are all DTV channels being switched over to MPEG4? (or is it just the HD channels?)

[Leila]

are all DTV channels being switched over to MPEG4? (or is it just the HD channels?)

The SD channels played from the HD DirecTivo(or SD DirecTivo) look awful
on a large front projection TV. The HD channels look great, even when
I zoom them to over 120-inch.

[vertigo235]

Just HD, but that also could mean more bandwidth for MPEG2 once they move the existing HD to Mpeg 4

[newsposter]

I will take this thread opportunity and remind people that this is one reason that people who get OTA with their HDtivo shouldn't be worried about having a obsolete unit. You will still be able to record your OTA and SD DTV for a very very long time on this unit.

So when you hear others say the sky is falling and this unit is obsolete, think about this option.

I only get SHO/HBO in HD now and if i lose that, hey that's life. When there is enough stuff nationally in mpeg4 with the new unit, i may fork out the dough for it. But no way will i get rid of my hdtivos

[jkast]

Actually, I don't know if there is a schedule to move any particular channels to MPEG4. Has anyone seen an announcement to this effect. And I think the mpeg2 channels are there for some time. The issue is that NEW channels need bandwidth, and that bandwidth is available on the KU band with MPEG4 compression. So all the new HD locals will go there.

But I am NOT aware that any current HD channels are slated to move anytime soon.

Now, eventually (years away) the older satellites will fail and the channels will move...

[ebonovic]

Actually... The Initial announcement regarding MPEG-4 stated that all HD based channels will be converted to MPEG4...

There has been no timetable announced though.

[MrBigglesworth]

I will take this thread opportunity and remind people that this is one reason that people who get OTA with their HDtivo shouldn't be worried about having a obsolete unit. You will still be able to record your OTA and SD DTV for a very very long time on this unit.

Are we SURE about this though?

I know that local OTAs are MPEG-2, what my question is with is when the new MPEG-4 hardware comes out. Time and time again I hear mention that DTV will "swap" out current HD Tivos for the new MPEG-4 unit.

I would much rather move my current hardware to secondary TV, and them have a new MPEG-4 box shipped to me outright.

Will they do it this way, or will they insist on the swap? I own my current MPEG-2 unit, since Oct of 2004, and do not want to give it up!

[Fluffybear]

As DirecTV's fleet gets older and satellites are replaced there is the possibility that DirecTV may convert everything to MPEG4 but given the average life of satellite is around 20 years then this probably will not become an issue for at least 7 to 10 years.

DirecTV has a big investment in all those satellites and the last thing they are gonna do is deactivate them before they have to.

[HomieG]

As DirecTV's fleet gets older and satellites are replaced there is the possibility that DirecTV may convert everything to MPEG4 but given the average life of satellite is around 20 years then this probably will not become an issue for at least 7 to 10 years.

DirecTV has a big investment in all those satellites and the last thing they are gonna do is deactivate them before they have to.

I'm not certain, but I don't think the current satellites care whether they are receiving/transmitting MPEG2 or MPEG4.

[newsposter]

Are we SURE about this though?

I know that local OTAs are MPEG-2, what my question is with is when the new MPEG-4 hardware comes out. Time and time again I hear mention that DTV will "swap" out current HD Tivos for the new MPEG-4 unit.

I would much rather move my current hardware to secondary TV, and them have a new MPEG-4 box shipped to me outright.

Will they do it this way, or will they insist on the swap? I own my current MPEG-2 unit, since Oct of 2004, and do not want to give it up!

Forcing people to give up $1000 HDtivos will not foster goodwill. I dont think it will ever be done. You may get zero HD thru DTV thru it, but why in the world would they alienate people who want OTA and SD, especially when they have paid such a price up front and legally own the box? Offer them a one time deal....swap for cheap..if you refuse, make them pay full price for mpeg4dvr. I think that's very fair.

And SD DTV will be mpeg 2 for years. They literally would have to change out every single box. Wont happen.

[Fluffybear]

I'm not certain, but I don't think the current satellites care whether they are receiving/transmitting MPEG2 or MPEG4.

I am not an expert in this area but I know I have seen quite a posts regarding this issue and usually tends to favor that the current satellites are not capable. It might explain why DirecTV had to wait for the next generation satellites before going to MPEG4 streams rather then just convert an existing satellite.

[TyroneShoes]

I'm not certain, but I don't think the current satellites care whether they are receiving/transmitting MPEG2 or MPEG4.
Well, they would have to be sentient to actually care.

The MPEG-4 conversion is really a double conversion--converting from M2 to M4 encoding, and converting from Ku to Ka transmission. So far, DTV has married the M4 conversion to the Spaceway sats, which are expected to primarily be mapped for Ka frequencies.

But there is no reason that DTV could not either begin coding as M4 on the existing Ku sats tomorrow, or continue to code certain channels as M2 on the Spaceway sats long after the current DBS sats begin to incline out of stable orbit. I think it makes sense to keep M2 on the current sats only, and do M4 on the new sats only, but they are certainly not painted into any corners, and options are open.

Modern sats are typically capable of both or either Ku and/or Ka, remappable by remote telemetry, so they could move totally to the new sats and maintain both Ku and Ka from those sats for some time, if it seems that rolling out the new dishes/STBs takes longer than they expect. And, they could provide M2 service from those sats indefinitely, in case swapping out all STBs becomes a long process. I think DTV would like to have every active STB be a hybrid M2/M4 box or a M4-only box before they sunset M2.

Bottom line, M4 or M2 can be done from either the new or the old sats, and Ka/Ku can be done from the new sats, while the current "old" sats are limited to Ku. So, they can stop M2 pretty much at their discretion, regardless of what sats are up there, and they can stop Ku as soon as they have virtually all STBs/dishes replaced.

