Apple Announces Set Top Box due Q1 2007

[Goontoe]

Apple just announced a set-top box due out in Q1 2007. It will be wireless. That's all the info I have right now.

ETA: iTV (not its final name). 1/2 size of Mac Mini, built-in power supply, USB, Ethernet, 802.11 "wireless component video", optical audio and HDMI ports, plus old RCA stereo audio ports. Works with Apple Remote

[telcta]

half the size of the mac-mini? Holy moly!

[DrDravenStone]

cnet's blogging the anoucment in more or less real time here:
http://news.com.com/2061-10793_3-6114744.html?tag=nefd.top



10:50 a.m.--"There is one last thing," Jobs said. Consumers need a box to drive that big flat-screen TV to play movies, and thus there will be a box to talk to the Mac, he said, showing off a device that looks like Mac Mini only smaller "Internally we call it iTV," that's a code-name.


10:55 a.m.--The new device has 802.11 wireless built in, wired networking, USB, an HDMI connector, and also component video, analog audio and optical audio. It will be controlled with an Apple remote and hooks directly to a TV or to set-top box or home theater system.

[Goontoe]

11:02 am Engadget: [Steve finds and plays The Incredibles. it's not 640x480, it's HDTV]

[rainwater]

This is a internet device the links to iTunes on your network to play downloaded movies/music and obviously DVDs inserted in the box itself. Its hardly a DVR type device that would interest me.

[doormat]

Indeed it may not be a DVR, however that was one of the things TiVo seems to be aspiring the S3 to be - a digital media recorder. iTV will allow you to play movies, music, whatever else (pictures probably too). TiVo really missed it here. The S3 should have launched with features like MP3s, pictures, podcasts, streaming content from the net down to your computer or the box, etc. They've had two years to get this stuff right.

And it'll be $300. Which is pretty good considering all that it gives you access to (esp. against an $800 S3 TiVo - is a PVR worth $500?).

[DrDravenStone]

It's not a DVR.



Yet.

[mnc042]

Maybe it's not a PVR yet, but --

Considering the catalog of TV shows at the iTunes Music Store, and now the addition of movies (yes, only from Disney today, but still..)

And the fact that it can handle HD (Jobs demo'ed "Incredibles" in HD)...

The point of a PVR is to watch what I want, when I want it. If my content is delivered to me in pristine form via an online store versus over the cable connection, do I really care?

Isn't this basically a PVR at its finest?

Just trying to think ahead and out of the box here.. :)

\marc

[Dan203]

Indeed it may not be a DVR, however that was one of the things TiVo seems to be aspiring the S3 to be - a digital media recorder. iTV will allow you to play movies, music, whatever else (pictures probably too). TiVo really missed it here. The S3 should have launched with features like MP3s, pictures, podcasts, streaming content from the net down to your computer or the box, etc. They've had two years to get this stuff right.

And it'll be $300. Which is pretty good considering all that it gives you access to (esp. against an $800 S3 TiVo - is a PVR worth $500?).


The S3 does do music, pictures and podcasts! The only thing that's not enabled yet is TTG and MRV. And that does not prevent them from allowing movie downloads via their TiVoCast initiative.

Dan

[andydumi]

so, you can download movies from itunes at 640x480, but those would look awful on a large HD screen.
what about the HD movie he showed, can we buy those? or will we have to rebuy movies when the iTV is released?

[andydumi]

Maybe it's not a PVR yet, but --

Considering the catalog of TV shows at the iTunes Music Store, and now the addition of movies (yes, only from Disney today, but still..)

And the fact that it can handle HD (Jobs demo'ed "Incredibles" in HD)...

The point of a PVR is to watch what I want, when I want it. If my content is delivered to me in pristine form via an online store versus over the cable connection, do I really care?

Isn't this basically a PVR at its finest?

Just trying to think ahead and out of the box here.. :)

\marc

plus you can get a usb or built in tv tuner and record your shows. then the iTV steams them to you TV.

[rainwater]

plus you can get a usb or built in tv tuner and record your shows. then the iTV steams them to you TV.

For $300, I'm guessing this box isn't going to handle usb devices that require much processor power like a TV tuner would.

[rainwater]

The S3 does do music, pictures and podcasts!

