7.3.1 and Return of the Reboot

[EwanG]

Had been having problems with the TCP on the Tivo needing to be reset on a daily basis. Basically it would run fine, but stop talking with the network, and so I would need to unplug the USB adapter, give it a minute, and then replug it to get the Tivo talking again.

So, I decided to sign up for the Priority List for 7.3.1 to see if it would be more stable. That appears to not have been a good idea because once i got 7.3.1 the random reboots have come back. In fact, just this morning, we were watching a recorded show when the Tivo rebooted mid-episode.

Is it just me? Any suggestions on what I can do?

[CaviarTung]

3 reboots today while watching a program that was recording. At least, I'm only aware of three. I've lost count of how many times just this weekend when I pushed the TiVo button and the animation started up as if it just got an update. What is going on? Is this a new feature of the latest update? I don't like it at all.

I remember some stuttering last night while watching a soccer game, but no reboot. I remember some stuttering while watching a prerecorded Futurama last night, that eventually led to a reboot. Today, it's rebooted twice while I was watching Patriot Games live, no stuttering. After the first reboot, I decided to record it while watching so now I have 2 partial recordings of Patriot Games, one before and one after the reboot.

Series2 140 with aftermarket harddrives(223 hours). The drives aren't that old. Linksys USB100TX for ethernet.

Any insight is appreciated. I'm going to be getting 3 wisdom teeth pulled this week and I will be heavily dependent on TiVo to keep my sanity while in bed recovering.

[mchips]

3 reboots today while watching a program that was recording. At least, I'm only aware of three. I've lost count of how many times just this weekend when I pushed the TiVo button and the animation started up as if it just got an update. What is going on? Is this a new feature of the latest update? I don't like it at all.

I remember some stuttering last night while watching a soccer game, but no reboot. I remember some stuttering while watching a prerecorded Futurama last night, that eventually led to a reboot. Today, it's rebooted twice while I was watching Patriot Games live, no stuttering. After the first reboot, I decided to record it while watching so now I have 2 partial recordings of Patriot Games, one before and one after the reboot.

Series2 140 with aftermarket harddrives(223 hours). The drives aren't that old. Linksys USB100TX for ethernet.

Any insight is appreciated. I'm going to be getting 3 wisdom teeth pulled this week and I will be heavily dependent on TiVo to keep my sanity while in bed recovering.http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4125367&&#post4125367

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150747

[EwanG]

MCHIPS - the problem is that there doesn't appear to be any way to determine if it's a hard drive problem, or an OS problem. For a while, a number of us were having reboots that turned out to be related to an OS problem with standalone Series 2s. This seemed to have been fixed, only now that I've gotten the 7.3.1 upgrade it appears to be happening again.

So, how do I tell if Tivo has failed to properly regression test an issue, or if I just happen to have the coincidence of reboots with the upgrade to 7.3.1?

Thanks,
Ewan

[mchips]

MCHIPS - the problem is that there doesn't appear to be any way to determine if it's a hard drive problem, or an OS problem. For a while, a number of us were having reboots that turned out to be related to an OS problem with standalone Series 2s. This seemed to have been fixed, only now that I've gotten the 7.3.1 upgrade it appears to be happening again.

So, how do I tell if Tivo has failed to properly regression test an issue, or if I just happen to have the coincidence of reboots with the upgrade to 7.3.1?

Thanks,
Ewan My post above was mainly meant for CaviarTung since he/she stated they're experiencing the stuttering issue, which can lead to reboots... but if you're not... ??

However, a few people with DT's, albeit a small handful, have mentioned having reboot problems (although these same people mentioned having them before 7.3 as well, though at least one person is trying to blame it on 7.3 even though they had them under 7.2.5 as well).

I have five TiVo's (three DT's, a 540, and a 140) all with 7.3.1, and I'm not experiencing any reboot/freeze issues on any of my TiVo's...

