Too little too late...

[lowepg]

Been using Tivo FOREVER- currently have 3 running right now in my house..... but I will not be buying a series 3.

I got a 42"plasma HD about 6 months ago and finally bit the bullet and "tried" cable hd dvr about 3 weeks ago- wanted it for football season, fall tv, etc...

Guess what- its pretty decent. dual tuner, picture-in-picture, all-in-one remote, etc.

Here's the killer- it cost me exactly $6.99 to try.

When I saw the $799 announcement- it solidifed my choice.....

I'll keep a couple TIVO's running for other TV's and tivotogo, etc- but Ive definitely BOUGHT by last box.....

I have to wonder if *I* was willing to defect- having been a hardcore TIVO user and geek.....it cant bode well for the masses that aren't emotioanlly attached to tivo like I was.....

[Dssturbo1]

so your title should have been

Too Little, Too late, Too Much!

[maki]

"Too little too late" I don't know, I'm still interested in having one. How can you "have been" a hardcore TiVo user? Seems to me a hardcore fan would stick around, no matter what. :)

[tldjr1877]

I was so excited reading the TiVo news that for $199 we could transfer a lifetime subscription to the HD dual tuner series 3 boxes. Hell yes. Finally I thought. Then I clicked the link and saw the $799 price tag.

Are you kidding me!?!? Forget it. That is really ridiculous. You can buy a DLP TV for about that price. I would have updated 2 of my boxes immediately if it was just the $199 price tag. I'd love to see sales figures in a few months. Who would purchase it when you can use your old series 2 that we already paid the lifetime for (I'm in for 4 of 'em - across fam members), or pay satellite or cable pennies a month (most of which is wrapped into packages so it is essentially free) for the dual tuner HD boxes.

I'm really interested to see what everyone says/thinks. I think TiVo is either making its way into the luxury segment or just had the wrong people in a focus group during this research. It's sad actually because I love TiVo. Oh well. I can't wait to read what others think. Maybe I'm way off and you are all going to plunk down the 8 bills to upgrade.

[maki]

Are you kidding me!?!? Forget it. That is really ridiculous. You can buy a DLP TV for about that price. I would have updated 2 of my boxes immediately if it was just the $199 price tag. I'd love to see sales figures in a few months. Who would purchase it when you can use your old series 2 that we already paid the lifetime for (I'm in for 4 of 'em - across fam members), or pay satellite or cable pennies a month (most of which is wrapped into packages so it is essentially free) for the dual tuner HD boxes.


It looks like these people bought it: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315997

And those are just people who have posted on this forum...


I'm really interested to see what everyone says/thinks. I think TiVo is either making its way into the luxury segment or just had the wrong people in a focus group during this research. It's sad actually because I love TiVo. Oh well. I can't wait to read what others think. Maybe I'm way off and you are all going to plunk down the 8 bills to upgrade.

You're correct, in a way. Most people assume this product is aimed towards people with high end systems who only want the best. I hate to say this since it's been over used, but people who will drop the cash in a minute are mostly those who've already spent hundreds and thousands on their systems. $800 for the "cadillac" of TiVo DVRs is not too bad.

The price might come down as the hype is over and the cost of parts drops. I myself won't be getting one immediately, as it is a lot of money. It also doesn't make sense to be an early adopter as I don't even have a cable box with my cable, let alone digital/HD.

The only reason I'll get one is because I'm a big fan. :D

[Turtleboy]

I was so excited reading the TiVo news that for $199 we could transfer a lifetime subscription to the HD dual tuner series 3 boxes. Hell yes. Finally I thought. Then I clicked the link and saw the $799 price tag.

Are you kidding me!?!? Forget it. That is really ridiculous. You can buy a DLP TV for about that price. I would have updated 2 of my boxes immediately if it was just the $199 price tag. I'd love to see sales figures in a few months. Who would purchase it when you can use your old series 2 that we already paid the lifetime for (I'm in for 4 of 'em - across fam members), or pay satellite or cable pennies a month (most of which is wrapped into packages so it is essentially free) for the dual tuner HD boxes.