Saying it does Podcasts is a bit misleading. Let's just say it tries to do podcasts :)

[BigJimOutlaw]

Meh. If you want to buy your programming a la carte rather than record it, go for it, I guess.

But it's not meant to be a DVR replacement. It's more like a DVD player/Netflix replacement.

[andydumi]

For $300, I'm guessing this box isn't going to handle usb devices that require much processor power like a TV tuner would.
i meant tuner on your computer, then stream that to the iTV. I actuallys ee something like that coming rom Apple, a tv input, and then content management in iTunes.

[megazone]

Call it what it is - an Apple Media Center Extender.

[mnc042]

Meh. If you want to buy your programming a la carte rather than record it, go for it, I guess.

But it's not meant to be a DVR replacement. It's more like a DVD player/Netflix replacement.


I'm just saying, it sounds like it will do a lot of the things that I want out of my TiVo today.

Multi-room viewing? Check.

Content on my PC and my TV, and my portable device? Check.

The content I want without any ads at all? Check.

Today the limiting factor is the content, and content alone. Not all the content I want is available on the iTunes Music Store (or any online provider, to be fair.)

For example: If I could have my top three choices from my Netflix list automatically downloaded and waiting for me on my settop box, constantly updated whenever I view one of them and delete it, that would be 75% of what I use my TiVo for today. I probably wouldn't need as many of the movie channels anymore, either.

Looking ahead, more and more content will be delivered on-demand. The window for a broadcast PVR is slowly closing, and I think TiVo knows it, I just hope they can compete with companies that are looking ahead of the traditional DVR model.

It's fun to think about. We just have to get a licensing model that works for everyone.. and don't get me started on DRM, which TiVo is not immune from, unfortunately.

\marc

[MickeS]

Indeed it may not be a DVR, however that was one of the things TiVo seems to be aspiring the S3 to be - a digital media recorder. iTV will allow you to play movies, music, whatever else (pictures probably too). TiVo really missed it here. The S3 should have launched with features like MP3s, pictures, podcasts, streaming content from the net down to your computer or the box, etc. They've had two years to get this stuff right.

And it'll be $300. Which is pretty good considering all that it gives you access to (esp. against an $800 S3 TiVo - is a PVR worth $500?).

The Series 3 does what you say it should do. And more.

[johnh123]

The Series 3 doesn't seem to be able to play movies streamed from a computer, which is what I need out of it to get past the $800. Otherwise I'm better of waiting for a new vista computer-as-media-center/dvr.

[generalpatton71]

My 360 does what this ITV does and I get a kick @$$ game machine.

[doormat]

Saying it does Podcasts is a bit misleading. Let's just say it tries to do podcasts :)

Exactly. TiVo needs "base" software on a computer to manage **** like movies, podcasts, etc. I'll be damned if I ever type in a URL with the tivo remote. I tried it once it took me five minutes to put in three podcasts.

And from the reviews I read today, the S3 doesnt handle high res pictures that well, or at all.

[Dan203]

so, you can download movies from itunes at 640x480, but those would look awful on a large HD screen.

DirecTV and digital cable are only 480x480, and they look just fine on a big screen. And DVDs are only 720x480 and they look fantastic. I'm betting that 640x480 iTunes videos will look just fine on your big screen as well.

Not that I'd actually spend $2 for a TV show or $15 for a movie.

Dan

[davezatz]

Call it what it is - an Apple Media Center Extender.

Thank you!

[cgould]

I'm with johnh123 and doormat ; one of the things I was looking forward to w/ the S3 was a "HD video/pic media display box", relaying HD content from my PC to the far-away HDTV.
eg, what this iTV seems to do, and others like Buffalo LinkStation etc., also around $250-300.

That's $300 closer of an excuse/justification for me to buy an S3, competitively differentiates it from a plain cable STB-DVR, and would get Tivo a big foot in the door for "HD Media STB" or the long-heralded TV/PC media integration.
Seems Sony w/ PS3 and Apple w/ iTV are taking the first big steps to win here, while Tivo may miss out...
At least the S3 is here NOW, while the PS3 and iTV are still to come, so hopefully the software updates can come soon...
but the Xbox360 *IS* here now, and is knocking on the same opportunity door, and do we really want MS to win? :-P

Tivo S3 does some of those things now, but in SD ; sounds like HD photos may come soon, but not so sure about TivoGoBack upload type features... don't know why CableLabs would care about that, but??

