2 DIshes because of trees

[Vikeman]

So I got my upgrade to a new HD DVR system -- installer couldn't point the new dish so that I could access all three (101/110/119) satellites. Luckily, he had a spare dish he left me, and I was able to get signals from all satellites.

Dish #1 - 101/119
Dish #2 - 110/119

I've currently got one line hooked to each satellite going into the DVR. Which means that on 101 - Satellite 2 gets no signal, and on 110 -- Satellite 1 gets no signal.

What is simplest way to fix? Is there some sort of multiplexor I can use to combine both dishes signals into separate line 1 and line 2s? Want to be able to record and watch shows at same time, regardless of channel..

Thanks in advance!

[Vikeman]

Also have another DVR downstairs that needs a couple of cables to it as well.. :)

[JimSpence]

You need to connect both lines from the 101/119 dish to the Sat A side of a 4x8 multiswitch, and then the two lines from the 110/119 dish to the Sat B inputs.

[RonP]

I have a similar setup but I have three separate round dishes, one for each satellite. All three get tied into a 4x8 multiswitch to drive 8 separate outputs (4 dual tuner TiVo's). Two inputs are from the 101 dish and the other two inputs are combined from the 110 and 119 dish using a "Sat-C" kit.

Your installer should have done this for you as part of the install.

[RonP]

You need to connect both lines from the 101/119 dish to the Sat A side of a 4x8 multiswitch, and then the two lines from the 110/119 dish to the Sat B inputs.
Will this work with the 3-LNB dishes with the built-in multiswitches? Only using two of the four outputs? I asked the installer to do this for me - replace two of the round dishes (pointing to 101 and 110) with one 3-lnb dish and tie that to a separate round 119 dish - but he said it would not work because of the built-in multiswitch.

[WinstonSmith]

Great question.... I might be facing the same thing.

[Vikeman]

Is there a special type of multiswitch required that will work with the 3 LNB setup that comes with HDTV? Reason I ask is my installer (before the two satellite dish thing) told me I needed to run two extra 125' lengths of cable from the 3LNB satellite (in addition to the 2 lengths already there) in order to support my second DVR. In the past, I was able to power 2 DVRs (non -HDTV) through 2 cables and a multiswitch setup...

[WinstonSmith]

Vike,

What types of dishes are you using?

Here's my problem.... on my Phase III Triple-LNB dish I am able to receive 101 and 110, but NOT 119. No matter what I do, I can't pick up 119.

I have an older, round dish w/ a single LNB. I wonder how I could set it up so that I am able to receive the 119.

[Vikeman]

And was having same problem.. couldn't pick up 119. Until I found a spot 20 feet away and pointed the second dish (one which has the triple LNB) and got both 119 and 110 clear as a bell (93..). So I think you could point your other, older dish, and get 119 and use some sort of a multiplexor (but am not sure yet) hopefully someone on this forum will know or I will get my installer to figure it out.

My concern is the HDTV signals and cable and whatever special stuff you need...

[litzdog911]

More information about how to combine multiple dishes here ....
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=314599

[Mark Lopez]

At first thought I was going to say it would be a problem with the phase III dishes, but after thinking about it, I think it might work fine if using 2 lines from each dish into an external 4x6 or 4x8 multi-switch. The appropriate signals/voltage levels will go to the the respective dish since the signal/voltage levels for the other sat never get past the multi-switch, to the wrong dish. Just be sure to connect the correct dish to the correct inputs of the multi-switch.

[litzdog911]

At first thought I was going to say it would be a problem with the phase III dishes, but after thinking about it, I think it might work fine if using 2 lines from each dish into an external 4x6 or 4x8 multi-switch. The appropriate signals/voltage levels will go to the the respective dish since the signal/voltage levels for the other sat never get past the multi-switch, to the wrong dish. Just be sure to connect the correct dish to the correct inputs of the multi-switch.

