Display for Tivo S3; What type output from S3 is Best?

[stahta01]

I am thinking about getting Series 3 some time in the future, when I get the money and after I get an Display for it.

Am I right in thinking that HDMI output is better than Component (Y, Pb, Pr)?

I wish to be certain I get an display that works with Tivo S3 and get the best type of input.

Tim S

[aaronwt]

All the current HD sets should have a DVI or HDMI input as well as a component input.

[eisenb11]

You want a display with HDMI or DVI. Note that with DVI you'll need a little $30 DVI-to-HDMI converter.

If you're interested in understanding why these are better than component, here's a quicky explaination.

Your S3 gets digital data. Most modern HDTVs are also digital displays.

DVI/HDMI is a digital connector so if your TV has this:

1. you get digital in from the cable jack into your S3...
2. digital out the S3 into your TV...
3. your TV gets the digital from your S3 and puts the picture on the screen

Component is analog so this happens:

1. you get digital in from the cable jack into your S3...
2. your S3 converts the digital signal into analog then sends it out the component
3. your TV gets the analog signal, converts it to digital than displays it

With DVI/HDMI it's digital all the way through.

With component step (2) converts digital to analog. Step (3) converts analog back to digital.

Each time you convert the signal you lose quality.

So that's why DVI/HDMI is better than component in this case!

[NOD]

I am thinking about getting Series 3 some time in the future, when I get the money and after I get an Display for it.

Am I right in thinking that HDMI output is better than Component (Y, Pb, Pr)?

I wish to be certain I get an display that works with Tivo S3 and get the best type of input.

Tim S


In theory, HDMI should be superior to component, as it will transmit a digital signal, and it is generally considered preferable to get the digital-to-analog conversion as late in the signal transmission process as possible.

HOWEVER, the current iteration of HDMI can occasionally be a little buggy, and the PQ from component is frequently indistinguishable (and occasionally better than) from HDMI. Also, component can carry even up to a 1080p signal (obviously, this wouldn't be the case for s3, which maxes out at 1080i). Of course, all the folks that are sucking in your money for overpriced HDMI cables may tell you otherwise.

Caveat: Cnet review said they had some troubles transmitting some HD programming through component on the s3, and that they reported this to Tivo, who said this was NOT supposed to be the case., and that they would look into it. Presumably, it's just a minor bug that will be long solved by the time you get your HDTV.

My rule -- get as many hi-def inputs as possible. The more the better. :D That's why my latest TV has 2 DVI's, 1 HDMI, and 2 component inputs. The HD inputs add up quickly, though s3 will cut down that number by a little for those of us that have been using HD cable and OTA HD inputs separately.

[eisenb11]

Nod, careful there.

Component is not HDCP compliant, so if, and when, they turn on HDCP anything coming out of the component is going to be turned into junk.

Go DVI/HDMI and be done with it. No point in messing around with component and confusing people over the technicalities of current implementation!

Also, HDMI/DVI is easier for technically-challenged people to figure out how to plug-in :D

[NOD]

Nod, careful there.

Component is not HDCP compliant, so if, and when, they turn on HDCP anything coming out of the component is going to be turned into junk.

Go DVI/HDMI and be done with it. No point in messing around with component and confusing people over the technicalities of current implementation!

Also, HDMI/DVI is easier for technically-challenged people to figure out how to plug-in :D



Oh, don't get me started on HDCP... :D

If and when HDCP and ICT get implemented -- sure, component isn't future-proof. But until HDMI 1.3 comes out and fixes some of the old HDMI issues, I'M NOT GIVIN' IN TO DA MAN!! ;)

[stahta01]

Thank you all for the feedback, I was thinking of going HDMI or DVI, just wish to be sure it is better. I realize now that not all HDMI or DVI implementations may be done correctly. I already know that Component is not HDCP compliant.

Thanks again,
Tim S

[NOD]

For all intents and purposes, ALL HDMI is HDCP compliant

Pretty much all TV's sold these days w/ DVI have HDCP-compliant DVI as well. Some earlier TV's had DVI inputs that weren't.

Otherwise, HDMI and DVI are essentially the same (except for the fact that HDMI obviously carries digital sound as well) -- hence the incredible ease w/ which HDMI-to-DVI cables can be used.

[Dssturbo1]

it is more dependent on your display as to which can look better. usually if you calibrate your inputs they probably will look equally as good. or at least then you can make a better choice as to which looks better to you.

just don't buy the overpriced/hyped cables. use monoprice.com they have good solid well built cables for great prices.

[talmania]

One other point worth mentioning is that HDMI can carry the audio signal as well. And seeing how the S3 will downconvert audio to PCM (which is most likely all that any display will be able to accept), you can run video and audio through one cable to the TV.

That may or may not be important to you if you always listen through surround speakers but speaking as one with children in the house (one 2 years old and another 3 months old) sometimes it's necessary to turn off the surround and just listen through the television's speakers.

[eisenb11]

Oh, don't get me started on HDCP... :D

If and when HDCP and ICT get implemented -- sure, component isn't future-proof. But until HDMI 1.3 comes out and fixes some of the old HDMI issues, I'M NOT GIVIN' IN TO DA MAN!! ;)

Hey wait a minute... isn't buying a S3 that uses CableLabs technology giving into the man?!?! ;)

[NOD]

we all have our limits.:D

[eisenb11]

Lol :)

[SoBayJake]

You want a display with HDMI or DVI. Note that with DVI you'll need a little $30 DVI-to-HDMI converter.You might check ebay for a HDMI-DVI cable (not including audio).

