30 days "Outsourcing" 8-7-2006?

[myriadian]

howdy,

i've seen a few of the 30 days eps before and caught this one because i had set a SP so i could see the athiest ep coming up next week. i liked this episode. the guy from ny was so painfully midwestern but i think the trip to india was a really good experience for him.

M.

[pmyers]

I found it very interesting.

I will say that I got that waaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!! vibe from the guy in the start of the episode. I also wondered why he would have a child with his girlfriend and still not have a job.

[johnperkins21]

I don't know how he could live in New York and still say that India smells.

Also, he completely wussed out when talking about talent in India. From everything I've heard, the majority of Indian programmers write very poor code. There are definitely a few good ones out there, but they are not on the same level as American programmers. And he said that they were equal. My guess is he was afraid to start any sort of fight.

It's also funny to see that they think simply because we are in America, that we have (and/or can easily acquire) jobs.

[AccidenT]

Am I the only one that thinks Ravi is the Indian version of Corey Feldman? In fact, he should totally use that as his "American" name.

[Aniketos]

Am I the only one that thinks Ravi is the Indian version of Corey Feldman? In fact, he should totally use that as his "American" name.

THATS where I recognized him! :) When I was watching it I was getting some sorta vibe like I'd seen his face, you just nailed it on the head for me.

[charlesml3]

This guy really got a new perspective on the situation, didn't he? I think he got a lot more out of this than he expected.

He was a huge whiner at first but really came around. I just love "30 Days." I bought the Season 1 DVD. Morgan does an excellent job of putting someone it a new situation without letting it become preachy. He just presents it as it is and lets you decide.

The Illegal Immigrants episode was terrific.

-Charles

[jkindley]

I learned that if I call HP with a question and talk to Bob Johnson, that he lying to me just by saying "Hello my name is Bob Johnson how may I help you".

Another great episode.

[warrenn]

Also, he completely wussed out when talking about talent in India. From everything I've heard, the majority of Indian programmers write very poor code. There are definitely a few good ones out there, but they are not on the same level as American programmers. And he said that they were equal. My guess is he was afraid to start any sort of fight.


It was my impression that he was talking about the Indian programmers he had worked with in the US, saying that they were just as good as the US programmers. I would have to agree with that. I've worked with a number of Indian programmers here on-site and they are compararible to anyone else. Some were good, some were not so good. Just like US programmers.

However, I would say that the programmers we work with that are currently in India are not as good. We are constantly disappointed in the outsourced code we get back from India. We express this to our managers, but they are more concerned about the cost savings than the code quality right now.

The thing I was disappointed about the outsourced and immigration shows is that it confuses the issue between the people and problem. The illegals and the Indians may be wonderful people, but that doesn't mean that illegal immigration and outsourcing is wonderful. There are huge issues there and we shouldn't soften our stance just because the people are nice.

[myriadian]

i liked how it showcased the cultural stress that the modern indians endure when they take these jobs. it has to be strange to go thru rigorous training to have the indian extracted from you and some american grafted over the hole.

the scenes at home were nice. i'd like to hear the parents perspective on the wife getting a job and about the mega mall and 'westernization'.

so, i had to call some customer service of some company (i really can't remember which one) awhile ago and i got a Sally or Sarah who was obviously not really a Sally or Sarah. it was funny because i was thinking 'yeeeaaahhhh, that's your _real_ name.'. but, i will say, i don't mind getting a nice indian woman or man on the phone because in my experience they are actually trying to help and address my issues. it's much better than calling and getting some inner city hoochy who is obviously not even touching her keyboard or initiating a tracking ticket.

indians > innercity hoochies!

M.

[dcheesi]

I also wondered why he would have a child with his girlfriend and still not have a job.I'm not sure, but based on the timing of things they mentioned, she could have already been pregnant when he got laid off.

