S3 with Cable Cards can NOT receive On Demand Movies

[MitchW]

I just noticed on the Charter site the following:

"However, a digital set-top box will still be required to access cable's two-way services, such as video-on-demand and impulse pay-per-view purchases, interactive program guides or interactive TV."

Cable cards block On Demand movies and pay per view movies. Thus, the new Tivo S3 HD will not get those programs.

Thus, I will probably stick with my TiVo S2 SD for the program's capabilities but still stick with just one Sony HD 32" LCD TV with a Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD attached.

I have 2 SD TV's one with TiVo and the other with a Scientific Atlanta DVR in addtion.

Does anyone here have a work around for that deficiency in the S3?

[DrDravenStone]

it's not a deficiency in the S3, it's the way cable card 1.0 works. 2 way communication will be available in cable card 2.0 but that spec is not yet useful...

Also, this has been known for a very long time.
Keep a cable co STB if you need this ability

[HomieG]

It's actually not that the CableCARD blocks OnDemand, rather it's because the current version of the CableCARD is one-way. OnDemand is bi-directional due to its interactive nature. It's not an S3 deficiency that I know of, just a decificency of the current version of CableCARD. The next version of CableCARD is supposed to support this, and presumably will also work with the S3 from what I've read.

[bferrell]

It's actually not that the CableCARD blocks OnDemand, rather it's because the current version of the CableCARD is one-way. OnDemand is bi-directional due to its interactive nature. It's not an S3 deficiency that I know of, just a decificency of the current version of CableCARD. The next version of CableCARD is supposed to support this, and presumably will also work with the S3 from what I've read.
I thought you could call the cable company to request/authorize a PPV movie and still watch it without a 2-way card, somehow, but it's not a big deal to me. I'll be intrested to try though.

Brett

[jfh3]

I thought you could call the cable company to request/authorize a PPV movie and still watch it without a 2-way card, somehow, but it's not a big deal to me. I'll be intrested to try though.

Brett


You can do something similar with DirecTV or Dish, but never heard about it for cable.

[greg_burns]

The next version of CableCARD is supposed to support this, and presumably will also work with the S3 from what I've read.

That's not what I read. CC 2.0 requires a S3 hardware change, IIRC.

http://www.tivolovers.com/Series3-Review.html
CableCARD 1.0 is unidirectional, and the Series3 will not support bidirectional card, if and when CC 2.0 is ever finalized. That means no OnDemand, no Pay-Per-View, no support for cable systems using Switched Digital Video. If these are concerns for you, then you need to think before buying. You would need to retain a cable box to access these features independently of the S3.

[MitchW]

Can the Scientific Atlanta HD non-DVR box be connected to the Tivo S3 and then the Tivo to the HD TV? Thus, no Cable Cards would be necessary and TiVo could record On Demand movies as well.

Could the TiVo remote control selection on the Scientific Atlanta HD non-DVR box with a direct connection?

Does anyone have a diagram on how to connect all this?

[SullyND]

Can the Scientific Atlanta HD non-DVR box be connected to the Tivo S3 and then the Tivo to the HD TV?

No.

The Series3 does not support external set-top boxes.

[gastrof]

The Series 3 has no way to control a cable box.

As far as cable is concerned, it was meant to work with "straight cable" (analog plugged directly in) or digital cable using a cable card.

I suppose if you set the Series 3 up to work with just analog cable, tuned it to channel 3, and had a cable box outputting a channel 3 RF signal, the Series 3 could record that, but it's a little hokey a setup...

It'd also likely be Standard Def.

[dianebrat]

I guess the point is lost on me,

In all my life I've never had a desire to do PPV or use OnDemand with my comcast box. It's always been very clearly communicated that cableCARD doesn't support these features.

With my on-the-way Series3 and cableCARD I get all the fantastic joy that is HD, tied to the amazing Tivo Guide and wishlists, and I get to make the motorola box go away (yay.. YAY.. YAY!!!) and that includes the simple dreadful Comcast userguide and OS.

