Transfer S1 or S2 lifetime to S3 for $199!!! [Text View] - Page 2

echodave

09-07-2006, 11:56 AM

I caught this promo while performing my usual morning routine...blearily turn off alarm, head downstairs, groggily turn on tv that's set via the Tivo to hit the morning news starting at 5:30, and see if anything interesting came in via email overnight while drinking that vital first cup of coffee. Like other folks, the promo interrupted the news I was watching...and for once, I'm glad I didn't tell it to pick it up later.

I'm impressed by the offer, but I'm still incredibly torn as to whether or not I'm going to take advantage of it. I've got five Tivos in the house, all series 2 (3 Tivo branded, one Toshiba, one Humax), all with the lifetime subscription, and all functioning fine and dandy as they are. I've got three of them hooked up to the 3 HDTV's I have in the house, and to be honest, I don't see a whole lot of difference in the picture quality when I view through the Tivo, directly through the cable input, or via the cable box...and I don't know that "not a whole lot of difference" is worth (a roughly estimated) $1,000 per unit :eek: to pick up the new Series 3 boxes to replace them. Yes, there is a difference...but is it $1,000 worth of difference?

Granted, the existing series 2's could be turned into gifts or sold...but I don't know that I'm nice enough of a guy to blow $3,000 just to have a few units to dump off, especially since there are other new toys coming out towards the end of the year that I'm going to want to get my hands on. Granted, Sony has officially torqued me off enough with the recent PS3 debacle announcements that I'm off that bandwagon so that money's freed up...but still...

...I guess I'd like to hear from folks why they're now suddenly so anxious to run out and pick a series 3 when, from the lurking that I've been doing here, the only real change is the opportunity to fork out another $200 for your same lifetime subscription.

I can be swayed...educate me.

ah30k

09-07-2006, 12:00 PM

...I've got three of them hooked up to the 3 HDTV's I have in the house, and to be honest, I don't see a whole lot of difference in the picture quality when I view through the Tivo, directly through the cable input, or via the cable box...I can't believe you don't see a difference between TiVo SD and STB HD boradcasts! If you are comparing the TiVo SD to the STB SD then fine, but comparing the TiVo SD to an HD show is like night and day!!!

1) Full widescreen
2) Much higher resolution
3) Surround sound

Sign me up for the S3 as soon as possible!

Stu_Bee

09-07-2006, 12:03 PM

Ability to record HD. But if you can't tell the difference between a SD signal and an HD signal, then that's a good reason to save your money.

jeffrypennock

09-07-2006, 12:07 PM

Ability to record HD. But if you can't tell the difference between a SD signal and an HD signal, then that's a good reason to save your money.
Well, it's a good reason to get your vision checked also.

echodave

09-07-2006, 12:09 PM

I can't believe you don't see a difference between TiVo SD and STB HD boradcasts! If you are comparing the TiVo SD to the STB SD then fine, but comparing the TiVo SD to an HD show is like night and day!!!

1) Full widescreen
2) Much higher resolution
3) Surround sound

Sign me up for the S3 as soon as possible!

[chuckle] Perhaps I'm not as big of a geek as I've been accused of. I stand in awe of the unabashed Kool-Aid drinkers. :)

Like I said, yes, there is a difference, much like the difference between catching a movie on HBO versus HBOHD...but my problem is that I'm not sure that even my geek factor can rationalize the $1,000 a pop for that difference.

If it gets a little more reasonable, and drops by a couple hundred bucks, I'll likely talk myself into it and be all over it (for some reason, my brain has no problem with a 3 x $600 or maybe even a 3 x $700 pricetag but balks at 1 x $1,000...I never said I was always logical and/or rational) but I just really can't think my way through $1,000, possibly since two of those series 2's were picked up and lifetimed within the last year.

ah30k

09-07-2006, 12:12 PM

[chuckle] Like I said, yes, there is a difference, [ I thought you said you couldn't see much of a difference.

...but my problem is that I'm not sure that even my geek factor can rationalize the $1,000 a pop for that difference.[ Now this is a totally fair question. Many are wondering the same thing.

DancnDude

09-07-2006, 12:15 PM

A few more reasons people want to upgrade...
- Get rid of your cable box (in addition, no IR blasters)
- Add an additional tuner (assuming you don't have a S2 DT)
- LCD screen on the front that tells you what's recording on each tuner
- It records the actual digital stream, so you always get "best" quality for digital channels

greg_burns

09-07-2006, 12:18 PM

I've got three of them hooked up to the 3 HDTV's I have in the house, and to be honest, I don't see a whole lot of difference in the picture quality when I view through the Tivo, directly through the cable input, or via the cable box...

What are the screen sizes of your HDTV's? My 31" HDTV is very nice with HD, but not stunning. It is much more appreciable with BIG screens, IMO.

classicX

09-07-2006, 12:20 PM

I was not planning on buying the Series 3 right away since I don't have an HDTV yet, but I want to get both in the coming year. I'm happy with my current TiVos and didn't really need more, but this deal pretty much hooked me. I'll probably now transfer my Series 1 so I can network the Series 3 and transfer shows to my Series 2 machines as well.

So for me, this promo has gotten me interested in Series 3 a lot earlier than I would have been if I would have to pay monthly.

Or you could by your lifetime S3 for $1000 and then sell it on eBay for $1500+.

Yum.

echodave

09-07-2006, 12:21 PM

- Add an additional tuner (assuming you don't have a S2 DT)

See, to me at least, that reason doesn't have much appeal to me. That's why I have five of the suckers in the first place...if I'm watching something and want to grab something else...well, that's what the other units and being able to transfer over the wireless network are for.

- Get rid of your cable box (in addition, no IR blasters)

I don't mind the cable boxes - the IR blasters I could definitely live without though. Hmmm...now that I've said that, I guess I ought to go see what the actual monthly fee per cable box in the house is, and do a little math. The rationalization might be easier.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

davezatz

09-07-2006, 12:22 PM

Or you could by your lifetime S3 for $1000 and then sell it on eBay for $1500+.

How large is the market that would pay that much?

MickeS

09-07-2006, 12:24 PM

jfh3

09-07-2006, 12:29 PM

How large is the market that would pay that much?

Who knows? We thought the first eBay sales of the lifetime cards at $499 were crazy and that there would be no market.

And then the prices just went up.

But since Tivo put a suggested value of $1500 on a Series 3 with lifetime during the Idol Speculation contest, I'll bet someone will sell a lifetimed S3 on eBay for that and get it.

Bierboy

09-07-2006, 12:30 PM

Like I wrote somewhere else, it's easy to be analytical and rational when everything is just hypothetical, but when it is actually a real scenario, then it's "DAMN I WANT IT!" :D
And I think those folks were just LOOKING for an excuse to jump on this bandwagon while initially trying to give the impression they were disinterested in paying that "much" money.

DancnDude

09-07-2006, 12:31 PM

See, to me at least, that reason doesn't have much appeal to me. That's why I have five of the suckers in the first place...if I'm watching something and want to grab something else...well, that's what the other units and being able to transfer over the wireless network are for.

That's also 5 Season Pass Managers to manage. :) The dual tuners use a single SPM and figure out the top 2 shows that it can record at any given time automatically. I know with my multiple TiVos, I'm checking each TiVo to see what is recording what in order to add a Season Pass that gets everything I want with no conflicts. Unless each of the units is in a different room, you could replace 2 S2 units with a single S3 and get the same or better functionality.

ufo4sale

09-07-2006, 12:32 PM

What's the cut off date for a grandfather lifetime?

ufo4sale

09-07-2006, 12:33 PM

Nervermind I found my answer.

davezatz

09-07-2006, 12:36 PM

Who knows? We thought the first eBay sales of the lifetime cards at $499 were crazy and that there would be no market. And then the prices just went up.

Assuming the $800 price we keep hearing is accurate, that means someone would be paying $700 for Lifetime Service. That's about 4.5 years to break even at $12.95/mo and 8+ years at $6.95. Hopefully, I'll have a S4 by then. ;) I'm not saying there wouldn't be any takers, I just wonder how many - I can't imagine it would be a large number.

classicX

09-07-2006, 12:39 PM

Who knows? We thought the first eBay sales of the lifetime cards at $499 were crazy and that there would be no market.

And then the prices just went up.

But since Tivo put a suggested value of $1500 on a Series 3 with lifetime during the Idol Speculation contest, I'll bet someone will sell a lifetimed S3 on eBay for that and get it.

:up:

That's where I got the price from. I you bet there are people that would pay it *ahem*Chucky*ahem*

Especially people with no other way to get lifetime on a Tivo (like me).

Personally I wouldn't buy an S3 for $800, so I sure as heck wouldn't buy a lifetime one for $1500, but to each his own.

lessd

09-07-2006, 12:44 PM

I have a series 2 at home but do not have HD cable service. Will I be able to use the new series 3? I would like to take advantage of the transfer of my lifetime service but I wanted to know if it would work without HD

The Series will work without a Cable Card but in that case it will do no more then a Series 2 DT (The Series 2 DT will run an external cable box and the Series 3 will not do that) and record (up to two programs at the same time) the first 99 analog channels of your cable system.

The series is meant to replace a HV-DVR cable box by putting in two Cable Cards

echodave

09-07-2006, 12:44 PM

What are the screen sizes of your HDTV's? My 31" HDTV is very nice with HD, but not stunning. It is much more appreciable with BIG screens, IMO.

39" in the bedroom, 57" in the living room and 65" in the basement.

You may actually be onto something. Most of my experimentation has been in the bedroom.

Wait...that doesn't sound right... :D

Anyway, in all due seriousness, I do think I've done more playing around with the differences on the 39". Maybe I'll mess around with the larger screens and see what I think.

Unless each of the units is in a different room, you could replace 2 S2 units with a single S3 and get the same or better functionality.

5 TVs with individual Tivos spread throughout the three levels of the house: Basement, Salon (my wife's a hairdresser and I built her a salon a separate area in the basement), Living Room (main floor), Front Room (main floor) and Bedroom (upstairs)...so yep, they're spread out.

classicX

09-07-2006, 12:56 PM

5 TVs with individual Tivos spread throughout the three levels of the house: Basement, Salon (my wife's a hairdresser and I built her a salon a separate area in the basement), Living Room (main floor), Front Room (main floor) and Bedroom (upstairs)...so yep, they're spread out.

[OFF TOPIC]

Just out of curiousity, do you have a big family who all watch different things?

It boggles my mind that someone would need that many televisions unless that were the case. I'll give you the salon one, but why have a Tivo in there?

[/OFF TOPIC]

drosoph

09-07-2006, 01:14 PM

Without having to dig too hard, how many hours is a S3 (Standard Definition Recording at lowest quality) ??? Also, is than a SATA or an eSATA port on the S3?

echodave

09-07-2006, 01:16 PM

[OFF TOPIC]

Just out of curiousity, do you have a big family who all watch different things?

It boggles my mind that someone would need that many televisions unless that were the case. I'll give you the salon one, but why have a Tivo in there?

[/OFF TOPIC]

Sadly, no. For the moment, it's just the wife and I. Basically, here's how it all evolved:

- The Tivo that is now in the salon is the first one that I ever bought. It was originally hooked into the 65" tv. These were two of my "happy divorce" presents to myself.

- I bought a second one to have on the tv that was in my bedroom.

- Eventually, my (then) girlfriend at the time wants one. I get one for her.

- We buy a house together. Women, like nature, cats, and dogs abhor vacuums created by empty space. In order to fill up the empty space, additional purchases were made including a 57" tv. The original tivo stays with the 65" tv. The 57" tv gets a new Toshiba unit. The front room gets the tv and tivo from my old bedroom. The tv and unit from her house moves into our bedroom.

- The salon is built. A tv is placed in it.

- Tivo announces that they will no longer be selling lifetime subscriptions. I'd been thinking about getting one of the DVD-R units, and since I'll be damned if I'm paying a monthly fee, I go buy one of the Humax units with a DVD burner in it. This is attached to the 65" tv, and the original Tivo unit is now moved into the salon.

So...that's why there are five TVs and Tivos in the house.

That, and, umm...well, I'm sort of an impulse shopper when it comes to gadgets and toys. Hence the reason that I'm looking for rationalization assistance :D

Living Room: Records the shows we typically watch together.

Front Room: Records episodes of various Law and Order flavors that we'll transfer over if nothing's on, as well as the "Extreme Makeover" shows that I have zero interest in and she can watch when I'm not around.

Basement: Records the stuff that I like but she doesn't. South Park, etc.

Salon: Were it not for the lifetime subscription already on it, it'd be a dead box. However, since it's there, she uses it to grab whatever shows she thinks her clients will want to watch, and keeps several of those on there for whenever they're there.

Bedroom: Mostly brain candy stuff to fall asleep to. Iron Chef. Miami Vice. The occasional, well, it's called Skinemax for a reason [chuckle]

It's all really quite rational, logical, and well thought out, I assure you.

Mostly.

Sorta.

Okay, maybe not.

Jazhuis

09-07-2006, 01:23 PM

What are the screen sizes of your HDTV's? My 31" HDTV is very nice with HD, but not stunning. It is much more appreciable with BIG screens, IMO.

I just got a 56" Samsung, and I will say that INHD and INHD2 are amazing...depending on the program content. Even the difference between SD Fox and HD Fox is huge (even if it's "only" 720p).

So yeah, HD is probably more appreciable once you get > 40" or so. On the flip side, getting a larger TV really shows the poor quality of SD content.

davezatz

09-07-2006, 01:42 PM

(even if it's "only" 720p)

I'd argue there isn't much difference in quality between 720p and 1080i anyway, but it'd be off topic. :)

TiVo Troll

09-07-2006, 01:47 PM

Without having to dig too hard, how many hours is a S3 (Standard Definition Recording at lowest quality) ???

