Series 3 HDMI Question

[amjustice]

Ok all you AV buffs, in anticipation for the upcoming Series 3 I have an HDMI/Audio question. Can I use HDMI for video and still hook up my audio using digital optical? My reciever does nto handle HDMI so I would like to use it for video if possible but cannot get the audio out of it yet.
Thanks,
AJ

[ah30k]

Similar boat here. My A/V amp (Denon) can do video switching using component cables but not HDMI. The same amp can handle both copper and optical digital audio.

You have three choices,
1) use a new surround amp that can handle HDMI switching (most convenient because you don't need to muck with your monitor's input selector when you move from DVD/TiVo/Radio) or

2) continue to use your current amp for all other video sourced except the TiVo HDMI which will go directly to the monitor as opposed to the video switch (this means that when you switch your amp's audio input to/from the TiVo you will need to hit your input selector on your TV) or

3) Use the Component output of your TiVo.

Either way, your audio will be fine.

I plan on using my componet output of the TiVo rather than the HDMI for the convenience factor. There will be some who argue the quality is better on HDMI but I don't think its that much. We also have to worry about any networks that force the down-resolution to less than full HD for any protected content. I think most networks have said they don't plan on using it now, but they could.

[Dan203]

The Series has both a HDMI output and a Toslink digital audio output, so this shouldn't be a problem at all.

Dan

[vman41]

Ok all you AV buffs, in anticipation for the upcoming Series 3 I have an HDMI/Audio question. Can I use HDMI for video and still hook up my audio using digital optical? My reciever does nto handle HDMI so I would like to use it for video if possible but cannot get the audio out of it yet.
Thanks,
AJ

That setup works fine with my DVD recorder and ATSC tuner - the DVI and HDMI cables go straight to the TV and their optical outputs go to my Yamaha receiver. The receiver doesn't care that the component inputs may be dead, it still processes the audio signals the same. For the HDMI into the TV, I have the volume on the set turned all the way down.

My receiver only has 2 component inputs and 1 component output but a total of 4 A/V inputs (DVD, DTV/CBL, VCR, V-AUX). The component inputs default to DVD and DTV/CBL, but you can remap them to different inputs. When I added my Xbox to the setup, I remapped the 'B' component input to VCR since I was only using the audio part of the DTV/CBL input with my ATSC tuner anyway.

[abdemaio]

I realize that the questions I'm about to ask may be unanswerable, but perhaps the experts here on the forum have additional information:

I have read posts in the Cablevision user forums detailing the difficulties of using the Cablevision HD DVR (which is an SA box) with an HDMI-switching capable AV receiver. Apparently, when plugged into the receiver, there is some kind of issue that fools the receiver or the TV (not sure which) into thinking there is an HDCP violation - bottom line, most users on the Cablevision forum seemed unable to use the DVR with the HDMI-switching receiver.

Question 1: does anyone (preferably a Cablevision subscriber) know if this is still the case?
Question 2: is there any reason to believe that the S3 will or will not have the same difficulty?

Thanks in advance for your insights.

[amjustice]

Ok, that is good to hear so basicly I can run this exactly how I have my XBox360 set up now having one cable for the video that goes directly into the TV, and a sepearate for the audio going to the reciever, so the reciever just deals with the audio. All I needed to know is that you think the Series 3 will transmit audio over the Optical even though it will be outputing video through the HDMI.

Also AH30K, I would love to get a new reciever with some phatty HDMI switching but just getting the dough together for the Series 3 is going to be enough. Just happy to hear that what I have now will work...For now

[Dan203]

TiVo is very strict about making things as simple as possible, so I seriously doubt an issue like that would make it through testing. However no one will really be able to answer that until the S3 is actually released.

Dan

[CCourtney]

Abdemaio,

You probably want to go surf the AVS Forum for more information on this. From what I've read the faulty party tends to be the Switch/AV Receiver not properly handling the HDCP. I've know several people to use the SA8300HD w/o a problem with HDMI switches, and others consitantly having it with particular HDMI switches (specifically certain Denon receivers.)

