VIP offer and DirecTivo

[colorofthesoul]

If anyone has any luck taking advantage of the VIP lifetime switch from a Series1 DirecTivo to a series 3 please let me know. Tivo says it's a no go and I wasn't in the mood to argue with them today, but the lifetime was purchased from Tivo when I got my box. It's not my fault they handed all the billing over to DirecTv after I bought my box

[Dan203]

It's not your fault, but it is your problem. TiVo has absolutely no way of deactivating the service on your old DirecTiVo, and as such can't transfer that service to another unit even if they wanted to.

Dan

[Genkitty]

Grah. This makes me want to cry a little. We early adopted a S1 DirecTiVo with lifetime, and when I heard about the lifetime swap to an S3 we were greatly looking forward to it. Did the research today to determine that Comcast offers a roughly equivilant package, blah blah blah... and then I see this.

Is there no way to jump into the 21st century or will we be stuck with S1 forever if we want to keep lifetime benefits?

[bidger]

If you have Lifetime through D* it's on your account, not your box.

I upgraded to a S2 D-TiVo and the HR10-250 and it didn't cost $1000 like it will for SA TiVo users looking to buy a S3.

[eelton]

I'm not surprised that TiVo won't extend the S3 lifetime offer to DirecTiVo owners, but it really might be worth it to them:

(a) It's not a free transfer. After all, the $199 was the original cost of a lifetime subscription. (Actually, I paid $149 on my original TiVo because of a $50 off promotion--a standalone model I sold when I switched to DirecTV.)

(b) TiVo collects more money by limiting the offer to the first few months of sales, charging full MSRP.

(c) There's something to be said to rewarding and maintaining the loyalty of us TiVo devotees and early adopters.


All in all, I can't believe they would take much of a financial hit by letting DirecTV people buy $199 lifetime subscriptions for the S3. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[bschott]

I must say that I spent about 85 minutes last night arguing with the lame Tivo "phone" reps over this issue. Try as they might, they were throwing everything they could @ at me to try and convince me that they would not upgrade my Tivo (series 1 Sony SAT-T60) w/lifetime.

If you read the fine print on the "VIP" website; no where does it state that DirecTV owners are excluded. The inclusion is Series 1 and Series 2 lifetime members -- of which I feel that I qualify.

It’s not my fault that they state that they do not see me purchasing lifetime membership many years ago because of some tie-in with DIRECTV, As far as I'm concerned I logged into Tivo's website with my unit serial number and paid them for the service, not DIRECTV. Regardless that was many years ago so it shouldn’t matter anyhow.

To be honest since we moved two years ago, I've been off of DIRECTV because of poor reception, I've succumbed to using Comcast’s lame cable service with DVR (mediocre) and HDTV (I like). I've been waiting for this Tivo for quite some time now (as we all have -- I'm sure). For 799.00 which I'm willing to pay, the least they can do is throw all of us lifetime members (regardless of unit) a bone.....

Either way, I'm not through. I will call again and again and again until they prove their point or change that website or give me a lifetime like I deserve.

[microkitty]

If you read the fine print on the "VIP" website; no where does it state that DirecTV owners are excluded. The inclusion is Series 1 and Series 2 lifetime members -- of which I feel that I qualify.

I totally agree. TiVo acknowledges that the S3 is for a limited audience, and their deal with DTV is dead, so why the heck they can't just do thie right thing and eat the $199 revenue loss is beyond me. Who knows -- maybe DTV prevented them from doing this in their divorce? If so, TiVo needs a better lawyer.

Tom

[MarkDay]

TiVo acknowledges that the S3 is for a limited audience, and their deal with DTV is dead, so why the heck they can't just do thie right thing and eat the $199 revenue loss is beyond me.

The worst part is that this isn't a revenue loss for Tivo, this is a potential revenue *gain*. If they would extend the offer to the early adopters that paid the lifetime subscription to Tivo (not to DirecTV), they get to put the new $199 into their pocket. In addition the people coming back from satellite would likely be adding new Tivos to their household and these would become new revenue streams at $6.95 a month.

I purchased the original Series 1 Tivo *very* early on. After paying top dollar for this unit, I purchased the first DirecTivo model the day it came out (and transferred my lifetime under the grandfather clause). I then bought the HR10-250 very early in its product life-cycle. Because I've been ahead of the curve, I've introduced these new technologies to many of my friends and family, resulting in many sales of Tivo units (I'm sure that many of the members here have been responsible for similar sales). Why on earth Tivo would not want to give an incentive/reward to customers that clearly have issues keeping themselves from spending ridiculous sums of money on new Tivo products is beyond me. At the very least they could have culled their mailing list properly so that they don't send 'VIP' offers to loyal customers and then tell them that they don't qualify (due to business agreements totally beyond our control, made subsequent to our purchases from Tivo). I would hope that someone in marketing would recognize just how infuriating this practice is.

It would be a win-win situation if only I had the VIP 'privilege' of sending another $1K Tivo's way. I could finally get locals in HD, and start taking advantage of at least some of the features that have developed since I've left the SA fold for the dark side. Tivo would have my money, and be in line for future purchases I make. In this case, there seems to be plenty of justification for doing the 'right thing' on a purely economic basis.