When the appropriate channel is selected for recording a program it will be possible to choose between recording in standard or high-def on Series 3. I'd never use basic, the lowest setting, but high quality will work as good as always for standard-def for probably more hours than I'll ever use.

TiVo Troll

09-07-2006, 01:48 PM

A recorded announcement asking us to call back when the S3 is available would be good too.

The least they could do and still maintain decent PR!

TiVo Troll

09-07-2006, 01:52 PM

Yeah I think I'll just hold onto those videos then.

Sorry guys.
I'm sure you'll see them soon enough.

I edited the buffered recording of Teleworld and have it saved on the Philips' hard drive. Normally I'd offer to make and mail a DVD+R of it to whomever would put it online, but I'm splittin' tomorrow, and don't have time.

MichaelK

09-07-2006, 02:08 PM

a 32 inch HD TV is plenty big enough to see the differnce between SD and HD if you sit 2 feet away. On the flip side if you have a 50 inch and sit 25 feet away I'm not sure the human eye can detect the increased detail.

So it's not just hiow big the set is but how far away.

CNET I think used to have a chart of how close you would need to sit to see the difference in detail.

tunnelengineer

09-07-2006, 02:27 PM

I have a 52" set and I can't tell much difference from 16 feet away. When sitting on the couch which is 8-9 feet away the difference is like night and day.

Has anyone seen any screenshots of the s3 Tivo menus? I am wondering how they differentiate SD and HD recordings. Also wondering if there is any way to set higher priorities for HS shows than over SD shows?

Bierboy

09-07-2006, 02:28 PM

Without having to dig too hard, how many hours is a S3 (Standard Definition Recording at lowest quality) ??? Also, is than a SATA or an eSATA port on the S3?300 and yes.

TiVo Troll

09-07-2006, 02:29 PM

...I guess I'd like to hear from folks why they're now suddenly so anxious to run out and pick a series 3 when, from the lurking that I've been doing here, the only real change is the opportunity to fork out another $200 for your same lifetime subscription.

I can be swayed...educate me.

I won't buy a DVR, other than a cable DVR which is rented cheap without obligation, which requires monthly service payments. (In fact I still have a Dish 501, which doesn't require a monthly fee, if we ever go back to satellite.) So it's really nice to see this offer from TiVo just as an affirmation that, for some people, Lifetime Service is a deal maker.

That being said, I do have a Lifetime Gift Card and it may make sense to use it next year after Series 3's price drops.

I'd actually like to see an upgraded dual tuner Series 2 which can integrate analog and digital OTA with cable. That would be worth applying Lifetime service to as much as Series 3. (The Gift Card is good for 2 1/2 years.)

Why get Series 3 at all? Because it's really neat! But the decision is yours.

TiVo Troll

09-07-2006, 02:31 PM

CNET I think used to have a chart of how close you would need to sit to see the difference in detail.

Here's (http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html) one!

greg_burns

09-07-2006, 02:35 PM

Here's (http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html) one!

I'd better pull the couch a little closer. :eek:

echodave

09-07-2006, 02:37 PM

I'd better pull the couch a little closer. :eek:

You and me, both. If that's accurate, then no wonder I'm not as amped up as some other folks are. I'm at least 1.5x their "maximum viewing distance" for all three HDTVs.

MichaelK

09-07-2006, 02:48 PM

... Also wondering if there is any way to set higher priorities for HS shows than over SD shows?

it's pretty simple for season passes since they are keyed to the channel. You just set up all your HD channel SP's first then the SD channel ones.

FOr Wishlists it gets tougher but can get done (but you seem to get duplicates)- for example on my HR10-250: My first SP/wishlist is "Teamname AT" program type HD (or somthing like that). Then all my HD SP's. THen there is a season pass for "teamname AT" events live (or similar) and all my SD season passes.

First think it's gets my HD baseball games. Then HD season bases. Then SD baseball games (but seems to record both the HD version above and the SD version if both exist). Then it gets my SD season passes.

I wish TiVO owuld figure out how to set up season passes for sports teams...

echodave

09-07-2006, 02:55 PM

I wish TiVO owuld figure out how to set up season passes for sports teams...

I've thought that same thing, but it's not exactly a problem with an easy solution. For instance, I'm a huge hockey fan, particularly the Red Wings. However, even local broadcasts jump around - sometimes they're on Fox, sometimes they're on Fox Sports Net, sometimes later in the year NBC picks up some broadcasts, then maybe they're on CBC and should it catch the US or Canada based broadcast of that game, last year there were plenty of games on OLN which meant they might also be on HDNET...and so which one of those should it grab, etc.

MichaelK

09-07-2006, 03:00 PM

You and me, both. If that's accurate, then no wonder I'm not as amped up as some other folks are. I'm at least 1.5x their "maximum viewing distance" for all three HDTVs.

As much as they seem EXTREME I think they are correct.

I had a 33- 35ish inch SD set and decided to change out to HD. I did the math and figured a 42 inch 16:9 was slightly larger then my old set as far as height. So I figured that was good enough and I'd get a little larger. The charts all said I should get a 60 for my room. I thought that INSANE. BUt i got a good deal on a 50 so i went with that. I remember bringing it home and thinking it's awfully big. After a while I realized I really could have gotten the 60 inch and it would have been good.

I tell all my friedns looking for advice that story and they all think I'm insane about what size to get. Then they buy and "undersized" set and months later they tell me I was right they should have gotten bigger.

There's nothign wrong with getting a smaller set, but it's actually somethign of a waste if you sit too far away- the human eye just wont make out the detail. THink of lookign at an eye chart at 20 feet- you see everything. Now I move the eye chart out 100 feet- you probably only see the E. What if I use a smoother font on the E and make it "HD"- wont matter you'll never see it. There's just a limit to the amount of detail a human can see- so at some point there is no sense in getting more detail. Sort of the same goes for digital cameras- if all you ever plan to do is print 3x5's then getting an 8 megapixel camera wont really produce better pictures then like a 2 megapixel. If you blow the same pictures up to 30X50 you will clearly see the details. (ignoring cropping and all that...)

My second set I "undersized" again, but it was becasue that was the only size that would fit on the peice of wall I had. Just going by the height again, a 32 inch HD was taller then the set it replace- I went with a 37 to fit the space, but probably a 42-50 inch would be better. I actually watch only SD on that set(waiting for the S3 to come down in price or some other miracle...) and I cant see the differnce from were I sit. When I walk closer it looks horrid but from where i see my eye's blend all the blockiness and so be it.

When time comes to replace the first on in the living room, I'll personally be followign the chart and getting the billboard sized set.

MichaelK

09-07-2006, 03:06 PM

I've thought that same thing, but it's not exactly a problem with an easy solution. For instance, I'm a huge hockey fan, particularly the Red Wings. However, even local broadcasts jump around - sometimes they're on Fox, sometimes they're on Fox Sports Net, sometimes later in the year NBC picks up some broadcasts, then maybe they're on CBC and should it catch the US or Canada based broadcast of that game, last year there were plenty of games on OLN which meant they might also be on HDNET...and so which one of those should it grab, etc.

Myself, I'd rather set up the 5 or 10 season passes rather then the current method. WIth Hockey a wishlist is probably fine (I assume there are no duplicates stations carrying games?)- Same for football (I have a wishlist for my football team and that's perfect). But WIth baseball it's a pain. Many times a season my team plays on the RSN BUT there is a national showing of the game on ESPN2 and even sometimes EPSN. If you dont "scrub" the wishlist to do, then at times the tivo will attempt to record the national feed which is blacked out and you;ll get 3-6 hours of blank screen instead of your game. I usually watch the games a little behind- say an hour or so in, so I dont miss the whole thing, buit it's annoying if one slips by and I cant see what happend the first 3 innings...

Jazhuis

09-07-2006, 03:41 PM

I'd argue there isn't much difference in quality between 720p and 1080i anyway, but it'd be off topic. :)

I wouldn't argue against you, anyway. I just like picking on Fox. :D

btwyx

09-07-2006, 03:58 PM

Without having to dig too hard, how many hours is a S3 (Standard Definition Recording at lowest quality) ???One of the big advantages of the S3 is, for the most part, it does away with quality levels. Only analog inputs, (NTSC OTA or analog cable), actually gets compressed by the box. Everything else (digital cable, ATSC OTA) just records whatever gets sent to it, and plays it back *EXACTLY*. You get capacity like lowest quality recording, and playback better than best quality (its actually perfect quality, as perfect as the signal sent to you anyway).

I think the number is about 200 hours of SD, you can't be exact, because it depends on what bit rate is sent to you.

Bierboy

09-07-2006, 04:03 PM

...I think the number is about 200 hours of SD, you can't be exact, because it depends on what bit rate is sent to you.TiVo's promotional placard at CES2006 said up to 300 hours of SD, so I'm sure you're in the ballpark.

btwyx

09-07-2006, 04:12 PM

TiVo's promotional placard at CES2006 said up to 300 hours of SD, so I'm sure you're in the ballpark.I was going by the same numbers they use for DTiVos (like mine is 515hrs for 600GB), but I really hope the cable company doesn't send as crappy a signal as D* does.

jfh3

09-07-2006, 04:19 PM

For those that can't wait to see it, here's the next best thing:

Video opens with spotlights shining on movie theatre marquee

Sneak Preview Today! (w/ THX logo)

TiVo

NOW PLAYING

IN HIGH DEFINITION !!!

Very Hollywood premier like music playing.

Cut to longer shot of theatre.

Cut to town car pulling to the curb near a red carpet.

Right rear passenger door is opened and the TiVo guy (TG) bounces out on to the red carpet.

TG hops into a theatre lobby. Three women and the concession sales girl all wave hello. Large popcorn machine and bags of popcorn are visible.

TG stops in front of a "Now Showing" poster that has

"Three Thumbs Way Up!" below three Tivo ThumbsUp! symbols, next to the new HD Tivo logo. At the bottom of the poster is "TiVo. HD" with Tivo written in color and "Series 3 Digital Media Recorder" below

TG winks at the audience. TG opens the door to an empty theater somersaults down the main aisle.

Cut to view of stage.

TG in foreground and backflips into the screen while we hear people clapping (remember, the theatre is empty), disappearing into the new HD logo in the center of the screen. We hear the THX theme and the logo moves left and "with THX" appears.

Close up of screen.

Cut to Shanan, who looks great in a dress from a 40's movie premiere, wearing elegant black gloves and standing behind a royal blue background, though the initial shot could've been shot better.

"Ladies and Gentlemen,

Introducing the new Tivo Series 3 HD Digital Media Recorder." over a video of the box with graphics saying "Tivo service in High Definition. The DMR rotates as the new remote crosses in from right to left in the foreground.

"The best way to experience television, now in high definition. Only Tivo can bring you the highest quality High Definition entertainment experience possible. Check it out."

Cut to more video of DMR and remote. Shanan voice over:

"Now you can watch your favorite digital cable programs in high definition whenever you want.

Whether you're watching your favorite sports or a favorite film, prepare for an HD experience that's going to rock your home theatre.

It's the worlds' first and only HD recorder with THX certification. What does that mean? It means no compromise when it comes to sound or picture. The quality of your recordings will stay true to the original broadcast, so you always get the high definition experience as it was intended.

Engineers at THX agree - if you have an HD TV, the Series 3 is a must have.
Two tuners record two shows at the same time, and, go ahead, watch a third prerecorded show while you're at it.

Videophiles will love it when I say this - the Series 3 HD box provides an all digital connection to your high end display.

With broadband, you'll also have access to Tivo's advanced features, including online scheduling, digital photos, music, internet radio, and more.

And how about this? It's sleek, it's glossy, it's the new Tivo remote designed especially for the Tivo Series 3. Backlit for your viewing pleasure, and, it's a learning remote so it's super easy to configure for your TV.

Check this out - the high quality front panel display shows what's being recorded, even when the TV is off. And since silence is golden when it comes to home theartre, it also sports a custom vibration dampening system which makes it the world's [whispers] quietest DVR [endwhisper]!

The Tivo Series 3 HD box works with digital cable and is supported by all major cable providers.

So, don't compromise when it comes to your home theatre. Get the very top of the line sound, the highest quality picture and the Emmy award winning Tivo service all in one incredible box.

Only with Tivo. Buy your Tivo Series 3 HD DMR today at tivo.com."

Cut back to marquee.

"Buy it Now!"

WWW.TIVO.COM

1-877-BUY-TiVo

End credits.

While Shanan is talking, there is overlaid video of Tivo Central, the Now Playing list, lots of pictures of the DMR and remote, video of THX engineers, and the various broadband features.

Up to 25 hours in High Definition, Up to 300 hours in Standard Definition.

-------------------------------------------------------

Not going to transcribe the $199 offer video offer, but it's in a similar style with Shanan and targeted for "our some of our most loyal customers".

DancnDude

09-07-2006, 04:25 PM

I don't have an HD set yet, and I never really noticed the difference between SD and HD until I was at a bar that had both. Across the room, you could still see the HD set's picture clearly and the SD TV's showing the same basketball game were blurry. This is what made me excited to get one.

smak

09-07-2006, 04:35 PM

I don't know if this situation has been mentioned here in this long thread, but i'll bring it up.

This is a scenario I can see happening, including with myself.

I have two lifetimed series 2's.

I buy a series 3 for $800 (maybe with a $150 rebate). I transfer one series 2 to the series 3 for $200.

Now, I don't really need EITHER of my series 2's. Of course, some people have them in different rooms, but i just use the 2nd one for extra storage.

So now, I have 1 80 hr series 2 with lifetime to sell, and 1 80 hour series 2 with 1 year service to sell.

So that's going to get me back a huge chunk of that $1000. I may end up getting the series 2 for as low as $300 total, and still have 2 tuners and a ton of storage space.