I'm really interested to see what everyone says/thinks. I think TiVo is either making its way into the luxury segment or just had the wrong people in a focus group during this research. It's sad actually because I love TiVo. Oh well. I can't wait to read what others think. Maybe I'm way off and you are all going to plunk down the 8 bills to upgrade.

So you're mad that you aren't getting something for nothing? :confused:

You want something for free? And this public company with employees and shareholders is supposed to make money how??

[tldjr1877]

I'm not mad at all. Mostly shocked. It appears to push people (including myself) out of the fun tv toy market. I personally cannot justify it. I posted to see what others thought = healthy debate. Always assume best intent on posts.

Plus, I am a cable subscriber so I would have to get two cable cards at $3.50 each per month to recieve HD. Why wouldn't someone just get the cable HD box? I love the series 2 and as I said I have 4 of them and love the home networking for everyone in my home. Just not going to drop 800 for a multimedia machine that still ties me to my cable company. That's my $.02.

My TiVo boxes are going nowhere. It is an interesting debate because it's really $1000 pricetag to get it to your door and transfer the series 2 license. Once at your door to get HD you have to get two cable cards or I guess enjoy the handful of over the air channels. Right? Unless I'm missing something it doesn't seem like the greatest of deals. I'll continue to monitor to see what others post.

In direct response to your shareholders comment, I can only say that I don't care at all. I never take shareholders and company profitability into consideration when spending my own money on anything related to entertainment.

[someToast]

Plus, I am a cable subscriber so I would have to get two cable cards at $3.50 each per month to recieve HD. Why wouldn't someone just get the cable HD box?
Have you used the cable HD box? Here's some of the joy that my Motorola 6412 from Comcast has brought me in eight months time (in addition to known bugs (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs)).
Occasionally loses audio when using FF/30 second skip. Have to go into previous recordings and play a bit of one of them to get it back.
Will get in a state where the current recording plays, but the status bar doesn't update, can't change channels or switch tuners. Reboot.
Displays "YOUR SCHEDULED RECORDING HAS FINISHED" in a box in the middle of the screen for a good 15 seconds when a recording finishes on the other tuner (can be dismissed with the remote).
Gets confused when trying to get a season pass (sorry, "series recording") for a show on an HD channel when you have an existing recording scheduled for a show of the same name on standard def (it won't record the HD show, but when you go in to do it manually, it wants to edit the series recording).
Can't be programmed over the internet.
Don't touch the untitled "12/31/1989" recordings that randomly appear in your DVR list.
No tickmarks to jump to on playback. If you want to see the last 15 minutes of a two hour movie, hit FF four times and wait.
Loud hard drive. Bright LED channel display that can't be turned off (but can be made to show the time instead).
Guide data often a crap-shoot. TBS falls victim to this quite a bit.
Battery door on the remote is right where you grasp it. Pops off with the brush of a finger.
Occasionally loses the ability to rewind or use the 15 second jump back.
Loses all guide data when unplugged.
12 hours HD recording space. No plans for future expansion options.
I'll be getting a series 3.

[russwong]

I think it's a little late for me as well.... I would have paid $800 2-3 years ago, but in that time, I've been able to build my own and more have used the Moto box themselves, so I find the regular masses will be okay with not getting it.

Yeah there will be the really hardcore Tivo people who will be early adopters, as I was an early adopter of the series 1 and was willing to pay a premium, because it was only Tivo and Replay. Now there are too many choices and I have tasted the others and I'm okay with it not being as good.. at some point though, I think the prices will drop down enough or the Comcast/Tivo box will come out and then I'll probably revist. Until then, keeping my Tivo to record SD and backup my HD DVR.

[megazone]

I think TiVo is either making its way into the luxury segmentYou hit the nail on the head.

[vman41]

I think TiVo is either making its way into the luxury segment

Best Buy, Circuit City, and Radio Shack are wrong retail outlets for that.

[lowepg]

How can you "have been" a hardcore TiVo user? Seems to me a hardcore fan would stick around, no matter what. :)

Just because I dont fall into the group of folks who "had chills" (<<---- Actual quote!) they were so excited at this annoucement? No- sorry- while I enjoy time shifting TV- its not my focal point of life.