Maybe, provided you can get by with just two dishes to "see" all 3 of the main satellites (101, 110, & 119-deg) .... one dish for 101-deg and one dish for 110 & 119-deg satellites. If using a Phase III dish, you need one dish for both 110 & 119-deg because of the internal combiner and special LNB used to combine the 110 and 119-deg transponders together.

This corresponds to the inputs labels on the multiswitch. For example, the recent Zinwell WB68's four satellite inputs are labeled ...
Port 1 = 99/101 18V
Port 2 = 99/101 13V
Port 3 = 103/110/119 18V 22kHz
Port 4 = 103/110/119 13V 22kHz

In this scenario we don't care about the 99 and 103-deg Ka satellites, and the Phase III dishes won't "see" those anyway.

So it should be possible to combine two Phase III dishes, one to receive 101-deg and connected to the first two multiswitch inputs. And one dish to receive 110+119-deg and connected to the second two multiswitch inputs.

My main question in this scheme is what happens if both dishes can still "see" the same satellite? Would it cause any interference to have the same satellite received on two different dishes and then combined at the multiswitch?

[Vikeman]

What the responses seem to be saying are: (just so I can be clear)


1)Make sure one dish (ie Dish 2 in my configuration) can receive both 119 and 110.

2)Point second dish so it receives 101 (which in my configuration also is getting 119).

3)Get a multiswitch (ie the Zinwell WB68) and connect two wires from both satellites into it (for a total of 4).

4)Run 2 wires each from the multi-switch to both of my DVRs and hope everything works....

It also sounds like there may be a problem with step #2 since that dish is also getting 119 which may confuse the multiswitch? If that is the case, could I instead use one of the older satellites (non-HD) to get the 101 signal and combine it or would that screw something up in the HD reception?

Thanks for the help so far it is starting to sound promising...I really don't want to whack a bunch of trees on my neighbors lands...

[Vikeman]

I read the other thread that was posted asking talking about a SAT-C combiner and three separate dishes (old type). For the configuration I am talking about it sounds like that may not be needed because I am getting 110 and 119 combined signal from the new dish and only adding 101, correct?

[litzdog911]

What the responses seem to be saying are: (just so I can be clear)


1)Make sure one dish (ie Dish 2 in my configuration) can receive both 119 and 110.

2)Point second dish so it receives 101 (which in my configuration also is getting 119).

3)Get a multiswitch (ie the Zinwell WB68) and connect two wires from both satellites into it (for a total of 4).

4)Run 2 wires each from the multi-switch to both of my DVRs and hope everything works....

It also sounds like there may be a problem with step #2 since that dish is also getting 119 which may confuse the multiswitch? If that is the case, could I instead use one of the older satellites (non-HD) to get the 101 signal and combine it or would that screw something up in the HD reception?

Thanks for the help so far it is starting to sound promising...I really don't want to whack a bunch of trees on my neighbors lands...

Yes, I think you could use an 18" round single LNB dish for just the 101-deg satellite. Connect both of that LNB's outputs to the first two inputs on the multiswitch.

Also, when aiming the Phase III dish, you still need to aim it as if you're aligning for all 3 satellites. That is, it will be pointed at the 110-deg satellite. This is regardless of which satellites you're trying to receive with each Phase III dish that you use. Let the multiswitch decide which satellites are selected and don't think you should aim the dish any differently than usual.

[Vikeman]

Still wondering if anyone has successfully used a multiswitch with both satellites of the 3 LNB variety they give you with DirectTV though..

[litzdog911]

It should work with two Phase III dishes as described above. Worst case you might need to block one of the LNBs if any interference is observed, but I don't think that will even be necessary.

If you do decide to give this a try, let us know how it goes.