[Steveknj]

While I like 30 days, I found that this particular episode was flawed in it's premise. First of all, I doubt most Americans who's jobs were outsourced overseas hold much animosity to the Indian (or Philipino, or Indonesian, or whereever) who's trying to make a living in their country, and because of the cost of living in these places, naturally they could work for a lot less and live a good lifestyle. Heck, in some companies, they outsource jobs from high cost of living areas in the US (East Coast for instance) to lower paying areas of the country (say the deep south), because they can pay those folks less and live the same lifestyle there. I think most of these laid off folks hold the animosity to the corporation that laid them off or to corp America in genearal who basically have a "bottom line" mentality, sacrificing quality for cost.

The other flawed part of the show is that when the laid off worker goes to India, he doesn't get another programmers job, he gets a call center job, and not even one that involves any kind of technical knowledge. It would have been much better if he got a job being a programmer in India (such as the company who he lost his job to, Tata), and see what it's like for those programmers who replaced him. It really didn't work for me the way they did it.

[EchoBravo]

innercity hoochies:rolleyes:

[pmyers]

While I like 30 days, I found that this particular episode was flawed in it's premise. ...The other flawed part of the show is that when the laid off worker goes to India, he doesn't get another programmers job, he gets a call center job, and not even one that involves any kind of technical knowledge. It would have been much better if he got a job being a programmer in India (such as the company who he lost his job to, Tata), and see what it's like for those programmers who replaced him. It really didn't work for me the way they did it.

+1 :up: I would have loved to have seen him get a job at the company he got outsourced by.

[TAsunder]

I think most of these laid off folks hold the animosity to the corporation that laid them off or to corp America in genearal who basically have a "bottom line" mentality, sacrificing quality for cost.

And the american guy did feel this. And when he came back, he didn't. I don't see how that makes it flawed. He saw that the people there needed the job more and didn't feel as bad about losing his job.

The other flawed part of the show is that when the laid off worker goes to India, he doesn't get another programmers job, he gets a call center job, and not even one that involves any kind of technical knowledge.

They specifically stated that he couldn't get a programming job because it required years of experience in the local industry. I don't think the point of the show was to contrast indian programming with american programming anyway, because that would be interesting for about 0.001% of the audience. Especially since his resume showed COBOL which is about the lamest language on the planet. The point was to contrast the lifestyle and work ethics and the way workers are treated.

[Cue-Ball]

They specifically stated that he couldn't get a programming job because it required years of experience in the local industry. This seemed like a total lie to me. Why would he need knowledge of the local industry when they're all American companies? He doesn't need knowledge of the local industry to perform those jobs any more than the guy who makes the web site for KFC has to know the Colonel's secret recipe.

[nataylor]

This seemed like a total lie to me. Why would he need knowledge of the local industry when they're all American companies? He doesn't need knowledge of the local industry to perform those jobs any more than the guy who makes the web site for KFC has to know the Colonel's secret recipe.My guess is, unlike the call center jobs, the local programmers used a lot more Hindu in everyday conversation. That would have made communicating for him impossible.

[MrGreg]

I think the real reason is that most tech jobs take weeks or months to get up to speed and really be productive. I doubt any tech company would be willing to hire somebody for just 30 days given that ramp up time. A call center job, however, you can be productive after only a day or two of training. The show probably also preferred he worked in a call center, since the difficulties and issues there would be much easier for the common american viewer to grasp than the issues that would come up working on some mainframe.

In reality I'm sure the Indian tech companies would LOVE to have an american working there simply to act as a liason to US counterparts. In my experience the communication and cultural differences are some of the major difficulties when working with offshore employees. Having an american in India as a buffer would be a huge advantage.

[ncsercs]

"That is a really nice car!" :rolleyes:

[ElJay]

After I graduated from college in 2003 with a computer science degree, I spent over two and a half years looking for a computer programming/software engineering job. Finally I got one thanks to patience plus a very lucky bit of "networking." So I kind of understand what this guy feels like, though I don't have a kid to support.

I was annoyed, like others in this thread, that they had him in a call center instead of coding. I expect/hope that he did know programming languages beyond COBOL, and I would have liked to have seen the inside of a software shop over there. I don't understand how that would have been less interesting than seeing him work on a phone.

Overall it was an interesting hour of TV, though it didn't change my opinion on offshoring at all. (I still despise it.)