Ugh, my head is going to explode, am I understanding my HD Tivo/DTV options?

[msu2k]

Ok, I've been a very loyal DTV and Tivo fan since 1999. Never saw a need to upgrade from my Series 1 and it's still running as well today (knock on wood) as it did the day I bought it and upgraded it. Swore that I'd never go back to cable, can't see living with a DVR inferior to Tivos. Well, our 15 year old TV is dying and it's getting time to buy an HDTV. I've been reading for over an hour trying to figure this all out. Am I understanding my options correctly?

Ditch DTV, switch back to Comcast which will soon have Tivo software
Ditch DTV, switch back to Comcast, wait for a Series 3 Tivo
Ditch Tivo, switch to a (I assume) inferior UI on the new DTV HD DVR (HR-20)
Buy a HR-10 Tivo, keep DTV but it will be crippled and not be able to record high def. locals in the future
Keep my current DTivo, keep DTV, be stuck with standard def. on my shiny new HDTV


Am I at least understanding my options correctly? I'm getting a headache. :(

[aztivo]

Ok, I've been a very loyal DTV and Tivo fan since 1999. Never saw a need to upgrade from my Series 1 and it's still running as well today (knock on wood) as it did the day I bought it and upgraded it. Swore that I'd never go back to cable, can't see living with a DVR inferior to Tivos. Well, our 15 year old TV is dying and it's getting time to buy an HDTV. I've been reading for over an hour trying to figure this all out. Am I understanding my options correctly?

Ditch DTV, switch back to Comcast which will soon have Tivo software
Ditch DTV, switch back to Comcast, wait for a Series 3 Tivo
Ditch Tivo, switch to a (I assume) inferior UI on the new DTV HD DVR (HR-20)
Buy a HR-10 Tivo, keep DTV but it will be crippled and not be able to record high def. locals in the future
Keep my current DTivo, keep DTV, be stuck with standard def. on my shiny new HDTV


Am I at least understanding my options correctly? I'm getting a headache. :(
Yup you got it all

[msu2k]

Yup you got it allObviously it's a personal choice for everyone but what option are people trending towards?

[hijammer]

I just got a new HD TV i think Im doign some thign inbetween 5 and 2. Stick with DTV now and have an OTA antenna up till the serires 3 comes out then ditch DTV. My local market is also not supported by DTV so that sucks all together.

[HomieG]

I think you've got those options down very well.

I went through exactly the same thing from January until early June. Beyond my OTA antenna which picked up all my local DTV signals just fine, I did not have any other HD sources. And DirecTV in SD looked like crap on my Sony SXRD. Continued to weigh the options, then switched to Comcast in early June. Sure, their HD-DVR interface sucks, and doesn't have some of the TiVo funtionality, but that may be changing soon. Otherwise, it does work, records scheduled shows, and price-wise it's a pretty decent deal.

But the biggest improvements for us were significantly better picture quality in SD, and their HD quality as well. Comcast, at least in my area, has done an admirable job. And overall, the pricing was within a few dollars of that for similar selection from DirecTV.

Frankly, the picture quality became the bigger plus for me. Yea, the DVR is important, but if picture quality sucks, as it does on DirecTV, on an HD set TV viewing is less than enjoyable in SD or HD. Picture quality affects every single show one watches. I am so very pleased with my change.

Another plus is that cable distribution in our house to other TV's is much easier than it was with D*.

Finally, I am also planning to switch from DSL to cable internet soon. For the same price I can get about 5x the download speed, and about 4x upload speed with cable internet. So DSL goes, and in comes cable internet too.

Maybe someday the picture quality pendulum will swing back towards D*, but for now, in my case, Comcast cable was the right choice. And I liked D* a lot, but the difference in PQ was too great for me to stay with them.

And I get less headaches now that I made the change and stopped thinking about it :)

P.S. I've posted something similar now in several threads. I'm not bashing D*, just stating what worked for me, for now. For some, the D* PQ may be acceptable, and it was for us too with our SD TV's. But once we made the move to HDTV's, everything changed for us in terms of wanting better PQ.

[msu2k]

But the biggest improvements for us were significantly better picture quality in SD, and their HD quality as well. Comcast, at least in my area, has done an admirable job. And overall, the pricing was within a few dollars of that for similar selection from DirecTV.

Frankly, the picture quality became the bigger plus for me. Yea, the DVR is important, but if picture quality sucks, as it does on DirecTV, on an HD set TV viewing is less than enjoyable in SD or HD. Picture quality affects every single show one watches. I am so very pleased with my change.

Maybe someday the picture quality pendulum will swing back towards D*, but for now, in my case, Comcast cable was the right choice. And I liked D* a lot, but the difference in PQ was too great for me to stay with them.

