It's the 12th!

[raober]

Nothing on TiVo's site, BB, or Amazon yet. Had to check, of course. :)

[dkroboth]

Well. I guess the embargo didn't lift at 12am eastern time. I guess we have to wait three more hours to see if anything happens.

[irkedpenguin]

It looks like it has been lifted, Gizmodo posted a review for it just a few minutes ago.

[sharding]

USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2006-09-11-tivo-high-def_x.htm?POE=TECISVA

Gearlog:

http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/archive/2006/09/12/20861.aspx

[jeffrypennock]

Wow, you guys found that stuff FAST

[Philly Bill]

It's still the 11th here. :)

[sharding]

I found mine by searching "tivo" on Google News. Looks like the USA Today story is actually an AP wire story, so lots of sites will probably have that online soon.

[supasta]

Man, that price tag alone is enought for me to put the S3 on hold for some time..... Looks like another DT for me instead.

[jeffrypennock]

:( Thank goodness we all signed up for that e-mail list!

[supasta]

I find it VERY interesting that all of these stories are 12:01, 12:04, these articles and reviews have been written for days, weeks probobly - and posted at the stroke of midnight.....interesting.

[irkedpenguin]

So the question is, now that the media embargo has been lifted (with all the articles released at midnight), when will the retail embargo be lifted?

[supasta]

Either way, it is going to be hard for TiVo to expand much of a user base for the S3 with a price tag like that. Many lay folk who are looking for DVR function are simply going to rent for $5-10/month from their provider. Also, IMO, the lack of TiVo2Go and HME questionability at this time seems to be another turn-off.

I guess what I am saying is that I hope the release of the S3 cheapens prices on the other units....

[davezatz]

Well. I guess the embargo didn't lift at 12am eastern time.

Actually, it did. I'm just way behind schedule. ;)

So the question is, now that the media embargo has been lifted (with all the articles released at midnight), when will the retail embargo be lifted?

Goes on sale today at TiVo.com. It'll hit Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, and Ultimate Electronics in the next week or so. No mention of Amazon.

Here's some info and pics I put together for Engadget:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/hands-on-with-the-tivo-series3/

I've got some videos coming as well...

:D

[irkedpenguin]

Thanks.

[doormat]

The video review from PCMag.com was pretty good. Video showing the output modes, the OSD, etc. The fact that they didnt upgrade the OSD icons and text for HD does seem to suck though. You figure they've had so long to get it right. PCMag article did seem to indicate TTG is indefinately removed. We many never see it again (which sucks ass but oh well). He did demo the signal meter (for OTA antenna), but nothing about unscrambled QAM (I dont thin PCMag has access to cable TV in their bldg).

Towards the end Robert Heron did indicate there would be a discount if you buy the service for multiple years.

Again no mention of eSATA in terms of whether it works or not.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2014570,00.asp

[dkroboth]

Well, I have say I'm a little disappointed. It sounds like the Series 3 is what I expected it to be and nothing more. But on the plus side, I guess most of those features I was hoping for and didn't get I wasn't expecting to use too much.

Dave, do you need to two cable cards to record two in the clear QAM channels? Or will one perform the mapping for both tuners?

[doormat]

Dave, the purchase three years for the price of 2 ($299 deal) will that qualify my other TiVo for MSD?

[Kablemodem]

Gearlog:

http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/archive/2006/09/12/20861.aspx

That has got to be the most assinine thing I have ever read. The guy says the only reason to get an S3 is for HD, but he doesn't think it is worth it since he doesn't have HD. That's like saying he thought VCRs were worthless beacuse he didn't have a TV.

[davezatz]

eSATA is not active yet.
No CableCARDs are needed for unencrypted QAM.
I'm not sure if the $299 for three years of service will qualify another unit for MSD.

(I should also have some videos up on Engadget at some point, so stay tuned. Remember who referred you when you activate your shiny new S3.;))

[supasta]

That's like saying he thought VCRs were worthless beacuse he didn't have a TV.


Silly question.....What good is a VCR without a TV?