I say "great!" they're not wasting time implementing features I've never used and have no desire to start using..

Diane

[gastrof]

On the other hand, Diane, you're also not getting features that others DO want, and hope will be doable later.

[sonicboom]

OH MY GOD!
It doesn't do PPV or VOD?
Seriously?

Well, I hope it still preserves the cable companies program guide :p

[ehardman]

Can I order an on demand movie from another cable box in my house and then watch it on my Tivo Series 3? Or are you only able to watch the movie on the TV with the box you order from?

[eisenb11]

Eric, you're best asking your cable company that question.

I'd guess "no" though.

[albrandwood]

Can I order an on demand movie from another cable box in my house and then watch it on my Tivo Series 3? Or are you only able to watch the movie on the TV with the box you order from?

That would really repend on the Cable company ....

With CVC, if and when (read twice in two years) I've ordered VOD movies, they have been available to all STB for 24 hrs ...

BUT as it is sent using VOD, that doesn't help... since the VOD requires bi-directional control.

If they broadcast it to all my STB simultaneously (ie, all STB's are showing the same stream (including the same pause/ff/rew) then in that case, (assuming that the CableCard will decode it) you could:
* Press play on the STB
* get the S3 to show the channel that the VOD is using ...
* rewind the VOD to the beginning ...
* Tell the S3 to record start recording that channel immediately ...

If the VOD stream is only sent to the STB from which "play" is pressed, (ie all STB can watch the stream independantly of each other) then I fail to see a way for the S3 to be able to record it, since (a) the stream is directed at the STB, and (b) the S3 would have no way to actually start the VOD ..

If/when TiVo S3 supports MRV then I'll be replacing all my S2's with S3's and will returning all the STB's ... At that point, I wont have any VOD ability ... Of course, if TiVo really does launch a video-download service, I won't be needing VOD anyway...

As for phone-controlled PPV ... I've not done that since Analog cable ... I know that CVC does still support Analog cable (and I'm pretty sure that TWC in NYC does) ... in which case, it's possible to record PPV that way ... (but analog doesn't provide VOD, as that is a digital only option.)

[Jason Hoover]

That's not what I read. CC 2.0 requires a S3 hardware change, IIRC.

http://www.tivolovers.com/Series3-Review.html

I believe HomieG is referring to the CC standard being backward compatible? So TiVo will be able to accept a 2.0 card, but the feature set will only be of the 1.0 version.

[andyf]

Technically you can watch Movies on Demand or PPV on the Series 3, just not the movies YOU demand. If you can find the right QAM channels you can watch what your nieghbors are watching. Little tricky getting in at the start of the movie unless your neighbor tells you when he starting it, but you can watch it.

[HomieG]

Technically you can watch Movies on Demand or PPV on the Series 3, just not the movies YOU demand. If you can find the right QAM channels you can watch what your nieghbors are watching. Little tricky getting in at the start of the movie unless your neighbor tells you when he starting it, but you can watch it.

We set the OnDemand movies up with our HD-DVR, get them playing, then watch them on the QAM channel on our upstairs TV, once we find out which channel they are showing it on. There's a selection of about 40 channels to go through.

[HomieG]

I thought you could call the cable company to request/authorize a PPV movie and still watch it without a 2-way card, somehow, but it's not a big deal to me. I'll be intrested to try though.

Brett


PPV yes. OnDemand, no.
Technically they are two different services. Most OnDemand programming is included in the price of the digital and premium channel service. There is some PPV within OnDemand, and some PPV outside of OnDemand.
At least with our system.

[jhurlbut]

We set the OnDemand movies up with our HD-DVR, get them playing, then watch them on the QAM channel on our upstairs TV, once we find out which channel they are showing it on. There's a selection of about 40 channels to go through.

