Abandon TiVo for pre-built MythTV box???

[Phantom Gremlin]

I know I can cobble a "hobbyist" box of some sort or another for HD. Could be MCE, MythTV, or various other alternatives. But who has time for that? I've been running Unix and Linux at home for over 15 years, but I want something already put together and working!

But now that S3 is crippled (e.g. need Cablecards just for clear QAM) why shouldn't I just choose a pre-built MythTV box? For example:

http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=44

That box is more expensive than TiVo, but to me it's not that much about money, it's more about perceived value.

I'm really itching to get SOMETHING for HD. I'm happy with my 4 SD DirecTiVo boxes so don't care about getting encrypted stuff.

Any reason why I shouldn't buy that MythTV box? What does the S3 have that MythTV doesn't?

[AZ_Tivo]

I am going this route as well. Not buying the MythTV box but using my computer (just need more RAM) for it and will use Snapstream with it. S3 will be a no go in our house for two reasons

1. No satellite support

2. The cost.

What were they (Tivo Inc.) thinking!!

[cheer]

I was already considering this. My reasoning: (A) it's quite possible MRV will be unavailable with the HR10-250, and (B) the S3 is too pricey. Now that (B) has been confirmed and (A) is looking uglier, I think it's a done deal.

For less than $100 I can get four ATSC tuners and drop 'em in an old Athlon 1.2ghz box I have sitting around to use as a back end, and my Athlon 64 desktop can become a front end. Should be a blast to do, and I can add all sorts of whiz-bang-y things to it if I choose.

[wmcbrine]

Pros: MRV equiv; no service fee
Cons: No access to encrypted QAM; noisy, hot

[msantti]

I am going this route as well. Not buying the MythTV box but using my computer (just need more RAM) for it and will use Snapstream with it. S3 will be a no go in our house for two reasons

1. No satellite support

2. The cost.

What were they (Tivo Inc.) thinking!!

I guess I could have gotten a DVR from DirecTV and signed up for their service and paid $399 and still not own the freakin box.

What was I thinking!

[bkdtv]

That media center PC won't ever support or record encrypted DTV/HDTV programs from digital cable. It obviously won't have the usability or reliability of the Tivo Series3.

Going forward, more and more channels are moving to encrypted digital, meaning more and more channels you won't be able to view with MythTV.

[mportuesi]

Pros: MRV equiv; no service fee
Cons: No access to encrypted QAM; noisy, hot

More Pros:
You have full control over the unit, including if and when software is updated.

Lots of plug-ins available for applications beyond what a TiVo can provide, including web browser, streaming videos, game emulators, etc.

DVD playback and burning built into unit.

You can repurpose it as a general-purpose PC if you decide to switch to something else in the future.

[ellinj]

QAM configuration is left to the user

Easier said then done.

[cheer]

That media center PC won't ever support or record encrypted DTV/HDTV programs from digital cable. It obviously won't have the usability or reliability of the Tivo Series3.
For cable, mainly. For OTA this is a non-issue.

[rodalpho]

Well, that's not necessarily true. Cable cos are mandated to provide a firewire output, and mythtv can record off that output. It doesn't work very well yet, but they're working on it.

[bkdtv]

Well, that's not necessarily true. Cable cos are mandated to provide a firewire output, and mythtv can record off that output.
Digital cable channels are marked as copy once on most cable systems and cannot be recorded with MyTV using Firewire. In order to record content marked as copy once, the device must be DTCP certified, and you can't get that on the PC.

[Phantom Gremlin]

Easier said then done.

I submitted a question to them about this, because clear QAM is ALL I want. Not OTA. Their reply was:

We do support QAM, but we auto-configure for ATSC.
As we say on the Dragon product page: "Dragon will
auto-configure to record off-the-air (ATSC) HDTV content.
QAM configuration is left to the user." We can definitely
help you perform those QAM configuration steps.

So maybe it will work and maybe it won't.

[rodalpho]

The DTCP spec does allow for 5c software implementations, it says "suitable for implementation on PCs". It's just that nobody has done it yet. Probably because they wouldn't approve it, I'd guess... I'm not as clued in as most of you AVSforum guys.

Anyway, eventually desktop computers or DSPs will be fast enough to encode HD in realtime off component, it's just a matter of time.

[cheer]

I submitted a question to them about this, because clear QAM is ALL I want. Not OTA. Their reply was:

We do support QAM, but we auto-configure for ATSC.
As we say on the Dragon product page: "Dragon will
auto-configure to record off-the-air (ATSC) HDTV content.
QAM configuration is left to the user." We can definitely
help you perform those QAM configuration steps.

So maybe it will work and maybe it won't.
I don't know much about that specific product/bundle, but MythTV will absolutely record unencrypted QAM, given the right tuner card. (Most popular seems to be the Dvico Fusion HDTV Lite or Gold, but I haven't investigated all the hardware possibilities as QAM doesn't interest me.)