-smak-

classicX

09-07-2006, 04:49 PM

Here's (http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html) one!

That must be a joke. It said I need a 143 inch screen at my viewing distance to view HD. That's just bollacks - I can see the difference between HD and SD just find on my 50" screen.

It also said the maximum viewing distance from my screen was 6.5 feet. You MUST be kidding me. I prefer to not have to turn my head to see the whole screen, TYVM.

I think this one (http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/home/tv_faq.html) is a bit closer to reality.

MickeS

09-07-2006, 04:55 PM

That calculator linked to by TiVo Troll seems perfectly accurate to me.

ckelly33

09-07-2006, 05:25 PM

The following is a quote from TiVoPony this past spring:

Q. Can I transfer my Product Lifetime service contract to new hardware?

A. For Product Lifetime, the answer is no, just like today. This isn't really part of our announcement and the rules haven't changed, but since this is a frequently asked question I'm including it here. Product Lifetime is always tied to the specific box that you activated, as defined in the terms of the Product Lifetime Description: http://www.tivo.com/0.4.asp

So which is it? Can I transfer my 2002 "product" lifetime to a S3 or not? Has something changed that I am missing with this anouncement or is this the same deal that was discussed back in March/April of this year (which doesn't include "product" lifetime warranties)?

echodave

09-07-2006, 05:27 PM

So which is it? Can I transfer my 2002 "product" lifetime to a S3 or not? Has something changed that I am missing with this aanouncement or is this the same deal that was discussed back in March/April of this year (which doesn't include "product" lifetime warranties)?

This appears to be a limited-time offer in conjunction with the Series 3 release, so it's not an "either/or" situation - it's an exception to the rule. You can't transfer from a series 1 to a new series 2, or from one series 2 to another series 2, only from an existing machine to a new series 3.

eisenb11

09-07-2006, 05:27 PM

jfh3,

Hmm, is that video currently playing?

I went to the website, but couldn't find a way to buy it...?

echodave

09-07-2006, 05:30 PM

jfh3,

Hmm, is that video currently playing?

I went to the website, but couldn't find a way to buy it...?

- The video just downloaded with yesterday's updates. It doesn't appear to be accessible via the actual interface...yet.

- They're not for sale...yet.

eisenb11

09-07-2006, 05:31 PM

Ah ok, that makes sense.

I wasnt sure if the video was actually playing or if he cheated to get to it :)

jfh3

09-07-2006, 05:50 PM

Ah ok, that makes sense.

I wasnt sure if the video was actually playing or if he cheated to get to it :)

I didn't "cheat" any more than the original poster did ... :)

Who knows when the videos will be "visible" in the Showcase.

One of the items in the show appeared today as part of a gold star showcase (CBS Fantasty Football), so it might be soon. I'd be surprised if we didn't see these videos in the next week

russwong

09-07-2006, 05:54 PM

I was wondering if people were taking into account the costs to get cable cards from the cable company?

Does your cable company charge?

I have Comcast in the bay area and I believe it's $6.95 per cable card, as it acts as a receiver. So that's an additional $14 bucks per month to use a Series 3 if using both cable cards.

I'm assuming based on the description, that it cant not record unencrypted digital channels, that would allow me to bypass the cable card. Any clarification on that?

What's the thought on this new monthly service fee on top of either the S3 transfer deal or signing up a new S3?

maki

09-07-2006, 05:56 PM

11 pages?!

ThomC

09-07-2006, 06:00 PM

Can I buy someone else's lifetime S1 or S2 sub and then turn around and get the S3 deal?

eisenb11

09-07-2006, 06:11 PM

russwong,

My area is TWC. My neighbor got a CC installed in his TV and it was only costing him like $1.50/month.

maki

09-07-2006, 06:16 PM

TWC http://www.timewarnercable.com/CustomerService/FAQ/TWCFaqs.ashx?faqID=683&MarketID=25

lessd

09-07-2006, 06:19 PM

Can I buy someone else's lifetime S1 or S2 sub and then turn around and get the S3 deal?

Yes but the cost is about the same as a E-Bay gift card for a series 2. Now for a series 1 you may be able to get a deal. I got $465 for a series 2 40h unit with lifetime 3 or so months ago which is about $400 for the lifetime (a Series 2 may get you $65 on E-Bay that does not have lifetime) $400 + $200 = $600 close to the lifetime gift card cost on E-Bay. But a non working series 1 with lifetime..maybe a deal.

eisenb11

09-07-2006, 06:29 PM

If you pick your sources carefully you can still find deals.

Stay away from eBay, A/V sites (like here), and the like. People on there know what's up and know that they are worth a lot.

Try things like local classifieds, lesser known sites, usenet, etc...

I picked up a Series 1 w Lifetime locally yesterday for $40 by doing this.

jeffrypennock

09-07-2006, 06:31 PM

I have TWC Houston. I THINK it's only like $1.99/card/mo. I called last night and confirmed that I can go pick up the CC at the counter...no installation fee or truck roll required HERE. But I know this varies from company to company and market to market.
...for what it's worth.

eisenb11

09-07-2006, 06:38 PM

Not bad Jeff!

Im in the LA area... Apparently they require a rollout here, but there's no installation fee.

jfh3

09-07-2006, 06:39 PM

I have Comcast in the bay area and I believe it's $6.95 per cable card, as it acts as a receiver. So that's an additional $14 bucks per month to use a Series 3 if using both cable cards.

No. If you have digital service already with Comcast, the $6.95 is included in the service. You only have to pay again if you are also keeping the cable box. As for the second card, if you use the language on Comcast's site, it should be free, since it's for programming on the same outlet.

I'm assuming based on the description, that it cant not record unencrypted digital channels, that would allow me to bypass the cable card. Any clarification on that?

You wil be able to record unencrypted digital channels without needing a cable card. Whether you can map those channels to the Tivo guide is unknown.

What's the thought on this new monthly service fee on top of either the S3 transfer deal or signing up a new S3?

If you take the transfer deal, there is NO monthly service fee on the S3.

m_jonis

09-07-2006, 08:32 PM

Hmmm, makes me wonder. Take my existing Lifetime series 2, transfer to Series for $200. (get about 26 months out of it). By then, I'm forced to sell my series 3 because of SDV (and maybe MAYBE by then a Series 3.5/4.0 comes out with CC 2.0)

Then get rid of my other series 2 monthly ($6.95/month) and get a DT model (same fee).

For some reason I think I'm better ahead selling my series 2 lifetime on eBay, buying a Series 2 DT and waiting a few months for the Series 3 to price drop and buy it and pay just the $6.95/month for that as well.

Or am I missing something here?

maki

09-07-2006, 08:45 PM

jcblack

09-07-2006, 08:45 PM

You aren't transferring lifetime for $200, as a reward for cancelling your s1/s2 lifetime you get to buy an s3 lifetime for $200. I don't know. I'm not about to give up my lifetime on my S1 (no, I don't really need 2 tivos so I won't be "transferring" and then going monthly on my hacked s1).

cheerdude

09-07-2006, 09:12 PM

Also... while nothing has been said one way or another - This is all assuming that the monthly fee for the Series 3 will be the 6.95/12.95 as the other models are.

maki

09-07-2006, 09:13 PM

mattack

09-07-2006, 10:07 PM

The Series will work without a Cable Card but in that case it will do no more then a Series 2 DT (The Series 2 DT will run an external cable box and the Series 3 will not do that) and record (up to two programs at the same time) the first 99 analog channels of your cable system.

Well, it will record OTA digital and unencrypted cable digital (QAM) channels. That's more than the series 2 DT.

I don't even have an HDTV, but this offer is still compelling to me. I'll do more analysis after the official rollout, if there is a mailin rebate that will still apply, etc.. But I'm one of those who will gamble/pay a possibly illogical amount now in return for no extra monthly payment. (Heck, it was the lifetime fee increase from $199 to $249 that got me to actually buy one in the first place... Though I ended up missing the cutoff.. I've still gotten a great deal in retrospect.)

SNJpage1

09-07-2006, 10:13 PM

I have a ser 2 unit that is only 1 yr old. I had an older one that broke down but was replaced by the extented warranty that I had taken out on it and the life time sub was transfered over to it. Originally it was hooked up to the TV of my home theater. However a few months ago I bought a HD plasma. I am renting the comcast DVR and the tivo is now connected to the living room TV. I hate the Comcast DVR and will get the Tivo ser 3 when it comes out. However, I dont think I will tranfer the life time to it. I plan on keeping the ser 2 connected to the living room TV because my wife has a problem using the new plasma. So the ser 3 will only cost me the reduced second unit fee. Transfering the fee would cost me $199 minus the $72 of free one year service fee. If I was getting rid of the ser 2 then it would be worth the money to transfer.

cwoody222

09-07-2006, 10:22 PM

Well, it will record OTA digital and unencrypted cable digital (QAM) channels. That's more than the series 2 DT.

We do not yet know for sure if the Series3 will handle unencrypted digital calbe (QAM) channels.

It has a QAM tuner but it is not yet known for sure whether the S3 will require a cablecard in order to (layman's terms) get the channel guide data to match up with the QAM channel assignments. If it doesn't do that, the channels are worthless for anything other than live watching and manual recording (in which case TiVo will probably ignore them so as to not be confusing).

Personally I hope clear QAM works but I have my doubts.

My cable co doesn't send PSIP data with their clear QAM so they are worthless without the cablecard. That's something TiVo can't control so I wonder if they'll err on the side of caution and require a cablecard for all.

lessd

09-07-2006, 10:32 PM

Well, it will record OTA digital and unencrypted cable digital (QAM) channels. That's more than the series 2 DT.

I don't even have an HDTV, but this offer is still compelling to me. I'll do more analysis after the official rollout, if there is a mailin rebate that will still apply, etc.. But I'm one of those who will gamble/pay a possibly illogical amount now in return for no extra monthly payment. (Heck, it was the lifetime fee increase from $199 to $249 that got me to actually buy one in the first place... Though I ended up missing the cutoff.. I've still gotten a great deal in retrospect.)

The channels that the Series 3 will receive are based on OTA or cable using at least one cable card. You will not be able to use this TiVo as an open QAM tuner as you can do with a CC HD-TV before you put the cable card in. The TiVo setup is exact and will issue the channels for you ZIP and OTA or your ZIP and the cable system you have in your home. You will not be able to tell the Series 3 to go find the open QAM channels on your cable system and you do the assignment. Some people on this form think the Series 3 will be an open tuning system (no other TiVo has been up to this point) they are wrong. TiVo specs are now out and the only three options for the Series 3 are OTA or one or two cable cards or analog cable Series 2 DT equivalent. If anybody had hard information that refutes this information let them show it.

This is a quote directly form the TiVo spec on the Series 3 that's on the TiVo web sight: I can't get the link to work

Will my Series3 HD work with my cable company?
The TiVo Series3 HD will work with all major cable providers. In order to receive HD Digital channels, you will require (1) or (2) CableCARDs. Without CableCARDs, you will still be able to receive standard definition analog channels

tweekerz

09-07-2006, 10:35 PM

lol Tiger. GreedBaY!!!!

Wow, I wake up this morning thinking nothing much is happening, and then I see THIS!

Sucks for me, since I sold my lifetime 540 just last week on Ebay! If I'd known they would do this, I definitely would've held off.

stevereis

09-07-2006, 10:36 PM

Not sure if this is posted anywhere yet but the clip is now on YouTube: Tivo Series 3 HD Lifetime Transfer video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=f6fykyGC17U)

stevereis

09-07-2006, 10:40 PM

Found the Tivo Series 3 HD Commercial (http://youtube.com/watch?v=IOd82BQfmGg) from the same poster.

DancnDude

09-07-2006, 10:40 PM

Interesting that she called it a DMR (Digital Media Recorder) and not a DVR.

tweekerz

09-07-2006, 10:45 PM

She isnt hot, so this is not a vaild question, IMHO

The real question is - Did she sound hot?

drew2k

09-07-2006, 10:50 PM

Interesting that she called it a DMR (Digital Media Recorder) and not a DVR.There's a little bit of a discussion about that over here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4348806#post4348806). I think it's kind of cool - another way for TiVo to distance itself from the rest of the DVRs out there ...

tweekerz

09-07-2006, 10:51 PM

Sorry for the nag, but isn't it

Safe to say???

So it's save to say

HDTiVo

09-07-2006, 10:55 PM

Not sure if this is posted anywhere yet but the clip is now on YouTube: Tivo Series 3 HD Lifetime Transfer video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=f6fykyGC17U)
Thank You !

Bierboy

09-07-2006, 10:57 PM

Yes, thanks! Very entertaining.....and makes me drool even more!

HDTiVo

09-07-2006, 11:01 PM

Yes, thanks! Very entertaining.....and makes me drool even more!
Is that why she was doing that 'down boy' move with her hands during the video?

stevereis

09-07-2006, 11:02 PM

Interesting that she called it a DMR (Digital Media Recorder) and not a DVR.

It's was labelled as such even at CES. Here is a crop of one of megazone's full-res photos...

TiVo Troll

09-07-2006, 11:07 PM

The channels that the Series 3 will receive are based on OTA or cable using at least one cable card. You will not be able to use this TiVo as an open QAM tuner as you can do with a CC HD-TV before you put the cable card in. The TiVo setup is exact and will issue the channels for you ZIP and OTA or your ZIP and the cable system you have in your home. You will not be able to tell the Series 3 to go find the open QAM channels on your cable system and you do the assignment. Some people on this form think the Series 3 will be an open tuning system (no other TiVo has been up to this point) they are wrong. TiVo specs are now out and the only three options for the Series 3 are OTA or one or two cable cards or analog cable Series 2 DT equivalent. If anybody had hard information that refutes this information let them show it.

