So what is the SAF on the Series 3.

[ZeoTiVo]

So what is the SAF on the Series 3. Spouse Acceptance Factor has always been a hallmark of TiVo but that may change with the Series 3 since it is about better picture and digital recording -

so the pro may be getting rid of some cable boxes and the clunky cables
or else getting something better than the cable company DVR

the con is "800$ for a better picture, I don't think so."

The last choice is about wanting to keep either the E* or DirectTV you have now.

EDIT - sorry I should have spaced the dollar amounts out more - consider the 599$ one as 599 and under


PS - I voted on "We have TiVos now, we don't need another one" because my Wife could care less about HD and I am of the mind to wait until next Christmas and let the S3 play out for a year. Love having that DT analog box.

[shady]

The spouse can't wait to replace that Motorola Comcast PVR. :)

[ah30k]

My wife is a TiVo junkie but doesn't see the value in HD. If the TiVo died, she would be lost, but I don't think I can gather the same enthusiasm for HD. It will be a tough sell.

[alansplace]

actually neither of us has any interest in a hdtv let alone the s3 at the current prices.
--
Alan :D

[MickeS]

This question doesn't make any sense. :)

[CCourtney]

First of all you don't have enough price points. Second, not everyone on this forum has a TiVo in there house, although most have DVRs. Third, not everyone on this forum that doesn't have a TiVo has Sat.

My WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) is $499, and I'd still have to argue with here to get it as my Xmas/Birthday gift for the year.

CCourtney

[greg_burns]

Yeah, and what about us that aren't married? :rolleyes: :D

[Arcady]

I have Sat, and I have multiple TiVos (including HD), and I am interested in the S3. However, my wife would never go for it at that price, since we would need to buy at least three of them.

[Dan203]

Yeah, and what about us that aren't married? :rolleyes: :D

We get to do whatever we want with our money. :)

Dan

[ZombiE]

There is no way I could get my wife to go for a price that high. I am in the same boat as ah30k. My wife loves the TIVO and so does my son, but to fly around spending that much money to record HD is just pointless in her mind, as mine as well.

When the price drops to an appropriate level, say $250ish then we will think about it. By that time Cox and Tivo may have had a child that will work for us.

I love our Tivo and couldn't live without it, if/when it dies we will buy a DT and be just as happy. Right now I don't mind watching some of my shows in HD "Live"

Alex

[phox_mulder]

Yeah, and what about us that aren't married? :rolleyes: :D

I wouldn't have the 3 TiVo's I currently have.
Wouldn't have the HDTV so wouldn't need the S3.
Wouldn't have a truck, wouldn't have a motorcycle.

I guess I'd be a broken man with a stack of VHS tapes, a late 80's vintage 27 inch TV and a bus pass.


phox

[ZeoTiVo]

Yeah, and what about us that aren't married? :rolleyes: :D
well then you can't vote but you can do what you want with your money :p


PS thanks Dan for fixing the poll :up:

[windracer]

I can't even get my wife to appreciate the difference between SD and "HD" on my ED display. :( :eek:

[Tippy]

ROFL - I didn't have any idea what this was going to be when I saw SAF in the title.

All I've told my wife is that we are getting one when they become available (and I've got an extra teaching job this semester that will pay for it).

I'm not sure exactly how it will go down though!

However, I'm the man of the house and my decision is final - and if you believe that, I've got some ocean-view property in Kansas to sell you.

Anyone know of a good divorce attorney that I can retain once she sees the cc statement???

Honestly though, I'll try to sell the HD recording factor, the two tuners, the easy external HD, and the fact that we can ditch our crappy SA HD 8300 (and the associated monthly fees). Hopefully with one existing lifetime unit I'll only pay $6.95 for the Series 3 unit. Another big kicker will be that the S3 unit will transfer SD recordings to my two existing units without a problem.

TBS

[ZeoTiVo]

I can't even get my wife to appreciate the difference between SD and "HD" on my ED display. :( :eek:


Hehe, I have some wireless speakers that you have to turn on individually and I catch my wife all the time just having one of them on. She tells me she hears no difference :rolleyes:

[nhaigh]

My wife is 100% behind TiVo and if we lost TiVo she'd be the first in line to replace it.