[rainwater]

eSATA is not active yet.
No CableCARDs are needed for unencrypted QAM.
I'm not sure if the $299 for three years of service will qualify another unit for MSD.

I wonder what the box upgrade fee will be to get the service deal w/ 3 years.

[davezatz]

I wonder what the box upgrade fee will be to get the service deal w/ 3 years.
It's $799 across the board. I think we'll learn more about the pricing dynamics when TiVo updates their site in the morning.

[rainwater]

It's $799 across the board.

Hmm. So what's the point of buying service then? Other than the getting a year free w/ a 3 year contract.

[doormat]

I think thats it rainwater. Thats the only "incentive" TiVo is offering right now. You save $170 after the three years.

[rainwater]

I think thats it rainwater. Thats the only "incentive" TiVo is offering right now. You save $170 after the three years.

So for signing up for 3 years you save $4/month? Who is going to do that? I mean, the monthly savings is nice, but I don't see people jumping on a 3 year contract for that.

[rodalpho]

If you buy before christmas you're an early adopter, with all that implies. If you're price sensitive, wait 3 months to buy.

[lawilson2]

Tech changes too darn much to invest in a box like this for 3 years IMO.

[doormat]

I agree rainwater. Like rodalpho mentions, now its whether or not I want it before or after the Superbowl (thats when I'd expect the price to drop, and maybe then only $100).

They really werent kidding about not subsidizing this box.

[rainwater]

If you buy before christmas you're an early adopter, with all that implies. If you're price sensitive, wait 3 months to buy.

Yes. I had planned on buying it after Christmas anyways. Not just because of the price, but I would rather wait and see how it all shakes out (software bugs, missing features, etc).

[stevereis]

Here's some info and pics I put together for Engadget:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/12/hands-on-with-the-tivo-series3/
Thanks for the pix of the guts Dave. Looks like the internal drive is SATA ... small red cable looping over the CableCARDS...

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/09/tivo-series3-guts.jpg

[rodalpho]

Tech changes too darn much to invest in a box like this for 3 years IMO.
That's what I thought when I bought my 14 hour series 1, in 1999 or 2000, I forget. So I didn't blow the $200 on lifetime.

I'm still using it today. Skipped series2 entirely.

[davezatz]

Thanks for the pix of the guts Dave. Looks like the internal drive is SATA ... small red cable looping over the CableCARDS...

I had to "borrow" a torx screwdriver from work to get that shot. ;)

[Kablemodem]

Silly question.....What good is a VCR without a TV?
Exactly.

[reh523]

Hmm. So what's the point of buying service then?


Ah I think you need the service to get the guide and to record.... So the point would be to use the unit!

[generalpatton71]

I have the h10-250 and with all those features disabled on the S3 right now I just don't see why I would upgrade right now. The price is also a little high for me. Even if it was 500$ I'd take another look at it. I don't see myself staying with D* and getting the H20, but in a year the situation on the S3 may be more clear (SDV,CC2.0,Comcast Tivo, ect). Plus the price may be where I want it to be.

[Arcady]

I'm waiting to see if the 6.3 upgrade on the HR10-250 can be hacked to do MRV. If so, why would I pay $800 for a new S3 that can't do MRV?

This is probably also the end of TiVo with two internal drives, since the box uses SATA, and I'll bet there's only a single internal connector. Of course, you have the external option now. (Yeah, I really want a drive case sitting in my AV rack... not.)

[lawilson2]

My issue is this: The service is 19.95/month if you do month to month. Even at prepay it's still up there. Then you have to rent the cable cards, which are $3-$5/month each depending on your provider. For me for instance, at 19.95/month with 2 cable cards, we're looking at $29.95/month, not counting my cable bill. I watch a good amount of TV, but wow, that's steep. The box isn't necessarily the issue for me, it's these other factors...

[dswallow]

I'm waiting to see if the 6.3 upgrade on the HR10-250 can be hacked to do MRV. If so, why would I pay $800 for a new S3 that can't do MRV?