This is a quote directly form the TiVo spec on the Series 3 that's on the TiVo web sight: I can't get the link to work

Will my Series3 HD work with my cable company?
The TiVo Series3 HD will work with all major cable providers. In order to receive HD Digital channels, you will require (1) or (2) CableCARDs. Without CableCARDs, you will still be able to receive standard definition analog channels

Can you post the link that you can't get to work? What you posted looks like the wording in the popup linked to from here (http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr.asp)?

It's too soon to know for sure whether that wording is definitive or merely a simplified description more restricted than Series 3's actual capabilities. Sony's discontinued single tuner HD DVR which uses CableCARD for scrambled digital channels works fine w/o CC for unscrambled digital channels and can even be manually channel mapped.

If Series 3 is severely limited without a CableCARD, I'll get one or two CC's for it (in my area there's no charge except 15.99 for the install). Right now, all talk about Series 3's capabilities w/o CC is just speculation.

stevereis

09-07-2006, 11:10 PM

Can you post the link that you can't get to work? What you posted looks like the wording in the popup linked to from here (http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr.asp)?
Here is a direct link: TiVo CableCARD FAQ (http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr.faqs.asp#1)

J4yDubs

09-07-2006, 11:13 PM

Interesting that she called it a DMR (Digital Media Recorder) and not a DVR.
My Toshiba TX20 is called a "Digital Media Server" on the box and everywhere else.

John

TiVo Troll

09-07-2006, 11:17 PM

On Teleworld the announcement (http://youtube.com/watch?v=IOd82BQfmGg) played first directly followed by the offer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=f6fykyGC17U).

TiVo Troll

09-07-2006, 11:21 PM

Here is a direct link: TiVo CableCARD FAQ (http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr.faqs.asp#1)

Thanks. That's the exact wording as on the pop-up. Let's see if Reality Bites!

lessd

09-07-2006, 11:22 PM

Can you post the link that you can't get to work? What you posted looks like the wording in the popup linked to from here (http://www.tivo.com/series3hdDvr.asp)?

It's too soon to know for sure whether that wording is definitive or merely a simplified description more restricted than Series 3's actual capabilities. Sony's discontinued single tuner HD DVR which uses CableCARD for scrambled digital channels works fine w/o CC for unscrambled digital channels and can even be manually channel mapped.

If Series 3 is severely limited without a CableCARD, I'll get one or two CC's for it (in my area there's no charge except 15.99 for the install). Right now, all talk about Series 3's capabilities w/o CC is just speculation.

You have the link to the link pop up on Cable Cards

gthassell

09-07-2006, 11:23 PM

Now here's a thought - though I'm pretty sure it won't happen - but wouldn't it be great if Tivo offered the change to use TiVoReward points to do a S1/S2 Lifetime transfer to an S3.

They wouldn't be getting the $199, but certainly would generate a lot of movement from the most loyal (and encouraging) group of fans.....and it would still get lifetime off the S1/S2 boxes and clear a financial obligation (TiVo Reward points) off their books.

Not only that, but it might be a big push to get more S2 subscriptions moving. Right now, there's nothing of significant value in the TiVo Rewards "store" for me - but a Lifetime transfer for points IS something that would further encourage me to get a few more folks signed up to get me enough points.

(Do I hear 25,000 points for a tranfser, please??? :D :D :D )

Just a (very wishful) thought.

megazone

09-07-2006, 11:40 PM

See, to me at least, that reason doesn't have much appeal to me. That's why I have five of the suckers in the first place...if I'm watching something and want to grab something else...well, that's what the other units and being able to transfer over the wireless network are for.If you have 2 S2s in one room, keep in mind you can replace two of them with one S3. Transfer the lifetime from one, and sell the otherone WITH lifetime on eBay. You'd get at least $500 going by what is up there now, perhaps more. So that'd take a big chunk out of the S3 cost. And you might get something for the one with the free year too.

Your Toshiba could lose lifetime and revert to TiVo Basic if you just use it for DVD stuff and don't need the networking.

ufo4sale

09-07-2006, 11:59 PM

here's a question that's probably been answered before but do I need to separate cable lines to record to shows at the same time or can I just split it before it goes into the TiVo?

phox_mulder

09-08-2006, 12:02 AM

Two inputs.
1 Antenna, 1 Cable, split inside to the two tuners.

phox

Saturn

09-08-2006, 12:06 AM

Well, I know what I'm buying myself for Christmas. I just told my wife she doesn't need to worry about a gift for me this year. And I don't even have an HDTV yet. :D

mikesay98

09-08-2006, 12:44 AM

09-08-2006, 12:46 AM

tunnelengineer

09-08-2006, 07:11 AM

Not sure if this is posted anywhere yet but the clip is now on YouTube: Tivo Series 3 HD Lifetime Transfer video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=f6fykyGC17U)

It would have been nice for the guy to actually leave trhe video on youtube. It 's a worthless link now......

greg_burns

09-08-2006, 07:19 AM

It would have been nice for the guy to actually leave trhe video on youtube. It 's a worthless link now......

Yanked. But by whom? hmmm...

greg_burns

09-08-2006, 07:22 AM

cwoody222

09-08-2006, 07:34 AM

It would have been nice for the guy to actually leave trhe video on youtube. It 's a worthless link now......

Dammit, it was playing all jerky on my Mac so I saved the URL to watch today on my PC at work. I figured no way between 11am and 9am EST it would magically disappear :(

jeffrypennock

09-08-2006, 07:45 AM

It would have been nice for the guy to actually leave trhe video on youtube. It 's a worthless link now......
No kidding.

megazone

09-08-2006, 08:05 AM

It would have been nice for the guy to actually leave trhe video on youtube. It 's a worthless link now......I suspect it wasn't pulled by choice - TiVo probably asked/told him to do it.

ah30k

09-08-2006, 08:12 AM

TiVo Troll

09-08-2006, 08:14 AM

You have the link to the link pop up on Cable Cards

As I posted here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4349386&&#post4349386) I'm inclined to agree with you although the current info is sketchy at best. Too bad!

TiVo Troll

09-08-2006, 08:20 AM

I'm sure its copyrighted material that TiVo had pulled (either by threat to the poster or by YouTube itself).

BTW it was pulled at 7:00 am eastern. I watched the first one, the second one was pulled, I went back to the first and it was also then pulled. I never got to see the second.

I'm sure that all of this will be moot, and the Series 3 announcement and Lifetime transfer offer will be on everyone's TiVo within two weeks but I did burn a DVD+R of yesteday's Teleworld, and if it turns out that this offer is a chimera, I've got the evidence that at one time it was in the works.

TiVo Troll

09-08-2006, 08:27 AM

Sorry if it has, but has it been discussed yet whether or not this deal will only be for those who order from TiVo? I get the feeling the commercial/video implies the deal is only for those who order direct from TiVo?

It was definitely implied in the announcement that Series 3's will be ordered at the VIP site. However it doesn't absolutely say that they'll have to be.

Perhaps other sellers will offer better deals before the end of the year if Lifetime upgrades only apply to Series 3 from TiVo's website. But that's not the best way to make a loyal subscriber feel like a VIP.

Ziggy86

09-08-2006, 08:30 AM

Do you need a cable card to use an S3?

cwoody222

09-08-2006, 08:35 AM

I suspect it wasn't pulled by choice - TiVo probably asked/told him to do it.

I've had stuff pulled (a 20 second Americon Idol clip) myself from YouTube. The message displayed is different.

Plus - do you really think that between 8pm and 4pm PST someone at TiVo was that worried and someone at YouTube was there to react? I believe with copyright violations they at least view the clip before yanking it.

The site said it was removed by the user; therefore I think it was removed by the user.

cwoody222

09-08-2006, 08:35 AM

Do you need a cable card to use an S3?

For OTA, no. For analog cable, no. For anything else, yes.

megazone

09-08-2006, 08:46 AM

The site said it was removed by the user; therefore I think it was removed by the user.I'm sure it was - but I could easily believe TiVo contacted the user and asked him to. As to someone at TiVo being up and noticing - hell yes. I've exchanged email with TiVo folks in the middle of the night. They have night owls too. And it was posted here and on blogs (I posted them on TiVoLovers.com), plenty of ways to notice.

Jason Hoover

09-08-2006, 08:47 AM

She isnt hot, so this is not a vaild question, IMHO

How do you know the customer service rep was not hot? Am I missing something? Wasn't this refering to a telephone conversation?

megazone

09-08-2006, 08:48 AM

Do you need a cable card to use an S3?
Not for NTSC or ATSC from antenna, or for analog cable.

You need CableCARD for encrypted, digital cable channels.

What is unknown right now is if you need CableCARD for unencrypted digital cable or if the Series3 supports in-the-clear QAM without the cards.

greg_burns

09-08-2006, 10:41 AM

I'm sure it was - but I could easily believe TiVo contacted the user and asked him to. As to someone at TiVo being up and noticing - hell yes. I've exchanged email with TiVo folks in the middle of the night. They have night owls too. And it was posted here and on blogs (I posted them on TiVoLovers.com), plenty of ways to notice.

You know those guys at Tivo are sitting back and reading these threads having a ball. They probably knew the moment it was posted the same as us. :)

jfh3

09-08-2006, 11:46 AM

Sorry if it has, but has it been discussed yet whether or not this deal will only be for those who order from TiVo? I get the feeling the commercial/video implies the deal is only for those who order direct from TiVo?

The ad says "When you buy the new Tivo Series 3 HD DMR" not "if you buy it from Tivo"

It does say purchase the box from the vip page and "when the box arrives" call the special phone number and we'll make the transfer right then and there.

That implies you have to get the box from Tivo, but also doesn't preclude buying it retail. It's not like they are transferring the service at the time you buy the box - you have to take specific action (the phone call) to do it.

I, for one, certainly hope that's not requirement. However, it may be moot - if Tivo activates the VIP ordering page before Best Buy starts selling the boxes, I'll order at least one box from Tivo anyway. :)

tunnelengineer

09-08-2006, 11:47 AM

How do you know the customer service rep was not hot? Am I missing something? Wasn't this refering to a telephone conversation?

Exactly. I was asking if the customer service rep sounded hot. Not that chick on the Tivo ads. She really kinda scares me. :eek:

shady

09-08-2006, 11:48 AM

You know those guys at Tivo are sitting back and reading these threads having a ball. They probably knew the moment it was posted the same as us. :)

If it really is just a few days to release, I don't think anyone at TiVo is sitting back!!

jfh3

09-08-2006, 11:52 AM

Not that chick on the Tivo ads. She really kinda scares me. :eek:

You realize there are a lot of TivoShanan fans here, right?

Don't be surprised if your Series 3 doesn't work the way you expected.

Bad things might happen if you don't show proper respect to Tivo emloyees, including Shanan ... ;)

johnd7

09-08-2006, 12:52 PM

MichaelK

09-08-2006, 01:15 PM

One of the big advantages of the S3 is, for the most part, it does away with quality levels. Only analog inputs, (NTSC OTA or analog cable),.....

I just realized I never thought about it-

will the series 3 do NTSC OTA also- or just ATSC OTA and analog cable?

No reason it couldn't do NTSC OTA I'd guess except for even more complexity in the channels you recieve area...

cwoody222

09-08-2006, 01:31 PM

Yes, it does NTSC. We've known that since Jan.

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2006/01/hd_tivo_series_.html

MichaelK

09-08-2006, 01:39 PM

Yes, it does NTSC. We've known that since Jan.

http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2006/01/hd_tivo_series_.html

thanks

I was oblivious- I never thought about it

Dan203

09-08-2006, 01:49 PM

classicX

09-08-2006, 02:06 PM

Charter told me that it takes 10 days to get the CableCARDs. So I was thinking about making an appointment today for Monday the 18th. If for some reason the S3 isn't released next week like expected then I'll just cancel.

Dan

Less thinking. More doing.

What are you waiting for?

bubba1972

09-08-2006, 02:08 PM

Dan203, have you heard anything about Charter possibly using SDV? I have Charter in St. Louis and would hate to jump in and get screwed by that.

OldTownTreadles

09-08-2006, 02:12 PM

:up: This is GREAT!!!! Thanks Tivo. :up:

Yep, just saw the same thing.

There were two videos from TiVoShannon announcing the Series 3.

A couple features mentioned...

The new TiVo HD is THX certified.

The new remote is backlit.

The chasis has extra dampening to keep the box quiet.

No mention of box price or availability date.

Now for the big news...

TiVo is allowing current Series 1 or Series 2 lifetime boxes to have the lifetime service transfered to the new Series 3 for a one time charge of $199. They also throw in an additional 12 months of service on the existing box when you pick this option..

Box must be purchased by December 31, 2006 and lifetime transfer by January 31, 2007.

Special hotline to do the transfer 866-424-8486.

www.tivo.com/vip to buy the box (page is not up yet).

Jazhuis

09-08-2006, 02:25 PM

Yes, it does NTSC. We've known that since Jan.

At least until the digital cutover. ;)

mchief

09-08-2006, 02:30 PM

I know this has been discussed and TIVO hopes it's not the case but I have the feeling this whole Cable Card thing with the S3 is going to be a mess. It is going to suck to buy an $800 unit and then have it sitting waiting 2-3 weeks for the cable guy appointment to bring the CC. Earlier this year I could not get Cox to bring me out a CC and an HD DVR. They refused even when I had it escalated up. They said I could not use both on the same TV, I told them that is fine, I will move the box to a different TV, just bring me the CC, they still refused because I already had an HD DVR. This is not going to go well.

Had the same problem with Comcast Alexandria VA. Finally won the HD DVR/cable card war and, quess what, works like a charm. However, yesterday the cable card died. CSR told me that was because you can't have a CC and HD DVR. Some days it just doesn't play to get up. Tech arrived - inserted new CC and back in business.

