Too many caveats

[lordbah]

I feel like I'm drowning in all the caveats ...

In my ideal future, I have DirecTv with HD, I have a TiVo which can record HD, dual tuners would be very nice but maybe not an absolute necessity.

BUT - DirecTv doesn't have HD versions of my local channels yet (Rochester, NY) as far as I can find out. So, either DirecTv needs to offer me the major networks in HD from another market, or the TiVo needs to accept OTA HD input.

BUT - as far as my searches have found, the upcoming TiVo Series3 is the one which will record HD, and for some reason people are saying that it won't work with DirecTv.

BUT - turns out there's some kind of unit from DirecTv which is like a TiVo but with older TiVo software, as well as a unit from DirecTv which is a PVR nothing like a TiVo.

BUT - that older software is apparently due to be replaced by newer software some time soon, so maybe that's not so bad ...

BUT - that TiVo-like unit isn't being produced any more and there's a shortage?

BUT - the other PVR, it seems like a lot of people don't like.

BUT - mpeg4 is worrying people, apparently one or more of the pieces in the game don't support it?

AARRGGHH!!

Help me Mr. Wizard!

Is it possible to reach my ideal future?

[TonyD79]

Just get the "Tivo that is just like a Tivo" with the "older software."

It is just slow. Otherwise, it does the job.

They are still available and get locals OTA in the guide.

[rminsk]

BUT - DirecTv doesn't have HD versions of my local channels yet (Rochester, NY) as far as I can find out. So, either DirecTv needs to offer me the major networks in HD from another market, or the TiVo needs to accept OTA HD input.They do have a TiVo that takes OTA HD, it is called the HR10-250.BUT - as far as my searches have found, the upcoming TiVo Series3 is the one which will record HD, and for some reason people are saying that it won't work with DirecTv.The Series 3 is for cable card based systems. Satellite systems do not use cable card.BUT - turns out there's some kind of unit from DirecTv which is like a TiVo but with older TiVo software, as well as a unit from DirecTv which is a PVR nothing like a TiVo.

BUT - that older software is apparently due to be replaced by newer software some time soon, so maybe that's not so bad ...The HR10-250 is for all practical purposes. It is TiVo based hardware running TiVo software. DirecTV has a problem calling it a TiVo. There is a software update coming shortly to the HR10-250. It will speed up the units database access and add folder. It will not allow TiVo2Go and MRV because DirecTV does not want those features. What features are you looking for?BUT - that TiVo-like unit isn't being produced any more and there's a shortage?You can still get the HR10-250 from various sources including DirecTV and Costco. There is not a shortage I know of.

[TyroneShoes]

Technology is a moving target. A crystal ball is helpful.

Pioneers get the arrows while settlers get the land. IOW, it's tough to be on the bleeding edge as a consumer. Unfortunately, that's where any HD viewer finds themselves.

[annenoe]

I feel like I'm drowning in all the caveats ...

In my ideal future, I have DirecTv with HD, I have a TiVo which can record HD, dual tuners would be very nice but maybe not an absolute necessity.

I have that now. I have DirecTV with HD, I have a Tivo on which I record HD and it has dual tuner capability (which I don't use for reasons not pertinent to this discussion).

I'm a happy camper.

[tase2]

BUT - mpeg4 is worrying people, apparently one or more of the pieces in the game don't support it?

The afore mentioned HR10-250 will not be able to record any content received through MPEG4. Eventually all HD content will be shifted to MPEG4. All HD locals and most of the local HD sports channels will be beamed only through MPEG4. :(

[lordbah]

Forgot to say I do have NFL Sunday Ticket and would like to get that in HD too :-)

So it sounds like the HR10-250 would be the thing to get - BUT when HD stuff goes to mpeg4 then the HR10-250 won't work any more. *sigh* Is there a start date for the migration to mpeg4? What are you folks planning to do then?

[JimSpence]

If and when MPEG4 delivery is all that DirecTV delivers for HD, only then will I upgrade to the HR20. However, I will keep the HR10-250 for HD OTA and SD recording from DirecTV.