And I thought this was just going to be another useless thread restating the obvious. . . But that little tidbit made the 3 minutes of skimming the thread well worth it! Will someone try this with the S3? We have one STB left that's OnDemand capapble and while I don't watch it often, it is cool when "nothing else is on" which was often basically because the UI sucked so bad on the Motorola box that I never recorded anything . . . well never mind . . . forget OnDemand! :D

[monkeydust]

I guess that means we'll have to plop down another $800 for a Series 4 with Cablecard 2.0 support. :(

[gwsat]

That the S3 can’t support CableCARD 2.0 came as a shock and is a deal breaker for me. S3 is clearly not ready for prime time, it seems to me. I won't consider a TiVo HD box until both CableCARD 2.0 is made available by Cox OKC and a TiVo HD box is available to support it. Too bad, but there it is.

[monkeydust]

That the S3 can’t support CableCARD 2.0 came as a shock and is a deal breaker for me. S3 is clearly not ready for prime time, it seems to me. I won't consider a TiVo HD box until both CableCARD 2.0 is made available by Cox OKC and a TiVo HD box is available to support it. Too bad, but there it is.
Well, you could always use the cable company's DVR until a 2.0 cablecard Tivo is released.

But, there's always some new technology just around the corner that will make current technology obsolete.

[gwsat]

Well, you could always use the cable company's DVR until a 2.0 cablecard Tivo is released.

But, there's always some new technology just around the corner that will make current technology obsolete.
That's no doubt what I will do.

It is my uinderstanding that the new 2.0 cards will work with existing TV sets. Is that right? If so, why won't the 2.0 cards work with the S3?

[SullyND]

It is my uinderstanding that the new 2.0 cards will work with existing TV sets. Is that right? If so, why won't the 2.0 cards work with the S3?

They will, BUT only one-way (Same with the TVs) they're lacking the hardware to make use of the two-way function of CC 2.0.

[gwsat]

They will, BUT only one-way (Same with the TVs) they're lacking the hardware to make use of the two-way function of CC 2.0.
SullyND -- Thanks for the info, although it's bad news. I bought a second HDTV a couple of months ago, a 32 inch Sony XBR LCD, which I naively though would be able to use the 2.0 card. Because of the 1.0 card's limitations, I went with a second HD DVR for my new Sony but had thought that with the 2.0 card I would be able to do everything with it that the box does except record. Silly me. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

The good news out of all this is that this limitation won't cost me any extra money because I simply won't buy an S3 and will keep the second HD DVR for my second TV.

[MitchW]

I had heard somewhere that TiVo may be licensing their software to Comcast and other Cable Providers soon. Thus, if that happens, for an additional monthly charge accessing two way services like On Demand and Pay Per View will be available on the provider's boxes like the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD.

Right now the S3 costs $ 800 plus $ 200 for life subscribers to upgrade. That's $ 1,000 with two main features not present. The SONY KDL-32S200 32" LCD HDTV can be purchased now for just $ 997.88 - LESS than the TiVo. The SA 8300 HD DVR doesn't have as good software as TiVo, but it will do for a year or two. Then it may contain TiVo software anyway. My main purpose here is to watch HD TV - not play with better software.

My feeling is to wait for the licensing to happen and save the $ 1,000.00. I'll just keep my S2 unused and wait for an S4 possible in future years or just settle with the licensed software. My decision is affected by price and the missing functions.

If the price was dropped in total from $ 1,000 to just $ 400.00, I would be pursuaded to jump to the S3 and forget the other features since I already have them on another HD TV anyway.

[SullyND]

I had heard somewhere that TiVo may be licensing their software to Comcast and other Cable Providers soon. Thus, if that happens, for an additional monthly charge accessing two way services like On Demand and Pay Per View will be available on the provider's boxes like the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD.

The Tivo software will run on the Moto boxes, so if your cable co uses SA you're out of luck.

[gwsat]

I have two SA HD DVRs so it looks as if the availability of TiVo software for them won't happen for awhile, if ever. I suppose it's possible that Cox OKC could change box brands but they have used SAs for a long time.

[HomieG]

I had heard somewhere that TiVo may be licensing their software to Comcast and other Cable Providers soon. Thus, if that happens, for an additional monthly charge accessing two way services like On Demand and Pay Per View will be available on the provider's boxes like the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD.

