Request: Detailed Info on Suggestions & Thumbs

[DJRizzo]

I've had my TiVo for about a week and am thrilled with it. I'm quite fascinated by the Suggestions feature and how it works with the thumb ratings. I've read several general comments on here about how other members use (or don't use) these features; but I'm more curious in the real details of how it works. I have specific questions and hypotheticals I'd love to ask.

But before I do that I thought I'd open by asking if anyone can just direct me to a more detailed description of how this works.

Thanks.

[mick66]

TiVo (the company) has not shared that information with the public.

[DJRizzo]

TiVo (the company) has not shared that information with the public.

I'm not looking for algorithms or anything that could spoil a trade secret. I'm just curious about what kind of information is affected.

For example, if I give thumbs down to The O'Reilly Factor does it assume I don't like news talk programs? What if I also give thumbs up to The Countdown with Keith Olbermann. Would TiVo be able to calculate that I <u>do</u> like news talk but I don't like O'Reilly? I guess I'm just wondering how "smart" I can assume TiVo is when I'm doling out the thumbs.

[maki]

If you push Enter while viewing a show description it shows you detailed info. I believe much of the information TiVo uses is in this data. It looks at related shows, the actors, the type of show, etc. and I suppose accumulates all the relations together from all of your thumbs up and thumbs down settings.

[ZeoTiVo]

there was this recent thread on thumbs and what I said there
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4251943&&#post4251943


there is no published data on how the thumbs specifically work. And they just overhauled suggestions to try and make the predictions better so anything out there will be out of date anyway.

[megazone]

Except they have shared some info over the years. And some used to be exposed in Teach TiVo back in 2.0.

When you rate a program the rating applies to the categories, actors, director. So if you thumb down a program that is 'animation' the TiVo is less likely to record animation - but say you thumb down one show that is both animation and childrens, but thumb up other shows that are animation but not childrens - it'll be more likely to record animation in general, but not childrens animation.

It is basically positive and negative weighting.

The algorithm also applies your ratings against the general aggregated data that is uploaded from each unit and processed at TiVo. So if a lot of people who have similar weightings to you record something, or rate that other thing highly, your unit may record it for you. Kind of if a lot of people who record A also record B, and you record A, it'll check out B for you. But it seems to be more complex than that.

The actual algorithm is not published.

[BigJim]

I read that TiVo did improve its suggestion engine in one of the recent software releases--here's what I know.

Had a bad day one Friday at work, and came home tired and depressed. Had to mow the lawn, and was even more tired when I sat down with a beer to watch TiVo. There was not much in Now Playing that I liked, so I went to look at suggestions. There, both recorded withing the previous 12 hours, and on pay channels (no commercials), were Blazing Saddles and Stripes. Two of may favorites. I had never thumbed them before, but it knew I'd like them and recorded them...

My wife said, "That's nice. TiVo was thinking of you." :)

[pdhenry]

I read that TiVo did improve its suggestion engine in one of the recent software releasesI have SPs for both Letterman and Leno -- Usually I get the current Letterman (if it's a first run) and a ~week old Leno from the "NBC All Night" feed. The old suggestion engine used to pick up Conan if nothing else was scheduled. The new engine hasn't recorded a single Conan. But it has picked up Carson Daly once in awhile

[dswallow]

If you install TiVoWebPlus you can see much of the data that gets used to make decisions about suggestions, though the specific algorithm isn't publicly available, you can see the general concept in more detail.

[JustAllie]

My wife said, "That's nice. TiVo was thinking of you." :)
I love it when that happens. My TiVos love me! :D

TiVo Suggestions help me get through TV repeat season.

[DJRizzo]

The algorithm also applies your ratings against the general aggregated data that is uploaded from each unit and processed at TiVo. So if a lot of people who have similar weightings to you record something, or rate that other thing highly, your unit may record it for you. Kind of if a lot of people who record A also record B, and you record A, it'll check out B for you. But it seems to be more complex than that.

Thanks megazone. That's the kind of thing I was curious about. I figured there was either a lot more data assigned to the the programs than I saw in the info screens or there was some other human element to it because since I've been rating shows and channels it keeps getting a lot smarter. Reminds me of stories I've read about the Amazon.com suggestions model.