[jsl10]

I also bought a DirecTivo Sony S1 a LONG time ago. My lifetime fee went to Tivo NOT DirecTV. For those that say there is no way that Tivo can do it because the lifetime records are now in the hands of DirecTV... sorry but that is bull (not the fact about DirecTV but that there is no way Tivo can do it!). All Tivo has to do is set whatever bit would be in their record for a new S3 service that says lifetime is in effect. And the heck with DirecTV and their records! Come on Tivo, give your first customers a break!

[smak]

It would be a win-win situation if only I had the VIP 'privilege' of sending another $1K Tivo's way. I could finally get locals in HD, and start taking advantage of at least some of the features that have developed since I've left the SA fold for the dark side. Tivo would have my money, and be in line for future purchases I make. In this case, there seems to be plenty of justification for doing the 'right thing' on a purely economic basis.

I agree with this, because Tivo is actually making money on the S3!

They did away with lifetime because it was too costly for them to give you lifetime use of the box for $300 AND lose money on each box too.

A 1 month deal would be great for the lifetime D* people.

-smak-

[megazone]

If you read the fine print on the "VIP" website; no where does it state that DirecTV owners are excluded. The inclusion is Series 1 and Series 2 lifetime members -- of which I feel that I qualify.Except that you don't. The DirecTV units are NOT Series1 NOR Series2. They have never been called that by TiVo, or DirecTV. Users call them that for short, but those names are officially standalone only. So the website is already clear if you use the terms correctly.

Plus you no longer have a Product Lifetime to transfer. They simply do not exist anymore. You may have purchased one a long time ago, but, as they had the right to do under the agreement, they were eliminated. All Product Lifetime subscriptions on DirecTiVo units were converted to Account Lifetime by DirecTV.

So you're doubly disqusalified. First you never owned a required box, second you don't have a subscription eligible to transfer.

Don't be a jerk, that's life.

Sure, it could be good for TiVo to offer some incentive for DirecTV, even Dish, users to jump on the S3 bandwagon. Competitive tradeins aren't a new thing. But the fact is that right now the offer doesn't extend to you. So harrassing them is just being a jerk.

[jsl10]

Don't be a jerk, that's life.

Sure, it could be good for TiVo to offer some incentive for DirecTV, even Dish, users to jump on the S3 bandwagon. Competitive tradeins aren't a new thing. But the fact is that right now the offer doesn't extend to you. So harrassing them is just being a jerk.

You know, the DirecTivo folks might not be so insistent on this deal if the deal wasn't worded (by Tivo and everyone here) to "our most loyal VIP customers". Well you know what... when I ordered my lifetime FROM Tivo years ago and stayed a Tivo customer all these years and talked up Tivo to everyone I could all these years I thought I WAS being a loyal customer as well!!! Now folks that try to get Tivo to recognize us as well are called jerks. Nice. Well, I just hope Tivo takes your advise and does open up an offer to us as well.

[szohn]

I guess, I'm another jerk too, for giving a company I've given thousands of dollars to, and years of word of mouth advertising, a hard time, based on the fact they can't explain why the $200 I spent on a Lifetime product subcription (which is what i paid for) doesn't qualify.

They may have had a legal ability to change the terms of the agreement, but it doesn't make it "right". I'm sure there aren't a whole lot of us who are in the situation, but the only way tivo knows they are losing some of their "most loyal VIP customers", is voice it to them.

In this case, I'm happy to be a jerk too.

[tunnelengineer]

Here, this may help:
http://www.scottbrand.com/us/offers/coupon/index.asp

Your agreement was with directv, not Tivo for their lifetime service.

[rainwater]

Your agreement was with directv, not Tivo for their lifetime service.

Actually, it was with tivo originally.

[Dan203]

I'm pretty sure that people who had lifetime subs on DirecTiVo units were informed of the transition from TiVo to DirecTV at the time the deal was struck. If you had a problem with the switchover then that would have been the time to complain. Now now, 4 years later, when it finally became an actual problem for you.

Dan

[MarkDay]

I'm pretty sure that people who had lifetime subs on DirecTiVo units were informed of the transition from TiVo to DirecTV at the time the deal was struck. If you had a problem with the switchover then that would have been the time to complain. Now now, 4 years later, when it finally became an actual problem for you.


That's an interesting perspective. What should my complaint have been? "Tivo, please don't change your business arrangement with DirecTV, because I'm concerned that when you release a HDTV box at some point in the future, you may decide not to treat me as well as your SA box customers?"

Clearly, the DTivo owners had no influence over the business agreements between the two companies, and also no basis for a complaint, since we were not privy to any information on how we might be treated differently (Although, even then having my account more directly tied to DirecTV didn't leave me with a warm fuzzy).

[jsl10]

That's an interesting perspective. What should my complaint have been? "Tivo, please don't change your business arrangement with DirecTV, because I'm concerned that when you release a HDTV box at some point in the future, you may decide not to treat me as well as your SA box customers?"

Clearly, the DTivo owners had no influence over the business agreements between the two companies, and also no basis for a complaint, since we were not privy to any information on how we might be treated differently (Although, even then having my account more directly tied to DirecTV didn't leave me with a warm fuzzy).

