Does TiVo Series 3 have HDMI 1.3 ??

[Sepia]

Greetings all,

Any news/rumors on what version of HDMI will ship with the Series 3?

According to:
http://www.twice.com/article/CA6354008.html
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/06/22/hdmi_1-3_spec_posted/

Version 1.3 is ready and will ship in produts before Christmas of this year. So the obvious questions are:

1. Does the Series 3 support HDMI 1.3?
2. If not, is it a software upgrade in the future?
3. If yes, then was it the main reason for the delay in release?

- Sepia

[bkdtv]

The chips from Silicon Image to support HDMI 1.3 just became available in July.

I wouldn't expect to see HDMI 1.3 in anything outside of the PS3 in 2006. The initial supply of the 1.3 parts from Silicon Image is rather limited, and Sony has bought up much of the supply.

The Tivo Series3 design was finalized in the November 2005 - January 2006 timeframe, so there's no way it could incorporate HDMI 1.3.

Broadcom -- the chipsets Tivo use -- support HDMI 1.1 and HDMI 1.2. Broadcom won't sji[ DVR chipsets with HDMI 1.3 support until mid-2007. Not that it really matters...HDMI 1.3 offers no benefit for the Series3.

Remember, HDMI 1.3 devices are compatible with HDMI 1.1 displays, and HDMI 1.1 devices are compatible with HDMI 1.3 displays. HDMI incorporates full backward compatibility. There's no real advantage to a Series3 with HDMI 1.3, except the higher number on paper.

[Sepia]

Not that it really matters...HDMI 1.3 offers no benefit for the Series3.

hmmm....I would assume the following two features of 1.3 to be useful for TiVo devices too:

http://www.hdmi.org/press/pr/pr_20060622.asp

Lip Sync: Because consumer electronics devices are using increasingly complex digital signal processing to enhance the clarity and detail of the content, synchronization of video and audio in user devices has become a greater challenge and could potentially require complex end-user adjustments. HDMI 1.3 incorporates an automatic audio/video synching capability that allows devices to perform this synchronization automatically with accuracy.

New lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™.

- Sepia

[bkdtv]

Sepia,

Television programs aren't going to use those audio formats. Lossless formats are meant for fixed media like HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Dolby Digital Plus could offer some benefit, but it's not going to be practical for TV in the next five years, and probably not for the next ten. Cable companies won't be using boxes with HDMI 1.3 before 2008-2009, and even then, this will represent a small fraction of their digital STBs.

Dolby Digital Plus features a core Dolby Digital stream (on Blu-ray, and would for TV if its ever used), so even if programming did use Dolby Digital Plus in 2012, the Series3 would still support the core DD stream. Dolby Digital Plus is a set of extensions to Dolby Digital -- i.e. in an audio stream you have the Dolby Digital data + the DD+ extension data. Products like the Series3 would simply ignore the DD+ extension and decode the core DD5.1 stream.

I don't think the lip sync issues are really an issue for STB/DVR viewing.

[Dan203]

Most people have seperate audio and video devices, so sync via HDMI isn't really a possibility anyway. And uncompressed audio is not useful for an DVR that records broadcast television as the ATSC standard requires the use of the compressed AC3 audio standard.

HDMI 1.3 is meant for devices like HD-DVD players and video game systems that can take advantage of these added features.

Dan

[Sepia]

Great replies, thanks for that. I can't wait to get my Series 3!

- Sepia

[MickeS]

Most people have seperate audio and video devices, so sync via HDMI isn't really a possibility anyway.

I don't know much (not really anything) about HDMI, so this might be a stupid question: is it possible on a receiver with HDMI inputs and output to run just one HDMI cable from the Series 3 to an HDMI input on the receiver, and have the audio come from the receiver speakers, and then run another HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV, just for the video?

[bkdtv]

I don't know much (not really anything) about HDMI, so this might be a stupid question: is it possible on a receiver with HDMI inputs and output to run just one HDMI cable from the Series 3 to an HDMI input on the receiver, and have the audio come from the receiver speakers, and then run another HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV, just for the video?
Absolutely. This capability is found on all the latest home theater receivers/processors.

I'm looking forward to the release of the Panasonic SA-XR58.

[vman41]

I don't know much (not really anything) about HDMI, so this might be a stupid question: is it possible on a receiver with HDMI inputs and output to run just one HDMI cable from the Series 3 to an HDMI input on the receiver, and have the audio come from the receiver speakers, and then run another HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV, just for the video?

Can the version of HDMI the S3 is using carry 5.1 sound formats? I thought the sound was limited to 2 channel so you are better off using a TOSlink to the receiver.

[CCourtney]

I don't know much (not really anything) about HDMI, so this might be a stupid question: is it possible on a receiver with HDMI inputs and output to run just one HDMI cable from the Series 3 to an HDMI input on the receiver, and have the audio come from the receiver speakers, and then run another HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV, just for the video?


That's the intent of HDMI. It's basically DVI w/ a digital audio feed.