Asked him about S3 and 2 CCs - his comment was not good. He said Comcast had nothing buy trouble with CCs and was not well equiped to handle them. Expect problems trying to order 3 CCs.

tunnelengineer

09-08-2006, 02:47 PM

The cable companies have trouble with them because they don't try hard enough. They don't make much money on the cards like they do with renting the cable boxes.....

I guarantee most places spend the least amt of effort as possible getting them to work. It's sad, but probably the truth.

I am on my 7th cable card in the last 12 month period. I like cable company visits.........

Also, no disrespect but I do not get worked up over the tivo lady. She is definitely not my cup of tea. To each their own though. "scares me" may be a bit harsh, I guess "don't prefer her type" would be a better term. Although I probably wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers....................

Dan203

09-08-2006, 02:53 PM

Dan203, have you heard anything about Charter possibly using SDV? I have Charter in St. Louis and would hate to jump in and get screwed by that.

Nope. According to one of the cable gurus here on the forum they're not even looking at it yet. So we should be safe for at least a few more years.

Dan

btwyx

09-08-2006, 03:21 PM

The cable companies have trouble with them because they don't try hard enough. They don't make much money on the cards like they do with renting the cable boxes.....I'd be very surprised if cable companies made money renting cable boxes. I thought they were a loss leader needed to sell programming. The money's in the programming not the hardware, in that case they should be eager to provide cable cards because they're cheaper.

However, if the cable cards can't do PPV, which is the most profitable programming to sell, they may have reservations. In which case they should make it possible to do PPV with cable cards, which is, in theory, trivial.

Dan203

09-08-2006, 03:27 PM

However, if the cable cards can't do PPV, which is the most profitable programming to sell, they may have reservations. In which case they should make it possible to do PPV with cable cards, which is, in theory, trivial.

Actually it's far from trival! The CableCARD 2.0 spec's main purpose is to work out the bidirectional communication portion of CableCARD so that services like PPV and VOD are possible via CableCARD devices. They have been fighting over the implimentation of the CC2.0 spec for almost 3 years now and it's still not finalized. The biggest argument is that the cable companies want to use a technology called OCAP for all bidirectional services. OCAP basically allows the cable company to download software onto a 3rd party box and present their own UI for accessing these features. CE manufacturers don't want this because they want to be able to access these feature from their own UI so as not to confuse users and so that they can retain their competitive edge.

Dan

btwyx

09-08-2006, 03:42 PM

Actually it's far from trival! The CableCARD 2.0 spec's main purpose is to work out the bidirectional communication portion of CableCARD so that services like PPV and VOD are possible via CableCARD devices.You don't need bi-directional communication to do PPV, you just need an alternative back channel and the imagination to use it. If you think "I need bidirectional comunication to do PPV" they of course its going to be impossible.

However, I do PPV quite a bit without bidirectional comminication. I go look on DirecTV's web site for a PPV. I order it on the website. D* sends a unidirectional command to my TiVo to enable it to receive the PPV. I record the PPV. I'm happy.

There's abolutely no reason, apart from lack of imagination, why the same solution could not be applied to unidirectional cable card. They already authorise the cable card to receive the channels it can receive, why not one more for 90 mins? Its in the cable companies best interest to do such a thing, if they do I'll buy their high margin PPVs. If they don't I won't and I'll make a point to call them about it, calls cost them.

My cable company already has such a system in place for analog PPV, you just have to do it by phone.

Deacon West

09-08-2006, 03:48 PM

Btwyx, I like the way you think. It is the cable co.s that don't want us thinking out of the box.

Dan203

09-08-2006, 03:52 PM

You don't need bi-directional communication to do PPV, you just need an alternative back channel and the imagination to use it. If you think "I need bidirectional comunication to do PPV" they of course its going to be impossible.

However, I do PPV quite a bit without bidirectional comminication. I go look on DirecTV's web site for a PPV. I order it on the website. D* sends a unidirectional command to my TiVo to enable it to receive the PPV. I record the PPV. I'm happy.

In my area the only regular PPV channels left are sports channels and adult channels. All movie PPV has been moved to VOD, so bidirectional communication is required.

Dan

btwyx

09-08-2006, 03:59 PM

In my area the only regular PPV channels left are sports channels and adult channels. All movie PPV has been moved to VOD, so bidirectional communication is required.There's still no reason, apart from lack of imagination, why the demand (the D in VOD) can't come from a different channel than a back channel on the cable. It could still be ordered on the website/over the phone and the box told where to find it in the data stream.

As I understand it, from a freind who has a VOD system, all VOD is a set of random channels where demanded content is sent. You can snoop on what is being currently VODed. If a dumb cable bos can see VOD content someone else has ordered, why can't a TiVo record something you have ordered?

HDTiVo

09-08-2006, 04:11 PM

apart from lack of imagination,
The world as we know it would collapse without lack of imagination.
:eek:

MichaelK

09-08-2006, 05:34 PM

Actually it's far from trival! The CableCARD 2.0 spec's main purpose is to work out the bidirectional communication portion of CableCARD so that services like PPV and VOD are possible via CableCARD devices. They have been fighting over the implimentation of the CC2.0 spec for almost 3 years now and it's still not finalized. The biggest argument is that the cable companies want to use a technology called OCAP for all bidirectional services. OCAP basically allows the cable company to download software onto a 3rd party box and present their own UI for accessing these features. CE manufacturers don't want this because they want to be able to access these feature from their own UI so as not to confuse users and so that they can retain their competitive edge.

Dan

search for dt_Dc's posts. there are boxes TODAY that have cablecard for access control but the proprietary 2-way crap to handle PPV/VOD/SDV.

So they can keep the status quo but buy boxes with 1 way cablecards for access control.

Assuming they dont get the FCC to push back the deadline, it seems that's the way they will go.

MichaelK

09-08-2006, 05:38 PM

here's dt_Dc's explanation...
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4346620&&#post4346620

morac

09-08-2006, 06:38 PM

The more I think about this, the more I wonder how good this deal actually is. On one hand, you plop down $1000 for a S3 and that's it, you have a lifetime S3. On the other hand, if you wait a year, the S3 will probably be available for anywhere from $500 to $600. If you aren't going to rush out and get the S3 right now, you can save around $400 to $500 by waiting till the price drops. At $6.95, barring the money you'd earn from interest or investing, you'd break even in about 5 or 6 years. The S3 might be obsolete by then.

Also if you keep the S2 or S1 you will have to start paying service fees on it in a year, so you'll never recoup your costs unless you cancel the subscription after a year.

If you were going to get a S3 now it is worth it, otherwise not so much.

People doing this because they assume that a lifetime S3 will sell for more later might be in for a shock in the case that the cable industry abandons the cablecard standard completely.

MediaLivingRoom

09-08-2006, 06:49 PM

eisenb11

09-08-2006, 07:03 PM

MediaLivingRoom,

CC2.0 most likely requires different hardware.

I doubt this version of the S3 will ever be CC2.0 compliant.

smak

09-08-2006, 07:06 PM

The more I think about this, the more I wonder how good this deal actually is. On one hand, you plop down $1000 for a S3 and that's it, you have a lifetime S3. On the other hand, if you wait a year, the S3 will probably be available for anywhere from $500 to $600. If you aren't going to rush out and get the S3 right now, you can save around $400 to $500 by waiting till the price drops. At $6.95, barring the money you'd earn from interest or investing, you'd break even in about 5 or 6 years. The S3 might be obsolete by then.

I'd say a ton of people only have 1 tivo.

So, if they want a S3, and don't need to keep their S2 running, they'd still be paying the $12.95 per month.

Not to mention the fact, that their series 2 will have 1 year of service, which even if you value it really low like $4 a month, is still another $50

So selling your series 2 with 1 year service, even for something like $100 covers most of it. And then you're saving the $12.95 too.

It's a good deal in some situations, and maybe not in others.

-smak-

eisenb11

09-08-2006, 07:06 PM

morac,

I don't think it'll be very easy for the cable industry to abandon CC - it is, afterall mandated by the FCC.

How TWC has gotten so far in some areas with SDV is beyond me. I'm sure that if SDV starts becoming enough of a threat, companies like Tivo and Microsoft will take them to court in order to enforce the FCC ruling.

The death of CC is a danger to Tivo with the S3 and is a huge danger to Microsoft with their upcoming CC-compatible Vista Media Center PCs. It is not in a company's best interests to make Microsoft mad!

maelman

09-08-2006, 08:04 PM

I am thinking of purchasing a previously owned Tivo that has a lifetime subscription.

Q1. If it has a broken modem and cannot connect to tivo service is there any reason that i would not be able to transfer the lifetime service that is tied to that box? I am thinking that all i would need is the box id on the back. Is this right?

Q2. Do they care if the service is in my name? Will i need to transfer the Tivo box ownership over in my name?

q3. I am also assuming it doesnt matter what kind of box, like if its a DirectTivo box with lifetime.

Sorry for so many newbie questions in one post... just trying to make sure this works before i plunk down some money to purchase the box.

Thanks!

eisenb11

09-08-2006, 08:06 PM

No one really knows the answers to these questions with a good amount of accuracy. The terms outlined in the announcement are pretty vague.

Rumor has it that DirectTivo units don't count, however... but who really knows....?

Gregor

09-08-2006, 08:07 PM

eisenb11

09-08-2006, 08:11 PM

They do seem to take things off the list at some point, but I think it can get back on by dialing back in.

For example, I just bought a used unit. Called before I bought it to verify the serial and all was good.

Was thinking about buying a second unit. The second one wasn't used for a number of years. When I called about its serial, it was not in there DB.

I hope the S3 is released before my unit it off the list. I cancelled my phone service (cells are so cheap these days) so I have no way of connecting with the unit any more...

09-08-2006, 08:18 PM

A2: The unit should be transferred to your name first. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

A3: Extremely unlikely. Most DirecTiVos with "lifetime" are hacked units anyway.

megazone

09-08-2006, 08:58 PM

Q1. If it has a broken modem and cannot connect to tivo service is there any reason that i would not be able to transfer the lifetime service that is tied to that box? I am thinking that all i would need is the box id on the back. Is this right?Most likely. While lifetime units need to call in every 6 months to sustain MSD on other boxes on the same account, I've never heard of lifetime 'expiring' for not calling in.

Q2. Do they care if the service is in my name? Will i need to transfer the Tivo box ownership over in my name?I *hope* they care! Otherwise you'd be able to 'steal' lifetime from someone if you learned their TSN. Better safe than sorry - transfer it to your name.

q3. I am also assuming it doesnt matter what kind of box, like if its a DirectTivo box with lifetime.Yes, it does matter! There is no such thing as a DirecTiVo box with lifetime! DirecTiVo lifetime accounts are PER DIRECTV ACCOUNT, and NOT tied to a box. It is completely different from the way standalone lifetime works. DirecTV lifetime CANNOT be transferred to a new owner. Years ago DirecTV converted all of their 'lifetime' users into *account* lifetime, not *product* lifetime. So you cannot acquire lifetime by buying a DirecTV box.

Any DirecTV *box* which has supposed lifetime is certainly hacked for theft of service since there is no legitimate way to do this. And that would never entitle you to a transfer.

Willin

09-09-2006, 03:24 AM

On Teleworld the announcement (http://youtube.com/watch?v=IOd82BQfmGg) played first directly followed by the offer (http://youtube.com/watch?v=f6fykyGC17U).
These clips stored on the tivo are named eigershow and eigeroffer. Does anybody know what eiger means? The only place I've found a reference to it is here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4161902&highlight=eiger#post4161902)

btwyx

09-09-2006, 03:34 AM

Does anybody know what eiger means?It means ogre in German and is the name of a mountain in the Alps.

09-09-2006, 03:40 AM

Must be the internal project name.

DCIFRTHS

09-09-2006, 04:14 AM

Must be the internal project name.

Or somebody in TiVo misspelled eager ;)

TechDreamer

09-09-2006, 06:49 AM

The cable companies are going to do a HORRIBLE job handling Tivo and CableCards. I'm personally looking forward to watching the bloodshed. I don't think the Cable companies are ready for the wrath of a pissed off Tivo army.

bicker

09-09-2006, 07:27 AM

TechDreamer

09-09-2006, 10:20 AM

All limitations of CableCard are the fault of the Cable Companies. The Cable monopolies have drug their feet on this stuff for years. I have critisized Tivo on a lot of things, but none of the problems with CableCard are their fault.

jfh3

09-09-2006, 11:59 AM

I don't think the cable companies would even notice the wrath of a pissed off TiVo army. There are so few TiVo owners that would care enough about the intricacies of CableCard, as to barely register. I suspect most TiVo owners who encounter problems with CableCard due to loss of VOD and due to SDV will buy the cable company's argument that the problem (really: limitation) is with the TiVo, and even knowing all the details as I do, I'm not sure I disagree with them.

Of course, if most drink the cable company KoolAid like you apparently have and ignore the fact that it's NOT Tivo that's responsible for the CableCard fiasco, there won't be an army in the first place.

JohnBrowning

09-09-2006, 01:55 PM

I think all the CableCARD FUD is ridiculous! I expect to move my card from my TV to my S3 with no issues. When connecting with Verizon, they wanted NONE of the info out of the TV. They knew what card I had and remotely initialized it. Done. No more issues. I would not be surprised if the card continues to work without VZ intervention when I move it to the S3. If not, one phone call can get it re-init'd. No big deal!

etsolow

09-09-2006, 02:10 PM

I, on the other hand, watched my Charter tech scroll thru TV menus, make phone calls, pull out his hair, make excuses, drive back to the office, wait two days, before the CableCARD in my TV would work. YMMV! :D

MichaelK

09-09-2006, 06:27 PM

verizon= good
Charter= bad

bicker

09-09-2006, 06:59 PM

All limitations of CableCard are the fault of the Cable Companies.Yet they're TiVo's problem. Amazing how fault has little to do with impact.

bicker

09-09-2006, 07:02 PM

Of course, if most drink the cable company KoolAid like you apparently have and ignore the fact that it's NOT Tivo that's responsible for the CableCard fiasco, there won't be an army in the first place.Wow. How incredibly childish and rude.