I agree. The previous poster saying we should of complained at the time! How ridiculous. There are always those on forums that try to minimize an issue when a set of people are upset about something that does not effect them. Some people just don't have any empathy!

[smak]

Tivo has an ongoing relationship and contract with DirecTV.

You really think that part of this deal would allow Tivo to give DirecTV customers incentives to leave Directv?

I don't think so!

-smak-

[generalpatton71]

I think if Tivo had or has a way to confirm you have paid for lifetime on a Tivo Series 1 or early D* Tivo. Then they should also offer this window to D* users. Thats only if they have a way of confirming the information. Otherwise it could be a mess!

[rainwater]

I think if Tivo had or has a way to confirm you have paid for lifetime on a Tivo Series 1 or early D* Tivo. Then they should also offer this window to D* users. Thats only if they have a way of confirming the information. Otherwise it could be a mess!

The problem is part of the offer gives you a year of service on your old box. In no way would this be possible for DirecTv customers.

[generalpatton71]

So it's not like tive can't just tell them that and offer the lifetime service on the S3 only.

[jsl10]

So it's not like tive can't just tell them that and offer the lifetime service on the S3 only.

I know! People keep saying Tivo can't do this or can't do that. Give me a break. Tivo could EASILY give the old DirecTivo folks a deal of some kind to show that we are also thought of as loyal Tivo customers. If I make the jump to S3 and cable away form DirecTV I won't even want to keep my old Sony S1 anymore!

[smak]

So Tivo calls up Directv and says, is user x a lifetime member, because we want to give them an offer to leave you???

Maybe it says it on the bill, so you can send them a copy of your bill.

That's not a very nice thing for a small company to do to one of their biggest partners don't ya think?

I'm sure the 3 million Directv Tivo users would love Tivo to piss Directv off so they can force them to get new non Tivo pvr's...

-smak-

[tunnelengineer]

good call smak. Some of these people just don't get it.

[bschott]

QUOTE=megazone]The DirecTV units are NOT Series1 NOR Series2. They have never been called that by TiVo, or DirecTV.

Says you. What's your qualifications. You a shill for the company -- perhaps getting paid to provide a lousy response for someone who happens to have strong negative feelings towards Tivo?

Plus you no longer have a Product Lifetime to transfer. They simply do not exist anymore. You may have purchased one a long time ago, but, as they had the right to do under the agreement, they were eliminated. All Product Lifetime subscriptions on DirecTiVo units were converted to Account Lifetime by DirecTV.

Again, this makes no never mind to me. Your simply re-quoting Tivo. Thus confirming to me that you are a shill for the company.

So you're doubly disqusalified. First you never owned a required box, second you don't have a subscription eligible to transfer.

Don't be a jerk, that's life.

The world is full of jerks, so get used to it. No need for name calling here -- shill.

Sure, it could be good for TiVo to offer some incentive for DirecTV, even Dish, users to jump on the S3 bandwagon. Competitive tradeins aren't a new thing. But the fact is that right now the offer doesn't extend to you. So harrassing them is just being a jerk.

Again, I'm calling you out as a shill here. It’s my right as an American consumer to harass any company I feel like being a pain in the arse to. As part of the middle class who basically supports the entire company, any of us here have this right. Accept this and keep your company loving responses to yourself.

[/QUOTE]

[andyf]

Everything Megazone says is 100% accurate, shill or not.

[bschott]

Everything Megazone says is 100% accurate, shill or not.

Perhaps, perhaps not. As far as I can tell there's no information anywhere on Tivo's site specifically excluding or including my SAT-T60 as a Series 1 Tivo. Therefore if the company whishes to exclude me, then they should clearly state so by either updating their policies and providing a definition of what they consider a series 1 or series 2 "box" or by updating the vip web page to specifically define what they deem appropriate.

We can argue this to the hilt, but as far as I'm concerned, I have a piece of hardware that says Tivo on it. So to me, that means it's tied back to Tivo as a company since they provided a directory service to me for my Sony manufactured hardware with "TIVO" intelligence inside of it.

Perhaps the company will never see my point, but this still leads me back to my original complaint: that they should define who's who and what's what.

In the end, I agree with other members here in that they are excluding quite a few of us who have invested in their equipment. It would behoove them to include us because it apears that there's probably quite a few here who would have no problem shelling out the 799 for a new unit (including myself).

At the moment, I'm considering just keeping the lame Motorola DVR from Comcast and saving my money.

[MarkDay]

So Tivo calls up Directv and says, is user x a lifetime member, because we want to give them an offer to leave you???


If Tivo has to call up DirecTV to ask them who originally paid *Tivo* for lifetime service on the DTivo boxes, there area few lessons about databases and data retention I could teach them. Realistically there is no excuse for Tivo to not already have this information.


I'm sure the 3 million Directv Tivo users would love Tivo to piss Directv off so they can force them to get new non Tivo pvr's...