Affordable HD camcorders are coming right NOW, HDTVs are exploding, powerful PCs and networking and "downloadable media" are arriving... NOW is the time for Tivo to hit this.

[harley3k]

Call it what it is - an Apple Media Center Extender.

Exactly.

I already have an intel Mac Mini plugged into my HDTV now for Music/Photos and Movies, and a DVD Player via Front Row.

The iTV thingee still needs a computer to get content from, so why not just get the whole mac mini - unless I guess you've already got a Mac or will this thing work with a PC? I'm not sure they said that yet.

I was looking for something like this for a while before I decided on the MacMini. I tried various Linksys/DLink devices and they all sucked bad.

The Mini works great and I can do video editing on it too on my 50" HDTV...

It wasn't the cheapest solution for music/photo streaming to my living room, but it is the sleakest HTPC setup I've ever had.

-h

[eisenb11]

From what I understand... the iTV doesn't have CableCard support or any tuner for that matter.

Being that it's not a DVR it really isn't good to compare it against a S3... or a S1 or S2 for that matter.

Even if you can buy stuff from iTunes, I don't like the idea of having to pick stuff a-la-carte (so much for checking a show out to see if you like it... for "free")... then you also have to download it after you buy it. It's going to take forever to download a HD movie or show, for example.

I don't think the iTV will make a halfway decent STB replacment. It may make a fun media center extender, but no way will it replace your actual STB or S3 unit.

[vstone]

Some folk here are talking about waiting for Vista. It may make a difference and it may not, but I believe that cablecard support will only be available in the 64bit version due to the enganced security in the 64bit version. Can a Vista expert confirm that?

It may mean a new PC instead of upgrading a current one. I thinks most references were to building or buying one, so it may not make much of a difference.

I find the XP MCE interface pretty good, but there's a few nits in it.

Edit: Sorry, this ended up in the wrong thread.

[infinitespecter]

CC support in Vista is dependant on the manufacturer having a trusted computing module installed and the manufacturer registering the entire PC (Not just a CC adapter) with CableLabs. This means that in order to get CC support, you have to buy a new supported Media Center PC running Vista. The version of Vista you run is irrelevant as long as it has Media Center.

[eisenb11]

Some folk here are talking about waiting for Vista. It may make a difference and it may not, but I believe that cablecard support will only be available in the 64bit version due to the enganced security in the 64bit version. Can a Vista expert confirm that?

It may mean a new PC instead of upgrading a current one. I thinks most references were to building or buying one, so it may not make much of a difference.

I find the XP MCE interface pretty good, but there's a few nits in it.

Edit: Sorry, this ended up in the wrong thread.

It *will* mean having to buy a new PC. Unfortunately for us pc-building enthusiasts out there, the *entire* pc is cert'ed by cable labs, not just the video sub system.

[bkdtv]

It *will* mean having to buy a new PC. Unfortunately for us pc-building enthusiasts out there, the *entire* pc is cert'ed by cable labs, not just the video sub system.
Yep, and these fully equipped PCs with dual CableCard support won't be cheap. To get the same basic functionality on the Series3 (but without the intuitive Tivo software), you're probably looking at a $1800-$2400 PC from Dell.

You can forget building your own $600-$800 PC to record digital cable channels, because CableLabs won't certify those DIY boxes. No certification = no digital cable compatibility with your cable company.

[eisenb11]

bkdtv, you're right and I rescind my statement about the prices being comperable...

Let's do some math... We need:

*) HDMI video card
*) Windows Vista OS
*) 2x cable card PCI cards
*) processor
*) motherboard
*) hard drive
*) memory
*) case w power supply
*) DVD-ROM drive
*) warranty (even the "freebie" costs money)

This is the bare minimum for a HTPC.

Windows alone will retail for around $400ish for a non-upgrade of the ultimate edition... that's already half the price of the S3.

HDMI vid cards are currently around $250... so we're now around $650.

We just covered 2 of 11 parts (minimum) needed to build the computer... It's going to be difficult to build something equivalent to an S3 for anywhere near that price... even if you throw in the cost of Lifetime with the S3....