AFAIK, the development for TiVo software on Cox and Comcast DVR's does not include Scientific Atlanta DVR's, i.e. Motorola only, and the latter models at that.

Also, I can see the new software allowing accessing the two-way services, but I have not seen where it will allow recording of OnDemand and PPV (which I would like).

[dianebrat]

On the other hand, Diane, you're also not getting features that others DO want, and hope will be doable later.

gotcha 100% I just wanted to chime in to say there are differing opinions on if this is a plus or a minus :)

Diane

[MitchW]

AFAIK, the development for TiVo software on Cox and Comcast DVR's does not include Scientific Atlanta DVR's, i.e. Motorola only, and the latter models at that.

Also, I can see the new software allowing accessing the two-way services, but I have not seen where it will allow recording of OnDemand and PPV (which I would like).

By the way, the S2 can record 2 way services like On Demand and Pay Per View. That is not possible with the S3 or the SA 8300 HD. That makes me think I should just keep the S2 in service for awhile with a SD TV. However, I am still thinking of purchasing a second Sony 32" HD TV and retiring my S2. There is always the possibility that Scientific Atlanta will be coming out with their own software upgrade which could duplicate some TiVo features as well.

On Demand services are very important to me since they allow FREE viewing of hundreds of movies and specials and series from HBO, SHO, STRZ and MAX if one already subscribes to those services. Without On Demand on the S3 one would have to wait for them to appear in the normal schedules which could take MONTHS if ever. Pay Per View is of lesser importance but I do use them when I like NEW movies within 6 weeks of Theater introduction. Its too bad the S3 cannot operate HD Convertor Boxes from the Cable Provider as the S2 was able to do.

[gwsat]

By the way, the S2 can record 2 way services like On Demand and Pay Per View. That is not possible with the S3 or the SA 8300 HD. . . .
Since the S2 can use interactive services, is the inability of the S3 to do so, even with the new two-way CableCARDs, something that a software upgrade could fix, or is it caused by the configuration of the card slots? I thought I read that it is a hardware problem, which will require yet another new box to fix.

Also, the 8300HD operates interactively with the SA software, and I believe another developer's software too, so why wouldn't it be able to do so with TiVo software?

[megazone]

In all my life I've never had a desire to do PPV or use OnDemand with my comcast box. It's always been very clearly communicated that cableCARD doesn't support these features.Yeah, I've never really wanted OnDemand or PPV. The only thing I could see using is The Anime Network, which is usually done as an OnDemand network, but Charter doesn't carry it anyway. And I'm stuck with Charter in Worcester. (Until FiOS gets to my neighborhood...) With TiVo I have so much content that I couldn't watch it all anyway. And the S3 just makes it better.

[Kaldaien]

Heh, technically... On most cable systems any DCR device can receive On Demand Video signals. I do it all the time on my TV, channels 110-1 - 113-60 are On Demand channels that other people are watching (on my cable system); they're unencrypted. I can watch those channels any time I want, but I cannot control them and half the time I don't know what the person's watching. I suppose that's the price you pay for watching free VOD though ;)

[Krellion]

Since the S2 can use interactive services, is the inability of the S3 to do so, even with the new two-way CableCARDs, something that a software upgrade could fix, or is it caused by the configuration of the card slots? I thought I read that it is a hardware problem, which will require yet another new box to fix.
I believe the problem is that the Series3 boxes lack the needed hardware to transmit data back to the cable company.

[classicX]

Can I order an on demand movie from another cable box in my house and then watch it on my Tivo Series 3? Or are you only able to watch the movie on the TV with the box you order from?

No.

Unless when you are playing an on-demand movie, it is broadcast on a specific channel that the S3 can tune.

Unlikely.

[ehardman]

We set the OnDemand movies up with our HD-DVR, get them playing, then watch them on the QAM channel on our upstairs TV, once we find out which channel they are showing it on. There's a selection of about 40 channels to go through.

How do you identify the QAM channel? I'm new to HD.