Sorry- I like TIVO- but wont follow it blindly. This is certainly no bleeding-edge release. I had to go backwards in my TIVO use a year ago when I moved away from my DirecTivo's.... hell- we had dual tuner and HD support YEARS ago....

But still I bought 3 new series2 units and learned to live without dual tuners (unhappily). But here I draw the line- just because I became comfortable with the TIVO interface- Im not going to look past:
1. $800 for an unproven box.
2. sketchy long-term cable-card issues
3. crippled functionality (TTG, MRV, etc)

Tivo seems to be moving backwards....

It's was too easy to try cable DVR at this point- especially when "trying" TiVO comes with a minimum contract and $800 price tag!

[seattlewendell]

$799 plus 12.95 per
vs.
or $10 per for my crappy Moto box.
At $799 plus $12.95 i will break even......NEVER. Thanks Tivo.
Well on the series 3, Multi room veiwing is not activated yet, Tivo to go is not activated yet, the expsanion port for external hard drives is not active yet. Other than the Tivo interface how is this box differnet from my Moto Box?

[cwerdna]

Have you used the cable HD box? Here's some of the joy that my Motorola 6412 from Comcast has brought me in eight months time (in addition to known bugs (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs)).
Occasionally loses audio when using FF/30 second skip. Have to go into previous recordings and play a bit of one of them to get it back.
Will get in a state where the current recording plays, but the status bar doesn't update, can't change channels or switch tuners. Reboot.
Displays "YOUR SCHEDULED RECORDING HAS FINISHED" in a box in the middle of the screen for a good 15 seconds when a recording finishes on the other tuner (can be dismissed with the remote).
Gets confused when trying to get a season pass (sorry, "series recording") for a show on an HD channel when you have an existing recording scheduled for a show of the same name on standard def (it won't record the HD show, but when you go in to do it manually, it wants to edit the series recording).
Can't be programmed over the internet.
Don't touch the untitled "12/31/1989" recordings that randomly appear in your DVR list.
No tickmarks to jump to on playback. If you want to see the last 15 minutes of a two hour movie, hit FF four times and wait.
Loud hard drive. Bright LED channel display that can't be turned off (but can be made to show the time instead).
Guide data often a crap-shoot. TBS falls victim to this quite a bit.
Battery door on the remote is right where you grasp it. Pops off with the brush of a finger.
Occasionally loses the ability to rewind or use the 15 second jump back.
Loses all guide data when unplugged.
12 hours HD recording space. No plans for future expansion options.
I'll be getting a series 3.
Which software is on yours? I'm guessing it's iGuide.

[ajj13075]

I can't believe I was so excited about the Series 3 that I just went and bought one with out really reading into it. I had DirecTV because I live in an area where that or Dish are my only options. How retarded is it that an $800 machine can't record from my DirecTV?? I just bought a $4000 Sony HDTV that I can't even enjoy. I was good with it cause I knew that S3 was coming, but now it seems it doesn't matter. I have had Tivo since it came out and am deeply in love with it and it's service but there comes a breaking point and I feel this is it. It's funny the price didn't even matter to me I just wanted to record in HD. Looks like I will be turning to DirecTV for that ability :mad: :mad: :mad:

[megazone]

There are very good reasons for why it doesn't record from satellite - plenty of old posts about it.

[ajj13075]

can u point me in the direction of these old posts?

[PotentiallyCoherent]

Man, you guys are overreacting, the price will come down.

[megazone]

can u point me in the direction of these old posts?The 'Search' link in the menu bar at the top. Try things like 'sattelite series3' and such combinations. It has come up way too many times, I'm sure you'll find something.

[someToast]

Which software is on yours? I'm guessing it's iGuide.Yes. That is the name of my pain. ;)

[CreativeGuy]

(TiVo Series 3)

$799 for a TiVo that the majority of us jumped in on the special deals to get.

$199 to change over my lifetime membership that I can't even purchase anymore.

They finally got ethernet built in, but don't tell you anything about it. They probably used 10 Mbps instead of 10/100/1000 (that is GigaBit Ethernet) and do not want to say anything. How many people want to slash their wrists waiting for TiVo-To-Go to transfer files through the USB ethernet adapter (max 11 Mbps). I tried it two times and gave up.