I bought one recently for $4 plus $5 shipping, for a 10 ft cable. Don't buy one at Best Buy or the like, it will cost you a fortune.

[NOD]

everyone say it together -- monoprice.com

There is no better place to get great cables (AND switches, BTW) for a ridiculously good (and seemingly illegal) price.

[eisenb11]

You might check ebay for a HDMI-DVI cable (not including audio).

I bought one recently for $4 plus $5 shipping, for a 10 ft cable. Don't buy one at Best Buy or the like, it will cost you a fortune.

Ya, I was in a hurry to get one and picked it up at Fry's.

Definately go to eBay or some online wholesaler if you have the time and don't forget about it until the unit arrives... like I did :D

[SoBayJake]

everyone say it together -- monoprice.com

There is no better place to get great cables (AND switches, BTW) for a ridiculously good (and seemingly illegal) price.
For a regular site, they seem ok. But you can still shave a few dollars off their prices via ebay, for cables at least. I have never looked into a DVI or HDMI switch.

[eisenb11]

Every DVI/HDMI switch that's HDCP compliant that I've seen with more than 4 ports was priced pretty scary.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall 4 port switches generally being in the $300-$500 range.

[SoBayJake]

Every DVI/HDMI switch that's HDCP compliant that I've seen with more than 4 ports was priced pretty scary.

I could be wrong, but I seem to recall 4 port switches generally being in the $300-$500 range.
If that's the case, then Monoprice.com is not bad..they have one (that is HDCP compliant) for $122. Amazon has some from 3rd party sellers in that range, or a OneCall for $350. :eek:

[NOD]

The 5-port HDMI switch at monoprice (with a remote) is GREAT.

edited to add -- and ridiculously cheap, of course. :D

[megazone]

One other point worth mentioning is that HDMI can carry the audio signal as well. And seeing how the S3 will downconvert audio to PCM (which is most likely all that any display will be able to accept),Newer displays handle Dolby Digital just fine - my new Samsung does. It'll even bypass the sound out an Optical Out jack to also feed a surround system.

[eisenb11]

The 5-port HDMI switch at monoprice (with a remote) is GREAT.

edited to add -- and ridiculously cheap, of course. :D

For me, I get to throw in an additional requirement to complicate things... must be controllable via rs-232 or ethernet :D

[jes218]

When my S3 arrived, I went ahead and set it up without the cable cards. I used the tivo-supplied HDMI cable into a Sony KD 34XBR970.

All the analog channels came in fine. This included Comcast's "basic" AND "Standard" lineups.

Then, after Comcast installed the cards, the "Standard" channels, as well as all the digital channels would come up with a TiVo error message: "Viewing is not permitted using the TiVo Digital media Recorder...Try another TV input."

I do see the channel for about 5 seconds before the above message appears.

When I change to composite input, all channels work fine. Even though the HDMI is still plugged in.

After speaking with TiVo's engineering department, I found out that my TV needed to be "HDCP Compliant," which is High Def Copy Protection compliant. OR, I needed to be able to turn copy protection off.

I called Sony, and they confirmed that my TV is HDCP Compliant.

So, how can I watch TV using the HDMI only...?

TIA

Jim

[generalpatton71]

When my S3 arrived, I went ahead and set it up without the cable cards. I used the tivo-supplied HDMI cable into a Sony KD 34XBR970.

All the analog channels came in fine. This included Comcast's "basic" AND "Standard" lineups.

Then, after Comcast installed the cards, the "Standard" channels, as well as all the digital channels would come up with a TiVo error message: "Viewing is not permitted using the TiVo Digital media Recorder...Try another TV input."

I do see the channel for about 5 seconds before the above message appears.

When I change to composite input, all channels work fine. Even though the HDMI is still plugged in.

After speaking with TiVo's engineering department, I found out that my TV needed to be "HDCP Compliant," which is High Def Copy Protection compliant. OR, I needed to be able to turn copy protection off.

I called Sony, and they confirmed that my TV is HDCP Compliant.

So, how can I watch TV using the HDMI only...?

TIA

Jim

You may want to call your cable company. There has been many times where Cable co's have wrongly flagged a channel or two that can cause play back problems with HDCP. I'm sure if you plugged in component you wouldn't have any problems. This is why HDCP shouldn't exist.However it doesn't explain why you analogs don't come in. This could be a cable card issue rather then hdcp, but I'm confused though if composite works that would indicate a hdcp issue.

You may try changing the resolution on the S3 several times. My TV sometimes has a handshake issue with HDCP and by changing the resolution on my HR10-250 hd tivo it causes it to do the process over again fixing the problem. You might also want to look up your TV at the avs forums. They often have a thread for sony tvs and you might be able to see if other users have had issues with the hdmi port.

[vman41]

Everyone talks about deinterlacer quality, but I never see any discussion of how well converting 720p to 1080i is done. I guess it is an easier problem to solve, though some might do it the quick and dirty way of scaling the signal to 540p at half the frame rate.