That said she doesn't get the whole HD thing so is not really bothered about the S3. She will however let me get it and the Sony 60" that really needs to be next to it. What's more is she's going to get me a Harmony 880 for Xmas.

[CCourtney]

I wouldn't have the 3 TiVo's I currently have.
Wouldn't have the HDTV so wouldn't need the S3.
Wouldn't have a truck, wouldn't have a motorcycle.

I guess I'd be a broken man with a stack of VHS tapes, a late 80's vintage 27 inch TV and a bus pass.


phox

ROFLMAO, Marrage isn't quite that bad dude ;)

Since Marrage 5yrs ago: I've Purchased an HDTV, 1 DVR, started renting another DVR (SA300HD), built another HTPC, upgraded routers, went to a Win Mobile based phone, purchased new digital cameras, multiple video cards, capture cards, HDDs, built a replica of a '65 427 Shelby Cobra, purchased a new truck, ...

In other words, you can still get your toys, just may need to pull back a little when you get them.

CCourtney

[btwyx]

I can't even get my wife to appreciate the difference between SD and "HD" on my ED display. :( :eek:My wife can see the difference, but it doesn't matter to her. She's conent to let me appreciate the difference though.

[whitmans77]

i think the 800 price point will be a detractor for me only because I will be getting an HDTV soon. SO I may wait it out and wait for the price to fall and for any early bugs to be worked out. If the price drops to 600 ill be in the game ecspecially if i can sell my ReplayTV and a modded series 1 that I have. UP until this past weekend I have purposely stayed away from friends houses that have an HDTV. I was over at a friends and he just got the comcast dvr and we started watching the little league world series and I was amazed at the picture ---and so was my wife---now the dvr on the other hand---sucked compared to tivo---my friend was trying to tell me how to find stuff and he even said that compared to my tivos its hard.
I think that when i do get an HDTV that I will rent the cable companies DVR and hopefully my wife wont mind the cost of the Series 3.

[greg_burns]

ROFLMAO, Marrage isn't quite that bad dude ;)

Being a DINK had its perks. Heck, I probably could have bought two S3's. :p

[ZeoTiVo]

ROFLMAO, Marrage isn't quite that bad dude ;)
In other words, you can still get your toys, just may need to pull back a little when you get them.

CCourtney
Yep. I have a happy marriage as well, but I had to suit up and just buy the first TiVo we had in our house. After that the other Series 2 TiVos were a much easier consensus, still she comes down on montly bill every so often when she is in a cost cutting mood. She is a very good shopper herself and frugal with her buys.

She would be in for a flat panel TV because it would look better in the family room, not that the picture would be better but that it would actually let her get rid of big AV cabinet and just make the room look better .

So an 800$ TiVo would be a hard sell for me right now, but that is mainly because we do not have an HD setup currently. My plan is to watch the flat panel LCD/Plasma TVs and decide when to buy one this year. After that an HD TiVo will just be a needed thing.

But for now I am looking at AMD 64X2 PCs since the Intel Duo core is driving the price of those PCs down. That way I have soemthing that can run galleon/TiVodesktop while doing other things

[ashu]

(possible smeek)
Where's the
- What spouse?
poll option? :)

My quest to buy all the toys I want BEFORE I get married continues ...

[ZeoTiVo]

(possible smeek)
Where's the
- What spouse?
poll option? :)

My quest to buy all the toys I want BEFORE I get married continues ...

My jealousy at you sepnding whatever you want precludes my including single people. Of course at least my Analog Series 2 house includes laundry service :D

[TiVotion]

I refuse to get married. That way I can sit around in my underwear playing Everquest 2 all weekend, and no one cares. I can leave my socks on the coffee table, put empty milk cartons back in the fridge, let the garbage pile up, stack dishes in the sink, and order whatever I want off the Internet, whenever I want it.

I wouldn't trade those abilities for anything.