Are the PQ issues you're referring to with DTV specific to HDTVs? I've always thought our SD PQ on DTV has been much better than digital cable SD at friends' houses.

[JimSpence]

I have to argue about your #4 conclusion. This would only be true is you plan to get your local HD from DirecTV. I don't know where Holt is in relation to larger cities, so check www.antennaweb.org for the possibility of getting HD via OTA antenna. The HR10-250 which is TiVo based will continue to record OTA for some time. And, I believe that the DirecTV HD channels will remain MPEG2 for quite a while as well. Also, DirecTV will most likely have some buy out method if you chould need an MPEG4 reciever.

Since I live in an area that won't get local HD for some time (DMA=156), I will continue to be able to record HD (DirecTV and OTA) for a long time.

[majones]

I agree about Option #4 not being quite right.

In my market I get all the digital locals over the air, and the HR10-250 integrates them into the guide and records them just like satellite channels. With the addition of the HD channels from DTV (especially ESPN HD), I'm a very happy man.

[HomieG]

Are the PQ issues you're referring to with DTV specific to HDTVs? I've always thought our SD PQ on DTV has been much better than digital cable SD at friends' houses.

When watching D* SD on our HDTV the picture quality sucked. When watching SD on our SDTV, it was acceptable.

Before we shut off DirecTV, we did compare PQ from them vs. Comcast digital cable on the same TV, even HBO. In all cases, the Comcast PQ was better in SD, significantly better.

Again, this may vary from area to area, depending on the state of the local cable company.

[Carfan]

I year ago February, I had to make the same type decision. In my case the HD installation was not working out, so I went Comcast.

Excellent picture quality, lousy DVR. Functional to be sure, but no TiVo.

I am awaiting the TiVo upgrade to to Moto box, or I will go Series 3, but unlikely to go back to D**

[hijammer]

I have to argue about your #4 conclusion. This would only be true is you plan to get your local HD from DirecTV. I don't know where Holt is in relation to larger cities, so check www.antennaweb.org for the possibility of getting HD via OTA antenna. The HR10-250 which is TiVo based will continue to record OTA for some time. And, I believe that the DirecTV HD channels will remain MPEG2 for quite a while as well. Also, DirecTV will most likely have some buy out method if you chould need an MPEG4 reciever.

Since I live in an area that won't get local HD for some time (DMA=156), I will continue to be able to record HD (DirecTV and OTA) for a long time.

I is my understanding that Direct TV is planing on moving all of their HD channels to Mpeg 4. It seams a like a large investment 300-500 dollars to only be able to record the OTA in HD vs 100 dollars to record their standard definition.

I just hate this argument that the HR10-250 won't be useless after the switch because you will still be able to record OTA and SD D*. I like someone who got their thumb cut off saying hey I can still use my hand.

[TyroneShoes]

...

Ditch DTV, switch back to Comcast which will soon have Tivo software
Ditch DTV, switch back to Comcast, wait for a Series 3 Tivo
Ditch Tivo, switch to a (I assume) inferior UI on the new DTV HD DVR (HR-20)
Buy a HR-10 Tivo, keep DTV but it will be crippled and not be able to record high def. locals in the future
Keep my current DTivo, keep DTV, be stuck with standard def. on my shiny new HDTV
...
The wild cards here are:

1. OTA reception--whether or not you can get this will drive your decision
2. What programming you watch--much of it is still not in HD. If you watch nothing but Beth Ostrosky on G4, HD hasn't really happened yet. If you watch a lot of prime time, major sports, movies, etc., that ship sailed some time ago.

You have to really look hard at exactly what is out there and available to you vs. what you prefer, to make an informed decision. I bought and beefed up 2 HR10s, and hunkered down waiting for the landscape to evolve me into obsolescence (hopefully 3 years from now when my HDDs start to die and I have got my money's worth out of them), but what I do or any other poster did is not that relevant to your personal situation.

[TyroneShoes]

...I like someone who got their thumb cut off saying hey I can still use my hand.
Actually, for those who get 95% of their programming OTA, and the other 5% from channels that will be M2 for many years, its like saying somebody else got their thumb cut off, but my hand still works perfectly. Didn't feel a thing.

[fastep]

My switch to comcast was for better pq and a faster dvr. I have been extremely happy with the switch back. I use the moto 6412 III and the sony hd dvr. Both perform as reliable and much faster than the hr10. The improved pq was not that noticable on my old 36" jvc tv but VERY noticable on my mits 73 HDTV (D* was not even close to comcast pq).