They should fire the marketing department and get the old one back before they go out of business.

1) I might have considered $499 for something like this, but there should be the non-HD version (including the ethernet) for $399.

2) I want a lifetime membership, not another subscription.

3) I wanted to buy 2 more boxes for myself, and I know several friends wanted to buy boxes too. We are NOT buying any more boxes until TiVo pulls their head out of where ever it is they stuck it.

[tunnelengineer]

thanks for signing up to post that....

As for 1) Just buy another series 2.

This is a computer people!! Go try and build one yourself and see how much it costs. You are asking for something for nothing. If tivo would sell these for $399 they would be out of business by christmas.

No one is forcing you people to buy these. I know I can't afford a Hummer, that's why I bought a Ford. Do I go on the Hummer Forums and post how overpriced they are? NO. This is a premium product not designed for the masses.

[cheer]

thanks for signing up to post that....

As for 1) Just buy another series 2.Great answer. Unless you want encrypted QAM. Or OTA NTSC (can't be done on the S2DT -- and no other dual tuner models available). Or...This is a computer people!! Go try and build one yourself and see how much it costs. You are asking for something for nothing. If tivo would sell these for $399 they would be out of business by christmas. Depends on feature/functionality. I could build you a myth box with quad ATSC tuners for less than $800 easily. But that's really becoming apples/oranges, and anyway Tivo's costs aren't my problem, or any other consumer's problem.
No one is forcing you people to buy these. I know I can't afford a Hummer, that's why I bought a Ford. Do I go on the Hummer Forums and post how overpriced they are? NO. This is a premium product not designed for the masses.
You're right. Even if we have valid opinions and are fans of other models, we should just shut up because (evidently) the fact that some of us think this is a tad overpriced is offending others.

Or is there some other reason you're so defensive?

[tunnelengineer]

You cannot build ANY box right now, Myth or otherwise, that can record HDTV and digital signals over Cable. With Vista there is a small hope for this, but thats months away and will be way more than $800 with 6 tuners.

I am getting defensive because I see quite a few of the same posts with people whining that they should be able to get a S3 very cheaply (one poster said it should be free with the lifetime transfer of $199) and give no justification as to why the box with those capabilities should be cheap. So no, you do not have a valid opinion as to why it is overpriced.

[cheer]

You cannot build ANY box right now, Myth or otherwise, that can record HDTV and digital signals over Cable. With Vista there is a small hope for this, but thats months away and will be way more than $800 with 6 tuners.You are incorrect. You cannot build a box that does ENCRYPTED QAM, but unencrypted QAM is absolutely doable. And "6 tuners" is misleading -- the S3 has two, just six different possible sources. There are cards for the PC that are similar.

But you are correct overall; if encrypted QAM is something you want, the S3's only real competition is a cableco DVR.
I am getting defensive because I see quite a few of the same posts with people whining that they should be able to get a S3 very cheaply (one poster said it should be free with the lifetime transfer of $199) and give no justification as to why the box with those capabilities should be cheap. So no, you do not have a valid opinion as to why it is overpriced.
Yes, I do. And I have never whined, and I have never said it should be very cheap, and I have never said it should be free. I said that, in my opinion, $800 is too much for what you get. That's just as valid as yours, and you don't see me telling you that your opinion isn't valid.

And I still don't understand why such whining by others would make you defensive. You don't work for Tivo, do you?

[DTSDude]

You cannot build ANY box right now, Myth or otherwise, that can record HDTV and digital signals over Cable. With Vista there is a small hope for this, but thats months away and will be way more than $800 with 6 tuners.

I am getting defensive because I see quite a few of the same posts with people whining that they should be able to get a S3 very cheaply (one poster said it should be free with the lifetime transfer of $199) and give no justification as to why the box with those capabilities should be cheap. So no, you do not have a valid opinion as to why it is overpriced.

And even when those other cable card implementations are available you'll still have to buy a prebuilt system. There's no plans to ever allow an individual to build his or her own cable card based PVR.

TiVo knows they put out a winner. It's still way too early to pass judgement on a product that will be maturing over the next couple years. Early adopters always pay a heafty price, both in real cash and in real frustration. The way of the world.