Uhhh... Isn't the writing already on the wall that DirecTV is going it's own way with PVR? Whether Tivo (the company) pisses off DirecTV or not is almost irrelevant to whether DirecTV will continue to support existing PVRs. They (DirecTV) will base this decision almost purely on whether they believe that they will make more or less money by doing so. It doesn't take a marketing genius to realize that ending support of DTivo boxes would likely result in less revenue as loyal Tivo users jump ship from satellite back to cable. An awful lot of us jumped to satellite when it was technically superior to cable, but now HDTV, dual tuner support and competition has made cable more competitive with satellite. I'm sure that both DirecTV and cable companies are well aware that the barrier to switching back is much lower than it used to be, and they don't want to give customers any reason (like discontinuing Tivo support) to change back.

It would be easy for Tivo to give the small number of long time, loyal customers the 'VIP' offer. I really don't believe that DirecTV would notice or do anything significant in response. I guess I'm mostly disappointed because in the old days Tivo was strong on customer service, and would just do the right thing. I was one of the original lifetime customers affected by the grandfather transfer clause, and I remember very well how Tivo was convinced (largely in this forum) that their advertising materials were misleading, and their customer support reps weren't properly trained. They did the right thing for their early adopters, even though it cost them money in the short term (but paid off in spades in good will in the long term). This is an example of a situation where I believe the old Tivo corporate culture would have understood the customer perspective, and done the right thing. I've been away from this forum and from really following the Tivo story recently, and it's disappointing that they're not stepping up the way they used to.

[bschott]

I remember very well how Tivo was convinced (largely in this forum) that their advertising materials were misleading, and their customer support reps weren't properly trained. They did the right thing for their early adopters, even though it cost them money in the short term (but paid off in spades in good will in the long term). This is an example of a situation where I believe the old Tivo corporate culture would have understood the customer perspective, and done the right thing. I've been away from this forum and from really following the Tivo story recently, and it's disappointing that they're not stepping up the way they used to.


here here... This is exactly what I'm basing all of my anger on. At one point many years ago as MarkDay has elaborated on you felt proud using and recommending Tivo products. Now it appears that the corporate machine has taking over and dam the little guy no matter what.

[bschott]

I thought I'd post a quick post. Today I decided to call Tivo again on this "VIP" issue and apparently I reached the right operator. We had a completely pleasant discussion about upgrading my Sony SAT-T60 DVR to a new Series 3. At first he seemed to be bellowing out some corporate nonsense about their grandfather clause; however he was not aware of the "VIP" program, so I asked if he would view the VIP website and let me know his thoughts.

As per his wording, my system qualifies for the VIP upgrade. I expressed that I was concerned because I had called a few days ago and was told that I could not upgrade. "Joe" completely reassured me that my unit qualifies as per the website and went as far as to create a case and document our discussion. He stated that after I receive the unit to call in and reference this case so that I can transfer the lifetime properly.

My opinion is that it appears that the operators themselves are not aware of the VIP program in masse, so perhaps it would require several calls to get you to a human being who is actually level headed.

[MickeS]

My opinion is that it appears that the operators themselves are not aware of the VIP program in masse, so perhaps it would require several calls to get you to a human being who is actually level headed.

Or someone who is ignorant about the whole thing, as the one you got.

As far as I can tell there's no information anywhere on Tivo's site specifically excluding or including my SAT-T60 as a Series 1 Tivo.

Except that the product you own isn't named Series 1?

[bschott]

Regardless of what you may say DirecTV DVR's are Still "TIVO" DVR's. Perhaps you are a Tivo employee with 1st hand knowledge to the contrary?

I don’t believe that the original Series 1's were labled Series 1 when sold to the public. But rather I belive that the first was a Philips 14hr HDR112 Standalone, followed by the HDR212. Within that "FAMILY" of TIVO's was the Sony SAT-T60. So no, it's not labeled Series 1 like any other Series 1, but it's within the same generation.

Again, if you read the website, it's telling you that Series 1 and Series 2 DVR's are upgradeable. Can you pull out any document which is clearly defining Series1 and Series2 units?


Hindsdale seens to have it broken down pretty well:

Series 1 Models

Philips 14hr HDR112 Standalone Single 13.6GB A drive

Philips 20hr HDR212 Standalone Single 22GB A drive

Philips 30hr HDR312 Standalone

Model #HDR312 Dual 13.6GB A + 13.6GB B drive *

Model #HDR31201 Single 30GB A drive *

Model #HDR31202 Single 30GB A drive *

#HDR312XX and higher Single 30GB A drive *

Philips 60hr HDR612 Standalone Dual 30GB A + 30GB B drive | or | Dual 40GB A + 20GB B drive

Philips 35hr DSR6000 DirecTiVo

# 4702XXXX and lower Dual 30GB A + 15GB B drive*

Serial #4703XXX Dual 30GB A + 15GB B drive*

Serial #4704XXX Single 40GB A drive*

# 4705XXXX and higher Single 40GB A drive*



Sony 30hr SVR2000 Standalone Single 30GB or 40GB A drive

Sony 35hr Sat-T60 DirecTiVo

# 800XXXX and lower Dual 30GB A + 15GB B drive*

Serial #801XXXX Single 40GB A drive*

# 802XXXX and higher Single 40GB A drive*



Hughes 35hr GXCEBOT DirecTiVo Single 40GB A drive

Since none of the Series 1 models are listed as "Tivo" manufactured models like some of the Series2 models, does this mean that the VIP program does not apply to these as well? What about all of the Series 2 models that are NOT Tivo brand specific?