[eisenb11]

I hate to burst your cookie, but any of those HTPC DVRs will *never* support encrypted QAM... which makes it a bad deal for a lot of us.

When cable card support *is* added to PCs it won't be as an upgrade. The entire PC is cert'ed for it so you have to buy a new everything to go with it.

On top of that, you wont get the ease of use and reliability of a dedicated hardware device out of those things.

I love PCs. I make my living programming for them... but the S3 does what it does and it does it well, which is why I bought one.

Not being able to record HBO HD on a HTPC DVR is a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.

[Phantom Gremlin]

I hate to burst your cookie, but any of those HTPC DVRs will *never* support encrypted QAM... which makes it a bad deal for a lot of us.
But I have 4 SD DirecTiVos so I don't care so much about encrypted QAM. I mostly want HD network TV, which I can't get right now from DirecTV.

On top of that, you wont get the ease of use and reliability of a dedicated hardware device out of those things.
I don't know how reliable MythTV is, but I can always use the source. I've hacked software for over 30 years, it doesn't scare me!

Not being able to record HBO HD on a HTPC DVR is a deal breaker as far as I'm concerned.
I hear what you're saying but
a) I've heard that many HBO HD programs aren't that high quality
b) The TiVo will probably set various "don't copy" flags on even analog output of HBO HD so it'll be a little harder for you to even copy down-rez HBO to a DVD. My R10 will probably always have the ability for me to save crappy SD HBO to DVD without playing games fighting things like CGMS or the broadcast flag.

[eisenb11]

But I have 4 SD DirecTiVos so I don't care so much about encrypted QAM. I mostly want HD network TV, which I can't get right now from DirecTV.


I don't know how reliable MythTV is, but I can always use the source. I've hacked software for over 30 years, it doesn't scare me!


I hear what you're saying but
a) I've heard that many HBO HD programs aren't that high quality
b) The TiVo will probably set various "don't copy" flags on even analog output of HBO HD so it'll be a little harder for you to even copy down-rez HBO to a DVD. My R10 will probably always have the ability for me to save crappy SD HBO to DVD without playing games fighting things like CGMS or the broadcast flag.

Some points:

If you're after HD network stuff is the HTPC the way to go? The listing said it had 2 HD tuners, but I generally associate that with ATSC. If you're like me, good luck getting decent reception on that stuff. I know there are QAM PCI cards out there, but I hear they're a huge pain in the butt.

As for changing source that sorta rules out the ease of use part. I'm a programmer as well and dealing with other peoples' source is no fun... open source stuff generally appears to be a larger mess to work with in some cases...

HBO HD does leave some stuff to be desired, but it's because the darn MSOs compress the crap out of their HD feeds. Too much compression is bad, but it's still better than analog HD in my book.

The no copy stuff is supposed to be supported in any HDCP compliant device. If you're using any software that ignores the flag that's a big no-no. If I remember correctly, isn't HDCP also part of the ATSC specification? So if some day no-copy is turned on for OTA stuff you're in just as much trouble...

Edit: (forgot to add something)

The final killer... CableLabs has very stringent requirements for using their card. I don't think they'd like the idea of sending a raw data stream over an unprotected digital output (firewire).

[Human!]

Hi! I run mythic.tv and thought I'd respond to a couple of things I saw here about Dragon. If anyone has any other questions, please let me know!
Cons: No access to encrypted QAM; noisy, hot
True on the encrypted QAM - MythTV doesn't decrypt encrypted digital cable streams. It'll do unencrypted QAM, though.

However, Dragon in particular is cool and quiet and was designed specifically to be that way. It's so much quieter than a series 2 Tivo that when the two are in the same room, all you can hear is the Tivo. Check out the Dragon system specs (which I can't link to because the forum is preventing me) and you'll see why that is.

[Human!]

I submitted a question to them about this, because clear QAM is ALL I want. Not OTA. Their reply was:
That was me :)
So maybe it will work and maybe it won't.
It's not to our benefit to trick people into thinking something will work if it won't :) Clear QAM will work. Depending on the cable provider, it's either easy (tell the card to do QAM and do a channel scan) or hard (perform some work to get the channel data that your cable company is refusing to provide over the cable). According to the wiki, it looks like the channel scanning method is the default method in MythTV 0.20. (Again, I can't link to it because the forum prevents me.)

[Human!]

The listing said it had 2 HD tuners, but I generally associate that with ATSC. If you're like me, good luck getting decent reception on that stuff. I know there are QAM PCI cards out there, but I hear they're a huge pain in the butt.
The card we use in Dragon does both QAM and ATSC. Some of the cheaper cards may not do both.