[RCflier]

Wow, reading this thread makes me apreaciate my fiance that much more. Our last conversation on the suject (email) was this:

Me: "new tivo "rumor", $799 MSRP, avail 9/17"
Her: "cool! Just in time ;-)" (refering to my birthday next month)

Luckily she hates the POS 8300HD DVR as much as I do.

[bgtimber75]

The spouse can't wait to replace that Motorola Comcast PVR. :)


Same. The wife hates the Verizon DVR's but I don't think even that will get here to let me drop 8 bills on one.

[timo123]

My wife is just as savvy with the Moxi DVR as she is with the Tivo. Unless Tivo does some sort of rent-a-box pricing structure I will be living visariously through every one else on this board.

[ashu]

My jealousy at you sepnding whatever you want precludes my including single people. Of course at least my Analog Series 2 house includes laundry service :D

For a married man, you, Sir, have an incredible memory :D

I was thinking about the absence of the laundry feature on my TiVo units just last evening when I had to fire up the machine to wash my biking gear! Where's MZ's RF list when you need it?

[ashu]

I refuse to get married. That way I can sit around in my underwear playing Everquest 2 all weekend, and no one cares. I can leave my socks on the coffee table, put empty milk cartons back in the fridge, let the garbage pile up, stack dishes in the sink, and order whatever I want off the Internet, whenever I want it.

I wouldn't trade those abilities for anything.

Other than what I've emphasised, I 'lack' all the other stellar qualities you mention. Am I (*shudder*) ready for married life? Release the S3 already, Alviso!

[classicX]

I chose "$599 or less" because of the "or less," as that is the only option in the list for people not wanting to pay more.

I think $299 is acceptable, and I might be able to push her for $399, but anything above that and it's "wait another 6-12 months until the price comes down."

That said I could do it for higher, but she would definitely be upset at the price. I would too.

[sbrown23]

My wife is just as savvy with the Moxi DVR as she is with the Tivo. Unless Tivo does some sort of rent-a-box pricing structure I will be living visariously through every one else on this board.

Too bad Moxi sux so bad. I mean bad. Really, is there even any comparison whatsoever between Moxi and Tivo? Especially since Tivo is finally going HD? The Moxi interface is pretty, but not as friendly as Tivo. And the functionality as implemented is terrible.

Series 3 for me! (at least when the price comes down ... $799 is just too large)

[timo123]

Too bad Moxi sux so bad. I mean bad. Really, is there even any comparison whatsoever between Moxi and Tivo? Especially since Tivo is finally going HD?

Actually, my box has been pretty good. I think Tivo handles searches and overall recorded show management better but overall I have had a pretty decent experience with it. Would I prefer the HD Tivo... absolutely. I live with the Moxi box handling my HD recording.

[Dan203]

I'm with sbrown23, my Moxi is going back as soon as I get my hands on a S3.

Dan

[MichaelK]

none of the above:

"wife has no choice"

LOL

[Welshdog]

Being a DINK had its perks. Heck, I probably could have bought two S3's. :pYes the DINK factor is very useful for obtaining the electronic schwag. We are actually DINKWADs so we have a little less to spend than a plain old DINK. :D

[Arcady]

I can't even get my wife to appreciate the difference between SD and "HD" on my ED display. :( :eek:

I hope that's a joke.

An ED display is 480p at best (same as SD.)

[btwyx]

An ED display is 480p at best (same as SD.)Another uneducated swipe at ED.

[ashu]

Another uneducated swipe at ED.

Wait, seriously ... how is the truth a swipe? The context or perhaps the tone of the rest of the post ... I can believe that, but calling a spade a spade isn't a swipe ;)

[btwyx]

Wait, seriously ... how is the truth a swipe? The context or perhaps the tone of the rest of the post ... I can believe that, but calling a spade a spade isn't a swipe ;)Its not even the truth. SD is not 480p, and the tone is implying ED is not even worth considering.

[ZeoTiVo]

Wait, seriously ... how is the truth a swipe? The context or perhaps the tone of the rest of the post ... I can believe that, but calling a spade a spade isn't a swipe ;)

back on topic
see now if you had a spouse then you would not need to be looking for arguments in multiple forums at once :D

[megazone]

An ED display is 480p at best (same as SD.)
SD is 480i
ED is 480p - twice the visual data
HD is 720p or better. Practically that means 720p/1080i/1080p.