[Vikeman]

biggest concern right now is all the talk I've heard that in order to power 2 DVRs, all 4 lines from a single 3LNB dish must be used. Not sure if that is really true based on the type of multiswitch I use or not -- will have to talk to someone who knows the best one. If I do need to use all 4 lines to power 2 DVRS, that would translate to 8 inputs on a single multi-switch, which I am not sure is even available anywhere in a switch compatible with the Directv 3LNB dishes. Anyone got a link?

[litzdog911]

biggest concern right now is all the talk I've heard that in order to power 2 DVRs, all 4 lines from a single 3LNB dish must be used. Not sure if that is really true based on the type of multiswitch I use or not -- will have to talk to someone who knows the best one. If I do need to use all 4 lines to power 2 DVRS, that would translate to 8 inputs on a single multi-switch, which I am not sure is even available anywhere in a switch compatible with the Directv 3LNB dishes. Anyone got a link?

I don't think this is true. But if you're worried, just use a power multiswitch like the Terk BMS58.

[Vikeman]

and had me sign a bill for "customer eduation" that they billed to D*.

What did I learn? According to the installer, all inputs into a multiswitch must be carrying the same signal from the same satellite! It is impossible to use a multiswitch to combine signals from multiple satellites. I even asked if I used older satellites if it would make a difference. "Nope".

Well, guess it is time to give up on professional help and do it myself - since the advice my Ironwood specialist gave me seems to be a bit different from what I've been reading on this thread....

I just wish either D* or Ironwood would have someone who could help me out!

[litzdog911]

You already know more about combining multiple satellites than 99% of the installers. It's not something that they're trained to do.

[Cabinwood]

Vike,

What types of dishes are you using?

Here's my problem.... on my Phase III Triple-LNB dish I am able to receive 101 and 110, but NOT 119. No matter what I do, I can't pick up 119.

I have an older, round dish w/ a single LNB. I wonder how I could set it up so that I am able to receive the 119.

This is how mine is set up. I get 101/110 on one dish and 119 on a round dish. I use the Sat C Kit combiner to combine them. It took some trial and error to get the right wires connected where they belonged, but it's been working for a few years now. There was a thread back when we set it up with instructions, but I can't find it...

[Vikeman]

Hopefully, once it arrives, I will be able to use and combine my 2 3LNB disshes. I still have my older, dual LNB dish, so may end up using that if the 2 3LNB setup doesn't work.

Looked all over town -- couldn't find one. So ended up going the EBAY route. Will post results for others to follow if it works.

I am getting HDTV on my new monitor -- man it looks sweet. I just gotta figure out how to make the remote switch tuners back and forth for me so I can manually figure out which tuner works with which channel until I get a working multi-switch set up...

[vikingguy]

I use 3 round dishes because of trees I am not sure what I am going to do next year when hd goes to 99 and 104. I could hit them with 4 or 5 dishes but I don't think that will be possible.

[litzdog911]

I use 3 round dishes because of trees I am not sure what I am going to do next year when hd goes to 99 and 104. I could hit them with 4 or 5 dishes but I don't think that will be possible.

Vikingguy ...
I just replaced my 3 dishes with two of the new Ka/Ku AT9 dishes. If you can find one spot on your house to see 99/101/103-degrees, and another spot to see 110/119-degree satellites, then you can easily combine two of the new dishes to see all five satellites, including the new Ka-band MPEG4 satellites. Read more about my experiments here ....
http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=62223

[litzdog911]

I use 3 round dishes because of trees I am not sure what I am going to do next year when hd goes to 99 and 104. I could hit them with 4 or 5 dishes but I don't think that will be possible.

Vikingguy ....
In early October you can use the Sun to help find spots on your house where you might be able to "see" more than one satellite. More info here ....
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=314458

[Vikeman]

Well, it worked! The Zinwell WB68 came through like a champ. Got two lines from each satellite going into the Zinwell (total of 4) and then two lines out to my DVR.

Of course, now that I have it working I figure out to get my locals in HD they want to upgrade me to a 5 LNB dish....Guess it is back to the drawing board a bit. I like the Sun idea, but will have to look up each satellite and take 5 separate pictures, right?

