No recording OTA and Cable card?

[m_jonis]

If I read Megazone's review correctly, the minute you put in ONE cable card, the entire unit reverts to single tuner mode?

So you cannot record OTA AND a single cable card?

You've got to be kidding.

[bubba1972]

Install a second cable card and you can record either two cable shows, one cable and one OTA, or two OTA shows at a time.

[ah30k]

Of course using a second cable card will cost many of us an extra $9 per month. I was hoping for a single cable card and still being able to record two channels (with the obvious limit that only one could be encrypted). This is the asymetric tuning that megazone wished for in his review.

[bubba1972]

Gotcha, any news on when your cable co will provide multistream cards?

[m_jonis]

So, to make sure I'm understanding:

You cannot record OTA and ONE cable card channel WITHOUT having to buy and pay for TWO Cable Cards?

[ah30k]

So, to make sure I'm understanding:

You cannot record OTA and ONE cable card channel WITHOUT having to buy and pay for TWO Cable Cards?
Your understanding is correct according to megazone who is pretty on top of things.

[ah30k]

Gotcha, any news on when your cable co will provide multistream cards?Comcast should be late fall.

[bkdtv]

The second CableCard shouldn't cost you anything extra on most cable providers, once these companies and their reps understand how the Series3 works.

It's common in the cable TV industry to charge for services based on "outlets" -- that is, number of TVs. On Comcast, for example, the cost of two CableCards for one TV is totally different from the cost of one CableCard for two separate TVs.

The problem we are seeing right now is that many cable company reps don't understand how the Tivo works. Whenever they hear you say you want two CableCards, they think "he wants two TVs" and they want to charge you that extra outlet fee for the second TV. That's because every CableCard TV and device released before could only use one CableCard. The Tivo Series3 is the first of its kind.

The Series3 was just released yesterday. Give it a few weeks and more cable company reps will understand that it uses two CableCards for a single TV. Late October and early November, major cable companies will start to receive stock of multistream CableCards, so you'll only need one card -- that should simplify the issue for those customers who haven't been able to find a cable rep with a clue.

[ah30k]

Comcast was forcing the extra outlet pretty hard when I was there. Really hard. I was actually in a local office going around and around with them. I ************** and pulled all of the clout I could to convince them. I may have them convinced to see it my way but won;t be sure until Saturday.

[jfh3]

that should simplify the issue for those customers who haven't been able to find a cable rep with a clue.

Let's not go too far here ... The availability of M-stream cards isn't likely to increase the number of reps with a clue. :)

[smak]

I don't have cable, and don't have a cable card, but these cable companies are all over the map.

Just in the last few days here, i've seen them anywhere from free, and come and pick them up at the cable company, to the cable guy MUST install them, and they charge you $45 to install, and they're $12 a month to rent.

And everything in between.

Now it's some let you rent one, and get another, and some don't.

It's too bad that the FCC didn't have the foresite to know that giving out cable cards would be like pulling teeth to some of these companies, and set a few groundrules.

Some of these things are pretty ridiculous!

-smak-

[megazone]

So, to make sure I'm understanding:

You cannot record OTA and ONE cable card channel WITHOUT having to buy and pay for TWO Cable Cards?Correct.
NO CCs - two tuners, NTSC, ATSC, analog cable (and clear QAM with all the hassles)
ONE CC - ONE tuner, NTSC, ATSC, analog cable, digital cable.
TWO CCs - TWO tuners, NTSC, ATSC, analog cable, digital cable

NOTE: That's single-stream CCs.

[RMBittner]

"I don't have cable, and don't have a cable card, but these cable companies are all over the map."

Yeah, I've been perplexed at all the posts about cable guys having to come out to people's houses. My cable provider -- Millennium Digital, in mid-Michigan -- just said to come pick 'em up at the office. And it will cost us $3 less to lease the cards than it's costing us to lease the cable boxes we've been using.

Bob

[classicsat]

.
The problem we are seeing right now is that many cable company reps don't understand how the Tivo works. Whenever they hear you say you want two CableCards, they think "he wants two TVs" and they want to charge you that extra outlet fee for the second TV. That's because every CableCard TV and device released before could only use one CableCard. The Tivo Series3 is the first of its kind.


The root cause of the confusion is that they call it an "outlet" fee.

If they called it what it really is, an "access device" fee, there would be no confusion. The reason being, each cable box or cable card has to be entered into the authorisation system and added to a customer's account, and likely have a fixed cost in that.

How many cables are connected to the cable network is irrealvent really.

[cwoody222]

I agree, that's silly.

They have the UI for the one-digital / one-analog thing down for the DT S2. They should have learned something from that and done it with the S3.

[m_jonis]

Correct.
NO CCs - two tuners, NTSC, ATSC, analog cable (and clear QAM with all the hassles)
ONE CC - ONE tuner, NTSC, ATSC, analog cable, digital cable.
TWO CCs - TWO tuners, NTSC, ATSC, analog cable, digital cable

NOTE: That's single-stream CCs.


Wow. Am I the only one that thinks that's pretty stupid? (BTW, TW Cable charges per cable card).

Is this a hardware issue or something that can be addressed software-wise?

[megazone]

Wow. Am I the only one that thinks that's pretty stupid?It simplifies the code quite a bit, everything is always symmetric so it doesn't need to take source into account for conflict resolution - like the S2DT does. But the S2DT has a simple binary source issue. And the S3's code branched before the S2DTs was completed.

Is this a hardware issue or something that can be addressed software-wise?Sounds like software. But it may be moot in a couple of months when Multi-Stream CableCARDs are available.

[eziemann]

So if I have 2 CC's installed can I still have it record OTA or is it stuck using the digital cable sources?

[gwsat]

. . . But it may be moot in a couple of months when Multi-Stream CableCARDs are available.
megazone -- Is it likely that the new Multi-Stream CableCARDs will be available to all major cable providers in all markets at about that time? My provider is Cox OKC and I am about to decide that I won’t order an S3 until Cox can provide me with a Multi-Stream card. Thanks.

[Dan203]

I agree, that's silly.

They have the UI for the one-digital / one-analog thing down for the DT S2. They should have learned something from that and done it with the S3.

I think the S3 software is based off the same code branch as the 6.3 software which was just released for the DirecTV units. This branch never had asymetrical support and as such they couldn't add it to this release. If they merge the code from the most recent 7.3.1 release into this branch for the KidZone update then this should be a possibility. Although it's still possible that there is some sort of hardware limiation which prevents it.

Dan

[smak]

megazone -- Is it likely that the new Multi-Stream CableCARDs will be available to all major cable providers in all markets at about that time? My provider is Cox OKC and I am about to decide that I won’t order an S3 until Cox can provide me with a Multi-Stream card. Thanks.

Knowing cable companies, multi in the name of the card will make them think they can charge you twice as much for it.

-smak-

[megazone]

So if I have 2 CC's installed can I still have it record OTA or is it stuck using the digital cable sources?Yes, OTA still works with CableCARD installed.

[megazone]

megazone -- Is it likely that the new Multi-Stream CableCARDs will be available to all major cable providers in all markets at about that time?Likely? I couldn't say. The cards are available from manufacturers now - but the first batch of orders just went in and they'll be rolling out in the coming months. Early availability is going to be limited just because there aren't going to be many of them in the supply chain.