you can file a charge protest with your credit card company.

-Rick

[Bodshal]

Can you please tell me everywhere else you've shopped? Clearly you've had some excellent experiences with online vendors. If this is the absolute worst experience you've ever had... I'm so jealous.

Please remember for a moment -- the people on the other end of the phone _are_ human beings. I really think it ought to be required of everyone to spend one day working in a customer support role. Anywhere. Because then you'd have to deal with people like yourselves.

-Rick

I used to do tech support for a dialup ISP in the 90's. Never again. And I've always appreciated that representatives of a company are just that: while it's not their fault, they represent the company that you have a problem with. Therefore they do deserve to hear your frustration, but you don't need to be rude.

That said, this does rate as the worst online experience I've had (removing ebay from the equation). Not being able to cancel a not-yet-shipped order (for any reason) is simply bogus. And apparently illegal if you miss your initial delivery promise.

(FWIW, I will be sending it back, should it ever arrive, since I did get impatient and buy one off the shelf. But I will be paying the all-of $9 it will cost to do so, since it's my choice to return it, and that doesn't bother me. It's my choice. It would have been simpler to not send a unit that's not sent yet, of course. Or is that just too obvious?)

Chris.

[maki]

Why would you cancel the shipment? Have some patience. :(

[Bodshal]

Coz I was impatient/bored/needed to get out of the house, and ended up getting one from BB.

I was waiting, patiently, until that point. :)

Chris.

[maki]

Coz I was impatient/bored/needed to get out of the house, and ended up getting one from BB.

I was waiting, patiently, until that point. :)

Chris.

Why didn't you (and the others) just go ahead to BB or CC to begin with? :up:

[bicker]

FWIW, a 15% restocking fee is pretty common these days. If it was revealed in any way, shape or form during the sales order taking, even if it was hidden in "terms and conditions" that you had to click a link for when placing your order online, then the fee is legit, and if you have it waived, you can consider it a matter of generosity on TiVo's part.

[Bodshal]

Why didn't you (and the others) just go ahead to BB or CC to begin with? :up:

Coz they said /vip was the only way to order it to qualify for the lifetime service transfer.

Anyway, I'm not excited about this. Like I said, I made the choice to buy one off the shelf knowing it'll cost me return shipping to do so. But that's less than $10. Big deal.

Chris.

[Cue-Ball]

Coz they said /vip was the only way to order it to qualify for the lifetime service transfer.So, you bought off the shelf and forfeited your VIP lifetime transfer to get it two days earlier?

[mchief]

Just to continue the stupidity.

I managed CS folks for years. I was the Fed managing contractor CS.

You get what you pay for.

Most of the help I had wanted to do a good job. This was dealing with MS Operating Systems problems.

We had a second tier for those that really needed help.

While I understand the lack of information available to the CSr, I suspect that may be planned. When you really f*uk it up, you run and hide.

Been there, done that.

If you spend $800 you should expect excellent CS. You can also expect the Tivo folks to care less. They will wake up at some point and make things right?

Sold and who cares.

[maki]

So, you bought off the shelf and forfeited your VIP lifetime transfer to get it two days earlier?

Hasn't it been confirmed that they will transfer lifetime on retail units?

[MickeS]

Unless, of course, you have a recorded conversation. Some states only require one party of a conversation to know of the recording to make it legal.

1.Do you have that?

2. Even if you do, how does a recording prove that the other party knew what he said was untrue?

Good luck.

[Bodshal]

So, you bought off the shelf and forfeited your VIP lifetime transfer to get it two days earlier?

Nope. Coz they did the lifetime transfer on a retail unit anyway, as per the experience of many others.

And it's not really a question of timing either. I needed to get out of the house (more correctly, get the 11 month old out so mother could get some work done) and I saw one on the shelf. So I bought it. Based on the knowledge I could *pay* to send the late one back, and that others had their non-VIP boxes lifetime'd. It really isn't a big deal.

(Part of me is tempted to keep it, but I just don't need two of them (especially without MRV) on top of the two series2's I have and am keeping)

Chris.

[MickeS]

Nope. Coz they did the lifetime transfer on a retail unit anyway, as per the experience of many others.

And it's not really a question of timing either. I needed to get out of the house (more correctly, get the 11 month old out so mother could get some work done) and I saw one on the shelf. So I bought it. Based on the knowledge I could *pay* to send the late one back, and that others had their non-VIP boxes lifetime'd. It really isn't a big deal.