[ashu]

Its not even the truth. SD is not 480p, and the tone is implying ED is not even worth considering.

Then I DO stand corrected. I always thought DVDs (480p) were true SD, and that 480i was just a convenience thing for TV broadcasts ... didn't realize (or no longer cared?) that NO SD exceeded 480i.

In light of this, I would still share the general opinion that there was a time & placef for ED, when they were a serious upgrade and the best source available to most people was 480P from DVDs.

Now, of course, they're an orphaned, tweener format of display and seriously shouldn't be considered by anyone that is upgrading (I repeat: NOW) from old-school 480i SD. TOOOO small an upgrade step to take the depreciation hit of a new gadget, and certainly no longer worth the savings over basic HDTV sets!

[ashu]

back on topic
see now if you had a spouse then you would not need to be looking for arguments in multiple forums at once :D

touche' ... but I *do* multitask rather well :)

[btwyx]

I would still share the general opinion that there was a time & placef for ED, What I object to is people who diss ED by lookng at numbers, rather than looking at a picture, which is what I suspect the poster who started this was doing.

The best ED display are way better than a lot of mediocre "true" HD displays. Numbers don't tell the story, pictures do.

[DCIFRTHS]

My wife is 100% behind TiVo and if we lost TiVo she'd be the first in line to replace it.

That said she doesn't get the whole HD thing so is not really bothered about the S3. She will however let me get it and the Sony 60" that really needs to be next to it. What's more is she's going to get me a Harmony 880 for Xmas.

Does she have a single sister? :)

[windracer]

What I object to is people who diss ED by lookng at numbers, rather than looking at a picture, which is what I suspect the poster who started this was doing.
When I was shopping for my display (this was two years ago) I did just that, compared picture quality. Most of my viewing (at the time) was DVD-based. To my own (perhaps uneducated) eye, the picture quality was the same. I couldn't justify the extra cost at the time and went with an EDTV.

I have not regretted that decision. Using the built in ATSC/QAM tuner I can pull the local stations in HD off of my analog cable and they look great! There is definitely a visual difference between the SD and the "ED" picture.

So, yes, I was joking a little when I said my wife couldn't see the difference. What I really should have said was that she doesn't care that much. I catch her watching the locals in SD all the time and I'll casually switch to the digital channel so I can watch it in a higher quality.

[classicX]

What I object to is people who diss ED by lookng at numbers, rather than looking at a picture, which is what I suspect the poster who started this was doing.

What I object to is not the argument itself, but people arguing OFF TOPIC. Come on, quit going back and forth about something so silly and get back to our wives.

Update: short notice vacation may put a dent further in my efforts for a pair of S3s. Then again, I could make the argument: "You decided that we should spend so many thousands on a whim, why can't I?"

That said I wouldn't pay thousands for two S3s. Not even one.

One thousand, that is.

[CCourtney]

What I object to is people who diss ED by lookng at numbers, rather than looking at a picture, which is what I suspect the poster who started this was doing.

The best ED display are way better than a lot of mediocre "true" HD displays. Numbers don't tell the story, pictures do.

Wow, that's a statement I find hard to swallow.

I've never walked up to an ED display and thought, wow that looks good. The first thought that usually pops into my head is 'why do they have a bad SD feed going to the HDTV'. Yes, I know it's not an HDTV but when I see a 16:9 display I tend to make the assumption. The second thing I do is look for the resolution of the set, and try to figure out the resolution of the image comming in (sometimes easier to do than others.)

When it is an HDTV, and I get the feed setup correctly, even the lower end $1000 CRT RP HDTVs, still kick the best ED display I've ever seen in the arse.

Don't get me wrong, ED displays often are moderately OK with an HD feed. And some of the better ones do a better job at displaying an SD signal than some HDTVs. But I'd have to disagree with your statement. They're great for Sports Bars, Great for a kid demanding a widescreen set, but watching one at standard sitting ranges for the size of the set does no compete with low end HDTVs.

