Comcast licensed tivo?

[Woodstock2]

I hear that Comcast will be coming out soon(6months?) with a cable box/dvr which uses/licenses the tivo software for UI, etc.

Anyone have any further information? Will this basically be an integrated Series3?

[bkdtv]

Woodstock,

That's correct -- if you live in a Comcast market that uses Motorola hardware, the Tivo software will be available for an extra monthly fee around February-April of next year. If you live in a Comcast market that uses Scientific Atlanta hardware, you are out of luck. There is no Tivo software update coming for those boxes in 2007.

With the Tivo software upgrade, the Motorola DVR from Comcast will be a Series3 "liite" -- it'll have a much smaller hard drive for less storage capacity, it won't support MPEG-4/VC-1 for Internet video content, and it won't support off-air reception for integration of local DTV/HDTV channels from an antenna.

[Woodstock2]

Hmm. We do have the motorola boxes, but hate the crappy software (I think it's Microsoft right now, but that could be an evil rumor). Do I take it that the box hardware is the same, it's just tivo software?

I'm not sure I really need those extra non-lite features, although I like the extra storage. (I have no idea, to be honest, what my motorola box is, but it's less than 25hrs of HD, I know that! Right now, I have the two tuner HD motorola comcast box, plus a toshiba tivo2+dvdplayer unit. We love the tivo interface much better <duh>.

Oh well, decisions, decisions....

[megazone]

Hmm. We do have the motorola boxes, but hate the crappy software (I think it's Microsoft right now, but that could be an evil rumor). Do I take it that the box hardware is the same, it's just tivo software?Yes, it is an in-place upgrade. At least for some of the Motorola DVRs - the 6412 is one I know, I'm not sure which other models are included. But customers who want the TiVo software will just add it to their account and their DVR will be upgraded in place.

[d_anders]

Yes, it is an in-place upgrade. At least for some of the Motorola DVRs - the 6412 is one I know, I'm not sure which other models are included. But customers who want the TiVo software will just add it to their account and their DVR will be upgraded in place.

One further note, it's not clear whether all the Moto boxes will get automatic free upgrades or whether Comcast will charge an onetime or monthly add-on fee for boxes to receive the TiVo software.

As for the earlier comments, "it won't support MPEG-4/VC-1 for Internet video content, and it won't support off-air reception for integration of local DTV/HDTV channels from an antenna."

The off-the-air reception arguments are pointless. Almost in every market, Comcast carries all the local hd channels available.

The internet video points are valid. TiVo is expected to provide "additional" content via "TiVoCast" that may include additional videos, movies, and possible links to services like YouTube, etc. If TiVo has a clue on this phenomon and popularity, this could prove to be very cool. Given how TiVo is about 24 months behind any recent innovation curve, it's suspect. I hope they prove me wrong.

That said, the upgraded TiVo/Comcast/Moto boxes are also expected to still feature and at least provide access all video-on-demand content that includes standard on demand for premium services like HBO and Starz as well as movie rentals...(perhaps not be able to record/store, etc., but until the software release,we won't know for sure.

If TiVo can pull off at least bring SD TiVoToGo, and Multi-Room Sharing, on the S3s (given their constraints with CableLabs), then the S3's will probably have that particular leg up on ComcasTivo's....

Given the price tag of the S3, any Comcast subscriber with access to moto DVR boxes would be crazy not to at least try it.

That said, anyone with a lifetime sub on their S1 or S2 may still at least breakeven on buying an S3 by Dec 31, transfer their lifetime sub by 1/31/2007 and then (worst case) sell it later...if the Comcast boxes meet their needs. I say break even, because no one in their right mind expects TiVo too keep the boxes at $799 past February/March 2007 (via price reductions/rebates/promotions).

Don't let the S3 salivating TiVo addicts confuse you...current and to-be-released integrated sat or cable TiVo HD boxes will always offer a lower HD cost experience, along with some video on demand...

It's the yet-to-be-released/to-be-determined value-add TiVoToGo, MRV, and straight Internet content services that TiVo has got going for S3...but there is still doubt on the TiVo-To-Go and MRV services...

Don't get me wrong...I've had TiVo since Series 1 (also have Series 2 units, and Series 2 Dual Tuner), for 6 years. I love TiVo, but like family members, I can point out their strengths and faults out very easily...

[jwehman]

This is a question mainly for BKDTV, since he obviously has an inside scoop on the whole Comcast/Tivo arena: I just had to switch out my DCT6412 for a DCT3412 (same looking box, only no smartcard and only supports digital (ADS) signals. While I'm aware that the Moto/Tivo conversion will occur on 6412 boxes, I'm (fervently) hoping that the 3412's will also be able to recieve the update. Can you confirm whether this is true?