Heres the rest of the list in case your confused:

Series 2 Standalone Models

TiVo or ATT 40hr TCD130040 Stdalone Single 40GB A drive

TiVo or ATT 40hr TCD230040 Stdalone Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

TiVo 40hr TCD240040 Standalone Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

TiVo 40hr TCD24004A Standalone Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

TiVo 40hr TCD540040 Standalone Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)** +

TiVo 60hr TCD140060 Standalone Single 60GB A drive

TiVo 80hr TCD240080 Standalone Single 80GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

TiVo 80hr TCD24008A Standalone Single 80GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

TiVo 80hr TCD540080 Standalone Single 80GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)** +

TiVo 140hr TCD240140 Standalone Single 120GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

TiVo 140hr TCD540140 Standalone Single 120GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**+

Humax 80hr T800 Standalone Single 80GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)** +

Humax 250hr T2500 Standalone Single 250GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**+

Sony 80hr SVR3000 Standalone Single 80GB A drive

Toshiba SD-H400 Standalone Single 80GB A drive (combination DVD recorder - second drive may not be advisable )

Pioneer DVR-57h DVD/Stdalone Single 120GB A drive (combination DVD recorder- second drive may not be advisable)++

Pioneer DVR-810H DVD/Stdalone Single 80GB A drive (combination DVD recorder - second drive may not be advisable)++



Series 2 DirecTiVo Models

Hughes 35hr HDVR2 DirecTiVo Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

Hughes 35hr SD-DVR40 DirecTiVo Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

Hughes 100hr SD-DVR120 DirecTiVo Single 120GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

Philips 35hr DSR7000 DirecTiVo Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

Philips 35hr DSR704 DirecTiVo Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

Philips 70hr DSR708 DirecTiVo Single 80GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

RCA 35hr DVR39 DirecTiVo Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

RCA 35hr DVR40 DirecTiVo Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

RCA 70hr DVR80 DirecTiVo Single 80GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

DirecTV DVR R10 DirecTiVo Single 80GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

Samsung 35hr S4040R DirecTiVo Single 40GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

Samsung 100hr S4120R DirecTiVo Single 120GB A drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**

DirecTV HR10-250 HD DirecTiVo Single 250GB A Drive (requires bracket for second drive - see note below)**+

[smak]

Series 2 on directv is just what we people called it. I don't think Tivo or DirecTV ever called it that.

Do you have any document that doesn't come from some dude on the internet (although a very helpful dude)

-smak-

[szohn]

Bschott,

After you get your S3 and transfer your lifetime, can you share your case number so other can reference it when we call, it should ease the frustration on both sides.

Thanks for following up again.

[jsl10]

That's a great idea szohn. If they honer it for one they will do others. And since there seems to be a lot of not knowing what do do (both here and with Tivo!) and nothing posted to say one way or the other the case number will really help.

[megazone]

This page lays out which boxes TiVo considers a Series1 or Series2: http://customersupport.tivo.com/userGuides.asp

Note, no DirecTiVos.

I'd really like to know if the transfer works. Sounds more like it was just a confused CSR. When they go to do the transfer they'd find there isn't a lifetime record to transfer in the system.

[szohn]

So, are the DVD-Tivo owners excluded too? I know some of them were able to buy a lifetime subscription.

When I spoke with a CSR rep last tuesday, she had no problem finding my "Lifetime product subscription" (her words exactly), but she was unaware of the vip program at the time.

It's going to come down to the decision , do they honor what what we paid for, or are they bound by the transfer to DTV. (Some of us paid TIVO and not DTV for the lifetime product subcription before the DTV/Tivo partnership). Tivo has already shown there are exceptions to the terms of the VIP page, otherwise retail buyers wouldn't be eligable which we know they are.

If they didn't want to deal with these kinds of questions they should have called it the Series1-Series2 transfer program and not the VIP program for loyal customers. I'm as loyal a tivo owner as anyone else here, having purchased my first tivo the week the first 30 hour came out (before they were available in retail stores). I've been part of 2 beta tests, have conviced dozens of people to purchase them.

Just my 2cents, probably worth about half that.

[megazone]

So, are the DVD-Tivo owners excluded too?No, the DVD units are officially Series2 boxes and the TiVo service subscription is with TiVo, not Pioneer, etc. DirecTiVos are the only excluded boxes.

[classicsat]

That would be the Lifetime Plus sub is transferrable with the VIP program, Lifetime Basic (which isn't Lifetime to TiVo), is not transferrable to the S3.

[tunnelengineer]

I thought I'd post a quick post. Today I decided to call Tivo again on this "VIP" issue and apparently I reached the right operator. We had a completely pleasant discussion about upgrading my Sony SAT-T60 DVR to a new Series 3. At first he seemed to be bellowing out some corporate nonsense about their grandfather clause; however he was not aware of the "VIP" program, so I asked if he would view the VIP website and let me know his thoughts.

As per his wording, my system qualifies for the VIP upgrade. I expressed that I was concerned because I had called a few days ago and was told that I could not upgrade. "Joe" completely reassured me that my unit qualifies as per the website and went as far as to create a case and document our discussion. He stated that after I receive the unit to call in and reference this case so that I can transfer the lifetime properly.