I remember that reboot issue you mentioned, but it affected quite a large number of those here on the TCF, making it more than just a few isolated incidents, and that's the one that got fixed... there was also another reboot issue here recently affecting some people when they tried to get into the Recording History; that one was also fixed.

There always seems to be a few reports of reboots, and I haven't yet seen any new widespread reports, other than a few isolated incidents (which could be due to a number of things, including a person's own network environment or drive).

If you have upgraded your drives, have a backup image and know how to reimage your TiVo drive, you could always try that to see if it clears it up.

Or, you could also try the kickstart codes #57 & #58 (mfs check/cleanup) or #52 (software reinstall), outlined in the following link:

http://69.28.82.116/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10112421

Before doing any of these, I would recommend copying all of your recordings that you don't want to lose to your PC first.

Or do nothing and just live with it hoping it'll be fixed in a future update, that's if it even can be... this reboot issue doesn't seem widespread enough yet to be a global issue. I know that TiVo is always trying to find the root causes and preventions for all isolated reboots, but that may prove to be a very difficult task considering the countless unique environments all of our TiVo's are in.

If you didn't have it under 7.3, but then did with 7.3.1, that could simply be because of the partition switch that happens during a software update. There are two partitions. A software update is installed to the partition not in use at that time, and then the system switches over to that partition. If your system already had some sector problems, or sector problems were created during the update, it could cause reboots. Kickstart codes #57/58 may be able to fix some of those problems, or #52 could switch you back to the other partition.

I am able to reimage my TiVo drives in less than an hour, so whenever I experience stuttering/pixelation/reboot issues, I reimage, and I've always then been good to go for several months. I've never had to replace a drive yet, in over three years.

But then I always take a proactive approach instead of just sitting back and waiting for something to resolve itself.

One question, have you been transferring any recordings (MRV/TTG) during any of these reboots? That seems to be one common thread among those having these isolated reboot issues (outside of the stuttering/pixelation/drive issues).

Have you rebooted your router recently? That might help...

You could also try unplugging the network adapter from the TiVo, switching back over to the phone line to see if the reboots go away... if they do, then it sounds like it may be network related (which is my own personal theory of some of these reboots, again outside the stuttering/pixelation/drive issues)...

In summary, if it were me, I'd try the following in this order:

1. Unplug network adapter from TiVo, Shut down PC(s), Reboot router, then Plug adapter back in, and power PC(s) back up.
2. MFS Check #57
3. MFS Cleanup #58
4. Software Reinstall #52
5. Reimage
6. Switch to phone for a couple of weeks

Note when doing the kickstart codes #57/58, it will cause a GSOD (green screen of death) while it searches the drive and fixes any problem... it will also cause numerous reboots during this process, easily taking well over an hour, so patience is required with these. I've never done the #52 software reinstall, so I don't know how that one reacts, but if the problem is just on one partition, that could conceivably clear it up, until the next software update.

I wish you luck, and hopefully, best case scenario, it's just a passing phase and will clear itself up.

What kind of TiVo, router and network adapter are you using?

[EwanG]

My post above was mainly meant for CaviarTung since he/she stated they're experiencing the stuttering issue, which can lead to reboots... but if you're not... ??

Nope. Was just having the TCP issues that I thought going from 7.2.2 (I think - should have written it down) to 7.3.1 might fix. Should be more careful what I wish for :)

I have five TiVo's (three DT's, a 540, and a 140) all with 7.3.1, and I'm not experiencing any reboot/freeze issues on any of my TiVo's...

Which is useful info. I have two Tivo's, but the newer Tivo is hardly used, so even when the reboot problem was prevelent, it took a while before I saw it on that one. Given your experience, unless there are a lot more folks who just haven't posted, I may have to accept that my system may need some tuning.

I remember that reboot issue you mentioned, but it affected quite a large number of those here on the TCF, making it more than just a few isolated incidents, and that's the one that got fixed... there was also another reboot issue here recently affecting some people when they tried to get into the Recording History; that one was also fixed.