(Part of me is tempted to keep it, but I just don't need two of them (especially without MRV) on top of the two series2's I have and am keeping)

Chris.

So tell me again why you should not be charged the standard restocking fee?

[osterber]

That said, this does rate as the worst online experience I've had (removing ebay from the equation).

So as I understand it, this represents your worst online experience, except for the other experiences that were worse than this?

-Rick

[pablop]

I also find it a bit annoying that I was unable to cancel my order when it had not yet shipped. Every online vendor gives you a means of canceling an order - this is just odd.

[Bodshal]

So tell me again why you should not be charged the standard restocking fee?Erm. 'cause they don't charge one when you return within 30 days?
6. If you return the box within 30 days of placing the order on the website, you will receive a full refund on any paid transfer fee and hardware cost. The shipping charge for the return is at your expense. Full refund.

So as I understand it, this represents your worst online experience, except for the other experiences that were worse than this?Not quite. I said except for ebay. Which, actually, I've never had a bad experience from. I merely excluded it from my statement since I felt that the sort of trade that ebay deals with is somewhat different from the online commerce to which I was referring.

Chris.

[ah30k]

I think the restocking fee may only be for 'refused' deliveries. My CSR told me last week to please not refuse shipment but to follow the RMS process. I didn't explicitly ask, but hoped they would give me a return sticker that included postage.

[Cue-Ball]

Hasn't it been confirmed that they will transfer lifetime on retail units?After futher reading it appears that many people have successfully transferred lifetime subs to retail purchased S3 units. However; Tivo's site still states that only units purchased through them will get the lifetime transfer. And, even more confusing, another thread on this forum by a Tivo rep states that it's being done on a case by case basis.

Bottom line: You can probably transfer your lifetime to a retail S3, but Tivo is not being very good about making this clear and would be within their rights to refuse.

[Test]

After futher reading it appears that many people have successfully transferred lifetime subs to retail purchased S3 units. However; Tivo's site still states that only units purchased through them will get the lifetime transfer. And, even more confusing, another thread on this forum by a Tivo rep states that it's being done on a case by case basis.

Bottom line: You can probably transfer your lifetime to a retail S3, but Tivo is not being very good about making this clear and would be within their rights to refuse.

I'm sure with all the problems of shipping that I just read about tivo will pretty much move lifetime to an S3 no matter where it came from...

[Rob Helmerichs]

I think the restocking fee may only be for 'refused' deliveries. My CSR told me last week to please not refuse shipment but to follow the RMS process. I didn't explicitly ask, but hoped they would give me a return sticker that included postage.
On the other hand, other CSRs were saying to refuse shipment, and you would automatically get a full refund.

This is typical of the whole issue. TiVo has changed a minor shipping snafu (and really, it is pretty minor) into a major PR disaster by their complete inability and/or refusal to keep us and their CSRs informed as to just what is going on.

That said, I suspect that, given TiVo's history, they will probably be pretty generous with their angry customers. At least, being one of them, I hope they will!

[cornell]

On the other hand, other CSRs were saying to refuse shipment, and you would automatically get a full refund.

This is typical of the whole issue. TiVo has changed a minor shipping snafu (and really, it is pretty minor) into a major PR disaster by their complete inability and/or refusal to keep us and their CSRs informed as to just what is going on.

That said, I suspect that, given TiVo's history, they will probably be pretty generous with their angry customers. At least, being one of them, I hope they will!

I know the CSRs have been stating many different things as they have told me 10 different stories (lies) now. But this is what the terms stated when purchasing at Tivo.com.


"TiVo Packages (combined sales of Box and Service)
TiVo offers a 30-day money-back guarantee for TiVo Packages as described herein. Only initial activations of TiVo Packages are eligible for this offer. Service renewals, TiVo Package payment plan changes, and hardware replacements and upgrades are not eligible for this offer. You may cancel your TiVo Package within 30 days of activation (which is typically your order shipment date) and return the DVR to TiVo for any reason for a full refund. If you cancel your TiVo Package within the first 30 days under this offer, you are exempt from your TiVo Package commitment. No early termination fee will be applied in that event. However, if you fail to return your DVR received as part of your TiVo Package within 15 days of your cancellation date, you will be charged the full retail value of the DVR, including applicable taxes. For details about how to return your DVR, please call 1-877-367-8486.