My opinion is that it appears that the operators themselves are not aware of the VIP program in masse, so perhaps it would require several calls to get you to a human being who is actually level headed.

So "level headed" to you must mean "clueless" to everyone else. got it.

[bschott]

Here's how things have progressed so far. NOTHING. Megazone was right. I received my S3 tonight and called the 800 number on the sheet and spoke to several VIP CSR's who and 1 supervisor who totally shot me down. I made no headway with the supervisor (who was skilled at dealing with irate folks). In the end, I wanted them to provide a definition of what they consider a Series1/2 vs a DirecTV Tivo. Megazone has posted a link to which would have eliminated a whole lot of fray for myself (and perhps other customers).

I decided to take another route in purchasing a Series1 tivo from ebay and transferring the license.

[bocktar]

I never bought a lifetime subscription for my Sony SAT-T60 back in 2001 when I broke the oppresive bonds of Cable and joined D*, and hence I am not in a position to expect anything from TiVo at all in terms of their VIP upgrade/transfer offer.

Now, with that said, I along with the MANY "DirecTV DVR with TiVo" and "DirecTV High Definition DVR with TiVo" customers out there have comprised a significant portion of TiVo's install base for the past five to six years, every month contributing to their bottom line (despite our recently acquired bastard child status) through our monthly DVR fees.

In that time, the HR10-250 helped secure my fierce loyalty to TiVo (so fierce that I'm fighting all instincts and going back to cable with my S3 -- a decision made admittedly easier by D* antics as of late), and have "pushed the party line" to the tune of seven others putting at least one TiVo or "Device with TiVo" in their home. I'm sure I'm not alone in these characteristics.

I appreciate that TiVo is doing something that they don't have to with their VIP program, and it is great for the people that can take advantage of it. I also think it's crazy that they're not extending some kind of offer (it doesn't have to be as lucrative) to all D* w/ TiVo customers as additional motivation to follow the S3 to Cable. Unless something changes in a big way many of these subscribers will ultimately be lost to them.

Again, I'm not in a position to gain anything ... I already have my S3, and I'd probably have bought it at $1600 if that was the price ... but it seems pretty shortsighted to ignore the D* user base entirely.

I guess it's possible that they may have something in their agreement with D* to leave us alone. They may also be wisely playing nice with D* in hopes that separation from NewsCorp could kindle a new relationship. It's also possible that they're letting us early adopters work out the kinks before they push people to change their setups ... which I can very much appreciate.

Going back to Cable is hard for a D* user like me that swore I'd NEVER go back, even with D*'s crappy decisions, poor HD rollout, and compromised PQ. I feel like I'm following TiVo into bed and battle with the enemy. I'm prepared for unending tech visits, agonizing support calls with cable drones, quoting FCC regulations, and staring down supervisors in their own offices if necessary.

I know some D* refugees feel that they're not getting something they deserve. I think most would be happy with a little love from TiVo.

[TivoNM]

OK so here is the big point being missed. All the billing that is/was done with the dtv tivo's goes through dtv. Tivo has no way of altering anything with your account, phone number, address, service addition or transfer. If you have a dtv tivo and a sa tivo, guess what there are 2 different accounts that come up.

I'm sure that if there was something that tivo could do to transfer your PLS from you dtv tivo(s) they would. However since they can't change anything on dtv tivo accounts, that isn't possible. Sure they could just give dtv tivo PLS owners lifetime, but then that customer would have PLS on 2 different boxes. There would not be an actual transfer involved. Yes you would be paying any additional 199 to transfer the PLS but that last cost of PLS was 299....any one get my point here.

So in short, for the same reasons your dtv tivo's can't connect via internet, use MRV, tivo togo, music and photos...etc, is the same reason you can't transfer that service. Yes the unit has tivo software but you received it 3rd party through dtv. There is no official tie, why don't you contact dtv and ask them to work with tivo to allow transfer of PLS. Will most likely never happen and unfortunately that customer would be laughed at., but if you want it, try the end that holds the smoking gun. DTV is the only way to access to change your account and transfer service.

Other than that sell your dtv tivo with lifetime on ebay, yes they are still very wanted, and get a series 3 or if you still have dtv and want ave satellite dual tuning find a deal with a dtv hd tivo. Not cheap but can be found.

[Sirshagg]

I thought I'd post a quick post. Today I decided to call Tivo again on this "VIP" issue and apparently I reached the right operator. We had a completely pleasant discussion about upgrading my Sony SAT-T60 DVR to a new Series 3. At first he seemed to be bellowing out some corporate nonsense about their grandfather clause; however he was not aware of the "VIP" program, so I asked if he would view the VIP website and let me know his thoughts.

As per his wording, my system qualifies for the VIP upgrade. I expressed that I was concerned because I had called a few days ago and was told that I could not upgrade. "Joe" completely reassured me that my unit qualifies as per the website and went as far as to create a case and document our discussion. He stated that after I receive the unit to call in and reference this case so that I can transfer the lifetime properly.

My opinion is that it appears that the operators themselves are not aware of the VIP program in masse, so perhaps it would require several calls to get you to a human being who is actually level headed.