[beanpoppa]

Here's my rub - It's $800+$156/year, or $1580 total revenue to TiVo over 5 years. (a reasonable life of a box) On top of that, Tivo sells advertising, sells user statistics, etc, which brings their revenue per box even higher.

It wouldn't be the $800 price that drove me away if it were only that. And it wouldn't be the $13/mo that drove me away if the box were $200 or less. But both of those together is rather steep.

And without MRV, and Tivo2Go features, IMHO it just doesn't differentiate itself enough to justify the EXTREME price difference when compared to cable company offerings.

[JohnBrowning]

Been using Tivo FOREVER- currently have 3 running right now in my house..... but I will not be buying a series 3.

I got a 42"plasma HD about 6 months ago and finally bit the bullet and "tried" cable hd dvr about 3 weeks ago- wanted it for football season, fall tv, etc...

Guess what- its pretty decent. dual tuner, picture-in-picture, all-in-one remote, etc.

Here's the killer- it cost me exactly $6.99 to try.

When I saw the $799 announcement- it solidifed my choice.....

I'll keep a couple TIVO's running for other TV's and tivotogo, etc- but Ive definitely BOUGHT by last box.....

I have to wonder if *I* was willing to defect- having been a hardcore TIVO user and geek.....it cant bode well for the masses that aren't emotioanlly attached to tivo like I was.....


Great! Now if all you "I'm not buying S3! folks would post in 1 thread, it would be easier to ignore! Jeeze, this is getting old fast...

[lowepg]

Great! Now if all you "I'm not buying S3! folks would post in 1 thread, it would be easier to ignore! Jeeze, this is getting old fast...

I would have thought the subject "too little too late" would be clue enough to understand the thread and help you ignore it.

I could say the same about the S3-Gushers keeping their posts in 1 thread- but this is a discussion forum.... get it?

[albrandwood]

Here's my rub - It's $800+$156/year, or $1580 total revenue to TiVo over 5 years. (a reasonable life of a box) On top of that, Tivo sells advertising, sells user statistics, etc, which brings their revenue per box even higher.
I would have thought the primary thing that drove you away, is that you are a satelite subscriber (or at least so your signature indicates), and so won't be using an S3 anyway ...
It wouldn't be the $800 price that drove me away if it were only that. And it wouldn't be the $13/mo that drove me away if the box were $200 or less. But both of those together is rather steep.
I currently have 2x S1 Lifetimes, 3x S2 MSD, and 1x CableVision SA8300HD.

If I replace an S2 with an S3 and return that cable decoder, and return the SA8300HD ...

$800 Purchase
$336 TiVo Service (4yrs*12mths*$7MSD)
$ 96 Cablecard Rental (4yrs*12mths*$2)
=====
$1232 Cost over 4 years.
-$240 CableVision SA4200 (used by the S2 $5/mth)
-$240 CableVision SA8300HD (Hardware Rental $5mth)
-$480 Cablevision DVR Service (used by the SA8300HD $10mth)
-$336 TiVo Service used by the outgoing S2
=====
$-64 I'd _SAVE_ $64 over 4 years!!!

Alternatively, I replace a lifetime (S1 in my case)

$800 S3 Purchase
$199 Tivo service
$ 96 Cablecard Rental
====
$1095 over 4 years
-$240 Cablevision SA4200 used by the S1
-$240 Cablevision SA8300HD
-$480 Cablevision DVR Service
=====
$135

Replacing an S1 lifetime with an S3 Lifetime and getting rid of the SA8300HD would cost $135 over 4 years ... or $2.81 a month ...

And without MRV, and Tivo2Go features, IMHO it just doesn't differentiate itself enough to justify the EXTREME price difference when compared to cable company offerings.

This is the thing that annoys me. People seem to thing that all cable companies are the same.

Given that Cablevision charges $5/mth for the DVR, and $10/mth for the DVR Service (without which, its functionally equivalent to an SA4200HD) they aren't that cheap. Their service is appauling, and as I've shown above, it's actually going to save me money to be able to get a TiVo and return the SA8300HD.