CCourtney

[abdemaio]

CCourtney ...

Thanks for the clarification. My info is out of date and I did not know that the issue had been narrowed down to the receivers. Just my luck, I own a Denon receiver and was thinking about upgrading to a Denon with HDMI switching - guess I'll be rethinking that!

By chance, do you know which brands of receivers are successfully able to perform HDMI switching?

[xkleyx]

CCourtney ...

Thanks for the clarification. My info is out of date and I did not know that the issue had been narrowed down to the receivers. Just my luck, I own a Denon receiver and was thinking about upgrading to a Denon with HDMI switching - guess I'll be rethinking that!

By chance, do you know which brands of receivers are successfully able to perform HDMI switching?

Depends on how much you want to spend. Denon has a receiver that has 5 HDMI inputs for $7000. Onkyo has some low-mid range recivers beginning at $500 (TX-SR604... and the TX-SR674 which is a little more). They both have 2 hdmi inputs. Monoprice also sells an HDMI switch with 5 inputs and equalizer for $130-this might be cheap and easy option for adding more inputs if you have an HDMI input on your tv, which I am guessing you do.

[abdemaio]

xkleyx ...

Thanks, but what I was hoping for was a recommendation on an AV receiver that does HDMI switching without the HDCP handling issues that CCourtney referred to in the post before mine. Apparently many of the Denon receivers have this problem, so I need to investigate other brands.

Anyone successfully used an HDMI switching receiver with a DVR, and if so what model/brand was it?

[ashu]

Monoprice also sells an HDMI switch with 5 inputs and equalizer for $130-this might be cheap and easy option for adding more inputs if you have an HDMI input on your tv, which I am guessing you do.

I own said MonoPrice 5x1 HDMI switch and can't praise it enough ... it has simultaneously supported TWO PCs spitting 1920x1080 to the TV, one Dish 811 HD player (known to be BAD about DVI/HDMI compliance/conversion), one Motorola 6412 HDMI DVR (also known to have issues) and a cheap Toshiba HD-upconverting DVD player. (I've since dumped Dish, but the other 4 devices work consistently!)

I'd avoid buying an HT receiver, or upgrading a perfectly good one *just* because it lacks HDMI switching. Seriously!

Oh, and as for the S3, I'd be stunned (and, unfortunately, out of the market for one!) if the S3 didn't simultaneously support TOSLink Audio out and HDMI-video-only :D
I hope someone in the know from TiVo can see and respond to this thread in the affirmative!

[abdemaio]

Again thanks ... I will investigate the 5x1 switcher. My AV receiver however is beginning to show why it was an open-box special so if I can find an adequate replacement that successfully performs HDMI switching, I will make the jump.

[CCourtney]

CCourtney ...

Thanks for the clarification. My info is out of date and I did not know that the issue had been narrowed down to the receivers. Just my luck, I own a Denon receiver and was thinking about upgrading to a Denon with HDMI switching - guess I'll be rethinking that!

By chance, do you know which brands of receivers are successfully able to perform HDMI switching?

Just to note it was not all Denon receivers w/ HDMI switching, and they may have fixes since then. I'd seriously recommend that you go look through the AVS Forum and do some research. You will be able to find receivers w/o the issue.

CCourtney

[abdemaio]

CCourtney ...

I will definitely be investigating AVS for the details and the latest word. For reasons that escape me, I am able to access the tivocommunity forum from work, but AVS is blocked by my employer - so the next night I get home in time to spend some quality AVS time, I'll continue the search.

Thank you for your guidance.

[Dan203]

I'm planning on just getting one of these...

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204port_toslink.htm

That way I can leave both my TV and receiver tuned to the same input and just use this switch to cycle between the S3 units. It's a heck of a lot cheaper then a new receiver and it says it's completely HDCP compliant.

Dan

[vman41]

I'm planning on just getting one of these...

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204port_toslink.htm



They'll throw in 4 6ft HDMI cables for $25 more, tells you something about the true cost of those cables.

[Dan203]

Monoprice.com has 6ft HDMI cables for $5.30 each if you buy 2-5 at a time, so that's actually a little expensive.