Something tells me all the Joe's are going to get "mentored (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4402469&highlight=mentored#post4402469)".

[jsl10]

....any one get my point here.

No I actually don't!


...but you received it 3rd party through dtv. There is no official tie,

There have been plenty of posts of people saying Tivo has nothing to do with it. You would feel different if your original check for lifetime was to TIVO!!! NOT DirecTV!!! I don't understand why people keep saying that we paid DirecTV. Things were different then and it changed by choices Tivo made NOT the person who paid for the lifetime. It was Tivo that transfered billing, etc. to DirecTV. Tivo the company gained $$$ from me by taking my check for lifetime service. Can you not see that people that wrote Tivo a check for Lifetime are now told that their lifetime isn't as good as other lifetimes? And please... not one more posts saying Tivo can't do this or that because DirecTV has the account. I don't give a rats you know what how it is classified but Tivo CAN give a lifetime account for more money to folks that purchased the original Lifetime account. And as to having two different lifetime accounts then (one S3 and one DirecTV)... who cares!!! There is no cosmic rule that is being broken. The universe will not cease to exist or anything else! Its simply process... and Tivo has made the choice to piss off a bunch of loyal customers. And that is damn shame! I was going to get an S3 but will not if I have to start over and pay a monthly fee. I'm now not only pissed at Tivo, but I'm also pissed at DirecTV. Maybe Dish's PVR would be acceptable now... ya right! Those will be turned off soon enough now. I'm not sure what to do. All I know is my family will be very upset to leave Tivo!

[tunnelengineer]

No I actually don't!




There have been plenty of posts of people saying Tivo has nothing to do with it. You would feel different if your original check for lifetime was to TIVO!!! NOT DirecTV!!! I don't understand why people keep saying that we paid DirecTV. Things were different then and it changed by choices Tivo made NOT the person who paid for the lifetime. It was Tivo that transfered billing, etc. to DirecTV. Tivo the company gained $$$ from me by taking my check for lifetime service. Can you not see that people that wrote Tivo a check for Lifetime are now told that their lifetime isn't as good as other lifetimes? And please... not one more posts saying Tivo can't do this or that because DirecTV has the account. I don't give a rats you know what how it is classified but Tivo CAN give a lifetime account for more money to folks that purchased the original Lifetime account. And as to having two different lifetime accounts then (one S3 and one DirecTV)... who cares!!! There is no cosmic rule that is being broken. The universe will not cease to exist or anything else! Its simply process... and Tivo has made the choice to piss off a bunch of loyal customers. And that is damn shame! I was going to get an S3 but will not if I have to start over and pay a monthly fee. I'm now not only pissed at Tivo, but I'm also pissed at DirecTV. Maybe Dish's PVR would be acceptable now... ya right! Those will be turned off soon enough now. I'm not sure what to do. All I know is my family will be very upset to leave Tivo!

Ok, so you are mad and don't want anyone else to post anything that may be a reasonable explanation. ok. Good luck with that.

[ZeoTiVo]

in a nutshell - TiVo inc is missing a great marketing oppurtunity to lue Sat customers to S3 despite any logical reasons on why DTV lifetimes are not TiVo lifetimes. Now we also do not know everything. maybe TiVo is in talks with DTV and does not want to upset things. who knows

[jsl10]

Ok, so you are mad and don't want anyone else to post anything that may be a reasonable explanation. ok. Good luck with that.

No... I'm mad and I will correct people when they post things that are not correct like "there is no way Tivo can do it"... or "you paid DirecTV for lifetime not Tivo", or equating things like my old Tivo not being able to connect to the Internet with this situation, and on and on. If you can have no empathy for other's opinions and feel that things like above are reasonable then good luck with that to you as well!

[jsl10]

in a nutshell - TiVo inc is missing a great marketing oppurtunity to lue Sat customers to S3 despite any logical reasons on why DTV lifetimes are not TiVo lifetimes. Now we also do not know everything. maybe TiVo is in talks with DTV and does not want to upset things. who knows

Now that's a reasonable post! And I hope your right! My family wants to stay with Tivo. If DirecTV can't do it, it will have to be someone else. Wish Dish would sign up with Tivo!!!

[megazone]

TiVo and DTV also have an ongoing business relationship, above and beyond subscription revenue. You generally don't go after your business partner's subscribers unless you want to trash the relationship. If TiVo poached DTV subscribers that'd almost certainly sour their relationship with DTV. Even if it is a small number of users who jump ship, it is the principle of the offer.

What is their gain for what is almost certainly a small number of users? What is the potential loss for souring the DTV relationship?

Even if DirecTV never goes back to TiVo for DVR software, they have an advertising relationship which extends beyond the TiVo boxes. TiVo has a lot at stake if they soured the relationship.

Now, a competitive offer, like a special deal for Dish users who agree to ship in their old Dish receivers. That would be interesting. When I worked for hardware vendors we used to do that - ship us your Cisco, 3Com, Ascend, etc, access server and get a deal on a PortMaster.

[gokrt]

I have just started reading this forum due to the introduction of the Series3 Tivo. I was one of the first to purchase the Philips DirecTivo box, which has performed an outstanding job of heating up my living room.

