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View Full Version : First Impressions (From A Non-Beta Tester)


TiVoToo
09-14-2006, 01:20 PM
S3 arrived yesterday afternoon (9/13). I unpacked it, set it up, activated it, and started Guided Setup starting about 5:30 pm after I got home from work. I 'played' with it until early this morning (and am paying for it now as I still had to get up and come to work this morning.)

Setup:
HDTV is Sony 60" A2000 SXRD. 5.1 DD/DTS Surround Sound via Sony V333ES receiver. Analog cable via BHN Central Florida. DT/HD via OTA antenna mounted in attic. No CableCards as yet. S3 connected to HDTV via HDMI. S3 audio via TOSLink to Receiver. S3 networked via wired Ethernet to broadband router.

I got picture and sound as soon as I plugged in the S3 power cord. No HDMI issues. No HDTV or audio issues.

Like:
1. Recording 2 HD programs while watching previously recorded HD program.
2. The Quiet! This thing is absolutely noiseless. You literally have to put an ear to it to hear anything.
3. The OLED display. Cool doesn't begin to describe it.
4. The THX intro.
5. The remote backlighting. More cool.
6. Same TiVo GUI. No learning curve for the family to use it.
7. Black glossy case and silver front. Matches the rest of my HT equipment.
8. Analog SD PQ is better than the S1 that this S3 replaced.

Dislike:
1. Black glossy finish is easily scratched/marred. Be careful when handling and installing this baby.
2. Unencrypted BHN QAM channels all assigned to Channel 0. No way to modify or label in order to tag for Manual Recording. My HDTV handles unencrypted BHN QAM channels much better than the S3, but that's a story for another thread. And the S3 doesn't find all of the unencrypted channels that my HDTV finds.
3. Channel Scan. Channel scan will scan cable and antenna to find all channels no currently in the channel list. My scan found over 400. Once scan is complete only choices are to add ALL found channels to Channel List, or not. I would have preferred to select channels to add to Channel List. There is an option to remove all scanned channels from Channel List (this only affects channels added by prior channel scan. These channels are indicated by an asterisk in the Channel List.)

Other:
1. Aspect. Native is recommended for HDTVs that can handle all formats. So, I started with Native aspect and let my HDTV reformat as needed. This resulted in slow channel changes and delays when switching back/forth from TiVo GUI to video. Changed aspect to 1080i fixed and changes were MUCH faster, but 480i/480p were zoomed. Plan to try 1080i Hybrid tonight.
2. I plan to use this recorder primarily for recording HD programs. Using Favorite Channels to tag just the DT channels that usually carry the HD content I would want to record made it easy to set up recordings.

Problems/Bugs:
1. Unable to tune the OTA transmission of the local Fox affiliate because no frequency is assigned to the channel. This appears to be a problem in the TiVo database for the Orlando area. All of the other digital channels in the database that I can receive have correct frequency assigned, and can be tuned. I've reported problem to TiVo.

I'll post some pictures of my setup this evening.

talmania
09-14-2006, 01:33 PM
Interesting news about the slowness of channel changing when using Native mode. That definitely concerns me.

Thanks for posting your impressions!

sharding
09-14-2006, 01:43 PM
Is the channel changing slowness coming from your TV switching modes, or from something in the TiVo? Our TV switches modes on channel changes now (with a comcast dvr), and it's not too bad. But we almost never "surf" that way (we just pick stuff from the guide, and then go to that channel), so we're probably not very sensitive to channel change speed.

megazone
09-14-2006, 01:43 PM
Interesting news about the slowness of channel changing when using Native mode. That definitely concerns me.The slowness is in the TV. If you change from a channel that is 1080i to a channel that is 480i then the TV has to reset itself. Some sets are slower about it than others. Mine does the same thing, a slight hiccup. But I don't surf, so it doesn't bother me. I notice it when watching a recording and I go from the 720p menus to something else, but it doesn't bother me at all.

TiVoToo
09-14-2006, 01:59 PM
Interesting news about the slowness of channel changing when using Native mode. That definitely concerns me.

Thanks for posting your impressions!