Comcast has come a long way since they were strictly analog. Unfortunately, some cable areas are still only analog but that should change. Always call and verify before you switch. I actually kept both services active for a couple of weeks just for comparison.

Good luck with your quest.

[fastep]

I is my understanding that Direct TV is planing on moving all of their HD channels to Mpeg 4. It seams a like a large investment 300-500 dollars to only be able to record the OTA in HD vs 100 dollars to record their standard definition.

I just hate this argument that the HR10-250 won't be useless after the switch because you will still be able to record OTA and SD D*. I like someone who got their thumb cut off saying hey I can still use my hand.

I agree. I spent big money on OTA antennas and my reception was very unreliable. I always missed partial or complete hd recordings with the hr10 during bad weather or windy conditions (and I'm right outside of dc and baltimore).

My opinion is if you don't have to rely on HD OTA - don't. You'll be much happier in the end (even if you have to pay). If it's the only choice then it's better than nothing I guess.

[DevilishTX]

Just as an aside:

Again, this may vary from area to area, depending on the state of the local cable company.

That's a very important point these days. I have found that it is somewhat incorrect to make the old blanket statement that cable is bad.

For example, where my brother lives, cable is only so-so.

Where I am, the cable company (Comcast) has put in all new infrastructure, and the PQ is outstanding on both SD and HD channels.

I have not made the switch due to my investment in D* hardware, but that may be changing soon.

I have a new R15 (in addition to my HD Dtivo) and it is HORRIBLE. Heck, it worse than the cable box DVR I've played with. It is just so counter-intuitive.

If the new HD DVR from D* operates the same way, I will probably make the change.

[TyroneShoes]

...My opinion is if you don't have to rely on HD OTA - don't. You'll be much happier in the end (even if you have to pay). If it's the only choice then it's better than nothing I guess.
While that could be a very valid opinion, it is based on your experience, which was apparently not a good one. For those who are able to get OTA working without a lot of problems, the opposite opinion, which would be "if you have to rely on DTV for local HD - don't" would probably also be a very valid opinion, especially since UPN, WB, CW, MNTV, and PBS don't fit into their plans (although HD-lite down-rez and added compression artifacts do).

[andbye]

YMMV Region may be the most significant consideration. PQ varies greatly between various regions and cable companies. Over the air reception varies greatly between regions, networks and OTA antennas. Some sports fans count heavily on NFL Sunday Ticket, Superfan, and Espn HD and TNT HD
. Also there are many variations in equipment investment. Due to credits, discounts and other freebie deals. many have virtually no significant amount tied up in hardware.
If D* retention will give you an HD Tivo DVR; you might want to hang in for the foreseeable future -- especially if the 6.3 softfware upgrade is coming out soon.

[DevilishTX]

While that could be a very valid opinion, it is based on your experience, which was apparently not a good one. For those who are able to get OTA working without a lot of problems, the opposite opinion, which would be "if you have to rely on DTV for local HD - don't" would probably also be a very valid opinion, especially since UPN, WB, CW, MNTV, and PBS don't fit into their plans (although HD-lite down-rez and added compression artifacts do).


Excellent point TS.

I get all my locals OTA in perfect HD. Their (locals in HD) pictures are the best of any on my system. What's nice is I even get WB (or whatever it's called now) and some other true locals that broadcast HD.

The really cool thing is all the sub channels I get. One of local non-network has 4 subs that run neat things (to me).

One of the best features of my OTA is the two subs channels that have the live weather radar.

[Runch Machine]

Likewise, nothing beats my local over the air reception. No matter how hard it rains or snows I never lose the over the air local channels. I have a Channel Master 4221 in my garage attic and that's all it takes to get perfect reception.

[vertigo235]

I kinda wish I had Comcast now, because TW is not looking like a good option around here.

[tbb1226]

I is my understanding that Direct TV is planing on moving all of their HD channels to Mpeg 4.I'm not so sure about that. At least, I've seen no such plans made public. I'm gambling that there will be significant MPEG2 HD content on DirecTV at least as long as I have my current HD TiVo in service.

I just hate this argument that the HR10-250 won't be useless after the switch because you will still be able to record OTA and SD D*. I like someone who got their thumb cut off saying hey I can still use my hand.I just hate this argument that, because a new technology is introduced, every piece of equipment that doesn't contain that technology is automatically "obsolete" and "useless." If that were true, everything everybody owns and uses every day ought to be discarded.

Even in your highly unlikely Doomsday scenario, where OTA HD and satellite SD is all I can record or watch with the HD TiVo, over 90% of my Season Passes and wish lists would still be covered, so I call it money well spent. And my investment in the HD TiVo was significantly higher than your estimate.