This is probably also the end of TiVo with two internal drives, since the box uses SATA, and I'll bet there's only a single internal connector. Of course, you have the external option now. (Yeah, I really want a drive case sitting in my AV rack... not.)
Well, considering you can get one drive that can hold 750GB today, it's not all that much a limitation. :)

[Agent86]

No MRV huh? That's a real downer. I figured there would be no TTG, but no MRV is a huge letdown.

Dave: Can you and your Torx driver confirm that there is only one SATA port on the S3 motherboard? :)

[dswallow]

My issue is this: The service is 19.95/month if you do month to month. Even at prepay it's still up there. Then you have to rent the cable cards, which are $3-$5/month each depending on your provider. For me for instance, at 19.95/month with 2 cable cards, we're looking at $29.95/month, not counting my cable bill. I watch a good amount of TV, but wow, that's steep. The box isn't necessarily the issue for me, it's these other factors...
TiVo service is $12.95 per month if you do month-to-month. The $19.95 is if you want to include a Series 2 DVR. Since you'd be buying the Series 3 unit separately, you would be paying only $12.95 for just the TiVo service.

From the latest FCC filings on the matter, it appears the top 4 cable companies all charge under $2 each per month for CableCards.

[dswallow]

No MRV huh? That's a real downer. I figured there would be no TTG, but no MRV is a huge letdown.

Dave: Can you and your Torx driver confirm that there is only one SATA port on the S3 motherboard? :)
There's most likely support for two SATA connections in the chipset they're using. But remember that one of them is dedicated to an external "future-use" connection, leaving just one other for the internal hard drive.

[generalpatton71]

My issue is this: The service is 19.95/month if you do month to month. Even at prepay it's still up there. Then you have to rent the cable cards, which are $3-$5/month each depending on your provider. For me for instance, at 19.95/month with 2 cable cards, we're looking at $29.95/month, not counting my cable bill. I watch a good amount of TV, but wow, that's steep. The box isn't necessarily the issue for me, it's these other factors...

There hasn't been any bundle plans announced for the S3. So as of right now it's 800$ only and monthly fee.

P.S- It's 2;30am and I'm going to sleep somebody wake me if a bundled price is announced for under 500$.

[lawilson2]

Thanks for clarifying that. Sorry about making an additional thread to get that answered; I thought my question would get buried in here. :) I'm with RCN. So if I need 2 cards, then that's $4/month.
Thanks!

[Troy J B]

Well, considering you can get one drive that can hold 750GB today, it's not all that much a limitation. :)

on that subject...
do the existing mfs cd's support SATA drives?

[dswallow]

Here's the info reported to the FCC by cable companies regarding CableCard deployment and costs: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518372521

[DCIFRTHS]

I'm waiting to see if the 6.3 upgrade on the HR10-250 can be hacked to do MRV. If so, why would I pay $800 for a new S3 that can't do MRV?

This is probably also the end of TiVo with two internal drives, since the box uses SATA, and I'll bet there's only a single internal connector. Of course, you have the external option now. (Yeah, I really want a drive case sitting in my AV rack... not.)

You can probably add a larger drive once people see if the current tools will work. If they don't, then there will probably somebody who comes out with new tools.

[lawilson2]

Here's the info reported to the FCC by cable companies regarding CableCard deployment and costs: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518372521

Thanks for the document. RCN wasn't even mentioned; guess they aren't in the top 4. I printed out the Comcast cost though since they are the competitor here in Chicago. They charge $0 for the cards. I'll see if RCN will match.

[megazone]

Actually, it did. I'm just way behind schedule. ;)See, I asked and was told 9AM EST. So I'm waiting to post mine. :-(

[AgentSmith]

Dave: Can you and your Torx driver confirm that there is only one SATA port on the S3 motherboard? :)
Why would it matter? There's an external SATA connector right on the back of the box. If it's not enabled at release, chances are it will be soon enough. No OS hacking, no breaking open the box - just plug and play an external SATA drive and you're expanded.

[megazone]

There is ONE SATA header on the board. Confirmed.

[DCIFRTHS]

Are there any close up pics of the internals on the S3 floating around?