[rainwater]

One further note, it's not clear whether all the Moto boxes will get automatic free upgrades or whether Comcast will charge an onetime or monthly add-on fee for boxes to receive the TiVo software.


I think its pretty well known that to get the TiVo software, you will pay an extra monthly fee. The TiVo software is considered a premium upgrade to the DVR software Comcast already offers.

[bkdtv]

While I'm aware that the Moto/Tivo conversion will occur on 6412 boxes, I'm (fervently) hoping that the 3412's will also be able to recieve the update. Can you confirm whether this is true?
Yes, the latest revisions of the 641x and 341x all support the Tivo software.

[jmoak]

I may not have an inside scoop (;)), but comcast sez: (http://www.cmcsk.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=147565&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=685606&highlight=)This long-term, non-exclusive partnership will provide millions of Comcast customers with the opportunity to choose the TiVo service, including TiVo's award-winning user interface and features like Season Pass(TM) and WishList(TM), as an additional option. In addition, the service will showcase TiVo's home networking, multimedia, and broadband capabilities.There's no way to know for sure what the comcast/tivo will have as far as features, but that looks like a pretty good sign.

[rainwater]

I may not have an inside scoop (;)), but comcast sez: (http://www.cmcsk.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=147565&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=685606&highlight=)There's no way to know for sure what the comcast/tivo will have as far as features, but that looks like a pretty good sign.

How could it possibly have home networking?

[Dennis Wilkinson]

How could it possibly have home networking?

Moto 6412's have USB and Ethernet ports (Ethernet may be optional or only on "Phase III" models, don't recall.)

[jmoak]

How could it possibly have home networking?Well, the 64xx and the 34xx's do have an ethernet port and the motorola platform is advertised to have "in-the-home" connectivity via coax and the quote I posted is straight from the comcast press release, so it IS possible.

But is it probable? I have no idea, but comcast did mention it, at least so it's not completely out of the question.

We won't know for sure till someone actually gets one, though.

[jlb]

I am a Comcast subscriber, but I have just basic cable without box. Does anyone in the North of Boston zone know off-hand which boxes are used?

I will consider this, but since I only pay $11/month, it would be a very expensive upgrade for me, considering my current service level..........I would like to just keep the channels I have now, plus obtain the HD programming. Don't need the other 157 channels.......

[cbill35]

I'm in Peabody - we use the motorola boxes - so Tivo upgrade should be possible here - can't wait to try it out

[DianaMo]

Can one hook up an external hard drive to those Comcast/motorola boxes to add to the storage space?

[bicker]

Comcast won't enable that capability.

[MediaLivingRoom]

This long-term, non-exclusive partnership will provide millions of Comcast customers with the opportunity to choose the TiVo service, including TiVo's award-winning user interface and features like Season Pass(TM) and WishList(TM), as an additional option. In addition, the service will showcase TiVo's home networking, multimedia, and broadband capabilities.


"as an additional option" in comcast speak, it means for $5-10 more per month, per box.

[zalusky]

Well, the 64xx and the 34xx's do have an ethernet port and the motorola platform is advertised to have "in-the-home" connectivity via coax and the quote I posted is straight from the comcast press release, so it IS possible.

But is it probable? I have no idea, but comcast did mention it, at least so it's not completely out of the question.

We won't know for sure till someone actually gets one, though.

I would expect it will be a competitive thing. If DTV or Dish comes out with boxes that merge sat video with broadband video of some sort then they will feel the pressure.

ATT U-Verse will be IPTV and will create broadband video pressure in the set-top box.

S

[GadgetGav]

I completely agree with d_anders. I've had Tivo since S1 and I've had a HDTV for nearly two years. I've been waiting so long for the HD Tivo to become available, but I was so disappointed at the price. $1000 for the unit and 'transfer' of my lifetime sub. So, yesterday, Comcast delivered their MotoDCT3412 box. I'm going to see how bad the interface is for a month or two and if it's really bad, I've still got time to get into the Tivo lifetime offer. But it will have to be pretty bad... The S3 can't do TTG or Multi Room, so I'd no longer be able to watch shows from my second Tivo, the CableCards can't do VOD, so I'd probably want to keep a set top box for the infrequent occasions I use VOD. And you just know that once the change to re-buy lifetime sub expires, the price of the hardware will come down, so there's very little that's compelling about the S3 right now. I've also got the promise of Verizon FiOS TV by the end of the year, so if Comcast don't come through with a Tivo software upgrade, and FiOS is cheaper, I could switch to them...
Honestly, if Tivo had got the S3 on the market within a few months of first showing it (ie a year ago), I'd probably have got one. Or if they'd managed to price it more like $500... at the current pricing it would take 15 years to break even over the Comcast alternative - there's no way any computer-based hardware is still going to be relavent in 15 years time..!