The $50 HDMI cables they sell at Best Buy are a total rip off!

Dan

[amjustice]

I'm planning on just getting one of these...

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204port_toslink.htm

That way I can leave both my TV and receiver tuned to the same input and just use this switch to cycle between the S3 units. It's a heck of a lot cheaper then a new receiver and it says it's completely HDCP compliant.

Dan

That is def a much cheeper option then getting a new reciever!

[ashu]

I'm planning on just getting one of these...

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204port_toslink.htm

Dan


Sweetness!

Now if only they added in video resolution upconversion and audio resampling (digitization) for analog inputs ... ;)

[megazone]

The $50 HDMI cables they sell at Best Buy are a total rip off!Yeah, I recently re-wired my A/V system for my new TV and I needed 2 TOSLink and 2 component cables, just 3' for all of them. I knew I could get them online, but I wanted to get it done *now*, so I ran down the road to Best Buy and it cost me around $80 for the four. And I bought the 'cheaper' Accoustic Research brand cables and not the 'expensive' Monster brand. They even had different makes of optical AR cable - I bought the 'cheap' ones, they had premium AR optical cables that were more expensive. WTF? Optical is optical - it works or it doesn't. It is a digital signal.

I will *never* buy Monster cables. They have *three* grades of HDMI cable! Even the lowest grade is over priced, and I don't know what the hell a 'better' HDMI cable is going to get you.

[ashu]

Well, spending $80 on $30 cables is no worse than being willing to spend 500+ on a lifetime sub.

That said, I waited (im)patiently for my TV to arrive when I ordered it, so I had more than enough time to preorder cables from monoprice ... I bet I would have been desperate enough to waste a little money at Best Buy myself, had that not been the case!

[megazone]

That said, I waited (im)patiently for my TV to arrive when I ordered it, so I had more than enough time to preorder cables from monoprice ... I bet I would have been desperate enough to waste a little money at Best Buy myself, had that not been the case!I have a lot of A/V cables accumulated, but I came up short in the re-wiring. Of course, now I have extra S-Video cables and the like since I switched to component on the new TV.

And I have WAY too many coax cables. I think I'll just throw some of those out to get rid of them. I just accumulate things.

[old guy 2]

Ashu, what card did you use to get HDMI output from the PCs? Does it work just like a typical computer monitor, or are only portions of the output available to the tv via HDMI?

My plan for my new condo is two DTV HD DVRs, a PC and a DVD changer distributed to 3 LCD HDTVs using a Geffen 4x4 switch matrix. I only plan on running one HDMI cable, one analog audio (for the PC) and a pair of Cat5 cables (for future expansion) to each TV.

[bkdtv]

Ashu, what card did you use to get HDMI output from the PCs? Does it work just like a typical computer monitor, or are only portions of the output available to the tv via HDMI?
Monoprice sells DVI->HDMI cables for about $15. TVs only support limitation resolutions, but once you select the right one (1280x720 @ 60Hz, etc), it works just like a monitor.

[old guy 2]

Thanks for the response. Is the DVI/HDMI cable solution universally compatible with today's new equipment? I know that I could never get my PC to display properly using DVI out and the DVI in on my old rear-projection lcd. It cut off 20% of the screen. But that was several years ago on the setup that my ex-wife now owns.

Does anyone have any advice or cautions regarding my plan to switch two HD DirecTV Tivo PVRs and a PC thru a 4x4 matrix to multiple locations? I have already learned from this and other threads that I cannot have a two channel audio solution in one location, and a 5.1 at another if I want to run HDMI cables only. I never would have realized that on my own - until it was too late. THANKS!

Should I wait for the new HD DirecTV Tivo?

[bkdtv]

Is the DVI/HDMI cable solution universally compatible with today's new equipment?
Yes, again, note that only select resolutions are universally compatible.

Should I wait for the new HD DirecTV Tivo?
There isn't a new HD DirecTivo Tivo. DirecTV has migrated to its own in-house software to save that $1.00/mo it was paying Tivo.