Get a grip. Even if there was fault to be assessed in this case (there isn't) it would be utterly irrelevant. Fault is never relevant in business. Legal is legal. Profitable is profitable. That's all that matters in business.

jfh3

09-09-2006, 07:09 PM

Even if there was fault to be assessed in this case (there isn't) it would be utterly irrelevant.

Chill. You're the one that brought it up - can't you take a joke?

You essentially said that you'd agree with the cable companies FUD that's it "Tivo's fault" even though you know better. That's pretty mind boggling to me.

bicker

09-09-2006, 07:14 PM

jfh3

09-09-2006, 09:57 PM

TiVo has to be compatible with the distribution mechanisms, not the other way around.

That's one of the reasons Tivo is partnering with the cable companies for software distribution. Without standards that the cable companies refuse to implement, Tivo can never (reasonably) have stand alone hardware that fully supports reality.

With the Series 3, Tivo will have a product that's compatable with the only open-standard distribution mechanism the CE manufacturers and the MSOs have been able to agree on, with the MSOs kicking and screaming the whole way, doing everything they can to defer, derail or destroy the FCC mandate.

Let me see ... Tivo plays by the rules. The MSOs thumb their nose at the rules. And not only is it Tivo's fault they don't play fair, but they have to enforce the rules?

Give me a break.

eisenb11

09-10-2006, 02:08 AM

Jokes are followed by smileys.

I didn't say I agree or disagree with cable companies or TiVO. I'm talking about reality. Reality is that the number of TiVo owners who actually would translate these limitations into action against cable companies is insignficant. TiVo doesn't control the world -- it must live within the environment it finds itself, and that means TiVo is completed dependent on the available means of receiving television programming. TiVo has to be compatible with the distribution mechanisms, not the other way around. The tail doesn't wag the dog.

Wow, are you a CableLabs employee posting incognito?

You really need to do your homework before making statements like these. There are a number of big problems with your argument.

1. CableCard support is mandated by the FCC.

I don't think the cable operators are above the control of the FCC.

2. You're sadly mistaken if you think Tivo is the only one affected by the CableCard fiasco.

You're correct in that Tivo is a small player, but they're not the only player.

First we have the large electronics manufacturers - those being Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, and many many more. They're affected by this because they design CableCard support into their product line. Many people actually don't like dealing with STBs and the option to use a CableCard is feature that helps move units.

Those companies not big enough for you? How about Microsoft? Microsoft has a lot vested in CableCards. They're working on releasing CableCard compatible computers that will run Windows Vista Media Center. HD is the key selling feature of Viste MC, Microsoft isn't going to quietly watch their potential market get decimated by people who don't want to follow the rules.

Not a Microsoft fan? Rumor has it that Apple is working on a media center of some sorts (it's just a rumor, but with Apple these tend to come true). It would be silly to think they would not be interested in CableCard and the HD marketplace - especially considering that Microsoft is going that route. Steve Jobs won't hesitate to whip out his Reality Distortion Field (tm)!

The CableCard fiasco is a big deal and it affects a lot more people and companies than you give credit for... and yes, it is as simple as "who's not following the rules". The FCC set the rules and, as usual, cable providers are dragging their feet and ignoring them.

Fault. Yes there is fault. It's the cable operators' fault.

Until the FCC changes their rules, it's going to be staying this way.

TechDreamer

09-10-2006, 04:44 AM

I certainly hope the tail wags the dog in this case.

DCIFRTHS

09-10-2006, 06:56 AM

Wow. How incredibly childish and rude.

Get a grip. Even if there was fault to be assessed in this case (there isn't) it would be utterly irrelevant. Fault is never relevant in business. Legal is legal. Profitable is profitable. That's all that matters in business.

You forgot ethics (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=ethics) ...

DCIFRTHS

09-10-2006, 07:09 AM

Wow, are you a CableLabs employee posting incognito? ...

If I remember correctly, the claim from the poster you ask this question of does not work in the cable industry :rolleyes: . I have personally found it more satisfying to ignore most of his/her posts than to try and discuss the situation. YMMV :)

bicker

09-10-2006, 07:26 AM

That's one of the reasons Tivo is partnering with the cable companies for software distribution. Without standards that the cable companies refuse to implement, Tivo can never (reasonably) have stand alone hardware that fully supports reality.Absolutely, positively. That's the main point folks need to come to understand, with respect to the S3.

Give me a break.Why? I don't get a break. Why should you (or TiVo) get one? We all are continually faced with difficult propositions. If it was easy, everyone would be making billions of dollars in profit. TiVo is unquestionably between a rock and a hard place, with no effective means of offering a stand-alone product that, as you said, "fully supports reality". Folks considering buying the S3 should know that, up-front.

bicker

09-10-2006, 07:29 AM

Wow, are you a CableLabs employee posting incognito?Typically, when folks say such things, it is because they cannot otherwise defend their positions.

Fault. Yes there is fault. It's the cable operators' fault.No, it's your fault, and my fault. We put the people in office who support the kind of business environment that makes rules that have no staying power -- no relevance to accomplishing what they were ostensibly created to accomplish. We foster the system; we take the blame. Stop trying to foist that blame off on to the cable companies which are following the laws that our representatives appointees created.

Personal accountability. Each and every one of us voters.

bicker

09-10-2006, 07:31 AM

You forgot ethics (http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=ethics) ...Ethics dictate that corporations comply with the law (not what you personally wish was the law) and make all business decisions in the best interests of long-term shareholder value. The manner in which ethics are applied to corporations are through regulation and the free market.

HTH

09-10-2006, 10:30 AM

I transfered lifetime from Series1s to Series2s already (two of them). Then it was free, and I ended up with lifetime on two units that required service to operate and the option to go without service later on two units that didn't require service. (I resubbed them monthly and get the multi-TiVo discount.)

I don't think I'll be paying the same amount I paid for lifetime to lose lifetime on the Series2 units and move them to the Series3, even with transferring the 1-year requirement contract for the new Series3 units back to the Series2. I personally need a sweeter deal, especially to convince me I need more than the 7 TiVos I have.

Bierboy

09-10-2006, 10:47 AM

Jokes are followed by smileys...Hmmm, then how come we don't see a smiley after your user name? (NOTE -- smileys to follow...) :D :D :D

ZeoTiVo

09-10-2006, 12:09 PM

Man you guys seriously need to get your time occupied with a Series 3 in your house :p

AJRitz

09-10-2006, 12:11 PM

Jokes are followed by smileys.

I didn't say I agree or disagree with cable companies or TiVO. I'm talking about reality. Reality is that the number of TiVo owners who actually would translate these limitations into action against cable companies is insignficant. TiVo doesn't control the world -- it must live within the environment it finds itself, and that means TiVo is completed dependent on the available means of receiving television programming. TiVo has to be compatible with the distribution mechanisms, not the other way around. The tail doesn't wag the dog.
You have your tail and dog confused.

There is a government agency, the FCC, that has direct jursidiction over the content providers. That agency has mandated compliance with the Cable Card standard to the content providers.

TiVo is a consumer electronics device. According to the FCC, the cable companies have an affirmative LEGAL obligation to provide Cable Cards, which will decrypt the companies' content when the Cards are installed in ANY standards-compliant consumer electronics device.

Dog = FCC
Tail = Conent providers
Screen Door = Tivo/Consumer electronics devices. TiVo is an innocent bystander to the cable companies obstinate refusal to comply with the LEGAL mandates of the FCC. the content providers are, however, going to find themselves slammed in the screen door if they don't do what the FCC has already ordered them to do.

As for VOD/two-way communications, all I can say is, "who cares." I have TiVo partially because I've never found VOD to be particularly compelling. It's just another distribution method that puts me at the mercy of the content provider. I much prefer the "pull" model to the "push" model. TiVo pulls what I want to watch, and then I watch it when I want to. No need for VOD/PPV.

I guess if I was a big porn consumer I might feel differently, but that was never what had me interested in an S3 TiVo.

jfh3

09-10-2006, 12:33 PM

No, it's your fault, and my fault.

Glad we got that cleared up - so it's NOT Tivo's fault that they don't support the cable company's distribution mechanisms, as you originally indicated, but YOUR fault. :)

(Note that I didn't forget the smiley this time ...)

jfh3

09-10-2006, 12:36 PM

You have your tail and dog confused.

Great post! :up:

eisenb11

09-10-2006, 01:36 PM

Typically, when folks say such things, it is because they cannot otherwise defend their positions.

No, it's your fault, and my fault. We put the people in office who support the kind of business environment that makes rules that have no staying power -- no relevance to accomplishing what they were ostensibly created to accomplish. We foster the system; we take the blame. Stop trying to foist that blame off on to the cable companies which are following the laws that our representatives appointees created.

Personal accountability. Each and every one of us voters.

Well, it's pretty hard to defend a position when all you seem to be interested in is the first line and the last line of a post.

I covered all your points in there... how they're wrong, that is.

On top of that, look at what I put in bold from your post.

It is obvious you didn't read my post because they are not following the law. The FCC is the law and the cable companies are not doing what the FCC says.

I will partly agree that is is your fault, though. It's hard to get support to fix problems when people cover their eyes and ears and yell "la la la la la!" to hide the truth.

dolcevita

09-10-2006, 01:53 PM

Wow, I wake up this morning thinking nothing much is happening, and then I see THIS!

Sucks for me, since I sold my lifetime 540 just last week on Ebay! If I'd known they would do this, I definitely would've held off.

I was planning to do the same since I added a DT this year and also have a lifetimed Humax. A big crunch at work that has had me "burning the midnight oil" meant I didn;t have time -- really glad now!

MichaelK

09-10-2006, 04:30 PM

You have your tail and dog confused.

There is a government agency, the FCC, that has direct jursidiction over the content providers. That agency has mandated compliance with the Cable Card standard to the content providers.

TiVo is a consumer electronics device. According to the FCC, the cable companies have an affirmative LEGAL obligation to provide Cable Cards, which will decrypt the companies' content when the Cards are installed in ANY standards-compliant consumer electronics device.

Dog = FCC
Tail = Conent providers
Screen Door = Tivo/Consumer electronics devices. TiVo is an innocent bystander to the cable companies obstinate refusal to comply with the LEGAL mandates of the FCC. the content providers are, however, going to find themselves slammed in the screen door if they don't do what the FCC has already ordered them to do.
...

I think there is a strong logical argument that the cable industry wags the FCC.

First off the law that required the FCC to get cable to do cablecards is form 1996. It's been TEN years and still cablecards are far from a normal thing.

THe law never stipulated cablecards- merely the law said the fcc should figure out how to make an open system. Who did the fcc choose to creat such a system? IEEE, ISO, a group of all the involved players, any other inpartial thrid party? Nope they allowed cablelabs a cable industry organization to creat standards.

THe original FCC deadline for all cable company boxes to use cablecards was 2005 and TWICE was pushed back by cable. The current date is June/July 2007 and guess what- cable already has the paperwork in to ask for 2009. We'll find out in the next 3 months or so what the answer to that is.

The fcc stands by as the 2-way standard which has become clear is required for the future wallows in a fight between the obvously self motivated CableLabs group and the consumer product manufactrueres (ignoring porn, if your provider chooses to use switched video then 2-way will be required- at least 1 of the major providers plan to go to SV and the others have not yet said one way or the otehr that I am aware).

So, it's tough to look at the histroy of the situation and see the FCC really doing much for the consumer or agains cable in reagards to this whole mess...

bicker

09-10-2006, 05:08 PM

It is obvious you didn't read my post because they are not following the law. They are following the law. (I did read your message. I simply believe you're wrong.) You don't like the way they're following the law. That's tough. Get over it.

I will partly agree that is is your fault, though. How childish. My point was clearly that we all bear responsibility for the laws of our land, and the way in which our halls of government administer them. Are you so craven that you cannot accept your part of this shared responsibility? Such an attitude disgusts me.

tgewin

09-10-2006, 05:51 PM

eisenb11

09-10-2006, 06:30 PM

They are following the law. (I did read your message. I simply believe you're wrong.) You don't like the way they're following the law. That's tough. Get over it.

How childish. My point was clearly that we all bear responsibility for the laws of our land, and the way in which our halls of government administer them. Are you so craven that you cannot accept your part of this shared responsibility? Such an attitude disgusts me.

While I agree that we do have an indirect effect on laws through the election of representatives, I disgree with what you're getting at.

I, personally, believe that most political clout is held by businesses through lobbyists and legal action. I also realistic in understanding that most matters of this sort are solved through legal means.

I believe that this will all be sorted out... by the large corporations.

The cable co's are not following the law, what we need it a large organization to take the battle to court.

As I mentioned earlier, there are some big companies that stand a lot to lose by this... I don't think the cable co's will be getting away with this in the long run...

steve614

09-10-2006, 07:36 PM

As everyone can tell from my post count over the years that I've been a member here, I'm hardly one to jump into threads like this, but...

It's a really good thing that this thread is staying on topic and hasn't devolved into a pissing contest about cablecards. There are at least a dozen other threads like that, and I was getting really tired of those threads. :rolleyes: :)

Ditto...

Having said that, everything about this offer tempts me into getting an S3 exept one that didn't get mentioned often ( I read this entire thread, honest! ).

:confused: Will I be able to transfer shows over to my PC as easily as I can with my S2? I need to know! :hoping: :)

MichaelK

09-10-2006, 07:45 PM

BIG GIANT CABLECARD RANT- skip post if you want to avoid it.

While I agree that we do have an indirect effect on laws through the election of representatives, I disgree with what you're getting at.