CCourtney

[DCIFRTHS]

... When it is an HDTV, and I get the feed setup correctly, even the lower end $1000 CRT RP HDTVs, still kick the best ED display I've ever seen in the arse. ...

People don't like to admit this, for several reasons, but one of them is that the technology is old and isn't as sexy as the newer flatscreens: CRTs still produce the best picture available. This statement includes many RP CRT sets. So a more accurate statement would be: A properly setup CRT kicks a$$ against most sets that are available today.

Plasmas, LCDs (flat panel or RP) have made incredible strides over the past few years. I particularly like the RP LCDs from SONY (SXRD), but again, they are all striving to provide a picture that equals a CRT based set.

Just my two cents for you to peruse. :)

[TiVo Troll]

Another uneducated swipe at ED.

Could the underlying problem be performance anxiety (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/health/sex/erectile_dysfunction/ed.about.causes.psych.htm)? For some people bigger is better, regardless of resolution. :D

[DCIFRTHS]

What I object to is not the argument itself, but people arguing OFF TOPIC. Come on, quit going back and forth about something so silly and get back to our wives. ...

I don't have one to get back to, and I'm betting that if I get back to someone elses, it may cause a bit of a problem ;)

[ashu]

I don't have one to get back to, and I'm betting that if I get back to someone elses, it may cause a bit of a problem ;)

That's what they deserve, for leaving us off their stupid poll!

(I keeeeed!)

[btwyx]

I've never walked up to an ED display and thought, wow that looks good.I have. It was a Panasonic Plasma. The important points here are that it was a Plasma display, and a Panasonic. ED is secondary to that. If you lump together all ED displays as "just ED", you're doing the good ones a diservice.When it is an HDTV, and I get the feed setup correctly, even the lower end $1000 CRT RP HDTVs, still kick the best ED display I've ever seen in the arse.I've never seen an RP TV that I like.ED displays often are moderately OK with an HD feed.A good ED can be extremely good at displaying HD. I just spent a weekend in the company of an HD TV (an LCD at a hotel) and it just showed how bad a mediocre HD set can be (even displaying known good OTA signals).

The numbers are less important that the quality of the display.

And to pull this on topic, as I said before my wife doesn't care, she can see a difference but it doesn't matter to her. She does however appreciate the TiVo in all this, she's not going to do without the TiVo part. So if I can get a TiVo which I think gives a better picture she's fine with that. The price isn't much of an issue.

[Randy G]

1) A 1080i picture on a 1080p LCD panel is amazing. No way we're ever going back. I'm sure a 1080p CRT would look even better, but the SAF on such a monster would be zero (and honestly, I never want to see another CRT come through our door).
2) We love TiVo, but when both our Series 1 TiVo and our Dish Network receiver died on the same weekend, it was time to upgrade.
3) There is no way we're giving up LinkTV, RAVE, and other satellite-only (or even Dish-only) channels. We are very bummed that current and apparently future TiVos will not record the content we want. We'll probably wind up with a Nextcom R5000-HD, and reminisce about the late, great TiVo.

[ZeoTiVo]

but the SAF on such a monster would be zero (and honestly, I never want to see another CRT come through our door).

very good point on a huge CRT - my wife freaked over a 30" CRT and it was darn heavy as well. LCD or Plasma is the only way I will go as I look over HDTVs this year. Projections are out because of cost and Home layout for me.

[megazone]

I just replaced my 12 year old 32" Panasonic CRT with a 61" Samsung DLP. It takes two people to effectively carry the CRT. Heavy and unweildy for one person to manage. It can be done, but it isn't recommended.

I can lift the DLP myself with little effort. It is a little awkward, being so big, but not bad.

And there is no comparison on picture, the Samsung - which is 1080p - blows away the old tube. And it is a model that actually accepts 1080p HDMI input, so it is waiting for the PS3. :-) I have my DVR-810H connected via progressive component currently, and it looks great.

And the S3, of course - that should be a given.

[ashu]

1080p? One of us :)

[Dan203]

I just replaced my 12 year old 32" Panasonic CRT with a 61" Samsung DLP. It takes two people to effectively carry the CRT. Heavy and unweildy for one person to manage. It can be done, but it isn't recommended.