The combination of S3 and HDTV is slow when channel surfing with the TiVo in Native mode. The HDTV is 1080p and thus has to upconvert/deinterlace everything to 1080p. In 1080i Fixed Aspect, the HDTV only has to de-interlace. I haven't performed any objective test to determine if the slow surfing is the S3, or the TV, or both. I would note that when surfing DT channels on the HDTV using its built-in tuner, that the channel changes are quick. Some channels are 720p and some are 1080i. Surfing DT channels only on the S3 in Native is slower in comparison - ~1.5s. I will do a more objective test this weekend using a stopwatch, and also comparing with channel change speed of an DST-3000 HD tuner connected to the TV.

bsather
09-14-2006, 02:14 PM
8. Analog SD PQ is better than the S1 that this S3 replaced.

How is the Analog SD PQ compared to the direct connection to your TV?....providing you have tried it.

The Charter Moxi I have has horrendous SD PQ.....unwatchable on my 50" Sony SXRD.

megazone
09-14-2006, 02:14 PM
There will always be a delay with a DVR. There is a 1.5-2 second native delay for a channel change with the S3. The TV just tunes the channel and displays it.

A DVR, like the S3, tunes the channel, encodes it if it is analog, write the data to the drive, reads the data from the drive, decodes it, formats it for output, and sends it to the TV. The write/read/decode loop introduces an unavoidable delay.

TiVoToo
09-14-2006, 02:31 PM
There will always be a delay with a DVR. There is a 1.5-2 second native delay for a channel change with the S3. The TV just tunes the channel and displays it.

A DVR, like the S3, tunes the channel, encodes it if it is analog, write the data to the drive, reads the data from the drive, decodes it, formats it for output, and sends it to the TV. The write/read/decode loop introduces an unavoidable delay.

Concur.
My HTPC DVR outputs 1080i for all formats, and its channel change response time is subjectively identical to the S3 when in the S3 is in the equivalent 1080i Fixed Aspect mode. I would expect that if the HTPC DVR had Native mode, that its channel response time would be no better than the S3 in Native mode.

Since I don't ever use a DVR for channel surfing, the response to channel change command is really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. I only noticed it because I was surfing channels on the S3 to verify reception of the DT channels.

Dan203
09-14-2006, 02:53 PM
1. Unable to tune the OTA transmission of the local Fox affiliate because no frequency is assigned to the channel. This appears to be a problem in the TiVo database for the Orlando area. All of the other digital channels in the database that I can receive have correct frequency assigned, and can be tuned. I've reported problem to TiVo.

You can tune or record any OTA or QAM channel by simply entering it manually. (Hint: The skip button acts as the dash) So if your FOX channel is 17-1 you can simply enter it manually while watching live TV, or enter it while the channel list is highlighted in the manual recordings screen.

That being said if there is no guide data then your recordings will show up at the bottom of Now Playing listed as Manual:date / time

Dan

TiVoToo
09-14-2006, 03:03 PM
How is the Analog SD PQ compared to the direct connection to your TV?....providing you have tried it.

The Charter Moxi I have has horrendous SD PQ.....unwatchable on my 50" Sony SXRD.

As I recall, the PQ was the same.

TiVoToo
09-14-2006, 03:14 PM
You can tune or record any OTA or QAM channel by simply entering it manually. (Hint: The skip button acts as the dash) So if your FOX channel is 17-1 you can simply enter it manually while watching live TV, or enter it while the channel list is highlighted in the manual recordings screen.

That being said if there is no guide data then your recordings will show up at the bottom of Now Playing listed as Manual:date / time

Dan

I know that the virtual channel can be tuned this way and tried it, but I don't believe that the physical channel can be tuned this way. The local Fox affiliate (35) transmits on frequency DT-22, and its PSIP maps to virtual channel 35.1, or 35-1 (since S3 uses dash in place of dot). The virtual channel (35-1) is in the Channel List, and I can manually enter 35-1, but either way I get "Channel Unavailable" because the tuner doesn't know what physical channel (frequency) it needs to tune in order to display the virtual channel.

For more detail description of the problem, see http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4370428&&#post4370428