[HomieG]

GadgetGav, I found that it took about a month to get over the archaeic 3412 interface.

But it does work, and the DVR has been reliable for 3+ months. Not that I won't switch to the TiVo interface when it's available, but for now we've found the 3412 interface to be quite functional and allows us to do the things we wish. Let us know how your experience is.

[slightlyjaded]

I am anxiously awaiting the arrival of Comcast Tivo.

However, does anyone know if there are ANY plans in the works to offer some hardware with a bigger hard drive than the existing Motorola boxes?

15 hours of HD storage is just not even close to big enough.


Anyone heard anything?

[bstime]

given all the problems Tivo has had with reliable software....as much as I HATE the current interface on the moto/comcast box there really is NO WAY I would be willing to use Tivo software on the comcast/moto box. ..especially at an additional fee...i already am paying for a service that is not working from Tivo....

<rant>
Tivo has already screwed up my S2's twice, last with the god awful 7.3.1 "update" that has practically killed the 540's and has everyone in my house ready to throw them out the window.
</rant>

I really don't see how they can reliably support the comcast stuff. My only hope is that Comcast QE's the things to to death until what they get is reliable. It is almost certain that Comcast will carry weight in forcing Tivo to produce something for them that actually works...unlike us poor schleps that are stuck with consistent denials of any issues only to have them magically resolved 6 months later when they finally figure it out.

[slightlyjaded]

Though given the insanely buggy, excessively crappy, extremely user-unfriendly software that Comcast has had on the Motorola boxes since the things came out--with no meaningful software updates, fixes, or feature expansions as far as I know--I don't know why you'd expect them to lead the way in improvements to Tivo. If anything, I'd think the opposite would be more likely.

[GadgetGav]

GadgetGav, I found that it took about a month to get over the archaeic 3412 interface.

But it does work, and the DVR has been reliable for 3+ months. Not that I won't switch to the TiVo interface when it's available, but for now we've found the 3412 interface to be quite functional and allows us to do the things we wish. Let us know how your experience is.

In my first few days of using it, here are the things I've noticed:
There seems to be more 'OK' presses needed - it doesn't default to the 'go with these options' selection like Tivo does. A minor annoyance, but poor UI design.
I miss Wishlists for things which I know are coming but are not in the guide data yet - I used to set up a title wishlist so I wouldn't have to remember to go back and get it when it showed up in the guide.
HD space seems very limited - currently running at 35% full in less than a week. But, this would be an issue coming from expanded Tivos to a factory spec S3 too. I know the S3 disk is bigger, but still small compared to my S2s. But, since I still have the S2s, I can use the 3412 for HD exclusively.

General things I miss from Tivo:
Wishlists
Some UI touches
Very occasional use of setting recodings over the web
Very, very occasional use of photos on the TV
MRV, but the S3 can't do that, so I'd keep the S2s like I do now anyway.

Seems to me that since most of my computers in the house are Macs, I can save the $1000 I'd spend on an S3, get the Apple 'iTV' streaming device for photos, music and videos from the computers and live with the Moto DVR... Especially if the Comcast Tivo software adds wishlists.

[rodneyremington]

Well I've had 2 of the Comcast HD 6412 boxes now for about 18 months, as well as my series 2 tivo.

When I first got the Comcast boxes it was strictly to hold me over until Tivo came out with their 2 tuner HD models. Now, I really don't see a good reason to switch back to Tivo.

Unlike some others that have posted here, I find the Comcast Moto software to be pretty good. There are a couple bugs but nothing that significantly degrades the user experience. Actually there are several features that surpass the Tivo software. Viewing a picture window within the program and user guide is one of them. On-Demand is another huge one. It's really nice.

Sadly I think tiVo is too late really to win back a lot of customers like me who early-adapted to HD. My Comcast boxes cost very little per month and I'm renting them which means that every 6 months when something better comes out, I call up comcast and they bring me the new one.

[GadgetGav]

That rental point is a good one, especially if the cable companies go to CableCard 2 and make all CC1 hardware obsolete. You have to assume they'll be slow to adopt it and will carry both 1 and 2 for a while, but it's a big gamble to be taking with $800 hardware and $200+ subscription...

I think Tivo can see the end of hardware production in their future. If the software licencing model proves successful with Comcast, I can see that expanding. Other manufacturers will make CableCard based tuners which could also licence Tivo software. TV have to have CC slots built in, so why not build in a HD too and licence Tivo software directly into TVs... I doubt there will be a Series 4 even if there's still a Tivo company.