Right. Which is why I posted to see if this time it was just me.

Or, you could also try the kickstart codes #57 & #58 (mfs check/cleanup) or #52 (software reinstall), outlined in the following link:

http://69.28.82.116/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10112421

Before doing any of these, I would recommend copying all of your recordings that you don't want to lose to your PC first.

I'll give those a shot. To be honest, I'm rather tempted to just reimage the system since I've never done that. However, it's a dual drive system, and the only computer I have that I could possibly use with the InstantCake CD (which I assume has an image on it?) has a SATA hard drive, and I don't think that MFSTools includes SATA support, right?

If you didn't have it under 7.3, but then did with 7.3.1, that could simply be because of the partition switch that happens during a software update. There are two partitions. A software update is installed to the partition not in use at that time, and then the system switches over to that partition. If your system already had some sector problems, or sector problems were created during the update, it could cause reboots. Kickstart codes #57/58 may be able to fix some of those problems, or #52 could switch you back to the other partition.

Which is why I'll make sure to check those out.

One question, have you been transferring any recordings (MRV/TTG) during any of these reboots? That seems to be one common thread among those having these isolated reboot issues (outside of the stuttering/pixelation/drive issues).

Nope. I always try to make sure I schedule transfers from the Tivo for late at night to minimize the chance that the Tivo is doing anything else at the same time. Obviously I have a little less ability to control the timing of transfers TO the Tivo, but none were in progress for the times I've seen this happen.

Have you rebooted your router recently? That might help...

Haven't, but I agree that it's probably worth a shot.

You could also try unplugging the network adapter from the TiVo, switching back over to the phone line to see if the reboots go away... if they do, then it sounds like it may be network related (which is my own personal theory of some of these reboots, again outside the stuttering/pixelation/drive issues)...

If there were a phone outlet anywhere near that Tivo, I probably would. As it is, it's the Tivo on a Wired connection, while my other Tivo that isn't rebooting is on wireless. Go figure...

In summary, if it were me, I'd try the following in this order:

1. Unplug network adapter from TiVo, Shut down PC(s), Reboot router, then Plug adapter back in, and power PC(s) back up.
2. MFS Check #57
3. MFS Cleanup #58
4. Software Reinstall #52
5. Reimage
6. Switch to phone for a couple of weeks

Note when doing the kickstart codes #57/58, it will cause a GSOD (green screen of death) while it searches the drive and fixes any problem... it will also cause numerous reboots during this process, easily taking well over an hour, so patience is required with these. I've never done the #52 software reinstall, so I don't know how that one reacts, but if the problem is just on one partition, that could conceivably clear it up, until the next software update.


Will try the first three, and possibly number 4, and see what happens. Wouldn't mind just jumping to number 5 if I could figure out a way to do it. May need to see what it would cost to send the unit to PTVUpgrade or Weaknees to refurbish the unit. Since both of mine are lifetimes, I hope to have them for many years to come.

Thanks again,
Ewan

[CaviarTung]

And now I don't have any video at all. Unplugging the power and plugging back in makes all the different colored lights on the front panel light up and stay lit. No response from the remote. Blank blue screen on tv is indicating it's not getting a video signal. Wonderful. I guess I'll be going to Staples tomorrow and grabbing the cheapest 200-300GB drive they got and spending tomorrow night swapping drives between my tivo and linux boxes. I'll come back here to try out the suggestions already made.

[CaviarTung]

TiVo opened. When I plug the power cable in, only the fan comes on. Voltmeter shows no current going to either of the harddrives. Is my TiVo toast?

Update:
This site is great. Found out it's a known problem with the power supply on my particular Series2 TiVo:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=247903
http://www.weaknees.com/tcd140060-repair.php

Switching the voltmeter to DC also helped with troubleshooting. Just ordered a replacement power supply.