After hearing Patton Oswalt's TiVo joke a couple years ago I was dying to see what kinds of suggestions I'd get. I had my "TiVo Thinks I'm Gay" moment the 2nd day I owned it. Except in my case TiVo didn't think I was gay, it thought I spoke Spanish! Easily 85% of my suggestion list was Spanish Language! Then again, I don't know what the shows were about since I couldn't read the descriptions... maybe they were gay Spanish shows!! LOL. The weird thing is I don't speak Spanish but I am part Mexican!!

The following weekend TiVo thought I was a kid. Just like in your animation example, I had given thumbs up to Simpsons & South Park so it recorded several cartoons and suggested kids programming. I thumbed the kiddie stuff down. After that the only animation it's recorded or suggested was King of the Hill, Futurama, and Adult Swim programming.

The actual algorithm is not published.

Even if it was I wouldn't know how the hell it worked! Not a math guy! I just mentioned the algorithm to illustrate that I wasn't looking for trade secrets; just a little more insight like the info you gave me. Thanks again.

there was this recent thread on thumbs and what I said there
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4251943&&#post4251943
there is no published data on how the thumbs specifically work. And they just overhauled suggestions to try and make the predictions better so anything out there will be out of date anyway.

I actually read your post a couple days before posting my question and immediately started being less generous with the 2-thumbs and 3-thumbs now. That definitely improved the suggestions. Thanks.

There was not much in Now Playing that I liked, so I went to look at suggestions. There, both recorded withing the previous 12 hours, and on pay channels (no commercials), were Blazing Saddles and Stripes. Two of may favorites. I had never thumbed them before, but it knew I'd like them and recorded them...

Love both of those movies, too. A few days ago my TiVo suddenly started to pick out some of my favorites for me, like Airplane!, Full Metal Jacket, Raising Arizona, Spider-Man, and more. It made me smile, too. It's also what made me so curious about how it works.

One thing I'm finding TiVo suggestions helpful with is reminding me about shows I'd forgotten about. For example, I loved the BBC's Office but never saw the NBC one. Since I like Steve Carrell I always wanted to check it out but didn't because I work every Thursday night. I had completely forgotten about it until TiVo suggested it, so I'll finally get to see if I like it as much as I liked the BBC one.

I just have one more question on this topic: anyone know if when TiVo thinks your watching Live TV does it collect any information on what your watching? It would make sense if it does... just more data to add to your profile. But I hope it doesn't because when my girlfriend is here and I'm not she likes to watch Lifetime Movies and Dr. Phil!! Nooooo!! :D

[Jonathan_S]

After hearing Patton Oswalt's TiVo joke a couple years ago I was dying to see what kinds of suggestions I'd get. I had my "TiVo Thinks I'm Gay" moment the 2nd day I owned it. Except in my case TiVo didn't think I was gay, it thought I spoke Spanish! Easily 85% of my suggestion list was Spanish Language!Based on posts here (any my limited personal experience) it seems that many TiVos go through the spanish suggestions phase.

My guess is that the 'spanish' tag in the guide data that is attached to every show with a spanish secondary audio track is what causes this.

Early on you are more likely to be giving thumbs up than thumbs down, and many of the network shows (which you are likely to be setting recordings for) have SAP tracks. So the spanish category accumulates lots of thumbs up because of the thumbs up on shows that have spanish, but accumulates relatively few thumbs down because you aren't using many thumbs down yet.

Then the TiVo would start recording every spanish show, until you start giving those thumbs down and it figures out that you don't actually love spanish TV.
But that is just my theory.

[cmc850]

I got my first unit several years ago. When I awoke the first morning after I plugged it in, it had two shows in suggestions - one was the Howard Stern Show, and the other was Pat Robertson! I deleted the Pat Robertson....maybe this was a quick way to sort you into two camps...!

[ZeoTiVo]

it thought I spoke Spanish! Easily 85% of my suggestion list was Spanish Language!

For me the Spanish happened on my first TiVo adn then I noticed in Dora the Eplorer recorded for my kids it had Spanish in one of the categories. so I changed Dora from the one thumb up it got for being a season pass to one thumb down and the Spanish tapered off.