I can lift the DLP myself with little effort. It is a little awkward, being so big, but not bad.

My Sister and Brother-in-law recently bought a 34" Sony WEGA CRT TV. That thing weighs almost 300lbs. :eek: It was a b*tch for two of us just getting it from the truck to the living room. By contrast, like you, I can move our 50" DLP all by myself.

Dan

[phox_mulder]

I was down to two options for my first HDTV, the Samsung in my sig or a Sony of the same size.

Weight was the determining factor.
I couldn't lift the Sony off the display rack at Best Buy, but I could lift the Samsung myself.
(ended up getting it from Circuit City, but that's another story)
The Sony was at least 50 lbs heavier, maybe closer to 100 lbs more.

Still needed help getting the Samsung from the box to my stand,
but at least I can maneuver it enough to get behind to make changes in the rats nest of cables.


phox

[HDTiVo]

Not sure which one of us is the spouse. I'll get back to you after I ask.

[Arcady]

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms with my ED comment.

However, EDTV is a joke.

(And 480 lines, whether it is displayed alternately as in 480i or all at once via 480p, is still 480 lines. Yes, progressive scan is better, but we're still talking about a resolution that my Mac did in 1987. And my LaserDisc player came really close (at 420 lines) in 1977.)

[btwyx]

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms with my ED comment.

However, EDTV is a joke.More worms.(And 480 lines, whether it is displayed alternately as in 480i or all at once via 480p, is still 480 lines. Yes, progressive scan is better, but we're still talking about a resolution that my Mac did in 1987. And my LaserDisc player came really close (at 420 lines) in 1977.)So you don't even know the difference between lines on a display and lines of resolution.

I still prefer to judge a display by looking at it, rather than looking at numbers on a page. Resolution doesn't tell the whole story, far from it.

[Arcady]

I know the difference between lines on a display and..

Never mind. I built a television set as my thesis project for electrical engineering. I know how a TV set works.

EDTV was a half-measure half-technology half-res joke appliance to sell under-powered widescreen to fools. Do they even bother with EDTV anymore?

Just buy a real display.

[CCourtney]

People don't like to admit this, for several reasons, but one of them is that the technology is old and isn't as sexy as the newer flatscreens: CRTs still produce the best picture available. This statement includes many RP CRT sets. So a more accurate statement would be: A properly setup CRT kicks a$$ against most sets that are available today.

Plasmas, LCDs (flat panel or RP) have made incredible strides over the past few years. I particularly like the RP LCDs from SONY (SXRD), but again, they are all striving to provide a picture that equals a CRT based set.

Just my two cents for you to peruse. :)

This is why I said $1000 RP CRT ;)

With the exception of CRT RPTVs that have good 9" guns, I haven't seen one I'd take a second look at, these are not $1000 sets. The $1000 RP CRTs have low end 7" guns and even with ISF Cals they look crappy compared to the vast majority of microdisplays. BTW, the Sony SXRD is LCoS technology not LCD.

CCourtney

[ZeoTiVo]

I still prefer to judge a display by looking at it, rather than looking at numbers on a page. Resolution doesn't tell the whole story, far from it.

I agree - I looked at a Sony WEGA CRT and a Toshiba CRT side by side. The SONY wega would do better on a DVD playback but when you had the Sony WEGA play plain old SD from coax cable it was all washed out looking.
The Toshiba CRT had just a beautiful depth of color that went beyond the resolution specs. I could have fit 32inch but it was just too heavy and not worth the hassle - I got the 30inch and my SD TiVo shows look great on it. I will hold onto both until next yera when I find value in a great flat panel HDTV for just under 1000$

[btwyx]

when you had the Sony WEGA play plain old SD from coax cable it was all washed out looking.I would suspect you're looking at a black level issue. There are 2 levels for black with NTSC (the standard one, and the sensible one) and if you get this wrong, you get a washed out pciture. What this does prove is you can never trust a monitor calibration in a shop. If a display looks like crap, it may be the calibration, or the diplay may be crap.