[megazone]

Are there any close up pics of the internals on the S3 floating around?Psst, look in the Series3 Photos thread. ;-)

[DCIFRTHS]

Psst, look in the Series3 Photos thread. ;-)

Sweet! Thanks.

[TiVotion]

Pony? Where are you Pony?

Oh, it's 3:50am CA time. He's still asleep. :(

[rainwater]

Ah I think you need the service to get the guide and to record.... So the point would be to use the unit!

That is not what I was talking about. You can get service for $12.95/month, so there's no incentive for an early adopter to sign up for a prepaid contract. Plus, it will not qualify for MSD that way either.

[lawilson2]

That is not what I was talking about. You can get service for $12.95/month, so there's no incentive for an early adopter to sign up for a prepaid contract. Plus, it will not qualify for MSD that way either.

Hi,

I'm relatively ignorant on the MSD. Has that been discontinued, or if I get the S3 (I have current service) will the service be 6.95? Thx.

[megazone]

I'm relatively ignorant on the MSD. Has that been discontinued, or if I get the S3 (I have current service) will the service be 6.95? Thx.As far as anyone knows MSD is still available on the S3 purchased at retail. I'm sure we'll hear more on pricing later today.

[Raj]

USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/products/2006-09-11-tivo-high-def_x.htm?POE=TECISVA

Gearlog:

http://gearlog.com/blogs/gearlog/archive/2006/09/12/20861.aspx


USA Today:

"TiVo unveils its first high-definition DVR"

First? So what was the HR10-250?

[rainwater]

USA Today:

"TiVo unveils its first high-definition DVR"

First? So what was the HR10-250?

DirectTV's first HD DVR :)

[megazone]

DirectTV's first HD DVR :)Exactly - the HR10-250 was never a TiVo product. It was a DirecTV product that used TiVo software. Just like the DVR-810H is a Pioneer DVR, officially. Not a TiVo product.

[aaronwt]

TiVo service is $12.95 per month if you do month-to-month. The $19.95 is if you want to include a Series 2 DVR. Since you'd be buying the Series 3 unit separately, you would be paying only $12.95 for just the TiVo service.

From the latest FCC filings on the matter, it appears the top 4 cable companies all charge under $2 each per month for CableCards.


Comcast charges $4.95 per cable card here.

So once they enable MRV I would need up to 6 cable cards until they multi stream cards later this year.

[aaronwt]

So for signing up for 3 years you save $4/month? Who is going to do that? I mean, the monthly savings is nice, but I don't see people jumping on a 3 year contract for that.

It's a savings of $4.65 a month. That's $167.40 over the 3 years. I'm definitely going to pay the 3 years up front for those savings. That's a savings of 36% which is a big percentage. That is definitely worth it.

[rainwater]

It's a savings of $4.65 a month. That's $167.40 over the 3 years. I'm definitely going to pay the 3 years up front for those savings. That's a savings of 36% which is a big percentage. That is definitely worth it.

Not if you already have a S2 and the MSD still applies. Plus, I would never commit to 3 years with first generation technology.

[dswallow]

Comcast charges $4.95 per cable card here.

So once they enable MRV I would need up to 6 cable cards until they multi stream cards later this year.
I'd be curious the response if you'd point out to them that corporate Comcast is reporting to the FCC that they don't charge anything for the CableCard: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6518372521 (page 16).

Of course, they seem to be hiding the monthly fee from the FCC by still trying to charge "additional outlet" fees. But at least that'd mean your first is free as part of your "digital cable" costs. Still, seems like an arguable point.

According to this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4318034&&#post4318034) at least some Comcast areas will consider 2 CableCards as one outlet if the device takes 2 cards.

[classicX]

It's a savings of $4.65 a month. That's $167.40 over the 3 years. I'm definitely going to pay the 3 years up front for those savings. That's a savings of 36% which is a big percentage. That is definitely worth it.

<sarcasm>

I know how you can save 100%. (snicker)

</sarcasm>

[headless chicken]

<sarcasm>

I know how you can save 100%. (snicker)

</sarcasm>

Hehe. I'm on board with the 100% savings for now. ;)