[HomieG]

Well, they would have to be sentient to actually care.


I had to look up the definition of sentient ;)

Tyrone, thanks for the great explanation about the M2/M4 issues.

[TyroneShoes]

Homie, you must be one of the rare posters on this forum that didn't watch a lot of Star Trek :D

[HiDefGator]

I think some of you are kidding yourselves. As one of those people that paid $2000 for the 2 HR10-250's I have, I will never be happy only being able to record OTA and SD with it. When I can't get even a single HD channel being offered by DTV I will be selling it on ebay and getting a new DVR that can record ALL the HD offered.

[djb61230]

Homie, you must be one of the rare posters on this forum that didn't watch a lot of Star Trek :D

My favorite: Ode to Spot (http://www.why-not.com/cats/data.htm)

[SpankyInChicago]

I think somewhere down the line. Maybe 2010, maybe 2012, all of the content will switch over to MPEG4, SD and HD. Mainly it will require all the boxes to be switched out. But, as Tyrone pointed out, the sats are just frequency translators in the sky and don't much care about what they are translating. It is all just bits to the sats. Considering that is the case, it just makes economic sense to use MPEG4 for everything as soon as possible. Support less hardware platforms, offer more content and / or higher bit rates with the same bandwidth, etc.

Plus, more and more content will be broadcast HD in the next 5 years and the amount of available SD will be reduced.

[Hersheytx]

I think some of you are kidding yourselves. As one of those people that paid $2000 for the 2 HR10-250's I have, I will never be happy only being able to record OTA and SD with it. When I can't get even a single HD channel being offered by DTV I will be selling it on ebay and getting a new DVR that can record ALL the HD offered.

I plan to use my HDTIVO to record SD shows. Unless they strip me of my non HD locals (which I am sure they will not), then I will have a TIVO that can record over 250 hours of SD shows. Now that will be great.
Get the new HD DVR and away we go. I may retire my original Sat-T60 (SONY) with all the extra space I have to record. NAHHHH.....alway have need more room!
LOL

[newsposter]

I plan to use my HDTIVO to record SD shows. Unless they strip me of my non HD locals (which I am sure they will not), then I will have a TIVO that can record over 250 hours of SD shows. Now that will be great.
Get the new HD DVR and away we go. I may retire my original Sat-T60 (SONY) with all the extra space I have to record. NAHHHH.....alway have need more room!
LOL

also if you are a tv nut, 2 extra tuners for 5/month is a great deal! Nice to see i'm not the only one that isn't gonna kick their Hdtivo off the roof just because of the mpeg4s. Maybe we are just more flexible or have more room to stack ;)

[TyroneShoes]

I think some of you are kidding yourselves. As one of those people that paid $2000 for the 2 HR10-250's I have, I will never be happy only being able to record OTA and SD with it...
It's a good thing you qualified that with the term "some of you". If you were to think that thinking applies to everyone, maybe it is you that is kidding yourself.

I paid about that price for 2 HR10s plus 2 400 GB second drives and I use all 166 hours of storage exclusively for HD content. I would be perfectly happy to continue like that (OTA + HBOHD + HDPak, which is 100% of what I need) until FX and USA debut new HD MPEG-4 channels on DTV, which looks to be at least a couple years away. IOW, I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it.

I record all SD on an older, 225-hour DTivo. I was thinking the other day what I might do should I ever need to replace that. The two best options for a SD-only recorder ironically turn out to be HD recorders, either an HR10, or an HR20, which for under $300, either of which would have tons of SD storage (and the HR20 could also solve that FX-HD/ USA-HD issue, should it ever arise).

[annenoe]

also if you are a tv nut, 2 extra tuners for 5/month is a great deal! Nice to see i'm not the only one that isn't gonna kick their Hdtivo off the roof just because of the mpeg4s. Maybe we are just more flexible or have more room to stack ;)

That's what we did. We have two satellite tuners in the LR setup (w/ the big HD TV). We have our upgraded Series 2 running thru an old SD tuner which records most of the SD. And we have the HR10-250 for HD and for SD overflow. We are TV nuts so the extra monthly charge is not a big deal and is a hacked way to be able to watch one / record another. We haven't upgraded the HR10-250 but I don't leave HD recordings on it for very long. I have no intention of dumping my HR10-250. Granted, I will be bummed when I lose HBO and Showtime HD to mpeg4, but it's all a matter of priority. Ours is tivo.

[JJ_71]

Going to all mpeg-4 would be a big advantage. One advantage is lots more bandwidth, which should increase the picture quality. A second big reason would be no more duplicating of the locals. If everybody had an mpeg4 receiver all locals could be in HD only, then the reciever could downconvert, if you didn't have and HDTV this would free up alot of bandwith. ESPN and other channels that broadcast both sd and hd could be eliminated to just HD.

JJ

[rminsk]

Going to all mpeg-4 would be a big advantage. One advantage is lots more bandwidth, which should increase the picture quality.Going mpeg-4 does not increase bandwidth. That is a limitation of satellites and the trasmission methods DirecTV uses.

[JJ_71]

You are right mpeg4 wouldn't increase bandwith, but it would decrease the bandwith needed.
If less bandwith is needed you now have extra room for more channels or transmitting the channels with less compression. Also you missed the fact that you wouldn't have to duplicate the locals if all locals are hd, why would you need the sd ones. The sd ones could be downcoverted by the receiver if you didn't have an hdtv.

JJ

[newsposter]

does downconverting mean i'd still get SD locals at the same 16:9 stretch I do now?

currently i record most SD I can OTA since that pic is 100X better than dtvs locals and of course i have the bars but it's well worth it.