[annenoe]

Forgot to say I do have NFL Sunday Ticket and would like to get that in HD too :-)

So it sounds like the HR10-250 would be the thing to get - BUT when HD stuff goes to mpeg4 then the HR10-250 won't work any more. *sigh* Is there a start date for the migration to mpeg4? What are you folks planning to do then?

Many of us made the decision based on our ability to get the majors using OTA. I do not have the HD package so not worried when that goes to mpeg4. What I will lose eventually is HBOHD and ShowtimeHD (which I get now via full movie packages). I can currently record them w/ my HR10. Eventually, they will move to mpeg4 and I will no longer be able to see them.

The decision is very personal - it all has to do with what kind of HD programming you want and how important the tivo interface is - and no one can tell you what to do - it is a different decision for **everyone**.

In my case, I'm content being able to get the majors using OTA so in essence, my HR10 will be viable indefinitely. Also, (and this is once again a personal decision), I chose to invest the $400 **knowing** that the technology is not bleeding edge and is buggy. However, I'm convinced (once again, my personal decision) that it will be good to go for at least 2 years so was worth it to *me*.

My suggestion is to determine 1) if you can get your locals using an antenna 2) what you want/need to see in HD 3) how important tivo interface is 4) how willing you are to put up with less than 100% technology. And if you decide to go with HR10, do it with full knowledge of the risks.

The HR10 is by no means perfect. Read these forums and you'll see all kinds of complaints - software version is not being kept up to date with latest tivo updates, the boxes tend to be much slower than regular tivo (tho' there are many suggestions for fixing that), HDMI has problems, OTA tuners are not as good as your TV, yadda, yadda, yadda.

But, as many of us will tell you, we're willing to put up with less than 100% because the overriding desire was to be able to find a tivo interface compatible with HD. There are just as many folks who will tell you not to invest.

You can't listen to any of that - just educate yourself on what works, what doesn't and exactly what is most important to *you*. Then make your decision fully informed. These boards are (IMHO) the best source of information. But you have to read them and study them b/c you'll get a wide range of comments - some folks are "pollyannas", some folks are just plain negative and expect perfection, but many are pretty objective - you have to sort thru it all.

I can tell you that I have, so far, not regretted my decision (I'm a couple of months in) and I have run into some of the problems - still happy!

That said, I'm going to do my best not to bitch about all the failings that are well-documented here when I run into glitches.

[lordbah]

Thank you all for sharing your information, without shouting.

[SledgeHammer!]

I'm in the same boat as you, this is what my research shows:

I feel like I'm drowning in all the caveats ...
In my ideal future, I have DirecTv with HD, I have a TiVo which can record HD, dual tuners would be very nice but maybe not an absolute necessity.


All DirecTivos have dual tuners. As a matter of fact, the HR10-250 has QUAD tuners (2 OTA and 2 DTV). Anything less would be uncivilized.


BUT - DirecTv doesn't have HD versions of my local channels yet (Rochester, NY) as far as I can find out. So, either DirecTv needs to offer me the major networks in HD from another market, or the TiVo needs to accept OTA HD input.


Yes they do, they just don't want to give them to you because they are a**holes. DirecTV has had for years the LA and NY national feeds of ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and WB. You used to be able to get these by jumping through some hurdles, but since apperently last month, they wont give them to you no matter what. They'll instead tell you to get the monster 5 LNB dish and a POS NDS DVR. Which is NOT a Tivo. If you've ever seen/used a Tivo, you should know that something thats not a Tivo is definitely NOT a Tivo or even close. Sadly, the HR10-250 only supports the 3 LNB dish with no plans to "fix it".

According to my research though, you can pull in higher quality and higher quantity locals through the use of an OTA antenna. Which conviently integrates beautifully with the HR10-250 on the onscreen guide and all. This is currently the solution I'm planning.


BUT - as far as my searches have found, the upcoming TiVo Series3 is the one which will record HD, and for some reason people are saying that it won't work with DirecTv.