I, personally, believe that most political clout is held by businesses through lobbyists and legal action. I also realistic in understanding that most matters of this sort are solved through legal means.

I believe that this will all be sorted out... by the large corporations.

The cable co's are not following the law, what we need it a large organization to take the battle to court.

As I mentioned earlier, there are some big companies that stand a lot to lose by this... I don't think the cable co's will be getting away with this in the long run...

here's the problem- the LAW as passed by congress directs the FCC to create regulations to ensure that 3rd party tuners are widely availible for people to buy at retail. By some measures there are less cablecard devices in retail now than in the past and it's all the FCC's fault.

The FCC, in my humble opinion, is not carrying out the law in anything even closely resembling a timely or postive manner. The FCC has repeatedly shirked it's duty to get the cable companies comply with the intent of the law.

The cable companies basially ARE following the regulations that are in effect at the current time, the FCC says the bigger systems must provide one way single stream cable cards to anyone that asks and that they should charge in the ballpark of under 2 bucks to do it. Generally if you take out their incompetence then cable is in compiance with the current regulation.

The fact that it is 10 years after the law passed and thats all the fcc has bothered to enforce buy regulation is a good part of the problem.

It's still not a certainty that the twice pushed back date in mid 2007 is actually the final deadline for cable to deploy cablecards in their own devices.

There is no regulation at all from the FCC that I am aware of that mandates 2-way cablecards at ANY time in the future. Without that, cablecard is of limited use, so the device manufacturers wont be in a rush to produce products and it will be difficult to find cablecard devices at retail. Comcast sets records on a regular baseis for VOD- what good are consumer devices that cant get VOD in the long term. What good ar econsumer devices that cant get switched video in the future when Time warner at least plans to use that? Take out time warner/ directv/ dish and cablecard tuners are only worthwhile to like half (give or take 10%) of the TV households. If other cable companies move to switched video even less of the country has a use for one way cablecard- subtract people who care for vod or ppv and the number of people that could use cablecard 1-way devices is a smaller fraction of the households with TV's.

unless sony, panasonic, and the other big guns decide to sue the fcc for not enforcing the law as they should, then cablecard may not be widely availible in retail for much longer...

jeffrypennock

09-10-2006, 08:16 PM

The FCC, in my humble opinion, is not carrying out the law in anything even closely resembling a timely or postive manner.
Unless sony, panasonic, and the other big guns decide to sue the fcc for not enforcing the law as they should, then cablecard may not be widely availible in retail for much longer...

I agree with what you said (including statements not quoted above). However, we're not dependant on Sony or panasonic to "sue" the FCC. TiVo can appeal to FCC to better enforce the law and can request action be taken against noncompliant cable companies. If the FCC shirks their responsibility to the extent that they're violating regulations and policy, then that sounds like just the sort of thing that a person or company could request a hearing before an Administrative Law Judge for.

HDTiVo

09-10-2006, 08:26 PM

Yeah, right, SDV is not legal. :rolleyes:

eisenb11

09-10-2006, 09:20 PM

MichaelK,

I think we're on the same page.

Just for clarification, I'm referring to CableCard 1.0 devices (not CableCard 2.0).

While I'd love to see CC 2.0 support, the current intent of the FCC mandate involves CC 1.0.

As I see it, VOD, PPV, etc are value-added services who won't be supported until CC 2.0. That's ok in my book as long as long as the damage is limited to these services. When CC 2.0 is released we may regain these value-added services.

My fear is with the potential switch to SDV. With no released CC 2.0 spec, SDV will result in the opposite direction where we risk losing what limited things we can do now with CC 1.0 - any channel added or moved to a SDV line up becomes a bi-directional channel and, hence, worthless with CC 1.0 devices.

The net result of CC 1.0 is a loss in ground for the CableCard using consumer - not a gain and not even breaking even ground.

This, IMHO, is against the intent of the FCC mandate where the general purpose is more freedom for the consumer.

This area is ripe for someone to step in and begin the fight... be it Tivo, Microsoft, Sony, whomever.

Honestly, I don't think Sony will join this fight because they have a vested interest in the STB market-place.

Tivo may, but I think it is questionable because DVR companies are at the mercy of the media distribution companies who love challenging various DVR aspecs in the court room (whether or not they win they can waste a lot of time and money). I don't think Tivo wants to make them mad.

If I were a betting man, I'd almost place my money on Microsoft. They've got the power, the resources, and a vested interest in CableCard. Now if only they can ever get Vista done and released so the cable companies can become a threat to Vista Media Center... :)

morac

09-10-2006, 09:29 PM

[B]There is no regulation at all from the FCC that I am aware of that mandates 2-way cablecards at ANY time in the future. Without that, cablecard is of limited use, so the device manufacturers wont be in a rush to produce products and it will be difficult to find cablecard devices at retail.
Most of the big name brands have opted to cut back or eliminate the number of TV models this year that are cablecard compatible. They don't see that it's worth it to add CC support to their TVs when most people who would use a CC would also end up getting a box for VOD. It's like a HDTV monitor versus one with a built in tuner, most people opt for the cheaper version without the built in tuner.

Of course the S3 TiVo is different. It can't work with cable without a CC unless you opt to go all analog, but then why buy a S3. Analog cable is a dying breed anyway. In other words TiVo has a lot more to lose than TV manufacturers.

jeffrypennock

09-10-2006, 09:36 PM

In other words TiVo has a lot more to lose than TV manufacturers.
I think that's why they'll see to it that they don't loose while most other forces in the market (users, manufacturers) have been pretty passive.

eisenb11

09-10-2006, 10:28 PM

I think user passivity will change once Windows Vista comes out (and if Apple releases a media center). I doubt Tivo/Tivo users are enough of a force in themselves.

Morac has a good point about what CableCard means to the TV companies.

As far as the electronics manufacters and most users are concerned all a CableCard does is essentially remove the need for 1 more remote control sitting on the coffee table and another box on the shelf.

I guess if you're not doing a DVR, CableCard really isn't a big deal.

So I guess this really will fall into the realm of the likes of Tivo, MS, and maybe Apple to take care for us.

No idea where ReplayTV stands these days. They're making analog DVR software from last I heard... no clue if they intent to get into the digital realm in the future...

DCIFRTHS

09-10-2006, 10:32 PM

jeffrypennock

09-10-2006, 10:34 PM

I doubt Tivo/Tivo users are enough of a force in themselves.
You don't have to collect a certain number of signatures or something like that. In a case like this, you don't even have to convince 12 jurors. You just have to convince one judge that the FCC/Cable companies aren't enforcing/following the law.

DCIFRTHS

09-10-2006, 10:49 PM

... I guess if you're not doing a DVR, CableCard really isn't a big deal.

So I guess this really will fall into the realm of the likes of Tivo, MS, and maybe Apple to take care for us. ...

I won't consider spending my money, on the next TV I purchase, if it doesn't have a CableCARD slot.

ingenue007

09-11-2006, 12:01 AM

Hehe, I just picked up a used Sony Series 1 with lifetime for 200 dollars. I already have a series 1 w/lifetime (got it for 130 dollars). I think I'm gonna hold onto these two until the promotion for transfer is officially released and then sell on ebay. I predict *any* unit with lifetime will be selling for at least 500+. That would nicely offset the cost of buying a new series 3.

Oh I called Tivo to find out when my Tivo's were activated and asked thme about this new promotion. They said it is definately valid but the CSR didn't know when it would go live officially. I asked him if I could buy a Tivo at the store like best buy and call them to transfer for 199. He said yeah. I aske him if rebates would be valid if there were rebates. He said that he thinks the rebates would be void due to the transfer. So there you go. I don't trust CSRs very much....half the time they tell me wrong things. Hopefully we can buy instore, take advantage of any instant rebates or those only requiring UPCs, and then transfer.

drew2k

09-11-2006, 12:32 AM

Most of the big name brands have opted to cut back or eliminate the number of TV models this year that are cablecard compatible. ...Where did you find this data? Do you have a chart, link, manufacturer's statements or any comprehensive data that you compiled?I've read several articles over the last several months that have included passages about CE manufacturers scaling back on inclusion of CableCard in their product lines. Some of the reasons cited included the low consumer rate of CableCard usage, the general lack of support from the cable industry, and the manufacturers' desire to lower the manufacturing costs of TVs by leaving CableCard out.

MickeS

09-11-2006, 01:20 AM

They don't see that it's worth it to add CC support to their TVs when most people who would use a CC would also end up getting a box for VOD.

Is VOD really that big a draw for the individual consumers? I think I've ordered VOD twice in 8 years... and that was over the phone.

aaronwt

09-11-2006, 01:53 AM

With the new On Demand you have hundreds of movies to choice from. My parents, one year ago said they would never use ON Demand, that it was a waste. Now they can't watch TV without it. You can watch some of the network shows you missed plus you can chose from hundreds of free movies and even many pay movies. They don't have a DVR so they end up using the On Demand alot now. Since it's streaming from a server you can still pause, Fast forward, rewind, just like a DVR but with a tiny box since it doesn't need all the extra equipment a DVR needs. I could see how I might use On Demand, but only HD, but it isn't necessary for me.

eisenb11

09-11-2006, 02:18 AM

You don't have to collect a certain number of signatures or something like that. In a case like this, you don't even have to convince 12 jurors. You just have to convince one judge that the FCC/Cable companies aren't enforcing/following the law.

I'm aware of that, but convincing that one judge won't be cheap, hence why I put it out of the range of the consumers.

Like any corporate battle, you're going to have a long drawn out battle. Then if you win, there's a good chance of an appeal... rinse and repeat a few rounds then you get your conclusion.

Unless you're uber rich and with plenty of time on your hands, I think this is out of the realm of us "mortals" :)

eisenb11

09-11-2006, 02:26 AM

Hehe, I just picked up a used Sony Series 1 with lifetime for 200 dollars. I already have a series 1 w/lifetime (got it for 130 dollars) ... I predict *any* unit with lifetime will be selling for at least 500+. ...

I'm not so sure of that. Remember that you still have to dump in another $199 in order to do the transfer.

So $500+ w $199 = $699+

If you buy service in 3 year chunks normally (best deal) you're talking a minimum of $699/$10.25 = 68 months = 5.7 years in order to break even.

If you're on a multi-unit plan you're talking $699/$6.99 = 96.8 months = 8 years in order to break even.

I'm guessing that the actual value of a S1/Lifetime at around $250-$300. Take that and add $199 and the numbers look a little nicer.

Paying any more is insane... but then again... I've seen crazier on ebay! :)

Hehe, I picked up a Sony S1 w Lifetime for $40 last week :D

bicker

09-11-2006, 07:18 AM

I, personally, believe that most political clout is held by businesses through lobbyists and legal action.A system which we permit to continue. Businesses cannot vote.

The cable companies basially ARE following the regulations that are in effect at the current time, the FCC says the bigger systems must provide one way single stream cable cards to anyone that asks and that they should charge in the ballpark of under 2 bucks to do it. Precisely. Completely legal. And a reflection of what we-the-people would have them do.

Most of the big name brands have opted to cut back or eliminate the number of TV models this year that are cablecard compatible. My brand-new Samsung HDTV doesn't support CableCard, even though last year's model of my set did. Of course the S3 TiVo is different. It can't work with cable without a CC unless you opt to go all analog, but then why buy a S3. Again, precisely. That's the whole crux of the issue. TiVo stepped in mud, here, by not designing the S3 to support STBs. CableCard purity is worthless if being beholden to CableCard means you end up with an $800 paper weight.

jeffrypennock

09-11-2006, 08:28 AM

I'm not so sure of that. Remember that you still have to dump in another $199 in order to do the transfer.

So $500+ w $199 = $699+

If you buy service in 3 year chunks normally (best deal) you're talking a minimum of $699/$10.25 = 68 months = 5.7 years in order to break even.

If you're on a multi-unit plan you're talking $699/$6.99 = 96.8 months = 8 years in order to break even.

I'm guessing that the actual value of a S1/Lifetime at around $250-$300. Take that and add $199 and the numbers look a little nicer.

Paying any more is insane... but then again... I've seen crazier on ebay! :)

Hehe, I picked up a Sony S1 w Lifetime for $40 last week :D
I would encourage you to read the Administrative Law Act. There's nothing drawn out or expensive about the due process hearings there.

sommerfeld

09-11-2006, 08:48 AM

You just have to convince one judge that the FCC/Cable companies aren't enforcing/following the law.
No, that only gets you a win during round one. The stakes are high enough that the case would likely be appealed (just as it's being appealed in Tivo vs Echostar), and that gives several more rounds:

- you have to convince 2 of 3 judges (circuit court)
- a majority of the whole circuit (if they agree to hear "en banc")
and then, if the losing side convices the supreme court that the case is interesting:
- 5 of 9 supreme court justices.

This will all take years, during which time any lower-court judgements will likely be stayed pending appeal.

jeffrypennock

09-11-2006, 10:59 AM

No, that only gets you a win during round one. The stakes are high enough that the case would likely be appealed (just as it's being appealed in Tivo vs Echostar), and that gives several more rounds:

- you have to convince 2 of 3 judges (circuit court)
- a majority of the whole circuit (if they agree to hear "en banc")
and then, if the losing side convices the supreme court that the case is interesting:
- 5 of 9 supreme court justices.