[litzdog911]

Well, it worked! The Zinwell WB68 came through like a champ. Got two lines from each satellite going into the Zinwell (total of 4) and then two lines out to my DVR.

Of course, now that I have it working I figure out to get my locals in HD they want to upgrade me to a 5 LNB dish....Guess it is back to the drawing board a bit. I like the Sun idea, but will have to look up each satellite and take 5 separate pictures, right?

Congratulations! Please post a summary of how what equipment you used and how everything is connected. That will really help the next folks that want to try this.

And, yes, you'll want to look up the time of day for each of the five satellites and take pictures of your house at those times. Then you can easily compare them to see where the shadows (trees) are not blocking your view of the satellites.

[Vikeman]

I have two of the 3LNB dishes supplied by DTV.

I mounted both of em about 25' apart. One gets 101' just fine, the other one gets 119 and 110. Signals in the high 80s for both.

Connected two cables to the middle two coax spots in each of the satellites LNBs. That makes a total of 4 cables from the two satellites that are running about 100' all the way to the house.

Once to the house, I connected the 4 cables to the Zinwell WB68. I connected the dish I was getting 101' on to the first two coax spots, and the second dish to the next two spots. The "flexport" spots I left alone.

I then used the first two coax outputs to run straight up to my HDTV DVR (HR10-250). Got great signals still in the high 80's for both Satellites A and B across all 3 of the satellites 101 119 110.

Was suprised to learn that the HDTV local signals are not available on the HR10-250 -- now they are telling me I need to upgrade my DVR to the HR20 and also get a 5LNB dish. I am gonna leave things along for a little while I think cause I really like my Tivo interface and can't stand the DTV one.

Now my questions on the setup:

1. I would assume that adding a second DVR shouldn't cause problems, correct? I guess my solution around that if it doesn't is to run two more cables from each dish into a second WB68, but would think that is a worst case solution.

2. Since living in this house, I've never needed an over the air antenna. Is there an easy cheap one I can use to test things out with to see if I get the HDTV locals in my area that you guys would reccomend? Are the old ugly "rooftop" antenna's still the best performers? Or can I get decent performance with the modern version of rabbit ears?

3. My TV does not have a tuner (it is a LCD monitor only). I'd assume the HR10 tuner would work though, correct?

I will tell you that football games on my new 47" monitor in HDTV really make all this worth it though!

[litzdog911]

I then used the first two coax outputs to run straight up to my HDTV DVR (HR10-250). Got great signals still in the high 80's for both Satellites A and B across all 3 of the satellites 101 119 110.

...

1. I would assume that adding a second DVR shouldn't cause problems, correct? I guess my solution around that if it doesn't is to run two more cables from each dish into a second WB68, but would think that is a worst case solution.

2. Since living in this house, I've never needed an over the air antenna. Is there an easy cheap one I can use to test things out with to see if I get the HDTV locals in my area that you guys would reccomend? Are the old ugly "rooftop" antenna's still the best performers? Or can I get decent performance with the modern version of rabbit ears?

3. My TV does not have a tuner (it is a LCD monitor only). I'd assume the HR10 tuner would work though, correct?

I will tell you that football games on my new 47" monitor in HDTV really make all this worth it though!

Nice job!!!

1. By "I then used the first two coax outputs to run straight up to my HDTV DVR (HR10-250)", do you mean the Zinwell multiswitch's coax outputs? If so, then yes, you can use the remaining multiswitch outputs to feed more DVRs and Receivers and they'll all see all three satellites.

2. Your best bets for antenna advice are ...
http://www.antennaweb.org
The "Local HDTV Reception Forum" at http://www.avsforum.com. Find your nearest city and see what works well for folks in your area.

3. The HR10-250 DVR tuners will receive your local HDTV channels only, not any of your standard definition (old fashioned over-the-air) channels. You'll need a suitable antenna, of course.