The series 3 is vapor ware, its been talked about longer then the 6.3 upgrade for the HR10-250. It may come, it may not. One thing is for sure, it will CERTAINLY NOT work with DirecTV.


BUT - turns out there's some kind of unit from DirecTv which is like a TiVo but with older TiVo software, as well as a unit from DirecTv which is a PVR nothing like a TiVo.

BUT - that older software is apparently due to be replaced by newer software some time soon, so maybe that's not so bad ...


The DirecTV HD-DVR is powered by software by NDS. All reports say it is highly inferior to Tivo and quite buggy.


BUT - that TiVo-like unit isn't being produced any more and there's a shortage?


Its still being made as far as I know...


BUT - the other PVR, it seems like a lot of people don't like.


cuz it sucks...



BUT - mpeg4 is worrying people, apparently one or more of the pieces in the game don't support it?


Eventually we will need to scrap our tivos for the MPEG4 solution. I dont like it anymore then you do. It IS possible that Tivo will release an MPEG4 version of the HR10-250 for DirecTV, but I'd say the chances are that are about as good as Bush finding Bin Laden.

[Jonathan_S]

All DirecTivos have dual tuners. As a matter of fact, the HR10-250 has QUAD tuners (2 OTA and 2 DTV). Anything less would be uncivilized.
While true, I wanted to point out (to avoid confusing anyone new to the HR10-250) that it can only record two shows at once; just like all the other DTiVos.

The user interface treats the four physical tuners just like two tuners that are each capable of recording from satellite or OTA (Over the Air).

[texasbrit]

Sledgehammer said, re "national" HD channels:
"Yes they do, they just don't want to give them to you because they are a**holes. DirecTV has had for years the LA and NY national feeds of ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and WB. You used to be able to get these by jumping through some hurdles, but since apperently last month, they wont give them to you no matter what."

As much as I complain about DirecTV, this one is not their fault. Blame the local TV stations and the NAB. The rules are very complex but basically you can only get "nationals" if you are in an area where you can't receive local stations OTA or from DirecTV. Notice I did not say local digital/HD stations.
The local stations are trying to protect their advertising revenue by making sure you watch their transmissions not the ones out of NY, LA etc.

[lordbah]

Sledgehammer said, re "national" HD channels:
"Yes they do, they just don't want to give them to you because they are a**holes. DirecTV has had for years the LA and NY national feeds of ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and WB. You used to be able to get these by jumping through some hurdles, but since apperently last month, they wont give them to you no matter what."

As much as I complain about DirecTV, this one is not their fault. Blame the local TV stations and the NAB. The rules are very complex but basically you can only get "nationals" if you are in an area where you can't receive local stations OTA or from DirecTV. Notice I did not say local digital/HD stations.
The local stations are trying to protect their advertising revenue by making sure you watch their transmissions not the ones out of NY, LA etc.

Which makes sense for *them*, but I find it very anti-free market. If I want to pay $5 for WFOO from Podunk, and DirecTv wants to sell it to me, no one should be able to prevent that trade. If my locals want my business, let them offer a better product - ah but they don't actually want my business, they don't get any money from me either way, they get money from advertisers, what they really want is for me to not have any other *choice* but them, so they can say to the advertisers, "look, we have a captive market of X size". I never agreed to that.

[tall1]

If and when MPEG4 delivery is all that DirecTV delivers for HD, only then will I upgrade to the HR20. However, I will keep the HR10-250 for HD OTA and SD recording from DirecTV.I will too. I was flipping through the NPL's on all 3 HDTivos and out of the several dozen recorded programs I had just one program (Bikini Destinations HDNet, renamed to Biking Destinations using TWP+) that was not recorded from either OTA or SD. I will be using my HDTivos for a long, long time.