Returned DVRs must include all original components, literature, warranties and packaging in the same saleable condition in which it was received. Refunds for returns will cover product amount and any sales taxes charged. Refunds will not be made for any shipping and handling charges. Returns not meeting these requirements may be subject to a restocking fee equaling 15% of the retail value of the DVR (not including taxes). Damaged merchandise, cosmetically or otherwise, is subject to an increased restocking fee on a case-by-case basis. If an order has shipped, it is the purchaser's responsibility to accept the shipment and return the order per our Return Policy. Orders that are refused at the designated shipping address may incur a 15% restocking fee.

[nhaigh]

I was told to refuse it by the CSR - however as I'm away for the next three weeks I don't quite know how I do that. TiVo wouldn't let me cancel last thursday so there is a good chance it will sit on my door step until someone steals it. I was at home when they were meant to get it to me next day but they failed to do that.

[MickeS]

Orders that are refused at the designated shipping address may incur a 15% restocking fee. [/B]

At least it says "may".

[eisenb11]

If an order has shipped, it is the purchaser's responsibility to accept the shipment and return the order per our Return Policy. Orders that are refused at the designated shipping address may incur a 15% restocking fee.

"May" != "Will"

Also, for many of us, myself included, the Tivo CSR said specifically to reject the package.

Tivo did send me a pre-paid shipping label though, so I may as well just fill it out and leave it at the door with a note to the driver to use the new label to ship it back...?

[montivette]

I tried like many to cancel and the would not let me. The CSR I talked to said to refuse delivery. I just received a tracking number which says it shipped out today Monday, 4 business days after it was ordered. Since my order had not shipped yet, most businesses would have allowed me to cancel the order.

It is not our fault their system is inadequate and unable to allow them to cancel orders prior to shipment. Therefore we should not have to pay for restocking fee, especially when they are the ones telling us to refuse delivery. And I would not have to cancel the order had they kept us informed of their intent and posted a realistic ship time on their website.

If they charge a restocking fee this is something which should be easy to dispute with the credit card company as I would think they credit card company would be rather sympathetic once they were told how you cancelled the order prior to shipping but were told you couldn't do so and were specifically instructed to refuse delivery with no mention of a restocking fee being charged by the CSR when you talked to them. I actually asked my CSR about the restocking fee and he was not aware of their being a restocking fee. I said it was stated on their site. He said he was not aware of anything of that nature.

Since some CSR's said to refuse and others said not to refuse, it leaves us all not knowing what the correct thing to do is. Once again this is not our fault really, it is there fault for being unclear and for delaying the shipments in the first place.

I really think TiVo should come out with some sort of statement or real explanation of what is occuring along with an apology, and an explanation of what manner these returns should be handled. I am skeptical they will do this in a timely manner.

[Sixto]

Very simple process.

I ordered Tuesday morning from tivo.com.

Box arrived today via UPS. Called TiVo, they easily agreed to refund all charges, took my credit card number for refund, while on phone I received via e-mail the return shipping label. Put the shipping label on the box and brought it to UPS.

UPS.com now shows the box as on it's way back to TiVo.

Very simple process.

[lawilson2]

I talked to a rep a minute ago. Nice guy (forgot his name). He said that the people online here are simply trying to scare me. He said that when the refused shipment is returned, I will be refunded 100% including the separate tax charge. He even looked up the order and saw that UPS was sending it back tonight, so he said for me to check in about 3 days to see if it arrived, and then it should be up to 5 business days after that for a refund.

He obviously knew about the misinformation here, but to our credit, that isn't entirely our fault. The CSR's are giving wrong info. I believe this guy; this is the 3rd person to confirm this with me.

[musicforme]

Add me to the list that was instructed by a CSR to refuse the shipment. He went as far as to encourage my idea of leaving a note on my door for UPS since I might not be home to refuse it.

[sommerfeld]

I talked to a rep a minute ago. Nice guy (forgot his name). He said that the people online here are simply trying to scare me.
Nonsense. People are rightfully concerned that, in the event of a misunderstanding or miscommunication, the terms given in writing (15% restocking fee) will trump terms given verbally over the phone.

And since misunderstanding and miscommunication seem to be present in excess at the moment, it's not helpful for Tivo CSR's to slander their customers like that.

[lawilson2]

Well TivoPony just confirmed (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317369) that we wouldn't be charged, so that settles this thread. :)