CCourtney

[CCourtney]

Can the version of HDMI the S3 is using carry 5.1 sound formats? I thought the sound was limited to 2 channel so you are better off using a TOSlink to the receiver.

All versions of HDMI can carry DD5.1 and DTS. There were some peices of equipment, that originally did not put the DD5.1 or DTS out the HDMI port, but that was a couple years ago and they were lambasted for doing such a boneheaded thing. I would be flabbergasted if TiVo did such a boneheaded thing.

BTW, the 1.3 HDMI standard includes the newer 'High Definition' Audio Standards like DD-HD and DTS-HD.

Here's the HDMI FAQ http://www.hdmi.org/about/faq.asp

CCourtney

[classicX]

I don't know much (not really anything) about HDMI, so this might be a stupid question: is it possible on a receiver with HDMI inputs and output to run just one HDMI cable from the Series 3 to an HDMI input on the receiver, and have the audio come from the receiver speakers, and then run another HDMI cable from the receiver to the TV, just for the video?

Yup, this is exactly what I use my receiver for. A good one will also upscale everything to the HDMI output. A great one will upscale AND upconvert.

Even though my equipment is hidden, it's still nice to know that there is only a power cable and a single HDMI cable to my TV. I never have to switch TV inputs.

[vman41]

All versions of HDMI can carry DD5.1 and DTS. There were some peices of equipment, that originally did not put the DD5.1 or DTS out the HDMI port, but that was a couple years ago and they were lambasted for doing such a boneheaded thing.

OK, I think my confusion was that my TV has an HDMI input (that I can play the sound from) but no DD5.1 or DTS processor (only has 2 speakers).

[MickeS]

So... if I get a DVD-player with HDMI output, a receiver with 2 HDMI in and one out, and the S3, and connected those to the receiver and the TV, the only three cables I'd need would be 3 HDMI cables? I never looked into HDMI much, since it didn't seem particularly interesting... but it would be nice to reduce the number of cables. :)

[Dan203]

OK, I think my confusion was that my TV has an HDMI input (that I can play the sound from) but no DD5.1 or DTS processor (only has 2 speakers).

Actually I think what you're remembering is that the current HDMI spec can only carry two channels of "uncompressed" audio. HDMI 1.3 addresses that by increasing the bandwidth enough to carry full 7.1 channel "uncompressed" audio for Dolby True HD sound.

Dan

[Dan203]

So... if I get a DVD-player with HDMI output, a receiver with 2 HDMI in and one out, and the S3, and connected those to the receiver and the TV, the only three cables I'd need would be 3 HDMI cables? I never looked into HDMI much, since it didn't seem particularly interesting... but it would be nice to reduce the number of cables. :)

Yep. I'd love to do this as well, but receivers with HDMI inputs are pretty expensive and I don't want to drop the cash on one just yet.

Dan

[MickeS]

The only not crazy-expensive one I've found with HDMI is a Sony ($400). It does not switch the audio, only the video... but I'm assuming that means it doesn't even accept HDMI-audio in, in which case it wouldn't work for me.

[Dan203]

I found the lowest model Dennon with HDMI online somehwere for a little over $500, but that's still pretty expensive just to reduce the number of cables I'm using.

This switch...

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204port_toslink.htm

is half the price, will work with my current receiver and still only require two cables per device. (i.e. HDMI and Toslink audio)

Dan

[CCourtney]

The only not crazy-expensive one I've found with HDMI is a Sony ($400). It does not switch the audio, only the video... but I'm assuming that means it doesn't even accept HDMI-audio in, in which case it wouldn't work for me.

I assume you're talking about the Sony STR-DG800. It does accept and decode HDMI-audio in. It assumes that since you're using a receiver which is powered on (since you're using it as a switch) then you're putting the Audio out the speakers driven by the receiver instead of your TV.

Not necessarily a true assumption.

CCourtney

[MickeS]

Yep, that was the one... cool... that's what I need. :)

[megazone]

Another option is a TV with two HDMI inputs and an optical audio OUT. That's what I have. So I'm keeping my existing surround receiver and I'll connect the S3 and a PS3 to the TV, then feed the sound to the receiver. My TV will feed the full digital sound stream out to the receiver.

[Dan203]

My 50" Samsung DLP is only 1.5 years old and it only has one HDMI input and no optical output. So this feature is either something new, or something only available on certain brands.

Dan

[aaronwt]

The optical output is for the HDTV tuner in the TV. That is standard. If there isn't an HD tuner there won't be an optical out.

[megazone]

My 50" Samsung DLP is only 1.5 years old and it only has one HDMI input and no optical output. So this feature is either something new, or something only available on certain brands.What model do you have? I have the HL-S6187W. (http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLS6187WXXAA.asp)

[Dan203]

Mine is the HL-P5063W

Dan

[CCourtney]

Dan,

I've got an HLP5674W. HDMI was relatively new for this model years lineup. The previous years Samsung models where DVI only instead of HDMI + DVI, as was the majority of HDTVs. Since then it's been moving more towards a couple HDMI's and putting digital audio out as well for those who want to feed it from the TV to the receiver.

CCourtney