[EwanG]

In summary, if it were me, I'd try the following in this order:

1. Unplug network adapter from TiVo, Shut down PC(s), Reboot router, then Plug adapter back in, and power PC(s) back up.
2. MFS Check #57
3. MFS Cleanup #58
4. Software Reinstall #52

Well, so far so interesting. I wish someone would post a video of when exactly to hit the pause button to cause the fault, because it took me several tries. And when I finally got the timing right, I entered in the code 58 (is the # key even on the remote), and then was told the Tivo was loading a service upgrade, which sounds more like code 52. So, we'll see how it works now after a day or two.

Again, if I decided to do option 5 (reimage), I assume I'd need to find a different computer to use as the host since I understand there is no SATA support for the current setup, correct?

FWIW,
Ewan

[mchips]

Again, if I decided to do option 5 (reimage), I assume I'd need to find a different computer to use as the host since I understand there is no SATA support for the current setup, correct? If your PC has IDE ports as well, then you should be able to use that PC... you can't be using SATA drives with your TiVo, so you wouldn't want to be using any SATA drives, and they should probably be unplugged while you do the reimage, anyway, so you don't accidentally boot into Windows with the TiVo drives attached, as Windows XP can rewrite the boot sector of the TiVo drive... just plug your PATA TiVo drives into the IDE ports, if present. If not, then you may need another PC that does.

One of my PCs has SATA drives, but it also has IDE ports that I can use to reimage my TiVo drives.

[EwanG]

My main PC has only one IDE/ATA port for the DVD/CD drive. I could certainly get a cable to attach that and one drive, but my Tivo is a dual drive system. So without SATA support, I'm pretty much "hosed" :-)

Since I did the reboot and it appeared to do the patch reload I haven't had the system freeze during a show or recording, but I am still seeing the daily problem where the Tivo stops talking to the network. Is it possible that the USB port is failing? Maybe I should try plugging the adapter into the other port (there are two, right)? Or would that force me to rerun the guided setup?

Thanks again,
Ewan

[unixb0y]

My main PC has only one IDE/ATA port for the DVD/CD drive. I could certainly get a cable to attach that and one drive, but my Tivo is a dual drive system. So without SATA support, I'm pretty much "hosed" :-)

Since I did the reboot and it appeared to do the patch reload I haven't had the system freeze during a show or recording, but I am still seeing the daily problem where the Tivo stops talking to the network. Is it possible that the USB port is failing? Maybe I should try plugging the adapter into the other port (there are two, right)? Or would that force me to rerun the guided setup?

Thanks again,
Ewan

I get the fealing that 7.3.1 is the issue. I'm also having freeze/rebooting issues.

I'm going to run spinrite on both of my drives. If that doesn't locate a problem, then i'll check if the swap size is correct for a 80GB (drive 1) and a 300GB (drive 2). This i'll have to reasearch.

Case temperature isn't an issue since it's 40celcius.

UPDATE: I removed the wireless USB nic

[morydd]

I'm having reboot issues as well. I've got a S2, 80hr, purchased directly from Tivo in March. Had no problems until the most recent software update, and am now getting reboots several times a day. (At least 3 in a 2 hour period yesterday).
Temp seems fine, tivo is plugged into a UPS, I've disconnected the network adaptor entirely, and the problem hasn't diminished in the least.
As Fry might say: Are we boned?
Are we looking at significant downtime/expense to get this taken care of?

[unixb0y]

I did a Pause 57 as per http://69.28.82.116/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10112421 and things seem better.

I havn't seen if it rebooted yet BUT it hasn't freezed in about 12hrs.

[Daffiduck]

I am having reboot issues. I just am new to TIV (1 week) and learned how to download my saved programs to my HD when it rebooted. This has sent the one program into a download loop. It finishes and starts "transferring" again. I haven't caught it in time to stop the transfer when it starts again. Sometimes it reboots also

I will try again tonight and watch the progress.

Now that I have read a few threads, I am beginning to suspect the updates, but still have an underlying issue of trying to transfer this one program which wont "stop".

Any ideas?