@

[megazone]

They probably used 10 Mbps instead of 10/100/1000 (that is GigaBit Ethernet) and do not want to say anything.It is 10/100baseT.

How many people want to slash their wrists waiting for TiVo-To-Go to transfer files through the USB ethernet adapter (max 11 Mbps).S2, S2DT, and S3 boxes all have USB2.0, *except* the very first S2 boxes, the 1xx models, with USB1.1. And they support 10/100baseT adapters and 802.11g. Some models are slower than others, because the bottleneck is the CPU, but I transfer with my 810H and S2DT better than realtime for Best level recordings - the 810H is TiVo's 11g adapter, the S2DT is wired.

1) I might have considered $499 for something like this, but there should be the non-HD version (including the ethernet) for $399.That's the S2DT.

2) I want a lifetime membership, not another subscription.And I want a pony.

We are NOT buying any more boxes until TiVo pulls their head out of where ever it is they stuck it.That's nice.

[classicX]

It looks like these people bought it: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315997

And those are just people who have posted on this forum...

So... at the time I'm posting - 43.

Of course, that number has no meaning unless we can somehow divine the number of total Tivo users and the number of those with HD. And then we must somehow find out how many new subscriptions there have been.

But given that, there are about 66750 registered users on this forum. 43/66750 is a pretty low percentage, I'd say about .0006. Now of course, some of those users are idle, some bought the S3 but didn't respon to that post, so we'd need a lot more numbers.

FYI - none of these numbers mean anything.

:)

[classicX]

I think TiVo is either making its way into the luxury segment

without offering any luxury amenities, mind you.

And what makes you think there was a focus group??

[classicX]

He asks..

How retarded is it that an $800 machine can't record from my DirecTV??

And he answers...

I just went and bought one with out really reading into it.

I just don't understand this...

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[classicX]

Other than the Tivo interface how is this box differnet from my Moto Box?

There is none.

[cheer]

1) I might have considered $499 for something like this, but there should be the non-HD version (including the ethernet) for $399.That's the S2DT.
No it's not. The S2DT doesn't do OTA recording, nor does it do CableCard. So if I want to use cable, I'm stuck with analog -- or, an analog encode from a cable box controlled by an IR blaster or whatever. (And I still can't do OTA, though that's less of an issue without HD I suppose.)

[jfh3]

There is none.

The Moto box can't record OTA and is difficult to get if you only want to record analog cable.

[ah30k]

The Moto box can't record OTA and is difficult to get if you only want to record analog cable.Hadn't thought of that. Add it to the list of +'s for S3

[DDayDawg]

Well, I was really looking forward to the S3 coming out but like others the price tag has scared me off a bit. I'm sitting on a two-year old HR10-250 and was willing to make the switch to cable but right now it's just not worth dumping a $1000 box to move to a $800 box. Especially one that cannot support the, not yet finialized, CableCard2 standard.

I will own a S3 one day but unfortunately I can't justify early-adopter status like I did with the 10-250. I'll just stay with D* for now and pray that the CableCard2 version at a lower price comes out before D* makes my 10-250 obsolete. This is just a crappy position to be in.

[jmoak]

to those who are upset about the price of today's series 3:

What would have been your reaction a few years ago to a product that would only record sd tv, couldn't record a direct digital stream, had no mrv, no tivo2go, no ethernet or even usb ports, only had a 14hr, worst quality capacity and cost $499 and $9.95 per month?

no way, eh? your old vcr works just fine, right? no one would ever buy that, huh? that company's gonna go outta business fast!

look at the bottom of the page and note the date at the top (http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_20/c3629026.htm)

[HDTiVo]

to those who are upset about the price of today's series 3:

What would have been your reaction a few years ago to a product that would only record sd tv, couldn't record a direct digital stream, had no mrv, no tivo2go, no ethernet or even usb ports, only had a 14hr, worst quality capacity and cost $499 and $9.95 per month?

no way, eh? your old vcr works just fine, right? no one would ever buy that, huh? that company's gonna go outta business fast!

look at the bottom of the page and note the date at the top (http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_20/c3629026.htm)
I'd wait for a 60hr S2. ;)

[bilbo]

a lot has been said about the great tivo user interface

but do this comparison:

comcast motorola hd dvr with two tuners: 120 gb (12-14 hours HD) -- approximately $10 per month

verizon fios "multi-room" dvr with two tuners: 160 gb (15-20 hours HD) -- $20 per month plus an additional $3 per month per TV for the set-top boxes

tivo series 3: 250 gb (25-35 hours HD)

sure comcast and verizon may upgrade their harddrives at somepoint, but are you going to want your harddrive to be practically half-full from one night of primetime television (and you are at the telcos' mercy as to when they will upgrade the equipment you are paying an arm and a leg to rent from them)?