This will all take years, during which time any lower-court judgements will likely be stayed pending appeal.
That's only if the judge doesn't rule in favor of TiVo. I really, really don't think the FCC gets to appeal to the circuit court. Though I don't know much about the administrative adjudication process for the FCC as I do for other government agencies like ICE and SSA. I'm sure the FCC can ask the ruling be reviewed and it can be remanded by a review panel (but that isn't done by the circuit court; it's done by ICE and SSA for administrative hearings for those agencies) back to the ALJ but the ALJ can rule the same way again and they can't force the ALJ to reverse him/herself and they can't shop the case around to a more favorable ALJ (thus protecting judicial independence). Now if ALJ ruled in favor of the FCC, then the next court of appeal for TiVo would be federal circuit court. However, the FCC probably doesn't have that kind of a right to appeal (assuming the FCC administrative legal process is consistent with other the administrative adjudication process of other agencies) because the administrative hearings are theoretically intrinsically less adversarial than criminal or civil hearings and the ALJ adequately represents the agency's interests (at least that's how it works with SSA hearings). This is also one of the reason's why it's much cheaper than a hearing in the ciruit court system. And I can't imagine that there's that much of a case backlog for the FCC's ALJs, so that's why I don't think this would be nearly as slow or expensive as TiVo's battle with Echostar.

tunnelengineer

09-11-2006, 11:17 AM

So anyway, since we are sticking on the topic subject so well............................

jfh3

09-11-2006, 12:01 PM

Hehe, I picked up a Sony S1 w Lifetime for $40 last week :D

Congrats! What amounts to $239 for lifetime on a Series 3.

I don't know where the lifetime prices will settle, but you can pretty much guarantee that you got the last eBay deal in that range ... ;)

eisenb11

09-11-2006, 12:15 PM

Congrats! What amounts to $239 for lifetime on a Series 3.

I don't know where the lifetime prices will settle, but you can pretty much guarantee that you got the last eBay deal in that range ... ;)

Speaking of which, what's with all those units on eBay with lifetime "Tivo Basic Service"?

Is this confusing "seller speak" for "lifetime Tivo service" or is there some lower tier of service out there - one that probably won't count towards a transfer?

Oh and I think eBay is onto the value of S1/Lifetimes... I got mine locally :)

I checked last night and there were a bunch of S1/Lifetimes on eBay for a decent current price, but they still had quite a bit of time to go...

zachcarter

09-11-2006, 12:35 PM

I just picked up a "broken" series 2 with lifetime for $120 off craigslist. I'm hoping I can fix it, but if I can't, does anyone anticipate any problems getting the lifetime transferred from a box that won't boot up and call in properly?

TexasAg

09-11-2006, 12:46 PM

Speaking of which, what's with all those units on eBay with lifetime "Tivo Basic Service"?

Is this confusing "seller speak" for "lifetime Tivo service" or is there some lower tier of service out there - one that probably won't count towards a transfer?

Oh and I think eBay is onto the value of S1/Lifetimes... I got mine locally :)

I checked last night and there were a bunch of S1/Lifetimes on eBay for a decent current price, but they still had quite a bit of time to go...

Some boxes like DVD boxes with Tivo came with "Tivo Basic" service free. Not real sure what that included, but I assume (since Tivo wasn't being paid for "real" lifetime service) that service on these boxes is not transferrable.

I just picked up a "broken" series 2 with lifetime for $120 off craigslist. I'm hoping I can fix it, but if I can't, does anyone anticipate any problems getting the lifetime transferred from a box that won't boot up and call in properly?

I don't think that it needs to dial in at all. The "6 month" dial in requirement was so that you keep any MSD you might have. Lifetime service doesn't "expire" if the box fails to dial in for 6 months. You should just be able to call Tivo with the TSN at the appropriate time to transfer the lifetime service to an S3.

ingenue007

09-11-2006, 01:03 PM

shady

09-11-2006, 01:28 PM

all tivo needs is the number from the back of your tivo to verify if it is lifetime.

once this ad hits nationally, tivo prices with lifetime will sky rocket. people won't buy it for the tivo...they'll buy it to transfer.

But doesn't Lifetime mean "Lifetime of the box", so if the box has expired, then so has your "Lifetime service". It would seem perfectly reasonable to me that TiVo would expect the box to still be able to phone home.

megazone

09-11-2006, 01:45 PM

Speaking of which, what's with all those units on eBay with lifetime "Tivo Basic Service"?

Is this confusing "seller speak" for "lifetime Tivo service" or is there some lower tier of service out there - one that probably won't count towards a transfer?TiVo Basic is included on the Pioneer and Toshiba boxes. It has never been called 'lifetime' - that's misleading seller speak. And it is NOT the same as Lifetime service, it does NOT qualify for this deal.

eisenb11

09-11-2006, 04:04 PM

TiVo Basic is included on the Pioneer and Toshiba boxes. It has never been called 'lifetime' - that's misleading seller speak. And it is NOT the same as Lifetime service, it does NOT qualify for this deal.

Ah, that's what I thought. Guess those guys on eBay with these boxes may be jumping on the "lifetime" bandwagon in hopes someone confuses their box with an actual lifetime box.

TriBruin

09-11-2006, 05:29 PM

Ah, that's what I thought. Guess those guys on eBay with these boxes may be jumping on the "lifetime" bandwagon in hopes someone confuses their box with an actual lifetime box.

Kind of like the people that were selling Xbox 360 boxes for hundreds of dollars hoping that people didn't realize they were not actually receiving an Xbox360

lessd

09-11-2006, 07:25 PM

all tivo needs is the number from the back of your tivo to verify if it is lifetime.

once this ad hits nationally, tivo prices with lifetime will sky rocket. people won't buy it for the tivo...they'll buy it to transfer.

How do you figure the price increase as a Series 2 goes for about $400 more with lifetime on now so you would spend $500 for a series 2 Xfer the lifetime for another $200 for a total of $700, re-sell the series 2 with 1 year of service for about $100 for a lifetime Series 3 cost of $600, about what the gift cards go for.

DLiquid

09-11-2006, 08:20 PM

I've had a broken SVR2000 with lifetime sitting here in my office for ages. Does this mean I might actually be able to get a couple hundred for it on eBay?

ingenue007

09-11-2006, 08:33 PM

i just bought a coupon on ebay for 12 percent off tivos. i hope they have it available before oct.

MichaelK

09-11-2006, 08:47 PM

Yeah, right, SDV is not legal. :rolleyes:

someone said it was illegal?

MichaelK

09-11-2006, 08:51 PM

Where did you find this data? Do you have a chart, link, manufacturer's statements or any comprehensive data that you compiled?

one place:

ny time july 7 article (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/03/technology/03cable.html?ex=1309579200&en=11c77c7074d19c39&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

btwyx

09-11-2006, 10:42 PM

I've now completed part 1 of my master plan. I've bought a lifetime stanalone (Philips Series 1*) from eBay, and transferred the lifetime into my name. (My first SA, I've only ever had DTiVos before.)

Now I just need to get the S3 and transfer the lifetime to it, then sell the Series 1 with the 1 year of service.

Even if the transfer offer doesn't materialise, I'll still get MSD for the S3. $6.95/month is more palatable than $12.95/month. The $12.95/month service was about the only reservation I have with the S3.

*PS: This thing is a brick, it weighs about 20lb, what did they make it of?

09-12-2006, 02:43 AM

then sell the Series 1 with the 1 year of service.

You cannot transfer that unit to another person, so you have to keep it in your account and cancel it after 1 year.

stevereis

09-12-2006, 02:47 AM

Can you transfer that free year to another box, say an S2DT? If so, I would pay the $65 (after rebate from online retailers) to upgrade to an S2DT unit after transferring LT to an S3

09-12-2006, 03:44 AM

You can transfer, but you don't get the rebate.

btwyx

09-12-2006, 04:17 AM

You cannot transfer that unit to another person, so you have to keep it in your account and cancel it after 1 year.Why can't you transfer it? and if you're right, what's the downside, apart from a little hassle?

09-12-2006, 04:19 AM

Why can't you transfer it?

You cannot transfer a non-lifetime subscription to another person.

loubob57

09-12-2006, 08:36 AM

Now that the S3 is up on the TiVo page, which deal do you pick if you intend to transfer lifetime?

I guess I'll call the hotline (866-424-8486) and ask when I get off work.

ab3tx

09-12-2006, 08:55 AM

cheerdude

09-12-2006, 09:30 AM

Now that the S3 is up on the TiVo page, which deal do you pick if you intend to transfer lifetime?

I guess I'll call the hotline (866-424-8486) and ask when I get off work.

Go to the VIP website - By adding it to your cart, you will jump directly to the TiVo Store bypassing the need to select a plan.

AVSman

09-12-2006, 09:41 AM

Noticed this fine print on the www.tivo.com/vip page:

Offer Terms and Conditions

1. Tivo® Series3TM HD DVR purchase required by 12/31/2006 and activation of the DVR is required by 01/31/2007. Series3 HD DVR must be purchased through TiVo.com. DVRs purchased through retail channels are not eligible.

:down: Booooo! That sucks, as I have bunch of Circuit City gift cards to burn, so I'll be getting my S3 there. Oh well, at least I have a lifetime giftcard I can use.

Jazhuis

09-12-2006, 09:54 AM

I have one question from the fine print of the Lifetime offer:

5. Cancellation of only the 1-year contract on the old DVR while still transferring the Product Lifetime Service to the new Series3 HD DVR will be permitted, but only after 60 days of service for both boxes have elapsed. Cancellations on the 1-year contract will not result in refund of the $199 transfer fee. All other warranty replacement costs still apply to the old DVR.
That cancellation of the "1-year contract" applies to the free year contract on the old unit, right? So essentially, that says that you have to not pay for at least 60 days of service on the old unit before you can tell them to cancel the remaining 335 free days?

sommerfeld

09-12-2006, 10:18 AM

That cancellation of the "1-year contract" applies to the free year contract on the old unit, right? So essentially, that says that you have to not pay for at least 60 days of service on the old unit before you can tell them to cancel the remaining 335 free days?
That's the way I read it, too. It makes a weird sort of sense if you believe the reason for the 1-year free contract is to boost their subscriber numbers until such time as cox and comcast deployments happen in force.

btwyx

09-12-2006, 10:43 AM

I just ordered mine.

ingenue007

09-12-2006, 11:24 AM

i just ordered mine 2nd day shipping. i cant believe i was unlucky and got charged tax of 67 dollars. ugh. 878 total. i'm not happy with that number. +200 more to transfer. ugh.

greenstork

09-12-2006, 11:28 AM

I have a Samsung SIR-4120 DirecTiVo and I have never paid TiVo a dime. However, the unit does not require a monthly fee, only $6 to D*TV per month. Is this considered a lifetime subscription?

cwoody222

09-12-2006, 11:37 AM

I have a Samsung SIR-4120 DirecTiVo and I have never paid TiVo a dime. However, the unit does not require a monthly fee, only $6 to D*TV per month. Is this considered a lifetime subscription?

No.

Lifetime subscription is a one-time payment to TiVo in the hundreds-of-dollars range.

D*TiVo's weren't eligible for lifetime subs anyway.

drosoph

09-12-2006, 11:43 AM

Referral swap anyone :) -- Or is that banned here?

bferrell

09-12-2006, 11:46 AM

Noticed this fine print on the www.tivo.com/vip page:

Offer Terms and Conditions

1. Tivo® Series3TM HD DVR purchase required by 12/31/2006 and activation of the DVR is required by 01/31/2007. Series3 HD DVR must be purchased through TiVo.com. DVRs purchased through retail channels are not eligible.
DUDE! I called in and a CSR told me I HAD to buy it retail and call in, so I ordered from Circuit City. I'm totally screwed. Hope I can cancel my order.

Brett

Ereth

09-12-2006, 12:06 PM

This thread has been moving so fast it's hard to keep up!

First, I'm very excited to see this finally released.

Second, the Lifetime Transfer is awesome. I have a dead Series 1 with Lifetime (it's got a broken modem) that I was keeping because I couldn't bear to discard the Lifetime service. Every time I started thinking about what it would take to get it online again (TiVoNet, etc) I decided it wasn't really worth it for an old Series 1.

NOW I can transfer that Lifetime to a brand new Series 3 and not have to worry about how to get the Series 1 back to life.This is GREAT for me, and great for TiVo since they get a newer box with newer features in the consumers home.

TiVo, good job!

I already called Comcast and the cablecards are free, though I don't have digital service so I would have to upgrade to get HD channels from them and that will cost me an additional $12/month per Cablecard. More if I want more than just locals.

But this move sets me up for when DirecTV decides that the HR10-250 isn't going to be supported any more. I'm VERY happy.

There was a comment earlier in the thread about QAM. Doesn't this answer from the FAQ basically say that the TiVo CAN do it?

Will the Series3 HD DVR work without CableCARD(s)?
Yes. Without CableCARD(s) the Series3 HD DVR will still be able to access in-the clear digital cable channels (generally local channels), basic cable channels, ATSC digital over the air channels (available in high definition in most areas) and analog antenna channels.

davezatz

09-12-2006, 12:11 PM

There was a comment earlier in the thread about QAM. Doesn't this answer from the FAQ basically say that the TiVo CAN do it?

The S3 can tune unencrypted QAM, but currently it will not know that xxx.xx matches up to NBC HD for example. I'm not sure what priority researching/adding that functionality is.

eisenb11

09-12-2006, 12:39 PM

I just ordered mine w 2-day shipping. Stupid CA sales tax... $66.00...

Jazhuis

09-12-2006, 12:42 PM

That's the way I read it, too. It makes a weird sort of sense if you believe the reason for the 1-year free contract is to boost their subscriber numbers until such time as cox and comcast deployments happen in force.

Gah! Your user name is so close to my last name that it freaks me out when I see you reply to my posts. :p

My other guess might be that it may be a way to make sure that the unit LT is being transferred from isn't on its very last legs. Of course, just because you have service doesn't mean you make your Tivo dial in...hmm.

Or, while I'm wildly speculating, it means that the secondhand market won't be immediately flooded with perfectly good S1's and S2's as people replace them with S3's. The sad part is that MRV would be the perfect excuse for people who are buying the S3 as a second Tivo, to show them how useful it would be...to upgrade their old S2 to an S3. Heh.