[gglockner]

The afore mentioned HR10-250 will not be able to record any content received through MPEG4. Eventually all HD content will be shifted to MPEG4. All HD locals and most of the local HD sports channels will be beamed only through MPEG4. :(

Bingo! I just purchased (sorry, "leased") an HR10-250. I don't mind that I need OTA to get locals -- I have more choices OTA than I would for HD locals, and the PQ is better. But I agree that MPEG2 HD content is going to disappear in a couple of years. At that point, I'll have a few options:

a) Switch a S3 TiVo and (gasp!) cable
b) Hope that DirecTV has a solid, stable DVR (maybe the Microsoft MCE systems will be available at that point)

[SledgeHammer!]

Sledgehammer said, re "national" HD channels:
"Yes they do, they just don't want to give them to you because they are a**holes. DirecTV has had for years the LA and NY national feeds of ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX and WB. You used to be able to get these by jumping through some hurdles, but since apperently last month, they wont give them to you no matter what."

As much as I complain about DirecTV, this one is not their fault. Blame the local TV stations and the NAB. The rules are very complex but basically you can only get "nationals" if you are in an area where you can't receive local stations OTA or from DirecTV. Notice I did not say local digital/HD stations.
The local stations are trying to protect their advertising revenue by making sure you watch their transmissions not the ones out of NY, LA etc.

I live in Irvine, CA which is about 30 miles south of LA. Either through Cox Cable, rabbit ears, tin foil or standard def DirecTV, I pull in the same exact locals. The ones from LA. ABC, WB, NBC, CBS, FOX, etc all from the LA area. These are the SAME EXACT feeds (and advertisting) you will get on the national MPEG2 feeds for LA. For some reason, DirecTV has no problem giving me my standard def locals off the national feeds (well, I guess they are spot beamed now).

The MPEG2 HD feeds for LA and NY are the EXACT same feed as the MPEG4 HD feeds for LA and NY.

But they wont give you the MPEG2 versions anymore. Probably cuz they want to get rid of tivo.

[SledgeHammer!]

Which makes sense for *them*, but I find it very anti-free market. If I want to pay $5 for WFOO from Podunk, and DirecTv wants to sell it to me, no one should be able to prevent that trade. If my locals want my business, let them offer a better product - ah but they don't actually want my business, they don't get any money from me either way, they get money from advertisers, what they really want is for me to not have any other *choice* but them, so they can say to the advertisers, "look, we have a captive market of X size". I never agreed to that.

No kidding, especially since I haven't watched a single commercial in 3 yrs since I got my first tivo. I'll either turn on the TV and hit the pause button for 10 minutes to queue up some showage.. or just record it and start watching it after 10 minutes or so. I always FF through every single commercial. If I run out of my queue video, I'll either watch something else in my Now Playing list while it queues up some more, or pause it and go channel surfing on the other tuner.

Personally, of course I would rather have LA locals then NY locals even if I dont watch the advertising just because I'm anal like that. But I'm still going to fast forward through commercials on the MPEG4 feed. I just dont want to give up my tivo just yet.

[andbye]

Forgot to say I do have NFL Sunday Ticket and would like to get that in HD too :-)

So it sounds like the HR10-250 would be the thing to get - BUT when HD stuff goes to mpeg4 then the HR10-250 won't work any more. *sigh* Is there a start date for the migration to mpeg4? What are you folks planning to do then?

Since you are a sub to NFL Sun Ticket, the retention dept will probably give you a freebie HR10-250 HD Tivo with OTA that can be swapped later for an Mpeg 4 DVR when it becomes available. Lots of info on this deal in other threads

[lordbah]

One more question - you don't need to upgrade A/V receiver to to high-def do you? It's basically just a big switch as far as video is concerned isn't it?

[bkdtv]

One more question - you don't need to upgrade A/V receiver to to high-def do you? It's basically just a big switch as far as video is concerned isn't it?
You can just run the video input directly to your TV. If you need switching, most receivers produced in the past few years have component switching with sufficient bandwidth to do HDTV. If you have an older receiver with component switching, it will probably still switch HD over component, but there will be some PQ degradation if there isn't sufficient bandwidth.

[lordbah]

It's a Denon AVR-2400 which takes S-Video and the old RCA jacks, no Component. The current TV's best is S-Video as well, so looks like that's the way to go for now.