[Stephen Tu]

to those who are upset about the price of today's series 3:

What would have been your reaction a few years ago to a product that would only record sd tv, couldn't record a direct digital stream, had no mrv, no tivo2go, no ethernet or even usb ports, only had a 14hr, worst quality capacity and cost $499 and $9.95 per month?

no way, eh? your old vcr works just fine, right? no one would ever buy that, huh? that company's gonna go outta business fast!


I thought great!, and ordered one as soon as they were available. Because I could see the fundamentally huge advantage of hard disk recording vs. tape based recording. But I ordered a ReplayTV too, which cost the same, planning on keeping the one I liked better (neither available for comparison in a store). I kept the Tivo, but if ReplayTV had been substantially cheaper I probably would have kept it instead.

That's the fundamental difference here. With earlier Tivo hardware intros there was no substantially cheaper comparable competition. But the difference of Tivo vs. VCR is massive IMO compared to difference between Tivo DVR & most cable DVRs. If someone offered me $800 to go back to VCR use for a few years, I definitely refuse. If they give me $800 to use cable HD DVR instead of Tivo, I probably take it. Just that number at which people will balk is going to vary depending on their own perception of just how bad the cable DVRs are.

look at the bottom of the page and note the date at the top (http://www.businessweek.com/1999/99_20/c3629026.htm)

And I hope that link of yours stops the handful of people who are continuing to go around & claim that the 14 hr model cost >=$1000 at introduction. It was the 30 hr, not the 14 hr, that was selling for $999.

[jmoak]

tivo series 3: 250 gb (25-35 hours HD)Awww, pishaw.;)

weaknees has a 100hr hd series 3 (http://www.weaknees.com/series-3-hd-tivo.php) on sale. (It's only 925hrs sd)
:)

[jmoak]

And I hope that link of yours ... Woah, now! $499 was the price in may of '99 for the 14hr and $999 for the 30hr (http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3740), but that's not my link! I found that in about 60 seconds using google.

And btw, some were paying a premium to be the first to have one and some retailers were glad to take their money.;)

from the above linked article:"Five hundred dollars won't be an impediment to the first wave of adopters who will pay almost anything to get the service," said (Gary Arlen, president of Arlen Communications), who expects prices to drop sharply before a national rollout.I paid (after catching the right sales and rebates) $185 for a 14hr in febuary of 2000.

Did I jump at $499? Naaaa. Did I fuss and and claim it was too late? another, Naaaa.

but then again, I'm a patient sorta guy like that.
;)

[Stephen Tu]

I consider the actual link to be yours, not the article/site it points to, obviously. If the link was broken it would be up to you to fix it, no? I guess that's pointless semantics. OK let me be more verbose: "I hope reading the article your link points to stops ..."

$185 was great back at Feb 2000. I remember retail fell to $399, another rebate for DirecTV users, I guess another sale on top gets you there. Whatever. It was worth $200-$300 to me at the time to use Tivo rather than VCR for a year, considering all the time it saved me commercial skipping & VCR programming. But $300 to use Tivo vs. cable DVR (making wild speculation that price could tumble that much in year), eh, I'll wait.

[jmoak]

I consider the actual link to be yours, not the article/site it points to, obviously. ...I was just picking on you there, Steven... Looks like I put the winkie in the wrong place!:o

As far as the $185, I was spurred into buying it after an unfortunate vcr incident (it was physically kicked around the backyard for a while after eating a unreplaceable concert tape from the 80's. Yes, it was harsh, but well deserved:D)

Shelled out $399 for the old 114 at circuit city.
Two weeks later it went on sale at bestbuy for $299, so cc gave me back 115% of the difference.
Then someone here posted a link to the original $100 rebate.