To be able to enjoy the full capabilities of my newly acquired hd plasma (and to give the surrounding equipment a break from the heat generated by the tivo), I have been considering purchasing the Series3. Although I still had to convince the wife, who is addicted to Tivo but hasn't felt the need for HD yet...one of my main selling points for early adoption was that lifetime transfers would only be honored until the end of the year!

I was baffled to find that my lifetime subscription is not subject to the transfer deal posted by Tivo. This is an absolute deal killer.

So I will sit back and wait for Apple to introduce the iTV next year. Hopefully, that will come with some announcement of a cube or some other network attached storage that can perform (HD) DVR functions as well as store all of my audio and video content. I'm pretty sure the Apple user interface will match the Tivo experience.

2007 should be an interesting year for HD!

[bschott]

This thread just pi$ses me off every time I read it. I agree that we had a contract with Tivo, not DirecTV. In the back of my SAT-T60 users manual, it even tells me so.

Since I work in the computer industry, nothing is impossible when it comes to data transfer, and/or sharing of data. So the excuse the give you over the phone is just to shut the average consumer up since they cant argue that point.

However in the end, Megazone's comment regarding the relationship are probably more inline than anything I feel inside of me regardless of how pi$$ed I get. In the end, it's just business. And those of us who bought into Tivo's and DirecTv many years ago are not lucky enough to participate in their VIP program.

Perhaps Tivo will change their mind in the future, and decide to honor those of us who purchased their equipment many years ago, but based on the attitudes of CSR's, I doubt it.

A better way to defray the situation with potential irate folks such as myself when I tried to get mine converted would be to:

1) Clearly state that any DirecTivo owners cannot participate in the VIP program
2) Answer the phone and state: Sorry Mr. So and So, because of our ongoing relationship with DirecTV, we are not allowed to transfer accounts from DTV units to Stand Alones -- If you noticed on the VIP website, it stated this. A much better lie, than just we cant transfer accounts.

[Mad Hatter]

I never bought a lifetime subscription for my Sony SAT-T60 back in 2001 when I broke the oppresive bonds of Cable and joined D*, and hence I am not in a position to expect anything from TiVo at all in terms of their VIP upgrade/transfer offer.

Now, with that said, I along with the MANY "DirecTV DVR with TiVo" and "DirecTV High Definition DVR with TiVo" customers out there have comprised a significant portion of TiVo's install base for the past five to six years, every month contributing to their bottom line (despite our recently acquired bastard child status) through our monthly DVR fees.

In that time, the HR10-250 helped secure my fierce loyalty to TiVo (so fierce that I'm fighting all instincts and going back to cable with my S3 -- a decision made admittedly easier by D* antics as of late), and have "pushed the party line" to the tune of seven others putting at least one TiVo or "Device with TiVo" in their home. I'm sure I'm not alone in these characteristics.

I appreciate that TiVo is doing something that they don't have to with their VIP program, and it is great for the people that can take advantage of it. I also think it's crazy that they're not extending some kind of offer (it doesn't have to be as lucrative) to all D* w/ TiVo customers as additional motivation to follow the S3 to Cable. Unless something changes in a big way many of these subscribers will ultimately be lost to them.

Again, I'm not in a position to gain anything ... I already have my S3, and I'd probably have bought it at $1600 if that was the price ... but it seems pretty shortsighted to ignore the D* user base entirely.

I guess it's possible that they may have something in their agreement with D* to leave us alone. They may also be wisely playing nice with D* in hopes that separation from NewsCorp could kindle a new relationship. It's also possible that they're letting us early adopters work out the kinks before they push people to change their setups ... which I can very much appreciate.

Going back to Cable is hard for a D* user like me that swore I'd NEVER go back, even with D*'s crappy decisions, poor HD rollout, and compromised PQ. I feel like I'm following TiVo into bed and battle with the enemy. I'm prepared for unending tech visits, agonizing support calls with cable drones, quoting FCC regulations, and staring down supervisors in their own offices if necessary.

I know some D* refugees feel that they're not getting something they deserve. I think most would be happy with a little love from TiVo.


I am in the midst of learning how screwed I am that my DirecTV w/Tivo went down and was replaced by a DVR. I have had endless conversations with them and am just discovering this community. Your post is based in solid logic and I appreciate the summary. I am searching for options to fire them, but can't find cable in my area. It also appears that DishTV is no safer as they're in court with Tivo as we speak.

It's awful that they deliver a sophisticated product, adapt our watching habits and then slap an inferior replacement on you and play dumb.

If anyone has any advice in leaving them, I'm all ears.

Thanks for the post.

[gokrt]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread or not, but Lifetime at DirecTv means "lifetime on the box as long as _this_ box is active on _your_ account". So it does not transfer to another DirecTv account, nor does it transfer to another box on your account. No transfer, period. If you upgrade/replace your box, you loose lifetime.

[bidger]

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned in this thread or not, but Lifetime at DirecTv means "lifetime on the box as long as _this_ box is active on _your_ account".
I retired the D-TiVo I bought Lifetime on well over a year ago and I still have Lifetime so you're incorrect about the "as long as _this_ box is active" bit.

The Lifetime is on the account with D*. The only caveat is to make sure you activate the new box before you deactivate the box with Lifetime.