All told, I ended up payin' $185.

I love tellin' that story....
;)

[AdamF]

I live in MA and recently dumped my S2 after buying my HDTV and have a Comcast Motorola 3412 I. I'm looking at the S3 but in the short term do you have any idea how I go about getting the latest software update? I checked that Wiki and I have an older version of the software. Comcast's site talks about the July 2006 update and I definitely don't have those features. Any idea how I go about getting the latest software? Do I just have to call them and talk to someone who has no idea what I'm talking about?

Have you used the cable HD box? Here's some of the joy that my Motorola 6412 from Comcast has brought me in eight months time (in addition to known bugs (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs)).
Occasionally loses audio when using FF/30 second skip. Have to go into previous recordings and play a bit of one of them to get it back.
Will get in a state where the current recording plays, but the status bar doesn't update, can't change channels or switch tuners. Reboot.
Displays "YOUR SCHEDULED RECORDING HAS FINISHED" in a box in the middle of the screen for a good 15 seconds when a recording finishes on the other tuner (can be dismissed with the remote).
Gets confused when trying to get a season pass (sorry, "series recording") for a show on an HD channel when you have an existing recording scheduled for a show of the same name on standard def (it won't record the HD show, but when you go in to do it manually, it wants to edit the series recording).
Can't be programmed over the internet.
Don't touch the untitled "12/31/1989" recordings that randomly appear in your DVR list.
No tickmarks to jump to on playback. If you want to see the last 15 minutes of a two hour movie, hit FF four times and wait.
Loud hard drive. Bright LED channel display that can't be turned off (but can be made to show the time instead).
Guide data often a crap-shoot. TBS falls victim to this quite a bit.
Battery door on the remote is right where you grasp it. Pops off with the brush of a finger.
Occasionally loses the ability to rewind or use the 15 second jump back.
Loses all guide data when unplugged.
12 hours HD recording space. No plans for future expansion options.
I'll be getting a series 3.

[kbohip]

Have you used the cable HD box? Here's some of the joy that my Motorola 6412 from Comcast has brought me in eight months time (in addition to known bugs (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Bugs)).
Occasionally loses audio when using FF/30 second skip. Have to go into previous recordings and play a bit of one of them to get it back.
Will get in a state where the current recording plays, but the status bar doesn't update, can't change channels or switch tuners. Reboot.
Displays "YOUR SCHEDULED RECORDING HAS FINISHED" in a box in the middle of the screen for a good 15 seconds when a recording finishes on the other tuner (can be dismissed with the remote).
Gets confused when trying to get a season pass (sorry, "series recording") for a show on an HD channel when you have an existing recording scheduled for a show of the same name on standard def (it won't record the HD show, but when you go in to do it manually, it wants to edit the series recording).
Can't be programmed over the internet.
Don't touch the untitled "12/31/1989" recordings that randomly appear in your DVR list.
No tickmarks to jump to on playback. If you want to see the last 15 minutes of a two hour movie, hit FF four times and wait.
Loud hard drive. Bright LED channel display that can't be turned off (but can be made to show the time instead).
Guide data often a crap-shoot. TBS falls victim to this quite a bit.
Battery door on the remote is right where you grasp it. Pops off with the brush of a finger.
Occasionally loses the ability to rewind or use the 15 second jump back.
Loses all guide data when unplugged.
12 hours HD recording space. No plans for future expansion options.
I'll be getting a series 3.

Man what a POS! I can't believe it loses all of it's guide data when unplugged. That's just plain pathetic. These reasons are why Tivo is so nice though. To me its not about the features as it is about the reliability. I love knowing when I get home my HR10-250 has recorded what it's supposed to have. Coming from the older Dish Notwork DVR's, that's a huge plus.

[yunlin12]

It's was too easy to try cable DVR at this point- especially when "trying" TiVO comes with a minimum contract and $800 price tag!

Easy to try, hard to like. Have you found a cable co DVR that you would recommend?



And what makes you think there was a focus group??

What do you call this forum?